That's a good point, of course. Do you not think it never occurred to me that I could be wrong?? I am paralyzed by that issue. Come on....please. My point is that Matt - my man - used to zero in on banks, income distribution, class stratification, media bias, i.e. issues of consequence. NOW, however, as with his pal, Jimmy Dore, he …
That's a good point, of course. Do you not think it never occurred to me that I could be wrong?? I am paralyzed by that issue. Come on....please. My point is that Matt - my man - used to zero in on banks, income distribution, class stratification, media bias, i.e. issues of consequence. NOW, however, as with his pal, Jimmy Dore, he wants to go into relatively trivial (in my opinion) issues such as the Joe Rogen/Neil Young/anti-Fauci/ nonsense. Please, please, please. And while they are at slapping themselves so hard on the back about how insightful and unbiased they are to actually criticize the "liberal media" as if, see everyone?....I'm not woke too! The fact that the Taibbi is even taking on this pseudo 'woke' issue, which is a relatively benign one in the scheme of things, is not only boring my tits off, but depressing. Please, Matt, take a look at the war machine, income distribution, climate change....for fuck's sake. Who cares whether Joe Rogan is right, wrong, 'woke', 'unwoke,' whatever about vaccinations.
The suppression of Joe Rogan is possibly an interesting issue, not because of its practical or ideological content, but because it is evidence of a breakdown of the ability of the ruling class to protect and compel their narratives and propaganda. That is, what the people getting after Rogan are responding to, which must be their own weakness (or they would not be concerned). This might be a thread worth pursuing. It's like "follow the money" only in this case it's "follow the power."
YES, OF COURSE. But you are all missing the point. There is not a substantive issue about Joe Rogan. BOTH the "conservative" and "liberal" (if you prefer any of those classifications) are irrelevant. They are only semantics that serve....and here it comes....to stall and deflect while the real issues of social and societal changes can really and truly change. While all of you are dicking around about Neil, Joe, anti-vaxxers, Anthony Fauci, etc. etc. , the rich are getting richer and the fucking Republicans are screwing everyone. In short, the MSM and the Republicans are probably all laughing their way to the bank while Matt Taibbi and, apparently, all of you are fixated on "woke." Follow the money, folks. As big an asshole that Trump and his Republican whores are (and will always be), they are making hay (as they say in the Midwest) while we dumbass "liberals" are writing about 'woke." Believe me, to the eternal regrets of us and our children, we and Matt have been taken to the cleaners by the "conservatives" and the "Republicans" (the distinction being totally meaningless, by the way). In short, forget about Joe Rogan; he is an unsuspecting idiot being used by the ruling class for THEIR purposes. The content (if one can EVER subscribe "content" to Joe Rogan) is a side show.
Well, it's interesting. We have people who call themselves 'liberals' trying to gin up a war with Russia -- although I guess I have to concede that liberals have certainly supplied their share of warmongers in past epochs -- and professing affection for the secret police, and now here we have them trying to suppress speech on the grounds that it is contrary to authority. I think that's a significant evolution. I think it's worth discussing.
You're exactly right, in my view. This woke BS, and the culture war generally are explicitly a distraction to get the working class to fight with each other as opposed to realizing who the real enemy is.
Is there a chance you are underestimating the significance of a coordinated effort to control the narrative? How easy it is to dismiss people as “far right” conspiracy theorist? It’s like a magic spell, and it gets push so relentlessly and with such practice that it’s pretty terrifying. Look at how easy it is to get one guy to show up at some corner of a protest with a nazi flag and watch how every media story has the same narrative and the same single image.
Jesus.....of course I am not underestimating controlling the narrative. My single point has nothing to do with 'conspiracy' or 'far right' or whatever...or even 'far left.' So, yeah, a single asshole waving a flag on the corner can say pretty much anything....and get MEDIA attention. That has NOTHING to do with anything, however, other than how corrupt our own media has become to even allow you to say something so depressing. Forget all this, get the babies and young kids some good education and hope that our generation dies off as fast as possible before it is too late, which it probably already is. Why is everyone so fixated on Joe Rogan?....he is a nobody ALREADY and will be even less so as things descend into the shitter....precisely what the 'ruling class' wants. This is not that difficult, folks. Matt Taibbi was on this years ago...but now look what has happened. He has gone to the other side. Keep talking about "woke" and "Joe FUCKING Rogan".....that is what the ruling class hopes we do, anyway. Right?....Matt?
What percentage of the population do you believe thinks the main stream media is propaganda? Like if you were to graph it over time would it look exponential? The Joe Rogan stuff is a red pill experience mill. It exposes the media to the people who are not as far down the rabbit hole as you are. Also Joe Rogan gets clicks bro.😂
Did I use the word 'propaganda?' No. 'Propaganda' assumes the editors, writers, broadcasters, etc. etc. or whoever you define are some monolithic block. You also use words like 'rabbit hole', 'red pill', etc. as if everyone watches some dumbass trendy Hollywood 'movie' has coalesced around some "significant' meaning. Use words, not manufactured Hollywood-manufactured phrases, "bro." Yeah, Joe Rogan gets clicks...but so does everyone else in the universe with a computer. Whatever are you talking about???? And, I am reasonably sure I am not your 'bro.'
I thought the emoji would indicate that the bro statement was a joke, I guess there is a different syntax for that? I am sorry about that. I do not know you, and I do not know what you know, which leaves so much room for misinterpretations. What I meant by Joe Rogan gets clicks is that when anyone talks about Joe Rogan they get more views on their content, I guess it was a cynically flippant dig at all of marketing. But I do think that it’s important for journalists to talk about how the media splits events/topics into diametrically opposed beliefs and then relentlessly bombards people with those two narratives. Joe Rogan is important because his audience is too diverse. There is too much of a mix of right wing and left wing people and too many followers. It’s not important because it relates to ‘wokeness’ it’s important because you can use joe Rogan to show both the right and the left that the division is manufactured. Joe rogan is a short circuit in the system.
Thank you for your response; I didn't mean to be rude. And don't laugh but I (famously) don't use emoji's and avoid them whenever I can so I don't get them. I even ask people whenever they write me NOT to use them; I tell them to use their words. Anyway, that should give you an idea of what an asshole I am. Anyway, I agree Rogan gets a mix of people and ideologies and I agree there is a modest - and minor - divergent set of opinions. But, the emphasis is on minor. Sure, you get actors, the the Jordon Peterson types and offbeat academics etc.....but is that really a "divergence" and in what respect does that really represent a 'diversity.' Rogan is an entertainer...fine and has opinions....again, fine. But, has he ever said anything really interesting? No, think about it; he hasn't. He isn't that bright. And I am not being arrogant here....I am not very bright either which you much have realized by now. My point is that here is that modest, marginally 'talented' individual who has opinions and invites celebrities on who also have opinions. Big deal. Go down to the grocery store and talk to the clerks at the meat counter. They are marginally talented too and also have opinions. Fine. BUT, as with Joe (and me) how interesting are they? Really....frankly, not much. So, you can add all of these up to a bunch of 'clicks' and you STILL don't have much: intelligence, insight, diversity, etc. All you got are 'clicks.' And the more marginal people identify with the modest range of marginal opinions from marginal athletes, whatever the more.....well....'clicks' you get. So what? Where is true knowledge or interestingness with any of that? 'Right,' 'Left', 'extreme' have all lost meaning. So a click on one is really not that different than a click on the other. While all of poor slobs are 'clicking' away, the real corporatists and militarists are the ones that really make things happen. 'Clicking' and Joe Rogan are just tools within the power structure and, as such, are just diversions. You/everyone might as well watch soap operas. That is why it saddens me to see Matt stoop down to all this irrelevant, boring, and fundamentally unimportant 'woke' bullshit whether it is Fauci, the CDC press office, MSNBC, or whatever the pop 'issue of the day' is. Move on to important things that will really - as in REALLY - affect your children such as the climate, military spending, corporate profits, neo-fascist evangelical Christian idiots deciding what your children should read, etc. etc. Soon the pandemic will be over and we will all still be as dumb as we were before, and all this bullshit about 'freedom,' 'liberty,' 'to vax or not to vax' will seen as a ruse.
By “his audience is diverse” I meant the people listening to the podcast are diverse not the people he is talking to on the podcast. You want journalists to focus on the stuff that matters, and they should, but to change the things you want to change like the climate, corporate profits, the MIC you first have to take down the propaganda networks that are protecting those corporate interests. By focusing on the easily identifiable lies the corporate media says to smear Joe Rogan people can be made aware that they are not trustworthy, and fewer and fewer people will watch. This could allow a third party to emerge that might be able to make progress on some of the things you want to change. It seems clear to me that the current political duopoly is perfectly happy with all of the things that you think are problems. Also I think it’s disingenuous to claim that Joe Rogan’s guests are only minimally diverse in opinion. And I really disagree that there is no intelligence or insight, especially when you consider the spin-off podcasts Joe is responsible for. Out of curiosity how often do you listen to full episodes of the JRE podcast?
Precisely. It’s a long journey of false equivalencies from income inequality, Goldman Sachs, unfair outcomes for the impoverished to over-wokeness.
Matt is a great writer who can and does make all of his subjects worth discussing, but this constant takedown of the left for comparatively trivial baloney is disheartening. I occasionally enjoy Joe Rogan as a conversationalist but don’t take him seriously as an intellect, and I don’t care about any conversation he has whether it’s with reasonable, well informed people or nutbags. I don’t care if he AGREES with nutbags. He’s a voice on a podcast. I also don’t care if either Red or Blue want to take him down-at $100 million and 11 million listeners, he’s fair game.
I guess I jumped over several steps. I think what set me off may have been "constant takedown of the Left". Taibbi's recent targets have been liberals, progressives, Democrats, whom I don't regard as the Left, but some use that language. Liberals etc. are supposed to have _some_ leftish qualities, like believing in freedom of expression. If they have abandoned this position (which is what calling for Rogan to be deplatformed amounts to) it might be significant to those who have not abandoned it. Since a fairly fundamental principle of the current social order is in question, it seems might be in the bag along with income and wealth difference.
That's a good point, of course. Do you not think it never occurred to me that I could be wrong?? I am paralyzed by that issue. Come on....please. My point is that Matt - my man - used to zero in on banks, income distribution, class stratification, media bias, i.e. issues of consequence. NOW, however, as with his pal, Jimmy Dore, he wants to go into relatively trivial (in my opinion) issues such as the Joe Rogen/Neil Young/anti-Fauci/ nonsense. Please, please, please. And while they are at slapping themselves so hard on the back about how insightful and unbiased they are to actually criticize the "liberal media" as if, see everyone?....I'm not woke too! The fact that the Taibbi is even taking on this pseudo 'woke' issue, which is a relatively benign one in the scheme of things, is not only boring my tits off, but depressing. Please, Matt, take a look at the war machine, income distribution, climate change....for fuck's sake. Who cares whether Joe Rogan is right, wrong, 'woke', 'unwoke,' whatever about vaccinations.
The suppression of Joe Rogan is possibly an interesting issue, not because of its practical or ideological content, but because it is evidence of a breakdown of the ability of the ruling class to protect and compel their narratives and propaganda. That is, what the people getting after Rogan are responding to, which must be their own weakness (or they would not be concerned). This might be a thread worth pursuing. It's like "follow the money" only in this case it's "follow the power."
YES, OF COURSE. But you are all missing the point. There is not a substantive issue about Joe Rogan. BOTH the "conservative" and "liberal" (if you prefer any of those classifications) are irrelevant. They are only semantics that serve....and here it comes....to stall and deflect while the real issues of social and societal changes can really and truly change. While all of you are dicking around about Neil, Joe, anti-vaxxers, Anthony Fauci, etc. etc. , the rich are getting richer and the fucking Republicans are screwing everyone. In short, the MSM and the Republicans are probably all laughing their way to the bank while Matt Taibbi and, apparently, all of you are fixated on "woke." Follow the money, folks. As big an asshole that Trump and his Republican whores are (and will always be), they are making hay (as they say in the Midwest) while we dumbass "liberals" are writing about 'woke." Believe me, to the eternal regrets of us and our children, we and Matt have been taken to the cleaners by the "conservatives" and the "Republicans" (the distinction being totally meaningless, by the way). In short, forget about Joe Rogan; he is an unsuspecting idiot being used by the ruling class for THEIR purposes. The content (if one can EVER subscribe "content" to Joe Rogan) is a side show.
Well, it's interesting. We have people who call themselves 'liberals' trying to gin up a war with Russia -- although I guess I have to concede that liberals have certainly supplied their share of warmongers in past epochs -- and professing affection for the secret police, and now here we have them trying to suppress speech on the grounds that it is contrary to authority. I think that's a significant evolution. I think it's worth discussing.
You're exactly right, in my view. This woke BS, and the culture war generally are explicitly a distraction to get the working class to fight with each other as opposed to realizing who the real enemy is.
Is there a chance you are underestimating the significance of a coordinated effort to control the narrative? How easy it is to dismiss people as “far right” conspiracy theorist? It’s like a magic spell, and it gets push so relentlessly and with such practice that it’s pretty terrifying. Look at how easy it is to get one guy to show up at some corner of a protest with a nazi flag and watch how every media story has the same narrative and the same single image.
Jesus.....of course I am not underestimating controlling the narrative. My single point has nothing to do with 'conspiracy' or 'far right' or whatever...or even 'far left.' So, yeah, a single asshole waving a flag on the corner can say pretty much anything....and get MEDIA attention. That has NOTHING to do with anything, however, other than how corrupt our own media has become to even allow you to say something so depressing. Forget all this, get the babies and young kids some good education and hope that our generation dies off as fast as possible before it is too late, which it probably already is. Why is everyone so fixated on Joe Rogan?....he is a nobody ALREADY and will be even less so as things descend into the shitter....precisely what the 'ruling class' wants. This is not that difficult, folks. Matt Taibbi was on this years ago...but now look what has happened. He has gone to the other side. Keep talking about "woke" and "Joe FUCKING Rogan".....that is what the ruling class hopes we do, anyway. Right?....Matt?
What percentage of the population do you believe thinks the main stream media is propaganda? Like if you were to graph it over time would it look exponential? The Joe Rogan stuff is a red pill experience mill. It exposes the media to the people who are not as far down the rabbit hole as you are. Also Joe Rogan gets clicks bro.😂
Did I use the word 'propaganda?' No. 'Propaganda' assumes the editors, writers, broadcasters, etc. etc. or whoever you define are some monolithic block. You also use words like 'rabbit hole', 'red pill', etc. as if everyone watches some dumbass trendy Hollywood 'movie' has coalesced around some "significant' meaning. Use words, not manufactured Hollywood-manufactured phrases, "bro." Yeah, Joe Rogan gets clicks...but so does everyone else in the universe with a computer. Whatever are you talking about???? And, I am reasonably sure I am not your 'bro.'
I thought the emoji would indicate that the bro statement was a joke, I guess there is a different syntax for that? I am sorry about that. I do not know you, and I do not know what you know, which leaves so much room for misinterpretations. What I meant by Joe Rogan gets clicks is that when anyone talks about Joe Rogan they get more views on their content, I guess it was a cynically flippant dig at all of marketing. But I do think that it’s important for journalists to talk about how the media splits events/topics into diametrically opposed beliefs and then relentlessly bombards people with those two narratives. Joe Rogan is important because his audience is too diverse. There is too much of a mix of right wing and left wing people and too many followers. It’s not important because it relates to ‘wokeness’ it’s important because you can use joe Rogan to show both the right and the left that the division is manufactured. Joe rogan is a short circuit in the system.
Thank you for your response; I didn't mean to be rude. And don't laugh but I (famously) don't use emoji's and avoid them whenever I can so I don't get them. I even ask people whenever they write me NOT to use them; I tell them to use their words. Anyway, that should give you an idea of what an asshole I am. Anyway, I agree Rogan gets a mix of people and ideologies and I agree there is a modest - and minor - divergent set of opinions. But, the emphasis is on minor. Sure, you get actors, the the Jordon Peterson types and offbeat academics etc.....but is that really a "divergence" and in what respect does that really represent a 'diversity.' Rogan is an entertainer...fine and has opinions....again, fine. But, has he ever said anything really interesting? No, think about it; he hasn't. He isn't that bright. And I am not being arrogant here....I am not very bright either which you much have realized by now. My point is that here is that modest, marginally 'talented' individual who has opinions and invites celebrities on who also have opinions. Big deal. Go down to the grocery store and talk to the clerks at the meat counter. They are marginally talented too and also have opinions. Fine. BUT, as with Joe (and me) how interesting are they? Really....frankly, not much. So, you can add all of these up to a bunch of 'clicks' and you STILL don't have much: intelligence, insight, diversity, etc. All you got are 'clicks.' And the more marginal people identify with the modest range of marginal opinions from marginal athletes, whatever the more.....well....'clicks' you get. So what? Where is true knowledge or interestingness with any of that? 'Right,' 'Left', 'extreme' have all lost meaning. So a click on one is really not that different than a click on the other. While all of poor slobs are 'clicking' away, the real corporatists and militarists are the ones that really make things happen. 'Clicking' and Joe Rogan are just tools within the power structure and, as such, are just diversions. You/everyone might as well watch soap operas. That is why it saddens me to see Matt stoop down to all this irrelevant, boring, and fundamentally unimportant 'woke' bullshit whether it is Fauci, the CDC press office, MSNBC, or whatever the pop 'issue of the day' is. Move on to important things that will really - as in REALLY - affect your children such as the climate, military spending, corporate profits, neo-fascist evangelical Christian idiots deciding what your children should read, etc. etc. Soon the pandemic will be over and we will all still be as dumb as we were before, and all this bullshit about 'freedom,' 'liberty,' 'to vax or not to vax' will seen as a ruse.
By “his audience is diverse” I meant the people listening to the podcast are diverse not the people he is talking to on the podcast. You want journalists to focus on the stuff that matters, and they should, but to change the things you want to change like the climate, corporate profits, the MIC you first have to take down the propaganda networks that are protecting those corporate interests. By focusing on the easily identifiable lies the corporate media says to smear Joe Rogan people can be made aware that they are not trustworthy, and fewer and fewer people will watch. This could allow a third party to emerge that might be able to make progress on some of the things you want to change. It seems clear to me that the current political duopoly is perfectly happy with all of the things that you think are problems. Also I think it’s disingenuous to claim that Joe Rogan’s guests are only minimally diverse in opinion. And I really disagree that there is no intelligence or insight, especially when you consider the spin-off podcasts Joe is responsible for. Out of curiosity how often do you listen to full episodes of the JRE podcast?
Precisely. It’s a long journey of false equivalencies from income inequality, Goldman Sachs, unfair outcomes for the impoverished to over-wokeness.
Matt is a great writer who can and does make all of his subjects worth discussing, but this constant takedown of the left for comparatively trivial baloney is disheartening. I occasionally enjoy Joe Rogan as a conversationalist but don’t take him seriously as an intellect, and I don’t care about any conversation he has whether it’s with reasonable, well informed people or nutbags. I don’t care if he AGREES with nutbags. He’s a voice on a podcast. I also don’t care if either Red or Blue want to take him down-at $100 million and 11 million listeners, he’s fair game.
Possibly liberals who have given up their professed affection for free expression aren't really liberals any more.
How is this responsive to my comment?
I guess I jumped over several steps. I think what set me off may have been "constant takedown of the Left". Taibbi's recent targets have been liberals, progressives, Democrats, whom I don't regard as the Left, but some use that language. Liberals etc. are supposed to have _some_ leftish qualities, like believing in freedom of expression. If they have abandoned this position (which is what calling for Rogan to be deplatformed amounts to) it might be significant to those who have not abandoned it. Since a fairly fundamental principle of the current social order is in question, it seems might be in the bag along with income and wealth difference.