376 Comments
User's avatar
Brad's avatar

It's so interesting how when Trump won in 2016, elites insisted that he had subverted the election with Russian help, but when he lost in 2020, the electoral process had apparently been rectified and returned to its sacred form.

Sam's avatar

Evidence is abound that the 2020 elections was neither free nor fair. Joe Biden, didn't "earn" 81 million votes. There are far too many unexplained anomalies to dismiss out of hand that Biden was elected.

Mitch Barrie's avatar

For me the best evidence the 2020 election was fishy is the national media's relentless and strident insistence that it wasn't.

Commentorinchief's avatar

That and how the Republican poll watchers were harassed, bullied, not allowed to observe and even kicked out altogether. They even did it on camera knowing nothing would ever be done about it.

Of course, we all watched as six swing states allegedly stopped voting at night and then miraculously hundreds of thousands of votes for Biden in laughable percentages(90% of military for Biden🤣) were dumped from their warehouses. We live in a banana republic.

Joachim2's avatar

And the wholesale departure from existing election practices ---

Since when are mail-in ballots the most secure (rather than the most fraud-prone) method of voting?

Since when are ballot "drop boxes" scattered around city streets acceptably secure for elections of any type?

Since when is signature verification not required?

Since when are poll watchers excluded (as you mentioned) or corralled 10's to 100+ feet from the action?

In Philly, for example: https://www.inquirer.com/photo/convention-center-plays-host-phillys-ballot-counting-20201103.html

Trollificus's avatar

It's negative data, but yeah, convincing as hell.

flipshod's avatar

Trump won the electoral college in 2016 by getting a relatively tiny number more votes in a few states. The voting populace is essentially tied. In 2020, a pandemic year with the economy limping along, it swung ever so slightly the other way. That doesn't seem strange.

Combined this with the extensive examination of the evidence by multiple courts-the one in Pennsylvania is the best summary, because that's where Trump had the best case, and there's almost 200 pages going through it all. Occam's razor suggests the simpler explanation over the one that requires extensive cooperation and competence)

And Biden didn't "earn" votes. As with 2016, everyone was voting *against* the other side.

Just as Russians didn't turn 2016, fraud didn't turn 2020.

BBell's avatar

Nope: Russians didn't turn 2016 or 2020. But Google, Facebook and Twitter rigged the election for Joe Biden in 2020.

Trollificus's avatar

They have coined the neologism "fortified" for the suppression/slanting/censoring efforts they undertook in 2020.

To me, it just indicates a vile violation of the democratic process, a flex, a flaunting of power. And the mainstream media remains easily bought or intimidated or indoctrinated.

These folks* have all ready science fiction where a favored few own everything and live in absolute luxury while the mass of plebes are poor and desperate. It's a trope, a simple exaggeration of existing conditions, but it looks good to them, visualizing themselves in that top echelon.

*-"these folks" Ah shit, ya caught me. Of COURSE it means "you know, the kind of people I'm talking about". The people in the class of citizens that can generate election-influencing efforts from the social platforms.

koplaw's avatar

PA is the obvious case. Philly didn't swing PA back blue, the Philly suburbs swung PA. For every voter Trump picked up in deep red counties, and flips among working class whites in rust belt counties around Pittsburgh, he lost suburban women and the college educated, many of who historically voted GOP.

Postimpressionist's avatar

And we all know how our colleges are pumping out A+ students, while adjusting merit by lowering the bar.

koplaw's avatar

There are so many unexplained anomalies that none of them can be substantiated despite official audits, court cases, and contracted investigations. Its funny that the people so upset about the media repeatedly allegedly unprovable claims of Russian interference have no qualms about repeatedly alleging unprovable claims of election fraud.

publius_x's avatar

Statistical evidence abounds. The "error" rate of absentee ballots decreased by a factor of 10x from one election to the next. Either Americans got much smarter and/or less lazy (which one look at the local gentry would tell you ain't so) or something fishy was going on.

koplaw's avatar

Oh, sure, statistical evidence? Like four out of five dentists surveyed recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum. What's your source? It's not the election commissions of the various states or counties. Its not something that was ever discovered in any post election recount or audit. It's not something that a single GOP AG or US Attorney could prove or establish. It's kind of like Russian collusion. If you repeat the story enough among people who really want to believe a certain conspiracy, then I guess its true.

John M.'s avatar

Well, then where is it?!

Gail's avatar

Joe Biden is barely breathing. He wears AR contact lenses( the most horrific technology that contains a camera to provide a printed script, a mapping system and provides a virtual reality that enables Biden to appear functional. Ditto Biden’s “ signature” reflective sunglasses that he wears whether or not the normal conditions that sunglasses are designed for.

The guy is literally a bionic robot.Google”AR Contact lenses and images of Biden where his eyes appear large, black and eerily devoid of visible sclera. The wire spotted peeking out from Biden’s jacket during the speech actually activated the lenses. Everybody was focused on his ears, hoping to find wig transmitters. But they never looked at his eyes. The technology has not yet been made available… except to Biden and his Deep State handlers. That is how he was able to miraculously survive the debate. I have lost any faith in our government, fair elections or a decent media that provides honest journalism. We are no better than a third world nation ruled by despots. In fact, we’re worse.

John M.'s avatar

This is satire, right? Please tell me that this is satire.

Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Trump, expecting to lose in '16 was already talking election rigging. It was his built in excuse for losing. Who can really be surprised that he deployed it in '20 when he did lose?

HBI's avatar

Every election has fraud; it's the job of the candidate to win decisively enough to get past the margin of fraud. Anyway, Trump had no fear of being wrong, but it was very egregious in 2020 with all the unconstitutional changes to election practice in states by executive officials rather than the legislatures. All in the name of COVID.

Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Having a great deal of heartburn with the sudden private funding (with strings) of election offices (already funded by taxpayers) - I will note that many Democrats expected a Blue Wave. They didn't even get a ripple. They got Biden and that was it. Now, possibly this was Machiavellian brilliance, to not obviously tip their hand across the board, or that margin of fraud was well less than the margin of victory.

I've had this argument with too many Trump supporters - who will all argue that by conventional standards, Trump should've won the election. The problem with that argument is, Trump was never a conventional politician. Trump incited every bit as much opposition as he did enthusiasm.

michael t nola's avatar

Correct.

Trump won in 2016 because he was the perfect foil for Hillary on both policy and personality. There could never be a more perfect opponent for Trump than Hillary, whose record is unmatched for parroting the received knowledge of the Beltway and whose personality exudes elitism and insincerity, even when she might be sincere.

His loss in 2020 was basically a reflection of his personality in that he is constitutionally incapable of self refection and criticism and lacks the simple maturity to admit he could just possibly be wrong about anything. Had he simply admitted he had taken covid not seriously enough and was now changing course to match his new understanding, he would have won. Donald being Donald, however, is incapable of seeing any issue other than on how it impacts himself.

His strength is his weakness, all of that depending on whether he is the challenger or the incumbent.

He's got a great chance in 2024 if he doesn't Super Size himself to death.

HBI's avatar

Drop boxes, tons of mail-in ballots, both known sources of massive fraud, lots of ballots with only the top line filled out...the general unpopularity of Biden - if he was so popular, why was he almost out of the race in April until some smoke-filled room deal made him the anointed one?

Anyway there was a lot of fraud in 2020. Arguing that point is silly; of course there was.

Frank Lee's avatar

Without the pandemic, Trump would still be President and the Senate would still be in GOP hands.

RJ's avatar

I was on a comment thread a few weeks ago in which a Trumper insisted that Democrats underestimate how many people love Trump. I countered that actually, the right vastly underestimates how many Democrats hate Trump's stinking fucking guts. So they turned out in record numbers to beat his ass, and that's exactly what happened.

RRDRRD's avatar

Not sure what the others meant by "conventional standards" but I am pretty sure if the massive amount of tampering with the election systems of multiple states had been averted and/or the standards, which were largely still in place, for rejecting ballots had been adhered to, yes, Trump would be POTUS.

About 44,000 votes spread through 3 states with notable election irregularities would have thrown the election to the then Republican House. Other states were less narrow but had similar issues with ballot security. I don't think Trump won in a landslide but the case for his winning a narrow electoral college victory is a very logical analysis.

Trollificus's avatar

Fair enough. The Trumpers really need to admit (even if they still want to maintain suspicion of Dem election integrity) that Trump did it to himself. So many ways; simple common sense ways, he could have added 5 or more percentage points to his total and he just couldn't help himself.

Steve's avatar

"it's the job of the candidate to win decisively enough to get past the margin of fraud."

Such a superficial and ignorant view that completely dismisses the differences between 2016 / 2020 and prior elections. Wake up, dude.

HBI's avatar

Tell me how it isn't true, please.

Postimpressionist's avatar

A lot of them didn't realize that their state had gone back to PRE COVID procedures like Checking Signatures of Voters and Witnesses and no more "Biased Ballot BOXES" being picked up by un named people and delivered without a date. The idiots thought COVID Free-For-All would last for ever.

norstadt's avatar

Maybe so, but Trump's efforts to influence Pence's counting of electors was not so different from the ballot counting shenanigans. A different VP would have complied, and where would we be then?

HBI's avatar

You do realize that Trump was trolling the Democrats and they fell for it, hook line and sinker. Now they publish articles in their tame media talking about how difficult they made things for Trump by banning him from all social media, but for all intents and purposes they removed their foil, which is why Biden is sunk around 40% approval and Trump is actually more popular.

Seemed to me like they did him a favor. He can reach his peeps, but they can't.

He was also doing a bit of payback for the Russiagate thing, and that also worked. Really, they're trying to take the cake from the Republicans and become the stupid party, and making a very good case for it. I said from the beginning that they would have been wise to just ignore him and everything he says, but they just can't.

HBI's avatar

There was no way Pence was going to comply with that, nor would any other VP, at least if they wanted a long lifespan. At that point, i'd fully expect someone to come out shooting. You can't gainsay the expressed will of the people without bloodshed. That said, there is some question whether this election result was the expressed will of the people.

Trollificus's avatar

Was that "built in excuse" or was it what he fully expected to happen?

If you listen to Democrat politicians speak, you have your evidence that they have little regard for truth.

Does that indicate in any way their willingness to "bend the rules" to win elections? We've already seen how they got ADMITTED support from legacy media and the tech platforms, worth BILLIONS of dollars of in-kind support, so, they weren't cheating based on what? Their definition of cheating??

"Curmudgeonly" doesn't HAVE to mean dumb or naive.

Brad's avatar

You're right. Just something I thought was worth pointing out.

Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Oh election fraud is a perennial and convenient argument - all depending on who lost. Bush v. Gore ring any bells?

The Dandy Highwayman's avatar

Yes... especially since the whole thing stunk to high heaven of rigging and of deceit. Offshore tallying, surprise absentee votes showing up later and later into the night. At least when Clinton lost it all made sense: her tiny crowds of fans to claiming to keep hot sauce in her fucking purse.

Seems the corpulent machine couldn't get off it's cancerous and seamy belly in time to mobilize against the Orange Man.

They blew him off until it was too late and their usual scummy behavior didn't work. They stepped it up a few notches since 2016. They went "Full Retard". Never go full retard.

CNNisFakeNews's avatar

Someone still has to explain to me how before the elections, Biden was supposed to win all bell weather counties and thus win the election and yet after the election, Trump won 19/20 bell weather counties and still lost?

koplaw's avatar

Again. I can’t explain it to you because your 19/20 stuff is unsourced and gibberish. In PA, a swing state, he crushed Trump in the suburban counties around Philly. That’s where all the people live. The same was true in the metro areas in the various swing states. With AZ and GA, Biden won every swim state he was supposed to win, including the high population counties.

Sam's avatar

Trump in fact won every bellwether county except for 1 in 2020. That’s a clear as day fact. Anyway, the Democrats, including the Democratic-aligned media, spent 4 years investigating bogus Russia collusion allegations that turned out to be Clinton/DNC funded lies. Trump was under attack by political opponents using agencies of the FBI, DOJ to, what, take out the duly elected President. Who in the fuck would accept at face value that the 2020 election was the most secure election in history? Election rules were changed in the middle of a campaign, what fool believes changing rules in the middle of a contest is fair? Nobody who’s honest! The best part: If the 2020 election was totally on the up and up then why are the Democrats so desperate to stop audits and investigations. I don’t trust Democrats, the media, or you.

Principles vs Tribes's avatar

It was the "most secure election EVER", even though downtowns across America had boarded up in advance out of concern that the Left would riot if the votes had gone slightly differently.

koplaw's avatar

What's more interesting is that the same people who believe that an investigation into possible Russian interference undermined Trump's entire term and administration; but repeatedly claiming election fraud with zero provable evidence is completely harmless to the current administration.

Mark Nockleby's avatar

In 2016, Trump won in the normal way that presidents win elections in the US. In 2020, Biden won in the normal way the presidents win elections in the US. That's it, that's all there is. (in the normal way, since 1840!)

Kathleen McCook's avatar

I know he became a saint after he died, but John McCain.....his role in this. Keating Five always loomed to me as indicating there might be a history there.

The Dandy Highwayman's avatar

The Keating Five absolved him of his saintly POW holiness for me. I don't belittle what he went through, or the losses he suffered but it doesn't make him a good person. Shitty people get beaten and tortured as POWs just the same as good ones.

Still... ripping everyone off in an obvious scam like that was enough for me to see how shitty a politician he was.

His cheerleading for war was filthy as well.

HBI's avatar

Agreed. Having done the time in the field, I have to tell everyone that there are great, fine, upstanding Americans in the service. And there are shitbags who steal shit from their fellow soldiers, fuck their wives, etc.

Hero worship must be tempered.

Madjack's avatar

McCain is a corrupt moron. Good riddance.

HBI's avatar

Not a fan. No one liked pointlessly getting US soldiers killed like John McCain.

Mel's avatar

And Tim Dillon’s Meghan McCain riff was PRICELESS. I still laugh out loud when I watch it. Hyena giggles, every time.

Madjack's avatar

I’ll have to google it

Mel's avatar

Don’t miss it. You’ll pee your pants laughing. Promise. I love the way Tim just keeps elevating and elevating his voice, rhetoric, and grossness as he parodies her.

The Dandy Highwayman's avatar

If you had gone cage match, he'd have just shouted you off of his stage and probably wouldn't have aired that segment.

Bill... if you're reading this, old buddy, then understand that when you once spoke to power against the Republican religious agenda and we all cheered, it doesn't mean we're going to cheer as you help even worse people keep their grip on power.

If you're really and truly delusional, I have sympathy for you.

If you're intentionally muddying the waters to perpetuate an obvious ploy at attacking civil process and conducting a terror war on home soil, I have the deepest loathing for you.

Matt, I really liked the analogy you made with those poor Japanese soldiers who held to the very last owing to their fanaticism and brainwashing. This conjured up and image in my mind of someone rowing ashore to some remote Pacific island and finding a babbling and paranoid Bill Maher running around wearing a loincloth and officer's sword, still believing the war is going on even though it's 20 years later.

Maher is earning his future place as "the Scorned", and with gusto.

Boris Petrov's avatar

Maher's ship sailed into DNC-CIA embrace looong ago, like Michael Isikoff's and zillion others -- DNC-CIA budget bags are bottomless and journalists can be purchased inexpensively.

Robert Hunter's avatar

Politician's too, the best investment you can make. A few thousand bringing millions in return and it's all perfectly legal, certified by the supreme court. You know, that giant legal fiction called "rule of law"! Almost everyone believes that scam, like law's were carved in stone by god herself instead of what is actually happening, lobbyists literally write the law's and the obsequious toads in government pass them. How anyone can believe such obvious codswallop boggles my mind.

Boris Petrov's avatar

1 Trump and GOP are truly HORRIBLE.

2 DNC oligarchs (Biden, Pelosi, Schumer) are even WORSE (censorship, they concocted Russia-gate hoax, torture of Julian Assange, Daniel Hale’s persecution for Obama’s drone crimes, $16+B Haiti-corruption under Hillary/Obama – Biden-family corruption pales in comparison)

The ONLY solution – vote THIRD party – now and forever. ALWAYS vote – but VOTE for a Third (or fourth, fifth..) party – at ALL levels, especially at LOCAL levels (vote OUT each and every incumbent).

“If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you will always have evil, and you will always have less.” [Ralph Nader].

Only ACTION: Sustained organized mass civil disobedience - not distractions like DNC-controlled hollering and tweeting....

Robert Hunter's avatar

Spot on! Ralph Nader is an honorable and honest man who literally has saved millions of lives, just in auto's.

sasha's avatar

> If you had gone cage match, he'd have just shouted you off of his stage and probably wouldn't have aired that segment.

As I understand it, the show is live. Going full cage match is the only option. There are ways to shut the shouters up.

Kathy Barkulis's avatar

I thought that you did the best you could in the limited amount of time you had to refute Maher’s allegation. Seriously, the woman from Reason monopolized the whole segment. You couldn’t have explained the entire situation in the limited time you had. It’s funny how the same people who call Trump an idiot, clown, knucklehead, still claim he was able to mastermind an entire Russian spy network. Laughable to the extreme.

druzus's avatar

Just for the record, Taibbi quite directly called Trump a clown, and manages not to make the claim about masterminding a Russian spy network. The man walks and chews gum at the same time, which we need way more of in journalism.

mp's avatar

When politics is your religion and government is your God, anyone questioning the official narrative is branded an apostate. Welcome to the new Inquisition.

Great reporting as usual. Keep on keepin’ on.

Dick WB Tracy's avatar

Bill Mayer didn't just pull a quote out of context, but lied about the source itself?

Surprise, surprise.

Why did you ever bother to go on his show, Matt? He is intellectually dishonest (to put it politely) and actually extremely rude and hostile to those with whom he disagrees. It's like the old joke about not wrestling with a pig - the pig likes it and you only end up all muddy.

HBI's avatar

Matt needs marketing the same as anyone else. Maher is going to track the mainstream so that he can get guests. It's all preordained and the main reason I don't watch TV.

EM's avatar

He was one of the rapid ones castigating anyone who questioned the official BS 911 story. Tells you a lot. Maybe he's just stupid and was behind the door when brains were handed out. However if he is a will partisan shill then he deserves the deepest contempt.

sasha's avatar

Maher is not stupid. Just bought.

Antiwar7's avatar

I'm sure Matt went on for the exposure and audience. How could one not?

sasha's avatar

A valid reason. The performance didn't justify it, unfortunately.

DC Lovell's avatar

Great work Matt. I don't blame you for tamping down the urge to correct Maher. I could see it in your eyes when he blathered out the nonsense. He is tip toeing around right now. Some of his recent monologues have been pretty good (refuting the wacko progressives), but he knows who butters his bread. As for the import of the article, well it appears we have fiction writers employed to "make" things up to support the storyline of the persons not interested in a functioning democracy. It was all dogshit!

sasha's avatar

> I don't blame you for tamping down the urge to correct Maher

Then what's the fucking point? Weak sauce.

DC Lovell's avatar

Well the point is he came back with this very detailed response. You think he is going to get into a long format discussion on the Bill Maher show? 90% of the audience are full on tribal.

sasha's avatar

There are ways to challenge Maher and his position, which would expose what frauds both are. Matt is smart and experienced enough to know how to do it. 'Fumbling' is not the way to kill a lie.

DC Lovell's avatar

There is a good chance Maher read this article. If you push these things live in front of Maher's audience ( his income ) he will recoil and dismiss it. Even though it is hard to believe, Maher is human.

Sue's avatar

Thanks for doing actual direct interviewing and reporting, Matt. Most journalists are just parroting whatever rolls off of the AP. The painful part is that the FBI and Congress do the same. Truth is hard to find these days. Thanks for a glimpse of it.

minitiger's avatar

Actually, most “journalists” are just parroting whatever the CIA, FBI and “sources close to the investigation” tell them. Would that they would simply parrot the AP; we might get a half-way honest story then.

Joe's avatar

Matt, Thank you. Thank you for not accepting the horseshit that was stuffed down our throat for 5 years. When are all those assholes in the media going to surrender their pulitzers anyway?

Peacelady's avatar

Maher is just another overpaid establishment shill. There was no way he was going to allow you to destroy the Russiagate narrative. Evidence has no effect on true believers no matter the religion anyway. Yes, Bill, Russiagate is no different than any other religion. It requires blind faith in something never proven to exist.

Bill Astore's avatar

Wow! Super-sensitive polling data. Hillary 45% versus Trump 40% (or vice-versa) in certain states. If that isn't collusion, if that isn't a threat to the republic, I don't know what is. Those Russkies! How will they threaten us next? :-)

Let's face it: Ike was right. Only Americans will defeat America. And there's plenty among us doing their best to live up to Ike's sentiment. And I'm not talking about January 6th.

Mitch Barrie's avatar

"Those Russkies! How will they threaten us next?"

Buy even more weird on-line advertising?

Reminder, anyone who says the Russians swung the election with a $40K ad spend on Facebook . . . has a pretty piss-poor opinion of the American electorate.

Mike Stearns's avatar

Maher has a specific narrative he needs to stick to, and anything you could've said to the contrary would've been dismissed.

The Dandy Highwayman's avatar

Maher is a modern day judenrat, or Kahal.

He may even believe he's doing the "right thing", but it doesn't excuse his actions. Just as with the original judenrat, the coming annihilation will be the State's design -not his.

His crime is really just helping them perpetuate a giant lie. He's a turncoat.

Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

People aren't going to abandon their faith, and it is exactly faith that explains all of this.

Trump is to many people (and everyone still clinging bitterly to "collusion") what Satan is to a Baptist.

OldMillennialGuy's avatar

Similar to another comparison I've heard; Trump is the piss-Christ of the left. Although I doubt anyone under 35 even knows what the piss-Christ reference is.

memento mori's avatar

You'd be surprised. Patti Smith has a large following of young people. They know her history.

rtj's avatar

Are you thinking Mapplethorpe? Piss-Christ was Serrano.

Lekimball's avatar

Great job, though I'm disappointed you didn't go "cage match!" with Maher. Fascinating story here! Did you send him this fine reporting nobody ever bothered to do?? I hope so. I think this was a deliberate coup attempt and they knew it was all lies. Hillary Clinton is a criminal and I'm sure Biden and Obama knew all this, too. But certainly Clinton did. They tore this country apart for five years -- Donald Trump didn't do that -- they did. And are. Not to mention censoring things and their idiot fascist agenda.

Madjack's avatar

Disappointed Maher still wrong about this. Obama was involved. They all were.

Kathleen McCook's avatar

MSM might read _The Mission Song_ (John le Carré, 2006).

John's avatar

I just want to say Thanks Matt. While we don’t always see eye to eye on opinions, you make my Top 5 people I’d like to have a beer with because you are one of the few people out there that can present the facts and your opinion without merging the two an let the readers form their own opinions. I’d love to see you on the Tim Pool show some day, younger generation learning to do news, people like these need mentors like you.