838 Comments

Afghanistan was a 20 year money laundering project.

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See, Afghanistan was not a failure. It accomplished everything it was supposed to do except for turning Pashtuns into westernized consumers.

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Just wait awhile.

Remember Vietnam, the place we had to go to to fight them over there so we wouldn't have to fight them over here, became a place open to US corporations to outsource production, all so US consumers could buy more for less, and no one seemed to either notice or mind.

While at an anti war protest many years ago, I mentioned to someone there that I was a Vietnam vet and saying the Vietnamese won, as they should have, and he said to me, "No, they didn't win, Nike did." Smedley Butler said it nearly 90 years ago, "war is a racket", and somehow, people don't seem to notice that those who benefit the most, do not participate at all. Of course, with the draft eliminated and no new taxes (indeed, tax cuts from Repubs) to fund the wars, most people are content to go shopping, as we were told to do nearly 20 years ago.

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In 1934, a colossal claim reached the American news media: There had been a plot to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt, in favor of a fascist government. Supposedly in the works since 1933, the claims of the conspiracy came from a very conspicuous and reliable source: Major General Smedley Butler, one of the most decorated war heroes of his time. Even more unbelievable were his claims of who was involved in the plot – respected names like Robert Sterling Clark, Grayson M.P. Murphy, and Prescott Bush. While news media at the time mocked Butler’s story, recently discovered archives have revealed the truth behind Major General Butler’s claims.... hat tip to Arcadia Publishing.

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And FDR let the plotters escape with their heads and fortunes.

Imagine the world today if they had all been executed for treason and sedition?

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We don’t have to wait 20 years this time though. The corruption is moving along at digital speed nowadays. Maybe it’s the lack of ideology involved. We couldn’t set up shop immediately after Vietnam because of the multipolar Cold War. But today, in Afghanistan, there are no such considerations.

In fact, the only considerations Uncle Scam needed from the Taliban prior to pulling out were as follows... The ability to operate a gas pipeline across Afghanistan without interference. The 1998 O.G. Taliban were dead against it, but this isn’t your daddy’s Taliban. Today, the Taliban are far more politically and economically savvy. And they are allowing the energy pipeline in exchange for breathing space. Access for multinationals operating in Afghanistan was consideration number two. With this ensured, companies operating there during occupation can continue use looting... I mean... continue developing... Afghanistan’s natural resources like those oh so yummy rare earth minerals and lithium. A promise to keep thwarting China’s development plans for Silk Road 2.0/ the belt and road initiative as the previous puppet gubmint did for his favorite uncle Scam.

There was nothing on our list of demands and assurances for withdrawal about ensuring women’s rights. Minority rights. The rights of people who don’t want to party like it’s 999 AD, and they are living in a pan-Islamic, fundamentalist caliphate. You know, all the things the marketing campaign for this atrocity said we were fighting for. Freedom and Democracy, equality under an impartial, codified legal system. An end to honor killings and other barbaric rituals. Nope, just some pipelines, a F.U. to China and a spot at the money trough for the rapacious multinationals to keep gorging.

But did we expect? After all, Uncle Scam plays nice with Fraudi Arabia, so surely he can turn a blind eye to the Human rights abuses perpetrated by some tin pot Taliban warlord. How different could it be, ignoring the worst excesses of another ‘moderate regime and nominal ally’ in the region? We do that 10 times before eating breakfast in the land of the thief and the home of the slave.

Be on the lookout for that soon. A new wave of conditioning as the reporting on Afghanistan continues to dwindle over the coming year. Conditioning us hoi polloi to regard the guys who bombed the towers as a moderate regime and regional ally. That might be the hard sell for the suit dummies running the nexus between the media and foreign policy apparatus. But the narrative managers will find a way, no matter how twisted the mental gymnastics and doublespeak becomes.

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So true. It is impossible to overestimate the sheer evil and venality that courses through our duopoly and the corporate world they represent, and who for some inexplicable reason, Americans keep voting for, thinking that this time the (D) or (R) will make some fundamental difference. Perhaps Madeleine Albright's words as Secretary of State, who, as a grandmother, thought "it was worth it" to kill half a million Iraqi children during our bipartisan embargo of Iraq after Gulf War I, might be an indication as to their true nature.

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The forest grew thinner. But still, the trees voted for the axe. You see, the axe was clever, and because his handle was made of wood, had convinced the trees he was one of them.

An old Turkish proverb to sum up duopoly. We get to choose between a red handled axe or a blue handled axe, but either way, Tiiiiiimmmmberrrrr!

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@ Geetchnixon👍

Your axe metaphor is excellent! It appears that I'm going to have to find another subscription fee in my piggy bank.🤷‍♂️

EA

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Omg you hit the nail on the head these corrupt bastards I despise them

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Thank you for your service I lost two cousins in Vietnam

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I lost my brother. He came back, but his mind remained elsewhere ever since.

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I know a lot of those Vietnam guys. The still functioning ones paste bumper stickers like "Honor the Warrior, Not the War" to try to assuage the pain of their sacrifice .. . service.

A lot of the boys coming back from the ME seem dazed, confused and angry. 1000 yard stares.

*Sam Stone came home

To his wife and family

After serving in the conflict overseas

And the time that he served

Had shattered all his nerves

And left a little shrapnel in his knees

But the morphine eased the pain

And the grass grew round his brain

And gave him all the confidence he lacked

With a purple heart and a monkey on his back

There's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes

Jesus Christ died for nothin' I suppose

Little pitchers have big ears

Don't stop to count the years

Sweet songs never last too long on broken radios

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Thanks to John Prine.

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also John Prine:

"we lost Davy in the Korean War,

"and I still don't know what for,

"don't matter anymore"...

from the song, "Hello in There" (Album: Prime Prine)

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I am so sorry for your family's loss, it's at such times we find the true value of both them and our friends.

Death in any war is a tragedy, but death in a pointless war, based on lies, with no ultimate accountability for anyone, results in anger, rage and finally, a loss of respect for the institutions that govern us, and that leads to some form of societal collapse.

Ultimately, there is a cost for everything, especially when the payment is delayed.

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Robert Stone: "The bill always comes due."

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@michael t nola

As ever, well observed. Thanks

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Vietnam's average wealth has increased enormously since it went to a market economy. It's actually quite stunning. You should visit again.

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I'm happy for the Vietnamese, but their economy, like that of the PRC, is a mix of private and state.

In an earlier post, I commented that a couple weeks ago, for no particular reason, I looked at a Google maps of the A Shau valley, the site of my last operation in Vietnam in late summer 1968, which at that time was nothing but mountains with triple canopy forest and a floor that was elephant grass, that is where we hadn't bombed it, with bomb crater inside of bomb crater, the only man made object being a deserted Special Forces camp.

Looking at it today, seeing villages, hotels, restaurants, markets, even a guided tour to Hamburger Hill, the place where a couple years after my time there, the 101st suffered horrible casualties taking that hill, only to then leave it and to once again be NVA controlled, I was certain there was some mistake, so I zoomed out, going eastward, and sure enough, there were the familiar foothills, the Perfume river, Hue and finally the ocean.

What was in my brain, just as what has been in the brains of our political and military elite regarding these disastrous wars, has all been an illusion, one of American exceptionalism, and a world view we had better reject.

The difference between those beliefs was quite different, however; mine was one based on a youthful memory and quite harmless; theirs has led to vast human suffering and waste of money and resources, with absolutely no accountability at all, nor will there ever be.

No, I won't go back, and while I know they tend to like Americans, they should hate me, and that is a fact I cannot forget.

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Capitalism cures poverty.

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"Raises all boats but only if you have a boat"

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Worst economic system, except all others.

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for some. but not all.

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For all with caveat that you gotta want it.

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@Nathan

I agree with your description, and I applaud your suggestion.

Simply know that for *many Vietnam Vets, going back can be

the *ultimate "big lift".

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And "Climate Change" hysteria is 50. First it was a "New Ice Age" but that didn't work out so well.....

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This is l-o-n-g, but interesting to think about. It tends to put things in perspective.

Mark Simone

The List Of 120 Years Of Climate Scares By Scientists

By Mark Simone

Oct 9, 2019

Scientists seeking funding and journalists seeking an audience agree: panic sells.

“Global cooling is going to kills us all!” “No, wait: global warming is going to kill us all!”

Here's the list - an amazing chronology of the last 120 years of scare-mongering on climate

1895 - Geologists Think theWorld May Be Frozen Up Again – New York Times, February 1895

1902 - “Disappearing Glaciers…deteriorating slowly, with a persistency that means their final annihilation…scientific fact…surely disappearing.” – Los Angeles Times

1912 - Prof. Schmidt Warns Us of an Encroaching Ice Age – New York Times, October 1912

1923 - “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University, American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress, – Chicago Tribune

1923 - “The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and the southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age” – Washington Post

1924 - MacMillan Reports Signs of New Ice Age – New York Times, Sept 18, 1924

1929 - “Most geologists think the world is growing warmer, and that it will continue to get warmer” – Los Angeles Times, in Is another ice age coming?

1932 - “If these things be true, it is evident, therefore that we must be just teetering on an ice age” – The Atlantic magazine, This Cold, Cold World

1933 - America in Longest Warm Spell Since 1776; Temperature Line Records a 25-Year Rise – New York Times, March 27th, 1933

1933 – “…wide-spread and persistent tendency toward warmer weather…Is our climate changing?” – Federal Weather Bureau “Monthly Weather Review.”

1938 - Global warming, caused by man heating the planet with carbon dioxide, “is likely to prove beneficial to mankind in several ways, besides the provision of heat and power.”– Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society

1938 - “Experts puzzle over 20 year mercury rise…Chicago is in the front rank of thousands of cities thuout the world which have been affected by a mysterious trend toward warmer climate in the last two decades” – Chicago Tribune

1939 - “Gaffers who claim that winters were harder when they were boys are quite right… weather men have no doubt that the world at least for the time being is growing warmer” – Washington Post

1952 - “…we have learned that the world has been getting warmer in the last half century” – New York Times, August 10th, 1962

1954 - “…winters are getting milder, summers drier. Glaciers are receding, deserts growing” – U.S. News and World Report

1954 - Climate – the Heat May Be Off – Fortune Magazine

1959 - “Arctic Findings in Particular Support Theory of Rising Global Temperatures” – New York Times

1969 - “…the Arctic pack ice is thinning and that the ocean at the North Pole may become an open sea within a decade or two” – New York Times, February 20th, 1969

1969 – “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000″ — Paul Ehrlich (while he now predicts doom from global warming, this quote only gets honorable mention, as he was talking about his crazy fear of overpopulation)

1970 - “…get a good grip on your long johns, cold weather haters – the worst may be yet to come…there’s no relief in sight” – Washington Post

1974 - Global cooling for the past forty years – Time Magazine

1974 - “Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age” –Washington Post

1974 - “As for the present cooling trend a number of leading climatologists have concluded that it is very bad news indeed” – Fortune magazine, who won a Science Writing Award from the American Institute of Physics for its analysis of the danger

1974 - “…the facts of the present climate change are such that the most optimistic experts would assign near certainty to major crop failure…mass deaths by starvation, and probably anarchy and violence” – New York Times

Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age

1975 - Scientists Ponder Why World’s Climate is Changing; A Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitable – New York Times, May 21st, 1975

1975 - “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind” Nigel Calder, editor, New Scientist magazine, in an article in International Wildlife Magazine

1976 - “Even U.S. farms may be hit by cooling trend” – U.S. News and World Report

1981 - Global Warming – “of an almost unprecedented magnitude” – New York Times

1988 - I would like to draw three main conclusions. Number one, the earth is warmer in 1988 than at any time in the history of instrumental measurements. Number two, the global warming is now large enough that we can ascribe with a high degree of confidence a cause and effect relationship to the greenhouse effect. And number three, our computer climate simulations indicate that thegreenhouse effect is already large enough to begin to effect the probability of extreme events such as summer heat waves. – Jim Hansen, June 1988 testimony before Congress, see His later quote andHis superior’s objection for context

1989 -“On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but – which means that we must include all doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. This “double ethical bind” we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both.” – Stephen Schneider, lead author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change,Discover magazine, October 1989

1990 - “We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing – in terms of economic policy and environmental policy” – Senator Timothy Wirth

1993 - “Global climate change may alter temperature and rainfall patterns, many scientists fear, with uncertain consequences for agriculture.” – U.S. News and World Report

1998 - No matter if the science [of global warming] is all phony . . . climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” —Christine Stewart, Canadian Minister of the Environment, Calgary Herald, 1998

2001 - “Scientists no longer doubt that global warming is happening, and almost nobody questions the fact that humans are at least partly responsible.” – Time Magazine, Monday, Apr. 09, 2001

2003 - Emphasis on extreme scenarios may have been appropriate at one time, when the public and decision-makers were relatively unaware of the global warming issue, and energy sources such as “synfuels,” shale oil and tar sands were receiving strong consideration” – Jim Hansen, NASA Global Warming activist, Can we defuse The Global Warming Time Bomb?, 2003

2006 - “I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis.” — Al Gore, Grist magazine, May 2006

2006 – “It is not a debate over whether the earth has been warming over the past century. The earth is always warming or cooling, at least a few tenths of a degree…” —Richard S. Lindzen, the Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology at MIT

2006 – “What we have fundamentally forgotten is simple primary school science. Climate always changes. It is always…warming or cooling, it’s never stable. And if it were stable, it would actually be interesting scientifically because it would be the first time for four and a half billion years.” —Philip Stott, emeritus professor of bio-geography at the University of London

2006 - “Since 1895, the media has alternated between global cooling and warming scares during four separate and sometimes overlapping time periods. From 1895 until the 1930’s the media peddled a coming ice age. From the late 1920’s until the 1960’s they warned of global warming. From the 1950’s until the 1970’s they warned us again of a coming ice age. This makes modern global warming the fourth estate’s fourth attempt to promote opposing climate change fears during the last 100 years.” –Senator James Inhofe, Monday, September 25, 2006

2007- “I gave a talk recently (on fallacies of global warming) and three members of the Canadian government, the environmental cabinet, came up afterwards and said, ‘We agree with you, but it’s not worth our jobs to say anything.’ So what’s being created is a huge industry with billions of dollars of government money and people’s jobs dependent on it.” – Dr. Tim Ball, Coast-to-Coast, Feb 6, 2007

2008 – “Hansen was never muzzled even though he violated NASA’s official agency position on climate forecasting (i.e., we did not know enough to forecast climate change or mankind’s effect on it). Hansen thus embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming in 1988 in his testimony before Congress” – Dr. John S. Theon, retired Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program atNASA, see above for Hansen quotes

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I worked in the Arctic over a period of some 50 years, mostly on the Arctic Ocean. The fact the ice is essentially gone in that time probably doesn't mean anything to you. Same with the glaciers all over Alaska; so much ice is gone there is hydrostatic rebounding taking place, so much so it's ahead of the rising sea levels. But... Never mind. Enjoy! Live large! Yee-Haw!

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Like they say on Mars, "dont worry so much about climate change, worry when it stops,"

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The NSIDC states today, “As of August 17, sea ice extent stood at 5.77 million square kilometers (2.23 million square miles), tracking above the last six years, as well as 2011, 2012, and 2007 (Figure 1a).”

Why are you lying?

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Because lying is what people who hate people do.

Tho I am by no means an expert in this field

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Indeed.

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Hello, fool. Or is it just ignoramus? The annual sea ice extent---low and high---means little to nothing when taken out of context in comments such as yours. The dynamics of ice loss include what was formerly the thick (up to 5 meters) 'permanent' sea ice which include(d) the anchor ice in NE Canada and Greenland, the point closest to the North Pole. That ice is essentially gone, replaced by only the annual pack which melts off every summer leaving only traces of the once massive ice pack that kept the core together. Choose to remain clueless, no sweat off my back. Facts are facts.

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Oh, and PS---in the spirit of educating---much of that 'ice' you refer to in such a grant extent of area is slush, it's broken into small floes, brash, there is no cohesive pack left as there once was.

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I guess that particular lying climatebot went back to his wine cave. Lol

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This argument reminds me of the COVID arguments thrown back and forth. Hospitals are overrun!? No ICU beds, we are above 95%. ICU is full! (this summer, with basically zero covid cases, our local ICU was full. A friend with a burst appendix waited 8 hours to be seen because, well, no ICU beds - he was in the lobby, while the front line heroes told him not to complain so much). It's easy to use irrelevant facts to boost an argument. During flu season, that same ICU usually has 50 people waiting in the lobby because, well, ICU is full. we will get to you.

Meanwhile, hospitals can't hire nurses and experienced medical professionals with antibodies are saying no to experimental vaccines because they see the results aren't what "they" say they are. Ever wonder why so many "frontline heroes" are saying no? And why hospitals with relatively empty parking lots are "full"?

It's why I asked, if sea levels are rising and coastlines will be flooded soon, why is our former President living on ocean beachfront property?

Finally, re: Afghanistan...another conundrum. Everyone "knew" that the minute you pull out, the house of cards comes down. Not a single person said they wouldn't drop weapons and join the "winners". Yet the President is on national tv saying the opposite. Did he miss all the briefings? Then, when it happens, he blames everyone else. Strange times.

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No one is debating whether or not there is serious melting at the polar ice-caps. The discussions turn around what is responsible for that and to what extent, mass human behavior could EVER have been significant in preventing or reversing it. I think THAT's the evidence-based argument(s) " 'climate-change' 'deniers'" (LOL!) would like to have.

Yeah, "the 'climate' may be in the process of serious change." Now: What can _we_ do about it and why should _we_ believe those claims?

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@Readersaurus

We can believe those claims simply by looking out a window anywhere

out here in the West, where each successive year is hotter than the last, the water is dried up in all major sources (The Colorado River and Lake Mead,) the only aspect wrong with the Climate Models from the past is that even science now admits that they were *WAY too timid.

So, we can substantiate those claims by observing the *evidence for those claims. Then, we can verify the claims *for the evidence by reviewing the science behind those claims. I took my degree in Science, but only up to the BS level (BS level -cute, ay ?) This science of Climate Change is NOT complicated. I dare say that many people without any kind of science background to speak of, really *are capable of wrapping their minds around it. For those who are *not, they *will continue "fiddling while Rome burns".

See, the scientists who work on Climate Change models, the organizations such as NOAA who *help explain Climate Heating on their *website, who tell us that the global glaciers are melting DUE TO climate change right there on their *website are not just *claiming the reality of Climate Changed as so many climate deniers do in advancing the opposite stance, they are putting their science where their "mouth" is, and daily *proving more of it all the time. For the rest, "there are none so blind as those who will *not see".

What can we *do about it ? We can stop pooping in the very air that we and our children are required to breathe. Remember the first World Wide Covid shut down ? Remember how *incredibly quickly even the most polluted cities on the planet, such as Beijing and L.A. had their *atmospheres *suddenly turn crystal clear ? So these things, under "what can we do about it" are referred to as "evidence". THIS is one aspect shoving the world-wide push to Electric Vehicles. EVs will present Environmental problems of their *own, but we will be choking on *considerably less air pollution poison caused by the burning of fossil fuels. When the skies cleared around the globe with the first big "Shut down", that, my friend, is what a scientist would regard as at least preliminary PROOF that the pollution IS man made from the burning of fossil fuels worldwide. Turns out it is really NOT beamed here from Alpha Centauri after all. ;-D

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I am _not_ a "climate-denier"! There _is_ "climate" (LOL!) and it _is_ changing (usually, but not always, gradually and slowly).

Do me --and yourself--a favor? Please watch the linked program. Just watch it--if you're able to access and use the link (or look for it via another more local BBC progrramme provider), attentively, and think.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06qj30b

Then we can talk about these issues. "200,000" years? ---is, literally, "nothing" on a planet's evolutionary scale. "_Nothing_."

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Climate scientists are almost universal in their agreement that the warming planet is caused by man. There is a term for this era, the Anthropocene . Not sure if it’s formally been adopted however.

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Only those climate scientists who aren't censored are universal in their agreement. There is no such thing as settled science.

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What's with the "Yee-Haw"? You know that weakens your argument and makes thoughtful people disregard your comment.

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@memento mori

Not in my own experience, it doesn't. Given the great content of the balance of the comment, the "yee-haw" is just a dose of good, sardonic humor, in my ear.

The way the Earth is right now, we need all the humor we can *get !

I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time. The *Deadly Seriousness of Global heating; the good humor from *wherever I can get it ! ;-D

And, yes ,memento mori, we are all aware that we are going to die.

Kind of a yawner, tho, we have known *that for a long time. In the meantime, a chuckle or two is the way the Warrior *chooses to face his death. Hiding under the bed has been "done", literally, to death ! ;-D

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"Yee-haw" is what Slim Pickens enthusiastically whoops as he rides the bomb down through the atmosphere in DR. STRANGELOVE.

I thought that might have been Otness's point of reference, but I don't wish to infer too much.

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NOAA disagrees with you. Fluctuation, yes. Downtrend over the last 10,000 years, yes. Gone? Hardly.

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And... the fastest change of temperatures ever recorded in the past 100,000 years. From ice core and oceanic sediment cores.

You must understand (or don't) that this is an unfolding and inexorable series of events. A most definite trend. It is forces larger than most can conceive without significant effort. The Earth is a giant heat engine. And its waters much more consequent than all of its land masses. I've observed this trend. Firsthand. For decades. And you, have you ever been to the Arctic? On the Arctic Ocean? Have you been 'anywhere' that you think you can speak of the Arctic with authority? Do tell. Have a look. Then "do tell."

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

http://www.nomenugget.net/news/noaa-survey-shows-shocking-lack-thermal-barrier-between-northern-and-southern-bering-sea

https://e360.yale.edu/features/cargo_shipping_in_the_arctic_declining_sea_ice

https://mashable.com/article/north-pole-temperatures-above-freezing-europe-deep-freeze#W_XRgyyfuOqN

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/arctic-sea-route-first-ship-no-icebreaker-winter-icebergs-ice-shelf-teekay-russia-a8208596.html

https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/bristol-bay-salmon-are-in-hot-water/

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@Independent Thinker

How about being an independent experiencer ! Come on out to Californina, grab a big chair, and park yer bunz right in the MIDDLE of one, maybe three of the largest fires that the State has ever seen. And if you are afraid you might miss out, no sweat ! These Super Fires have been happening bigger and hotter EVERY YEAR ! Don't forget to bring your own water, bcuz these Western States are ALL having in the middle of a LOOOONG drought. Then when you pull up your chair, whip out your list, and sneeringly read it to everybody going by. YES, going by. They are under evacuation orders like they get now EVERY year ! It is scheduled to come *every year, even hotter, and scientists actually SAY (yes, they have a fucking list TOO) that they can now show *proof that these Western Fires ARE caused by climate change !

Unless I missed it, you don't even CLAIM to be a scientist, but the Western States ARE seeing a HUGE influx of Climate Nay-Sayers RIGHT NOW, *hired by No-Kidding EXXON ! Do your boots smell like Crude ? If NOT, we can GET you a job with the Oil Boyz right here in NEW MEXICO ! They are thicker than flies right now, and VERY rude to people who do NOT swallow their bullshit hook, line and sinker !

Oh, yeah ! Bring your cutsey list. If you are not already ON Big Oil's payroll, that snide and snarky list will show *initiative when we go to get you that job !

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That's cuz the clowns won't clear cut the old growth. Fire is not unnatural, it's the cycle. You probably know that, though. However, it does suck for us short-lived humans who want to frolick in the forest and lament when it burns, or for those who their condo with a woodsy view, but seeds sprout in the rich, fire-charged loam and the forest grows back. For those city types who don't know, it's called 'Nature'.

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'clear cut the old growth' yikes I thought we just had to rake and clean like the Fins.

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@hierochloe

That was certainly the "solution" recommended by that "stable genius", Trump !

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Hehe.

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Who said there is no climate change? My statement is that it is not caused by mankind's activities. Climate cycles have occurred for millions of years. They are caused by planetary forces, including the sun. Local weather events (pollution, fires, cloud seedings) can be caused by man. Weather and climate are two different things. Weather is localized; climate is planetary.

It is interesting how most people here rely on either facts or logically stated beliefs, but liberals on here almost always resort to insults, name-calling, personal attacks, etc. Your post is quite an illustrative example.

For the record, the list obviously isn't mine; the author is listed at the top. I'm old enough to have lived through several decades of climate claims that did not materialize. I also worked for 10 years for the EPA, so I'm not unfamiliar with environmental issues.

Forest and fire experts have pointed out that during the past several years, California has not been creating fire breaks. Apparently, they have failed to cut out old growth like they used to. They feel that is contributing to the fires. The drought is real and has been caused by planetary forces, obviously. There is nothing that you or anyone else could do to change that. The latest prediction by climate scientists now is that we are going into a mini ice age because we are in a grand solar minimum (we're getting less warmth from the sun--something having to do with its position relative to the earth.

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@Independent Thinker

MORE recently disproven BULL, Sir.

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Explain this 120,000 year time-lapse of European glaciation. We'll wait. https://vimeo.com/300291304

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Nice post. Agreed. Decreased solar activity over next few decades. BTW cooling is much more dangerous to us then warming

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Hmm. "decreased solar activity" - doesn't mean the sun is getting cooler - and, in any case, wouldn't that mean that the earth is getting cooler, not hotter? But that doesn't seem to be the case, now does it ....

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Hmm, so the sun has changed it's position, fascinating ....

Problem is too much "old growth" has been cut ...

Drought by "planetary forces" - yeah, climate change caused by increasing CO2 caused by, guess who ...

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The inuit of north america have been telling anyone who will listen that th sun is not rising where it traditionally use to, but since they are not scientists we just call them denyerers.

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I see the Climate Jehovahs here have been offended. Almost as much as the war pigs.

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Apparently! When a belief can be neither discussed nor questioned, ignorance abounds on many sides. There is no such thing as "settled" science; science, by its nature, is based on continuing questioning, researching, and testing of hypotheses.

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@Independent Thinker

Too bad that thinking apparently did not include a course in Logic 101 ! Repeatedly beating on a premise that NO ONE has proposed, is called a "Straw man Argument" in Formal Logic.

In this case, *no one is claiming *here, that there IS such a thing as "settled science", you know, among the OPEN questions of science. And yet you have repeated that twice in just a short run on this queue alone. Take a breath, my friend ! This is beginning to sound like the repetitious drumming of propaganda !

There is no "settled science" because PROOF is the ultimate arbiter of Science. HOWEVER, there ARE proven proposals that are no longer being *investigated by Science, because they are *now simply established FACTS. I.E., the proposal that "The Earth Is Round" is no longer *subject to scientific inquiry, so it has gone in to the realm of ESTABLISHED fact, not scientific investigation.

"Water tends to run downhill", also now a matter of established fact, not scientific investigation. "Burning Fossil Fuels FOULS the Earth's Atmosphere". The only people willing to argue that *are the shills for Big Oil, presently involved in a BRAND NEW energetic *PUSH to reinforce the *old propaganda horse hockey from Big Oil.

Big Oil is now working off of the EXACT "playbook" from Big Tobacco ! You know, those jerk wads who stood before Congress, their right hands piously raised, *swearing that Nicotine is *NOT an addictive substance ? That petrochemical-sounding B.S. technically, and popularly, called "Gaslighting" ?

See, the FACT that Nicotine is one of the *MOST addictive substances on the EARTH, is a scientific FACT, NOT open to "review", right along with Scientific consensus that the Earth *IS Round.

So matters of FACT *ARE settled. Matters of scientific inquiry are not "settled" Science. However, once science has no further *reason to investigate those proposals, they are likewise no longer a matter of Science. They have become Established FACT.

The way *you are using: "there is no such thing as 'settled science' is meant to mean: "there is no such THING as ESTABLISHED Truth." And in that claim, you are demonstrably, and hilariously, WRONG ! ;-D

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The only difference between this year's fires and those of 100 years ago is that now we have millions of video cameras capturing and disseminating the flames in real time.

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@Independent Thinker

p.s. What I *really appreciate about your "list", is that it comes with absolutely NO PROOF. So it has all of the strength and gravitas of a

RUMOR circulating around in a Middle School. Cool !

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Hello? Seriously?

If you'll look carefully, you will see that it is not my list. It is merely a compilation of statements from papers, magazines, scientific papers, or whatever.

Did you actually read the list and understand that the statements on the list were ACTUALLY WRITTEN OR STATED by real people, as indicated? The author merely COMPILED them.

What kind of "proof" are you looking for? "Proof" that the stated news outlets (etc.) really printed those statements?? If so, just look them up--the source for every statement was provided by the author. I imagine you find them there.

I'm sincerely sorry that you're having a difficult time in California, but your posts seem to be bordering on hysteria and aren't logically connected to my post.

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@Independent Thinker

What kind of proof? Ever heard of bibliography for your so-called quotes, so that others can reference the "source" on their own ?

As it IS, there is no proof that these people, assuming that they *ever lived, *ever said these things. Did you think you would be addressing a kindergarten with all of this magical thinking ?

It is not just the average Joe on the street who has recently *disproven this hokey list. The reality of Climate Change was proven by *EXXON back in the Seventies. And *they proved it was man-made, because EXXON was *making it, via the burning of fossil fuels.

This has been proven from EXXON's own *files under a FOIA request. At that time, ('70s) EXXON knew that they were faced with either getting *out of the petrochemical business, or with

launching the granddaddy of all public propaganda campaigns,

*stonewalling the truth for as long as possible. Which choice to you think they pursued ?

EXXON started this present day propaganda campaign, first claiming there was "no such thing" as climate change, and then when the very *environment proved them liars, they admitted, well, yes there *is Climate Change, but it is *not man-made, and it is *really specifically *NOT made from man burning fossil fuels. ;-D

It is cyclical change over long periods of time on the Earth that just "happens". Trust us. No, it is not.

I really don't *care how you, or how Exxon finally "expire from this fair Orb", but you can't image the kind of karma you collect knowingly lying to all the people on this Q and whichever others you are poisoning with this disinformation campaign. Enjoy the money. I know you don't believe in Karma, because, elsewise, how would you *ever sleep ? ;-D

And, even as you extol the glories of reader comprehension, I invited you *to California in the first paragraph. Had you read further, you would have discovered that I myself, am in New Mexico, where we are choking ON the smoke from the CA fires.

But, the smoke from the CA fires are actually screwing up the sunsets in the New York skyline as well. And, catching you out for your inexhaustible lies, is really not the same thing as hysteria. Hysteria is what you must experience attempting to face yourself in a mirror.

Finally, if you understood *anything about doing research via ice core, and soil samples, going back multi-thousands of years, you would know that Scientists have *already proven that the present state of the planet is *not just another "little glitch", just like all the imaginary "glitches" you claim we have in our past, certainly not since *humankind has been aboard the planet.

TTFN !

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How is this related to Matt's article?

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Cousins maybe?

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Matt's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate?

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Global warming is happening. We have passed a tipping point. Crops failed from heat. 118 on the edge of the arctic ocean in Siberia. 121 in Canada. Those are Death Valley temperatures. The next thing is famine.

The problem is that the "Green New Deal" is pure malarkey. It is impossible. The only way forward is nuclear power, and 5 times what we use today.

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@Brian

You are totally correct, Brian, yes. And the recent PROOF all over the world, has the Oil Companies is a panic of propaganda attempting to bring people *back into the foolish fold of the Climate Change deniers. As I say, here in New Mexico I am meeting strangers in the grocery store, the rural mail boxes, etc. sidling right up and beginning conversations with "Gee, notice how local Big Oil is paying for all of our schools?" They are not pleased when you observe the FACT that New Mexico Schools are *proven to be among the WORST in the Country. Maybe not as bad as Mississippi, but running a *close second to them !

So, when I see this bogus list under an online handle that is recently new here, I hear echoes of these Oil Company shills inundating New Mexico right now.

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If Big Oil is so successful, why are they all mumbling ESG now? And the pipeline from Canada shut down. Note also the prevalence of luxury EVs for the 1% to commute to and fro.

Re schools, have you noticed anything about the quality of CA schools? As big as Big Oil is, the largest employer in the USA is the US govt. The trend right now is climate change. That is, until someone notices that the electrical grid cannot support millions of EVs charging on a hot day. Especially in CA. All you've done is export manufacturing to China. And that VOC/carbon cloud does get blown all over the world.

I'm not here to deny "climate change." It's changing. I just know that anything shoveled up in extremis by those who profit from the supporting chin music should be taken with a grain of salt. I was in school when we heard about the coming Ice Age. Now it's the opposite. If it's so dire and imminent, why did the smartest President ever, buy a mansion with beach front property and throw a big 60th Bday shindig?

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That ice age theory was a few scientists not the majority and that was debunked ages ago. Anyway that’s the great thing about science. Once a theory is disproven scientists throw it out and go with the best available evidence. It’s why Pluto is no longer a planet. The problem with many non-scientists is they think science is immutable like a religion. It isn’t.

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They’re like big tobacco but unfortunately everyone loses in climate change denial.

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Yawn.

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@Brian

Yes and fish and ocean critters were killed by the THOUSANDS by overheated coastal waters in Washington State during their LAST heat wave.

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Salmon were cooked out of many streams in Alaska in 2019. All the way up to Nome. The only reason they've done well in Bristol Bay is it's a short haul to the lakes where they spawn, so the trip didn't kill them all off. That said, many were too heat-stressed to spawn. The recent exceptionally warm winters allowed for the successful spawners' offspring to enjoy a higher than average percentage of completing their own 3-4 year cycle.

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Wait. Aren’t you climate Jehovahs always bleating about weather *not being climate? Which is it, oh faithful one? Lol

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@Thomas Heath

It must be a bitch to live in a world of complete "Black and White". Grab a chair, there, Tom bcuz I am *really going shock your professionally paid troll world. We can actually deal with TWO THOUGHTS in our brain at the SAME time. Ask a ten-year-old. So it is NOT always a *matter of "Ether/Or, like it is in questions of whether or not a woman is pregnant.

Often, (and here I recommend a firm grip on that chair), it is a matter of BOTH/AND ! Weather is NOT Climate, but weather is a *definite, and FINITE *subset of Climate.

Consider Miami, a Tropical Climate. Now, does Miami EVER experience weather ? They certainly THINK they do. Is their weather liable to produce icebergs, considerably sub-zero temps and the like ? Do you *ever expect Miami to experience being an *Arctic Climate in the near future ?

Of course not, bcuz Arctic climates do not HAVE the same kind of weather that Tropical Climates have.

See, these "ponderous" questions that seem to weigh SO heavily upon you, really ARE easily explained without over-straining the brain all THAT much at all !

So, Climate = BIG Picture. Weather = *predictable phenomena *within any specific Climate ! Like an automobile *wheel within an automobile TIRE ? See ? Different, but *related things !

I know, MIND BLOWING.

SO ! QED ! Yes, DO go call the neighbors, oh faithless one ! :-D

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Whoa. Amazing. And true.

Yeah, I can't take any doomsayer who dismisses nuclear as being seriously concerned about the problem. But so many of them can't even THINK it.

Not to be too cynical, but that fact makes it seem like they're getting some reward or other from climate catastrophism.

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Must have really been horrible living through the Roman Warm Period and the Medieval Warm Period then. No wait. Those were enriching days for humanity. NVM.

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Thomas Heath

Fails by the logical test of "Non-Sequitur". Take a class Tom, "There are none so blind as those that *will not see." Anon

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The ad hom is the refuge of the moron.

Afraid of scientific truth I see.

Cheers! Lol

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That is part of the story. Now where is all the reactor waste going to be stored?

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It can be stored right where it is now. In ponds, and then casks on site. It can also be recycled because fuel is retired when it is ~5% burned. Japan does this, but we don't. Without recycling the entire high level waste stream can be stored in one football field for all reactors the USA has ever had. It's just not that much. NRC regulations.

It could be stored in Yucca Mountain which is far more than adequate, but that's a political matter and fossil fuel interests know that once Yucca Mountain is accepted that is no longer a "problem", and they lose a PR war playing card.

It could simply be dropped to the bottom of the ocean in casks. There is 4.4 billion tons of uranium dissolved in the ocean already. Casks won't leak much, they will be covered by sediment, and then get baked into new sedimentary rock.

The popular idea of radiation is wildly overstated. You know this because after removing all the water from seawater, what's left over is a highly concentrated form of the 13.3 tons of uranium dissolved in every cubic mile of ocean. That is sold to you as sea salt. It's supposed to be better for you than mined salt which is primarily distinguished by having less pollution and less uranium in it.

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@We have a monster share of it right here, only slightly underground, and leaking like a blacked out drunk in an alley, right here in New Mexico ! I suppose we "deserve" it, since much of it began right here.

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@Brian

Nuclear power is a TOTAL non-starter from the git-go. Simply BECAUSE we have not solved that pesky little fuel rod disposal problem.

In addition, Nuclear is the MOST expensive, MOST dangerous, MOST insane solution on the *Planet to the problem of boiling fucking *WATER. Because, as you *MUST know, that is *all that the nuclear reactors in a power plant actually DO. Boil water into steam for spinning the turbine generators.

You can't TRULY believe that a freakin' Nuclear PLANT is the most elegant solution for boiling water ! The ONLY people I have ever met who can "bullshit defend" that entire *idea with a straight face, are all people who have a FINANCIAL interest in reviving nuclear power.

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I need to smoke whatever the independent thinker is smoking. Independent? Yes! Thinkers? No! QED

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*JRad

Persons under discussion really DO know how to load a bowl, Yes ?

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Beautiful!

Hanson had the A/C disabled for his infamous testimony in 1988. PBS of all places still has the story on their website. Gotta scare the masses out of their cash! lol

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Post this shit to Breitbart.

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Thank you for this, Independent Thinker. This is incredibly useful.

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Well, that was fun. It's interesting that in 1938, the warming climate was regarded as a good thing (which retrospectively over human history and pre-history is probably fairly realistic -- as a species we do better in warmer climates).

Why exactly was that relevant to a piece on American corruption in Afghanistan?

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Hi, DNY. Probably no relevance! I was responding to someone's comment but I don't remember whose it was. Then it took on a life of its own!

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@DNY

That is a "feature" of this horrible Substack software. The man's post was submitted *long before the comments above it. The other big problems is "message creep" ! ;-D My only defense for that, (and *it is "weak tea") is to tag my every comment with the online "handle" of the person to whom I am originally writing. This way, by the time it ends up aligned with a comment by someone whom I may never even have *read, the new commenter will know that my perhaps snide entry was *not aimed at them !

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There is a serious aspect to true change in global climate that seems to be ignored. Earth’s magnetic field is what protects life on Earth from much of the dangerous rays from the Sun.

It is a measurable reality that the magnetic field is in a constant, gradual state of decay, which has nothing to do with activity on Earth. So as the decay continues more dangerous rays enter Earth’s atmosphere which affects climate.

Believe it or not…

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The reason you don't hear about that is because it's immune to policy decisions, so there's no money in it.

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Good point. Also, there is the fact that since the settled science crowd claims Earth is a few billion years old, the degrading magnetic field doesn't fit in with their scam. After all, how can it still exist after a few billion years?

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Thanks for posting. I had not heard about the magnetic field connection to climate, but it makes sense. Very interesting.

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All that matters to the indoctrinated is plant fertilizer. So much for their “green” bleating.

From NASA in 2016:

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds.

From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.

An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.

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Dear New Green Deal folks,

The problem with increased vegetation growth is...???? You do understand that plants take in CO2 and give off oxygen, do you not? More CO2 healthier plants, less CO2 ailing plants, no CO2 dead plants. And CO2 does not affect planetary climate cycles one way or the other. You've been duped by folks who want to control population, control you, and get rich.

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It really drives the faithfully brainwashed crazy when you tell them the Dirty Thirties CO2 level was 320ppm. Lol

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I've read that as well.

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Since the anointed leaders of the Climate Change Industrial Complex managed to convince the rubes that plant fertilizer is "pollution", it will be ignored. I'm going to talk to my cannabis plants. They enjoy my 40,000ppm exhalations. lol

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@Thomas Heath

Artificial Fertilizer *is pollution AND it is poison ! That is why we can now *celebrate the fact that Chlorpyrifos has JUST *recently been BANNED in the U.S. ! This means that people who can barely *spell "science", are no longer able to *legally poison and kill their neighbors, and the neighbor's children and animals !

And, while we are breaking each other's heart, ROUNDUP (active poison glyphosate) has *ALSO been recently banned in the U.S. ! That was an ass-kicking for MONSANTO, my friend. Poisoning the world for absolute DECADES now, Monsanto. Yes !

So, don't whine to me, address the FDA, and the U.S. Courts !

Cheers !

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Interesting.

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"Cable News Military Experts Criticizing Afghanistan Withdrawal Are on the Defense Industry Dole"

https://invidious-us.kavin.rocks/watch?v=7APO7x7A5V0

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Ahhh...what a non-surprise! After the steady increase in ex (maybe) intelligence agency types showing up as "consultants" on all the MSM orgs.

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@Areslent

Thanks for the URL.

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don’t forget it was also to protect poppy fields so that perdue pharma could keep pushing oxy on it’s heavily addicted users. guess now that we have subscription based “vaccines” they don’t need to worry so much about the opiates as their main cash cow.

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Ouch. But so true.

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Lara Logan has a really good piece about Afghanistan on Fox Nation. Several things not reported in the media.

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founding

Thanks. Probably can't beat these jewels:

Roaming Charges: When the Empire of Graveyards Falls in the Graveyard of Empires

Roaming Charges: When the Empire of Graveyards Falls in the Graveyard of Empires - CounterPunch.org

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/08/20/roaming-charges-23/

BY Jeffrey St, Clair – Aug. 20, 2021 – IMPORTANT: This is incredibly well written !!!

US Created Al Qaeda & $2 Trillion War In Afghanistan—Aug 19 – OUTSTANDING Summary

https://youtu.be/rxHrdicNwss

The Day of the Imbeciles

https://youtu.be/n9ogGxIF_a4

Remember when Raytheon put on a Beyonce concert to promote Adam Schiff?

Truly despicable -- that human excrement is among leading Congress war-mongers and recipient of arm industry donations.

http://politicalpartytime.org/party/36073/

Congressmen Holding Concert Fundraisers Could See a Beyonce Bump | Politics | US News

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founding

Trump’s Pledge to Exit Afghanistan Was a Ruse, His Final SecDef Says - Defense One

https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/08/trumps-pledge-exit-afghanistan-was-ruse-his-final-secdef-says/184660/

Trump’s Pledge to Exit Afghanistan Was a Ruse, His Final SecDef Says. Chris Miller now says talk of a full withdrawal was a “play” to convince a Taliban-led government to keep U.S. counterterrorism forces.

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This same thing will happen domestically with the "infrastructure" package (if passed), just as it did with all the Covid bail-outs, the 2008 bail-outs, etc, etc. If we actually tracked government spending we could lower taxes AND do more for our country. In reality, the federal government can't even account for all it's spending. Pathetic.

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The bulk of the money will go to the administration of the funds, meaning the upper level advanced degreed morons in the bureaucracy will do for infrastructure what the HMO did for healthcare. It's how it always works out.

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Morons? Like the Biden village idiot Jake Sullivan?

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The list is long, isn't it....

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ridin that cantillon effect

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Just look at The Big Dig, it started over 20 years ago and 'estimates say' it won't be paid off for at least another 20 years. The infrastructure package will likely just be another implentation of that, but on a national level.

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...and with a mileage tax attached to increase the bloodletting

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They'll raise taxes or implement a new one in the next 2 years, I reckon. If not sooner than that.

Here it's already gotten terrible. If you own a car you have pay a quarterly tax just for the privilege to do so, which is really an absurd notion.

You pay to the get the car inspected, you pay to get the car registered, you pay to get your license, and then you pay a excise tax on the car after that just to have it.

In theory you'd think the money would be used to create better infrastructure (roads/public transportation), but it's not. Who knows where it goes.

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Catherine Fitts has been on this for years. She teamed up with an econ professor and they've discovered that trillions have been unaccounted for for years (one of many articles here: https://home.solari.com/missing-money-2021-update-with-mark-skidmore/).

No joke, there should be a huge push to rebuild infrastructure, if only for the likely future where China no longer accepts US$$.

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It takes people to build infrastructure. That means people with shovels and jack hammers. Look at our society. Why would anyone subject themselves to back breaking labor when being unemployed may actually pay you more. Most of that money will go to the white collar administrators who will dither for years until the money dries up and then blame the tax payer for not providing enough money.

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They would not NEED taxes. BTW, the "income tax" was supposed to be temporary.

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Clearly universal income is the solution: let's all get in on the grift.

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Ancient Klingon proverb: It is better to die on my feet than live on my knees.

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Don't forget Jet-Setting John and his "Climate" crisis.

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It's been unaccountable for decades. You couldn't hire enough accountants to reconcile the books even if it was worthwhile.

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Oh, it's even "better" than that.

From Catherine Austin-Fitts [https://missingmoney.solari.com/dod-and-hud-missing-money-supporting-documentation/]

"On October 4, 2018 federal government officials accepted the recommendation of the Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board (FASAB) that the government be allowed to misstate and move funds in order to hide expenditures if it is deemed necessary for national security purposes. The new guidelines are to apply to all agencies, not just the black budget. See page 3 of the July 2018 FASAB report for a summary of the proposed recommendations and see here for more detail. See here for the final statement – Statement of Federal Financial Accounting Standards 56.

With the change in accounting guidelines, which is a full departure from Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), only a few people with high level security clearances have the authority to determine what is deemed a national security issue and these same people will now be allowed to restate financial reports in order to conceal actual expenditures without any disclosure. No one but those few people would know that such modifications were made, thus making evaluation of government financial statements impossible. From this point forward, the federal government will keep two sets of books, one modified book for the public and one true book that is hidden.

The FASAB recommendation effectively institutionalizes non-transparency in federal financial reporting. While many aspects of federal finances are non-transparent now because government has failed to comply with existing financial reporting laws, at least citizens had the laws working in their favor. Now citizens have no recourse; non-transparency is going to proceed as a matter of executive branch authority and policy."

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Since most audits are a sham anyway, I’m amazed some firm hasn’t stepped up to prostitute themselves and deliver an audit. Think of the fees.

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Btw, how did that Pentagon audit go? :-)

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I wouldn’t listen to a single thing this government or its media have to say. Why people still believe and put faith in these sectors is beyond me.

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They have nothing else. If not for the state, most of us wouldn’t be here, or so they believe. The states provides. They view it as their mother.

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Rachel Maddow labeling anyone corrupt is really rich. She gets paid 7 million a year to shill for empire. There’s no difference between overpaid pundits like her and a corporate funded politician that justifies boondoggle after boondoggle to keep the gravy train flowing.

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I think the fox guys have turned into the loyal opposition and are much more honest

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is it possible, and hear me out, that they're two sides of the same coin and only switch positions when the admins change to make it look like you have a choice? is it possible? I think so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lzqUe1Qfec

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Yeah I get your point and I agree. When it was the Trump administration the fox guys were jingoistic lying pricks. That’s why I said the loyal opposition a parliamentary term. Now that the other guys are in charge of the administration they are suddenly honest and righteous and trustworthy.

It’s more than possible it’s pretty much a certainty

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These motherfuckers don't care

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At least with the politician it appears to still be a democratic republic.

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That might be one of the understatements of the week.

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I remember reading an article a while back (hell, maybe Matt wrote it for Rolling Stone) about a phenomenon where even the cheapest purchases like a cup of coffee cost exactly $100 in Afghanistan. Why? Because the US occupiers were handing out money like candy, and the only denomination we brought over there to bribe everyone with was hundreds.

America complaining about the corruption of the Afghan people and government is like the proprietor of a crack house wondering why all his clients are addicts. Creating a strong, independent state that wouldn't collapse the second we left was antithetical to our mission. Our commitment to actual nation building and spreading democracy was about as sincere as Walter White's interest in running a carwash.

Anyone who has anything to say about our withdrawal from Afghanistan other than "thank god we're finally out" has something to sell, and it's time to stop buying.

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Oh yeah? Everyone wanted out, Slick. Kudos for the on point, entertainingly presented factoids concerning the occupation, but what people quite rightfully have “anything to say about” is the way it was done. But you already know this.

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'everyone' is clearly an overstatement, I know people not in the 'everyone' camp, some of whom have a greater than zero financial interest at least temporarily at risk from 'getting out'. I think 'almost everyone' is far more accurate. Just looking at the current attempts to form a counter-narrative to what 'everyone wanted' seems to demonstrate my point.

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There was a coterie of neocons on CNN and MSNBC daily warning everyone that Terror had to be fought in the Middle East, Iraq, Iran etc. Some of them wrote books, saying, "orange man bad" - he will create nuclear holocaust on behalf of the Russians. He's on the payroll! He's trying to take apart NATO! Get him out while the getting is good and get someone really competent in there, like President Biden. And here we are. Can't you just picture President Biden, rallying the troops at Valley Forge? You can't? Come on man!

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"Can't you just picture" that's a hard nope, Honestly I'm absolutely stunned he pulled the plug - we have to listen for the sucking sound when it pops up next, at least the part that does actually stop/move. No doubt this type of crap is going to continue: https://theintercept.com/2020/12/18/afghanistan-cia-militia-01-strike-force/

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Sigh

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What's the deal with the the back-up deflection from the point? What's in it for you guys to ignore and deflect the the fact that the most well funded, sophisticated military known to man obviously and intentionally left up to 40k Americans and billions in state of the art equipment to a known enemy when there were dozens of other ways and tons of time to plan things out for a more optimal outcome? What's with the comedy routine and the red herrings?

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For myself, other than the ridiculous 'everyone, slick' snarky hyperbole that's simply not even close to true (pointing it out is hardly a red herring), I'm in total agreement about the shitshow execution. Shitty framing doesn't help a good point.

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Fine, try this: everyone that isn’t a smelly, mercenary, pos wanted out. Like that doesn’t go without saying. And using a comedy intro leading into straight-up bullying of everyone into dropping the point and just agreeing that there is nothing more to question or be concerned with now that we are out of there, reeks of a tactic with an agenda behind it: soften them up and then tell them to just shut up about it. And certainly people started rolling over for that easy out. It’s the literary equivalent of a shiny object. Oh, and I’ll frame things anyway I want to. Obviously.

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I'm personally thrilled. None of my friends have to be CAOs anymore.

A female MSG named Yoly is someone i'm thinking about here. Really broke her up doing that. She was a great soldier but that was not duty that worked for her.

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I was attending college in Wilkes-Barre, PA when Hurricane Agnes hit in 1972. That was an election year. Virtually the entire city was flooded by the Susquehanna River. The damage was biblical. I went to work during that summer, working on cleanup crews. You were paid cash daily. I saw guys signing up for multiple crews, working one, and collecting on 3 or 4. These crooks tried to make me feel like a chump for not doing it. That was small potatoes. I saw waste everywhere. Nixon, along w/ burglarizing the Dem Headquarters, send a flood of dollars for mobile homes, repairs, cleanup, etc. I saw people get 2 or 3 mobile homes for free. They would live in one and rent out the other 2. I was raised as a libertarian. This experience galvanized that libertarianism. Waste and fraud exists systemically in all governments. That's why we need MUCH less government.

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Years after Katrina on the LA interstate north of Slidell on the way to Jackson there sat a field of hundreds if not thousands of unused rotting mobile home trailers the federal government had bought and never used. They stretched as far as the eye could see. I never saw one single article written on it in several years. God knows how much wasted money that was.

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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown"...err New Orleans!

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Katrina was a whorehouse.

My boss was sending people down to help out. I asked him if I could go, wanted to help. He said "you don't want to go there". He was right.

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"Katrina was a whorehouse."

It hit New Orleans, so ya it was.

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I know you were kidding, but I meant it was disorganized and lots of waste that was winked at. The government just dumped money and people on it but that wasn't going to salvage the nation's impression of what went on there. The stories I heard from people coming back - a lot of them just sat in trailers waiting for direction which never came.

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Wasn't there something about them full of asbestos?

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Pretty sure they were all offgassing Formadehyde and the like from the glues and crap. Add heat. Add humidity.

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Ah, maybe that was it - I knew they were pretty much unfit for human habitation for one reason or another ...

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@SH

Yup, that was it.

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Rinse and Repeat. Remember the converted Hospital ships for Cuomo? WE NEED MORE BEDS, MORE VENTILATORS, EVERYONE IS DYING!!??

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Don’t know. I never saw anything about it. Asbestos had been banned for years prior to that so the federal government buying hundreds or thousands of contaminated mobile homes would be a scandal. Oh, who am I kidding? That sounds exactly like something it would do.

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I’m a libertarian myself except I’ve learned that you can’t fight the printing press. All the waste can always be masked. Look at the national debt. I just know that something will give eventually. Empires fall. Will the US be any different that Rome?

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No.

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People won't write Iambic Pentameter plays about our leaders stabbing each other in the back for fear of being cancelled.

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I saw similar waste in the US Virgin Islands after hurricane Marilyn hit in 1995.

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You're deluded - govt isn't a business. If you hand emergency services, health care, etc.to private companies costs invariably go up & quality goes down. Witness the contractor binge in Afghanistan. sure government is inefficient - a leaky bucket. But making govt work better is the point. Less govt means free(r) rein for greedy corrupt corporations - watch your wallet

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Save it for your grandchildren who are currently on the hook for Trillions with a "T" in government spending.

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Yeah, first thing we'll do is cut the trillions in social security youre living off of and hand it over to JP Morgan to manage -- just like Bush proposed and all small government types want to do. Dog food for everyone!

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That wiff of commie. Can’t miss it.

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You wanna compare what those funds would be worth if that had been done? I'm figuring many, many trillions, with a "t", and that's with allowing JPM or Goldman free leeway to steal 20% (with half of THAT then going back to politicians). Anything would have been better than allowing those funds to just be replaced by IOUs from Congress.

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Lol

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This is the first piece I've read anywhere that actually tells the story. The plethora of pundits puking out their upset with wails of "we left without honor", or "you don't abandon an ally" is total bullshit.

Post WWII, the defense industry found the transition to peacetime activities less profitable; they needed Vietnam. In Iraq, no one seems interested in the fact that Halliburton, who was at the time being outed for overcharging hundreds of millions in multiple departments for totals in the dozens of billlions, moved their corporate HQ to Dubai beyond the reach of auditors. Forget that for just a moment, and question why a major defense contractor is based in Dubai...(?).

In the current tragedy, the receipt trail runs in so many directions I can't even begin to think I know where it goes. Matt outlined the fundamentals, but I know it's gotta be way worse than this. Why isn't this the story? Why is MT the only guy pointing fingers in the right locations?

These are business deals gone bad. Or maybe good, depending on which side you're on. And the story I'm seeing throughout media is complete obfuscatory bullshit.

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Cheney extracted $39 billion from the Iraq war for Halliburton. No wonder he lied about yellow cake uranium.

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author

When I was in Iraq some clever soldier or contractor had sketched Cheney's face in a Halliburton port-a-potty, above the letters KBR (Kellogg Brown Root), where they inscribed "Keep Bringing Retards."

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So many truths appear on the walls of restrooms.

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They were also referred to as "Kill, Bag, Replace."

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founding

This is like a nightmare--I forgot about KBR and it is coming back, thanks for the memories.

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heh. We wished we had a KBR DFAC where I was. They were better than the others. We ate white frozen lettuce and other mostly inedible stuff. The only time it got better was when we made a drug deal with a local company of 4ID and traded T-rat packages for what we had. I don't know why they wanted it.

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Matt, I hope you see this, I wish I posted it yesterday. You occasionally ask for topic suggestions and I think this should be considered, in a way it’s relevant to the situation discussed here. I came across this a couple of weeks ago.

If this is true, and I think it is worthy of serious consideration, it deals a stunning blow to 80 years of what would be a massive lie. Thanks!

https://www.realclearhistory.com/articles/2021/08/01/why_rudolph_hess_was_the_last_casualty_of_ww_ii_788057.html

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founding

I am not commenting on this specifically, but you do call to mind the post-war activities relating to documents that occur in the background. My focus is archives and documents. The German archives were captured and the book, _The Struggle for the Files_ examines this process and the political aspects. I am sure the fate of many captured during that period is complex. https://kathleenmccook.substack.com/p/german-archive-struggle-post-potsdam

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I’m about to read your link, did you read the bit about Hess that I posted? If so, any opinion? I think it’s a fascinating possibility to consider.

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A lot of surmise there.

Deciding whether Rudolf Hess was addled or of sound mind is first on the list of things to determine.

That said, it never gets beyond surmise since it was in the Soviet interest at least to keep the guy on ice until death without being able to communicate. I think the Western Allies cared less after a point and would have released him long before he died. From the Western POV Nazi Germany was over by the 1970s.

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founding

I did read it. It is fascinating. The denazification process was so complex that's why I think if we see the file struggle we realize this. The Bernie Gunther novels address a lot of this with fairly solid historic back-up: If the Dead Rise Not-http://philipkerr.org/

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There were roughly 500 tons of yellowcake in Iraq. How do I know? I was involved in Operation McCall removing it from Al Tuwaitha in 07-08. The former Osirak reactor that the Israelis bombed in the early 80s. I was there, we loaded the yellowcake into "pigs", big cast iron things, transported it to aircraft that took it to Diego Garcia and then it was shipped to Canada for processing into fuel rods.

Truth: most of the yellowcake dated from before the Israeli attack, when they had a serious nuclear program.

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Was it gone before the Iraq war?

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An undersecretary of defense came by about a week before Obama took office and handed out awards and coins to those who had participated. The citation said "For removing Saddam Hussein's Nuclear Program from Iraq". Someone was trying to airbrush history a bit.

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Thanks for first hand info. It beats media BS.

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np. Wish I could upload the citation, it's a piece of work. I'd just redact my name :-)

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No, we removed it in three batches in early 2008. I think Bush wanted it gone before Obama took office (not that he knew that was his successor when this happened in the spring of 08)

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Among lots of other things. I think $39 billion is the just the verifiable amount; he blew to Dubai before any actual accounting of corporate records could be done.

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founding

But his daughter is a Senator.

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Congresswoman and probably not for much longer :-)

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founding

Face palm/I knew that, but because they have only 1 she seems outsized. Tx.

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The termites are in deed very fat now. The house still looks fine-ish from afar. But looking closer, it is full of holes, close to collapse.

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founding

Cheney was VP of Halliburton before he became VP, wasn't he?

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Our current Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, joined the board of Raytheon Technologies after retiring from the army. "Raytheon Technologies Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense conglomerate headquartered in Waltham, Massachusetts. It is one of the largest aerospace, intelligence services providers,[4] and defense manufacturers in the world by revenue and market capitalization. Raytheon Technologies (RTX) researches, develops, and manufactures advanced technology products in the aerospace and defense industry, including aircraft engines, avionics, aerostructures, cybersecurity, guided missiles, air defense systems, satellites, and drones. The company is also a large military contractor, getting a significant portion of its revenue from the U.S. government"

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Certainly add Raytheon to the list. Certainly.

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RTX is a good buy. Pays a dividend and more importantly will never go bankrupt. It’s too big to fail.

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Yeah, but then you have to deal with the morality of owning Raytheon stock. There are better ways to gamble than betting on the war machine.

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Think I'll stick with companies that make 0% of their profits from civilian murder.

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founding

I think also founder Vennevar Bush and his work over the years with precursor to NSF and of course Manhattan Project. It all does connect.

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founding

Vannevar (SP).

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I was under the impression Vannevar Bush was not closely related to the political family.

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founding

Right, don't think he was except through his work in govt but founder of Raytheon.

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At least he's an inclusive and woke monster for the machine.

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It's substantially more tangled than that. His entire finagling of Halliburton and it's offshoots is dumbfounding to read. Halliburton was his baby, but he built multiple layers of distance between him and it over decades, and trying to discern what all the moves were and how they were made is endless fodder for a couple generations of investigators. When they write the history of the world, he'll be in there as a Rusputin-ish type, only way worse. His fingers are all over every aspect of post WWII war machine policy. Him and Carlyle Group, which has also evaded any significant recognition for it's bankrolling bunches of it. MT is just scratching the surface of the American corruption story.

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founding

I don't think this is fair to Rasputin, but agree that Cheney who seems seldom to be questioned is at the center of much. Yes, all these entities like the Carlyle group..I thought they would go away during Obama years.

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Rasputin was a lot of things - a serial adulterer, took a lot of bribes. I don't know if the comparison is that far off.

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founding

I was thinking that his run was short compared to DC. And he was assassinated. Of course his role in the end of empire was not small.

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Granted the short run, though he was involved with the Tsar's family for the better part of 10 years. Besides, Cheney has something of that Rasputinish look, doesn't he?

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Nuh uh... They did not go away. They're locked in tight as ever.

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Yes

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founding

I hate to heart that, but is only option. This is a follow the dots everyone knew but he was bold as brass about it.

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If Halliburton's HQ are in Dubai - does that mean that they can't contribute to any domestic political campaigns?

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If they keep the profits there, they pay no taxes. They said the move to Dubai was not for that reason, but to be more efficient being so close to the action.

Of course.

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Honestly, I have no idea. I know it's a convoluted history and organizational structure.

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This failure was so complete, the corruption so widespread, the mission so confused it is no wonder it is ending this way. If we ever needed a clearer picture of how *experts* continually screw things up, just look at twenty years of American experts in charge of the War in Afghanistan. Experts responsible for the war, but responsive only to each other made this mess.

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Bingo. And yet at least half of the country are willing to hand their lives and freedoms over to another group of unelected “experts” who are still trying to protect us from an endemic virus

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Imagine how well our *exerts* will do with climate change...

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Climate is controlled solely and completely by planetary forces, including the sun. Climate cycles have been occurring for millions of years without any help from any living thing on this planet. We can affect the weather a little (cloud seeding, etc.), but climate not at all. The man-made climate change idea appeals to those who are terrified at the idea that they cannot control anything they want to control, and their fantasy that man can control climate is just that--a fantasy...and a delusion. It is now being used by the elites for control (as is the current "pandemic")--and nothing else.

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Even worse is the fact that are present climate is much better for all life on Earth than that of 200 years ago (when CO2 emissions supposedly started to grow). Plants are much more productive with higher CO2. Cool and cold temperatures kill far more people than warm and hot temperatures, even in warm countries like Greece, or Brazil, or Thailand, .... .

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Tell that to the coral reefs, or the acres of trees burned, or the land flooded, or the folks who died from heat stroke .....

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Oh good god. Stop watching CNBC for your "science" news. Climate-related deaths are down 95% in the last 100 years. Look it up. It's easy.

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@SH

And the *thousands of species, from animals to insects, that have *already gone permanently extinct since that warming got out of hand. This is NOT a "bleeding heart cry" for dead bugs, my fiends, humankind NEEDS insects, perhaps especially pollinators, to keep our *environment in balance. People in Asia routinely eat insects, covered in the most delectable of sauces, as a *major source of dietary protein !

This planet will clearly end, as per T.S. Elliot, "not with a bang, but with a whimper." Whatever the physical causes , the overriding DEATH BLOW will be delivered simply via human *stupidity.

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@SH

We may want to tread easy confusing this guy with actual *facts.

Even oil shills have to pay the bills ! ;-D

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Thank you for commenting. I wish you had access to the scientific information on these matters!

The coral reefs are in good shape. Here's an article by Australia's leading experts on coral reefs: https://climatechangedispatch.com/record-coral-cover-of-great-barrier-reef-shames-climate-alarmists-media/

Acres of trees burned in the US is much lower than when the Forest Service records started in 1926. From then until 1950, the average annual acreage burned was about 27 million. In the 21st century the annual average has been under 10 million acres.

Flooding in the U.S. is less than in the past: here's an article about the worst flooding recorded in the US, in 1927: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mississippi_Flood_of_1927 There are many other cases from the past.

Heat kills FAR, FAR less people than cool and cold weather in essentially every country. This article in the NY Times gives a good analysis of key scientific research papers: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/well/beware-winter-is-coming.html

This paper in The Lancet studied data on 74 million deaths in 13 countries worldwide and found that 7.0% were caused by cool/cold but only 0.5% by warm/hot temperatures: http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2962114-0.pdf

Cool/cold weather is a major cause of heart attacks. This paper shows that the lowest rate of heart attack admissions to hospitals occurs at 83 F, and that heart attack rates increase rapidly under 40 F: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39538

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@IndependentThinker

OF COURSE we can contribute to controlling the climate, simply by assisting Mother Nature in HER work !

All we have to do is to STOP shoving poison petrochemical *pollution into our atmosphere ! We ALL remember the way that some of the MOST egregiously polluted cities on the planet, Beijing, L.A. etc. in literally a matter of a couple of WEEKS became crystal clear, and pollution FREE in terms of air quality.

That was the first *poplar proof that Climate Change *IS caused by man, and man burning fossil fuels *specifically ! CO2 heats the oceans. Heating causes the oceans to *expand, (thus causing sea level RISE). Heated oceans evaporate more quickly into the air at the equator, resulting in *more and *stronger hurricanes ! Stronger hurricanes result in more infrastructure damage, and, naturally, more hurricane-related *flooding. Even our less gifted thinkers can *easily grasp these simple cycles if those people are *not "sucked-in" by oil industry propaganda.

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@Independent Thinker

p.s. The sudden disappearance of air pollution in the planet's filthiest cities was precipitated, of course, by the FIRST National Covid shut down which kept petrochemical burning vehicles *OFF the streets !

The skies cleared as if by *magic. Humankind has the proof of their own *eyes that the CLIMATE CLEARS around the globe as soon as petrochemical pollution is removed. THEN the oceans cool, water *contracts as it cools (reversing much of sea level rise) hurricanes become fewer and less destructive as they have been since the day of creation, less hurricane related flooding occurs, and such like benefits occur right up the line.

This is not even *complicated. Claims that there is *nothing humans can do about Climate Heating have *already been incontrovertibly debunked by, of all things, the first National Covid Lockdown !

And nobody *but the Extraction Industries benefit by blindly going on down that path of "business as usual, folks, nothing you can do".

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What do you mean by "petrochemical pollution"? Natural gas does not pollute at all, and modern coal energy plants only minimally.

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I am perplexed by several of your points. For example, the US has among the LEAST polluted air on the Earth, according to the UN's WHO. The MOST polluted air is in Sub-Saharan Africa, due entirely due to heavy use of renewable energy there.

Natural gas does not pollute the air at all, and modern coal power plants do very little. And of course, nuclear energy also does not.

There is plenty of research on climate science, and the fact is that we don't know how much human activity influences the climate. After all, it was about as warm 1000 years ago (Medieval Warm Period, when Greenland was green) and warmer 2000 years ago (Roman Warm Period) and 3500 years ago (Minoan Warm Period). We don't know why, but scientists recognize several solar cycles influence the earth. None3 of the existing models even correctly models the earth's temperature over the past 30 years.

The oceans have not heated significantly, not enough to cause any sea level rise.

Hurricanes are NOT stronger, annual cyclone activity in the Atlantic and Pacific has been steady for decades. The worst 'infrastructure damage was from the 1900 Galveston hurricane. The entire city had to be rebuilt 12 feet higher.

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@Rfhirsch

IPCC Report:

"Nations have delayed curbing their fossil-fuel emissions for so long that they can no longer stop global warming from intensifying over the next 30 years, though there is still a short window to prevent the most harrowing future, a major new United Nations scientific report has concluded."

And that short window is *not an invitation to keep on shitting in the same air we all have to breathe.

IPCC Report:

"The 10 biggest emitters of greenhouse gases are China, the United States, the European Union, India, Russia, Japan, Brazil, Indonesia, Iran and Canada."

So much for foolish and inane claims of the U.S. having the best air quality in the world. As to the remainder of your specious claims, I will not now dignify them *with a response. And try to avoid debunked sites like Wikipedia when looking for sources that you hope to have people respect.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/climate/climate-change-report-ipcc-un.html?campaign_id=39&emc=edit_ty_20210820&instance_id=38381&nl=opinion-today&regi_id=60261060&segment_id=66766&te=1&user_id=f1b4d079153568c02fd3753030b72377

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@Rfhirsch

So, I see that you subscribe to the Trump attitude of global warming - it is not happening, y'all - it is just a 'hoax' invented by the Chinese. Did you not take even grade school science ?

The U.S. and China produce the MOST pollution on the planet.

Fact

Natural Gas, a petrochemical, DOES pollute the air. That's why busses and other large vehicles converted to running on Natural Gas have not been *replaced as they go out of service.

Sea level rise has SWAMPED and "sunk" many small islands in the Pacific. Pacific Islander locals have been *removed to other, higher, islands. Even Hawaii lost a *tiny island to rising seas. You can still SEE the island, but you cannot step on it without having salt water come up just below your knee caps.

Ocean *Expansion (caused by CO2 added *heat in the oceans) accounts for present measures of sea level RISE. Ask Miami, but not the government in Miami who forbids its own employees from even USING terms such as sea level rise, OR Global warming. When ocean saltwater floods Miami up to the bottom of the bus benches, da gub'mint of Miami forces City Employees to refer to THAT as "nuisance flooding". I am certain that it IS a nuisance, but it is CAUSED by rising sea levels in Miami.

Heated oceans ALSO put more water vapor into the air around the tropics causing the MORE and STRONGER hurricanes that are a MATTER OF PUBLIC and scientific *record by now ! Far from squeezing your eyes "real tight" and pretending it is NOT there, go to the NOAA website where they are thrilled to show you HOW and WHY it *IS happening.

Every example that you present is just *patented bilge. Coal Burning Power Plants do not pollute ? Even *sober trolls know better than to pull that. I have *lived by Coal Burning Power Plants, and you can SEE and you can SMELL, and you can *cough UP the pollution therefrom. On a chilly morning, you will find a *film of black shit that has settled upon any cars parked outside overnight.

Going all "three monkeys" on the FACTS of the matter is what one expects ONLY from Oil Company Shills, who are now out in FORCE because they are panicked by the coming adoption of all electric cars and trucks. They SHOULD be panicked, but that will not stop the changeover at all. Big Oil knows that, they are just trying to *milk the petrochemical bandwagon as *long as possible, even as they sell their own *investors stocks in renewable energy.

Electric vehicles bring their *own environmental problems, but Big Oil is now the Village *Blacksmith, back in the day when the automobile *replaced horses as the motive power in our entire world environment. And I am certain that some environmental "Baghdad Bob" antecedent of yours was there going all "three monkeys" for THEM ! "Ain't happenin' y'all. Now just jump right back on your horses ...... horses ? What *happened to ALL the horses ??? ;-D

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Good grief! So I suppose you have no problem with continuing subsidies to the fossil fuel industry, more drilling offshore, on public land, fracking tar sands extraction - regardless of the leaks (remember the Gulf "spill") the methane production, the water pollution, etc.

Look, I indeed made a stupid mistake, equating ppm with % re CO2 - that was pretty dumb, I'll admit - but if you believe all that stuff you just spewed, you are making far greater mistakes than mine ...

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@Independent Thinker

See, now *that is what I was "on about" debunking *that silliness. Humankind can and *does affect the Climate (not just the weather) via fossil fuel pollutants. ICE CORE samples, and SOIL CORE samples going back thousands of *years prove that fact. Ice and soil cores show pollution first increasing dramatically in years *nicely corresponding to the Industrial Revolution, when England (home to said Revolution) was burning the *softest, shittiest coal that could possibly be found. You know how boring actual *facts can be !

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But to claim to have found the one true cause of the warming--- human produced CO2, is where the fuckwittedness begins.

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There is one knob, and one knob only in the chaotic climate system, and that knob is the plant fertilizer knob.

You can't make this stuff up, but only knobs actually believe it.

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@William Taylor

No one, with the possible exception of yourself, *claims that CO2 is the *only cause of warming, there are *many contributing aspects and factors, one of the *most immediate being methane !

The only reason CO2 gets "star billing", is that *among the many factors contributing to global heating, CO2 is right up there among the TOP of the LIST !

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I sense the underlying message is always something like “us hoomans must be relevant. Look at the bad we did. And now we can fix it.” Saying otherwise would mean that they are specks of flotsam and jetsam. And they can’t have that, or they will need to see your manager.

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Good grief!

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@SH

yeah ...... *really.

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The idea that government even knows what the 'optimal' temperature for life on Earth is -- that's pretty shaky.

The idea that government can get AND KEEP Earth there if we give them enough money and power -- that's pure fantasy

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There are some sciencey ideas that might work. Solar shades, that kind of thing. The problem is if they do too much.

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OK, what's the "right" temperature for the planet? Medieval Warm period? Roman Warm Period? Little Ice Age? ;-)

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Mother Nature's "got this"

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I personally don't really want to screw with the climate, but when 90% of the young ones are convinced that this is the only way to go...one has to give up fighting at some point. Me personally, I wouldn't mind the Little Ice Age, but I like things cold.

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Early Drya?

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HBI

I agree with the "chancey" idea. We simply do NOT know enough to start screwing with cycles *now ! Just as it is now too late for us to "screw with" the cycles of forest fires, because, by now, we have no way of knowing what those cycles *should be, since before we did start screwing with them.

I am a big fan of doing what we can to reduce the pollution. Electric Cars will bring their *own problems, but we are similar to a prehistoric tribe that does not know better than to defecate into the *source of their own potable water. The first step with our atmosphere, is to just *stop shitting in it ! Then we can "go green" from there, if it is not too late. ;-D

Daimler Benz is building its 18 wheelers with a Hydrogen Cell to eliminate all of the *room that batteries require. Already the fossil fuel industry has a scam out there to produce a Hydrogen designed to have *their freakin' gas molecules in it. So, the oil boyz will take a *long time to shake off, but there are better and better solutions coming. Geo-engineering is just *beyond dangerous for a stupidly arrogant species such as humankind. Blow back there, can be a serious *Bitch !

Europe is also building passenger aircraft using the Hydrogen fuel cell. I hope we have all forgotten the Hindenburg ! ;-D

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It's the "sciency" stuff that got us into this fix in the first place :)

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@Simulation Commander

The idea is that if we *stop defecating into the same air that all of us are obliged to BREATHE, the *Planet will find the appropriate point of balance and temperature necessary for sustaining life. How do we know that ?

Because she HAS been perfectly sustaining human life for about 200,000 years to date, before human geniuses began throwing giant monkey wrenches into her *mechanisms for balancing and sustaining life.

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Actually life was much worse on earth during much of the period, due to periodic ice ages. After the Medieval Warm Period (as warm as now) ended, hundreds of thousands of residents on Greenland and Iceland died due to the ice age that followed (Iceland alone had 600,000 population around A.D. 1000).

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You really ARE *completely OFF your *rocker. Seek help.

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@Thomas Heath

Take a deep breath, Brit. Your snark is weaker than your climate stats.

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no, actually, they _do_. That's the easy part. As for the temperature range within which vertebrate life as we've known it on Earth can exist, it's very reliably known. If all you're concerned with saving is simple single-celled life-forms, then you needn't worry about Global Warming.

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We might know the range that life can live but we have no idea what the 'optimal' temperature is -- or even if there is one.

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Haven't thought this through, have you?

Any and every "optimal temperature" as far as this (your words, not mine: " 'optimal' temperature for life on Earth ") is concerned

is bound to fall somewhere (no need to be "exact", which is the point)

"between that temperature below which we know of no terrestrial life and that temperature above which we know of no terrestrial life."

Outside this range, no "optimal" temperature can be found; and inside it, whatever " 'optimal' temperature for life on Earth" means, it must be found if it exists at all, even theoretically.

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SumulationCommander

You might be *perfectly accurate by *now, but we (and EXXON) have been ignoring the build up of Fossil Fuel Warming since the 1970s when EXXON discovered Global Warming by placing a network of their own ships all over the globe, and then extracting data from them simultaneously. This is proven by EXXON's own files, accessed via a recent FOIA request. Then EXXON had to choose whether to *bail on fossil fuels altogether, or give birth to the granddaddy of all propaganda campaigns trying to deny Global Heating. Which route do you think they took ? 97% of World Scientists (basically those who do NOT work for EXXON ;-D, are in full agreement with the science of global heating. The only people still in denial are those who were victims of EXXON's propaganda campaign going clear back TO the Seventies.

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These Climate Jehovahs always cringe when I remind them that atmospheric plant food was 320ppm during the Dirty Thirties.

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It'd a lot higher than that now .....

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I mean, presuming climate change was amenable to human intervention and somehow restorable to pre-industrial climate. That said, we'll never get to that point with this leadership. It's much more effective to blow smoke up people's asses year after year.

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HBI

Primo Comment ! ;-D

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But the pre-industrial climate was not as good as today's climate.

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I know this. But i'm from GenX. We're the forever minority.

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HBI

And doing a *smashing job or the task ! ;-D

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Getting in before the obligatory comments about how much all that wasted money could have been spent at home on “Medicare for all”, “climate change”, or any of the 82+ means tested welfare programs, etc etc.

How about we keep our own earnings and not give it to corrupt politicians to steal to begin with? The only way this changes is if large amounts of us stop paying taxes until the corruption ends.

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A bunch of corps have been following your advice for some time now ....

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I wasn’t giving advice. Just making an observation.

You hear that federal prosecutors? I was not advising people to not pay their taxes.

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Not to worry as long as you use the right pronouns. And for God's sake no misgendering or dead-naming.

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I doubt the prosecutors are monitoring this, odds are they can’t return to their office because of that rascally, or is it wascally?, Chinese virus; so while they still receive their direct deposits from US, they are possibly on a cruise, sucking in massive quantities of CO2, wearing multiple mask. After all, the Federal Government hires only the best and brightest ……

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The prosecutors don’t monitor. They just prosecute whoever the FBI has rounded up and the FBI is still rounding up people that were in DC on the 6th, even people that never entered the capital building or did anything but be there. I wouldn’t be surprised if the key words “don’t” “pay” and “taxes” are being monitored. After all, this week the DHS labeled as domestic terrorists anyone that dissents on the Kung Flu, election integrity and lock downs. Be careful what you think!

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Are you using a VPN? Outside of the 5 eyes?

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Actually, no. The corrupt politicians are now conjuring money out of cyberspace (one used to say "printing money", but no need to bother with paper any more) to spend and waste, and we all get to pay for the greed and corruption indirectly through inflation.

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In the opening paragraph, quoting Ms. Maddow, "This was said to be symbolic of the 'fantastically corrupt elites'" We know where the fantastically corrupt elites are. In the ancient words of Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is Us."

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Hey Rachel, Do you mean the fantastically corrupt corporate media folks--you know, the ones who were paid under the CIA's Project Mockingbird, and who still can "voluntarily" spread propaganda for the CIA if they want to? Those "fantastically corrupt elites"?? You and your buddies?? And your cohorts running the big-tech social media companies?? They are symbolic, alright.

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The spending was the mission. YES. And it was that from the start. One big performative war.

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There was an intent to not use soldiers to the maximum extent possible. The force of contractors on the ground always seemed larger to me than the soldiers. Many of them had fighting roles and amounted to mercenaries. One dude who was my battle buddy in Iraq went into Afghanistan as a contractor for 2 years fixing CSSCS satellite kits with two Sikh bodyguards carrying their ceremonial daggers (and firearms). We were getting paid outrageous amounts to go into a war zone. I know that my full-year pay in Iraq was something like $300k. Short of that, I don't know if I would have gone. Maybe for a little less. But it put a downpayment on my house when I got back.

Activating reserves and sending reservists overseas was something they were looking to avoid. They did call up National Guards, but not reservists. The Guard brigades tended not to have specialists - mostly infantry, MPs, that kind of thing. Even then, you hear stories and I knew people who did 4 or 5 tours in the first 7 years. Good NCOs and warrants were hard hit. They mostly ETSed once they figured out the game that was being played. Really hollowed out the Army.

Always amazed me how a unit at 70% strength would turn into 100% strength in the last two weeks before a deployment. Those were the people that were getting jerked around, being sent back for the umpteenth time.

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Anytime. The guys where I was were Triple Canopy mercenaries - American leaders (5) and about 150 Ugandans. They were the ones manning the towers around the LSA. We had a company of 4ID attached, but there were a bunch of DOE guys there and the DOE had hired the Triple Canopy guys. Some Filipinos who did the laundry and ran the crappy DFAC rounded out things. There was also an Iraqi fire station who ran a hajji store selling smokes within the LSA. After the enemy figured out we were there maybe 3 weeks in, pretty constant incoming mortars and rockets. They didn't like us there. Air support was pretty solid - was used to waking up with some helicopters firing rockets overhead at something we couldn't see. The 4ID guys were great about patrolling. The EOD guys we had with us blew up every dwelling in close proximity with way too much explosives. As usual. We had a mortar position on a couple hundred foot high berm that dominated the local area. The EOD guys would clean out every dud within a couple hours and pass it around the TOC. Kept them busy I guess. Holding a rocket that was just fired at you is pretty cool, actually. My job was signal, making sure the dishes and the servers all worked.

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Closest FOB was Hammer.

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Well a. thank you for your service and b. sorry I was inaccurate. I ran into a whole bunch of deployed Guard units and wondered where the reservists were. The unit I was with was kind of weird, CBRNE focused, and had, i shit you not, "Weapons of Mass Destruction Coordination Elements" or WCEs. The idea was you'd attach one of these to a JTF to handle issues related to chem, bio, nuclear, etc. Technical escort was another duty. One of our WCEs was a reservist unit which literally never was called up.

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You're giving me not so fond memories of preparing for war in mid-2007. There was a whole bunch of uncertainty. I think I thought it real when I got sent to Benning for SRP in November.

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In other words, Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were right.

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Of all sad words

Of tongue and pen

The saddest are these

"Ron Paul was right again"

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Not that anyone listened in the past or will listen in the future. Talk patriotism and it'll all happen all over again. Twice in my lifetime I have seen a rush to war. No one can stop it.

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@HBI

I agree with your overall assessment, but twice in your lifetime, very few *tried to stop the rush to war. That was the *point of essentially eliminating the draft. Civilians would just tell themselves, "Oh, well, they volunteered for whatever happens". The civilian on the street could *divorce him or herself from the plight(s) of the military, and just calm their own consciousness via "Volunteer Military". We both know that the literal BULK of the population of the country, on any given day in the last 20 years, were barely conscious of the fact that we even *had troops in Iraq or Afghanistan.

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This is obviously not beginning of the "chronological" order of the comments.🤔

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Ron Paul was right, and he's been right for decades. The Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11, other than being a convenient patsy. Taking out bin Laden was a matter of clearing up loose ends so he couldn't puncture the narrative. The Taliban could give two shits about how we live our lives here in the U.S.A. Anybody that doesn't have their head up their ass knows that the only reason we had ANY "Islamic" terrorism here in the "homelanduberalles" was because the regime needed scared citizens to buy into the "Muslim boogeyman behind every door BS." The only people who care that the Taliban has their country back are the asshole Neocons (ex-Communists, for those who don't know how to research) who are going to lose billions of blood money for their contractor buddies. We should have never gone there in the first place.

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They also needed 9/11 to push through the Patriot (Control) Act. Does anyone REALLY believe that was created in a few weeks? That was sitting on someone's desk waiting for the right crisis to not let go to waste.

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I don't disagree but it raises the question where those Saudis came from. They didn't dream up 9/11 on their own.

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Oh, I can think of a 3-letter agency (or two or more) who benefited from 9/11 and the Patriot Act.

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Yeah I hear you but that doesn't explain how those guys got recruited and for what ideology. They knew when they got on those planes they were not coming back. Suicide vest mentality?

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Hey be nice to the house of Saud. The MIC is saving using them as an enemy for a later grift. Maybe the war to end all wars even….

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Now that you mention it, they DO have a lot of oil and they DON'T really want to share it....

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@RAH

Precisely ! Which was why, as you have observed, they joined Flight Schools intent upon *only learning to take off, and to fly at "wings level", but never learn how to land. Yup, each guy likely thinking "Seventy Two Virgins, STAND BY !"

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Thank would be my guess, but I really don't know.

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To build and maintain a military industrial complex you need an enemy to galvanize the votes. I mean, there are still bases in Germany to defend against the Russian threat of tanks rolling into Heidelberg (eye roll). If you question that, you will be destroyed/impeached. Yeah, the Russians are coming. They have the infamous Pee Pee dossier. Rachel Maddow said so.

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I don't recall Ron Paul ever saying that Al Quaeda had nothing to do with 9/11.

I do think this is why there are so many conspiracy theories about 9/11, however. To justify the war, Bush and Chaney had to conflate the Taliban with 9.11 and later Iraq, which was all a lie. I think they spread so much BS that they lost credibility and people started to look for alternative narratives to justify what had happened.

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Even now they beat the drums for Iran.

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I'm going to say this here once, I wish they'd make a goddamned nuclear weapon so we could stop hearing this crap about invading Iran.

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If Bin Laden was just a patsy, why did he accept the blame? It made him persona non grata across most of the world and really cramped his style.

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Bin Laden denied having anything to do with 9/11 immediately after the attacks and multiple times thereafter. DYOR.

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But he owned it later.

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Who knows if he was just a patsy or not. He might have been duped, or he might have wanted to be a martyr. Perhaps that "role" made him a hero back home. I don't know.

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Well it's a question that deserves answering if he wasn't responsible for 9/11.

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Seeing what is in this one might help a bit. But I guess American people are of such feeble mind and delicate composure that it might unnecessarily upset them: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/9-11-families-president-biden-don-t-come-our-memorial-n1276138

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Well they certainly weren't interested in clarification. Then again, the Gulf of Tonkin incident wasn't exactly clear either. I'm still a bit fuzzy on that and whether we really weren't in Vietnamese territorial waters.

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HBI

The "kicker" for that Incident, was that if we were not going to acknowledge the presence of either Russia or China in the war (that early on), the VC/NVA had nothing *resembling a Navy to be shooting @ a U.S. Naval vessel to *begin with.

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Card carrying Democrat here. I stopped watching Maddow years ago. She's no better than Hannity when it comes to being devisive. Cable TV, all of it, is the worst thing to hit this country in a very long time. And who can sit through all the big Pharma commercials every 5 minutes? Not me!

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Agree. She’s as awful as the rest and she annoys me with her explaining. She tells you something 10 times, like you’re too stupid to understand the first iteration. Or maybe she’s just filling time

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First rule of television: sell soap. (Soap Operas were invented to sell soap to housewives ripped on Quaaludes aka "Quiet Interlude.")

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Yeah I know. My SO can’t understand why those things are still on tv. Do you think quaaludes were ‘Mother’s Little Helper’ ? (showing my age)

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Let’s not leave out our good friends, “Yellow Jackets”! 🍺

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haha!

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Not Quaaludes but, according to this article, a tranquilizer called Miltown.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmodo.com/this-is-the-drug-in-the-rolling-stones-song-mothers-li-1693032181/amp

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Ack! I read "Milftown."

Anyhoo, that makes sense - 'ludes didn't hit the bored housewife until the 70's IIRC.

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Waiting for Homo Superior

According to the Stones, "Mother's Little Helper" was the highly popular benzodiazepine of the day, "Valium". 'Ludes are introduced to the public long after the commercial release of the cut, "Mother's Little Helper."

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I reckon so. And literally nothing has changed since the 70's, except everyone is fatter and far more Wuhan Pneumonia-exposed.

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A quaalude sounds delicious right about now.

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Fear not: Big Acid is now on our doorstep peddling old stuff like it's new stuff. ;-)

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Thomas Heath

Likewise, Big 'Shrooms ! (psilocybin, for those who missed their Hippy "Daze" )

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HBI

Fly to Amsterdam, and choose right off of the standard menu ! ;-D

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@Waiting for Homo Superior

Right ON ! Rachel is one helluva writer, and she demonstrates a *matchless off-the-top-of-the-head vocabulary for the world of TV journalists, but the "drip, drip, drip, of her Chinese water torture-like *REDUNDANCY (repeating the SAME damned point in different words) drives *ME straight up the wall as WELL !

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You said it better than I ever could!

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Step Up PrEP Up ™ for health and body - Descovy. And then there are the probiotic commercials for women pooping. "Pooping is powerful." This is the End Times ™.

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Two thoughts. The first is that anyone who has lived overseas in a "developing" country knows that payoffs and kickbacks are endemic, and they are literally the only way things get done. Without a developed system of laws and civil institutions, informal arrangements arise in their place so people can conduct their lives with some level of assurance around things like personal security, access to food, jobs, etc. Well-intentioned westerners trying to "help" always struggle with this. You can't expect Swedish rules in a place like Afghanistan. It's not an excuse, it's just a reality that one deals with in a number of places.

But that leads to my second point. As Matt points out, the lack of transparency around government spending - particularly military spending - makes it rife for corruption among and between purely American parties, and there is NO excuse for that. My father was asked to chair a committee to report to Congress about how to improve military procurement. While the recommendations are technical, the gyst of the Committee's recommendations revolved around increasing transparency at all levels. That was in 1961. Seems like not much has changed.

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founding

Plus when you are a larger and richer nation, spending $80B a year in a country with a $20B total GDP just supercharges the already natural corruption. You don't build stability with all that money coming in, you undermine it.

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That's a really good point.

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The way they get around all that is to put up the smokescreen of "you don't support the troops", when of course, such spending has zero to do with them, indeed, such overly costly weapons systems with no accountability for cost overruns or poor performance, make it less possible to pay them what they should be paid, or treat them as they should be treated in all aspects of their lives, and even more importantly, ends up costing them their lives because of under performing in real world conditions.

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founding

"You go to war with the army you have . . ." D. Rumsfeld. Or at least, the soldiers do.

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Too bad that sob isn't alive to have seen this, not that it would have fazed him in the least, as the shitty MSM would give him all the air time he wanted to deny reality, something our elites are good at.

Meanwhile both Michelle Obama and Ellen De Generis are comforting W as best they can, that adorable little scamp.

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@michael t nota

"You have your 'knowns', you have your 'unknowns'; then you have your 'unknown' 'unknowns' *and your 'unknowable' 'unknowns'. Then you have your 'unknowable' 'unknowables ....." Damn ! I always used to wonder whether that whack job ever hung out with Timothy Leary. I mean, Tim was cool, but thank gawd, he was NOT in charge of the lives of troops, or even the "enemies" that troops were *aimed at !

Doncha just gotta *love Moms at home holding bake sales to pay for "up-armoring" the doors on their babies' Humvees in Iraq ? That was the source of Rummy's inane shit: "You go to war with the army that you have ....... horse pucky." Yeah. You go to war with the Army you have AFTER the Pentagon, with that UNGODLY budget, *up-armors* ALL the equipment that the Army depends upon to at least have a reasonable *shot at coming home able-bodied.

What I felt at the news of Rummy's demise was simply immense relief.

However, in this world, a guy like Rummy croaks, and his "clone(s)" immediately "pop-up" to replace him. Attempting to evade these clones is like walking up to a cauldron of boiling water and trying to push down all of the bubbles.

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Rummy missed one, the one that administration relied on for BS'ing ignorant and fearful Americans into Iraq; the knowns that were in fact, not known, because they weren't true, e.g. "WMD being north, south, east and west., somewhat, of Tikrit".

Damn, I'd love for the Taliban to release a copy of their spending fighting the US, fully audited.

Audits, you know, those old fashioned pre 9-11 thingamabobs that responsible organizations can pass.

If the Bush administration(not that Obama or Trump were any better), had been in charge during WWII, we'd all be speaking German or Japanese now.

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@michael t nola

Judging from Rummy's verbal "potato salad", he was *always bluffing, blustering, and playing c.y.a in front of any cameras.

There as *no way of determining whether there was *ever any "there, there" with the Rumster !

And "not true" was just the Calling Card of Rummy's entire Admin.

Audits yes ! One of the *main reasons that the Trumpinator gutted the IRS. I do remember. I think that WWII was the last time that *anybody believed a DAMN word out of our so-called "leaders" In Vietnam, I am sure you will recall the way the Army told the press back home that "We must BURN the village, to SAVE the Village".

When citizens begin buying into double-talk like THAT, it quickly comes to pass that very quickly no one CAN believe a damned word out of any representative of "Officialdom".

I was a Naval Bombardier in Vietnam '69 to '71. ASW flying P-3s. We stationed up in Japan, and daily chased Russian Subs down to the coast of South Vietnam. My overall hitch was '67-91.

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founding

I am not a crook. I did not have sexual relations with that woman . . . Weapons of mass destruction. Mission accomplished. Shock and awe. The beat goes on.

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Don't forget, "that depends on what the definition of "is" is". And while I'm no Trump fan, the obvious BS of Russia both colluding with him and turning the election in 2016, all with around $100,000 of online click baits, half of which occurred after the election.

As a lefty along the lines of Jimmy Dore, Aaron Mate, Glen Greenwald, Max Blumenthal, etc., what little respect I had for libs after they disappeared from anti war protests once the Prince of Peace, Barack Obama became Emperor, the little bit remaining totally disappeared with the four year mass derangement of Russia Gate.

How I hate intellectually dishonest partisanship.

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Exactly! Look at Haiti -- a country which would be proud, independent, and self-sufficient (but still corrupt as hell) without the decay imported by foreign governments abetted by "do-gooder" NGOs.

And . . . military spending has been a target of opportunity since the World War 2, at least. The vast productivity of our industry makes the 'disappearing' of weapons, supplies, and cash a wartime hobby for government and military officials, and anyone else who can get in on the grab. The scope of it can be breathtaking. I highly recommend Rick Atkinson's "The Guns at Last Light" for its well-documented passages on the mass thievery of American equipment and materiel by US officers, soldiers, contractors, and of course, the locals.

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I’ve lived in emerging markets. It’s incumbent upon us to break these corrupt systems. Yes, perhaps difficult for an individual to fight. But the USG? Please…..

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While I understand the gist of this article I'm wondering who came up with the title "We Failed Afghanistan, Not the Other Way Around" as if the aim was ever to do something FOR Afghanistan rather than TO it. Since the U.S. had no business sticking it's hobnail boots there in the first place the title is rather presumptuous at best.

I often wonder how it all would have gone down if Bush had have taken the offer the Taliban gave him ("We'll hand over Bin Laden if you show us the proof") seriously.

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These people were looking for a war. They weren't going to stop until they got it.

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