It shouldn't be that strange. Leftism means increasing the power of the state. Always. Everywhere. FBI, CIA and DOJ are key elements of state power. The antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point.
It shouldn't be that strange. Leftism means increasing the power of the state. Always. Everywhere. FBI, CIA and DOJ are key elements of state power. The antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point.
I've got no real argument with you there, that's pretty accurate IMHO, especially as it relates to the neoconservative right that was ascendant for decades prior to Trump/Brexit. The populist "center-right" (as distinct from the "alt-right") is I think maybe a little different, more open to using the state for social good. IMHO, if our politics were much better we'd work out a common political program that would eschew cultural Marxism and leftist authoritarianism, but also right-wing corporatism and war-mongering and end up with a strong but appropriately sized state that delivered universal public goods enjoyed by everyone and respected individual and communal liberty and freedom.
The Right (as I would use the term) is not going to gut the state. The state is the way they have arranged things for themselves, and it is guarded by the government, the Gewaltmonopol, the monopoly of (supposedly legitimated) of coercive social power, i.e. violence. As conditions become more extreme, the government and the state will become larger and more active in order to keep the lid on for the benefit of their masters. We see this proceeding in the extensive surveillance, public and private, already being conducted; in the militarization of the police; and of course in the conversion of the mainstream media into a propaganda pipeline.
In the U.S. representative democracy, the state is ostensibly a proxy for "the people". While in the real world...
- The Left "leadership" conflates the state and the people intentionally, while their "woke" marks gobble it up. They believe in a Big Brother utopia (which never existed). When they both should, instead, scream 'bloody murder', as they frequently did in the late 60s and 70s, whenever the state and the people diverge. Now, they scream 'bloody murder' instead about ... well, I think you know.
- The Right "leadership" tells us that no state is necessary, ever, to enforce anything ... such as, oh, freedom to perform actual free trades in marketplaces without some warlord swooping in to grab the goods out of your hands. (The latter would be called "crony capitalism", an anomaly that can only by Leftist leadership.) And their marks gobble it up. They believe in an anarchic utopia (which never existed).
As I say below, the terms seem to have been emptied of meaning. Traditionally, the Right was the party of authority, power, hierarchy, social status, private wealth, and the military virtues, while the Left was the party of freedom, equality, peace, tolerance, inclusion, and community. As one can see, almost no one uses the terms in the same way any more. I suppose people that actually want to convey meaning will have to use different words. Or just give up talking about political facts.
Yes, really. Show me where a Leftist government has ever taken power anywhere on Earth, and there wasn't a substantial increase in the power of the security state.
"...The antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point...."
I was referencing the above assertion of yours. Could you possibly provide some evidence that might support this childishly absurd statement---since you could not possibly know that "the antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point...." Got another cosplaying William F. Buckley here---sounds nice and tidy though, does it not. I'm curious: where do punks like you pick up this faux right wing shit. Is this the cool thing down at the video arcade? You all marinate in it.
And why don't you show me where a leftist government has taken power on earth and where there was "a substantial increase in power of the security state." It's your assertion, asshole. I love your play. Make a half-assed, meaningless assertion that I couldn't possibly give a shit about, and then damand that I go do the work to prove your point. And anyway, what the fuck makes you believe I even have the remotest interest in what you think about leftists, state power, fbi, cia, anywhere on earth, yada, fucking yada?
Or that I'm remotely interested in engaging you for even 30 seconds of debate on a topic you clearly know very little about? And especially after your snotty opening demand. And why are you pretending to be interested in this shit? Just feels good to randomly spit out some stale bread you read a week ago in the Daily Caller? Or maybe The American Thinker? Beat it.
It shouldn't be that strange. Leftism means increasing the power of the state. Always. Everywhere. FBI, CIA and DOJ are key elements of state power. The antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point.
And the right means gutting the state, and using its remains to enrich themselves and their corporate overseers. Simple.
I've got no real argument with you there, that's pretty accurate IMHO, especially as it relates to the neoconservative right that was ascendant for decades prior to Trump/Brexit. The populist "center-right" (as distinct from the "alt-right") is I think maybe a little different, more open to using the state for social good. IMHO, if our politics were much better we'd work out a common political program that would eschew cultural Marxism and leftist authoritarianism, but also right-wing corporatism and war-mongering and end up with a strong but appropriately sized state that delivered universal public goods enjoyed by everyone and respected individual and communal liberty and freedom.
20@20 4 Prez. I like this platform.
...I would vote for you, but speaking as a pessimist, I don't think your chances would be too good.
The Right (as I would use the term) is not going to gut the state. The state is the way they have arranged things for themselves, and it is guarded by the government, the Gewaltmonopol, the monopoly of (supposedly legitimated) of coercive social power, i.e. violence. As conditions become more extreme, the government and the state will become larger and more active in order to keep the lid on for the benefit of their masters. We see this proceeding in the extensive surveillance, public and private, already being conducted; in the militarization of the police; and of course in the conversion of the mainstream media into a propaganda pipeline.
In the U.S. representative democracy, the state is ostensibly a proxy for "the people". While in the real world...
- The Left "leadership" conflates the state and the people intentionally, while their "woke" marks gobble it up. They believe in a Big Brother utopia (which never existed). When they both should, instead, scream 'bloody murder', as they frequently did in the late 60s and 70s, whenever the state and the people diverge. Now, they scream 'bloody murder' instead about ... well, I think you know.
- The Right "leadership" tells us that no state is necessary, ever, to enforce anything ... such as, oh, freedom to perform actual free trades in marketplaces without some warlord swooping in to grab the goods out of your hands. (The latter would be called "crony capitalism", an anomaly that can only by Leftist leadership.) And their marks gobble it up. They believe in an anarchic utopia (which never existed).
That was an interesting take on the nation's "left" and "right."
As I say below, the terms seem to have been emptied of meaning. Traditionally, the Right was the party of authority, power, hierarchy, social status, private wealth, and the military virtues, while the Left was the party of freedom, equality, peace, tolerance, inclusion, and community. As one can see, almost no one uses the terms in the same way any more. I suppose people that actually want to convey meaning will have to use different words. Or just give up talking about political facts.
Yes, I agree. And it rather makes for muddled, strangled conversations, doesn't it?
Apparently the term 'Left' has now been completely emptied of meaning. I guess that's a success for somebody.
Really?
Yes, really. Show me where a Leftist government has ever taken power anywhere on Earth, and there wasn't a substantial increase in the power of the security state.
"...The antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point...."
I was referencing the above assertion of yours. Could you possibly provide some evidence that might support this childishly absurd statement---since you could not possibly know that "the antiwar, civil libertarian left is almost a historical footnote at this point...." Got another cosplaying William F. Buckley here---sounds nice and tidy though, does it not. I'm curious: where do punks like you pick up this faux right wing shit. Is this the cool thing down at the video arcade? You all marinate in it.
And why don't you show me where a leftist government has taken power on earth and where there was "a substantial increase in power of the security state." It's your assertion, asshole. I love your play. Make a half-assed, meaningless assertion that I couldn't possibly give a shit about, and then damand that I go do the work to prove your point. And anyway, what the fuck makes you believe I even have the remotest interest in what you think about leftists, state power, fbi, cia, anywhere on earth, yada, fucking yada?
Or that I'm remotely interested in engaging you for even 30 seconds of debate on a topic you clearly know very little about? And especially after your snotty opening demand. And why are you pretending to be interested in this shit? Just feels good to randomly spit out some stale bread you read a week ago in the Daily Caller? Or maybe The American Thinker? Beat it.