UPDATE: Old friend Glenn Greenwald is going to be joining me for the first hour. Should be a great discussion. Come by at 3:00 PM EST.
After running a pair of items this week on the same theme — an interview with Paul Thacker, the British Medical Journal author whose article was deemed true but “missing context” by Facebook, and Matt Orfalea’s mashup of the “lab leak” conspiracy theory madness from our recent past — I thought today might be a good day for a Callin discussion on the ongoing efforts at narrative-policing in the media sphere. This goes on as the White House and the Surgeon General have begun pressuring Spotify to “do more” about misinformation (they seldom name the actual misinformation), and the campaign to clamp down on alternative media in general has grown more intense. I know I’ve hit this theme before, but today I want to dig into some of the background leading up to this moment.
If you can make it, click here to join in at 3:00 p.m. I’m going to add a standard apology about the Apple-only aspect of these discussions for as long as that continues to be true - I really am sorry about this.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I have always been bothered by the vagueness of "COVID cases" in the news. Being a molecular biologists, I understand very well what PCR is good for. Is there even a study that investigated the ratio of PCR positive cases and actually sick people?
I'd love to make it but in case I don't or can't get a comment in, I've had Neil Young's "Old Man" going through my head a lot these past few days. "Old man, take a look in my eyes, I'm a lot like you...I need Joe Rogan's podcast to see me through..."
Anyway, these old hippies (Joni Mitchell included) were so on top of demanding rights and bucking the system it's hard to believe the irony of becoming the voice of the government/MSM is lost on them. Personally, i'm frantically checking myself for any developing psychological fissure that might cause me to become as unmoored from primary principals as they seemingly have.
Are we all destined to become the enemy we fought? I suppose an argument could be made that they see the inverse situation and maybe that's where we need to begin? But the thing I don't get is how you can listen to 10 minutes of JR and not go, "Oh, yeah, he's fine. Maybe not a genius, but clearly a decent person trying to do right." The only arguments I ever hear that have any basis in reality are, "he has a responsibility to do X because of his platform," which is difficult to see as anything other than policing.
Last thing I'll say about Neil Young is that he's been shaming people into compliance since the beginning as demonstrated in the song, "Southern Man." It's easy to listen to that song in the context of the 1960's and see what's right about it ("Rednecks" by Randy Newman is another example), but in the modern context it looks like punching down. Music is interesting in this regard because it's always intended for a listener, but these things don't hold up well when the listener changes. Maybe scolding isn't the best way to make timeless art.
The White House and all the various Govt health agency spokespeople only need to look in the mirror to see why their credibility continues to nosedive … they want Spotify to shutdown “misinformation “ while LA DA Garcetti says “he doesn’t breathe when he takes his mask off” for a photo…. Did Bill Clinton text him that explanation? Do “they” not understand that this daily assault on our intelligence and their rules “we” must adhere to but not them only reinforces our skepticism that it’s their information that is bogus.
"I’m going to add a standard apology about the Apple-only aspect of these discussions for as long as that continues to be true - I really am sorry about this. "
You could always threaten to remove your content from the platform until they stop playing the corporate favoritism game 😄
I Love how Ole' Zuck blames Tick Tock for the drop in daily users costing him billions in theoretical wealth. In a simple anecdotal story I call my own , one user stopped using FB (5 years ago) for the very reasons you listed in your message here. I think the information crackdown is reaching critical mass and people are voting with their thumbs and spending their attention elsewhere thus costing FB billions in magical value. Also the metaverse is the ultimate in cringe and I think scares the hell out of regular people.
Dr. Peter McCullough cited almost everything he said why does no one discuss that? Also, no one is talking about what’s happening in Israel! I’ve seen multiple news sources say this same thing! They have more cases in the month of January than in the entire year in 2021! https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674
What has happened to Matt? All the generalities about 'woke', 'press freedom,' etc. have lost all meaning in the artificial constructs he now references. I was such a fan when he was nailing the banks and other big corps. But, now, finding 'cracks' and 'inconsistencies' or whatever in the "mainstream LIBERAL narrative"? Please....Matt...the country is going into the shitter and you are doing this nonsense?
Matt, I just listened to your comments on the Callin about what is/isn't "misinformation" on Joe Rogan's show. Did you actually listen to the Robert Malone interview? If so, you might have heard him assert that the pandemic was literally pre-planned for profit and control. You might have also heard Joe rephrase that assertion as sort of a fake question, intended to amplify the statement, not to challenge it. This is Alex Jones territory and it crosses a line. I'm not calling for censorship, but come on, to ignore this (and it's by no means an isolated example) you're just avoiding a difficult issue.
"There are three great truths; your truth, my truth and the truth." - Proverb... The fact we're no longer free to discuss any version of it, means we'll end up an ill-informed populace, if we aren't already!?
Facts that seem to be missing from discussions by Matt, Rogan, etc:
1. Over 690,000 COVID-19 US hospitalizations could have been prevented by vaccination between June to November 2021 (84% of hospitalizations were unvaxxed)
2. The cost of this to US healthcare system: $38 Billion
3. Other costs: Exhausted doctors and nurses, fewer beds for people with other medical emergencies
So when Rogan pushes an anti-vax agenda with his 11 Million followers, and people don't get vaxxed as a result, there are actual, real costs to society. Who should be responsible for paying those costs? I'm not suggesting Rogan should pay everything, but he does have some responsibility, doesn't he? The same day he posted his video about Neil Young, he tweeted a bogus Ivermectin "study" and when people pointed it out, he deleted the tweet, but not before almost 100K followers liked it. Did Rogan issue a correction? -- I haven't seen it. Is this responsible use of his platform with 11M followers? Do no journalistic standards apply to him?
Would Neil Young like to stop human gossiping? Would Joni Mitchell ban the telephone game? Both are sources of dangerous misinformation. Most human communication, by far, is imperfect. It includes bits of wrong information scattered amongst some bits of partially true information most of the time. The idea of censoring podcasts makes about as much sense as censoring lyrics.
I've been reading a lot about States having to call in the National Guard to help out at hospitals because they are seeing a huge spike in the "unvaccinated" becoming ill and they are short-staffed. What I would really like to hear is how many staff were fired at these hospitals because they refused the vaccine. And how many refused the vaccine because they already had natural immunity. The silence is deafening.
When Greenwald and Taibi say that they have become more pessimistic in the last 5 years is because they are looking at a few trees, with their own inherent bias, and not the whole forest. The fact that masses of people in the US rebelled against T-RUMP and his racism and bigotry, and went out to vote Don the CON out of office is a reason to be OPTIMISTIC! What this shows is their lack of sensitivity to the needs of millions of voters of color who see the danger of right-wing bigotry and neo-fascism to their interests.
As per usual, in order to fully understand the past, whether it be the "pandemic" or any other pointvin human history, you need only do one thing; follow the money.
Could you elaborate on the huge "thousand-dollar-an-hour lawyers on speed dial" lawsuit risks Thacker faced as a congressional report writer?
Gosh, that would really shape your ability to "land these". The most notable such lawsuit against a committee staffer, glittering like the sword of Damocles over his head was...which case?
If you are referring to Lyndon Johnson, among others...agree....but that does not mean ALL liberals or even a small minority are "warmongers." As to expressing affection for the secret police, I have no idea whom or what you are talking about. And outside of this entire 'woke' bullshit (as in 'false' or meaningless narrative), liberals have never, had big numbers for suppressing free speech. You are throwing around a lot of clichés here. To repeat, these are minor issues so why is Taibbi screwing around with them at all as Wall Street marches us into fiefdoms and the entire Republican Party is marching us into fascism. 'Woke'? 'Non-Woke" Who cares?
Matt - Do you know Matt Lee with the AP? This dude seems to be one of the only real journalists out there, and seems to have been doing a great job calling out the state department for years - including Jenn Psaki on her misinformation. You should talk to him.
Three Card Monte. In the 1870s and 1880s my greatgrandfather dealt tables at Kansas and Nebraska Railhead towns to releive the cowboys of their pay. He kept a journal. Great stories.
Fly Speck Billie, he got shot. Not that different than today. Same game.
Joe Rogan has 11M followers and he is a $100M paid employee of a $30B company. In short, he is a media super-power. And pretending otherwise, as Matt and Glenn and most of the folks on this thread do, is simply disingenuous. Does that mean he should be censored (assuming he could be -- if Spotify kicked him off, it would likely grow his following)? No. But stop pretending he's just a "comedy bro" having "agenda free" conversations with people. He has a powerful ability to shape narratives in this country with his selection of guests (his sole discretion) and what he does and does not challenge in his guests' comments (note the huge media bump guests get when they are allowed on the show). Am I saying that individuals have no choice in their decisions about getting vaxxed and are simply manipulated by Rogan? Of course not. But we humans make our meaning socially and dominant narratives have important influence. When millions of people choose not to get vaxxed and end up in the hospital (delta surge hospitalizations were 84% unvaxxed), billions of dollars in costs are incurred on society, and many people die. And so, sure, question CNN and MSNBC's roles in shaping covid narratives, but also question Joe Rogan's role and stop acting like he's some sort of underdog.
N.Hill wrote long ago; thought is the master of all other forms of energy, because it is a form of energy which is mixed with intelligence. Thought holds the solution to every human problem. It is the master of poverty and misery and worry and fear. Anything which exists as FACT is capable of proof. State is a place. Protect your house and remember WWG1WGA.👍✌🇺🇸
No need to apologize for the platform problem. Sign of the times and goes without saying why reputable sources of info are forced to live on 'fringe' platforms.
I'm hoping to call in today. Not sure this crowd (i.e. commenters on Matt's Substack) will appreciate this reference/link, but I've been getting a lot out the "Decoding the Gurus" podcast. Aside from the usual IDW suspects they cover, they've done very good episodes on Rogan (pre-Malone/McCullough) as well as the Malone/McCullough episodes specifically. They also just put out a short(er) one on Rogan's Insta "apology," but I believe it's only available for Patreon supporters. For my money, this pair of podcasters (Chris, an Irish anthropologist who lives in Japan and Matt, an Australian pysch professor) not only do a very good job "decoding" the rhetoric of their subjects, but Chris is pretty damn funny.
Please elaborate on the injunction risk that caused BMJ to decide it did not need to contact or get comment from those it accused of mis-, mal- and non-feasance.
Recent injunctions in the UK have been filed to protect privacy and national security.
Does your narrative articulate a new threat of prior restraint?
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I have always been bothered by the vagueness of "COVID cases" in the news. Being a molecular biologists, I understand very well what PCR is good for. Is there even a study that investigated the ratio of PCR positive cases and actually sick people?
I'd love to make it but in case I don't or can't get a comment in, I've had Neil Young's "Old Man" going through my head a lot these past few days. "Old man, take a look in my eyes, I'm a lot like you...I need Joe Rogan's podcast to see me through..."
Anyway, these old hippies (Joni Mitchell included) were so on top of demanding rights and bucking the system it's hard to believe the irony of becoming the voice of the government/MSM is lost on them. Personally, i'm frantically checking myself for any developing psychological fissure that might cause me to become as unmoored from primary principals as they seemingly have.
Are we all destined to become the enemy we fought? I suppose an argument could be made that they see the inverse situation and maybe that's where we need to begin? But the thing I don't get is how you can listen to 10 minutes of JR and not go, "Oh, yeah, he's fine. Maybe not a genius, but clearly a decent person trying to do right." The only arguments I ever hear that have any basis in reality are, "he has a responsibility to do X because of his platform," which is difficult to see as anything other than policing.
Last thing I'll say about Neil Young is that he's been shaming people into compliance since the beginning as demonstrated in the song, "Southern Man." It's easy to listen to that song in the context of the 1960's and see what's right about it ("Rednecks" by Randy Newman is another example), but in the modern context it looks like punching down. Music is interesting in this regard because it's always intended for a listener, but these things don't hold up well when the listener changes. Maybe scolding isn't the best way to make timeless art.
The White House and all the various Govt health agency spokespeople only need to look in the mirror to see why their credibility continues to nosedive … they want Spotify to shutdown “misinformation “ while LA DA Garcetti says “he doesn’t breathe when he takes his mask off” for a photo…. Did Bill Clinton text him that explanation? Do “they” not understand that this daily assault on our intelligence and their rules “we” must adhere to but not them only reinforces our skepticism that it’s their information that is bogus.
"I’m going to add a standard apology about the Apple-only aspect of these discussions for as long as that continues to be true - I really am sorry about this. "
You could always threaten to remove your content from the platform until they stop playing the corporate favoritism game 😄
Thanks Matt , Miss you on UI. Just not the same.
I Love how Ole' Zuck blames Tick Tock for the drop in daily users costing him billions in theoretical wealth. In a simple anecdotal story I call my own , one user stopped using FB (5 years ago) for the very reasons you listed in your message here. I think the information crackdown is reaching critical mass and people are voting with their thumbs and spending their attention elsewhere thus costing FB billions in magical value. Also the metaverse is the ultimate in cringe and I think scares the hell out of regular people.
Dr. Peter McCullough cited almost everything he said why does no one discuss that? Also, no one is talking about what’s happening in Israel! I’ve seen multiple news sources say this same thing! They have more cases in the month of January than in the entire year in 2021! https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674
Man, Matt....we all pay you money to keep searching for the truth...stop being lazy and get to RUMBLE....the very people you warn us about is AAPL.
Put our/your money where your mouth is
What has happened to Matt? All the generalities about 'woke', 'press freedom,' etc. have lost all meaning in the artificial constructs he now references. I was such a fan when he was nailing the banks and other big corps. But, now, finding 'cracks' and 'inconsistencies' or whatever in the "mainstream LIBERAL narrative"? Please....Matt...the country is going into the shitter and you are doing this nonsense?
Controlling the narrative through any and all means necessary ....was always part of the plan as discussed during the coronavirus pandemic exercises held in October of 2019- https://beyondspin.wordpress.com/2022/01/27/pandemic-exercises/
Please make reference to a specific time zone when you announce an event or presentation. Not all of us live on the east coast!
Matt -- I love you as only an ex-newsman can, but for the love of Strunk & White could you please hyphenate Call-In? :+)
Matt, I just listened to your comments on the Callin about what is/isn't "misinformation" on Joe Rogan's show. Did you actually listen to the Robert Malone interview? If so, you might have heard him assert that the pandemic was literally pre-planned for profit and control. You might have also heard Joe rephrase that assertion as sort of a fake question, intended to amplify the statement, not to challenge it. This is Alex Jones territory and it crosses a line. I'm not calling for censorship, but come on, to ignore this (and it's by no means an isolated example) you're just avoiding a difficult issue.
"There are three great truths; your truth, my truth and the truth." - Proverb... The fact we're no longer free to discuss any version of it, means we'll end up an ill-informed populace, if we aren't already!?
Facts that seem to be missing from discussions by Matt, Rogan, etc:
1. Over 690,000 COVID-19 US hospitalizations could have been prevented by vaccination between June to November 2021 (84% of hospitalizations were unvaxxed)
2. The cost of this to US healthcare system: $38 Billion
3. Other costs: Exhausted doctors and nurses, fewer beds for people with other medical emergencies
So when Rogan pushes an anti-vax agenda with his 11 Million followers, and people don't get vaxxed as a result, there are actual, real costs to society. Who should be responsible for paying those costs? I'm not suggesting Rogan should pay everything, but he does have some responsibility, doesn't he? The same day he posted his video about Neil Young, he tweeted a bogus Ivermectin "study" and when people pointed it out, he deleted the tweet, but not before almost 100K followers liked it. Did Rogan issue a correction? -- I haven't seen it. Is this responsible use of his platform with 11M followers? Do no journalistic standards apply to him?
Would Neil Young like to stop human gossiping? Would Joni Mitchell ban the telephone game? Both are sources of dangerous misinformation. Most human communication, by far, is imperfect. It includes bits of wrong information scattered amongst some bits of partially true information most of the time. The idea of censoring podcasts makes about as much sense as censoring lyrics.
The institutional and cultural forces that lead to the execution of Socrates for challenging their narratives and corrupting the youth remain in play.
There's better reasons for ditching FB, Spotify, and all the rest than just this stuff. This stuff is symptomatic; it's not the disease.
EST, CST, or PST?
I've been reading a lot about States having to call in the National Guard to help out at hospitals because they are seeing a huge spike in the "unvaccinated" becoming ill and they are short-staffed. What I would really like to hear is how many staff were fired at these hospitals because they refused the vaccine. And how many refused the vaccine because they already had natural immunity. The silence is deafening.
When Greenwald and Taibi say that they have become more pessimistic in the last 5 years is because they are looking at a few trees, with their own inherent bias, and not the whole forest. The fact that masses of people in the US rebelled against T-RUMP and his racism and bigotry, and went out to vote Don the CON out of office is a reason to be OPTIMISTIC! What this shows is their lack of sensitivity to the needs of millions of voters of color who see the danger of right-wing bigotry and neo-fascism to their interests.
As per usual, in order to fully understand the past, whether it be the "pandemic" or any other pointvin human history, you need only do one thing; follow the money.
Could you elaborate on the huge "thousand-dollar-an-hour lawyers on speed dial" lawsuit risks Thacker faced as a congressional report writer?
Gosh, that would really shape your ability to "land these". The most notable such lawsuit against a committee staffer, glittering like the sword of Damocles over his head was...which case?
If you are referring to Lyndon Johnson, among others...agree....but that does not mean ALL liberals or even a small minority are "warmongers." As to expressing affection for the secret police, I have no idea whom or what you are talking about. And outside of this entire 'woke' bullshit (as in 'false' or meaningless narrative), liberals have never, had big numbers for suppressing free speech. You are throwing around a lot of clichés here. To repeat, these are minor issues so why is Taibbi screwing around with them at all as Wall Street marches us into fiefdoms and the entire Republican Party is marching us into fascism. 'Woke'? 'Non-Woke" Who cares?
Matt - Do you know Matt Lee with the AP? This dude seems to be one of the only real journalists out there, and seems to have been doing a great job calling out the state department for years - including Jenn Psaki on her misinformation. You should talk to him.
Three Card Monte. In the 1870s and 1880s my greatgrandfather dealt tables at Kansas and Nebraska Railhead towns to releive the cowboys of their pay. He kept a journal. Great stories.
Fly Speck Billie, he got shot. Not that different than today. Same game.
Joe Rogan has 11M followers and he is a $100M paid employee of a $30B company. In short, he is a media super-power. And pretending otherwise, as Matt and Glenn and most of the folks on this thread do, is simply disingenuous. Does that mean he should be censored (assuming he could be -- if Spotify kicked him off, it would likely grow his following)? No. But stop pretending he's just a "comedy bro" having "agenda free" conversations with people. He has a powerful ability to shape narratives in this country with his selection of guests (his sole discretion) and what he does and does not challenge in his guests' comments (note the huge media bump guests get when they are allowed on the show). Am I saying that individuals have no choice in their decisions about getting vaxxed and are simply manipulated by Rogan? Of course not. But we humans make our meaning socially and dominant narratives have important influence. When millions of people choose not to get vaxxed and end up in the hospital (delta surge hospitalizations were 84% unvaxxed), billions of dollars in costs are incurred on society, and many people die. And so, sure, question CNN and MSNBC's roles in shaping covid narratives, but also question Joe Rogan's role and stop acting like he's some sort of underdog.
Related to fact-checking and context: https://societylibrary.medium.com/improving-fact-checking-by-improving-context-checking-93af262baac1
Can't wait for this one!
https://nakedemperor.substack.com/
N.Hill wrote long ago; thought is the master of all other forms of energy, because it is a form of energy which is mixed with intelligence. Thought holds the solution to every human problem. It is the master of poverty and misery and worry and fear. Anything which exists as FACT is capable of proof. State is a place. Protect your house and remember WWG1WGA.👍✌🇺🇸
No need to apologize for the platform problem. Sign of the times and goes without saying why reputable sources of info are forced to live on 'fringe' platforms.
The Rickjust now
I'm hoping to call in today. Not sure this crowd (i.e. commenters on Matt's Substack) will appreciate this reference/link, but I've been getting a lot out the "Decoding the Gurus" podcast. Aside from the usual IDW suspects they cover, they've done very good episodes on Rogan (pre-Malone/McCullough) as well as the Malone/McCullough episodes specifically. They also just put out a short(er) one on Rogan's Insta "apology," but I believe it's only available for Patreon supporters. For my money, this pair of podcasters (Chris, an Irish anthropologist who lives in Japan and Matt, an Australian pysch professor) not only do a very good job "decoding" the rhetoric of their subjects, but Chris is pretty damn funny.
https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/more-covid-cases-confirmed-in-israel-in-january-than-all-of-2021-data-shows/amp/
Please elaborate on the injunction risk that caused BMJ to decide it did not need to contact or get comment from those it accused of mis-, mal- and non-feasance.
Recent injunctions in the UK have been filed to protect privacy and national security.
Does your narrative articulate a new threat of prior restraint?
Based on what case of prior restraint, exactly?