Michael Sandel's "The Tyranny of Merit" doesn't say it, but the pandemic has become the ultimate expression of upper-class America's obsession with meritocracy
Our hyperdrive to demonize The Other in terms of education and class is the iceberg into which the Titanic is being steered.
True merit--knowing how to do things, deal with all kinds of people and situations, and the wisdom to know when and when not to do them--is a worthy goal in life. But college degrees and credentials have little to do with that kind of merit, as reflected on our generally piss-poor Governing and Chattering Class.
WOW - could not agree more. Literally the very thing I write about and am passionate about. I am uneducated, but often "fool" people because I carry myself in a way that seems educated. I am autodidactic. Though I am not formally educated, I love to learn. And I use my learning to try to be the best human I can possibly be. It's as simple as treating others with dignity and empathy.
You just can't put it on your resume. But look at colleges and see many are putting their first year students are being taught High School classes in an attempt to bring them up to speed and that's not working either.
Look at DACA the Best of the Best - 6% College Graduation Rate and look at the Billions spent on them in grants in attempt to make a point which alludes me.
Well, you CAN put it on your resume... in the positions you have held and more importantly -the responsibilities you have managed.
It's all in presenting the self-taught skills and disciplines in a way that showcases "what you can offer" for their investment in you.
FWIW, autodidacts tend to have varied and interesting resumes -to the unhip it may appear scattered. To someone who has a fully functioning brain it appears as "a pile of the things we like in an employee".
Steer clear of jobs where the interviewer says, "Wow, you're all over the place... I see a lot of jumping around." -That's a hallmark sign of someone who stays in their rut and doesn't bother with critical thinking or innovation, or personal growth, or ingenuity.
That means that the person interviewing you is an average dimwit -and if a company has THAT person hiring they're lacking solid leadership. They're into mediocrity.
HR Departments, in my opinion, are very weird places. Back in the dark ages I had interviewed at Little Caesars to fix pizza ovens, something I could have done in my sleep. Interviews went well. Finally there were only 2 of us left under consideration. That's when they handed me a thick psychological evaluation questionnaire. As I'm reading this I'm thinking, "This is so I can fix pizza ovens?" Halfway through I came to this lovely question, "What amount do you think is permissible to steal from your employer? a. $50, b. $500, c. $5,000. No zero though.
I spent the rest of my allotted test taking time drawing a nice big, block capitol, fully shaded FUCK YOUR DIPSHIT JOB on that page. Then I handed it in, smiled politely & told them to have a nice day. Needless to say I didn't get the job.
For some reason it all reminded me of a "test" I had to take in Religion class during my senior year at my Catholic high school. One of the stranger questions said, "When you come home from work and your wife doesn't have your dinner ready do you,
a. to c. some kind of punishment,
d. nothing because you don't care.
I checked d because I couldn't see myself caring. The next day our guidance counselor made me stay after school for a 15 minute lecture about how "I should be very careful who I marry." During his "counseling" all I could think was, "Geez teach, I can't even get a date and you're telling me to worry about who I marry. Are you nuts?"
Actually it turned out he was nuts. About 3 years after I graduated I saw in the local newspaper that our guidance counselor was arrested for arson.
That was about the time I was beginning to realize that the shit coming out of people's mouths doesn't always resemble the shit that's in their heads. And yes, I was a bit slow on the up take.
lovely theory. in the real world, the fact is that credentialed education has been monetized and, in the process, has been deliberately made preëminent whenever and wherever the circumstances favor that-- which means, practically speaking, wherever those with power and influence can make this the de facto course.
of course there are and shall always be autodidacts. I'm an example. I'm also an example of how far short such a status falls in so many realms.
We want a great many professions certified for good reason-- pilots, medical doctors, engineers, people who exercise police authority, chemists and many others are only a few of the many kinds of people who should have to pass certification and obtain standard licenses to practice.
the trends are very emphatically in the direction of greater, not less, certification, or "credentialism" on steroids.
I _am_ formally educated--that, indeed, is how I developed my abiding skepticism of so many credentialed "experts" in many a field of inquiry, of study.
the area of study to which I'm now most devoted and have the longest sustained interest and intellectual investment is one of these which excludes the self-taught. It's for all practical intents and purposes a field of academic study which is in all respects very like a union's "closed-shop" system and it has suffered for this in the insanely insular character of those who are its Mandarins--fools who live in sublime complacency and have at their mercy poor, unsuspecting beginners who, knowing little, trust too much and take for granted what they're told--one of the academic world's greatest and longest-running intellectual frauds upon the trusting student. But it endures because it is so thoroughly and single-mindedly protected by the intitiated.
Unfortunately I have met many “educated” people who stopped learning at 22. I applaud your thirst for knowledge. I would take an autodidact over a college education any day!! Or as my beloved Twain purportedly said, “I never let my education get in the way of my learning”
You and I are in the same boat. I dropped out of college because I was already being presented with job opportunities in my field of study, so I opted out of racking up [more] student loan debt and jettisoned the notion of credentials as the sole path to self-worth and wealth. Although I’m a writer and filmmaker now, I plan to learn more of the skills whose value will likely increase as the American empire continues its toboggan run towards the grave. Things like self-defense, growing food, sewing, repairing electronics, responsible firearm use, etc. I’m not a survivalist, I swear, but I do think it behooves me as a woman to acquire some earthier skills. I also love to learn, and most research says genetic predisposition imbues us with that craving. Here’s to library cards, deep focus, and Google-fu!
My experience at University was largely the teach to test method of indoctrination. True learning is self-motivated inquiry. I applaud lifelong learners, they are the unsung heroes who help to sustain the intellectual and moral fabric of society.
Shades of my favorite autodidact (and iconoclast):
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
I’m not a survivalist either, but I’m going to be using and learning more so called blue collar skill so that I can take better care of my family as things get worse.
I’d love to learn more about your writing and filmmaking. are you writing on substack?
I’m the same and I get crapped on by my over-credentialed family who insist I should’ve gone to college despite me out-earning all of them in a blue collar trade. I notice many college grads love their self-imposed intellectual silos.
I'd hazard a guess that it's not about money and that they think some of your views might be moderated by higher education, and maybe you'd be easier to be around. I'm pretty sure my mother in law would be less of a hippy wackjob if she went to college, for example, provided she studied something real, like biology.
Correct. It was once intended to teach *all views, and then allow the students, via examination with logic and critical thinking (also thin on the College "menu" these days) to determine for themselves *which of the "views" under study had most value to themselves.
The purpose of college, insofar as it still has one, is for personal growth and expansion. Ideally, a well-rounded College education also has nothing *specifically to do with getting a job either, but those days are long gone. There is no longer any such thing as a Wide Ranging College education.
I know a young lady, first in her family to have graduated from College. She was justifiably proud of herself and insisted upon showing me her College grade transcripts. Her Degree was in Microbiology. Her entire curricula was hard sciences, in which she did very well. But, zero literature, zero philosophy, zero Western Civ, zero Eastern Sources, zero Anthropology and the so called "soft" sciences, which teaches one how Microbiology fits *into the world we inhabit, and why.
Sadly, what the young lady had, was a Trade School education in Hard Sciences, at College Degree prices. Neither she, nor any of her classmates, were getting what they were paying for ...... a College Education.
The College Education once focused upon well-rounded discovery of
what *is out there in the world that one might further pursue, potentially as a life calling. It once had less than nothing to do with improving one's propaganda skills, or salesman-like arts of persuasion except in classes like Rhetoric for orators and politicians, which is also no longer part of a Trade School degree posing as a College Education.
Now, a "degree" results from a full four years of doing nothing but "teaching to the test".
College should be about learning to think. Critically. STEM curricula is turning out students with narrowed world views who are more concerned with wealth attainment than attaining a healthy experience of themselves and the world at large.
Agreed. I can't say for certain when it began to change, but when I matriculated in the late 80's it was going on. I've always been anti-establishment/authority, so didn't tow the line of counselors in order to claim a sheepskin with specific classes in a specific order, and instead took those courses that interested me, from philosophy to microbiology.
My late saint of a father, to his great credit, humored me in that regard by paying for most of them, despite having been on the receiving end of much of my rebellious nature during that time.
I enjoy reading much of what you write about your time on P-3s hunting subs from Japan, as my father's time there was contemporaneous, having been a flight engineer on the same birds.
Truly wish he were still around (not only) to ask if he recalls an Irishman meeting your self descriptions on these pages.
It often (not always) can prevent people from holding extreme views. Another example: if you take even the intro macroeconomics course, you're going to be far less likely to subsequently adopt the view that there's some sort of international banking conspiracy, because you understand the basics of how banking works. Fields which seem to churn out marxists are another matter of course.
Not to worry. This world is full of highly educated derelicts. I too pursue post-institutional education endeavors. My hobby. DO NOT go to our higher education system for knowledge: They've forgotten that their job was to INFORM; not persuade. Wrong goal.
That is what I hear, yes. I was lucky enough go to College during the '70s before the entire meaning and structure when to hell converting to an indoctrination center.
Well said but the merits of autodidactism (sp) can be overrated. The rigor needed to be truly educated usually comes with guidance and incentives to bolster that knowledge with adjacent studies that might not seem to be relevant at first glance. I would say in some way we are suffering tyranny of googol autodidacts right now who think they know everything because they can look it up. Their knowledge is superficial at beat. On the other hand, we have real medical experts now who are imposing decisions that have real life and death impacts in economic terms but can’t be bothered to lower themselves to consider such middle brow issues
I am 100% in support of education and applaud those who had the grit to earn one. I too am weary of google readers who see a headline and tell you they “did their research.” I now read research papers regularly for my career, which I am self taught in too. I can tell you that reading research is insanely difficult and even an educated person will find it challenging to understand. Doesn’t mean an education is worthless though! I had amazing mentors and teachers who provided me a private informal “education.” Educated or not, you have to WANT to learn. when you are a learner, then you can understand the subjects and speak to them. A learner (educated or not) is far more trustworthy because they will not just Google read and skim everything. They will actually read research and try to understand it, because they seek knowledge, wisdom, and truth. I think the mentality is the main difference
Precisely SO ! We are all arguing "apples and oranges" ! Not one statement we make will apply to ALL schools, and to ALL students ! It depends upon the school, and it depends upon the student. A student that just sits down with that kind of passive attitude, will not do as well as the student who realizes that it on *us to make our College experience *matter in our lives ! The College has the libraries. The College has the labs. The College has the instructors, and the College once had the exposure to the "free flow of ideas". If one avails themselves of ALL of these things, organizes and steers one's *own experience, College makes up the box of *Tools ! This is the active approach to Education, as opposed to the "o.k. I found the right chair in the correct classroom - make me a genius - *passive approach.
"It's as simple as treating others with dignity and empathy."
Yes, it really is that simple. I know lefties who fall all over themselves talking about how much they CARE, and in the next sentence will make a scathing remark about someone they perceive to be lower on the social status totem pole. My lefty sister simply cannot have a conversation about any political issue without devolving to FUCK YOU! within about 30 seconds. But they CARE...
There is a massive element of mental illness in their thought process. It's one of destruction of anything that counters their view. They are a closed system and have not learned centuries old lessons. Hubris meet Nemesis.
I am highly educated but view most highly educated folks as boring and elitist and I usually don't trust them much. I believe the common person is wiser than most highly educated folks.
I am now visually compromised but fifteen years ago we taught our then commerce student the whys and wherefores of indoor plumbing and I still trust trust him with indoor plumbing. When we moved from Montreal to a more rural environment we needed a plumber with more math and education to fix our external plumbing and needed a real plumber with the education to understand the angles needed for drainage to keep the water out of our basement. Plumbers need math and science in 2021 and that is why our plumbers now require a post secondary education.
In the words of my 18 year old self. Don't trust plumbers over 30.
Education now is a lifelong commitment and America elects lawyers and politicians who think they learned all they needed to learn at 25 and America is headed down the toilet. I am 73 and and worry I will never learn what I need to learn today never mind a decade from now.
The conservative mindset will destroy us all.
I started working on computers 55 years ago and know my education makes me as useless as prehensile tail for our great ape species in keeping up with the technological universe.
I'm willing to bet a loonie against a timbit that you're self employed. I say this b/c my experience w/ corporate hiring for the higher wage jobs have educational requirements at the top of their want ads, and for internal promotions.
I am autistic and was diagnosed as lazy because I could not perform academically and was blessed with a PhD vocabulary and a genius at logic.
I married a very wise and wonderful woman who taught me to love myself. Only in Canada do we bet timbits and loonies so I will raise you a poutine that Joel speaks from truth not manufactured consent.
Fair question. Never been self employed. I work hard and make six figures, live quite comfortably in California. Single income family of five. Not bad for an uneducated goof ball :)
Don’t know what a timbit is but assume you are right about corporate jobs but there is plenty of room for thenuncredentialed at midsize private business. $30 to 100 million to do quite well. In fact quote often they are the backbones of those companies. Having run a few of those I know. They don’t fit in well with the corporate profile but have strong skills. Though believe me they do present a mangement challenge
I manage these companies, usually for Private Equity who acquired them from the Founder and work through the transition. And you are right as the people I describe are often very intelligent and black belt level at their field of expertise but are lacking in other basic skills that would make them valuable at a larger entity. It goes to my point that autodidacts often do not take into account supporting and adjacent knowledge that might not appear to apply to their specialty but is necessary for them to succeed beyond their area of expertise.
Timbits are donut holes. Canada needs about 350,000 new Canadians each and every year for a generation. Because we are a US Colony they dictate how we get immigrants. We will take all the Hondurans, Guatemalan, El Salvadorans and Haitian refugees if we can get them landed in Canada.
Every business and industry where I live has a we are hiring sign out. They are building everywhere and we need workers and their families for our economy that is running according to plan. The only thing that didn't go according to plan is that Covid left us 400,000 people short of our two year target for new Canadians.
Abolish the colleges, I say. Expensive ways of getting a bad education but they are good for maintaining and enhancing unwarranted class divisions. How many well-educated morons and incompetents have I known?
Have you taken a college exam in the field you're studying and passed? Or perhaps quite a few of them given the typical field of study requires many exams. If not, you're probably just deceiving yourself.
Good grief, I know and work with plenty of people that passed their college exams, and are thus credentialed that are truly imbeciles. If you made this statement 30 to 40 years ago it would be accurate, not today.
Bullseye ! Yes. And, even back then, it surprised me to find that less than 2% of College Graduates actually ended up *working in the same field for which they took their major. Simply reflecting the fact that, when you are *not going to a "Trade School" it is the experience of broad-reaching exposure to education that has the value.
As you say, whether or not your (or my) self image is accurate or the product of self-deception probably doesn't matter much. This fear can be excellent motivation keeping us learning and reading on a wide range of topics. I have an engineering degree, but my exposure in school to other topics was minimal. 30 years out of grad school, I still oscillate between feelings of inadequacy due to my utter lack of formal education in regard to art, literature, history, etc. and the belief that, having read widely and continuously on these topics, I may perhaps be drawing even with the more formally educated. In any case, the process is enjoyable. And, if the skills developed help with better navigating personally and professionally and understanding more clearly what is the right thing to do, so much the better. What is the downside?
This reminds me of something I read about Qanon. People with Ph.Ds tend to be the most likely to believe this stuff while right down the line people with less education tend to be more skeptical.
Also, while people with 4 years of college tend to be the most likely to get Covid vaccines, among the least likely are -- guess -- people with Ph.Ds.
Finally, one study demonstrated that when people with different levels of education are presented a problem and produce a wrong answer, Ph.D holders tend by far to be the most resistant to changing their conclusion when presented with proof that they erred.
Well, of course; education equals indoctrination, the more education, the more indoctrination until you actually believe despite all evidence to the contrary that what you do is important...not.
I suspect that most competent plumbers today have a significant amount of post high school training and very few dropped out of high school at 16. Plumbing is not as easy as it looks.
Plumbing is useful work and saves a lot more lives than the medical industrial complex and infinitely more than Wall Street and the legal and accounting rackets, let alone, the War racket.
But what about post-modern critical theory? Sure he may be a competent plumber, but he's still a cultural barbarian. Probably even thinks there are only two genders because he fits male to female couplings.
You do make a wonderful point that I suspect escapes the notice of those unacquainted with real labor (and the truth is, very few of us labor for a living). Unlike the Marxist conceits taught in universities, labor has great variability - particularly in terms of skilled labor.
Even Lasch, being a former leftie, is overly fond of the labor theory of value. LTV is a powerful rhetorical device; sadly, it is useless as an analytical tool.
"[C]ollege degrees and credentials have little to do with that kind of merit [knowledge, wisdom, etc.]"
But it's worse than that. "Education and class" is a proxy for intelligence among the elite ... but nearly *all* in our society look down, morally, on those of low (analytical, social, etc.) intelligence.
Intelligence, like many other human characteristics, is largely immutable. Our continuing to treat it as a *moral* attribute, as some kind of "bad choice" that can be truly be overcome by effort -- now THAT'S a problem.
I'd say the educational level of the Taliban, who kicked our asses, is considerably below that of the best and brightest of the US elite, whether political, military or those in the surveillance or weapons industries, and they did it at a fraction of the cost, though with admittedly far smaller profits for the select few on our side.
As a Taliban official told an American one, "You had all the clocks, we had all the time."
No kidding. It perfectly captured both the reality of the war and our naive belief that technology is the answer to all things. Maybe 10 years ago, I saw a magazine, maybe Popular Mechanics, that said we had invented a new weapon, one that could shoot shoot around corners in close combat, that would win the war.
The fact is, we chose a war we couldn't win, one against an indigenous population, where we couldn't readily identify the enemy, instead of one we couldn't lose; killing bin Laden, crippling AQ and leaving. From Oct. 7, 2001, to the end of that year, when bin Laden was already gone, we had 12 deaths. Had we gone after him in Tora Bora, our deaths would likely have been no more than 100, but we let him go. While I can't prove it, I wouldn't be surprised Bush did it on purpose just to have a bogeyman. In any event, everyone who died after early 2002 at the latest, died a pointless death, and no one will ever be held accountable.
GREAT comment ! Yes. As a bombardier during Vietnam, I had to be "checked out" on all the "spiffy" new weapons. We had, at that time, a rocket that may have been the inspiration for the weapons to which you refer with the ability to go around corners. No need to remind *you that "Charlie" lived and based themselves out of incredibly sophisticated tunnel systems, at least in the South. The military created us a rocket that, no kidding, could fly into caves (in the rare cases that caves actually formed the entrance into the tunnels.) The rockets could follow the contours of the tunnel curvature, without ever hitting the walls on either side, or the ceilings and floors above and below. The rockets would proceed into the tunnels until they detected concentrations of human urine that indicated enemy bathrooms (the Head), at which point they would explode.
SO, the enemy, rather than spending Pentagon style money to *combat these highly sophisticated weapons, simply started pissing into buckets,
and hanging the buckets in the trees *outside the entrance to their cave compounds !
So, we had *both the technology to *build such weapons, and the abject ignorance to use such weapons in THAT kind of an application ! ;-D
I was dumb enough to have served there, so for the last nearly 20 years I was simply waiting for what I knew was going to happen. Somehow, our glorious elites managed a bigger cluster fuck than they achieved in what Kenny Rogers sang about in "that old crazy Asian war."
You were not dumb. Many people were drafted or believed the govt. Anti-War protest were because of the draft, not because of principles. College exempted.
No, I was dumb, but I took my stupidity and learned my lesson, so not all was lost. As for the anti war protests being only anti draft and not principled, you're simply wrong. Making a flat statement like that is just an effort to deny the rightness of the anti war crowd, just as we were about these last 20 years, where thousands died and trillions were borrowed and spent on wars not in the national interest and foisted on us largely by people who, if they were old enough, dodged the draft for a war, Vietnam, that they supported. Of course, some of them, as Dick Cheney said, had other priorities, those priorities being themselves, as per usual for narcissists.
Though there was much intellectualizing I knew many whose inspiration came from the looming draft. Would like to think it was otherwise, but why no major protests against war since? There weren't but half a dozen of us outside the gates of CENTCOM in 2001. My husband, a drafted member of UBC (who has died from AO) was asked by a professor why he was too stupid to go to college and avoid it? I think a lot who who used deferments later said they were principled. Of course there is always Senator Blumenthal to confuse things by saying he was in country when he was not.
The VC and the NVA did not lose all the battles/firefights; most, but not all. It was typical practice to report enemy losses as always greater than any we suffered. The 173rd Airborne got their asses thoroughly chewed up early in the war and simply covered it up by lying even more than usual about the number they killed. Besides, a metric that considers deaths as significant in such wars is irrelevant, as it presumes that their capacity to accept deaths, in their own country, is not greater than a force fighting 8,000 miles from their nation. They live there; we do not, eventually that is the deciding factor, lacking a government we support that has little support among the populace, as was the case in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Never believe anything you hear from the military, never. They know full well that a man dressed in a uniform, covered in pretty colored ribbons, most of which are glorified Boy Scout badges, and with stars on his shoulders, is given nearly free rein to tell one whopper after another.
I'd hope the latest fiasco in Afghanistan, one which exposed nearly 20 years of utter BS, should break our habit of believing these professional liars.
When your "measure" for how well the war is going is body count, you KNOW you did not go into Vietnam with any *actual goal. You cannot measure your success relative to a goal, when there IS no goal (that you can reveal to the public).
I just read as the Russian revolution was firing up the Tsar was worried about the quality of epaulettes. Don't you think all governments do this in wars? Give free reign to the fellows with the best outfit?
I share that last sentiment, but fear it wont happen. Look at the extraordinary efforts underway to prop up these fuck ups, putting them on TV as experts. Whether it's disgraced former generals or neocons, we were treated to an orgy of their "expert analysis" recently. Maybe it's a last gasp of a dying elite sort of thing, but these monsters have a way of hanging on.
I'm quite certain your first paragraph is correct; the addiction to no cost militarism of putting all the real cost on a small segment of the society and their families, while the rest of us go shopping with our tax cuts, seems to be a winning formula for endless war, even as that policy is equally effective at destroying this nation from within by pursuing policies that promote the empire as it neglects the nation.
Right now, the world is down to two significant nations; us and the PRC, and of the two, theirs has by far the more clear thinking and long term planning leadership, while we continue seeing the world as one we can somehow control with a military that has won but one war since WWII, that being Gulf War I where we faced a third rate military, ensconced in static positions in open desert, with no air cover, just waiting to be annihilated. Remarkably, professional military men thought that this had been proof that we had solved the mystery of war.
Now that is a scary fucking thought, one that maybe combat virgin politicians should feel, but not professional military men.
If you look at a globe of the world, two things stand out immediately; the Eurasian continent, home of most of the world's largest economies, is the dominant landmass, and is actually connected to resource rich Africa, while the American continents are basically remote and isolated. These geographical facts, with the PRC on the important land mass and using that as the underpinning of their BRI, and the US on the least important one and foolishly playing its military game of garrisoning the world and trying to counter the PRC with it, while the PRC leaders quietly go about their economic expansion both at home and abroad, make the outcome all but certain; a bipolar world, if we can accept it, but one where the Chinese are first among equals.
I don't see how it ends any other way, unless we start a war with them out of pique.
At some point, I'd like to have it dawn on our elites, that while the PRC economic growth was likely to happen anyway, that their short term policy of opening up trade with the PRC, of granting them PNTR, all to really just boost short term profits for US based multinationals, but in the name of greater friendship between us and the PRC, was largely responsible for this passing of the torch. How I'd love to see someone from our media pose this question to our elites, but they'd probably think it would be rude to do so, and besides, they'd then lose all access to all the serious people in D.C.
"Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven't got: a diploma." Professor to the Scarecrow, from the "Wizard of Oz" (1939)
For a brief period I worked as a term paper ghost writer through a “broker.” You wouldn’t believe how many college students a) use this service and b) can barely read and write. It was…deeply depressing.
Depressing as well as fully *appalling ! To think that someone, either the students or the parents, are paying TOP DOLLAR to "educate" people who cannot locate Canada on an unmarked map of North American following
"graduation" is simply harrowing. These are our leaders of tomorrow !
But cheer up, even the Ivies are "dumping" the requirement for SATs before college entry. Now, your smart kids lose out waiting on the dummies, and the overall level of education drops for the *same reason !
And keeps loan servicers flush w $$$$$ which in turn lobbies the gov to put more money into student loan programs which enables universities to hike tuition which requires borrowing more $$$
Matt, it's much more complex. Everything you address is a symptom, not a root cause.
The abject failure of college education arises out of a misunderstanding of what a college degree means and who needs them. In a factory of 1,000 workers, there are probably 15 people whose college education has some value. That's my upper-limit estimate. We observed that these people made more money than those without college degrees, and decided that if everybody just got college degrees then everyone would make more money. That's not the way it works. You first need to create positions requiring college degrees, not throw college degrees at positions. So, everyone was told "Go to college." And loaned the money to do so, without ever examining whether the degree had any commercial value, or even if the individual should go to college at all.
People were told to "follow your dreams," and no worse advice was ever given. "I want to be a marine biologist!" sounds good. What are your realistic prospects of getting a job in the field? Close to zero. A degree in accounting comes with a job at the end. Invented disciplines such as intersectional geriatric Innuit and learning-disabled pregnant East Absurdians get loans. The politicians boast about helping everybody get college degrees and, and when the whole thing blows up, Ronald Reagan gets blamed. Or curmudgeonly old white men. Or anybody but the public school teachers and the parents who failed to teach their children financial literacy, and the numbskull government clerks look great while chaining our children to a lifetime of debt.
We don't need a lot of college graduates. I have a bachelors in Spanish and Music, a Masters in high-energy laser physics, and a medical degree from a German University. My brother in law is an elevator mechanic. His net worth is many times mine. I should have skipped college and become a plumber.
Physical therapists decided that they would make more money if they got Doctorates. So, the entry-level degree is a doctorate. That does nothing to increase the need for physical therapists nor the money to pay for their services. Pharmacists followed suit. The entry-level degree is a PharmD. That creates no new money to pay for their services, just shoved more money into colleges' pockets.
We graduate people with estimable degrees in aromatherapy or gender studies and when they are lucky they get promoted to barista five years after graduation. Life is about choices, informed choices, and parents, teachers and federal loan officers hide information from those seeking degrees. When they wake up to reality, few of them recognize the moral hazard to which they had succumbed. Instead, they blame baby boomers (I'm one) and uneducated stupid right wing bigots, society, and look everywhere but a mirror. I've been told on-line multiple times I'm useless and should die to get out of the way of the deserving.
I've devoted the last 20 years of my life to working with entrepreneurs, coaching them through how to turn their life experiences into jobs they own. Regardless of race, creed, sex, gender identity or anything else, those that put in the work reap the rewards. The last time I was charged out to a client as a management consultant I was billed at $500/hour. I gave that up to help those who had been crucified on the cross of "progressivism." Millenials assume I am uneducated because I extoll the virtues of entrepreneurism. That means I'm white, male, a racist, a sexist, an homophobe, hate all foreigners, and the only reasons that I fail to agree with every jot and tittle of one of these Masters of the Universe's wise pronouncements about his or her moral superiority are ignorance, stupidity or malice. I posted widely on the coronavirus in January 2020 as soon as I learned that Taiwan had closed its borders. The WHO was venerated, and I was banned from many platforms for pointing out that this is an extraordinarily contagious common cold virus. We needed to focus all protection efforts on the most vulnerable: the elderly and obese, and leave everyone else alone until we had more information. I'm still shunned for advising people not to get a vaccination until they have talked to their family physician if they are under 20, or pregnant, or immune-compromised, or have an autoimmune disease. None of these people should be vaccinated by anyone other than a physician. I am fully vaccinated, had breakthrough COVID, and two hospital stays exposed me to how much Kool Aid nurses have downed.
COVID19 is the gift that can't stop giving. Remember bending the curve in two weeks? Now a college in Connecticut has 100% of staff and students vaccinated and mandates they wear masks outdoors, where it is almost impossible to get infected. There is no end to the lockdown, and that's exactly what the authoritarians want.
The best quip I ever heard was the one about Diogenes and Alexander the Great.
Diogenes chose to live the life of a dog but was seen to be the happiest, funniest and wisest man on Earth. He didn't need to appear on Jeopardy to prove his smartness. He spoke truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Alexander said to Diogenes if he were not Alexander the Great he would choose to be Diogenes.
Diogenes retorted if he were not Diogenes he would choose to be Diogenes.
That joke is as funny and painful as it was 2500 years ago.
I seem to recall a conversation reported by a contemporary of Alexander asking if there was anything he could do for Diogenes, who answered, 'Yes, you can stand aside, you're blocking my sun.'
Have you heard of YouTube? I'm serious. I'm a licensed plumbing/heating contractor (been outta the game for decades, but still am 'Handy Man With Tools Of Steel!') and I'm telling you that a faucet replacement looks a L O T harder to do than it is. Hit me back if you want YT links, or guidance on to how to do it.
Okay so this is the story - I bought my condo in Dec2019 - then got COVID in Jan.
Last year when I couldn’t get a plumber I decided to try it myself! Here’s what happened: when this building was renovated whoever installed faucet decided to get a 4hole w no deck plate (soap dispenser side spray handle and faucet) only black or other dark finish will match. The cabinets are low so the spout/overall height cannot be more than 11 13/16 inches. The holes were cut so far apart that a standard deck plate won’t fit which means I have to get plugs for at least 2 (ugly) because the same set up for 4 (soap spray etc) is too hard to find I can get the same one (that I hate anyway) or I could cut and spray paint a piece of PVC big enough to work as a deck plate I don’t have the tools to do that. The original faucet is blocked (not the line) from 15yrs of hard water through a cheap faucet. Except for that All of my water pressure is fine. So you’re right, the install would prob be easier than finding the right faucet. The 3 i managed to find can be installed without a deck plate but I finally accept the fact that I will have to cap at least one hole if I want a decent faucet but. Due to supply chain issues 2 of the 3 are not available until early 2022. I could just live with it until I save enough $ to re-do the whole kitchen and in the meantime just keep using the side spray instead of the faucet. The bathtub diverter is a whole other issue and I’m not going to attempt that.
My wife has a PhD and married someone who failed every grade till he was too old for high school. I am 73 and maybe next year I will learn to tie my shoes.
Listen - I wish I was a plumber! I’ve been trying to get one to my house for 8 months to replace a kitchen faucet and a diverter in my bathtub. I’m told these are both small jobs and apparently so small that licensed plumbers are too busy to take. One told me he can get to it in January! I’m seriously considering trade school!!!
First of all, you DO NOT need a licensed plumber to do this job. It's not a new/inspected work, it's REPAIR. Look for 'Handyman' in Kijiji. Licensed Plumbers don't like 'jobbing' (i.e. repairs) they want to do rennovations or new builds.
Contacted multiple handymen on thumbtack and task rabbit. That’s where I got the above mentioned solutions from. They told me to get the faucet and they would do the job (see above)
PS - i averaged 57hrs/week at work last month. Not a lot of energy left for this stuff. Another reason to hire someone.
Indeed, that is precisely how I learned quantum mechanics. It did take a couple of years. I got to watch the lectures of the incomparable Richard Feynman, although only in B&W, and he died in 1988.
Sure - the woman who cant master measure twice cut once? Who has to use command strips to hang pictures because hammering always results in bodily injury and/or property damage? I would make a reservation for the Servicepro guys to fix the water damage. And would be more successful performing brain surgery! 😄
College should never have been marketed as the ticket to a better income - that's the entire failure right there. We've been pushed into a belief in material upward mobility and you're a fool if you don't join that rat race. Feminism did a similar thing to women - they only know their value by their paycheck; what an obscenely cruel joke.
The whole post-WWII GI Bill - send all the boys to college - was *intended* to keep another depression, and Bonus Army march, at bay. The presumption was the post-war economy couldn't gainfully employ all of them at once. So we took this one-time fluke and turned it into a fundamental socio-economic principle.
I NEVER looked at a degree as a ticket to a good job. I was told 'You go to university for an education and then community college for a job'. That's what I taught my kids. The eldest majored in Film/Drama and the next youngest majored in Fine Art.
The eldest became a Capt in the the USMC, and the younger one now runs the building department for a township.
Isn't that cute, believing that bit of propaganda. The U.S. created the post-war economic order (to go along with the Cold War and containment). No one forced us to do anything.
Computers are a significant technology, but they don't define capitalism and international trade. The keystones were all put in place when U.S. Steel was a far bigger corporation than IBM, and GM was a giant when the founders of Google had yet to be born.
I agree. The only "jobs" many college grads get is going to grad school and teaching the next generation of students the same thing so they can go to grad school and teach the same thing. Lather rinse repeat.
I went to an mining engineering school and the head of our department gave us some sage advice just before graduation. We all thought we were hot shit because we had a bachelor's degree and were destined to be great. He told us we were no where near being an engineer. What they had taught us was a way to think, approach a problem logically and figure out a solution. Talk to the miners. Talk to the people who actually know what they are doing and work that into the solution. Just because it works on paper doesn't mean it will work in the field. He said it would take years for us to gain enough real world knowledge to get to be a true engineer. If you truly want to succeed you have to listen and learn and if you do have a new idea be able to explain it to the people actually doing the work in a way that they see what it is you have in mind.
Sage advice.
I left the mining industry after a few years because engineering wasn't for me. But, I have taken that advice everywhere I went.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't engineers have to sit for an exam well after grad to get the title 'Professional Engineer'? What I mean is that my experience w/ engineers, as limited as it is has been that it's a field where mentorship is prevalent.
Everyone needs a baseline level of literacy and math skills up to an alegbra level. Other than that, schools are mainly there for kid-herding, which IS still an important societal function.
If someone is highly conversant in literature or history or high level math, it is b/c they were lucky enough to be born with a brain attuned to and attracted to such things from a young age.
Free baby sitting with indoctrination in the world view of the ruling classes thrown in with the baby sitting. The teachers don't even know they're doing it because it was done to them and seems normal...not.
I wouldn’t go with the indoctrination angle in schools that aren’t in deep blue areas. Teachers unions are godawful and useless, but plenty of teachers see through the bs.
Robert and Stxbuck - Seriously? Why not quit when you're ahead? You applaud plumbers and think college degrees are next to worthless and tout your own college credentials (while also pretending you don't value them) but then have to stoop to bashing teachers and their unions?
As a teacher, I can attest that teachers unions are 99% useless. Do they serve a local function if a teacher gets unfairly caught up in some kind of brouhaha with parents or students-yes, but that’s about it. They mostly exist to protect bad teachers who have been in the system forever-at the expense of younger teachers who aren’t burnt out wastoids, promote more and more useless high dollar admin positions, and serve as a cheering section for whatever idiocy the left wing of the D party trots out.
I sort of disagree. They seem to be incredibly useful when it comes to pushing through an political agenda. Sorry but I think Randi weingarten has been one of the biggest problems with public education for what 2 decades??
I often wonder living 5 hours drive North of Boston why nobody knows we are here. We are a secular humanist liberal democracy and even Covid has not affected our optimism or devastated our economy. In the midst of a Canadian election we are asking where are we going to get the needed millions of workers we need in addition to those we are educating while the rest of Canada worries about their economic future.
We watch and enjoy our athletes and entertainers but we respect and listen to our philosophers and wise men and women.
There is a big difference between neoliberalism and liberal democracy. Here in Quebec we have learned that we are management and draw up the plans for our future. We lived frugally and relied on others for support while we educated our young people to thrive during and after this technological revolution. In Quebec the words God bless Quebec are blasphemy and magic does not exist.
I pretty much read your entire thread, and ignored (except for one flame I sent) the trolls.
What a perfect description of Quebec, warts and all.
My own story: born and bred Irish Catholic Bronx kid who went from the seminary to the NYPD. I managed to work that underpaid job b/c I had a Plumbing/Heating license and did >>$$ than my precinct commander.
In 85 went on a ski holiday for a week of drunken debauchery in the Laurentians (Gray Rocks) w/ about 50 other cops from the combined Anti Crime (plainclothes) units from the Bx and Queens. Was totally smoked.
Moved to Canada a year later and have never looked back.
How you've described Quebec is pretty much in line w/my own take. This past summer I spent almost 2 weeks toodling around the Gaspe. It was a total blast despite my piss poor French.
I fucking LOVED all 3 debates (the translations on the first one really sucked). The way I see it, the (deserved) rage of the 90's separatist movement has matured to a 'don't fuck w/me' attitude. Since then it has mellowed into a sense of confidence and openness that is just so...so damn wonderful.
Your writing is so crisp and well thought out. I'm willing to put a loonie against a timbit that you're just a dime a dozen where you live though. I base that on my just general bullshitting w/people at bars and restaurants during my Gaspe holiday. Fantastic well rounded conversations Each And Every Time.
My wife is an Ontario girl now (my ski instructor 'Liddle Maple Leaf' from the 80's died in '01) and had never vacayed in Quebec. She too came away w/ such admiration and respect for Quebec that it's telling.
I grew up in Montreal in aspiring to middle class in an English speaking community. My Mother was born at the Royal Vic and my great grandparents are buried in Montreal but there was no way we could ever become either English speaking bourgois or French Speaking bourgois. We weren't welcome at Grey Rocks, Orford, Stowe , or Jay Peak. We met a new neighbour this week who grew up on Long Island and found Quebec City and Quebec was where she belonged.
Canadian polymath, historian and philosopher John Ralston Saul told us in 1993 that Cynicism is the greatest threat to democracy. It is little wonder that our right of center economist Premier is about the most trusted politician on the planet.
This 60 year old episode of Fighting Words is must see TV. It is a reminder of where we went wrong.
Fuuuk. Don't get me started on Quebec City! I spent 2 days there on my vacay and fell in love w/ the place just from the highway- the MOST exciting architecture I've ever seen; makes NYC look like a dump.
I don't get the unwelcome at Gray Rocks bit. My liddle Maple Leaf was an instructor there and was uni-lingual (English) at the time.
I remember back when Bill 101 almost passed. At the time I was in my 30's and a day hop student at Queen's U. The day after the referendum I went around to all my friends in the student union and smacked them all inna head. Seriously. I told them all the kind of bullet Canada dodged from that vote being so fucking close.
I'm more a Quebec Nationalist than pretty much any Anglais Canadians I know. I think it's b/c my grandfather was a revolutionary- the Easter Uprising of 1916. I never met the man, but the tale I was told is that on Easter night he stayed in a barn w/ the rest of his buds not letting them hang a Protestant farmer. For the sin of being 'a Proddy'. In other words, I get the rage of the 'civilly oppressed'.
I was educated in Quebec. Mordecai Richler died nearby from where I live. His novel and the movie The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz talks about the Quebec we were born in and the fact that he died here and I will die here is a tribute to how far we have come. In High School Hugh Maclennan's Two Solitudes was written near here and gives a good picture of the Quebec before the revolution.
I never attended university but when I applied to Bishop's University in Lennoxville the Vice Principal told me my people weren't welcome. Today Bishops is about the most diverse and progressive university in Canada economically, ethnically and socially despite its small size. Bishop's was the school that produced the English speaking bourgois and is still an elite school for the humanities especially for writers and poets..
OK, I'll bite: First Nations? I'm asking b/c I'm baffled you would be told that at all. FWIW, I first heard of Bishops's after my kids got enrolled @ Queen's.
I'm aware of Richler- read 'The National Dream' as well as Duddy.
I am blind in one eye and see the world through one all too blurry eye giving me little depth of field. I could never wear a watch or carry a cell phone my 73 years is but a moment in a universe whose only absolute is entropy. The elephant is way beyond my understanding I am still learning what a rope is.
Well, he appears to me not psychotic, although sometimes his language is hard for me to follow. Therefore I believe he can relate to us some Quebec realities. Pick and choose.
I know many people who live here and don't like Quebec. We had a revolution. Many people have problems with secular humanist liberal democracy. Adams never conceded to Jefferson because he was a Federalist and Jefferson was a Democratic Republican Scientist and Deist.
"I often wonder living 5 hours drive North of Boston why nobody knows we are here."
In my experience, French-Canadian-American culture is not exactly the most conscious or pro-active among ethnic groups. The last time Quebec was front-page news in Boston was most recent attempt to secede, which of course was characterized by TPTB as A Bad Thing.
I returned to Quebec in 2004 after 35 years in English speaking Canada and the USA. Little did I suspect how much Quebec society had changed. Our grandchildren's generation has no taste for separation the status quo is most appealing.
Where I live the local University does not recognize gender, race or religion as identities. Science says there is now only one race of humans as Neanderthals and others races of homo have disappeared 42,000 years ago. Gender is not binary in Quebec and religion belongs in homes, churches and closets. In Quebec our Universities run health, education and welfare and our universities preach equality equality, equality and they are zealots when it comes to democracy.
Of course in a meritocratic liberal democratic society there are unintended consequences such as for over a decade 70% of new doctors are xx chromosomed , our colleges and universities are majority xx chromosomed and our workforce is majority xx chromosomed and domestic partnership agreements are drawn up by lawyers representing society, our churches are empty and we guarantee affordable childcare and paternal and maternal leave. Refugees are welcomed here if they can get across our unmilitarized fenceless border. We need workers and new Canadians or old Canadians who are willing to live in our secular humanist liberal democracy French speaking society.
Our greatest need is new fellow citizens to fill the job openings in our booming economy.
The French language federal leaders debate was on Wednesday and the English language debate on Thursday were very different. It is Quebec and Quebecers who are really enjoying the status quo. All we want are new citizens.Where they come from matters very little there are jobs and opportunities and caregivers for everyone and their families.
Ah! Therein lies the rub. We are globalists. We believe there is only one us. We are a self proclaimed secular humanist society. We are human centric not Deo centric, ethnocentric, or exceptional we believe we are all humans. We believe we are no better than the people behind those fences you built to keep them out. We are humanists and not all of us want to be breeding stock. To tell you the truth the family is a societal construct and our society is adapting to change and maybe change dictates that we need something other than the nuclear family that in 2021 renders us insane citizens.The majority of our workforce is XX and more stay at home moms or dads would crash our economy.
The truth is that not everyone dreams of a life in suburbia.
Note: I think it would help your descriptions, here and above, if you could more clearly identify where and when the "we" refers to: your own opinions; your perception of, or evidence for, majority Quebec opinions that are yours, opinions that are not yours; etc. etc. I think sometimes the point-of-view silently switches from one to another. I'm not so good at picking it up, so, 'my bad' there.
I understand your own preference is the Quebec of c.1970, correct? But some modern things are desirable?
Jordan knows Quebec culture he worked for years with the most dangerous inmates of our most secure insane asylum. I know Fairview Alberta and can understand Peterson's problems. It is difficult to convince yourself you are correct when you know deep inside you are wrong. I suspect the loss of Grant Notley might have crushed Jordan's universe.
Grant Notley was a democratic socialist politician who seemed destined to become Canadian Prime Minister when he perished in a plane crash. Fairview Alberta is a very small town like the one Thornton Wilder wrote about.
I live in maple syrup country and nowhere in Quebec are snails regular menu items. Quebec culture is not French culture. Quebec broke with France because of the revolution. The Quebec revolution started in the 1960s.
Quebecers are Quebecers they are totally unFrench which is neither good nor bad it just is. In France immigrants can never become truly French in Quebec they want everyone to become Quebecers.
I have spent more than half my life outside of Quebec and Quebecers don't like to toot their own horns but they have a very secure and content citizenry.
The image of the angry jealous Quebecers is not today's reality. There is no richer place on the planet in which to live.
It does seem like the vaccine controversy has been purposefully engineered. If it was actually about concern for people's health, politicians and media figures are well capable of being persuasive rather than divisive.
If not intentional, certainly another case of not wasting a crisis.
You see the results with the few statists willing to poke their heads in this comment thread. I gave someone my favorite anarchist line and got called a sovereign state guy - granted, I understand the views can be conflated easily but the latter is much more likely to be considered a right wing terrorist group thanks to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Besides what's a guy gotta do to be called an ANTIFA lackey these days?
I both love and respect aunt Martha who in her late 90s still has got it together. Here in Quebec we are a secular humanist liberal democracy. WE are not worried about authoritarians we the voters are the final and absolute authority and we are bringing up our grandchildren to understand the ways of real liberal democracy. Not only do we have good government but we have a good society and good societies demand their government be good.
America's voters chose Reagan and the lie that government; YOUR GOVERNMENT, was the enemy.
That is GOOD as in eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
How strange that the one place in North America that bans religious promotions in all public places insists on promoting the general welfare as its basic metaphysics.
What kind of a BS word is lockdown ? Public health is a matter for public health departments and it is they who issue health protocols not the quackitocracy. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and goes quack quack. Chances are it is a ______. Our government served the desires of our experts in public health not the Harvard business school. We were hit early and recovered early and because of protocols this fourth wave is not overburdening our hospitals or morgues.
I moved back to Quebec from the Southside of Chicago. My wife and I were the 7% visible minority. Don't lecture me on homogeneous societies. Our little town of 5000 is more diverse than the neighbourhoods of Chicago ethnically, economically and what you call race and gender . If you work for our local university or are a student you are entitled to choose your prefered name of identification, your prefered gender identity and you can even select your preferred specie's identity.
The Quebec I grew up in didn't need immigration. Birth control was illegal, there were never enough jobs and the church made sure the fertility rate was sky high. You can see the product of our emigration everywhere in the USA . Quebecers are an important part of your cultural mosaic.
America is diverse out of necessity not choice and everyday because of our booming economy we become more diverse. All the local mayors are begging for new citizens to fill the jobs that need filling and Haitians , Canadians, Hondurans , Asians , Africans , Americans and even Europeans are welcome to move to where the future is designed to be better than the past.
So, you moved away from all the Black people to experience more diversity? Sounds pretty Canadian to me. By the way, what is the town is it you live in?
I didn't move away from all the black people I moved to downtown Montreal which is really diverse. I did a lot of cooking and the south side of chicago was not the place to shop for my Iranian, East Indian, Oriental, Eastern European and Canadian cuisine. After Montreal and my uncle's demise I retired to a small town in the Eastern Townships. I lived longer in Chicago than I had lived anywhere from the time I was 17 till I was 60. The town I live in is none of your business but Sherbrooke is the closest city. My uncle in Montreal was responsible for my wife and I leaving Chicago we loved living in Woodlawn but sometimes you realize driving in the city is not something old people should do. In Montreal one can get around on public transit. These days we do so little driving we never changed from our winter mandated snow tires.
Might need to throttle that back a notch. We have those SAME graves right here in places like Oregon, Montana, Both Dakotas, etc. We were blessed with these by the same people Canada was. Missionaries. Catholic and others, were paid by the Government to "get those Indian children in line", meaning to forcibly convert them into white culture, language and religion.
My brother filmed a documentary on this at the Lakota Rosebud Reservation
in South Dakota. It was definitely not a "one off" for Canadians. The Canadian bodies were discovered via Ground Penetrating Radar. The bodies remain buried. But everyone knows that myriad more bodies remain to be found, sad to say, on *both sides of our Northern Border.
The Victoria Bridge that spans the St Lawrence and connects Montreal to the mainland is a scene of a mass burial. Many of the graves are those of victims of the Irish genocide where the bottom 20% economically of Irish society were starved to death or deported to places like Montreal or New York where their labour was in high demand. There was no famine in Ireland their food export based economy boomed during the time of no potatoes.
Yes. Our first Prime Minister was a Conservative Racist and executed thousands of innocents. We are in the middle of Truth and Reconciliation and have granted sovereignty to many of our first nations. We cannot give back what we have stolen, we can't bring to life what we have destroyed but we can try not to do it again.
Hey asshole. Those graves were discovered in June, and Friday October 1st was declared a holiday in Canada for Truth And Reconciliation. I have a teddy bear on display at the front of my home.
How fucking dare you point a finger at Canada with your history of slavery and genocide you feckless fuck.
Whoever posted this, please find aunt martha and give her back her computer. She's too smart not to know that the lockdown is the predicate to abuse your opponents and bribe your supporters.
All throughout the vast US federal government, as well as in private industry, there are scattered pools of incompetence and of genius, while on another axis, of corruption and of nobility. Figuring out which is which is not irrational, but a necessity. If you think you've sorted out well what's going on in the fog of the COVID war, you need to read more widely.
Thank you so much for your lucid response. I earned a B.A.degree in Theatre Arts, with a minor in Comparaitive Liteature from a California State College which is a now a California State University. I am retired from the Teamsters' after nearly thirty years as a Professional Driver. The GI Bill allowed me to live comfortably while attending school but my mail box was always full of offers to get unnecessary credit cards or student loans. This was in the early 1970's. An insidious and seductive trap. Fortunately I was not also innumerate. Thanks again for your messages.
Good point. I think this is where Matt and a lot of people go sideways about the evil of meritocracy. Sandel, taken from what Matt quotes, gets a lot closer to the mark when he talks about 'credentialism' versus mere affluence as a marker.
Affluence has been incredibly democratized over the last 75 years in America, basically post-WWII and Great Depression and even accounting for the 1970s inflation spike and the 2008 crash, except you have to be Gen X or older to recognize it. I like to think of it this way. When you're a couple of cube-farm gophers each with a useless master's degree and a metric shit-ton of college debt struggling to keep up appearances in Authenticity Acres (Jim Geraghty's apt moniker for modern suburbia), it has to be beyond infuriating that your next-door neighbor who is a journeyman electrician or plumber has got a tricked-out Dodge Ram, can afford to eat out and vacation in the same or better places, has season tickets to his favorite pro sports franchise, and does it all on just his take home pay. It is almost inevitable that you will grab on to anything else beyond affluence to justify the lifestyle choices that you made as a marker of higher status. That includes your college degree(s), your Prius, and your choices in restaurants, amusements, leisure activities, politics, and religion (or lack thereof). The identity politics crowd has found a fertile ground in stoking these differences to produce tribal conflict among people who should largely have the same interests given their geographic proximity.
Prius? That’s so 2005, dude. It’s Tesla now. My girlfriend and I just bought one; it’s sitting in the driveway of the house we bought four years ago. Neither of us went to college. Well, I went to community college for a couple semesters in like 1998, but you get my point.
In a progressive world it’s no different because the progressive would have you believe healthcare and necessitates grow on trees which are picked by fairies employed by the government who can just print money forever.
You have all those degrees, including some unspecified medical one, and you can't out-earn an elevator mechanic? Maybe he runs an elevator repair business.
I have an undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering. I'm told I'm stupid all the time because of my politics. Even on this forum some guy named "The Strongest" told me to kill myself.
You might mention to the gentleman that there are drugs for that kind of intolerance and hatred. Professional counseling (for him) should probably be pursued. I've never met a stupid mechanical or industrial engineer, but I suppose my experience is limited. I used to mentor MSIEs.
It's possible that you and I are both stupid, we just can't recognize it. It's more likely that someone mistaking a difference in political opinion for stupidity is the real idiot.
It’s a way for children to make a point when they don’t have the bandwidth to express themselves. Deflection, name calling, wishing ill on others. For example: “you smell and I hope you die.” I mean how does one respond to that?
And we have a nation full of enraged people all the way around who constantly say and do things that are reprehensible! I have had the charming experience of being canceled by family for my views. What was said to you is beyond savage. I haven’t kept pace with all of his posts and hope it isn’t his norm. It’s an effort to silence and I hope you won’t fall for it.
You have been listening to too much Chris Hedges and not enough Steven Pinker. I am guilty of the same thing but here in Quebec the change from theocratic plutocracy to liberal democracy has made us rich economically, spiritually and psychologically. It isn't perfect but most of us are looking at an even better future.
"[T]he academy needs to have a place where people can form a deep connection to the intellectual heritage of what's called 'The West.'"
Agreed. Huntington distracted us with his interpretation of the "Clash of Civilizations". The far more critical clash is a ferocious battle internal to the West, the labels (roughly speaking) being: globalism run with totalitarian, secretive, compartmentalized hierarchies of multiple, externally-managed, hermetically-sealed worldview 'pools'; vs. traditional West's open, democratic society of not just rights but responsibilities, and boundaries-by-choice.
Yes. IMO, compared to other countries, America seems to have really crappy elites. If you're gonna be an elite, at least have the decency to be competent at something.
I think we've seen that Europeans are not overly fond of their elites either. This was a good point about Gurri's book - he saw much the same thing happening around the world, which is why he posited that a major shift enabled by technology had happened.
I am five hours North of Boston. I live in a stable prosperous, dynamic and optimistic secular humanist liberal democracy that puts even the rest of Canada to shame. We have endured nothing but bad press since the corporations fled 50 years ago. Liberal democracy has been very good to us. We need millions of workers to fill the 100s of thousands of jobs we are creating every year. Our citizens are are guaranteed basic security and all the education they want or need. We have everything Bernie demands for all Americans and our government was running surpluses before the pandemic so Universal Dentalcare was put on the backburner till we decide if we want to continue having private long term care facilities. We also have affordable childcare even if affordable means free. We do in reality have a universal basic income and despite our welfare society our economy keeps on growing and we are rich beyond anything we could have imagined when I was growing up.
I actually considered changing it from 'American' elites to 'Western', but I feel ours are, perhaps parochially, just a tad worse. Plus, eastern European elites still seem to be serious about their jobs and doing right by their populations.
We had the best and brightest in govt during the Viet Nam conflict or so we are to believe. This is exactly part of the problem - the belief that they are the best and brightest, that they are exceptional and as such entitled. What we need in our elites is a whole lot more humility; and at least a little accountability would be good too.
The rub is that the sociopaths, not necessarily or even usually the ablest, rise to the top. We need some kind of better mechanism to control that. My (catch-all) candidate is to make improvements to media. But we need to up our game fast.
Our problems start in Congress - they (the House in particular) should be exercising oversight of the Executive. Instead they delegate to the Executive and declaim all other responsibility. Improvements in media would be welcome, but until we hold our Reps accountable, they won't hold anyone else so.
All that I can say is that while I do not have a degree, my covid-vax-refusing husband has a master's in a hard science and many of the people I know who are "vaccine hesitant" are also well educated but trained well enough in critical thinking that they are highly skeptical of the narrative.
Covid fanaticism is the religion of midwits -- usually degreed but with poor thinking skills -- who worship those with credentials and terminal degrees whether the intellectual dogma they push makes sense or not.
I seem to have read reporting that two fairly divergent groups are the least vaccinated, Blacks and PhD holders. Are we to believe these are all mouth-breathing right-wing Trumpers?
That has been part of the narrative of big pHarma's propaganda arm, big media. Brand anyone questioning in any way vaccination or the "social measures" as right wing nuts, conspiracy nuts or just plain dumb. In any event here is a link showing PhD's as least vaccinated:
Isn't it also highly educated people who don't vaccinate their kids for pertussis and cause entirely preventable outbreaks of whooping cough? Just because someone is highly educated doesn't mean that they are making good decisions. In fact, often having too much information about something causes people to make worse decisions because a lot of the information is irrelevant and distracts from the relevant and important information that should be used to make the decision.
Just because MD and PhD are next to a name does not confer knowledge. The ocean of knowledge is simply too vast even for well educated people to grasp the nuance of complex situations.
From the original study: "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice."
I did link one such study [under a different comment] and we see another below. It appears this is a highly contentious point with lots of small, contradictory datasets. Selective polling for the victory of rhetoric over reason!
Here in Canada, a professor of ethics at the University of Western Ontario went viral with a tearful video claiming she was losing her job because of a vaccine mandate. At first I felt sympathy, until I learned she refused even to mask up -- not to mention that she wasn't losing her job, only having to go on paid leave.
A professor of ethics who refuses to wear a mask while teaching at a school full of young people? You can't make this up.
Perhaps she does not feel it is ethical for students who are at little risk personally which they can mitigate with their own masks and vaccines to demand that she take further action with her body for their perceived (but not in fact real) benefit.
Is it ethical for me to demand you participate in my rain dance?
You might even disagree on the meaning of "don't work". People have fun saying things like masks don't work to stop the spread (due to compliance failures), but slightly purposefully confounding that with claiming masks do nothing to reduce disease spread (not true).
That said, blaming people for not being vaccinated while allowing the entire country to go indoors and on planes wearing cloth masks when N95 are perfectly available is lunacy.
Young people are less at risk than for seasonal flu. If the masks (and vaccines) work you can make that personal choice - why would you deprive another person of their legal, constitutional and human rights to control their own body and of the fundamental medical ethos of informed consent ? Have you made the slightest effort to do any research beyond listening to the corrupt MSM deluge of fear porn ? Also good comments below. Hope the professor gets back to her job - sounds like she is good at it.
I think that remains to be determined. As far as I know the alternative to being vaccinated under the mandate wasn't being fired, it was just not being allowed on campus. Maybe they'll have her teach her classes over Zoom again; I really don't know. Her name is Dr. Julie Ponesse if you want to look into it.
Indeed, FAR more of the Credentialed than those adept with rational thought, and critical analysis. I personally know *many of the uncredentialed that can think circles around others. Schooling can improve critical thinking, but if it was not learned at home, students barely recognize it when (more like "if" anymore) they encounter it in schools.
Because, if we are out of bed, if we have had our coffee, and if we are not yet harshly judging SOMEONE, we are foolishly wasting our day ! Hi, SH have you been away for a bit ? I haven't seen you much since we convinced a couple of trolls to locate greener pastures ! :-O ;-D
"Over 20 women enrolled in the initial adult Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine trial became pregnant during the study period, and none suffered pregnancy loss or perinatal complications."
When was the first Vaccination open to the PUBLIC? How many children have been born since then? How many of those children were by Vaccinated and Un Vaccinated. And my point is NO one has checked ANYTHING!
Thalidomide was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women. It became apparent in the 1960s that thalidomide treatment resulted in severe birth defects in thousands of children.
Only one women kept it from being OKed in this country:
Frances Kathleen Oldham Kelsey, CM (July 24, 1914 - August 7, 2015) was a Canadian-American pharmacologist and physician. As a reviewer for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), she refused to authorize thalidomide for market because she had concerns about the lack of evidence regarding the drug's safety.
We have no Frances Kathleen Oldham Kelsey to champion US!
So how does the fact that ICUs are overflowing and deaths mounting figure into your opinion? What if the mortality were 5% (overall population) or 10%. Would you sing the same tune?
This is definitely a false narrative nation wide anyway. You are right. I check the US as a whole on CDC website and then all our local numbers and some odd states everywhere. They are so far being hysterical I presume to control people primarily. Even Bill Maher says to stop terrifying people. 40% of Democrats think there's a 50% chance if you get covid you'll go to the hospital and have severe disease. It's between 1 and 5% chance. And if these idiots had gotten that antibody treatment and other therapeutics out there immediately, probably that number would be much lower. Brilliant of Desantis to do that and the death rate dropped fast. That should have happened immediately two years ago. Now Biden is restricting distribution to him. Ah what are those meangingless conservative lives when the greater political Marxist good is at stake.
False narrative - nationwide .... true, not EVERY ICU is "overflowing" - just in some "odd states" could those be the ones where folks are more likely to be "invaxxed"?
Nope, it's seasonality same as last year. That's how we knew the Florida and Texas spikes would recede on their own and how we know everybody will get hit this winter.
Media is poised to lie with the new definition of Vaccinated Death NEW RULE:
“For the purpose of this surveillance, a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person ≥14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine. “
28 days between shots plus 14 days = 42 days . Anything under 42 days is considered an UN vaccinated death.
69% of beds are taken in Idaho. 19% of them by covid patients. You could literally double the number of patients and still be at regular usage. So if Idaho beds get "full", is it because of the 20% of covid patients or the 80% there for something else?
There aren't a lot of open ICU beds in Northern Idaho because there are NEVER a lot of ICU beds in Northern Idaho! Nearby population centers are in neighboring states.
Don't trust me, take a look at the resource. You can zoom in to see every hospital in the area.
By the way, that's a ridiculous way to characterize what he actually said.
--------
Little said he toured an ICU wing at St. Luke’s in Boise on Monday evening that was nearly full with COVID-19 patients who had an average age of 43.
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He's talking about one wing of one hospital. Which may very well be separated by vax status, who knows.
So yeah thanks for proving exactly what I'm saying. You read an article but don't understand it, then use that to claim you know what's happening. All you have to do is look at the actual data and you see the truth.
Well, I can't figure out how you figure this. I am watching the CDC's own numbers and these headlines are not supported by their own data. Cases are not nearly as high as last surge and are coming own fast in Florida and Texas, deaths dropping like a rock. Overall cases and deaths not that high in whole US and might be plateauing. I am looking at our local data, dropping and very few hospitalized in my local area. Michigan cases are up slightly but deaths remain low. It just isn't true so far that cases and deaths are skyrocketing. Most ICU's are not overflowing. None that I've personally checked.
Sad to say, the CDC is only *freshly beyond being a fully controlled, and fully compliant mouthpiece for the Trump administration. Reports during that time were being written *by members of the Trump Admin. One could *tell, because they all sounded as if they were being authored by untutored Sixth-Graders.
Hm, well, not sure I'm following your point again, so I'll be careful. :) I'm not saying the CDC's numbers are necessarily even accurate, but I'm saying the left narratives aren't supported by their own data. Not sure what you are saying here regarding them vs. the present or past administration. I suspect they are suspect no matter who is in charge. But that's my point. At the very least, their own numbers should back up these narratives they throw out there. Like they say for instance, Florida has the worst outbreak, etc. Biden says that on tv. Yet if you look on the CDC website, it shows cases dropping fast and it shows deaths dropped like a rock as soon as Desantis used the antibody centers (which they are now trying to deny them). Am I missing something?
With your point as clarified above, I fully agree. My meaning was simply that I find that I am not able to trust *any source of information anymore. None. And some of them have been relatively reliable (to the best of my knowledge), for most of my life. I am neither a follower nor a fan of the bible, but I am often amazed that it retains even the amount of truth that it frequently does. Lately, I am having a difficult time avoiding the comparison with the present picture, to the biblical story of the Tower of Babel. Interestingly enough, the "many languages" all turn out to be English, and yet I find that I do not *fully understand and/or trust *any of them anymore. So mine was not an attempt to discredit your point made above, but just underscoring the fact that I don't see numbers I am able to trust coming out of *any level, from the CDC on up. In that view, it was an effort to underscore your point.
Ah, now your point is clearer as well. I thought that might be what you meant. Not that I trust the CDC but you'd think their own narratives would match, eh? :)
Just checked again.Looks like Texas is up more than a couple days ago, but not Florida and not most of the US. overall. So not sure I get this hysteria. Not even clear the cases overall are heading up and deaths much lower than last surge at least so far. We will see, I guess. But I don't think that is true yet in very many places.
My son went to a hospital in Los Angeles when they said it was overflowing and took pictures. The staff said no one called to inquire. He said the hospital ICU was empty and so was the waiting room.
Where is the LIST? I will start calling as they still are not separating Pneumonia, heart attacks and cancer from co-morbidity deaths.
All the deaths claimed by COVID are less than 1%.
1% would equal 3,400,000 deaths
1/2% = 1,700,000
1/4 of 1% = 850,000
We're talking LESS than one quarter of 1% and that's including all CO-Morbidity deaths (Heart attack, Stroke, Pneumonia, Flu, liver failure, Kidney failure PRE EXISTING.
CDC Director: ‘I Think You’re Correct’ About Inflated COVID Death Statistics 2021 8.18
Yep, the same so far in our hospitals. Part of the bed shortage is staffing--lots of people quit when they were forced to be vaccinated. I'm sure there are places it's more severe. But it's clear they are forming a false narrative to some degree. But if things change, we can adjust.
Not seeing any big confusion there. Both education and training can lead to critical thinking but neither one correlates absolutely. It does correlate with intelligence because it requires that you make no surface decisions but look at a problem from all angles. It requires that you not reject or accept information based on preconceived ideas for or against the status quo. It also, like the positions of most real scientists, requires a somewhat open mind--that if information changes, so might your conclusions. That's why I find it so hard to comprehend people are completely for or against vaccines--all vaccines. But it's odd the way they assume the vaccine hesitant and/or Trump supporters were uneducated. I presume they are relying on faulty poll data because more health care workers, professional people, business owners, even doctors I know, are both.
A timely comment from another blogger, about the difference between knowledge, education, credentials, and faith in credentials:
"This is what Vico was talking about in his discussions of the flight into abstraction as one of the things that drives the collapse of societies — in place of concrete realities (practical know-how), you have an abstract representation of that reality (an education), then an abstract representation of that abstraction (a certificate), and then an abstract representation of the abstraction of the abstraction (“trust science!”) — and usually it’s right around then that the wheels do in fact come off." https://www.ecosophia.net/the-negative-sum-economy
These halfwits confuse being credentialed with being educated, and educated with being intelligent and competent. Meanwhile they denigrate critical thinking and embrace groupthink. If these are the smart ones, I'll relish my idiocy.
Not exactly. The problem is not so much that people confuse being credentialed with being intelligent and competent -- that's only derivative. It's not the real source of the rage at the bottom. The bigger problem is they *also* confuse being intelligent and competent, very largely immutable characteristics like other identities, with being *morally* superior.
If we didn't have a fetish for, and keep rewarding, intelligence as a *moral* attribute, it would be a (relatively) simple thing to find the truly smartest to lead us, and -- as long as we could also examine who also had superior character attributes -- the rest would know enough to follow them. People would stop obsessing over getting credentialed.
By analogy, one ordinarily has no problem seeking, say, a physically strong person to move a big piece of furniture. Does a healthy but non-muscular small person feel shame over their muscular weakness?
I reached the same conclusion in his inference about vaccines. There's decades of positive results for polio and smallpox vaccines because they use traditional methods and materials to create them. mRNA vaccines are not the same and have never been pushed onto an entire world population within a few months of their creation - especially not as a vaccine - before CoVid came along.
Yep. From this post and past posts, Matt seems to just accept the narrative that anybody who doesn't take this vaccine has been misinformed or is uneducated. Or is making a political statement. Not that he thinks they should be forced, I don't think. Just the inference, they know nothing about "science." Same mentality as the the over-simplified climate change hoopla. If you question any of their propaganda, you aren't very smart (but the powers that be are just handling it all wrong and it's backfiring, seems to be his position--but of COURSE vaccines are the only way to handle this). That seems to be his position which seems to lack real investigation or critical thinking --something he's so good at. Especially with vaccines failing like this, you'd think they'd at least question if this was really the right thing to do at all. Probably would have been better to let the mutations compete and used the antibody and therapeutics on older people. These idiots STILL do not have that antibody treatment available like it should have been. Trump was talking about doing that when he left and it's only recently been available or promoted--along with any therapeutics, and now since it's working in Florida and Texas, Biden wants to restrict distribution there -- kill them in all in the name of control and politics. Lots of possible disasters on the horizon if they've been wrong about all this...
You have described the shit -fog that we are living under...I have taken to referring to the current political climate as Medical McCarthyism. In the Fall 2021 edition of The New Atlantis there is an article by the editor "What Is the CDC?" It is worth the read! As I'm sure both you & Mark will remember, the first thing we were told was that the manufacturers of these * vaccines* were indennified
From Thomas Sowell, “Intellectuals and Society” chapter 1 - Intellect and Intellectuals:
“Intellect is not wisdom…Sheer brainpower—intellect, the capacity to grasp and manipulate complex concepts and ideas—can be put at the service of concepts and ideas that lead to mistaken conclusions and unwise actions, in light of all the factors involved, including factors left out of some of the ingenious theories constructed by the intellect.
Brilliance—even genius—is no guarantee that consequential factors have not been left out or misconceived.”
Also:
“The capacity to grasp and manipulate complex ideas is enough to define intellect but not enought to encompass intelligence, which involves combining intellect with judgment and care in selecting relevant explanatory factors and in establishing empirical tests of any theory that emerges.
Intelligence minus judgment equals intellect.
Wisdom is the rarest quality of all—the ability to combine intellect, knowledge, experience, and judgment in a way to produce a coherent understanding. Wisdom is the fulfillment of the ancient admonition, 'With all your getting, get understanding.' Wisdom requires self-discipline and an understanding of the the realities of the world, including the limitations of one's own experience and of reason itself. The opposite of high intellect is dullness or slowness, but the opposite of wisdom is foolishness, which is far more dangerous.
George Orwell said that some ideas are so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them, for no ordinary man could be such a fool.”
It's a pseudomeritocracy because the people involved and most hateful of the uneducated are actually completely incompetent and less educated than a high schooler from a few decades ago. It's participation trophy meritocracy.
"I should be able to look down on the plebs no matter how many times I get caught in half assed lies, prove to be incompetent, and shown I am not that bright!" - America's elites
Sort of, but not really. There's snobs up and down the socioeconomic scale. As I apply it, elite means those elite university mopes that feel intelligence foresight, analytical ability, or anything else they might want to consider themselves as being...is certified by their elite university degree. The concept of "subsidiarity" does not apply to them; they feel that whatever situation they might find themselves in, they are the rightful heirs to dictate and assign, no matter how far removed from the topic at hand.
"Snob" is just an affectation. In Down and Out in Paris and London Orwell described the French waiters he worked with as being almost destitute snobs. My gut tells me the people working the Met Gala are cut from the same cloth, which is why I didn't have the same visceral negative reaction to the images of the aristos and their masked servants that other people did. It's a gross event full of gross people, but the guys arranging Marie Antoinette's dress desperately want to be there.
Elites are basically nobility, but we're not supposed to have that sort thing these days, so we call it something else. It's most apparent in the UK with their out in the open upper class pipeline through Eton. There are similar private schools in the US, but you've probably never heard of them.
Hm, I am not sure about this. I have an MFA degree and was an adjunct professor -- and it is true that much of this left Marxism is being driven by university indoctrination and these "educated" people believe that all conservatives and particularly Trump supporters are uneducated Walmart shopping rubes. But even though that's the narrative droned on by media, university elites and Hollywood, I think this stereotype and framing of this divide is inaccurate. I know health care workers, business people, professional people, and even a few college professors and teachers--actually people from all walks of life -- who are part of this divide because they are educated and students of history. And the same holds true with the over-simplification you insist upon ascribing to people with vaccine hesitancy. There is also a cross section of people not wanting to take this vaccine and they are not anti-science or even pro or anti Trump. I taught argument classes and I know all vaccines are not the same and this one has not been studied. There are probably next to NO people who are actually anti-ALL-vaccines. Anyone who studies science also knows that since it has not been studied properly, the ADE effect, the Marek Effect, or some of the problems with flu shots. And the way these vaccines are behaving should give everyone pause. I'm not sure if it is your intention but you seem to be implying that only uneducated people are vaccine hesitant. It's true these are the narratives been regurgitated about both this vaccine AND people who supported Donald Trump, but it just isn't accurate on either count. Health care workers are educated people and they are among some of the biggest protestors about this vaccine mandate. I am a full time care taker for my father now (who has Parkinsons) and exactly half of the nurses and therapists who come in here refuse the vaccine to date and the others who got it were not happy about it. At any rate, I don't think your point is very clear here.
Agreed, I have a professional degree and also do a lot of research and what do you know, that also leads to vaccine hesitancy. The main stream wants to generalize and lump everyone that is not vaccinated in one easy “they are stupid” bucket. They also do that with Ivermectin. The veil is lifting and the shenanigans are coming into the light.
Yep - doctorate degree here, and same. In many cases it is “those that read the science” versus those that trust others to do so. Not all science is the same either - control the control group, and you control the result. Small sample size = less reliability. It’s critical thinking at issue here, and not for the side they want you to think.
If you're pretty smart, you know that "the science" tells you the vaccine is safe.
If you're very smart, you know that the science tells you that vaccine safety data tells you the vaccine safety out exactly as long as it's been used in people, i.e. a little over one year.
Lack of long term safety data is a perfectly rational reason to decline the vaccine. It's one's own bet to make.
My dad died of lung cancer after 20 years of ACE inhibitor use for blood pressure control. During his illness the medical journal articles emerged that 15 years of ACE inhibitor use caused a 40% increase in lung cancer risk. Science was pretty sure they were the best thing for him decades ago.
I came down on the side of vaccinating myself because the worst vaccine safety surprise I know of still was only a 1 in 10,000 side effect and it wasn't so likely to happen at all anyway. I also took heart from the fact that Zika and other viruses have had clinical mRNA vaccines years ago and no safety signal.
If I have a side effect in 30 years I don't care. Very different math in terms of vaccinating my kids, though.
Sample size is important. Someone needs to invent a metric on the retrospective power of a study to see a result at a given interesting level. Until then, look at the 95% confidence intervals.
I could randomly sample three men and three women in the United States and most of the time get a result that doesn't conclude statistically that they have different average height.
Leaky vaccines can cause huge problems and it may actually be THE VACCINATED and the government that are not acting for the "greater good." It remains to be seen. Way too early to tell, but we know things are not going as they planned or predicted. In the Marek Effect on chickens, they could be forcing the virus in the middle of a pandemic to be more deadly in which case everybody WILL have to be vaccinated now, when it had a survival rate of 99% and should have been left alone. Not to mention, Fauci causing this with the gain of function garbage - a prediction I made for years--told my friends it would not be climate change--it would be these idiots messing with things they know nothing about. If it's ADE, there could be a future mutation that enhances pathology for the vaccinated and kills them all. I swear sometimes they know this is possible and want everybody in t he same boat in case it's true. Too many live conservatives. Ok, I'm kidding here. But they really know next to nothing about this virus or the vaccines and that should be obvious. I am not even sure the data is right that vaccinated are getting less ill. Not supported in UK, or I think Iceland. They are messing with these statistics. Bottom line, people better lose weight and get healthy if they want to be around on this planet long (another convenient thing--gets rid of the old and infirm mostly). I'm a writer so I have a good imagination... lots of story plots.
The more significant variants - e.g. Delta, arose in places like India with very low rates of vaccination, i.e. unlikely to have arisen in unvaxxed individuals ...
I think the argument is more about that the vaccine forces the virus to mutate around the vaccine, but it doesn't necessarily take that many people to get vaccinated for that to happen, the mutation just needs one person and then people to spread to.
Studies show vaccines increased infectivity and no reason why it went crazy in Israel and UK if they worked properly. Not conclusive that just because it initially spread there among unvaccinated that it didn't mutate from vaccinated individuals who were there or visiting. Natural immunity people aren't testing positive mostly. Way too little known. And we KNOW that vaccines in a pandemic cut down on the number of mutations and the competition, etc.
What studies? Mutate from vaccinated individuals but not from unvaccinated ones - how does that work? Sorta left out the influence of the Delta variant, eh - which arose in India where vaccination rate is quite low
No, they still do not know that it didn't originate from vaccinated people there and spread to the unvaccinated. I'll bet even YOU can mastermind your way around that, and some of the biggest surges are in vaccinated countries which shouldn't be the case. Read the NEw York Times article. Even they admit the vaccines could have caused Delta. But then YOU know everything.
SH, not sure if I am mistaking you, but India with very low rates of vaccination means with almost certainty that the variant arose in unvaxxed individuals. Why would lower vaccination rates make that "unlikely"?
Harry, just because it spread in India doesn't mean the mutation happened in unvaxxed individuals first. It seems very strange if it didn't happen in vaxed individuals that it would have spread so widely in UK and Israel where the vaccination rate is so high. That just doesn't make sense. It could, however, happen that vaxed people made the mutation and many unvaxxed people in India contracted it. I just don't think the narrative makes sense the way you want to spin it. It just wouldn't have spread so widely in the vaccinated population so quickly. Not impossible, but more likely the other way around. You'd think the vaccinated wouldn't have been infected to that rate.
Reminds me of what Chomsky said - allow very vigorous debate within relatively strict guidelines. Un-vaccinated have been moved outside those guidelines.
Said shenanigans cannot come to light fast enough ! Thank you so much for your input. I am guessing that you KNOW how starved is the general public for even a FEW brief words on this subject that come from someone who seems to know what the hell she is *talking about !
Am a retired physician - who got the J&J - think we need better vaccines and the failure of current vaccine makers to provide quantities available for trials against new candidates ("the competition") may make new candidates very difficult to test ...
But at this point, the ones we have seem to reduce incidence of disease requiring hospitalization and death, that's something ...
This new theory of evolution through natural selection has too much design and not enough science. Is having enough money the new standard for evolution? What ever happened to random chance.
Much of my cohort and I received the Astra Zeneca vaccine. Our mortality rates and the low numbers requiring hospital care say its efficacy was equal to Pfizer and Moderna and it came at a fraction of the financial cost and our government has been excellent stewards of our money. After decades of austerity and investing in our future OUR government was running income surpluses and our economy was growing, growing and growing. While this election is about jobs west of Quebec here the election is about getting workers and immigration.
I grew up taught to worship America. I no longer worship it I would love to help save it.
I lived for over a decade in America and it is difficult to wean a civilization off a steady diet of BS.
As a physician, do you have a medical/science explanation as to why we (the public) still seem to know next to nothing about *who* is susceptible to developing severe symptoms and death, and who is not? How can healthy 30-year-olds drop dead within days, while 95% of all seniors eventually recover?
Part of the resistance is surely the low overall IFR people see. But the susceptibility dimension is studiously ignored by TPTB and the media. If this were another Black Death plague, people would be fighting to get in the clinic doors.
I live in Quebec. We are a secular humanist liberal democracy. We voters are the ultimate authority and put public health experts in charge of making decisions on public health. My cohort of 60 and over is over 90% vaccinated and those of us over 75 are 93%. Our first wave was concurrent with the wave in NYC and it devastated our private long-term care facilities. We are in a new wave and most of those in our hospitals are unvaccinated and our hospitals are not being taxed and mortality total per day average in a population of 8.5 million has gone from just below one death a day to an average of two.
Life is far too complex to ask the questions you want to ask. I trust the experts and their peer reviews over my gut reactions knowing that in our liberal democracy the peers doing the reviewing work for us not Pfizer, Moderna or Purdue pharmaceutical.
Yes there is risk that somehow the vaccine will adversely affect our "evolution" but are we really evolving or just adapting to change?
I'm an emergency physician and have attended three lectures by national vaccine experts in the last year. I also follow the medical literature on the subject. Some of what you write here is completely unsupported by any scientific research. I've spent my career filling out death certificates. It is frequently difficult to know the exact cause of death, but most of the people who have died of Covid have spent weeks dying and the cause is pretty obvious. Of course, many of the people who have died of Covid are very old, are grossly overweight, have diabetes or heart disease, but they are still dead and the proximate cause of their death is Covid. There is an article this week in the NEJM looking at one million people in Israel who have been vaccinated and looking at the side effects. I think if people were dying from the vaccine, that would be pretty obvious in this well-designed and controlled study. With regard to your point 4, there is an article from Israel that suggests that prior Covid infection provides better protection than the vaccine. With regard to the claim that the vaccine changes or creates new DNA, please cite your source. Everything I have read belies that claim.
With regard to natural infection providing better immunity - that may be so, with any disease, but do we want to do away with vaccines and wait to "thin out the herd" - I think that is an approach that we, as a species, decided against when we decided to develop them ....
I agree with you. I'm simply looking at the current medical literature. Personally, I agree with the CDC recommendation that people who have had the infection should get one vaccination, but it may turn out not to be necessary. I find many of the comments here about the vaccine to be stupefyingly ignorant and based on scribblings they've pulled off the Internet.
Why has the FDA denied boosters to all but the elderly?
Where are the reports of Children Conceived under Vaccine?
YOU Can not know how many people have died from the Vaccine because it only refers to people who died AFTER 42 days. Those who die from the shot will die within 2 weeks.
Explain, with your "Know it all PHD"' how YOU can tell the difference when signing a death certificate.
Also how do you know the difference between those who died WITH Covid and those who died BECAUSE of COVID?
This is the nature of RNA:
Retroviral vectors are fascinating and efficient delivery tools for the transfer of nucleic acids. As a hallmark, all retroviruses are capable of reverse transcribing their single stranded RNA genome into double stranded DNA, which will be stably integrated into the host cell genome. Animal DNA integrated into the HOST GENOME
The Jab should not even be called a VACCINE because it doesn't do anything except REDUCE SYMPTOMS. You still carry the disease and you can still infect other people and you can get it yourself,,,, again.
Immunity - the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.
(Medicine) protected against a specific disease by inoculation or as the result of innate or acquired resistance.
Vaccine -
The purpose of a vaccine is to provide the person receiving it with immunity to a particular microorganism.
OK - so the retrovirus may transcribe itself - but the vaccine is not the virus - does the vaccine contain that same reverse transcriptase? And if not, how does it get into host DNA?
Also - a vaccine is as a vaccine does - and these "vaccines" result in antibody production - are they perfect - no, we need better ones - but they are better at reducing severe illness and death than the virus ...
I respect your MD and experience and I ask that you Please read the PI if you haven’t. I think the changing DNA etc is pretty far off base IMO. Here comes the “but”
I work in development and I can tell you from a regulatory and clinical dev perspective despite being available for less than 1 year, this therapeutic must be the most perfect in history - there are no contraindications listed other than allergy to components (prob PPG) and practically no AEs other than ISR and flu-like symptoms.
As a physician you know that even MMR has more contraindications and DEATHS and certainly decades of data than does this experimental (yet oddly approved) shot. It’s why we still have a vaccine victims compensation board which by the way is not applicable to COVID injections.
But more than the science (which apparently changes based on who is allowed to speak on any given day) I object to compelling people to participate in clinical trials (even Ph III) It is completely against ICH guidelines AND The Declaration of Helsinki. ALL other required “vaccines” have long term safety profiles AND exemptions. The only exemption here seems to be for illegal alien.
Btw the fastest priority review and approval I have ever personally seen tooK almost 1 year AFTER phase I and ongoing Ph II w multiple interim analyses. That was for an actual vaccine with a slight change for an additional indication.
I am open to reputable sources who can make a solid case for forced medication in the absence of At least 2-3 yrs and ongoing (sort of long term) CLEAN safety reporting
Disclaimer: I encourage ANYONE who wants the shot to get it ASAP ESPECIALLY those in high risk categories and/or without conclusive T-cell immunity.
We're in the middle of pandemic from which millions of people have died. Government taking its time is exactly what happened at the beginning of the pandemic when the CDC blocked private labs from developing test kits and it was impossible for me to test anyone. I'm personally quite comfortable about the competency and thoroughness of the approval process. I understand why people might be hesitant to be vaccinated, particularly with the reams of nonsense on the internet; all you have to do is to read some of the comments here to see how much ignorant nonsense is out there. But there are very good quality studies which have examined the side effects in millions of recipients. Read this weeks New England Journal which studied side effects in a million recipients. It is very clear that for most individuals the vaccine is far safer than the disease. If this was a compulsory vaccine against Marburg or Ebola, what you say might make sense, since the likelihood of exposure would be virtually zero. However, with Covid 19, virtually everyone will be exposed sooner or later. Incidentally, there is a Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program for the Covid vaccine, which varies from the national vaccine injury compensation program, but I don't understand the differences.
It is asserted that the vaccine does create DNA in the vaccinated. Prove it.
Are you a molecular biologist specializing in the study of DNA synthesis, DNA replication, RNA reverse transcriptase, the biology of transposons, retroviral-like retrotransponsons or nonretrovial retrotransposons?
Retroviral vectors are fascinating and efficient delivery tools for the transfer of nucleic acids. As a hallmark, all retroviruses are capable of reverse transcribing their single stranded RNA genome into double stranded DNA, which will be stably integrated into the host cell genome. Animal DNA integrated into the HOST GENOME
Agreed that there should be more focus on testing and recording natural immunity if transmission is the government concern and there should be no vaccine mandates, especially for the naturally immune—it makes no sense.
There is a question as to weather it's even a VACCINE as all it does is reduce the effects and they don't even know for how long (Breakthroughs) and they can still spread the contagion.
They don't even know the effects on reproduction but do know it changes Menstrual cycles. How will it effect the DNA of children?
Come on, you can't be that POLITICALLY motivated to the point that you're not even CURIOUS?
"a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease"
Now is it uniformly effective? No. But then again is any vaccine 100% effective? Not everyone responds to vaccination with an effective immune response.
"How will it effect the DNA of children?" Since you are asking the question provide the rationale that it would affect their DNA. To do so, it would have to behave like a retroviral-like retrotransposon and have reverse transcriptase properties. The vaccine only contains the RNA for the Spike protein.
Apart from making an assertion and repeating a widely spread meme from the internet where are your data to make such a conjecture. Of course, you will use the fact that you worded the meme as a question rather than a proven fact. Earlier you presented it as fact.
Political? Maybe what he hears from doctors and medical professionals just seems to make a little more sense to him than the glib, uninformed, clownish, amatuer gibberish you traffic in. Who gives a shit what your opinions on the vaccines are? Why would you get out of bed in the morning and even think you had anything of value or importance to say to others on the science of virology? You have an opinion. A very uninformed opinion. Opinions are cheaper and more annoying than lawn weeds. I got the Pfizer vaccine because, crazy me, when it comes to medical issues, medical professionals are the people I tend to consult and listen to for advice.
The vast majority of human beings exhibit these very same traits and behaviors. So far it's worked out marvelously for me. You don't trust the vaccines? Don't get a vaccine shot. Nobody, and I mean nobody, gives two hoots in hell about your reasons for not getting a vaccine, or your opinions on the vaccines themselves. And they sure as hell have no need to read your transcribed, cherry-picked, second-hand source material, most of it erroneous and all of it tediously redundant.
But in the meantime, why not shut the fuck up about a serious subject you know comparably NOTHING about? Use your time more productively. Why don't you call up your dentist and make an appointment to have your brakes worked on? Or your mechanic to see if he can fit you in next week for a root canal. Watch out for the experts, though---they're snootier than hell!
Doctors and nurses, other health professionals—E.M.T.s, home health aides, therapists—are generally less likely to say that they’ll get immunized, and a recent survey of C.N.A.s found that nearly 75% were hesitant to get the vaccine. “In many cases, vaccine hesitancy is not a lack-of-information problem, it’s a lack-of-trust problem,” David Grabowski, a professor of health-care policy at Harvard, told me.
“Staff doesn’t trust leadership. They have a real skepticism of government.
It does provide some protection against the virus HOWEVER it’s primary endpoint is symptom reduction especially in high risk individuals (largely the same high risk people as seasonal flu)
Just because you are well educated d does not mean that you should consider yourself knowledgeable in the area of vaccines. "These vaccines have not been studied". That is patently a false statement. They do not have years of real world use this is true; however, every vaccination means one more data point in an accumulating mass of information.
What you appear to be describing is how a person manages the perception of risk. Generally people fear what they do not know and do not understand. As such COVID-19 is frightening. This is particularly the case when there are so many conflicting narratives. Nevertheless, with what is known thus far, individuals vaccinated against COVID-19 are much less likely to have morbidity and mortality than those who are not. Additionally, various methods of assessing vaccine safety support the safety of vaccination. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
Many of the mountains of adverse events reported are not serious. Deaths attributed to a vaccine occur in the setting of millions of injections and are frequently confounded. Additionally, individuals ignore that fact that even among healthy people who are young there is an underlying rate of death. Greater than 380 million doses of vaccine have been administered in the US alone and more than 5 billion globally. Where are the bodies?
There may be a number of healthcare workers who refuse vaccination. However, given the nuance of medicine and biology it is inappropriate to assume that all healthcare workers are equally capable of assessing risk. This is why we have individuals trained in virology, molecular biology, infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Unfortunately, the governance of the US has been so blatantly poor over the past 30+ years that trust is at an all time low. I don't consider Trump supporters to be particularly poorly educated or lacking in intelligence. What I think binds many of them together is a sense of being betrayed by the Power Elite of this country. Shifting manufacturing overseas has immiserated millions of people and led to a powerful backlash against authority. The denigration of government and the creation of the mindless bureaucrat meme (all for political advantage) has done as much as anything to create suspicion and a lack of trust amongst the populace. This mistrust expresses into in a number of potential self-harming behaviors.
YES, As an Independent who didn't vote for either party, I can understand why they feel so disenfranchised. They were the working people. Democrats are the Welfare people. They saw the US becoming a Welfare State like the failing Central and South American countries.
Now that we're slowly retracting from foreign intrigue, perhaps more money can be funneled into education to make our Citizens more educated. Kids today have no Idea what the laws are, they have no idea of our history of development and have NO Notion of the Constitution, Bill of Rights or that the Magna Carta provided the foundation for individual rights in Anglo-American jurisprudence.
And they won't if the far left is kept in charge of education. But we needed those charter schools and better education for sure. I hope so, but not holding out much hope.
Oh please. Vaccines usually take an average of ten years to be approved and studied. Just because that technology was started does NOT qualify. You know nothing about this particular one and they've been wrong constantly on their predictions. And under-reporting injuries.
Oh please, you know nothing about the development of either drugs or vaccines. Following your logic would you want to wait for 10 years to develop a vaccine for a virus with a 5%, 10%, 20% mortality? Currently, ICUs are packed and in Idaho, at least, care is being "rationed". Now if everyone with serious and life-threatening infection was just herded into a hospice-care setting and 1918 rules applied then sure let's await perfection and greater certainty. People started vaccinating with dried scrapings from smallpox scabs centuries ago. A little bit more is known about immunology, virology, and molecular biology since then.
Over 380 million doses of vaccine has been administered in the US. Regions with high vaccinations rates are showing dramatically lower rates of infection. Regions with low vaccination rates have overflowing ICUs and delayed elective surgeries due to insufficient beds and staff. If things are so sinister where are the bodies from the vaccinated?
No WAY, the conclusions they draw from Iceland and UK and more are ludicrous but Iceland has a huge surge right now and is totally vaccinated. You KNOW NOTHING about it. THey seem to think this makes them closer to herd immunity, I GUESS because vaccines makes them MORE contagious. So maybe the NATURAL immunity will achieve this. We will see. It's insanity.
"The 20 percent of Icelanders who didn’t get vaccinated or haven’t already had COVID are now catching Delta, alongside breakthrough cases of vaccinated people. (Children under 16, who aren’t yet eligible for vaccination, make up most of the unvaccinated population). A couple thousand people have tested positive in recent weeks, a spike in cases far exceeding the worst weekly case-rates from 2020.
But hospitalizations have not surged to the same degree as cases in this latest Icelandic surge. That’s because older Icelanders, as a group, are highly vaccinated. Younger people, who as a group are less vaccinated, are the ones getting infected now."
Note that "hospitalizations have not surged". What about Idaho, Louisiana, Misssissippi, and Florida?
Children are also making up a larger percentage of the hospitalizations because they are not vaccinated. The Delta variant is also around 6-8 times more infectious than the original strain (R0 or approximately 8). So naturally, the Delta variant spreads faster and infects more people in a shorter period of time.
So, no, you know very little about vaccines, transmission of infectious disease, healthcare policy, and definitely nothing about the interpretation of complex data. I rather doubt it has crossed your mind that more people infected equals not only more immediate strain on the healthcare system but also a much greater chance of the development of more virulent strains and strains with larger R0 values. And you also failed to mention the following in one of your sources:
"What’s happening in Iceland right now might be one of the final stages in the long, often painful process by which a country achieves some form of population-level herd immunity against a dangerous virus."
Perhaps that goal will be achieved because they will weather the Delta variant and because they have a high percentage of the population vaccinated.
I read the whole article and I posted it because you said vaccinated areas had lower spread and you of course are wrong. In Iceland, in Israel and in the UK. they have huge surges and are the most vaccinated. I think their conclusions are pretty worrisome since if the vaccine increases infectivity AND escape mutations, the NEXT mutation may cause ADE. Increased pathology and all scientists know this is at least a possibility. So stop saying inaccurate things. Some of the most highly vaccinated places have the worst outbreaks. That alone should give you pause or at least make you ask questions. But to someone who knows everything, it probably doesn't.
You can access this week's New England Journal which has a study of one million people who received the vaccine and compared the side effects to unvaccinated controls. You don't need a subscription to read it. It's a very well-written study in the most prestigious medical journal and it's free to read.
Ok, I just took a quick peak and already I just read some contradictory information -- I just read yesterday from some "conventional reputable" place I forget where, I admit, yesterday, saying the real virus does not cause Bell's Palsy, shingles or myocarditis in young people for sure. And we know the vaccines shed that spike protein (my father gave me shingles). And of course, if they are calling everybody unvaccinated who got sick between doses, that is problematic -- and they are. For a survival rate of over 98% it's incredible they didn't stop vaccines after the usual number of injuries and there are have been thousands instead of hundreds. Even the Atlantic ran an article about how they were calling even people in there with something else and mild disease severe covid. So the big problem right off the bat is we know they are messing with this data.
Your father gave you Shingles! You got Shingles because you were infected with Herpes zoster as a child, it became dormant in the dorsal root ganglia of your spinal cord where it happily resided until it reactivated one day began replicating and then expressed itself by following the nerves from your spinal cord to your skin.
Oh and what does "And we know the vaccines shed the spike protein (my father gave me shingles)" even mean? Are you drawing on "personal experience" and independent and unrelated events and conflating them to support your opinion? You may read widely but you know very little about infectious diseases or virology.
And p.s. the article appears to say nothing about some of the vaccine disasters like ADE (Dengue), or Marek's effect in chickens. Years ago, a PBS special on how vaccines cause more severe disease. We don't know the overall effects of this on society down the road--they are just hoping they guessed right.
Just great you have an ability to conflate all sorts of "true" but irrelevant information to support your thesis. As far as guessing right (I'll agree with that), well I would rather have someone leading the charge with a well grounded educated guess than an ignorant and arrogant individual who has "done their own research" and cherry picks information to support their ignorance.
You are the only arrogant person here. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm asking questions which is what Matt started this blog for. Only YOU think you have all the answers.
and p.s. This whole substack thing was founded so that we could ask questions and have a debate. You and some others on here think I shouldn't ask those questions or discuss research I've found by other scientists. The arrogance of that is breath taking. Instead of arguing the issues and giving your reasons, you not only think everybody should do what you/they say, you think I should be quiet, don't you? You apparently don't understand the whole purpose here.
I might do that, though they are messing with these statistics. People with only one vaccine are "unvaccinated" and they don't even consider that might be a vaccine injury or side effect. And other problems with their numbers. But will give it a read. I read all sides of this and I read vaccine history issues as well. Will be surprised if that is included there. But because the technology has been around ten years has nothing to do with actual clinical trials on safety over time that are normally done and obviously were not. So we'll see.
Another tell! The nanny state! I'll bring down the nanny state with my powerful vaccine disinformation! Ever tried an ivermectin milkshake? Unbelievably tasty and cures covid to boot!
CHeck the NIH website and look at just how many studies are being done on ivermectin and read the abstracts -- they think some combination of it might have real merit. You couldn't think critically if you had to choose between breathing air or water. I have never heard anyone spout talking points more than you do. There are over 28 studies being done right now.
And you the "bearer or truth" will doubtless inflict your ego and muddled thinking on the rest of us. So long as you pay out of pocket for all COVID-19 related medical expenses that would be acceptable.
YOU are the "bearer of truth" clearly. I am saying nobody knows what is going on with this but YOU think you know enough that only a fool wouldn't take it or it should be mandated. It could be YOU causing the disaster going forward and there is science supporting that possibility I'm not telling ANYONE to get it or not get it. But YOU are advocating for vaccines, oh "bearer of truth." Let it be on your head. And don't give me this socialist bullshit about paying for YOUR mistakes. Get real. 80% of the people dying of this and getting sick and FAT. Even vaccinated. Why should we pay for their irresponsibility and poor health. Just because they get a shot? You wait. You'll be eating your words soon.
You reveal your true underlying intentions. I figured it would not take too long.
According to you: "I am saying nobody knows what is going on..." That is a very far reaching conclusion. There is always uncertainty when it comes to information, nevertheless, well informed and knowledgeable individuals can make good decisions. You want to misdirect from those decisions.
I am advocating for vaccines, this is true. The evidence is overwhelming that vaccines provide protection. They are not perfect but they definitely decrease the risk of severe disease and death. If they decrease the probability of penetration within a population then they will also decrease the risk of the emergence of a more virulent mutation.
"Why should we pay for their irresponsibility and poor health"...
Sure, but there are also people who are not obese or reprobates who are infected as well. Should "we" pay for them? Should "we pay" for those who refuse vaccination because it is their "right"? I'm rather reminded of the family whose child was not vaccinated for tetanus. That child became infected and suffered for months in the hospital often requiring periods of drug-induced paralysis and ventilation because of the spasms. The family refused to have that child vaccinated even after the child had recovered. The hospital bill was over $800,000. Should we pay for that?
So you have inferred that I am a "Socialist" and think "Socialist" bullshit thoughts. No, I just think that you should bear the consequences of your behaviors. As freedom loving and a critic of the "Nanny State" you most certainly should accept the cost of medical care should you become infected and have a particularly nasty course. Costs could easily expand into $500,000 or more. Why should I bear any burden (e.g., indirect cost of increased insurance premiums) to cover your rights? It is perfectly reasonable that a CEO of a major insurer would want to increase your rates or co-pays. Small price to pay for your freedom.
Don't be ludicrous. Not unless you plan to make every fat person, every alcoholic (one of my high school friends has run up quite a bill with cirrhosis these days, but oh yes, that is a DISEASE, that's right). Maybe we shouldn't treat her. Every smoker. Or rescue people who take a boat out on a bouncy day. Or treat someone who had no seatbelt on, eh? They deserved it. Just where do you think that stops? And don't think it will stop with this. They'd love nothing better than to control every single thing we do from cradle to grave. I just am not yet convinced vaccinating the whole population, low risk people was in any way right and we'll see who ends up being right. If it's wrong, it will be a disaster.... They are doing a clinical study on the whole population and trying to eliminate the control group. With no long term studies. We'll see, I guess.
Doctors and nurses, other health professionals—E.M.T.s, home health aides, therapists—are generally less likely to say that they’ll get immunized, and a recent survey of C.N.A.s found that nearly 75% were hesitant to get the vaccine.“In many cases, vaccine hesitancy is not a lack-of-information problem, it’s a lack-of-trust problem,” David Grabowski, a professor of health-care policy at Harvard, told me. “Staff doesn’t trust leadership. They have a real skepticism of government.
I am a care-taker and we have both N-Pallliative doctors and therapists in here all the time. At least half of them have no plans to be vaccinated and many are protesting in the capitol here. Very strange health care workers aren't lining up. I imagine they've seen vaccine injuries and many have natural immunity. Which is better. Yet they keep trying to associate vaccine hesitancy with low education and ignorance. I'd say health care workers are the most informed of all. My doctor friend is trying to decide if she quits or lets them own her body.
Yes, thank you for this. I noticed this as a major blind spot in the article.
In case anyone is not familiar, Carnegie Mellon published a study on vaccine hesitancy based on a survey of 5 million people. Stratified by education level, it formed a U-curve, with the most hesitant falling into the "less than high-school diploma" and the "PhD" categories. 23% of people with PhDs that they surveyed were hesitant, and interestingly, the PhD percentage changed the least among the groups over the course of the study (Jan to May), suggesting that they were both most hesitant of all groups and also least likely to change their minds. https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/
It wasn't peer reviewed or published anywhere, as far as I can tell. "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1
Lots of research on covid is released on preprint servers because peer review takes months and we are in a dynamic, quickly changing situation. Should we look carefully at the data? Yes. But we should do so in any case because peer review has its own problems. If you don’t believe me, sign up for Retraction Watch (retraction of peer-reviewed research). Or read Ioannidis on why most published research is wrong. Ironically, he is one of the most cited researchers in history.
Ok, well the study was based on a Facebook poll, was funded by Facebook, and the education level was self-reported. The lead researcher said that people inflated their educational level. It's just not a good study, and it doesn't seem like it has been published anywhere since being uploaded.
oh my goodness, you are hilarious. Again only for the benefit of others who may be interested, the study was not based on a Facebook poll. Facebook was used to recruit participants to the study through their Data for Good initiative, where they are partnering with research institutions (such as Carnegie Mellon and U Pittsburgh in this case) to help conduct research.
All studies have limitations which should be identified and disclosed. One of the limitations of ALL large surveys is that they are always self-reported. 5 million people participated in this study. To verify the data provided by 5 million people is far beyond the scope of any survey-based study since the cost to do so would be absolutely prohibitive. Nowhere in the manuscript do the researchers suggest that there was inflation of education level among self-identified PhDs. In fact, in the limitations section they state "we assume the survey was completed in good faith" and note only concerns as to the self-described gender category. Also, out of 5 million respondents, there were 10,000 PhDs. Since that percentage is less than that in the general population, there is no real reason to suspect widescale misreporting.
Time from submission of an article to final publication (through editorial review, peer review, revisions, final editorial review, and publication) easily takes 4-6 months, and reasonably up to 8 if the journal allows longer time frames for peer reviewers to complete their review (up to 80 days at some journals) and researchers to complete their revisions.
The stated purpose of the study was to identify demographic areas of hesitancy so as to more effectively combat it, so these guys are actually on your team, shill. You should cut them some slack. :)
Pharma has serious problems (shit, Purdue Pharma for example) but these vaccines are good. Please do your civic duty, don't be selfish, and go get your shot Patricia!
Oh, that's right. But the government should force vaccines on people with no long term studies done on them and no informed consent --that should guide clinical practice.
NOBODY but a doctor should ever tell anyone to get a shot. And even then, doctors recommend things. But of course YOU know more than doctors, scientists, and virologists who disagree with you. It never ceases to amaze me how you have NO guilt for recommending somebody take or NOT TAKE a vaccine. I'd never do that. It's the height of hubris and arrogance.
You should have guilt. My dad's house keeper died immediately afterward of a massive heart attack. Two young women we know have ongoing heart issues that have lasted six months. And my husband's friend who had already had it was talked into getting it and has Bell's Palsy for six months than is not resolving. He looks hideous. My father gave me shingles from it. Young people have died. No matter what the odds, I would not advise anyone either way. Nor would I want the responsibility of telling someone not to get it--they should talk to their doctor, check out their own health risks, and act appropriately.
Doctors have to advise you to get it or they'll get sued. That is the insurance driven conventional thing. They won't get sued for giving the CDC advice; they will get sued if they don't do it. And by the way, we have a doctor in our close friend group -- she's not getting it.
Wait - you say nobody but a doctor should ever tell anyone to get a shot - then you say doctors have to advise you to get it or they'll get sued - If that's the case, then a doctor will tell you to get the shot and you will, what?
I've talked to my doctor about it and gone over my concerns with her. She understands my feelings about it. I may change my mind as second generation vaccines come around or the risk changes. She is willing to work with me on therapeutics. I am not overweight and have no health issues, though am somewhat older. She understands my choice to do antibodies and other therapeutics. She did not tell me I was nuts if I didn't get this vaccine. She would not be allowed I'm sure to advise I NOT do it and I wouldn't pin her down that way.
No, thank you. I know too much about how the world works -- especially, *today's* world.
Here's just one nugget for you: "[C]onflicts of interest and biases exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine ." -- Marcia Angell MD
Wow. This post blows me away. Not that is surprises me at all. It's hard to make sense of any of this. And while I would never want the responsibility of telling anyone to take or not take a vaccine, this makes it so difficult to navigate decisions for one's one health. One thing I do know and you are confirming is that there is nothing wrong with questioning the status quo. Anybody on here who criticizes people for doing it needs to think again. They need to answer our questions. Thank you for your post.
Thank you. I was waiting for your well-paid response.
Do you really think that whatever her *public* opinion is now on this vaccine will erase what she said about the state of the entire industry a decade ago, and change my beliefs about what's going on now?
No. As I said at the beginning, I know too much now, for too long, about the progress of the rot at the top of American leadership to do such a thing. In this place, Angell could easily be compromised, now forced to pay penance for her earlier words, or otherwise, a la Don Corleone, made "an offer she can't refuse". I know of many It certainly bears further scrutiny.
In the article you cite, she makes all of the talking points the other pushers make, including shaming people, telling them they're "selfish", without answering basic questions such as, "If this is a 'deadly virus', why are such a small percentage of the total population, primarily elderly with co-morbidities, actually dying from it? Meanwhile, if one healthy 30-year old has a horrible death, why aren't the rest of them getting serious ill and dying? What's different about that person's body or environment? Why aren't we being told about this??" She's too smart not to be aware of these questions. I'm sure there are many more.
I have seen too many people switch positions, especially over roughly the last five years to not suspect something truly insidious is going on. The evidence is copious if you do your reading. Ex Harvard president Larry Summers famously told Elizabeth Warren a while back that she had to go along with the current political mafia to succeed in politics. So here's another nugget:
"After dinner, 'Larry leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice,' Ms. Warren writes. 'I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don't criticize other insiders.'"
Now it's ratcheted up to *forcing* people to say things:
Bernie Sanders once said "All Lives Matter", and formerly argued that excessive immigration adversely impacted the labor market in certain segments of the economy -- he's now reversed those positions. Not to mention all the now screamingly-obvious sheepdogging he's been up to for the Democratic Party since 2016.
So why should I believe Angell says what she does now without being arm-twisted? She did a "bad, bad thing" with that claim about NEJM ... she's gonna pay for it the rest of her life.
In my opinion, the primary purpose of the totalitarian push for 100% acceptance this vaccine, suppressing not only all other medical opinions but all other research over the last year -- the way science is *supposed* to work to deal with a *novel* pathogen -- is this: To normalize bodily-invasive access for future use. They couldn't get it to happen over the last few years with the seasonal flu vaccine, and so now they're pulling out all the stops. They've normalized public acceptance of universal surveillance. Who's now screaming up and down about that evisceration of the fourth amendment?
It isn't Russian trolls that are destroying public trust. It's our own leaders, who "hate our freedoms".
Hello. I didn't quote her, you idiot. She posted on here herself. If she wants to tell people to get vaccinated on here, I presume she will. And I will tell her what I'm telling you: Get your own shot and stop telling other people what to do.
I was replying to "The Anti-Hip" not you. Still, you should stop being selfish and get your shot too! Amusing that you are bothered by someone on the internet suggesting you do something.
The latest numbers from the CDC reveal hospitals have been counting patients who died from serious preexisting conditions as COVID-19 deaths.
Now they are shifting Vaccinated Deaths to Unvaccinated by "NEW RULE"
“For the purpose of this surveillance, (Same excuse they use to skew CO-morbidity deaths as all COVID)
a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person ≥14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine. “
28 days between shots plus 14 days = 42 days . Anything under 42 days is considered an UN vaccinated death. (Majority of Vaccine Deaths occur 2 weeks after Jab.}
And what they've done is expose us to an enormous clinical trial (if they had their way without a control). Long term safety studies have obviously not been done. It's nowhere near how this is done and they don't even know if some of these ADE things are of no concern and read the New York Times. You'll find out even THEY admit the vaccines could cause the virus to mutate into a more lethal form. (Their conclusions after this admission are ludicrous) but there clearly are a plethora of unknowns--they thought it was a sterilizing vaccine and it's leaky. They've been wrong about so much it's not funny. The last thing you should want responsibility for is giving anyone medical advice.
I think unfortunately one of the "successes" of the radical left and the radical left media is they have managed to pigeon hole this "divide" as informed and educated vs. fly-over uneducated racists if not actual white supremacists. And conservatives, even Trump supporters (and vaccine skeptics) come from all walks of life. It's amazing how "smart" people without college degrees are as well. But they have managed to pigeon hole critical thinkers as uneducated idiots spreading "misinformation" they must censor and control. I think Matt agrees with some of this, yet I keep getting the feeling he buys some of their conclusions on "science consensus" and who makes up conservatives and/or Trump supporters. People were not Trump supporters because they loved his personality (though he made us laugh, something leftists never do), but because we saw the critical race, authoritarian, Marxist garbage coming like a freight train. And so did Trump. Not that he was right on every issue, but he knew who they were and he knew what they had in mind. Driving business out of the country, energy dependence, fake (mostly) climate hysteria to control young people, open borders, monitoring bank accounts? Death and capital gains taxes that will not affect big business but will devastate small business? There are people of all walks of live opposing these elitist Marxists. And even Matt seems to buy into this stereotype at least some. They are controlling major spheres of influence: universities, Hollywood, most of the media. Matt understands much of this which I why I support him, but at times he seems to buy into their garbage.
Road testing a novel here? Perhaps a smaller work of fiction? A cornucopia of nonsense and misinformation, packaged in a cute little grievance box. I'll limit myself here to your churlish "commie" talk, which to a certain degree I see is back in fashion, at least here on the TK threads amongst some of the more "exotic" political scientists on board.
"....but because we saw the critical race, authoritarian, Marxist garbage coming like a freight train..." "....There are people of all walks of live opposing these elitist Marxists...."
First off, I should think that any self-respecting marxist would be opposed to any commie pinko identifying as an "elitist" marxist---not just the lady at the dry cleaners, or the Orkin bug guy that stopped by yesterday. There are what, maybe a couple hundred marxists in the U.S. currently? And I'm thinking, or at least hoping, that the motherfuckers are more bourgeois than I am? I believe Stalin either shot or worked to death the last "elitist" marxists. So we don't have to worry about that class of snooty bolshevik, what with their beluga and triple-filtered vodka. But apparently some of these red bastards are barrelling down on us freight train-like. And did you hear what happened? They ran off our entire manufacturing base---overseas! I think it happened last week, at least that's what the report said in the police blotter.
And get this. Some of them are even lurking about down at the Elementary school during recess and telling the kids that they'll be no cooling drafts blowing through the particular corner of hell where they're headed if they don't stop with the hamburgers and the 15-minute showers and get on board with with the notion that the earth is on fire and by god they'll be held accountable if they don't put it out!
But what seems like good news it that they have apparently set up shop in most of the universities and Hollywood, which works fine for me, insofar that it means I probably won't cross paths with them any time soon. Let'em deal with the 18-year olds and they're welcome to the entire Marvel catalog. And the media. Don't get me started on the media which is already as marxist as Trotsky's socks and mostly meshuga most of the time anyway.
" .... one of the "successes" of the radical left and the radical left media is they have managed to pigeon hole this "divide" as informed and educated vs. fly-over ...."
Honest lefties don't believe that BS - your attempt at smearing them qualifies, IMO,
Where are the "honest" lefties? Not on tv or in most of the mainstream press. Read it. Here on substack. There are likely exceptions with lefties, too, but they are not part of the narrative push or you wouldn't be reading Matt.
My point - it is not "radical lefties" who have pigeon holed this "divide" as informed and educated v fly-over - and as for "radical left media" - who dey? let me know so i can read them ...
Just what position is not a radical left position these days and almost all mainstream/left media is doing the above. Except places like here. What is the argument? Matt is writing about it all the time.
It's way too early to see if the vaccines are really effective enough to justify the obvious long term (and even short term) risks. My brother and his wife were vaccinated -- my brother got very sick. Cut to the chase. Here is how it will work for me. Long term problems won't be apparent for at least five years or more. ADE will happen sooner if it is going to. But right now I am not sold on this vaccine. For now, I'll go with antibody treatment and therapeutics because I'm in good health. If the Marek Effect happens and the vaccines cause the virus to escape and become more lethal and the odds change (because they were idiots), I might have to re-evaluate and of course, I will. My father is 89 and got vaccinated, though since he hardly leaves the house, I wasn't sold on it. He's had increasing heart failure and lingering pneumonia since (obviously we can't tell if it's the vaccine) and it shed on me and gave me shingles (too coincidental for my liking). My husband is a bit higher risk but can't bring himself to do it. Yet. But I am also convinced if they don't push this thing to be more deadly that they will have therapeutics working well for most people soon and that might be better for young people and healthy people. So I will wait and see. But I can promise you I will not get vaccinated because you mandate it and it has not a freaking thing to do with politics which was my initial point. Trump supporters are from all walks of life and so are people against this particular vaccine. That is a narrative the mainstream media is getting away with. It's bologne.
Its funny to me how many books and think pieces have come out trying to solve the mystery of the "Trump voter." I know thats not the only thing this book is getting at but still. I live in an area that went for Trump, I know people of all levels of education and income that voted for him. It seems like all these people want to endlessly ponder about what made someone vote for him but they don't want to have an actual conversation with an actual person who voted for him. Why? Are you afraid you might find out that they're not some inbred hick monster straight out of deliverance? Are you afraid you might find that they're...well, shit, just like you?
Gurri's whole book is on the Trump voter before Trump even ran for the Republican nomination. Lots of people think Trump created his voting base, as opposed to that voting base rejecting all of the credentialed candidates and supporting someone who didn't speak down to them.
Right, that base has always been there. We get a movie about it every 10 years, every decade there's a "politician that finally just tells it like it is" movie and everyone loved it until it finally happened in real life. "Wait, maybe this isn't a good premise afterall..."
We were here before Trump, and we will be here after. Trump recognized the opportunity and took it. The idiotic, corrupt Republicans still can’t see it
The interesting part is - from pre-Dem nomination in '16, polls indicated Sanders could have beaten Trump - he didn't speak down to folks either - the stupid Ds picked "basket of deplorables" Clinton ...
Trump was excellent at coming off as pro-America. And perhaps he was, to an extent, but by now it's clear that he was first and foremost, above absolutely everything else, pro-Trump. That's why people hated him so much. He put himself before the country at every single opportunity. Not how a president is supposed to behave.
Guess what-he-or people in his administration and some Senate RS-actually did a good job a president. I voted for Johnson in 16’, but happily voted for Trump in 20. Foreign policy, judges, energy policy, education policy, even criminal justice reform-good stuff was done.
I voted for him and freely admit it. I also voted for Ralph Nader (twice) and will gladly make the case that Donald Trump is actually MORE progressive than either Hillary Clinton of Joe Biden.
I am a college educated citizen and I am horrified at the obnoxious arrogance of the educated class. It really rose to the surface during Covid. Educated people were demanding more and longer lockdowns and were shaming anybody who did not agree. The truth was that they didn’t really want “lockdowns”, they wanted working people like truckers, food workers and delivery services, Amazon and warehouse workers, garbage collectors, nurses, and landscapers to go out to work so that the educated aristocracy could hide at home. Working people kept this country going during the pandemic. I honor all of the blue collar heroes who make up two thirds of the voters in our country. They don’t drive Audis, they don’t belong to country clubs, they choose country music and rock n roll over opera or jazz, but most of them are smart and hard working. Bless them all.
I truly wonder if your sentiment will actually be fully exposed. It's those with jobs that can be done from home that demand so much from others. It's really sickening. My spouse worked through it all!
I think it's overly cynical to think that people wanted lockdowns so they could hide. People thought that lockdowns were the best tool we had at the time to reduce the death toll. Naturally they're going to be passionate about that. Over half a million people did die, including my uncle.
I am sorry about your uncle. But living in the SF Bay area, I disagree about people wanting lockdowns so they can hide. Young WFH people were hiding, while sending older, essential workers out to take their risks. No one thought anything about forcing restaurant workers, restaurant food delivery drives and Amazon drivers from delivering frivolous things. I was asked by an at least 70 year old Instacart driver where something was in my grocery store in April 2020. No effort was made to help the older essential workers stay home. It was entirely by class.
I’m so sorry about your uncle- and thank you for your earlier post. I believe you genuinely care about well-being of others and in the context of the ongoing global debate that piece often gets lost.
I’ve had COVID (Jan 2020) before the doctors even knew what it was. 2 separate docs Unsuccessfully treated me for a URI each w a 10d round of Amoxi. I remained symptomatic for additional 3 weeks post treatment and Doc recently dx’d long-COVID and tested positive for T-cell immunity. out of concern for others I maintain social distancing, practice good hygiene and wear a mask when it makes sense! You won’t see me wearing one while driving in my car without a passenger. Stay safe - do what’s right for you and try not to listen to too much of the noise - I do and it sometimes makes me feel worse than COVID!
Here's the dirty "secret" of the globalism that's (largely) responsible for putting us in this position: You can't compete with global wages while paying local prices.
Globocorps know this. They tell us that we could compete if we were just willing to work harder, but they're lying, and they know they're lying. No matter how hard Americans work, they can't get around the fact that cost of living in China (or wherever) is a fraction of what it is in America.
This is starting to apply to white collar jobs as well (think tech being outsourced to India). The only ones who can never be outsourced are the ones doing the outsourcing, because they're the ones making the decision to outsource or not. Which is terribly convenient for them.
The rich are forcing the poor and middle class into a no-win position, then blaming them for losing.
Rather than continuously debating the nuances of the failure of governance in this country it is time to put such knowledge into action.
With the start of Reagan and then followed by Clinton, Bush2, etc. conscious policy decisions were made which effectively:
1) Decreased investment in the US as witnessed today by failing infrastructure as one symptom.
2) Decreased investment in true material wealth creating industries as witnessed by transferring millions of factory jobs overseas in the name of "efficiency".
3) Rescinding the regulations on finance for highly leverage and speculative betting on markets. Rather than funding wealth creating industries the game turned towards wealth redistribution schemes. That wealth had to come from somewhere. It came from the citizenry of the United States and the taxpayers of the United States.
Stop this continuous whine about "libtards", "Trumpistas", "real Americans", "Nanny State", and all the other snarky bullshit. It's all an act of misdirection. Keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves so that the Royalists can do what they've always done: plunder the Treasury and steal as much wealth as possible.
The only reason such things as Social Security and Unemployment Insurance were ever enacted was out of fear of revolution following successful revolts by communists in Russia and China. When the USSR imploded, it was "the end of history", and that signalled a return to the good old days for the imperial oligarchs who invented and have always ruled this nation. They'll just keep on hollowing it out and misdirecting our attention. There are so many different groups that can be hated based on race, education, religion, region, etc. We're a forever, weapons manufacturer's and pundit's dream of slaves and peasants believing ourselves "free!"
Ha whatever the reason (never thought I would think this way) I want my money!! I want a nice big check for all of the money I’ve paid into SS because as GenX already knows it will be LONG GONE by the time I retire. Actually it’s already gone but I like the illusion.
I agree with you here. Just not about blind acceptance of vaccination. However, not "snarky" buillshit to call this the nanny state and total government control from cradle to grave. If you want to use other words to describe it, go ahead. I would say it was started under the Bush's though.
Excellent take. Same people that want living wages and worker protections here at home are fine with other countries locking workers in factories 12 hours a day 6 days a week with no protections.
Elites in charge. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Justice Coney Barrett was the first non-Ivy League SC justice. Via Notre Dame. The horror.
Snobbery isn't a strong enough term anymore. The pictures of the masked servants straightening the trains of the gowns of the bare-faced Met gala attendees, including the gowns of "self-proclaimed socialists," tells us we have crossed into a whole other place.
So I guess one of the main points of the piece is that in this current age, those of us with degrees look down on and disparage those who don’t have a degree, and think they are unintelligent. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Maybe it’s because I was the first person in my family to obtain a degree, but I don’t see how those with degrees can justify that nonsense. Maybe it’s because my dad was a 20 year Navy guy and my uncle was a 20 year Marine. Maybe it’s because I use “uneducated” plumbers, heating/AC guys, and other such trades people to fix things in my house. They all have way more common sense and innate intelligence than many I know with degrees. They also happen to be very nice, pleasant, real, salt of the earth people.
Hmm, maybe the idea that those with degrees look down on those without is another bit of "fake news"? Is it just a small, but vocal, slice of "elites" - the snobs, that do? OK, so where are the "stats" .... :D
Indeed ! The only humans looking down on *other humans are humans who feel *inadequate about themselves ! I say again, this whole question is MOOT. One cannot accurately divide humanity by means of *any arbitrary "line" - degreed, not degreed, vaxxed - not vaxxed, my religion - not my religion, minority - majority and truly learn *anything that is NOT simply yet another vague generality, often half-true, meant to distract by means of adult name-calling more appropriate to second-graders in a sandbox. "Is too" - "is NOT"; "Can too" - "Can not"
Do people with degrees look down on those without degrees ?
Some do, some do not. NEXT ?
C'mon, Matt, going for the low-hanging fruit with this one ? ;-D
Charles Murray (the Left's Satan) wrote in his book 'Coming Apart' that the upper and upper-middle classes still live "vague ideas that success should be tied to virtues like thrift, discipline, and wisdom" with, for example, lower divorce rates, while publicly proclaiming at the same that these are old-fashioned ideas. He also noted that decades ago the elite use to live among the "poorly educated" in small cities and towns. Now the elite live in the big city high-rises and gated communities totally cut off from the working class world.
I really dislike the terms poorly educated to categorize people as less than. I grew up in a working class environment and worked my way up quite high in the corporate world without a college education. Yes, that was a long time ago and things have changed dramatically. But working class are not stupid and let me tell you their are a lot of people out their with Bachelor and Master degrees that don't have a clue.
Not everyone is suited for college and not because of IQ. People have different interests. I hated school...all of it. I found it stifling and wanted to work outside. Working with a bunch of like minded men outside and sometimes battling the elements were some of the happiest times in my life. And yes, these men I worked with were from all walks of life. Later I hopped on the corporate ladder and, while more lucrative, it was not as fun or satisfying.
We do need more trade schools and schools that teach high-tech fields. You don't need a college degree to do coding.
Finally, Biden is just angry because COVID is not working out as he hoped and is just lashing out. Kind of like his Afghanistan speeches.
Oh, and regarding the vaccines. The jury is still out. Information is changing by the hour.
Yes, regarding rarity today of class and/or education mixed communities. It is quite rare. I happen to be lucky to live in (an urban) one currently, it being an accident of history and geography and what I call "stalled semi-gentrification". It is very rewarding to see upper-middle-class, middle-class, and working-class people regularly talking substantively with their neighbors, at least out of sheer proximal necessity.
You are absolutely correct; but meritocracy demands separation of those who are obedient and follow the rules from those with a brain, a spine or an interest in doing otherwise; so the "bad" children must be stigmatized for life, after they finish up their time sitting in the corner. The system wouldn't work if it were to let everybody live together as equals.
I thought meritocracy is supposed to reward merit, which is legitimate achievement. It's not meritocracy's fault that this has been perverted by easy-As, legacy admissions, race-based everything, and ideology-based back scratching.
Peter Strzok eagerly persecuted ex-CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou, about CIA torture program - five (5) years after his ABC interview -- at orders from St. Obama - to "protect Obama's legacy". Last words that human excrement Strzok told Kiriakou were to "be careful not to bend in prison bathroom..." A high level sadistic psychopath apparatchik now suing government to get his job (and pension) back
And -- a major MYSTERY --- 170++ dead Afghans and 13 US soldiers...
Just HOW a suicide bomber, in densely packed crowd, can kill 183 people?
PS: It turns out that US SOLDIERS ended up killing many by recklessly firing into the crowd of civilians after the bomb went off and they started panicking. Who knows how many they killed this way included in the official toll. Absolutely unconscionable.
There will be a MAJOR effort by corporate media and Pentagon/arms industry to suppress this national shame
Questions With New Reports That US Forces Gunned Down Civilians After Kabul Blast - by Caitlin Johnstone - Caitlin’s Newsletter (substack.com)
>>They’re all but rooting for each other to die now
Man that last sentence was a real gut punch. There's a subreddit called r/HermanCainAward that's all about laughing at unvaccinated people who die from Covid.
Ignorance? I have known plenty of people that have had Covid 19. None that ended up in a hospital, most experienced mild cold like symptoms. I have also know 3 people that were vaccinated and ended up in the emergency room with heart issues. Ignorance is following the crowd blindly. In a recent poll Democrats were found to believe that some where between 25 to 40% of those that had Covid ended up in the hospital, talk about ignorant!
I am not sure. 2 of them were forced to get the vaccine, even though one of them already had Covid and recovered, both were required for entry into college, young men.
One of my former coworkers had a brother who has became blind shortly after the shot and that has been going on for three weeks now. Another one of his relatives became hospitalized with severe swelling. They both had the Pfizer shot. Another one of my coworkers had a daughter in law who was unable to move her arm for almost two weeks after her shot. I believe she said it was the Pfizer vaccine as well. I do not know of anyone who has suffered severe side effects from the Johnson and Johnson. There is a gargantuan amount money involved in this and I would not be surprised to find out some of the vaccines were a lot safer and more effective than others.
Our hyperdrive to demonize The Other in terms of education and class is the iceberg into which the Titanic is being steered.
True merit--knowing how to do things, deal with all kinds of people and situations, and the wisdom to know when and when not to do them--is a worthy goal in life. But college degrees and credentials have little to do with that kind of merit, as reflected on our generally piss-poor Governing and Chattering Class.
WOW - could not agree more. Literally the very thing I write about and am passionate about. I am uneducated, but often "fool" people because I carry myself in a way that seems educated. I am autodidactic. Though I am not formally educated, I love to learn. And I use my learning to try to be the best human I can possibly be. It's as simple as treating others with dignity and empathy.
If you are an autodidact with people skills you are far from uneducated. Self education is education.
Thank you for saying that!
@Joel
From one of the Country's most beloved autodidacts with a grade school education:
" I have never allowed my schooling to interfere with my education."
~ Mark Twain
Wonderful :)
You just can't put it on your resume. But look at colleges and see many are putting their first year students are being taught High School classes in an attempt to bring them up to speed and that's not working either.
Look at DACA the Best of the Best - 6% College Graduation Rate and look at the Billions spent on them in grants in attempt to make a point which alludes me.
Well, you CAN put it on your resume... in the positions you have held and more importantly -the responsibilities you have managed.
It's all in presenting the self-taught skills and disciplines in a way that showcases "what you can offer" for their investment in you.
FWIW, autodidacts tend to have varied and interesting resumes -to the unhip it may appear scattered. To someone who has a fully functioning brain it appears as "a pile of the things we like in an employee".
Steer clear of jobs where the interviewer says, "Wow, you're all over the place... I see a lot of jumping around." -That's a hallmark sign of someone who stays in their rut and doesn't bother with critical thinking or innovation, or personal growth, or ingenuity.
That means that the person interviewing you is an average dimwit -and if a company has THAT person hiring they're lacking solid leadership. They're into mediocrity.
HR Departments, in my opinion, are very weird places. Back in the dark ages I had interviewed at Little Caesars to fix pizza ovens, something I could have done in my sleep. Interviews went well. Finally there were only 2 of us left under consideration. That's when they handed me a thick psychological evaluation questionnaire. As I'm reading this I'm thinking, "This is so I can fix pizza ovens?" Halfway through I came to this lovely question, "What amount do you think is permissible to steal from your employer? a. $50, b. $500, c. $5,000. No zero though.
I spent the rest of my allotted test taking time drawing a nice big, block capitol, fully shaded FUCK YOUR DIPSHIT JOB on that page. Then I handed it in, smiled politely & told them to have a nice day. Needless to say I didn't get the job.
For some reason it all reminded me of a "test" I had to take in Religion class during my senior year at my Catholic high school. One of the stranger questions said, "When you come home from work and your wife doesn't have your dinner ready do you,
a. to c. some kind of punishment,
d. nothing because you don't care.
I checked d because I couldn't see myself caring. The next day our guidance counselor made me stay after school for a 15 minute lecture about how "I should be very careful who I marry." During his "counseling" all I could think was, "Geez teach, I can't even get a date and you're telling me to worry about who I marry. Are you nuts?"
Actually it turned out he was nuts. About 3 years after I graduated I saw in the local newspaper that our guidance counselor was arrested for arson.
That was about the time I was beginning to realize that the shit coming out of people's mouths doesn't always resemble the shit that's in their heads. And yes, I was a bit slow on the up take.
I have just looked up current numbers (others out of date) and it's 12.5% have BA or higher DACA population. today.
lovely theory. in the real world, the fact is that credentialed education has been monetized and, in the process, has been deliberately made preëminent whenever and wherever the circumstances favor that-- which means, practically speaking, wherever those with power and influence can make this the de facto course.
of course there are and shall always be autodidacts. I'm an example. I'm also an example of how far short such a status falls in so many realms.
We want a great many professions certified for good reason-- pilots, medical doctors, engineers, people who exercise police authority, chemists and many others are only a few of the many kinds of people who should have to pass certification and obtain standard licenses to practice.
the trends are very emphatically in the direction of greater, not less, certification, or "credentialism" on steroids.
I _am_ formally educated--that, indeed, is how I developed my abiding skepticism of so many credentialed "experts" in many a field of inquiry, of study.
the area of study to which I'm now most devoted and have the longest sustained interest and intellectual investment is one of these which excludes the self-taught. It's for all practical intents and purposes a field of academic study which is in all respects very like a union's "closed-shop" system and it has suffered for this in the insanely insular character of those who are its Mandarins--fools who live in sublime complacency and have at their mercy poor, unsuspecting beginners who, knowing little, trust too much and take for granted what they're told--one of the academic world's greatest and longest-running intellectual frauds upon the trusting student. But it endures because it is so thoroughly and single-mindedly protected by the intitiated.
P.S.
Emerging Tech
( https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/social-credit-system/ )
We’re closer to China’s disturbing ‘Social Credit System’ than you realize
By Luke Dormehl
April 22, 2018
_______________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taNCL5tXFPE
"We are building a religion, we are building it bigger
We are widening the corridors and adding more lanes
We are building a religion, a limited edition
We are now accepting callers for these pendant keychains
To resist it is useless, it is useless to resist it
His cigarette is burning, but he never seems to ash
He is grooming his poodle, he is living comfort eagle
You can meet at his location, but you'd better come with cash
[Chorus]
Now his hat is on backwards, he can show you his tattoos
He is in the music business, he is calling you, dude
______________
Cake
John McCrea – vocals, acoustic guitar, keyboards, percussion
Vince DiFiore – trumpet, keyboards, backing vocals
Xan McCurdy – electric guitar, keyboards, backing vocals
Gabriel Nelson – bass guitar, keyboards, backing vocals
Todd Roper – drums, percussion, Moog synthesizer, backing vocals
Tyler Pope – keyboard, electric guitar ("Opera Singer", "Short Skirt/Long Jacket", "Arco Arena")
Unfortunately I have met many “educated” people who stopped learning at 22. I applaud your thirst for knowledge. I would take an autodidact over a college education any day!! Or as my beloved Twain purportedly said, “I never let my education get in the way of my learning”
Frank Zappa said something like “Screw school-go to your library and do it yourself”.
Don't get me goin' on Zappa! Here's my fav... ’'Government is the entertainment wing of the military-industrial complex.’’
My favorite Zappa quote: "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." I do miss him, but the music lives on.
Zappa was a provocateur and philosopher. Loved that man.
More Zappa quotes, please. Really brightens up the ‘stack.
“There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.” —Frank Zappa
Not everyone is Will Hunting. Most will benefit greatly from an interactive education.
Eminently reasonable, sir! ... and I'll bet you never listened to the Mother's of Invention!
Now Elon sez the same thing.
You and I are in the same boat. I dropped out of college because I was already being presented with job opportunities in my field of study, so I opted out of racking up [more] student loan debt and jettisoned the notion of credentials as the sole path to self-worth and wealth. Although I’m a writer and filmmaker now, I plan to learn more of the skills whose value will likely increase as the American empire continues its toboggan run towards the grave. Things like self-defense, growing food, sewing, repairing electronics, responsible firearm use, etc. I’m not a survivalist, I swear, but I do think it behooves me as a woman to acquire some earthier skills. I also love to learn, and most research says genetic predisposition imbues us with that craving. Here’s to library cards, deep focus, and Google-fu!
My experience at University was largely the teach to test method of indoctrination. True learning is self-motivated inquiry. I applaud lifelong learners, they are the unsung heroes who help to sustain the intellectual and moral fabric of society.
Shades of my favorite autodidact (and iconoclast):
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
I’m not a survivalist either, but I’m going to be using and learning more so called blue collar skill so that I can take better care of my family as things get worse.
I’d love to learn more about your writing and filmmaking. are you writing on substack?
If you’re not writing on Substack, why not?
I encourage everyone to start their own for their own sake.
Agreed... to quote Bullwinkle.... I attended "What's a Matter U"
I’m the same and I get crapped on by my over-credentialed family who insist I should’ve gone to college despite me out-earning all of them in a blue collar trade. I notice many college grads love their self-imposed intellectual silos.
I'd hazard a guess that it's not about money and that they think some of your views might be moderated by higher education, and maybe you'd be easier to be around. I'm pretty sure my mother in law would be less of a hippy wackjob if she went to college, for example, provided she studied something real, like biology.
I'm pretty sure the intent of college shouldn't be to moderate views.
But don't doubt that is what has happened over the past several decades.
@Notyours
Correct. It was once intended to teach *all views, and then allow the students, via examination with logic and critical thinking (also thin on the College "menu" these days) to determine for themselves *which of the "views" under study had most value to themselves.
The purpose of college, insofar as it still has one, is for personal growth and expansion. Ideally, a well-rounded College education also has nothing *specifically to do with getting a job either, but those days are long gone. There is no longer any such thing as a Wide Ranging College education.
I know a young lady, first in her family to have graduated from College. She was justifiably proud of herself and insisted upon showing me her College grade transcripts. Her Degree was in Microbiology. Her entire curricula was hard sciences, in which she did very well. But, zero literature, zero philosophy, zero Western Civ, zero Eastern Sources, zero Anthropology and the so called "soft" sciences, which teaches one how Microbiology fits *into the world we inhabit, and why.
Sadly, what the young lady had, was a Trade School education in Hard Sciences, at College Degree prices. Neither she, nor any of her classmates, were getting what they were paying for ...... a College Education.
The College Education once focused upon well-rounded discovery of
what *is out there in the world that one might further pursue, potentially as a life calling. It once had less than nothing to do with improving one's propaganda skills, or salesman-like arts of persuasion except in classes like Rhetoric for orators and politicians, which is also no longer part of a Trade School degree posing as a College Education.
Now, a "degree" results from a full four years of doing nothing but "teaching to the test".
College should be about learning to think. Critically. STEM curricula is turning out students with narrowed world views who are more concerned with wealth attainment than attaining a healthy experience of themselves and the world at large.
Agreed. I can't say for certain when it began to change, but when I matriculated in the late 80's it was going on. I've always been anti-establishment/authority, so didn't tow the line of counselors in order to claim a sheepskin with specific classes in a specific order, and instead took those courses that interested me, from philosophy to microbiology.
My late saint of a father, to his great credit, humored me in that regard by paying for most of them, despite having been on the receiving end of much of my rebellious nature during that time.
I enjoy reading much of what you write about your time on P-3s hunting subs from Japan, as my father's time there was contemporaneous, having been a flight engineer on the same birds.
Truly wish he were still around (not only) to ask if he recalls an Irishman meeting your self descriptions on these pages.
Cheers!
It often (not always) can prevent people from holding extreme views. Another example: if you take even the intro macroeconomics course, you're going to be far less likely to subsequently adopt the view that there's some sort of international banking conspiracy, because you understand the basics of how banking works. Fields which seem to churn out marxists are another matter of course.
I would agree in theory - as long as all views, even "extreme" ones, are allowed to be aired and discussed. My concern is that they are not.
I call them Race War Profiteers.
I guess but I was told by an uncle I am not qualified to critique CRT as I never took postmodernism in college. .I’m just a reactionary
Higher ed has a lot of problems, but you're overstating it. Study engineering and you won't get much of the social justice madness.
Study engineering in red state maybe
That used to be the case, but sadly even hard sciences are being corrupted.
Being formally educated doesn't mean you're actually intelligent, but it does mean you 'drive the right car.'
If you want to see a parking lot that would make an NBA G league team jealous, check out the central administration lot at any big city district.
Lol, true
Not to worry. This world is full of highly educated derelicts. I too pursue post-institutional education endeavors. My hobby. DO NOT go to our higher education system for knowledge: They've forgotten that their job was to INFORM; not persuade. Wrong goal.
@Dan
That is what I hear, yes. I was lucky enough go to College during the '70s before the entire meaning and structure when to hell converting to an indoctrination center.
Well said but the merits of autodidactism (sp) can be overrated. The rigor needed to be truly educated usually comes with guidance and incentives to bolster that knowledge with adjacent studies that might not seem to be relevant at first glance. I would say in some way we are suffering tyranny of googol autodidacts right now who think they know everything because they can look it up. Their knowledge is superficial at beat. On the other hand, we have real medical experts now who are imposing decisions that have real life and death impacts in economic terms but can’t be bothered to lower themselves to consider such middle brow issues
Totally agree!!
I am 100% in support of education and applaud those who had the grit to earn one. I too am weary of google readers who see a headline and tell you they “did their research.” I now read research papers regularly for my career, which I am self taught in too. I can tell you that reading research is insanely difficult and even an educated person will find it challenging to understand. Doesn’t mean an education is worthless though! I had amazing mentors and teachers who provided me a private informal “education.” Educated or not, you have to WANT to learn. when you are a learner, then you can understand the subjects and speak to them. A learner (educated or not) is far more trustworthy because they will not just Google read and skim everything. They will actually read research and try to understand it, because they seek knowledge, wisdom, and truth. I think the mentality is the main difference
I would definitely agree that medical school/training is an exception to the benefits of autodidactism.
@Stxbuck
Precisely SO ! We are all arguing "apples and oranges" ! Not one statement we make will apply to ALL schools, and to ALL students ! It depends upon the school, and it depends upon the student. A student that just sits down with that kind of passive attitude, will not do as well as the student who realizes that it on *us to make our College experience *matter in our lives ! The College has the libraries. The College has the labs. The College has the instructors, and the College once had the exposure to the "free flow of ideas". If one avails themselves of ALL of these things, organizes and steers one's *own experience, College makes up the box of *Tools ! This is the active approach to Education, as opposed to the "o.k. I found the right chair in the correct classroom - make me a genius - *passive approach.
I think the merits of autodidacticism are underrated! There’s almost nothing you can learn in college that can’t be learned on your own.
Attaboy, brother. Keep on.
"It's as simple as treating others with dignity and empathy."
Yes, it really is that simple. I know lefties who fall all over themselves talking about how much they CARE, and in the next sentence will make a scathing remark about someone they perceive to be lower on the social status totem pole. My lefty sister simply cannot have a conversation about any political issue without devolving to FUCK YOU! within about 30 seconds. But they CARE...
There is a massive element of mental illness in their thought process. It's one of destruction of anything that counters their view. They are a closed system and have not learned centuries old lessons. Hubris meet Nemesis.
I am highly educated but view most highly educated folks as boring and elitist and I usually don't trust them much. I believe the common person is wiser than most highly educated folks.
Correction: You are not formally indoctrinated.
I am now visually compromised but fifteen years ago we taught our then commerce student the whys and wherefores of indoor plumbing and I still trust trust him with indoor plumbing. When we moved from Montreal to a more rural environment we needed a plumber with more math and education to fix our external plumbing and needed a real plumber with the education to understand the angles needed for drainage to keep the water out of our basement. Plumbers need math and science in 2021 and that is why our plumbers now require a post secondary education.
In the words of my 18 year old self. Don't trust plumbers over 30.
Education now is a lifelong commitment and America elects lawyers and politicians who think they learned all they needed to learn at 25 and America is headed down the toilet. I am 73 and and worry I will never learn what I need to learn today never mind a decade from now.
The conservative mindset will destroy us all.
I started working on computers 55 years ago and know my education makes me as useless as prehensile tail for our great ape species in keeping up with the technological universe.
I'm willing to bet a loonie against a timbit that you're self employed. I say this b/c my experience w/ corporate hiring for the higher wage jobs have educational requirements at the top of their want ads, and for internal promotions.
Hope you prove me rong, but I doubt it.
I am autistic and was diagnosed as lazy because I could not perform academically and was blessed with a PhD vocabulary and a genius at logic.
I married a very wise and wonderful woman who taught me to love myself. Only in Canada do we bet timbits and loonies so I will raise you a poutine that Joel speaks from truth not manufactured consent.
Fair question. Never been self employed. I work hard and make six figures, live quite comfortably in California. Single income family of five. Not bad for an uneducated goof ball :)
Don’t know what a timbit is but assume you are right about corporate jobs but there is plenty of room for thenuncredentialed at midsize private business. $30 to 100 million to do quite well. In fact quote often they are the backbones of those companies. Having run a few of those I know. They don’t fit in well with the corporate profile but have strong skills. Though believe me they do present a mangement challenge
Sorry for the ref; if you read the whole (punny, ain't I? lol) thread you'll see what they are.
Here's my point:
I never even considered co's in $30M to 100M range and that's my bad. I'm really happy you made a go of it.
What part do you play in your co?
I manage these companies, usually for Private Equity who acquired them from the Founder and work through the transition. And you are right as the people I describe are often very intelligent and black belt level at their field of expertise but are lacking in other basic skills that would make them valuable at a larger entity. It goes to my point that autodidacts often do not take into account supporting and adjacent knowledge that might not appear to apply to their specialty but is necessary for them to succeed beyond their area of expertise.
Timbits are donut holes. Canada needs about 350,000 new Canadians each and every year for a generation. Because we are a US Colony they dictate how we get immigrants. We will take all the Hondurans, Guatemalan, El Salvadorans and Haitian refugees if we can get them landed in Canada.
Every business and industry where I live has a we are hiring sign out. They are building everywhere and we need workers and their families for our economy that is running according to plan. The only thing that didn't go according to plan is that Covid left us 400,000 people short of our two year target for new Canadians.
Abolish the colleges, I say. Expensive ways of getting a bad education but they are good for maintaining and enhancing unwarranted class divisions. How many well-educated morons and incompetents have I known?
Have you taken a college exam in the field you're studying and passed? Or perhaps quite a few of them given the typical field of study requires many exams. If not, you're probably just deceiving yourself.
Good grief, I know and work with plenty of people that passed their college exams, and are thus credentialed that are truly imbeciles. If you made this statement 30 to 40 years ago it would be accurate, not today.
@don lovell
Bullseye ! Yes. And, even back then, it surprised me to find that less than 2% of College Graduates actually ended up *working in the same field for which they took their major. Simply reflecting the fact that, when you are *not going to a "Trade School" it is the experience of broad-reaching exposure to education that has the value.
Self-deception certainly is a fear of mine. That is why I try to stay humble and keep reading and learning!
As you say, whether or not your (or my) self image is accurate or the product of self-deception probably doesn't matter much. This fear can be excellent motivation keeping us learning and reading on a wide range of topics. I have an engineering degree, but my exposure in school to other topics was minimal. 30 years out of grad school, I still oscillate between feelings of inadequacy due to my utter lack of formal education in regard to art, literature, history, etc. and the belief that, having read widely and continuously on these topics, I may perhaps be drawing even with the more formally educated. In any case, the process is enjoyable. And, if the skills developed help with better navigating personally and professionally and understanding more clearly what is the right thing to do, so much the better. What is the downside?
So agree. If your water pipes burst the plumber is the smartest guy in the room and maybe only has an 9th grade education.
This reminds me of something I read about Qanon. People with Ph.Ds tend to be the most likely to believe this stuff while right down the line people with less education tend to be more skeptical.
Also, while people with 4 years of college tend to be the most likely to get Covid vaccines, among the least likely are -- guess -- people with Ph.Ds.
Finally, one study demonstrated that when people with different levels of education are presented a problem and produce a wrong answer, Ph.D holders tend by far to be the most resistant to changing their conclusion when presented with proof that they erred.
"People taking the survey were on the honor system, with no way to make sure people who claimed to have Ph.D. degrees actually have them." https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/
Well, of course; education equals indoctrination, the more education, the more indoctrination until you actually believe despite all evidence to the contrary that what you do is important...not.
Reminds me of something great. Hawking, the person buried between Newton and Darwin, always disparaged IQ tests.
If that doesn’t tell us something about education and learning, I don’t know what would. Haha.
I suspect that most competent plumbers today have a significant amount of post high school training and very few dropped out of high school at 16. Plumbing is not as easy as it looks.
Plumbing is useful work and saves a lot more lives than the medical industrial complex and infinitely more than Wall Street and the legal and accounting rackets, let alone, the War racket.
Yes. A master plumber has several years of technical training, apprenticeship and licensing exams under his belt. Almost always his.
But what about post-modern critical theory? Sure he may be a competent plumber, but he's still a cultural barbarian. Probably even thinks there are only two genders because he fits male to female couplings.
LOL!
Of course. I was just pointing out that plumbers are not untrainef
I wasn't making fun of you or your comment.
You do make a wonderful point that I suspect escapes the notice of those unacquainted with real labor (and the truth is, very few of us labor for a living). Unlike the Marxist conceits taught in universities, labor has great variability - particularly in terms of skilled labor.
Even Lasch, being a former leftie, is overly fond of the labor theory of value. LTV is a powerful rhetorical device; sadly, it is useless as an analytical tool.
Funny! Thanks for the laugh. :-)
"[C]ollege degrees and credentials have little to do with that kind of merit [knowledge, wisdom, etc.]"
But it's worse than that. "Education and class" is a proxy for intelligence among the elite ... but nearly *all* in our society look down, morally, on those of low (analytical, social, etc.) intelligence.
Intelligence, like many other human characteristics, is largely immutable. Our continuing to treat it as a *moral* attribute, as some kind of "bad choice" that can be truly be overcome by effort -- now THAT'S a problem.
I'd say the educational level of the Taliban, who kicked our asses, is considerably below that of the best and brightest of the US elite, whether political, military or those in the surveillance or weapons industries, and they did it at a fraction of the cost, though with admittedly far smaller profits for the select few on our side.
As a Taliban official told an American one, "You had all the clocks, we had all the time."
@Mr. Nola
GOOD one !
Fuck, that’s a great quote.
No kidding. It perfectly captured both the reality of the war and our naive belief that technology is the answer to all things. Maybe 10 years ago, I saw a magazine, maybe Popular Mechanics, that said we had invented a new weapon, one that could shoot shoot around corners in close combat, that would win the war.
The fact is, we chose a war we couldn't win, one against an indigenous population, where we couldn't readily identify the enemy, instead of one we couldn't lose; killing bin Laden, crippling AQ and leaving. From Oct. 7, 2001, to the end of that year, when bin Laden was already gone, we had 12 deaths. Had we gone after him in Tora Bora, our deaths would likely have been no more than 100, but we let him go. While I can't prove it, I wouldn't be surprised Bush did it on purpose just to have a bogeyman. In any event, everyone who died after early 2002 at the latest, died a pointless death, and no one will ever be held accountable.
@m.t. nola
GREAT comment ! Yes. As a bombardier during Vietnam, I had to be "checked out" on all the "spiffy" new weapons. We had, at that time, a rocket that may have been the inspiration for the weapons to which you refer with the ability to go around corners. No need to remind *you that "Charlie" lived and based themselves out of incredibly sophisticated tunnel systems, at least in the South. The military created us a rocket that, no kidding, could fly into caves (in the rare cases that caves actually formed the entrance into the tunnels.) The rockets could follow the contours of the tunnel curvature, without ever hitting the walls on either side, or the ceilings and floors above and below. The rockets would proceed into the tunnels until they detected concentrations of human urine that indicated enemy bathrooms (the Head), at which point they would explode.
SO, the enemy, rather than spending Pentagon style money to *combat these highly sophisticated weapons, simply started pissing into buckets,
and hanging the buckets in the trees *outside the entrance to their cave compounds !
So, we had *both the technology to *build such weapons, and the abject ignorance to use such weapons in THAT kind of an application ! ;-D
I was dumb enough to have served there, so for the last nearly 20 years I was simply waiting for what I knew was going to happen. Somehow, our glorious elites managed a bigger cluster fuck than they achieved in what Kenny Rogers sang about in "that old crazy Asian war."
Or Pete Seeger’s “Waist Deep in the Big Muddy”!
You were not dumb. Many people were drafted or believed the govt. Anti-War protest were because of the draft, not because of principles. College exempted.
No, I was dumb, but I took my stupidity and learned my lesson, so not all was lost. As for the anti war protests being only anti draft and not principled, you're simply wrong. Making a flat statement like that is just an effort to deny the rightness of the anti war crowd, just as we were about these last 20 years, where thousands died and trillions were borrowed and spent on wars not in the national interest and foisted on us largely by people who, if they were old enough, dodged the draft for a war, Vietnam, that they supported. Of course, some of them, as Dick Cheney said, had other priorities, those priorities being themselves, as per usual for narcissists.
Though there was much intellectualizing I knew many whose inspiration came from the looming draft. Would like to think it was otherwise, but why no major protests against war since? There weren't but half a dozen of us outside the gates of CENTCOM in 2001. My husband, a drafted member of UBC (who has died from AO) was asked by a professor why he was too stupid to go to college and avoid it? I think a lot who who used deferments later said they were principled. Of course there is always Senator Blumenthal to confuse things by saying he was in country when he was not.
It was both. Women and seniors (including my mother) also protested.
lost all the battles, won the war
The VC and the NVA did not lose all the battles/firefights; most, but not all. It was typical practice to report enemy losses as always greater than any we suffered. The 173rd Airborne got their asses thoroughly chewed up early in the war and simply covered it up by lying even more than usual about the number they killed. Besides, a metric that considers deaths as significant in such wars is irrelevant, as it presumes that their capacity to accept deaths, in their own country, is not greater than a force fighting 8,000 miles from their nation. They live there; we do not, eventually that is the deciding factor, lacking a government we support that has little support among the populace, as was the case in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Never believe anything you hear from the military, never. They know full well that a man dressed in a uniform, covered in pretty colored ribbons, most of which are glorified Boy Scout badges, and with stars on his shoulders, is given nearly free rein to tell one whopper after another.
I'd hope the latest fiasco in Afghanistan, one which exposed nearly 20 years of utter BS, should break our habit of believing these professional liars.
@m.t. nola
When your "measure" for how well the war is going is body count, you KNOW you did not go into Vietnam with any *actual goal. You cannot measure your success relative to a goal, when there IS no goal (that you can reveal to the public).
I just read as the Russian revolution was firing up the Tsar was worried about the quality of epaulettes. Don't you think all governments do this in wars? Give free reign to the fellows with the best outfit?
Made 'dumb' by the Patriotic Outrage most Americans felt post 9/11. What made us even dumber was failing to recognize the same in the 'enemy'.
I share that last sentiment, but fear it wont happen. Look at the extraordinary efforts underway to prop up these fuck ups, putting them on TV as experts. Whether it's disgraced former generals or neocons, we were treated to an orgy of their "expert analysis" recently. Maybe it's a last gasp of a dying elite sort of thing, but these monsters have a way of hanging on.
I'm quite certain your first paragraph is correct; the addiction to no cost militarism of putting all the real cost on a small segment of the society and their families, while the rest of us go shopping with our tax cuts, seems to be a winning formula for endless war, even as that policy is equally effective at destroying this nation from within by pursuing policies that promote the empire as it neglects the nation.
Right now, the world is down to two significant nations; us and the PRC, and of the two, theirs has by far the more clear thinking and long term planning leadership, while we continue seeing the world as one we can somehow control with a military that has won but one war since WWII, that being Gulf War I where we faced a third rate military, ensconced in static positions in open desert, with no air cover, just waiting to be annihilated. Remarkably, professional military men thought that this had been proof that we had solved the mystery of war.
Now that is a scary fucking thought, one that maybe combat virgin politicians should feel, but not professional military men.
If you look at a globe of the world, two things stand out immediately; the Eurasian continent, home of most of the world's largest economies, is the dominant landmass, and is actually connected to resource rich Africa, while the American continents are basically remote and isolated. These geographical facts, with the PRC on the important land mass and using that as the underpinning of their BRI, and the US on the least important one and foolishly playing its military game of garrisoning the world and trying to counter the PRC with it, while the PRC leaders quietly go about their economic expansion both at home and abroad, make the outcome all but certain; a bipolar world, if we can accept it, but one where the Chinese are first among equals.
I don't see how it ends any other way, unless we start a war with them out of pique.
At some point, I'd like to have it dawn on our elites, that while the PRC economic growth was likely to happen anyway, that their short term policy of opening up trade with the PRC, of granting them PNTR, all to really just boost short term profits for US based multinationals, but in the name of greater friendship between us and the PRC, was largely responsible for this passing of the torch. How I'd love to see someone from our media pose this question to our elites, but they'd probably think it would be rude to do so, and besides, they'd then lose all access to all the serious people in D.C.
"Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven't got: a diploma." Professor to the Scarecrow, from the "Wizard of Oz" (1939)
Correct. The role of the University must be reevaluated
@Madjack
The University is no longer a bastion of Higher Learning.
Sadly, it is now nothing more than a Diploma Mill.
And prospective employers are aware of that fac.
For a brief period I worked as a term paper ghost writer through a “broker.” You wouldn’t believe how many college students a) use this service and b) can barely read and write. It was…deeply depressing.
😮k not sure why I’m so shocked by this and yet…
@TD
Depressing as well as fully *appalling ! To think that someone, either the students or the parents, are paying TOP DOLLAR to "educate" people who cannot locate Canada on an unmarked map of North American following
"graduation" is simply harrowing. These are our leaders of tomorrow !
But cheer up, even the Ivies are "dumping" the requirement for SATs before college entry. Now, your smart kids lose out waiting on the dummies, and the overall level of education drops for the *same reason !
You're right but I wouldn't call it maturity, more like domestication.
And keeps loan servicers flush w $$$$$ which in turn lobbies the gov to put more money into student loan programs which enables universities to hike tuition which requires borrowing more $$$
@LorriAnn
Right ! So right ! Essential to the definition of "Diploma Mill" these days, yes.
Well said.
Thanks kindly, eassae. Being able to comment on Matt's reporting makes me look smarter than I am :-)
I describe the "Chattering Class" as the "administrator-class".
They're terrible negotiators, terrible at being flexible, terrible at most things except the comfortable walls of the rut they live and operate in.
They think hanging a BLM sign on their house means they can vote for someone like Biden and all will be fixed.
You know, like slapping a "hang in there" poster up inside their cubicle.
Matt, it's much more complex. Everything you address is a symptom, not a root cause.
The abject failure of college education arises out of a misunderstanding of what a college degree means and who needs them. In a factory of 1,000 workers, there are probably 15 people whose college education has some value. That's my upper-limit estimate. We observed that these people made more money than those without college degrees, and decided that if everybody just got college degrees then everyone would make more money. That's not the way it works. You first need to create positions requiring college degrees, not throw college degrees at positions. So, everyone was told "Go to college." And loaned the money to do so, without ever examining whether the degree had any commercial value, or even if the individual should go to college at all.
People were told to "follow your dreams," and no worse advice was ever given. "I want to be a marine biologist!" sounds good. What are your realistic prospects of getting a job in the field? Close to zero. A degree in accounting comes with a job at the end. Invented disciplines such as intersectional geriatric Innuit and learning-disabled pregnant East Absurdians get loans. The politicians boast about helping everybody get college degrees and, and when the whole thing blows up, Ronald Reagan gets blamed. Or curmudgeonly old white men. Or anybody but the public school teachers and the parents who failed to teach their children financial literacy, and the numbskull government clerks look great while chaining our children to a lifetime of debt.
We don't need a lot of college graduates. I have a bachelors in Spanish and Music, a Masters in high-energy laser physics, and a medical degree from a German University. My brother in law is an elevator mechanic. His net worth is many times mine. I should have skipped college and become a plumber.
Physical therapists decided that they would make more money if they got Doctorates. So, the entry-level degree is a doctorate. That does nothing to increase the need for physical therapists nor the money to pay for their services. Pharmacists followed suit. The entry-level degree is a PharmD. That creates no new money to pay for their services, just shoved more money into colleges' pockets.
We graduate people with estimable degrees in aromatherapy or gender studies and when they are lucky they get promoted to barista five years after graduation. Life is about choices, informed choices, and parents, teachers and federal loan officers hide information from those seeking degrees. When they wake up to reality, few of them recognize the moral hazard to which they had succumbed. Instead, they blame baby boomers (I'm one) and uneducated stupid right wing bigots, society, and look everywhere but a mirror. I've been told on-line multiple times I'm useless and should die to get out of the way of the deserving.
I've devoted the last 20 years of my life to working with entrepreneurs, coaching them through how to turn their life experiences into jobs they own. Regardless of race, creed, sex, gender identity or anything else, those that put in the work reap the rewards. The last time I was charged out to a client as a management consultant I was billed at $500/hour. I gave that up to help those who had been crucified on the cross of "progressivism." Millenials assume I am uneducated because I extoll the virtues of entrepreneurism. That means I'm white, male, a racist, a sexist, an homophobe, hate all foreigners, and the only reasons that I fail to agree with every jot and tittle of one of these Masters of the Universe's wise pronouncements about his or her moral superiority are ignorance, stupidity or malice. I posted widely on the coronavirus in January 2020 as soon as I learned that Taiwan had closed its borders. The WHO was venerated, and I was banned from many platforms for pointing out that this is an extraordinarily contagious common cold virus. We needed to focus all protection efforts on the most vulnerable: the elderly and obese, and leave everyone else alone until we had more information. I'm still shunned for advising people not to get a vaccination until they have talked to their family physician if they are under 20, or pregnant, or immune-compromised, or have an autoimmune disease. None of these people should be vaccinated by anyone other than a physician. I am fully vaccinated, had breakthrough COVID, and two hospital stays exposed me to how much Kool Aid nurses have downed.
COVID19 is the gift that can't stop giving. Remember bending the curve in two weeks? Now a college in Connecticut has 100% of staff and students vaccinated and mandates they wear masks outdoors, where it is almost impossible to get infected. There is no end to the lockdown, and that's exactly what the authoritarians want.
My wife has two masters degrees. She became a happy plumber.
It’s better to be a plumber who also appreciates literature or history as opposed to a history major (myself) who sucks at plumbing!
The best quip I ever heard was the one about Diogenes and Alexander the Great.
Diogenes chose to live the life of a dog but was seen to be the happiest, funniest and wisest man on Earth. He didn't need to appear on Jeopardy to prove his smartness. He spoke truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Alexander said to Diogenes if he were not Alexander the Great he would choose to be Diogenes.
Diogenes retorted if he were not Diogenes he would choose to be Diogenes.
That joke is as funny and painful as it was 2500 years ago.
I seem to recall a conversation reported by a contemporary of Alexander asking if there was anything he could do for Diogenes, who answered, 'Yes, you can stand aside, you're blocking my sun.'
Haha ask me about this right now while I’m STILL trying to find a plumber to install the new kitchen faucet that mocks me from the closet!!!
Have you heard of YouTube? I'm serious. I'm a licensed plumbing/heating contractor (been outta the game for decades, but still am 'Handy Man With Tools Of Steel!') and I'm telling you that a faucet replacement looks a L O T harder to do than it is. Hit me back if you want YT links, or guidance on to how to do it.
Okay so this is the story - I bought my condo in Dec2019 - then got COVID in Jan.
Last year when I couldn’t get a plumber I decided to try it myself! Here’s what happened: when this building was renovated whoever installed faucet decided to get a 4hole w no deck plate (soap dispenser side spray handle and faucet) only black or other dark finish will match. The cabinets are low so the spout/overall height cannot be more than 11 13/16 inches. The holes were cut so far apart that a standard deck plate won’t fit which means I have to get plugs for at least 2 (ugly) because the same set up for 4 (soap spray etc) is too hard to find I can get the same one (that I hate anyway) or I could cut and spray paint a piece of PVC big enough to work as a deck plate I don’t have the tools to do that. The original faucet is blocked (not the line) from 15yrs of hard water through a cheap faucet. Except for that All of my water pressure is fine. So you’re right, the install would prob be easier than finding the right faucet. The 3 i managed to find can be installed without a deck plate but I finally accept the fact that I will have to cap at least one hole if I want a decent faucet but. Due to supply chain issues 2 of the 3 are not available until early 2022. I could just live with it until I save enough $ to re-do the whole kitchen and in the meantime just keep using the side spray instead of the faucet. The bathtub diverter is a whole other issue and I’m not going to attempt that.
It sounds like you have a wide spread kitchen faucet. They're often used in premium homes, they can go from 10" to 12" apart.
Take some pics w/ your phone and send them to me:
- a shot of the sink (if you got a ruler, lay it in front so I can see the scale)
- a shot under your sink. I want to see the water connections. There should be 2 valves down there, and I want to see how the connection's made
jim7145 at gmail.com and I'll get back to you.
I've installed hundreds of kitchen faucets; it's not a big deal.
It's an often nasty job, but there are few things more satisfying than successfully performing plumbing repairs on your own house.
Stop it now! You are all rubbing salt in the wound. 😃
My wife has a PhD and married someone who failed every grade till he was too old for high school. I am 73 and maybe next year I will learn to tie my shoes.
Listen - I wish I was a plumber! I’ve been trying to get one to my house for 8 months to replace a kitchen faucet and a diverter in my bathtub. I’m told these are both small jobs and apparently so small that licensed plumbers are too busy to take. One told me he can get to it in January! I’m seriously considering trade school!!!
Same here. Money isn't good enough for them. I sense some serious inflation on the horizon.
First of all, you DO NOT need a licensed plumber to do this job. It's not a new/inspected work, it's REPAIR. Look for 'Handyman' in Kijiji. Licensed Plumbers don't like 'jobbing' (i.e. repairs) they want to do rennovations or new builds.
Secondly, you could do this yourself.
Contacted multiple handymen on thumbtack and task rabbit. That’s where I got the above mentioned solutions from. They told me to get the faucet and they would do the job (see above)
PS - i averaged 57hrs/week at work last month. Not a lot of energy left for this stuff. Another reason to hire someone.
I'd try YouTube. One can practically learn brain surgery there.
Indeed, that is precisely how I learned quantum mechanics. It did take a couple of years. I got to watch the lectures of the incomparable Richard Feynman, although only in B&W, and he died in 1988.
Sure - the woman who cant master measure twice cut once? Who has to use command strips to hang pictures because hammering always results in bodily injury and/or property damage? I would make a reservation for the Servicepro guys to fix the water damage. And would be more successful performing brain surgery! 😄
Yes of course the domino theory of failed DIY projects provokes anxiety.
You don't know what you're talking about and are giving bad advice.
Depending on what she majored in, I bet she is making more money now, doing that. What this means is, society values her more doing that.
And she’s probably happier
@LorriAnn
The only *accurate measure of success in life, Yes.
Sad.
College should never have been marketed as the ticket to a better income - that's the entire failure right there. We've been pushed into a belief in material upward mobility and you're a fool if you don't join that rat race. Feminism did a similar thing to women - they only know their value by their paycheck; what an obscenely cruel joke.
The whole post-WWII GI Bill - send all the boys to college - was *intended* to keep another depression, and Bonus Army march, at bay. The presumption was the post-war economy couldn't gainfully employ all of them at once. So we took this one-time fluke and turned it into a fundamental socio-economic principle.
I NEVER looked at a degree as a ticket to a good job. I was told 'You go to university for an education and then community college for a job'. That's what I taught my kids. The eldest majored in Film/Drama and the next youngest majored in Fine Art.
The eldest became a Capt in the the USMC, and the younger one now runs the building department for a township.
I'm very proud of my daughters.
There was no choice... we (the USA) had to be part of the modern knowledge economy to be globally competitive.
Isn't that cute, believing that bit of propaganda. The U.S. created the post-war economic order (to go along with the Cold War and containment). No one forced us to do anything.
So you mean the US could have prevented, say, computers from being invented?
Computers are a significant technology, but they don't define capitalism and international trade. The keystones were all put in place when U.S. Steel was a far bigger corporation than IBM, and GM was a giant when the founders of Google had yet to be born.
Well, find me a country that has a high standard of living without having a highly educated workforce, and I'll take your ideas more seriously.
How is studying, say, a STEM field "indoctrination into the myths and values of consumerism?"
I guess you couldn't actually answer the question.
Welcome to e.pierce’s shit list. He doesn’t like it when people don’t easily understand him.
I agree. The only "jobs" many college grads get is going to grad school and teaching the next generation of students the same thing so they can go to grad school and teach the same thing. Lather rinse repeat.
I went to an mining engineering school and the head of our department gave us some sage advice just before graduation. We all thought we were hot shit because we had a bachelor's degree and were destined to be great. He told us we were no where near being an engineer. What they had taught us was a way to think, approach a problem logically and figure out a solution. Talk to the miners. Talk to the people who actually know what they are doing and work that into the solution. Just because it works on paper doesn't mean it will work in the field. He said it would take years for us to gain enough real world knowledge to get to be a true engineer. If you truly want to succeed you have to listen and learn and if you do have a new idea be able to explain it to the people actually doing the work in a way that they see what it is you have in mind.
Sage advice.
I left the mining industry after a few years because engineering wasn't for me. But, I have taken that advice everywhere I went.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't engineers have to sit for an exam well after grad to get the title 'Professional Engineer'? What I mean is that my experience w/ engineers, as limited as it is has been that it's a field where mentorship is prevalent.
Everyone needs a baseline level of literacy and math skills up to an alegbra level. Other than that, schools are mainly there for kid-herding, which IS still an important societal function.
If someone is highly conversant in literature or history or high level math, it is b/c they were lucky enough to be born with a brain attuned to and attracted to such things from a young age.
Free baby sitting with indoctrination in the world view of the ruling classes thrown in with the baby sitting. The teachers don't even know they're doing it because it was done to them and seems normal...not.
I wouldn’t go with the indoctrination angle in schools that aren’t in deep blue areas. Teachers unions are godawful and useless, but plenty of teachers see through the bs.
Robert and Stxbuck - Seriously? Why not quit when you're ahead? You applaud plumbers and think college degrees are next to worthless and tout your own college credentials (while also pretending you don't value them) but then have to stoop to bashing teachers and their unions?
Indoctrination much?
As a teacher, I can attest that teachers unions are 99% useless. Do they serve a local function if a teacher gets unfairly caught up in some kind of brouhaha with parents or students-yes, but that’s about it. They mostly exist to protect bad teachers who have been in the system forever-at the expense of younger teachers who aren’t burnt out wastoids, promote more and more useless high dollar admin positions, and serve as a cheering section for whatever idiocy the left wing of the D party trots out.
I sort of disagree. They seem to be incredibly useful when it comes to pushing through an political agenda. Sorry but I think Randi weingarten has been one of the biggest problems with public education for what 2 decades??
When you get the chance, can you translate your post into comprehensible English?
Some people get there through repetition. Take College Algebra often enough and you'll master it eventually.
I often wonder living 5 hours drive North of Boston why nobody knows we are here. We are a secular humanist liberal democracy and even Covid has not affected our optimism or devastated our economy. In the midst of a Canadian election we are asking where are we going to get the needed millions of workers we need in addition to those we are educating while the rest of Canada worries about their economic future.
We watch and enjoy our athletes and entertainers but we respect and listen to our philosophers and wise men and women.
There is a big difference between neoliberalism and liberal democracy. Here in Quebec we have learned that we are management and draw up the plans for our future. We lived frugally and relied on others for support while we educated our young people to thrive during and after this technological revolution. In Quebec the words God bless Quebec are blasphemy and magic does not exist.
I pretty much read your entire thread, and ignored (except for one flame I sent) the trolls.
What a perfect description of Quebec, warts and all.
My own story: born and bred Irish Catholic Bronx kid who went from the seminary to the NYPD. I managed to work that underpaid job b/c I had a Plumbing/Heating license and did >>$$ than my precinct commander.
In 85 went on a ski holiday for a week of drunken debauchery in the Laurentians (Gray Rocks) w/ about 50 other cops from the combined Anti Crime (plainclothes) units from the Bx and Queens. Was totally smoked.
Moved to Canada a year later and have never looked back.
How you've described Quebec is pretty much in line w/my own take. This past summer I spent almost 2 weeks toodling around the Gaspe. It was a total blast despite my piss poor French.
I fucking LOVED all 3 debates (the translations on the first one really sucked). The way I see it, the (deserved) rage of the 90's separatist movement has matured to a 'don't fuck w/me' attitude. Since then it has mellowed into a sense of confidence and openness that is just so...so damn wonderful.
Your writing is so crisp and well thought out. I'm willing to put a loonie against a timbit that you're just a dime a dozen where you live though. I base that on my just general bullshitting w/people at bars and restaurants during my Gaspe holiday. Fantastic well rounded conversations Each And Every Time.
My wife is an Ontario girl now (my ski instructor 'Liddle Maple Leaf' from the 80's died in '01) and had never vacayed in Quebec. She too came away w/ such admiration and respect for Quebec that it's telling.
You're a well spoken good shit, man.
I grew up in Montreal in aspiring to middle class in an English speaking community. My Mother was born at the Royal Vic and my great grandparents are buried in Montreal but there was no way we could ever become either English speaking bourgois or French Speaking bourgois. We weren't welcome at Grey Rocks, Orford, Stowe , or Jay Peak. We met a new neighbour this week who grew up on Long Island and found Quebec City and Quebec was where she belonged.
Canadian polymath, historian and philosopher John Ralston Saul told us in 1993 that Cynicism is the greatest threat to democracy. It is little wonder that our right of center economist Premier is about the most trusted politician on the planet.
This 60 year old episode of Fighting Words is must see TV. It is a reminder of where we went wrong.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1870929042
Fuuuk. Don't get me started on Quebec City! I spent 2 days there on my vacay and fell in love w/ the place just from the highway- the MOST exciting architecture I've ever seen; makes NYC look like a dump.
I don't get the unwelcome at Gray Rocks bit. My liddle Maple Leaf was an instructor there and was uni-lingual (English) at the time.
I remember back when Bill 101 almost passed. At the time I was in my 30's and a day hop student at Queen's U. The day after the referendum I went around to all my friends in the student union and smacked them all inna head. Seriously. I told them all the kind of bullet Canada dodged from that vote being so fucking close.
I'm more a Quebec Nationalist than pretty much any Anglais Canadians I know. I think it's b/c my grandfather was a revolutionary- the Easter Uprising of 1916. I never met the man, but the tale I was told is that on Easter night he stayed in a barn w/ the rest of his buds not letting them hang a Protestant farmer. For the sin of being 'a Proddy'. In other words, I get the rage of the 'civilly oppressed'.
Which is why I have that Teddy Bear on my porch.
I was educated in Quebec. Mordecai Richler died nearby from where I live. His novel and the movie The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz talks about the Quebec we were born in and the fact that he died here and I will die here is a tribute to how far we have come. In High School Hugh Maclennan's Two Solitudes was written near here and gives a good picture of the Quebec before the revolution.
I never attended university but when I applied to Bishop's University in Lennoxville the Vice Principal told me my people weren't welcome. Today Bishops is about the most diverse and progressive university in Canada economically, ethnically and socially despite its small size. Bishop's was the school that produced the English speaking bourgois and is still an elite school for the humanities especially for writers and poets..
OK, I'll bite: First Nations? I'm asking b/c I'm baffled you would be told that at all. FWIW, I first heard of Bishops's after my kids got enrolled @ Queen's.
I'm aware of Richler- read 'The National Dream' as well as Duddy.
"Here in Quebec"
Hahaha - I know people that live there and they do not paint the picture you do. But it was a nice troll, I'll give you that.
So, Moe's the blind man feeling the elephant's leg, but you're the blind man feeling its trunk...
Dueling anecdotes. A curse not only afflicting personal knowledge, but even the media, which has the knowledge and tools to do much better.
I am blind in one eye and see the world through one all too blurry eye giving me little depth of field. I could never wear a watch or carry a cell phone my 73 years is but a moment in a universe whose only absolute is entropy. The elephant is way beyond my understanding I am still learning what a rope is.
Moe's poetic waxing reads a tad delusional to me.
Well, he appears to me not psychotic, although sometimes his language is hard for me to follow. Therefore I believe he can relate to us some Quebec realities. Pick and choose.
Yes, I just don't believe it is the nirvana he describes - at least not without the benefit of psychedelics.
I know many people who live here and don't like Quebec. We had a revolution. Many people have problems with secular humanist liberal democracy. Adams never conceded to Jefferson because he was a Federalist and Jefferson was a Democratic Republican Scientist and Deist.
Yeah. No. You are asleep or th internet is a poor vector for sarcasm
"I often wonder living 5 hours drive North of Boston why nobody knows we are here."
In my experience, French-Canadian-American culture is not exactly the most conscious or pro-active among ethnic groups. The last time Quebec was front-page news in Boston was most recent attempt to secede, which of course was characterized by TPTB as A Bad Thing.
I returned to Quebec in 2004 after 35 years in English speaking Canada and the USA. Little did I suspect how much Quebec society had changed. Our grandchildren's generation has no taste for separation the status quo is most appealing.
Where I live the local University does not recognize gender, race or religion as identities. Science says there is now only one race of humans as Neanderthals and others races of homo have disappeared 42,000 years ago. Gender is not binary in Quebec and religion belongs in homes, churches and closets. In Quebec our Universities run health, education and welfare and our universities preach equality equality, equality and they are zealots when it comes to democracy.
Of course in a meritocratic liberal democratic society there are unintended consequences such as for over a decade 70% of new doctors are xx chromosomed , our colleges and universities are majority xx chromosomed and our workforce is majority xx chromosomed and domestic partnership agreements are drawn up by lawyers representing society, our churches are empty and we guarantee affordable childcare and paternal and maternal leave. Refugees are welcomed here if they can get across our unmilitarized fenceless border. We need workers and new Canadians or old Canadians who are willing to live in our secular humanist liberal democracy French speaking society.
Our greatest need is new fellow citizens to fill the job openings in our booming economy.
The French language federal leaders debate was on Wednesday and the English language debate on Thursday were very different. It is Quebec and Quebecers who are really enjoying the status quo. All we want are new citizens.Where they come from matters very little there are jobs and opportunities and caregivers for everyone and their families.
This isn't the Quebec I grew up in.
If you guys need new citizens, why aren't you reproducing?
Ah! Therein lies the rub. We are globalists. We believe there is only one us. We are a self proclaimed secular humanist society. We are human centric not Deo centric, ethnocentric, or exceptional we believe we are all humans. We believe we are no better than the people behind those fences you built to keep them out. We are humanists and not all of us want to be breeding stock. To tell you the truth the family is a societal construct and our society is adapting to change and maybe change dictates that we need something other than the nuclear family that in 2021 renders us insane citizens.The majority of our workforce is XX and more stay at home moms or dads would crash our economy.
The truth is that not everyone dreams of a life in suburbia.
"We believe there is only one us."
I'm sorry. Who's in th cult again?
Thanks for your descriptions.
Note: I think it would help your descriptions, here and above, if you could more clearly identify where and when the "we" refers to: your own opinions; your perception of, or evidence for, majority Quebec opinions that are yours, opinions that are not yours; etc. etc. I think sometimes the point-of-view silently switches from one to another. I'm not so good at picking it up, so, 'my bad' there.
I understand your own preference is the Quebec of c.1970, correct? But some modern things are desirable?
Jordan knows Quebec culture he worked for years with the most dangerous inmates of our most secure insane asylum. I know Fairview Alberta and can understand Peterson's problems. It is difficult to convince yourself you are correct when you know deep inside you are wrong. I suspect the loss of Grant Notley might have crushed Jordan's universe.
Grant Notley was a democratic socialist politician who seemed destined to become Canadian Prime Minister when he perished in a plane crash. Fairview Alberta is a very small town like the one Thornton Wilder wrote about.
I live in maple syrup country and nowhere in Quebec are snails regular menu items. Quebec culture is not French culture. Quebec broke with France because of the revolution. The Quebec revolution started in the 1960s.
Quebecers are Quebecers they are totally unFrench which is neither good nor bad it just is. In France immigrants can never become truly French in Quebec they want everyone to become Quebecers.
I have spent more than half my life outside of Quebec and Quebecers don't like to toot their own horns but they have a very secure and content citizenry.
The image of the angry jealous Quebecers is not today's reality. There is no richer place on the planet in which to live.
Moe, e.pierce is a troll, ignore him. I'll be commenting about La Belle Province down your thread.
To what end do the authoritarians want to prolong this lockdown?
Rile folks up to justify the Domestic War on Terror.
Think of the money to be made wrecking shit right here in the good old USA!
It does seem like the vaccine controversy has been purposefully engineered. If it was actually about concern for people's health, politicians and media figures are well capable of being persuasive rather than divisive.
If not intentional, certainly another case of not wasting a crisis.
You see the results with the few statists willing to poke their heads in this comment thread. I gave someone my favorite anarchist line and got called a sovereign state guy - granted, I understand the views can be conflated easily but the latter is much more likely to be considered a right wing terrorist group thanks to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Besides what's a guy gotta do to be called an ANTIFA lackey these days?
conditioning a compliant race of servants and weeding out the autonomous
I both love and respect aunt Martha who in her late 90s still has got it together. Here in Quebec we are a secular humanist liberal democracy. WE are not worried about authoritarians we the voters are the final and absolute authority and we are bringing up our grandchildren to understand the ways of real liberal democracy. Not only do we have good government but we have a good society and good societies demand their government be good.
America's voters chose Reagan and the lie that government; YOUR GOVERNMENT, was the enemy.
That is GOOD as in eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
How strange that the one place in North America that bans religious promotions in all public places insists on promoting the general welfare as its basic metaphysics.
What kind of a BS word is lockdown ? Public health is a matter for public health departments and it is they who issue health protocols not the quackitocracy. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and goes quack quack. Chances are it is a ______. Our government served the desires of our experts in public health not the Harvard business school. We were hit early and recovered early and because of protocols this fourth wave is not overburdening our hospitals or morgues.
And another ethnically homogenous nation chimes in. Please do tell us more about your purity.
I moved back to Quebec from the Southside of Chicago. My wife and I were the 7% visible minority. Don't lecture me on homogeneous societies. Our little town of 5000 is more diverse than the neighbourhoods of Chicago ethnically, economically and what you call race and gender . If you work for our local university or are a student you are entitled to choose your prefered name of identification, your prefered gender identity and you can even select your preferred specie's identity.
The Quebec I grew up in didn't need immigration. Birth control was illegal, there were never enough jobs and the church made sure the fertility rate was sky high. You can see the product of our emigration everywhere in the USA . Quebecers are an important part of your cultural mosaic.
America is diverse out of necessity not choice and everyday because of our booming economy we become more diverse. All the local mayors are begging for new citizens to fill the jobs that need filling and Haitians , Canadians, Hondurans , Asians , Africans , Americans and even Europeans are welcome to move to where the future is designed to be better than the past.
So, you moved away from all the Black people to experience more diversity? Sounds pretty Canadian to me. By the way, what is the town is it you live in?
I didn't move away from all the black people I moved to downtown Montreal which is really diverse. I did a lot of cooking and the south side of chicago was not the place to shop for my Iranian, East Indian, Oriental, Eastern European and Canadian cuisine. After Montreal and my uncle's demise I retired to a small town in the Eastern Townships. I lived longer in Chicago than I had lived anywhere from the time I was 17 till I was 60. The town I live in is none of your business but Sherbrooke is the closest city. My uncle in Montreal was responsible for my wife and I leaving Chicago we loved living in Woodlawn but sometimes you realize driving in the city is not something old people should do. In Montreal one can get around on public transit. These days we do so little driving we never changed from our winter mandated snow tires.
Hey, isn't Canada that place with all the mass graves full of indigenous kids?
I think there's a plank in your eye. Not sure though.
@Phisto
Might need to throttle that back a notch. We have those SAME graves right here in places like Oregon, Montana, Both Dakotas, etc. We were blessed with these by the same people Canada was. Missionaries. Catholic and others, were paid by the Government to "get those Indian children in line", meaning to forcibly convert them into white culture, language and religion.
My brother filmed a documentary on this at the Lakota Rosebud Reservation
in South Dakota. It was definitely not a "one off" for Canadians. The Canadian bodies were discovered via Ground Penetrating Radar. The bodies remain buried. But everyone knows that myriad more bodies remain to be found, sad to say, on *both sides of our Northern Border.
Throttle it back several notches. We perfected the practices, everyone else copied.
Oh, I know.
I wanted to needle Moe on what I perceived is an unacceptably high and mighty perspective. Their last comment was really great.
The Victoria Bridge that spans the St Lawrence and connects Montreal to the mainland is a scene of a mass burial. Many of the graves are those of victims of the Irish genocide where the bottom 20% economically of Irish society were starved to death or deported to places like Montreal or New York where their labour was in high demand. There was no famine in Ireland their food export based economy boomed during the time of no potatoes.
It is my understanding that the English and Anglo-Irish landlords continued to demand their export quotas were met while the Irish were starving.
@Moe
Yes, it did, Sir. I am Irish on both sides of my family, and I have heard "a bit" of what you mention. Thanks !
Yes. Our first Prime Minister was a Conservative Racist and executed thousands of innocents. We are in the middle of Truth and Reconciliation and have granted sovereignty to many of our first nations. We cannot give back what we have stolen, we can't bring to life what we have destroyed but we can try not to do it again.
Glad to hear you say that.
I'm not aware of any similar efforts in the United States. Too bad.
Hey asshole. Those graves were discovered in June, and Friday October 1st was declared a holiday in Canada for Truth And Reconciliation. I have a teddy bear on display at the front of my home.
How fucking dare you point a finger at Canada with your history of slavery and genocide you feckless fuck.
Who did I enslave and genocide? Or do you mean the United States? Don’t worry, I point the finger there too.
But you’re right, the teddy bear totally makes up for it.
Now hush troll boy.
Erode individual rights and enhance corporate-state control.
Whoever posted this, please find aunt martha and give her back her computer. She's too smart not to know that the lockdown is the predicate to abuse your opponents and bribe your supporters.
Forever.
If all the Jews just left Europe, we could have avoided the Holocaust.
All throughout the vast US federal government, as well as in private industry, there are scattered pools of incompetence and of genius, while on another axis, of corruption and of nobility. Figuring out which is which is not irrational, but a necessity. If you think you've sorted out well what's going on in the fog of the COVID war, you need to read more widely.
Here, it also offers participation in a sort of speculative online hunger games kind of thingy.
Yes, I know. Quiz, not query. So far, you're the only one to deliver the correct answer to my question.
Thank you so much for your lucid response. I earned a B.A.degree in Theatre Arts, with a minor in Comparaitive Liteature from a California State College which is a now a California State University. I am retired from the Teamsters' after nearly thirty years as a Professional Driver. The GI Bill allowed me to live comfortably while attending school but my mail box was always full of offers to get unnecessary credit cards or student loans. This was in the early 1970's. An insidious and seductive trap. Fortunately I was not also innumerate. Thanks again for your messages.
"His net worth is many times mine. I should have skipped college and become a plumber."
How is 'net worth' a better measure of success than credentials?
I would argue Americans' need to acquire ever more "stuff" is as unhealthy as credential chasing.
Well, we primates are very conscious of our social status. Sadly this doesn't say much for humans being a higher-level primate.
Necessaries like food and housing are also stuff
Food and housing are also stuff, that can be bought with net worth but not credentials
Good point. I think this is where Matt and a lot of people go sideways about the evil of meritocracy. Sandel, taken from what Matt quotes, gets a lot closer to the mark when he talks about 'credentialism' versus mere affluence as a marker.
Affluence has been incredibly democratized over the last 75 years in America, basically post-WWII and Great Depression and even accounting for the 1970s inflation spike and the 2008 crash, except you have to be Gen X or older to recognize it. I like to think of it this way. When you're a couple of cube-farm gophers each with a useless master's degree and a metric shit-ton of college debt struggling to keep up appearances in Authenticity Acres (Jim Geraghty's apt moniker for modern suburbia), it has to be beyond infuriating that your next-door neighbor who is a journeyman electrician or plumber has got a tricked-out Dodge Ram, can afford to eat out and vacation in the same or better places, has season tickets to his favorite pro sports franchise, and does it all on just his take home pay. It is almost inevitable that you will grab on to anything else beyond affluence to justify the lifestyle choices that you made as a marker of higher status. That includes your college degree(s), your Prius, and your choices in restaurants, amusements, leisure activities, politics, and religion (or lack thereof). The identity politics crowd has found a fertile ground in stoking these differences to produce tribal conflict among people who should largely have the same interests given their geographic proximity.
Prius? That’s so 2005, dude. It’s Tesla now. My girlfriend and I just bought one; it’s sitting in the driveway of the house we bought four years ago. Neither of us went to college. Well, I went to community college for a couple semesters in like 1998, but you get my point.
In a progressive world it’s no different because the progressive would have you believe healthcare and necessitates grow on trees which are picked by fairies employed by the government who can just print money forever.
You can buy stuff with net worth but not with credentials
If you have the right credentials you don't need money; ask George W Bush.
Net worth usually indicates a degree of financial security; it's the whole 'net' part, y'know?
Bill, you deserve +1 million on the upvotes. You nailed it.
you ain't wrong at all my man. Thanks for posting.
excellent
You have all those degrees, including some unspecified medical one, and you can't out-earn an elevator mechanic? Maybe he runs an elevator repair business.
I have an undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering. I'm told I'm stupid all the time because of my politics. Even on this forum some guy named "The Strongest" told me to kill myself.
You might mention to the gentleman that there are drugs for that kind of intolerance and hatred. Professional counseling (for him) should probably be pursued. I've never met a stupid mechanical or industrial engineer, but I suppose my experience is limited. I used to mentor MSIEs.
It's possible that you and I are both stupid, we just can't recognize it. It's more likely that someone mistaking a difference in political opinion for stupidity is the real idiot.
It’s a way for children to make a point when they don’t have the bandwidth to express themselves. Deflection, name calling, wishing ill on others. For example: “you smell and I hope you die.” I mean how does one respond to that?
And we have a nation full of enraged people all the way around who constantly say and do things that are reprehensible! I have had the charming experience of being canceled by family for my views. What was said to you is beyond savage. I haven’t kept pace with all of his posts and hope it isn’t his norm. It’s an effort to silence and I hope you won’t fall for it.
You have been listening to too much Chris Hedges and not enough Steven Pinker. I am guilty of the same thing but here in Quebec the change from theocratic plutocracy to liberal democracy has made us rich economically, spiritually and psychologically. It isn't perfect but most of us are looking at an even better future.
"[T]he academy needs to have a place where people can form a deep connection to the intellectual heritage of what's called 'The West.'"
Agreed. Huntington distracted us with his interpretation of the "Clash of Civilizations". The far more critical clash is a ferocious battle internal to the West, the labels (roughly speaking) being: globalism run with totalitarian, secretive, compartmentalized hierarchies of multiple, externally-managed, hermetically-sealed worldview 'pools'; vs. traditional West's open, democratic society of not just rights but responsibilities, and boundaries-by-choice.
Never has the credentialed class been this incompetent. Maybe that's what fuels their rage. Deep down, they know they're mostly worthless.
Yes. IMO, compared to other countries, America seems to have really crappy elites. If you're gonna be an elite, at least have the decency to be competent at something.
I think we've seen that Europeans are not overly fond of their elites either. This was a good point about Gurri's book - he saw much the same thing happening around the world, which is why he posited that a major shift enabled by technology had happened.
I am five hours North of Boston. I live in a stable prosperous, dynamic and optimistic secular humanist liberal democracy that puts even the rest of Canada to shame. We have endured nothing but bad press since the corporations fled 50 years ago. Liberal democracy has been very good to us. We need millions of workers to fill the 100s of thousands of jobs we are creating every year. Our citizens are are guaranteed basic security and all the education they want or need. We have everything Bernie demands for all Americans and our government was running surpluses before the pandemic so Universal Dentalcare was put on the backburner till we decide if we want to continue having private long term care facilities. We also have affordable childcare even if affordable means free. We do in reality have a universal basic income and despite our welfare society our economy keeps on growing and we are rich beyond anything we could have imagined when I was growing up.
I actually considered changing it from 'American' elites to 'Western', but I feel ours are, perhaps parochially, just a tad worse. Plus, eastern European elites still seem to be serious about their jobs and doing right by their populations.
I won't argue the relative merits, just noting that this is not merely a local phenomena.
This a point worth considering.
We had the best and brightest in govt during the Viet Nam conflict or so we are to believe. This is exactly part of the problem - the belief that they are the best and brightest, that they are exceptional and as such entitled. What we need in our elites is a whole lot more humility; and at least a little accountability would be good too.
The rub is that the sociopaths, not necessarily or even usually the ablest, rise to the top. We need some kind of better mechanism to control that. My (catch-all) candidate is to make improvements to media. But we need to up our game fast.
Our problems start in Congress - they (the House in particular) should be exercising oversight of the Executive. Instead they delegate to the Executive and declaim all other responsibility. Improvements in media would be welcome, but until we hold our Reps accountable, they won't hold anyone else so.
Agreed. This particular problem went into overdrive with COVID, and a year and a half later we are still being ruled by "emergency" edicts.
@Anti-Hip
Good chance that result was intentional. See Naomi Klein, "The Shock Doctrine".
Tell ya what - get back to the rest of us when you identify a better elite.
All that I can say is that while I do not have a degree, my covid-vax-refusing husband has a master's in a hard science and many of the people I know who are "vaccine hesitant" are also well educated but trained well enough in critical thinking that they are highly skeptical of the narrative.
Covid fanaticism is the religion of midwits -- usually degreed but with poor thinking skills -- who worship those with credentials and terminal degrees whether the intellectual dogma they push makes sense or not.
I seem to have read reporting that two fairly divergent groups are the least vaccinated, Blacks and PhD holders. Are we to believe these are all mouth-breathing right-wing Trumpers?
I'm looking at a study right now (https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Health_Policy_Brief_Vaccination_US_May21.pdf) which indicates that graduate/professional degree holders have the highest vaccination rate. The lowest being high school or less. So I doubt that's right about PhDs.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/americans-with-phds-are-most-reluctant-to-get-vaccinated-against-covid/ar-AANjRHh
Unfortunately this misinformation won't seem to go away. https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/
"“We found that people basically used it to write in political … statements,” King said. “So they weren’t genuine responses. They didn’t really complete the survey in good faith.” Dr King was the lead researcher. It wasn't a good study. https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/
From the original study: "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice." See https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text
That has been part of the narrative of big pHarma's propaganda arm, big media. Brand anyone questioning in any way vaccination or the "social measures" as right wing nuts, conspiracy nuts or just plain dumb. In any event here is a link showing PhD's as least vaccinated:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/americans-with-phds-are-most-reluctant-to-get-vaccinated-against-covid/ar-AANjRHh
This bit of information that's been circulating recently that PHDs have the highest rate of vaccine skepticism is actually almost certainly false:
https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/
Isn't it also highly educated people who don't vaccinate their kids for pertussis and cause entirely preventable outbreaks of whooping cough? Just because someone is highly educated doesn't mean that they are making good decisions. In fact, often having too much information about something causes people to make worse decisions because a lot of the information is irrelevant and distracts from the relevant and important information that should be used to make the decision.
I get your point but you may want to choose your example better. Acellular pertussis is a known issue:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28289064/
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00173-3/fulltext
Prior to COVID this one was most cited for asymptomatic spread.
Just because MD and PhD are next to a name does not confer knowledge. The ocean of knowledge is simply too vast even for well educated people to grasp the nuance of complex situations.
One might suggest that this might lend support to the idea that PhD holders are not terribly "smart" :D
I read that PhD stands for Push Here, Dummy.
Here's a link that says PhD's are least vaccinated group:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/americans-with-phds-are-most-reluctant-to-get-vaccinated-against-covid/ar-AANjRHh
Looked at Shadac site which lists partners/clients as:
• Foundations
• Federal Agencies
• State Agencies
• Associations
• Research Organizations
• Private Sector Businesses
I'm guessing these include orgs like GAVI, CEPI, Gates, CDC big pHarma etc. (they give no details).
Sadly, one can probably find info to make any case and it is necessary to vet any "data" thoroughly as to source which is difficult.
From the original study: "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice."
I did link one such study [under a different comment] and we see another below. It appears this is a highly contentious point with lots of small, contradictory datasets. Selective polling for the victory of rhetoric over reason!
Here in Canada, a professor of ethics at the University of Western Ontario went viral with a tearful video claiming she was losing her job because of a vaccine mandate. At first I felt sympathy, until I learned she refused even to mask up -- not to mention that she wasn't losing her job, only having to go on paid leave.
A professor of ethics who refuses to wear a mask while teaching at a school full of young people? You can't make this up.
Perhaps she does not feel it is ethical for students who are at little risk personally which they can mitigate with their own masks and vaccines to demand that she take further action with her body for their perceived (but not in fact real) benefit.
Is it ethical for me to demand you participate in my rain dance?
So true. We have all been forced to do illogical idiotic things for over a year by these “elites” who don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground!!
The rain dance only works if WE ALL DO IT!
No but I will do your rain dance (if you ask nicely) before I do half the stuff Fauci wants to impose.
But would you wear a mask to participate (ceremonial activities often involve wearing masks)
If I get to wear one representing something cool like a lioness - with the nice breathable long snout too
When's the costume orgy start?
...asking for a friend.
Shucks, apparently she doesn't consider it ethical for herself, either
Masks don’t work except N 95. The young people have almost no risk.
Uh, yes they do, of the right material and fit ...
We disagree.
We certainly do ...
You might even disagree on the meaning of "don't work". People have fun saying things like masks don't work to stop the spread (due to compliance failures), but slightly purposefully confounding that with claiming masks do nothing to reduce disease spread (not true).
That said, blaming people for not being vaccinated while allowing the entire country to go indoors and on planes wearing cloth masks when N95 are perfectly available is lunacy.
OH MY GOD HOW HORRIBLE.
How many students have died? She should be held criminally liable.
But they could've possibly maybe died. To the gulag, I say.
Face masks are don't work and probably cause harm:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/face-masks-dont-protect-risk-serious-harm-health/5743279?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles
Young people are less at risk than for seasonal flu. If the masks (and vaccines) work you can make that personal choice - why would you deprive another person of their legal, constitutional and human rights to control their own body and of the fundamental medical ethos of informed consent ? Have you made the slightest effort to do any research beyond listening to the corrupt MSM deluge of fear porn ? Also good comments below. Hope the professor gets back to her job - sounds like she is good at it.
Did you bother to watch the video?
Or are you just making up a hot take based on her job title alone?
So the paid leave doesn’t lead to losing her position?
https://youtu.be/X0UpeUJEhMo
I think that remains to be determined. As far as I know the alternative to being vaccinated under the mandate wasn't being fired, it was just not being allowed on campus. Maybe they'll have her teach her classes over Zoom again; I really don't know. Her name is Dr. Julie Ponesse if you want to look into it.
Gives "terminal degree" a new edge.
@Mr Reeks
Indeed, FAR more of the Credentialed than those adept with rational thought, and critical analysis. I personally know *many of the uncredentialed that can think circles around others. Schooling can improve critical thinking, but if it was not learned at home, students barely recognize it when (more like "if" anymore) they encounter it in schools.
OK - so now it is the vaccinated who are the dummies ...
@SH
Because, if we are out of bed, if we have had our coffee, and if we are not yet harshly judging SOMEONE, we are foolishly wasting our day ! Hi, SH have you been away for a bit ? I haven't seen you much since we convinced a couple of trolls to locate greener pastures ! :-O ;-D
Howdy, Atma!
You Bet! We haven't even had a baby born with a CVOID Vaxed mother yet.
"Over 20 women enrolled in the initial adult Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine trial became pregnant during the study period, and none suffered pregnancy loss or perinatal complications."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/03/17/vaccinated-mother-gives-birth-to-first-newborn-with-covid-19-antibodies/?sh=3ac0db49191e
Inaccurate assertion. There are also several registries in place to further address this question.
And you know this, how? Have you checked all the birth registrations - on the planet?
When was the first Vaccination open to the PUBLIC? How many children have been born since then? How many of those children were by Vaccinated and Un Vaccinated. And my point is NO one has checked ANYTHING!
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782047
Women would have had to have been fertilized before January 2021 when Vaccinations started.
Jan - August 9 months = ? NOW! And it would not be the mother who is of concern it would be the CHILD,
Thalidomide: the tragedy of birth defects and Thalidomide
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21507989/
Thalidomide was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women. It became apparent in the 1960s that thalidomide treatment resulted in severe birth defects in thousands of children.
Only one women kept it from being OKed in this country:
Frances Oldham Kelsey - Wikipedia
Search domain en.wikipedia.orghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Oldham_Kelsey
Frances Kathleen Oldham Kelsey, CM (July 24, 1914 - August 7, 2015) was a Canadian-American pharmacologist and physician. As a reviewer for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), she refused to authorize thalidomide for market because she had concerns about the lack of evidence regarding the drug's safety.
We have no Frances Kathleen Oldham Kelsey to champion US!
Why do you say a woman would have had to be fertilized before then?
Thanx!
Right. I agree with most of the posters here, but not sure if Matt fully gets this.
So how does the fact that ICUs are overflowing and deaths mounting figure into your opinion? What if the mortality were 5% (overall population) or 10%. Would you sing the same tune?
Except they aren't.
This is definitely a false narrative nation wide anyway. You are right. I check the US as a whole on CDC website and then all our local numbers and some odd states everywhere. They are so far being hysterical I presume to control people primarily. Even Bill Maher says to stop terrifying people. 40% of Democrats think there's a 50% chance if you get covid you'll go to the hospital and have severe disease. It's between 1 and 5% chance. And if these idiots had gotten that antibody treatment and other therapeutics out there immediately, probably that number would be much lower. Brilliant of Desantis to do that and the death rate dropped fast. That should have happened immediately two years ago. Now Biden is restricting distribution to him. Ah what are those meangingless conservative lives when the greater political Marxist good is at stake.
False narrative - nationwide .... true, not EVERY ICU is "overflowing" - just in some "odd states" could those be the ones where folks are more likely to be "invaxxed"?
Nope, it's seasonality same as last year. That's how we knew the Florida and Texas spikes would recede on their own and how we know everybody will get hit this winter.
Hmm, last i checked - it is the same season all over the country ...
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/
Media is poised to lie with the new definition of Vaccinated Death NEW RULE:
“For the purpose of this surveillance, a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person ≥14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine. “
28 days between shots plus 14 days = 42 days . Anything under 42 days is considered an UN vaccinated death.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
To inflate Non Vaccinated deaths because Vaccinated deaths die within 2 weeks of the JAB
For the purpose of this surveillance - if that were so, they would record EVERYTHING .
Good grief!
Have you checked with them?
Yes I look at the data nearly every day. Mostly to counter stupid shit I hear like "THE ICUs ARE OVERFLOWING WITH COVIDERS"
Prove it from your vast wealth of data.
Two friends of my wife have had to postpone elective procedures due to bed issues at UNC.
Idaho has an ICU bed shortage.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/us/idaho-covid-hospitalizations.html
If you don't trust the New York Times then how about this:
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/oregon-and-idaho-are-running-out-of-icu-beds-as-covid-cases-hit-records/
Or how about this:
https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article253892453.html
The governor of that State is having to admit that "all" of the COVID-positive patients in the ICU were unvaccinated.
Yeah this is exactly the shit I'm talking about.
https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization
69% of beds are taken in Idaho. 19% of them by covid patients. You could literally double the number of patients and still be at regular usage. So if Idaho beds get "full", is it because of the 20% of covid patients or the 80% there for something else?
There aren't a lot of open ICU beds in Northern Idaho because there are NEVER a lot of ICU beds in Northern Idaho! Nearby population centers are in neighboring states.
Don't trust me, take a look at the resource. You can zoom in to see every hospital in the area.
By the way, that's a ridiculous way to characterize what he actually said.
--------
Little said he toured an ICU wing at St. Luke’s in Boise on Monday evening that was nearly full with COVID-19 patients who had an average age of 43.
--------
He's talking about one wing of one hospital. Which may very well be separated by vax status, who knows.
So yeah thanks for proving exactly what I'm saying. You read an article but don't understand it, then use that to claim you know what's happening. All you have to do is look at the actual data and you see the truth.
Here you go: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/
Well, I can't figure out how you figure this. I am watching the CDC's own numbers and these headlines are not supported by their own data. Cases are not nearly as high as last surge and are coming own fast in Florida and Texas, deaths dropping like a rock. Overall cases and deaths not that high in whole US and might be plateauing. I am looking at our local data, dropping and very few hospitalized in my local area. Michigan cases are up slightly but deaths remain low. It just isn't true so far that cases and deaths are skyrocketing. Most ICU's are not overflowing. None that I've personally checked.
@Lekimball
Sad to say, the CDC is only *freshly beyond being a fully controlled, and fully compliant mouthpiece for the Trump administration. Reports during that time were being written *by members of the Trump Admin. One could *tell, because they all sounded as if they were being authored by untutored Sixth-Graders.
Hm, well, not sure I'm following your point again, so I'll be careful. :) I'm not saying the CDC's numbers are necessarily even accurate, but I'm saying the left narratives aren't supported by their own data. Not sure what you are saying here regarding them vs. the present or past administration. I suspect they are suspect no matter who is in charge. But that's my point. At the very least, their own numbers should back up these narratives they throw out there. Like they say for instance, Florida has the worst outbreak, etc. Biden says that on tv. Yet if you look on the CDC website, it shows cases dropping fast and it shows deaths dropped like a rock as soon as Desantis used the antibody centers (which they are now trying to deny them). Am I missing something?
@Lekimball
With your point as clarified above, I fully agree. My meaning was simply that I find that I am not able to trust *any source of information anymore. None. And some of them have been relatively reliable (to the best of my knowledge), for most of my life. I am neither a follower nor a fan of the bible, but I am often amazed that it retains even the amount of truth that it frequently does. Lately, I am having a difficult time avoiding the comparison with the present picture, to the biblical story of the Tower of Babel. Interestingly enough, the "many languages" all turn out to be English, and yet I find that I do not *fully understand and/or trust *any of them anymore. So mine was not an attempt to discredit your point made above, but just underscoring the fact that I don't see numbers I am able to trust coming out of *any level, from the CDC on up. In that view, it was an effort to underscore your point.
Ah, now your point is clearer as well. I thought that might be what you meant. Not that I trust the CDC but you'd think their own narratives would match, eh? :)
Just checked again.Looks like Texas is up more than a couple days ago, but not Florida and not most of the US. overall. So not sure I get this hysteria. Not even clear the cases overall are heading up and deaths much lower than last surge at least so far. We will see, I guess. But I don't think that is true yet in very many places.
That antibody thing worked great in Florida so of course Biden has to stop that.
My son went to a hospital in Los Angeles when they said it was overflowing and took pictures. The staff said no one called to inquire. He said the hospital ICU was empty and so was the waiting room.
Where is the LIST? I will start calling as they still are not separating Pneumonia, heart attacks and cancer from co-morbidity deaths.
All the deaths claimed by COVID are less than 1%.
1% would equal 3,400,000 deaths
1/2% = 1,700,000
1/4 of 1% = 850,000
We're talking LESS than one quarter of 1% and that's including all CO-Morbidity deaths (Heart attack, Stroke, Pneumonia, Flu, liver failure, Kidney failure PRE EXISTING.
CDC Director: ‘I Think You’re Correct’ About Inflated COVID Death Statistics 2021 8.18
https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/cdc-director-i-think-youre-correct-about-inflated-covid-death,
But no one adjusted those stats to insure we would NEVER KNOW!
Yep, the same so far in our hospitals. Part of the bed shortage is staffing--lots of people quit when they were forced to be vaccinated. I'm sure there are places it's more severe. But it's clear they are forming a false narrative to some degree. But if things change, we can adjust.
Lol
You are confusing trained with educated.
Not seeing any big confusion there. Both education and training can lead to critical thinking but neither one correlates absolutely. It does correlate with intelligence because it requires that you make no surface decisions but look at a problem from all angles. It requires that you not reject or accept information based on preconceived ideas for or against the status quo. It also, like the positions of most real scientists, requires a somewhat open mind--that if information changes, so might your conclusions. That's why I find it so hard to comprehend people are completely for or against vaccines--all vaccines. But it's odd the way they assume the vaccine hesitant and/or Trump supporters were uneducated. I presume they are relying on faulty poll data because more health care workers, professional people, business owners, even doctors I know, are both.
How so?
IOW’s Liberal Art majors
A timely comment from another blogger, about the difference between knowledge, education, credentials, and faith in credentials:
"This is what Vico was talking about in his discussions of the flight into abstraction as one of the things that drives the collapse of societies — in place of concrete realities (practical know-how), you have an abstract representation of that reality (an education), then an abstract representation of that abstraction (a certificate), and then an abstract representation of the abstraction of the abstraction (“trust science!”) — and usually it’s right around then that the wheels do in fact come off." https://www.ecosophia.net/the-negative-sum-economy
These halfwits confuse being credentialed with being educated, and educated with being intelligent and competent. Meanwhile they denigrate critical thinking and embrace groupthink. If these are the smart ones, I'll relish my idiocy.
Not exactly. The problem is not so much that people confuse being credentialed with being intelligent and competent -- that's only derivative. It's not the real source of the rage at the bottom. The bigger problem is they *also* confuse being intelligent and competent, very largely immutable characteristics like other identities, with being *morally* superior.
If we didn't have a fetish for, and keep rewarding, intelligence as a *moral* attribute, it would be a (relatively) simple thing to find the truly smartest to lead us, and -- as long as we could also examine who also had superior character attributes -- the rest would know enough to follow them. People would stop obsessing over getting credentialed.
By analogy, one ordinarily has no problem seeking, say, a physically strong person to move a big piece of furniture. Does a healthy but non-muscular small person feel shame over their muscular weakness?
@Anti-Hip
Very incisive, and insightful post, Thank you !
They shouldn't. There's nothing wrong with asking for help.
Charles Atlas got rich years ago preying the 98 lb weakling….today that weakling is to be admire in a non-binary way
Yes, and not sure if Matt really made this point or not.
I reached the same conclusion in his inference about vaccines. There's decades of positive results for polio and smallpox vaccines because they use traditional methods and materials to create them. mRNA vaccines are not the same and have never been pushed onto an entire world population within a few months of their creation - especially not as a vaccine - before CoVid came along.
Yep. From this post and past posts, Matt seems to just accept the narrative that anybody who doesn't take this vaccine has been misinformed or is uneducated. Or is making a political statement. Not that he thinks they should be forced, I don't think. Just the inference, they know nothing about "science." Same mentality as the the over-simplified climate change hoopla. If you question any of their propaganda, you aren't very smart (but the powers that be are just handling it all wrong and it's backfiring, seems to be his position--but of COURSE vaccines are the only way to handle this). That seems to be his position which seems to lack real investigation or critical thinking --something he's so good at. Especially with vaccines failing like this, you'd think they'd at least question if this was really the right thing to do at all. Probably would have been better to let the mutations compete and used the antibody and therapeutics on older people. These idiots STILL do not have that antibody treatment available like it should have been. Trump was talking about doing that when he left and it's only recently been available or promoted--along with any therapeutics, and now since it's working in Florida and Texas, Biden wants to restrict distribution there -- kill them in all in the name of control and politics. Lots of possible disasters on the horizon if they've been wrong about all this...
You have described the shit -fog that we are living under...I have taken to referring to the current political climate as Medical McCarthyism. In the Fall 2021 edition of The New Atlantis there is an article by the editor "What Is the CDC?" It is worth the read! As I'm sure both you & Mark will remember, the first thing we were told was that the manufacturers of these * vaccines* were indennified
From Thomas Sowell, “Intellectuals and Society” chapter 1 - Intellect and Intellectuals:
“Intellect is not wisdom…Sheer brainpower—intellect, the capacity to grasp and manipulate complex concepts and ideas—can be put at the service of concepts and ideas that lead to mistaken conclusions and unwise actions, in light of all the factors involved, including factors left out of some of the ingenious theories constructed by the intellect.
Brilliance—even genius—is no guarantee that consequential factors have not been left out or misconceived.”
Also:
“The capacity to grasp and manipulate complex ideas is enough to define intellect but not enought to encompass intelligence, which involves combining intellect with judgment and care in selecting relevant explanatory factors and in establishing empirical tests of any theory that emerges.
Intelligence minus judgment equals intellect.
Wisdom is the rarest quality of all—the ability to combine intellect, knowledge, experience, and judgment in a way to produce a coherent understanding. Wisdom is the fulfillment of the ancient admonition, 'With all your getting, get understanding.' Wisdom requires self-discipline and an understanding of the the realities of the world, including the limitations of one's own experience and of reason itself. The opposite of high intellect is dullness or slowness, but the opposite of wisdom is foolishness, which is far more dangerous.
George Orwell said that some ideas are so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them, for no ordinary man could be such a fool.”
:-)
It's a pseudomeritocracy because the people involved and most hateful of the uneducated are actually completely incompetent and less educated than a high schooler from a few decades ago. It's participation trophy meritocracy.
Exactly
It's actually, "my parents went there and I have a lot of money" meritocracy.
"I should be able to look down on the plebs no matter how many times I get caught in half assed lies, prove to be incompetent, and shown I am not that bright!" - America's elites
"I was assured that my Oberlin degree was my ticket to the upper class, and by God I will have my rightful prerogatives!"
….you forgot “…and be bailed out by taxpayers when I screw up!”
So what is the definition of "elite" these days .... is that just a catchall term for "snob"?
Sort of, but not really. There's snobs up and down the socioeconomic scale. As I apply it, elite means those elite university mopes that feel intelligence foresight, analytical ability, or anything else they might want to consider themselves as being...is certified by their elite university degree. The concept of "subsidiarity" does not apply to them; they feel that whatever situation they might find themselves in, they are the rightful heirs to dictate and assign, no matter how far removed from the topic at hand.
"Snob" is just an affectation. In Down and Out in Paris and London Orwell described the French waiters he worked with as being almost destitute snobs. My gut tells me the people working the Met Gala are cut from the same cloth, which is why I didn't have the same visceral negative reaction to the images of the aristos and their masked servants that other people did. It's a gross event full of gross people, but the guys arranging Marie Antoinette's dress desperately want to be there.
Elites are basically nobility, but we're not supposed to have that sort thing these days, so we call it something else. It's most apparent in the UK with their out in the open upper class pipeline through Eton. There are similar private schools in the US, but you've probably never heard of them.
Deplorable snobs
Hm, I am not sure about this. I have an MFA degree and was an adjunct professor -- and it is true that much of this left Marxism is being driven by university indoctrination and these "educated" people believe that all conservatives and particularly Trump supporters are uneducated Walmart shopping rubes. But even though that's the narrative droned on by media, university elites and Hollywood, I think this stereotype and framing of this divide is inaccurate. I know health care workers, business people, professional people, and even a few college professors and teachers--actually people from all walks of life -- who are part of this divide because they are educated and students of history. And the same holds true with the over-simplification you insist upon ascribing to people with vaccine hesitancy. There is also a cross section of people not wanting to take this vaccine and they are not anti-science or even pro or anti Trump. I taught argument classes and I know all vaccines are not the same and this one has not been studied. There are probably next to NO people who are actually anti-ALL-vaccines. Anyone who studies science also knows that since it has not been studied properly, the ADE effect, the Marek Effect, or some of the problems with flu shots. And the way these vaccines are behaving should give everyone pause. I'm not sure if it is your intention but you seem to be implying that only uneducated people are vaccine hesitant. It's true these are the narratives been regurgitated about both this vaccine AND people who supported Donald Trump, but it just isn't accurate on either count. Health care workers are educated people and they are among some of the biggest protestors about this vaccine mandate. I am a full time care taker for my father now (who has Parkinsons) and exactly half of the nurses and therapists who come in here refuse the vaccine to date and the others who got it were not happy about it. At any rate, I don't think your point is very clear here.
Agreed, I have a professional degree and also do a lot of research and what do you know, that also leads to vaccine hesitancy. The main stream wants to generalize and lump everyone that is not vaccinated in one easy “they are stupid” bucket. They also do that with Ivermectin. The veil is lifting and the shenanigans are coming into the light.
Yep - doctorate degree here, and same. In many cases it is “those that read the science” versus those that trust others to do so. Not all science is the same either - control the control group, and you control the result. Small sample size = less reliability. It’s critical thinking at issue here, and not for the side they want you to think.
If you're pretty smart, you know that "the science" tells you the vaccine is safe.
If you're very smart, you know that the science tells you that vaccine safety data tells you the vaccine safety out exactly as long as it's been used in people, i.e. a little over one year.
Lack of long term safety data is a perfectly rational reason to decline the vaccine. It's one's own bet to make.
My dad died of lung cancer after 20 years of ACE inhibitor use for blood pressure control. During his illness the medical journal articles emerged that 15 years of ACE inhibitor use caused a 40% increase in lung cancer risk. Science was pretty sure they were the best thing for him decades ago.
I came down on the side of vaccinating myself because the worst vaccine safety surprise I know of still was only a 1 in 10,000 side effect and it wasn't so likely to happen at all anyway. I also took heart from the fact that Zika and other viruses have had clinical mRNA vaccines years ago and no safety signal.
If I have a side effect in 30 years I don't care. Very different math in terms of vaccinating my kids, though.
@Luna
Cogent point, thanks to you as well.
Sample size is important. Someone needs to invent a metric on the retrospective power of a study to see a result at a given interesting level. Until then, look at the 95% confidence intervals.
I could randomly sample three men and three women in the United States and most of the time get a result that doesn't conclude statistically that they have different average height.
Leaky vaccines can cause huge problems and it may actually be THE VACCINATED and the government that are not acting for the "greater good." It remains to be seen. Way too early to tell, but we know things are not going as they planned or predicted. In the Marek Effect on chickens, they could be forcing the virus in the middle of a pandemic to be more deadly in which case everybody WILL have to be vaccinated now, when it had a survival rate of 99% and should have been left alone. Not to mention, Fauci causing this with the gain of function garbage - a prediction I made for years--told my friends it would not be climate change--it would be these idiots messing with things they know nothing about. If it's ADE, there could be a future mutation that enhances pathology for the vaccinated and kills them all. I swear sometimes they know this is possible and want everybody in t he same boat in case it's true. Too many live conservatives. Ok, I'm kidding here. But they really know next to nothing about this virus or the vaccines and that should be obvious. I am not even sure the data is right that vaccinated are getting less ill. Not supported in UK, or I think Iceland. They are messing with these statistics. Bottom line, people better lose weight and get healthy if they want to be around on this planet long (another convenient thing--gets rid of the old and infirm mostly). I'm a writer so I have a good imagination... lots of story plots.
The more significant variants - e.g. Delta, arose in places like India with very low rates of vaccination, i.e. unlikely to have arisen in unvaxxed individuals ...
It arose in India WHEN they introduced the vaccines to India, so the jury's still out there.
Really - so the vaccine spread, like a virus and made those folks sick - gee, hadn't heard that one before ...
I think the argument is more about that the vaccine forces the virus to mutate around the vaccine, but it doesn't necessarily take that many people to get vaccinated for that to happen, the mutation just needs one person and then people to spread to.
Correction - unlike to have arisen in vaxxed individuals
Studies show vaccines increased infectivity and no reason why it went crazy in Israel and UK if they worked properly. Not conclusive that just because it initially spread there among unvaccinated that it didn't mutate from vaccinated individuals who were there or visiting. Natural immunity people aren't testing positive mostly. Way too little known. And we KNOW that vaccines in a pandemic cut down on the number of mutations and the competition, etc.
What studies? Mutate from vaccinated individuals but not from unvaccinated ones - how does that work? Sorta left out the influence of the Delta variant, eh - which arose in India where vaccination rate is quite low
No, they still do not know that it didn't originate from vaccinated people there and spread to the unvaccinated. I'll bet even YOU can mastermind your way around that, and some of the biggest surges are in vaccinated countries which shouldn't be the case. Read the NEw York Times article. Even they admit the vaccines could have caused Delta. But then YOU know everything.
SH, not sure if I am mistaking you, but India with very low rates of vaccination means with almost certainty that the variant arose in unvaxxed individuals. Why would lower vaccination rates make that "unlikely"?
Harry, just because it spread in India doesn't mean the mutation happened in unvaxxed individuals first. It seems very strange if it didn't happen in vaxed individuals that it would have spread so widely in UK and Israel where the vaccination rate is so high. That just doesn't make sense. It could, however, happen that vaxed people made the mutation and many unvaxxed people in India contracted it. I just don't think the narrative makes sense the way you want to spin it. It just wouldn't have spread so widely in the vaccinated population so quickly. Not impossible, but more likely the other way around. You'd think the vaccinated wouldn't have been infected to that rate.
Correction - unlikely to have arisen in vaxxed individuals ...
Reminds me of what Chomsky said - allow very vigorous debate within relatively strict guidelines. Un-vaccinated have been moved outside those guidelines.
Just like if you don't vote, for example.
@Alison
Said shenanigans cannot come to light fast enough ! Thank you so much for your input. I am guessing that you KNOW how starved is the general public for even a FEW brief words on this subject that come from someone who seems to know what the hell she is *talking about !
Great Gratitude !
I am a Physician and took the vaccine. I am still not sure it was the right decision. For many this is not a clear cut benefit.
Am a retired physician - who got the J&J - think we need better vaccines and the failure of current vaccine makers to provide quantities available for trials against new candidates ("the competition") may make new candidates very difficult to test ...
But at this point, the ones we have seem to reduce incidence of disease requiring hospitalization and death, that's something ...
Seems to. Natural immunity seems to be the “gold standard”
For those who survive ....
Hope you know the numbers. If you are under 60 survival 99%+.
Depends on the status of your immune system, and, i suspect, how big a dose you get ....
This new theory of evolution through natural selection has too much design and not enough science. Is having enough money the new standard for evolution? What ever happened to random chance.
Much of my cohort and I received the Astra Zeneca vaccine. Our mortality rates and the low numbers requiring hospital care say its efficacy was equal to Pfizer and Moderna and it came at a fraction of the financial cost and our government has been excellent stewards of our money. After decades of austerity and investing in our future OUR government was running income surpluses and our economy was growing, growing and growing. While this election is about jobs west of Quebec here the election is about getting workers and immigration.
I grew up taught to worship America. I no longer worship it I would love to help save it.
I lived for over a decade in America and it is difficult to wean a civilization off a steady diet of BS.
As a physician, do you have a medical/science explanation as to why we (the public) still seem to know next to nothing about *who* is susceptible to developing severe symptoms and death, and who is not? How can healthy 30-year-olds drop dead within days, while 95% of all seniors eventually recover?
Part of the resistance is surely the low overall IFR people see. But the susceptibility dimension is studiously ignored by TPTB and the media. If this were another Black Death plague, people would be fighting to get in the clinic doors.
Any word on Novavax being approved in 2021?
I live in Quebec. We are a secular humanist liberal democracy. We voters are the ultimate authority and put public health experts in charge of making decisions on public health. My cohort of 60 and over is over 90% vaccinated and those of us over 75 are 93%. Our first wave was concurrent with the wave in NYC and it devastated our private long-term care facilities. We are in a new wave and most of those in our hospitals are unvaccinated and our hospitals are not being taxed and mortality total per day average in a population of 8.5 million has gone from just below one death a day to an average of two.
Life is far too complex to ask the questions you want to ask. I trust the experts and their peer reviews over my gut reactions knowing that in our liberal democracy the peers doing the reviewing work for us not Pfizer, Moderna or Purdue pharmaceutical.
Yes there is risk that somehow the vaccine will adversely affect our "evolution" but are we really evolving or just adapting to change?
This vaccine did not finish the 5th step in Clinical Trials they
1. Are having a difficult time with the DOSE hence Boosters.
2. They find that the vaccine does change or create new DNA in the host genome.
3. Vaccinated can spread COVID just as effectively as the Unvaccinated
4. Naturally Immune or those who had COVID and generated Antibodies have longer lasting immunity
5. Any vaccinated who died within 42 days of their 1st JAB is recorded as Unvaccinated on their death certificate (to inflate #s of Unvaccinated).
6. We will never know how many people died from the JAB itself because they usually die within 2 weeks of injection.
https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/cdc-director-i-think-youre-correct-about-inflated-covid-death,
7. They no longer consider CO morbidity when recording COVID deaths.
8. FINALLY - CDC report notes, “For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.”
I think there is some hanky panky or Hokey Pokey "And that's what it's all about".
7. Why aren't there Immunity Passports?
8. Everyone should be tested for immunity before being JABBED.
I'm an emergency physician and have attended three lectures by national vaccine experts in the last year. I also follow the medical literature on the subject. Some of what you write here is completely unsupported by any scientific research. I've spent my career filling out death certificates. It is frequently difficult to know the exact cause of death, but most of the people who have died of Covid have spent weeks dying and the cause is pretty obvious. Of course, many of the people who have died of Covid are very old, are grossly overweight, have diabetes or heart disease, but they are still dead and the proximate cause of their death is Covid. There is an article this week in the NEJM looking at one million people in Israel who have been vaccinated and looking at the side effects. I think if people were dying from the vaccine, that would be pretty obvious in this well-designed and controlled study. With regard to your point 4, there is an article from Israel that suggests that prior Covid infection provides better protection than the vaccine. With regard to the claim that the vaccine changes or creates new DNA, please cite your source. Everything I have read belies that claim.
With regard to natural infection providing better immunity - that may be so, with any disease, but do we want to do away with vaccines and wait to "thin out the herd" - I think that is an approach that we, as a species, decided against when we decided to develop them ....
I agree with you. I'm simply looking at the current medical literature. Personally, I agree with the CDC recommendation that people who have had the infection should get one vaccination, but it may turn out not to be necessary. I find many of the comments here about the vaccine to be stupefyingly ignorant and based on scribblings they've pulled off the Internet.
The only thing you can actually do for society is get the bug and get over it without spreading it. It's okay, you're a hero. You can do it.
Or get it and die ...
Besides, by you logic, why should I worry about spreading it?
I can lessen the odds of spreading it by properly wearing a good mask ...
You're going to get it anyway. Only after you do will you be nearly certain you're not spreading the virus.
That's what helps society, right?
Why don't you want to do the one thing helps society?
If you’re interested I just came across this from CBER Haven’t watched it yet. Apparently it was live-streamed yesterday https://youtu.be/WFph7-6t34M
Why has the FDA denied boosters to all but the elderly?
Where are the reports of Children Conceived under Vaccine?
YOU Can not know how many people have died from the Vaccine because it only refers to people who died AFTER 42 days. Those who die from the shot will die within 2 weeks.
Explain, with your "Know it all PHD"' how YOU can tell the difference when signing a death certificate.
Also how do you know the difference between those who died WITH Covid and those who died BECAUSE of COVID?
This is the nature of RNA:
Retroviral vectors are fascinating and efficient delivery tools for the transfer of nucleic acids. As a hallmark, all retroviruses are capable of reverse transcribing their single stranded RNA genome into double stranded DNA, which will be stably integrated into the host cell genome. Animal DNA integrated into the HOST GENOME
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ebd0/27a94710d6eb05afbf1ed84079f69aff9afc.pdf
Explain why you think this isn't happening.
The Jab should not even be called a VACCINE because it doesn't do anything except REDUCE SYMPTOMS. You still carry the disease and you can still infect other people and you can get it yourself,,,, again.
Immunity - the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.
(Medicine) protected against a specific disease by inoculation or as the result of innate or acquired resistance.
Vaccine -
The purpose of a vaccine is to provide the person receiving it with immunity to a particular microorganism.
The vaccine does not grant Immunity.
OK - so the retrovirus may transcribe itself - but the vaccine is not the virus - does the vaccine contain that same reverse transcriptase? And if not, how does it get into host DNA?
Also - a vaccine is as a vaccine does - and these "vaccines" result in antibody production - are they perfect - no, we need better ones - but they are better at reducing severe illness and death than the virus ...
It becomes DNA/ " DNA, which will be stably integrated into the host cell genome."
I respect your MD and experience and I ask that you Please read the PI if you haven’t. I think the changing DNA etc is pretty far off base IMO. Here comes the “but”
I work in development and I can tell you from a regulatory and clinical dev perspective despite being available for less than 1 year, this therapeutic must be the most perfect in history - there are no contraindications listed other than allergy to components (prob PPG) and practically no AEs other than ISR and flu-like symptoms.
As a physician you know that even MMR has more contraindications and DEATHS and certainly decades of data than does this experimental (yet oddly approved) shot. It’s why we still have a vaccine victims compensation board which by the way is not applicable to COVID injections.
But more than the science (which apparently changes based on who is allowed to speak on any given day) I object to compelling people to participate in clinical trials (even Ph III) It is completely against ICH guidelines AND The Declaration of Helsinki. ALL other required “vaccines” have long term safety profiles AND exemptions. The only exemption here seems to be for illegal alien.
Btw the fastest priority review and approval I have ever personally seen tooK almost 1 year AFTER phase I and ongoing Ph II w multiple interim analyses. That was for an actual vaccine with a slight change for an additional indication.
I am open to reputable sources who can make a solid case for forced medication in the absence of At least 2-3 yrs and ongoing (sort of long term) CLEAN safety reporting
Disclaimer: I encourage ANYONE who wants the shot to get it ASAP ESPECIALLY those in high risk categories and/or without conclusive T-cell immunity.
We're in the middle of pandemic from which millions of people have died. Government taking its time is exactly what happened at the beginning of the pandemic when the CDC blocked private labs from developing test kits and it was impossible for me to test anyone. I'm personally quite comfortable about the competency and thoroughness of the approval process. I understand why people might be hesitant to be vaccinated, particularly with the reams of nonsense on the internet; all you have to do is to read some of the comments here to see how much ignorant nonsense is out there. But there are very good quality studies which have examined the side effects in millions of recipients. Read this weeks New England Journal which studied side effects in a million recipients. It is very clear that for most individuals the vaccine is far safer than the disease. If this was a compulsory vaccine against Marburg or Ebola, what you say might make sense, since the likelihood of exposure would be virtually zero. However, with Covid 19, virtually everyone will be exposed sooner or later. Incidentally, there is a Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program for the Covid vaccine, which varies from the national vaccine injury compensation program, but I don't understand the differences.
They should at least wait till the first Children whose mothers were vaccinated and CONCIEVED, under the influence of the vaccine, are BORN.
It is asserted that the vaccine does create DNA in the vaccinated. Prove it.
Are you a molecular biologist specializing in the study of DNA synthesis, DNA replication, RNA reverse transcriptase, the biology of transposons, retroviral-like retrotransponsons or nonretrovial retrotransposons?
It doesn't create DNA It becomes DNA:
Retroviral vectors are fascinating and efficient delivery tools for the transfer of nucleic acids. As a hallmark, all retroviruses are capable of reverse transcribing their single stranded RNA genome into double stranded DNA, which will be stably integrated into the host cell genome. Animal DNA integrated into the HOST GENOME
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ebd0/27a94710d6eb05afbf1ed84079f69aff9afc.pdf
You're now my go-to guy for Covid info.
Agreed that there should be more focus on testing and recording natural immunity if transmission is the government concern and there should be no vaccine mandates, especially for the naturally immune—it makes no sense.
The problem with that (from government thinking) is that many low-risk people will correctly choose to get the virus rather than the jab.
That's not acceptable to the leaders because this isn't really about the virus.
Totally agree.
#4 - no proof of that - hasn't been studies long enough
#2 - proof?
#8 - tested for what antibodies? what amount?
"mRNA COVID vaccine is a first for humans."
There is a question as to weather it's even a VACCINE as all it does is reduce the effects and they don't even know for how long (Breakthroughs) and they can still spread the contagion.
They don't even know the effects on reproduction but do know it changes Menstrual cycles. How will it effect the DNA of children?
Come on, you can't be that POLITICALLY motivated to the point that you're not even CURIOUS?
It is a vaccine by definition.
"a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease"
Now is it uniformly effective? No. But then again is any vaccine 100% effective? Not everyone responds to vaccination with an effective immune response.
"How will it effect the DNA of children?" Since you are asking the question provide the rationale that it would affect their DNA. To do so, it would have to behave like a retroviral-like retrotransposon and have reverse transcriptase properties. The vaccine only contains the RNA for the Spike protein.
Apart from making an assertion and repeating a widely spread meme from the internet where are your data to make such a conjecture. Of course, you will use the fact that you worded the meme as a question rather than a proven fact. Earlier you presented it as fact.
It's the "provide immunity" part that's lacking. The jab doesn't stop transmission.
It does not provide immunity if you can catch it again. NO ONE knows how it will affect anything YET! It has not been tested long enough!
Political? Maybe what he hears from doctors and medical professionals just seems to make a little more sense to him than the glib, uninformed, clownish, amatuer gibberish you traffic in. Who gives a shit what your opinions on the vaccines are? Why would you get out of bed in the morning and even think you had anything of value or importance to say to others on the science of virology? You have an opinion. A very uninformed opinion. Opinions are cheaper and more annoying than lawn weeds. I got the Pfizer vaccine because, crazy me, when it comes to medical issues, medical professionals are the people I tend to consult and listen to for advice.
The vast majority of human beings exhibit these very same traits and behaviors. So far it's worked out marvelously for me. You don't trust the vaccines? Don't get a vaccine shot. Nobody, and I mean nobody, gives two hoots in hell about your reasons for not getting a vaccine, or your opinions on the vaccines themselves. And they sure as hell have no need to read your transcribed, cherry-picked, second-hand source material, most of it erroneous and all of it tediously redundant.
But in the meantime, why not shut the fuck up about a serious subject you know comparably NOTHING about? Use your time more productively. Why don't you call up your dentist and make an appointment to have your brakes worked on? Or your mechanic to see if he can fit you in next week for a root canal. Watch out for the experts, though---they're snootier than hell!
Doctors Nurses:
Doctors and nurses, other health professionals—E.M.T.s, home health aides, therapists—are generally less likely to say that they’ll get immunized, and a recent survey of C.N.A.s found that nearly 75% were hesitant to get the vaccine. “In many cases, vaccine hesitancy is not a lack-of-information problem, it’s a lack-of-trust problem,” David Grabowski, a professor of health-care policy at Harvard, told me.
“Staff doesn’t trust leadership. They have a real skepticism of government.
https://www.newyorker.com/science/medical-dispatch/why-are-so-many-health-care-workers-resisting-the-covid-vaccine
Aunt Martha, Sweetie, time for bed. Try to lower your blood pressure. Take your UNAUTHORIZED booster if it makes you feel better.
It does provide some protection against the virus HOWEVER it’s primary endpoint is symptom reduction especially in high risk individuals (largely the same high risk people as seasonal flu)
Well, for a non-vaccine it is pretty good at producing antibodies ...
You are apparently not a woman or you would know that a lot of things can change menstrual cycles ...
Hmmm, of course you're not "politically motivated", are you ....
What makes you think I'm a Republican man? You ASS ume
Did I ever say I thought you were a Rep?
Why did you ASS ume I did?
Just because you are well educated d does not mean that you should consider yourself knowledgeable in the area of vaccines. "These vaccines have not been studied". That is patently a false statement. They do not have years of real world use this is true; however, every vaccination means one more data point in an accumulating mass of information.
What you appear to be describing is how a person manages the perception of risk. Generally people fear what they do not know and do not understand. As such COVID-19 is frightening. This is particularly the case when there are so many conflicting narratives. Nevertheless, with what is known thus far, individuals vaccinated against COVID-19 are much less likely to have morbidity and mortality than those who are not. Additionally, various methods of assessing vaccine safety support the safety of vaccination. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
Many of the mountains of adverse events reported are not serious. Deaths attributed to a vaccine occur in the setting of millions of injections and are frequently confounded. Additionally, individuals ignore that fact that even among healthy people who are young there is an underlying rate of death. Greater than 380 million doses of vaccine have been administered in the US alone and more than 5 billion globally. Where are the bodies?
There may be a number of healthcare workers who refuse vaccination. However, given the nuance of medicine and biology it is inappropriate to assume that all healthcare workers are equally capable of assessing risk. This is why we have individuals trained in virology, molecular biology, infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Unfortunately, the governance of the US has been so blatantly poor over the past 30+ years that trust is at an all time low. I don't consider Trump supporters to be particularly poorly educated or lacking in intelligence. What I think binds many of them together is a sense of being betrayed by the Power Elite of this country. Shifting manufacturing overseas has immiserated millions of people and led to a powerful backlash against authority. The denigration of government and the creation of the mindless bureaucrat meme (all for political advantage) has done as much as anything to create suspicion and a lack of trust amongst the populace. This mistrust expresses into in a number of potential self-harming behaviors.
YES, As an Independent who didn't vote for either party, I can understand why they feel so disenfranchised. They were the working people. Democrats are the Welfare people. They saw the US becoming a Welfare State like the failing Central and South American countries.
Now that we're slowly retracting from foreign intrigue, perhaps more money can be funneled into education to make our Citizens more educated. Kids today have no Idea what the laws are, they have no idea of our history of development and have NO Notion of the Constitution, Bill of Rights or that the Magna Carta provided the foundation for individual rights in Anglo-American jurisprudence.
And they won't if the far left is kept in charge of education. But we needed those charter schools and better education for sure. I hope so, but not holding out much hope.
I don't need to be an expert in vaccines, only an expert on my own body.
And that's you? Right...
I don't claim to be an expert on anybody's body but myself. The idea that I could make medical decisions for another is laughable.
Yet you guys don't seem to have a problem with it.
Oh please. Vaccines usually take an average of ten years to be approved and studied. Just because that technology was started does NOT qualify. You know nothing about this particular one and they've been wrong constantly on their predictions. And under-reporting injuries.
Oh please, you know nothing about the development of either drugs or vaccines. Following your logic would you want to wait for 10 years to develop a vaccine for a virus with a 5%, 10%, 20% mortality? Currently, ICUs are packed and in Idaho, at least, care is being "rationed". Now if everyone with serious and life-threatening infection was just herded into a hospice-care setting and 1918 rules applied then sure let's await perfection and greater certainty. People started vaccinating with dried scrapings from smallpox scabs centuries ago. A little bit more is known about immunology, virology, and molecular biology since then.
Over 380 million doses of vaccine has been administered in the US. Regions with high vaccinations rates are showing dramatically lower rates of infection. Regions with low vaccination rates have overflowing ICUs and delayed elective surgeries due to insufficient beds and staff. If things are so sinister where are the bodies from the vaccinated?
No WAY, the conclusions they draw from Iceland and UK and more are ludicrous but Iceland has a huge surge right now and is totally vaccinated. You KNOW NOTHING about it. THey seem to think this makes them closer to herd immunity, I GUESS because vaccines makes them MORE contagious. So maybe the NATURAL immunity will achieve this. We will see. It's insanity.
https://news.yahoo.com/delta-covid-surge-iceland-very-090430761.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKUouTLRuSogOFhP5K42DAifB8mUXWwvuzqI6UeKikfNTpQxdvVuVz89d_3mT5it5J-6AMehVMmmlLsqlHhlxjPU28qve7DF9bEx3UikX4gi4mmY3BzfRIP2eC3hY9fS5nLxdzEObRjvnAVCVS3mhRusk_1kos9byFhUayOKgwxg
I'll bet I know more about it than you do. And you are not right about those statistics in the UK or Israel. You better keep reading.
Maybe you should read the entire article:
"The 20 percent of Icelanders who didn’t get vaccinated or haven’t already had COVID are now catching Delta, alongside breakthrough cases of vaccinated people. (Children under 16, who aren’t yet eligible for vaccination, make up most of the unvaccinated population). A couple thousand people have tested positive in recent weeks, a spike in cases far exceeding the worst weekly case-rates from 2020.
But hospitalizations have not surged to the same degree as cases in this latest Icelandic surge. That’s because older Icelanders, as a group, are highly vaccinated. Younger people, who as a group are less vaccinated, are the ones getting infected now."
Note that "hospitalizations have not surged". What about Idaho, Louisiana, Misssissippi, and Florida?
Children are also making up a larger percentage of the hospitalizations because they are not vaccinated. The Delta variant is also around 6-8 times more infectious than the original strain (R0 or approximately 8). So naturally, the Delta variant spreads faster and infects more people in a shorter period of time.
So, no, you know very little about vaccines, transmission of infectious disease, healthcare policy, and definitely nothing about the interpretation of complex data. I rather doubt it has crossed your mind that more people infected equals not only more immediate strain on the healthcare system but also a much greater chance of the development of more virulent strains and strains with larger R0 values. And you also failed to mention the following in one of your sources:
"What’s happening in Iceland right now might be one of the final stages in the long, often painful process by which a country achieves some form of population-level herd immunity against a dangerous virus."
Perhaps that goal will be achieved because they will weather the Delta variant and because they have a high percentage of the population vaccinated.
I read the whole article and I posted it because you said vaccinated areas had lower spread and you of course are wrong. In Iceland, in Israel and in the UK. they have huge surges and are the most vaccinated. I think their conclusions are pretty worrisome since if the vaccine increases infectivity AND escape mutations, the NEXT mutation may cause ADE. Increased pathology and all scientists know this is at least a possibility. So stop saying inaccurate things. Some of the most highly vaccinated places have the worst outbreaks. That alone should give you pause or at least make you ask questions. But to someone who knows everything, it probably doesn't.
You can access this week's New England Journal which has a study of one million people who received the vaccine and compared the side effects to unvaccinated controls. You don't need a subscription to read it. It's a very well-written study in the most prestigious medical journal and it's free to read.
Ok, I just took a quick peak and already I just read some contradictory information -- I just read yesterday from some "conventional reputable" place I forget where, I admit, yesterday, saying the real virus does not cause Bell's Palsy, shingles or myocarditis in young people for sure. And we know the vaccines shed that spike protein (my father gave me shingles). And of course, if they are calling everybody unvaccinated who got sick between doses, that is problematic -- and they are. For a survival rate of over 98% it's incredible they didn't stop vaccines after the usual number of injuries and there are have been thousands instead of hundreds. Even the Atlantic ran an article about how they were calling even people in there with something else and mild disease severe covid. So the big problem right off the bat is we know they are messing with this data.
Your father gave you Shingles! You got Shingles because you were infected with Herpes zoster as a child, it became dormant in the dorsal root ganglia of your spinal cord where it happily resided until it reactivated one day began replicating and then expressed itself by following the nerves from your spinal cord to your skin.
Oh and what does "And we know the vaccines shed the spike protein (my father gave me shingles)" even mean? Are you drawing on "personal experience" and independent and unrelated events and conflating them to support your opinion? You may read widely but you know very little about infectious diseases or virology.
And p.s. the article appears to say nothing about some of the vaccine disasters like ADE (Dengue), or Marek's effect in chickens. Years ago, a PBS special on how vaccines cause more severe disease. We don't know the overall effects of this on society down the road--they are just hoping they guessed right.
Well we do know about the effect of the disease ...
Don't worry - I won't vaccinate my chickens ...
Just great you have an ability to conflate all sorts of "true" but irrelevant information to support your thesis. As far as guessing right (I'll agree with that), well I would rather have someone leading the charge with a well grounded educated guess than an ignorant and arrogant individual who has "done their own research" and cherry picks information to support their ignorance.
You are the only arrogant person here. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm asking questions which is what Matt started this blog for. Only YOU think you have all the answers.
and p.s. This whole substack thing was founded so that we could ask questions and have a debate. You and some others on here think I shouldn't ask those questions or discuss research I've found by other scientists. The arrogance of that is breath taking. Instead of arguing the issues and giving your reasons, you not only think everybody should do what you/they say, you think I should be quiet, don't you? You apparently don't understand the whole purpose here.
I might do that, though they are messing with these statistics. People with only one vaccine are "unvaccinated" and they don't even consider that might be a vaccine injury or side effect. And other problems with their numbers. But will give it a read. I read all sides of this and I read vaccine history issues as well. Will be surprised if that is included there. But because the technology has been around ten years has nothing to do with actual clinical trials on safety over time that are normally done and obviously were not. So we'll see.
And of course, you in the nanny state, know what's best for all of us.
Another tell! The nanny state! I'll bring down the nanny state with my powerful vaccine disinformation! Ever tried an ivermectin milkshake? Unbelievably tasty and cures covid to boot!
CHeck the NIH website and look at just how many studies are being done on ivermectin and read the abstracts -- they think some combination of it might have real merit. You couldn't think critically if you had to choose between breathing air or water. I have never heard anyone spout talking points more than you do. There are over 28 studies being done right now.
And you the "bearer or truth" will doubtless inflict your ego and muddled thinking on the rest of us. So long as you pay out of pocket for all COVID-19 related medical expenses that would be acceptable.
YOU are the "bearer of truth" clearly. I am saying nobody knows what is going on with this but YOU think you know enough that only a fool wouldn't take it or it should be mandated. It could be YOU causing the disaster going forward and there is science supporting that possibility I'm not telling ANYONE to get it or not get it. But YOU are advocating for vaccines, oh "bearer of truth." Let it be on your head. And don't give me this socialist bullshit about paying for YOUR mistakes. Get real. 80% of the people dying of this and getting sick and FAT. Even vaccinated. Why should we pay for their irresponsibility and poor health. Just because they get a shot? You wait. You'll be eating your words soon.
Ah...
You reveal your true underlying intentions. I figured it would not take too long.
According to you: "I am saying nobody knows what is going on..." That is a very far reaching conclusion. There is always uncertainty when it comes to information, nevertheless, well informed and knowledgeable individuals can make good decisions. You want to misdirect from those decisions.
I am advocating for vaccines, this is true. The evidence is overwhelming that vaccines provide protection. They are not perfect but they definitely decrease the risk of severe disease and death. If they decrease the probability of penetration within a population then they will also decrease the risk of the emergence of a more virulent mutation.
"Why should we pay for their irresponsibility and poor health"...
Sure, but there are also people who are not obese or reprobates who are infected as well. Should "we" pay for them? Should "we pay" for those who refuse vaccination because it is their "right"? I'm rather reminded of the family whose child was not vaccinated for tetanus. That child became infected and suffered for months in the hospital often requiring periods of drug-induced paralysis and ventilation because of the spasms. The family refused to have that child vaccinated even after the child had recovered. The hospital bill was over $800,000. Should we pay for that?
So you have inferred that I am a "Socialist" and think "Socialist" bullshit thoughts. No, I just think that you should bear the consequences of your behaviors. As freedom loving and a critic of the "Nanny State" you most certainly should accept the cost of medical care should you become infected and have a particularly nasty course. Costs could easily expand into $500,000 or more. Why should I bear any burden (e.g., indirect cost of increased insurance premiums) to cover your rights? It is perfectly reasonable that a CEO of a major insurer would want to increase your rates or co-pays. Small price to pay for your freedom.
Don't be ludicrous. Not unless you plan to make every fat person, every alcoholic (one of my high school friends has run up quite a bill with cirrhosis these days, but oh yes, that is a DISEASE, that's right). Maybe we shouldn't treat her. Every smoker. Or rescue people who take a boat out on a bouncy day. Or treat someone who had no seatbelt on, eh? They deserved it. Just where do you think that stops? And don't think it will stop with this. They'd love nothing better than to control every single thing we do from cradle to grave. I just am not yet convinced vaccinating the whole population, low risk people was in any way right and we'll see who ends up being right. If it's wrong, it will be a disaster.... They are doing a clinical study on the whole population and trying to eliminate the control group. With no long term studies. We'll see, I guess.
Doctors and nurses, other health professionals—E.M.T.s, home health aides, therapists—are generally less likely to say that they’ll get immunized, and a recent survey of C.N.A.s found that nearly 75% were hesitant to get the vaccine.“In many cases, vaccine hesitancy is not a lack-of-information problem, it’s a lack-of-trust problem,” David Grabowski, a professor of health-care policy at Harvard, told me. “Staff doesn’t trust leadership. They have a real skepticism of government.
https://www.newyorker.com/science/medical-dispatch/why-are-so-many-health-care-workers-resisting-the-covid-vaccine
Front line professionals agree with you!
I am a care-taker and we have both N-Pallliative doctors and therapists in here all the time. At least half of them have no plans to be vaccinated and many are protesting in the capitol here. Very strange health care workers aren't lining up. I imagine they've seen vaccine injuries and many have natural immunity. Which is better. Yet they keep trying to associate vaccine hesitancy with low education and ignorance. I'd say health care workers are the most informed of all. My doctor friend is trying to decide if she quits or lets them own her body.
I really like your reply! Very thoughtful and nuanced. Well said.
Yes, thank you for this. I noticed this as a major blind spot in the article.
In case anyone is not familiar, Carnegie Mellon published a study on vaccine hesitancy based on a survey of 5 million people. Stratified by education level, it formed a U-curve, with the most hesitant falling into the "less than high-school diploma" and the "PhD" categories. 23% of people with PhDs that they surveyed were hesitant, and interestingly, the PhD percentage changed the least among the groups over the course of the study (Jan to May), suggesting that they were both most hesitant of all groups and also least likely to change their minds. https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/
It wasn't peer reviewed or published anywhere, as far as I can tell. "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1
Lots of research on covid is released on preprint servers because peer review takes months and we are in a dynamic, quickly changing situation. Should we look carefully at the data? Yes. But we should do so in any case because peer review has its own problems. If you don’t believe me, sign up for Retraction Watch (retraction of peer-reviewed research). Or read Ioannidis on why most published research is wrong. Ironically, he is one of the most cited researchers in history.
Ok, well the study was based on a Facebook poll, was funded by Facebook, and the education level was self-reported. The lead researcher said that people inflated their educational level. It's just not a good study, and it doesn't seem like it has been published anywhere since being uploaded.
oh my goodness, you are hilarious. Again only for the benefit of others who may be interested, the study was not based on a Facebook poll. Facebook was used to recruit participants to the study through their Data for Good initiative, where they are partnering with research institutions (such as Carnegie Mellon and U Pittsburgh in this case) to help conduct research.
All studies have limitations which should be identified and disclosed. One of the limitations of ALL large surveys is that they are always self-reported. 5 million people participated in this study. To verify the data provided by 5 million people is far beyond the scope of any survey-based study since the cost to do so would be absolutely prohibitive. Nowhere in the manuscript do the researchers suggest that there was inflation of education level among self-identified PhDs. In fact, in the limitations section they state "we assume the survey was completed in good faith" and note only concerns as to the self-described gender category. Also, out of 5 million respondents, there were 10,000 PhDs. Since that percentage is less than that in the general population, there is no real reason to suspect widescale misreporting.
Time from submission of an article to final publication (through editorial review, peer review, revisions, final editorial review, and publication) easily takes 4-6 months, and reasonably up to 8 if the journal allows longer time frames for peer reviewers to complete their review (up to 80 days at some journals) and researchers to complete their revisions.
The stated purpose of the study was to identify demographic areas of hesitancy so as to more effectively combat it, so these guys are actually on your team, shill. You should cut them some slack. :)
The lead researcher: “We found that people basically used it to write in political … statements,” King said. “So they weren’t genuine responses. They didn’t really complete the survey in good faith.” Maybe that quote is bogus? I suppose I could email her. What do you make of it? https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/
I am replying to this only for possible benefit to others, pharma troll. :)
Pharma has serious problems (shit, Purdue Pharma for example) but these vaccines are good. Please do your civic duty, don't be selfish, and go get your shot Patricia!
you are hilarious! And really a bit too transparent. You might want to dial it back a bit to do your job more effectively. :)
Sheesh I'm just a software developer specializing in computer graphics. I have no affiliation with Pharma. Stop being selfish!
Oh, that's right. But the government should force vaccines on people with no long term studies done on them and no informed consent --that should guide clinical practice.
That's true that happened, but of course the vaccine crowd claims they were "trolled" and people put that to mess up the numbers.
The covid vaccines have been extremely widely administered, so they've become some of the best studied vaccines around. Get the shot!
NOBODY but a doctor should ever tell anyone to get a shot. And even then, doctors recommend things. But of course YOU know more than doctors, scientists, and virologists who disagree with you. It never ceases to amaze me how you have NO guilt for recommending somebody take or NOT TAKE a vaccine. I'd never do that. It's the height of hubris and arrogance.
I have no guilt. Call up a bunch of doctors in your town and see what they say: they'll tell you to get the shot. Get the shot!
You should have guilt. My dad's house keeper died immediately afterward of a massive heart attack. Two young women we know have ongoing heart issues that have lasted six months. And my husband's friend who had already had it was talked into getting it and has Bell's Palsy for six months than is not resolving. He looks hideous. My father gave me shingles from it. Young people have died. No matter what the odds, I would not advise anyone either way. Nor would I want the responsibility of telling someone not to get it--they should talk to their doctor, check out their own health risks, and act appropriately.
Doctors have to advise you to get it or they'll get sued. That is the insurance driven conventional thing. They won't get sued for giving the CDC advice; they will get sued if they don't do it. And by the way, we have a doctor in our close friend group -- she's not getting it.
Wait - you say nobody but a doctor should ever tell anyone to get a shot - then you say doctors have to advise you to get it or they'll get sued - If that's the case, then a doctor will tell you to get the shot and you will, what?
I've talked to my doctor about it and gone over my concerns with her. She understands my feelings about it. I may change my mind as second generation vaccines come around or the risk changes. She is willing to work with me on therapeutics. I am not overweight and have no health issues, though am somewhat older. She understands my choice to do antibodies and other therapeutics. She did not tell me I was nuts if I didn't get this vaccine. She would not be allowed I'm sure to advise I NOT do it and I wouldn't pin her down that way.
No, thank you. I know too much about how the world works -- especially, *today's* world.
Here's just one nugget for you: "[C]onflicts of interest and biases exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine ." -- Marcia Angell MD
Wow. This post blows me away. Not that is surprises me at all. It's hard to make sense of any of this. And while I would never want the responsibility of telling anyone to take or not take a vaccine, this makes it so difficult to navigate decisions for one's one health. One thing I do know and you are confirming is that there is nothing wrong with questioning the status quo. Anybody on here who criticizes people for doing it needs to think again. They need to answer our questions. Thank you for your post.
own health, sorry.
Since you quoted her, here's Dr. Agnell telling you to get vaccinated! Go get your shot! https://www.santafenewmexican.com/opinion/my_view/covid-19-stopping-the-next-variant/article_3d4b07b4-0154-11ec-a204-b3562983e4f2.html
Thank you. I was waiting for your well-paid response.
Do you really think that whatever her *public* opinion is now on this vaccine will erase what she said about the state of the entire industry a decade ago, and change my beliefs about what's going on now?
No. As I said at the beginning, I know too much now, for too long, about the progress of the rot at the top of American leadership to do such a thing. In this place, Angell could easily be compromised, now forced to pay penance for her earlier words, or otherwise, a la Don Corleone, made "an offer she can't refuse". I know of many It certainly bears further scrutiny.
In the article you cite, she makes all of the talking points the other pushers make, including shaming people, telling them they're "selfish", without answering basic questions such as, "If this is a 'deadly virus', why are such a small percentage of the total population, primarily elderly with co-morbidities, actually dying from it? Meanwhile, if one healthy 30-year old has a horrible death, why aren't the rest of them getting serious ill and dying? What's different about that person's body or environment? Why aren't we being told about this??" She's too smart not to be aware of these questions. I'm sure there are many more.
I have seen too many people switch positions, especially over roughly the last five years to not suspect something truly insidious is going on. The evidence is copious if you do your reading. Ex Harvard president Larry Summers famously told Elizabeth Warren a while back that she had to go along with the current political mafia to succeed in politics. So here's another nugget:
"After dinner, 'Larry leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice,' Ms. Warren writes. 'I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don't criticize other insiders.'"
Now it's ratcheted up to *forcing* people to say things:
Bernie Sanders once said "All Lives Matter", and formerly argued that excessive immigration adversely impacted the labor market in certain segments of the economy -- he's now reversed those positions. Not to mention all the now screamingly-obvious sheepdogging he's been up to for the Democratic Party since 2016.
So why should I believe Angell says what she does now without being arm-twisted? She did a "bad, bad thing" with that claim about NEJM ... she's gonna pay for it the rest of her life.
In my opinion, the primary purpose of the totalitarian push for 100% acceptance this vaccine, suppressing not only all other medical opinions but all other research over the last year -- the way science is *supposed* to work to deal with a *novel* pathogen -- is this: To normalize bodily-invasive access for future use. They couldn't get it to happen over the last few years with the seasonal flu vaccine, and so now they're pulling out all the stops. They've normalized public acceptance of universal surveillance. Who's now screaming up and down about that evisceration of the fourth amendment?
It isn't Russian trolls that are destroying public trust. It's our own leaders, who "hate our freedoms".
Hello. I didn't quote her, you idiot. She posted on here herself. If she wants to tell people to get vaccinated on here, I presume she will. And I will tell her what I'm telling you: Get your own shot and stop telling other people what to do.
I was replying to "The Anti-Hip" not you. Still, you should stop being selfish and get your shot too! Amusing that you are bothered by someone on the internet suggesting you do something.
NO! The CDC FDA WHO have all skewed information and admitted it:
CDC Director: ‘I Think You’re Correct’ About Inflated COVID Death Statistics 2021 8.18
https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/cdc-director-i-think-youre-correct-about-inflated-covid-death,
CDC Reveals Hospitals Counted Heart Attacks as COVID-19 Deaths
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4897385/user-clip-cdc-director-acknowledges-inflation-covid-19-death-count
The latest numbers from the CDC reveal hospitals have been counting patients who died from serious preexisting conditions as COVID-19 deaths.
Now they are shifting Vaccinated Deaths to Unvaccinated by "NEW RULE"
“For the purpose of this surveillance, (Same excuse they use to skew CO-morbidity deaths as all COVID)
a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person ≥14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine. “
28 days between shots plus 14 days = 42 days . Anything under 42 days is considered an UN vaccinated death. (Majority of Vaccine Deaths occur 2 weeks after Jab.}
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
If you are REALLY studying COVID deaths they need to be separated from OTHER deaths not mixed in and counted.
And what they've done is expose us to an enormous clinical trial (if they had their way without a control). Long term safety studies have obviously not been done. It's nowhere near how this is done and they don't even know if some of these ADE things are of no concern and read the New York Times. You'll find out even THEY admit the vaccines could cause the virus to mutate into a more lethal form. (Their conclusions after this admission are ludicrous) but there clearly are a plethora of unknowns--they thought it was a sterilizing vaccine and it's leaky. They've been wrong about so much it's not funny. The last thing you should want responsibility for is giving anyone medical advice.
Oh don't be such a wimp. You'll survive this little injection. Get the shot!
Agreed. I personally know plenty of highly educated (myself included) that feel as you do.
I think unfortunately one of the "successes" of the radical left and the radical left media is they have managed to pigeon hole this "divide" as informed and educated vs. fly-over uneducated racists if not actual white supremacists. And conservatives, even Trump supporters (and vaccine skeptics) come from all walks of life. It's amazing how "smart" people without college degrees are as well. But they have managed to pigeon hole critical thinkers as uneducated idiots spreading "misinformation" they must censor and control. I think Matt agrees with some of this, yet I keep getting the feeling he buys some of their conclusions on "science consensus" and who makes up conservatives and/or Trump supporters. People were not Trump supporters because they loved his personality (though he made us laugh, something leftists never do), but because we saw the critical race, authoritarian, Marxist garbage coming like a freight train. And so did Trump. Not that he was right on every issue, but he knew who they were and he knew what they had in mind. Driving business out of the country, energy dependence, fake (mostly) climate hysteria to control young people, open borders, monitoring bank accounts? Death and capital gains taxes that will not affect big business but will devastate small business? There are people of all walks of live opposing these elitist Marxists. And even Matt seems to buy into this stereotype at least some. They are controlling major spheres of influence: universities, Hollywood, most of the media. Matt understands much of this which I why I support him, but at times he seems to buy into their garbage.
Road testing a novel here? Perhaps a smaller work of fiction? A cornucopia of nonsense and misinformation, packaged in a cute little grievance box. I'll limit myself here to your churlish "commie" talk, which to a certain degree I see is back in fashion, at least here on the TK threads amongst some of the more "exotic" political scientists on board.
"....but because we saw the critical race, authoritarian, Marxist garbage coming like a freight train..." "....There are people of all walks of live opposing these elitist Marxists...."
First off, I should think that any self-respecting marxist would be opposed to any commie pinko identifying as an "elitist" marxist---not just the lady at the dry cleaners, or the Orkin bug guy that stopped by yesterday. There are what, maybe a couple hundred marxists in the U.S. currently? And I'm thinking, or at least hoping, that the motherfuckers are more bourgeois than I am? I believe Stalin either shot or worked to death the last "elitist" marxists. So we don't have to worry about that class of snooty bolshevik, what with their beluga and triple-filtered vodka. But apparently some of these red bastards are barrelling down on us freight train-like. And did you hear what happened? They ran off our entire manufacturing base---overseas! I think it happened last week, at least that's what the report said in the police blotter.
And get this. Some of them are even lurking about down at the Elementary school during recess and telling the kids that they'll be no cooling drafts blowing through the particular corner of hell where they're headed if they don't stop with the hamburgers and the 15-minute showers and get on board with with the notion that the earth is on fire and by god they'll be held accountable if they don't put it out!
But what seems like good news it that they have apparently set up shop in most of the universities and Hollywood, which works fine for me, insofar that it means I probably won't cross paths with them any time soon. Let'em deal with the 18-year olds and they're welcome to the entire Marvel catalog. And the media. Don't get me started on the media which is already as marxist as Trotsky's socks and mostly meshuga most of the time anyway.
You just love to hear your head rattle. You aren't trying to communicate with anyone at all. Keep blabbing on.
" .... one of the "successes" of the radical left and the radical left media is they have managed to pigeon hole this "divide" as informed and educated vs. fly-over ...."
Honest lefties don't believe that BS - your attempt at smearing them qualifies, IMO,
as "misinformation"
Where are the "honest" lefties? Not on tv or in most of the mainstream press. Read it. Here on substack. There are likely exceptions with lefties, too, but they are not part of the narrative push or you wouldn't be reading Matt.
My point - it is not "radical lefties" who have pigeon holed this "divide" as informed and educated v fly-over - and as for "radical left media" - who dey? let me know so i can read them ...
Just what position is not a radical left position these days and almost all mainstream/left media is doing the above. Except places like here. What is the argument? Matt is writing about it all the time.
Not everyone is comfortable reasoning independently about science. Matt did review positively Gurri's book, which discusses climategate.
OK, so how long do you want to wait to see - how many "numbers" have to come in? I suspect there will never be enough for you ...
It's way too early to see if the vaccines are really effective enough to justify the obvious long term (and even short term) risks. My brother and his wife were vaccinated -- my brother got very sick. Cut to the chase. Here is how it will work for me. Long term problems won't be apparent for at least five years or more. ADE will happen sooner if it is going to. But right now I am not sold on this vaccine. For now, I'll go with antibody treatment and therapeutics because I'm in good health. If the Marek Effect happens and the vaccines cause the virus to escape and become more lethal and the odds change (because they were idiots), I might have to re-evaluate and of course, I will. My father is 89 and got vaccinated, though since he hardly leaves the house, I wasn't sold on it. He's had increasing heart failure and lingering pneumonia since (obviously we can't tell if it's the vaccine) and it shed on me and gave me shingles (too coincidental for my liking). My husband is a bit higher risk but can't bring himself to do it. Yet. But I am also convinced if they don't push this thing to be more deadly that they will have therapeutics working well for most people soon and that might be better for young people and healthy people. So I will wait and see. But I can promise you I will not get vaccinated because you mandate it and it has not a freaking thing to do with politics which was my initial point. Trump supporters are from all walks of life and so are people against this particular vaccine. That is a narrative the mainstream media is getting away with. It's bologne.
Its funny to me how many books and think pieces have come out trying to solve the mystery of the "Trump voter." I know thats not the only thing this book is getting at but still. I live in an area that went for Trump, I know people of all levels of education and income that voted for him. It seems like all these people want to endlessly ponder about what made someone vote for him but they don't want to have an actual conversation with an actual person who voted for him. Why? Are you afraid you might find out that they're not some inbred hick monster straight out of deliverance? Are you afraid you might find that they're...well, shit, just like you?
Gurri's whole book is on the Trump voter before Trump even ran for the Republican nomination. Lots of people think Trump created his voting base, as opposed to that voting base rejecting all of the credentialed candidates and supporting someone who didn't speak down to them.
Right, that base has always been there. We get a movie about it every 10 years, every decade there's a "politician that finally just tells it like it is" movie and everyone loved it until it finally happened in real life. "Wait, maybe this isn't a good premise afterall..."
Well, the ruling class think they ought to be the ones who get to decide what "telling it like it is" is.
So refreshing. I miss him so very much
Not to worry - he'll be back ....
We were here before Trump, and we will be here after. Trump recognized the opportunity and took it. The idiotic, corrupt Republicans still can’t see it
The interesting part is - from pre-Dem nomination in '16, polls indicated Sanders could have beaten Trump - he didn't speak down to folks either - the stupid Ds picked "basket of deplorables" Clinton ...
Strangely there is overlap with Bernie voters and Trump voters. There is a certain “burn it all down” component in both
Not strange at all and Sanders is not a "burn it all down" guy ....
The elite's realization of hell on earth is when the Deplorables and Bernie Bros start comparing notes...
It's already happening. Right here.
Despite their differences, I think Trump and Sanders are both, at heart, pro-America.
Trump was excellent at coming off as pro-America. And perhaps he was, to an extent, but by now it's clear that he was first and foremost, above absolutely everything else, pro-Trump. That's why people hated him so much. He put himself before the country at every single opportunity. Not how a president is supposed to behave.
Hillary made that happen by cheating.
Guess what-he-or people in his administration and some Senate RS-actually did a good job a president. I voted for Johnson in 16’, but happily voted for Trump in 20. Foreign policy, judges, energy policy, education policy, even criminal justice reform-good stuff was done.
I voted for him and freely admit it. I also voted for Ralph Nader (twice) and will gladly make the case that Donald Trump is actually MORE progressive than either Hillary Clinton of Joe Biden.
Afraid we might have more logical reasons then voting for Hillary or Joe?
I am a college educated citizen and I am horrified at the obnoxious arrogance of the educated class. It really rose to the surface during Covid. Educated people were demanding more and longer lockdowns and were shaming anybody who did not agree. The truth was that they didn’t really want “lockdowns”, they wanted working people like truckers, food workers and delivery services, Amazon and warehouse workers, garbage collectors, nurses, and landscapers to go out to work so that the educated aristocracy could hide at home. Working people kept this country going during the pandemic. I honor all of the blue collar heroes who make up two thirds of the voters in our country. They don’t drive Audis, they don’t belong to country clubs, they choose country music and rock n roll over opera or jazz, but most of them are smart and hard working. Bless them all.
Thank you. My husband is a truck driver. Yes the upper class was beyond arrogant during the lockdown.
Give your husband a hug from me. 👍
I truly wonder if your sentiment will actually be fully exposed. It's those with jobs that can be done from home that demand so much from others. It's really sickening. My spouse worked through it all!
I think it's overly cynical to think that people wanted lockdowns so they could hide. People thought that lockdowns were the best tool we had at the time to reduce the death toll. Naturally they're going to be passionate about that. Over half a million people did die, including my uncle.
I am sorry about your uncle. But living in the SF Bay area, I disagree about people wanting lockdowns so they can hide. Young WFH people were hiding, while sending older, essential workers out to take their risks. No one thought anything about forcing restaurant workers, restaurant food delivery drives and Amazon drivers from delivering frivolous things. I was asked by an at least 70 year old Instacart driver where something was in my grocery store in April 2020. No effort was made to help the older essential workers stay home. It was entirely by class.
I’m so sorry about your uncle- and thank you for your earlier post. I believe you genuinely care about well-being of others and in the context of the ongoing global debate that piece often gets lost.
I’ve had COVID (Jan 2020) before the doctors even knew what it was. 2 separate docs Unsuccessfully treated me for a URI each w a 10d round of Amoxi. I remained symptomatic for additional 3 weeks post treatment and Doc recently dx’d long-COVID and tested positive for T-cell immunity. out of concern for others I maintain social distancing, practice good hygiene and wear a mask when it makes sense! You won’t see me wearing one while driving in my car without a passenger. Stay safe - do what’s right for you and try not to listen to too much of the noise - I do and it sometimes makes me feel worse than COVID!
@Sue
Well DONE, madam, well DONE !
Here's the dirty "secret" of the globalism that's (largely) responsible for putting us in this position: You can't compete with global wages while paying local prices.
Globocorps know this. They tell us that we could compete if we were just willing to work harder, but they're lying, and they know they're lying. No matter how hard Americans work, they can't get around the fact that cost of living in China (or wherever) is a fraction of what it is in America.
This is starting to apply to white collar jobs as well (think tech being outsourced to India). The only ones who can never be outsourced are the ones doing the outsourcing, because they're the ones making the decision to outsource or not. Which is terribly convenient for them.
The rich are forcing the poor and middle class into a no-win position, then blaming them for losing.
Rather than continuously debating the nuances of the failure of governance in this country it is time to put such knowledge into action.
With the start of Reagan and then followed by Clinton, Bush2, etc. conscious policy decisions were made which effectively:
1) Decreased investment in the US as witnessed today by failing infrastructure as one symptom.
2) Decreased investment in true material wealth creating industries as witnessed by transferring millions of factory jobs overseas in the name of "efficiency".
3) Rescinding the regulations on finance for highly leverage and speculative betting on markets. Rather than funding wealth creating industries the game turned towards wealth redistribution schemes. That wealth had to come from somewhere. It came from the citizenry of the United States and the taxpayers of the United States.
Stop this continuous whine about "libtards", "Trumpistas", "real Americans", "Nanny State", and all the other snarky bullshit. It's all an act of misdirection. Keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves so that the Royalists can do what they've always done: plunder the Treasury and steal as much wealth as possible.
The only reason such things as Social Security and Unemployment Insurance were ever enacted was out of fear of revolution following successful revolts by communists in Russia and China. When the USSR imploded, it was "the end of history", and that signalled a return to the good old days for the imperial oligarchs who invented and have always ruled this nation. They'll just keep on hollowing it out and misdirecting our attention. There are so many different groups that can be hated based on race, education, religion, region, etc. We're a forever, weapons manufacturer's and pundit's dream of slaves and peasants believing ourselves "free!"
Ha whatever the reason (never thought I would think this way) I want my money!! I want a nice big check for all of the money I’ve paid into SS because as GenX already knows it will be LONG GONE by the time I retire. Actually it’s already gone but I like the illusion.
I agree with you here. Just not about blind acceptance of vaccination. However, not "snarky" buillshit to call this the nanny state and total government control from cradle to grave. If you want to use other words to describe it, go ahead. I would say it was started under the Bush's though.
Yup. They are demonizing the people they're screwing over by calling them deplorables, white-supremacists, etc. They have no shame.
Excellent take. Same people that want living wages and worker protections here at home are fine with other countries locking workers in factories 12 hours a day 6 days a week with no protections.
Elites in charge. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Justice Coney Barrett was the first non-Ivy League SC justice. Via Notre Dame. The horror.
Snobbery isn't a strong enough term anymore. The pictures of the masked servants straightening the trains of the gowns of the bare-faced Met gala attendees, including the gowns of "self-proclaimed socialists," tells us we have crossed into a whole other place.
So I guess one of the main points of the piece is that in this current age, those of us with degrees look down on and disparage those who don’t have a degree, and think they are unintelligent. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Maybe it’s because I was the first person in my family to obtain a degree, but I don’t see how those with degrees can justify that nonsense. Maybe it’s because my dad was a 20 year Navy guy and my uncle was a 20 year Marine. Maybe it’s because I use “uneducated” plumbers, heating/AC guys, and other such trades people to fix things in my house. They all have way more common sense and innate intelligence than many I know with degrees. They also happen to be very nice, pleasant, real, salt of the earth people.
It's the myth of elite superiority writ large - a narrative that fails because it is completely disconnected from common, everyday life experience.
You nailed it. Well said indeed.
Hmm, maybe the idea that those with degrees look down on those without is another bit of "fake news"? Is it just a small, but vocal, slice of "elites" - the snobs, that do? OK, so where are the "stats" .... :D
@SH
Indeed ! The only humans looking down on *other humans are humans who feel *inadequate about themselves ! I say again, this whole question is MOOT. One cannot accurately divide humanity by means of *any arbitrary "line" - degreed, not degreed, vaxxed - not vaxxed, my religion - not my religion, minority - majority and truly learn *anything that is NOT simply yet another vague generality, often half-true, meant to distract by means of adult name-calling more appropriate to second-graders in a sandbox. "Is too" - "is NOT"; "Can too" - "Can not"
Do people with degrees look down on those without degrees ?
Some do, some do not. NEXT ?
C'mon, Matt, going for the low-hanging fruit with this one ? ;-D
Charles Murray (the Left's Satan) wrote in his book 'Coming Apart' that the upper and upper-middle classes still live "vague ideas that success should be tied to virtues like thrift, discipline, and wisdom" with, for example, lower divorce rates, while publicly proclaiming at the same that these are old-fashioned ideas. He also noted that decades ago the elite use to live among the "poorly educated" in small cities and towns. Now the elite live in the big city high-rises and gated communities totally cut off from the working class world.
I really dislike the terms poorly educated to categorize people as less than. I grew up in a working class environment and worked my way up quite high in the corporate world without a college education. Yes, that was a long time ago and things have changed dramatically. But working class are not stupid and let me tell you their are a lot of people out their with Bachelor and Master degrees that don't have a clue.
Not everyone is suited for college and not because of IQ. People have different interests. I hated school...all of it. I found it stifling and wanted to work outside. Working with a bunch of like minded men outside and sometimes battling the elements were some of the happiest times in my life. And yes, these men I worked with were from all walks of life. Later I hopped on the corporate ladder and, while more lucrative, it was not as fun or satisfying.
We do need more trade schools and schools that teach high-tech fields. You don't need a college degree to do coding.
Finally, Biden is just angry because COVID is not working out as he hoped and is just lashing out. Kind of like his Afghanistan speeches.
Oh, and regarding the vaccines. The jury is still out. Information is changing by the hour.
Apologies for any grammatical errors.
Yes, regarding rarity today of class and/or education mixed communities. It is quite rare. I happen to be lucky to live in (an urban) one currently, it being an accident of history and geography and what I call "stalled semi-gentrification". It is very rewarding to see upper-middle-class, middle-class, and working-class people regularly talking substantively with their neighbors, at least out of sheer proximal necessity.
You are absolutely correct; but meritocracy demands separation of those who are obedient and follow the rules from those with a brain, a spine or an interest in doing otherwise; so the "bad" children must be stigmatized for life, after they finish up their time sitting in the corner. The system wouldn't work if it were to let everybody live together as equals.
I thought meritocracy is supposed to reward merit, which is legitimate achievement. It's not meritocracy's fault that this has been perverted by easy-As, legacy admissions, race-based everything, and ideology-based back scratching.
Its propaganda says it rewards merit, but obedience to and manipulation of the rules are what actually gets rewarded in meritocracy.
Lots of things get corrupted (democracy, justice, science, religion). That doesn't make the ideal a bad thing.
I'm with you. Credentialism is to some extent about conformity.
@norstadt
Amen, Brother ! Good post.
Very nicely stated
excellent post
A person of deep wisdom.
Blue America hates poorly educated white people.
“Just went to a southern Virginia Wal-Mart .... I could SMELL the Trump support.”
-Notorious piece of shit Peter Strzok
Peter Strzok eagerly persecuted ex-CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou, about CIA torture program - five (5) years after his ABC interview -- at orders from St. Obama - to "protect Obama's legacy". Last words that human excrement Strzok told Kiriakou were to "be careful not to bend in prison bathroom..." A high level sadistic psychopath apparatchik now suing government to get his job (and pension) back
And -- a major MYSTERY --- 170++ dead Afghans and 13 US soldiers...
Just HOW a suicide bomber, in densely packed crowd, can kill 183 people?
PS: It turns out that US SOLDIERS ended up killing many by recklessly firing into the crowd of civilians after the bomb went off and they started panicking. Who knows how many they killed this way included in the official toll. Absolutely unconscionable.
There will be a MAJOR effort by corporate media and Pentagon/arms industry to suppress this national shame
Questions With New Reports That US Forces Gunned Down Civilians After Kabul Blast - by Caitlin Johnstone - Caitlin’s Newsletter (substack.com)
https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/questions-after-new-reports-that?
Criminal
Yeah, *that ! ;-D
Likely half the customers were Black and Latino Trump supporters.
"To all those who supported our campaign I am humbled by the faith you have placed in us.
"To all those who did not support us, let me say this: Hear me out as we move forward. Take a measure of me and my heart.
"And if you still disagree, so be it.
"That’s democracy. That’s America. The right to dissent peaceably, within the guardrails of our Republic, is perhaps our nation’s greatest strength.
"Yet hear me clearly: Disagreement must not lead to disunion.
"And I pledge this to you: I will be a President for all Americans."
-Joe Biden, January 2020
"YOU bad Americans are ruining it for US good Americans."
-Joe Biden, September 2021
Joe Biden, also September 2021 — "bla bla bla boxing match bla bla Rober E. Lee bla Florida"
>>They’re all but rooting for each other to die now
Man that last sentence was a real gut punch. There's a subreddit called r/HermanCainAward that's all about laughing at unvaccinated people who die from Covid.
Yes. Have seen that. It’s sick. These people were in most cases simply victims of their own ignorance. Not something to laugh at.
Ignorance? I have known plenty of people that have had Covid 19. None that ended up in a hospital, most experienced mild cold like symptoms. I have also know 3 people that were vaccinated and ended up in the emergency room with heart issues. Ignorance is following the crowd blindly. In a recent poll Democrats were found to believe that some where between 25 to 40% of those that had Covid ended up in the hospital, talk about ignorant!
Was it the Pfizer vaccine?
I am not sure. 2 of them were forced to get the vaccine, even though one of them already had Covid and recovered, both were required for entry into college, young men.
One of my former coworkers had a brother who has became blind shortly after the shot and that has been going on for three weeks now. Another one of his relatives became hospitalized with severe swelling. They both had the Pfizer shot. Another one of my coworkers had a daughter in law who was unable to move her arm for almost two weeks after her shot. I believe she said it was the Pfizer vaccine as well. I do not know of anyone who has suffered severe side effects from the Johnson and Johnson. There is a gargantuan amount money involved in this and I would not be surprised to find out some of the vaccines were a lot safer and more effective than others.
Tragic! I guess we are all guinea pigs for Pharma. All that money assuages the guilt.