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angelO's avatar

Between two rigged elections, COVID and Ukraine, I find that I have more in common with Republicans than with the cultists that the Democrats have become.

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shantiwater's avatar

I actually see an intersection between real left and right as we are both anti intervention war and Tulsi connected us on this point . The docs should not have been so easy to access but I’m glad the kid did leak them cause we now know once again gov lied to us about proxy war. To your point the republicans are now the party of working clsss and Dems the elite . It’s reversed so I see your point but trump knows he lied about election fraud. The twitter files however reveal election interference by banning Biden laptop story

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angelO's avatar

"Trump knows he lied"? The US has the worst election integrity in the "civilized" world, and ranks lower than some developing nations:

https://www.electoralintegrityproject.com/eip-blog/2017/1/7/its-even-worse-than-the-news-about-north-carolina-american-elections-rank-last-among-all-western-democracies

So while Trump might not have conclusive proof of election fraud, NO one has concrete evidence of the VALIDITY of the election. As such, and in light of the many anomalies that somehow plagued the Democratic primaries, but not the Republican ones, and the anomalies that appeared on election night in the 2020 general election, I assume that it was rigged until proven otherwise. And of course it CAN'T be proven otherwise.

But other than that, I agree. The GOP, having allowed Trump, whom they hate, to win the nomination, showed itself to be the only pro-democracy party on the ballot, both in 2016 and 2020. And some of them are taking a stand against censorship, and the authoritarian COVID response. Perhaps they're doing so cynically, but nevertheless, they deserve credit for doing it.

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shantiwater's avatar

Trump admitted no election fraud but pressured Georgia elections officials to find votes. No election fraud evidence. But DNC did throw Bernie under the bus at Iowa caucus 2020 w shadow inc and w Debbie wasserman 2016 so definitely election interference hurt Bernie who very possibly could have beat trump 2016 but Hillary was chosen by DNC

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angelO's avatar

My point is that regardless of what Trump "admitted," US elections lack even the most basic mechanisms to ensure integrity, and should therefore always be presumed fraudulent until proven otherwise. But in 2016 and 2020 there too many statistical anomalies, most in favor of Clinton, in the primary or Biden in the general, for any reasonable person to conclude that they were transparent or fair.

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feldspar's avatar

By "reasonable person" do you mean "conspiracy-addled Person."

Confused in the Land of Reality.

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shantiwater's avatar

There has been no evidence that 2920 elections were fraudulent. There were issues in 2016 in San Diego w Dem primaries and votes not counted but unless I see evidence about 2020 I won’t assume fraud

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Adam's avatar

Of course you're totally free to assume validity until there is evidence of fraud, just as angelO is free to assume fraud until there is evidence of validity.

When a new medicine is created, you can assume it's safe until it is proven to be harmful, or you can assume it's harmful until it's proven to be safe.

These are all valid strategies with different pros and cons.

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angelO's avatar

"I won't assume fraud"

That's not now any of this works.

Elections are not PRESUMED to be valid. Particularly in the absence of verification mechanisms. Which means that there has been no evidence that the election was valid.

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angelO's avatar

And San Diego? What about the whole STATE of Cali being called the night before the primary? The millions of lost voter registrations all over the country, mostly among new registrants who were identified as Bernie supporters in the Democrats' database? The caucuses where establishment Dems refused - REFUSED - to disclose tallies? The coin flips in Iowa that somehow all went Hillary's way?

You're either out of your depth, hopelessly naive, or you're a DNC shill, so I'm done with you. If you're the former, go educate yourself. If the latter, fuck off.

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feldspar's avatar

"...As such, and in light of the many anomalies that somehow plagued the Democratic primaries, but not the Republican ones, and the anomalies that appeared on election night in the 2020 general election, I assume that it was rigged until proven otherwise. And of course it CAN'T be proven otherwise."

A quintessential demonstration of the reasoning of an average Racket News commenter. Go to the head of the class, angelO.

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Rob Brown's avatar

I definitely find them easier to talk to now than trying to talk to Blue Anon. I know someone who's MAGA and is open about supporting Israel, which would have once made me outraged given how many people Israel has killed and how many homes they've bulldozed and so on. And I do wish that this person would see things the way I do on that issue, BUT I can talk to her about things like the Twitter Files and the dangers of censorship without having my concerns dismissed or getting called a conspiracy theorist or Trumper. Blue Anon members, on the other hand, *do* react that way to the mention of those topics.

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Lawyers Guns & Money's avatar

No, you don't. Don't fall into that trap. Republicans don't have good ideas about economic inequality or social freedom. They're trying to outlaw thinking about abortions, and making it illegal for physicians to prescribe approved drugs. Democrats are no doubt acting like neocons. But most Republicans are neocons, AND they hate freedom and opportunity, except for the privileged.

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angelO's avatar

"Republicans don't have good ideas about economic inequality or social freedom."

"Ideas"? Who are you, James Carville? Talk is cheap, and Democrats' "ideas" cost nothing, and are worth nothing. Show me the LEGISLATION that your Dems have enacted to make my life better.

And don't get me started on their clampdown on free speech, their persecution of whistleblowers, their rigged elections, crony capitalism, warmongering, the attack on American labor that is their open borders policy, the anti-Democratic opening of the border, the senile puppet with the long record of blatant corruption they installed in the White House, the insider trading, the anti-populist globalist agenda that has them more accountable to Klaus Schwab than to their actual constituents, their refusal to bring M4A to a vote DURING A PANDEMIC, etc., etc., etc.

"They're trying to outlaw thinking about abortions, and making it illegal for physicians to prescribe approved drugs."

Democrats and Ivermectin have entered the chat. See also, clampdown on free speech, dissent, and inquiry.

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Lawyers Guns & Money's avatar

MY democrats? Who said I'm a democrat? On all the issues you note, Democrats and Republicans are aligned. They would like us to think the differences are vast, and one must choose. But the fact remains that Republicans have systematically tried to oppress on social issues. There can be no argument on that one, right? If you need to, look at legislation in ID, WY, ND, MT, TX, AL, TN, MS, etc. You want to support that shit, go right ahead.

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angelO's avatar

What I meant was that "My body my choice" applies to clot shots every bit as much as it does to abortions. Surely you must have noticed that Dems have spent the last two years censoring social media and punishing doctors for talking to their patients about Ivermectin and other treatments that would interfere with the pharma corps the the Democrats REALLY work for?

See, e.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/30/technology/medical-misinformation-covid-free-speech.html

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Burt's avatar

"They're trying to outlaw thinking about abortions,"

citation needed

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Rob Brown's avatar

I used to believe that most Republicans were neocons. But if that were true, then Tucker wouldn't be pulling in such good ratings by taking about going to war being bad. And Trump wouldn't have been applauded by GOP voters in the 2016 GOP primary by saying that Jeb Bush's brother lied the country into a war.

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Apollo's Lyre's avatar

Indeed. I think we are in the middle of a political/ideological shift, and many people are too ossified in their worldview to notice or acknowledge it.

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Apollo's Lyre's avatar

Sure, Neocons and overly dogmatic wanna-be theocrats suck, but I'm curious: what is one of the current class of Democrats better ideas on "economic inequality," beside chanting nebulous, innumerate platitudes like "fair share?" And what are they doing on the front of this "social freedom?" And is there evidence of banning thought by the modern Reps? Banning the murder of babies, sure, but I think banning baby murder is a good idea. Call me old fashioned ; ) I know legacy media and some Leftoids like to conflate preventing the sterilization and castration of children in the name of "transgenderism" with "genocide" or "thought policing," but surely most people see the absurdity in that claim.

I must admit, I did get a chuckle out of the invoking of the ol' Moron King G-Dubs himself with that "they hate freedom" line haha

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