Jeff Bezos made 13bn in ONE day. He could give every American $3000 and still have as many riches he had before the pandemic. No one has to use Amazon for anything! And shouldn't!
Jeff Bezos made 13bn in ONE day. He could give every American $3000 and still have as many riches he had before the pandemic. No one has to use Amazon for anything! And shouldn't!
Jeff Bezos ex-wife MacKenzie Scott gave more than $4 billion to charity. She donated to 384 organizations across the U.S. and Puerto Rico and some of that money came here to Vermont. Our Foodbank got $9 million. That's pretty amazing.
Taxes on what? Stock appreciation is not income. The feds don't tax wealth - save at death. How do you know Bezos doesn't pay taxes? Rest assured he does. On his taxable income and any stock he sells.
And of course you would want the govmint to decide where charity goes, not the true earners of the wealth. Have so very Prog of you. Seems to be a lot of Progs on this site!
13bn in one day would be 4,745bn in a year, which is about 23% of the US's GDP. And Bezo's net worth is estimated at 185bn.
$3000 for every American is $1,000,000,000,000 ($1 trillion), about 6 times his net worth. Try $200 per American.
So 13bn is a reasonable figure for his annual earnings, but 2-3 orders of magnitude too high for daily.
Mind you I'm not saying he's not rich. But no need to add gratuitous zeros. And he did something to earn it by creating a valuable, useful infrastructure.
I use Amazon constantly. I'm not mad at Bezos nor is it justifiable to be mad at him just because he has done far better than you (and me and almost everyone else on the planet). His company killed it and continues to kill it. When that happens many people including, of course, the founder make bank. There's nothing at all wrong with that.
Of course there's something wrong with that. No one should be allowed to make 13bn in one day. After 5 millions income, taxes should be 100%. If you can't live on 5 million, tough. Bezos' goal is to sell anything and everything on the market with no competitors. Good grief, he's now going into pharmaceuticals. Monopolies are illegal and he wants to, as one man, monopolize the world. He's crazy AND he uses seasonal workers that are often retired and walk miles on concrete in huge warehouses and are timed to the second in their work. I've seen it. He's sick.
I disagree that taxes should be 100% and as someone who reads Taibbi, I would assume you are too. You really trust the government with all of that money? I would rather see it used to raise wages for warehouse workers and delivery drivers and provide them with healthcare, retirement benefits, etc. This would enable them to afford housing in and around Seattle, and have their basic needs met. IMO it is always better to put money into people's hands, not the government's.
Simple solution. Bezos could pay his employees more, provide decent benefits, turn up the AC in his warehouses and stop trying to drive other companies out of business. He might then make less profits and income, but there would less taxes collected by the big bad government.
Simple solution - end the government pyramid scheme. Your argument assumes that we must pay all these taxes and Bezos fails to pay his fair share. That's exactly how the government wants you to see things. Otherwise you'd have to question the system itself. And no politician likes that.
Taxes are just laws. Right now Warren Buffet's secretary's income is taxed at a higher rate than his. (He said that.) The rates are set by Congress. They can be changed by Congress. They are the way they are because our electoral system is based on legalized bribery and legally purchased elections, which favors the wealthy over the less wealthy. But that is not written in stone. We can change that. The current extreme disparity of wealth and income cannot be defended because it is incompatible with democracy, a working economy, a sustainable world, human freedom and any sense of morality or justice. It's not complicated and you don't need a calculator.
Tax rates and policy could always have been changed the way you suggest. The state of tax law now is the result of 50 years of sustained assault by the Democrats and Republicans against the interests of the 99%.
With SCOTUS enshrining plutocracy in 2010, it is unlikely you will see a change in your lifetime.
There is no "we" in the US. Common cause and unified action was one of the first casualties in the war that you already lost.
So many poor critics who don't realize that while they were bitching about the handout they didn't get, their overlords replaced the straw cage with one made of stainless steel and razor blades.
So if "we" means the 99 percent, or at least the bottom 80 percent, which is where I classify myself, where do you see yourself? And what are you arguing for? Genuine question.
The problem is they will NEVER voluntarily raise wages or provide benefits in any meaningful way. Walmart was the traditional example. Now itтАЩs Bezos because of the depth and breadth of his reach and the conditions under which his employees fill his coffers.
The people should force the government to use, say 100% taxes to be used for the people. There should be a Universal Basic Income. Every time it's been used, it's be successful; less than 1-2% abuse the program. There should also be free healthcare and education for all. With these three things, people would have dignity, health, education and housing. How about that instead of the billions upon billions given to the making of war weapons, wars themselves (all illegal), illegal coups, and the murdering of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in sovereign countries. Money in the hands of a well-run and honest government could be a good thing. It's time to elect people other than those proposed by the duopoly. We didn't need to have Trump or Biden. It's time to get rid of the dishonest built into the DNC and the RNC.
Your argument is incompatible with the system of representative government in place in the US. The people don't have to force the government to do anything in the US. The government is in fact -- by the people, of the people, & for the people.
What you might be suggesting is a subset of the people extra-constitutionally imposing their will. I don't know that this would be a precedent that would be good to set in any country.
If you feel the policies you mention should be part of US policy, the process for advancing them is very well documented.
Run for office, make the case, win, use the levers of government to make the changes you wish to see.
There is no duopoly in the US. It has been governed as a plutocracy for the last decade.
Who can afford to run for office? Follow the money. ThatтАЩs why the FB Twitters Googles AmazonтАЩs and MS of the world have so much influence. Even running for local office costs money and at least requires the support of people with whom you normally wouldnтАЩt even want to have a cup of coffee.
So privatized fire fighters, private policing, private health (oh wait, we mostly have that now), no public roads, no public parks, more pollution, less vaccines, forget GPS, etc...
But hey -- workers would have their basic needs met.. how?
I didnтАЩt say no taxes, just that 100% doesnтАЩt make sense to me given the government is often irresponsible with our $, and in many cases that $ wonтАЩt find its way into the pockets of delivery drivers and warehouse workers, whereas health and retirement benefits could.
Currently reading many of your comments on the Summers piece, it seems you agree( to some degree).
How are they irresponsible? Start with the 5000 pg relief bill and work you backwards. Defense spending is more a matter of opinion, but my opinion is it's irresponsible.
I never said it was the responsibility of the govt to pay workers via taxes, and I am not aware of any retirement benefits that come from taxes (maybe SS?)
We might be misunderstanding one another. I am saying I think Amazon and Bezos should pay taxes, but that I would like to see them pay their employees and provide benefits to them rather than just have Bezos pay "100% of whatever he makes over $5million" as taxes (or whatever the above comment said).
How are either irresponsible? What makes you say so?
No, SS doesn't come out of taxes.
Where did you get your information on how much tax Bezos and/or Amazon pay?
Upon what basis would the US be able to mandate how much Amazon pays its employees? They already mandate a minimum wage. What do you propose beyond that?
You should always start a retort with "Of course" and then state an opinion as if it were a fact that only a moron doesn't know is true. That always hooks me, oops, I mean, the sheeple.
ItтАЩs not alchemy. None of these people made $$ from turning lead into gold (no longer applicable RE US currency). They made it from You/us. We buy so тАЬstuffтАЭMuch of which eventually end up at garage sales in the trash or buried in a closet somewhere. I like capitalism for the most part even though IтАЩm def not wealthy. I like people to be successful. I also like to see people give back. No one is legally reqтАЩd to do so. Morally - itтАЩs good for the soul, conscience and yes, even business. If youтАЩre going to take advantage of the generous (and f@тАШd up) tax codes it seems almost evil not to give back in a relatively substantial way. Bezos тАЬcharityтАЭ is IMO not that.
Monopoles are illegal. "Take it to court?" What happens when financial criminals are taken to court? Nothing. How many bankers or rich corporation CEOs have our courts jailed? (I saw the Senate GROVEL at the feet of Jamie Diamond when he should have been grilled. Money is the god of the U.S.)
1) Monopolies are not illegal. Anti-competitive monopolization is illegal.
2) To which "financial criminals" do you refer? If they are not found guilty of crimes in court, in what way are they "financial criminals"?
3) It would be quite a project to document all the bankers convicted of crimes, however:
"There have been 59 bankers convicted of crimes, including two executives at NOVA Bank in Philadelphia who were convicted on Wednesday of fraud conspiracy related to TARP funds. An additional 19 bankers have been charged with crimes, with many awaiting trials. "
I misspoke. Yes, the US has been a plutocracy since its beginning. I donтАЩt see it changing anytime soon, not as long as money is god to the 1%. You cited an article noting the bankers who have gone to jail.
Also from the article you cited:
тАЬTop executives at the so-called "too big to fail" banks have avoided any criminal charges, even as their banks paid tens of billions of dollars in fines to settle charges of wrong doing leading up to the financial crisis.тАЭ
As for your definition of whatтАЩs illegal, the unfair business practices that create monopolies, have you listened to the testimonies of those victims of Bezos who, if they want to stay in business at all, must sell through Amazon. It is actually becoming difficult to NOT deal with Amazon, Bezos is so determined to become the one person who literally sells everything on earth. How much do you know about this man?
You wonder about money being the end all of the PTB? Try looking at the illegal wars and coups the US pulls off around the world. ItтАЩs all about money, power and control. The false flags for war, the five big makers of war machinery (which тАШneedтАЩ billions each year so they can throw away the last yearтАЩs stuff to, say, our police stations, and make тАШnew and improvedтАЩ stuff to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people in sovereign countries), the coups when any leader in any country wonтАЩt do the bidding of the US. And this is all our presidents and all our secretaries of state, because the DNC and RNC will NOT allow any candidate who opposes war and wants to help regular people, anywhere near the White House. I heard Obama say, apropos to nothing, тАЬVenezuela is an existential threat.тАЭ I realize then Venezuela was in for a US coup, which happened, but golly Maduro is back because the citizens there have seen how their lives improve with socialism and freedom.
I heard Mike Pompeo announce that the Venezuela election was a fraud before the election. BTW, as the Carter Center has said, тАЬVenezuela has the cleanest elections of any of the over 85 countries theyтАЩve observed. In this last election, 1500 observers from 34 countries observed and all said (even opposing opponents agree) the election was totally free of fraud. Venezuela citizens have the only fool-proof voting in the world.
You do realize we have the richest congress weтАЩve ever had? You do realize senators and representatives can be bought? You do realize the vast sums of money spent on elections, money spent because of the results the rich want from the congress people they put into office?
It boggles my mind that so many Americans believe what they read/hear in the NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX. If you want to be informed, be proactive and seek out reporters that canтАЩt be bought or threatened.
Please donтАЩt feed the troll. This is like trying to have honest open and civilized exchange with a critical SJW.
I get your passion and agree with most of your points but I would suggest informative useful exchanges with any number of engaging knowledgeable and civil commenters
The US is and always has been a constitutionally limited democratic representative republic. It is currently governed as a plutocracy, but has not always been.
Sustained assault on the 99% has been successful over the last 40 years in cementing control of monied interests over SCOTUS, the Congress, the White House, and both political parties. They also control ballot access through these entities -- there will be no voting our way out of it.
The only reason it matters if the 1% see money as god, is as a result of this successful transformation.
If top executives at financial entities successfully avoided criminal charges, upon what basis are you declaring them criminal? In any case, it would be an error to suggest that bankers don't go to prison. They do. All the time. In large numbers.
My definition of what is illegal is as irrelevant as yours. We two are not the arbiters of legality. The practices you refer to are governed by anti-trust law. It would be inaccurate to suggest all monopolies arise from illegal practices. Utter fiction.
You can't just delcare that money is at the end end all of the PTB. You would have to demonstrate that it is so. What is more likely to be true is that money is a motivator for some PTBs and not for others. Black and white thinking will not be a useful tool in resolving the issue.
Putin doesn't do what the US wants. Where is the coup? Melodrama is as useful as black and white thinking.
Lives in Venezuela might have been improved by socialism and freedom if they had ever tried it, but the socialist lip service coupled with internal corruption has made their lives unarguably worse. It certainly is true that the US has made it worse by fair means and foul, whenever it could.
What evidence can you advance that confirms your assertion that Venezuella's voting system is 'foolproof' and is the only voting system on the planet that is 'foolproof'? Extremist statements degrade your ethos and make you less credible, not more so.
Obviously, given the statements I have made throughout the thread, I am aware that the US is governed as a plutocracy, which encompasses all of your 'reveals' about senators, representatives, and pay for play.
How have you quantified what Americans believe, why they believe it, and that they are wrong in so doing?
All reporters can be bought or threatened. What you are struggling toward is improving your epistemological model. How can you know what you think you know is representative of reality.
Received wisdom from any source, whatever you think of their threat level or corruption level, is inferior to executing well on your own synthesis of knowledge.
Please, no psycho-babble. IтАЩm not тАЬstrugglingтАЭ with anything. Venezuelan elections are foolproof; there can be no fraud. Please hear Margaret FlowersтАЩs description of the voting process with each voter in тАЬDecember 20, 2020: (Online) The Venezuelan Election, A Blow to U.S. Imperialism.тАЭ Every step of the voting process is monitored and cannot be finagled in any way. The sweeping election of Maduro was a slap to the U.S. Their recent coup attempt was a failure. The citizens of Venezuela had been brought out of poverty and into middle class and peaceful communities by the work of Hugo Chavez and the election was proof they know what is for their well-being. The sanctions the U.S. uses like road-rage all over the world when they donтАЩt get their way is abominable. The U.S. tries to pull a coup and when that fails, they sanction and when that fails, they create a false flag for war, all illegal. Please count the endless coups, usually using the CIA, and endless wars via false flags; you can probably name quite a number yourself. All our wars since WWII have been illegal by international law which doesnтАЩt seem to faze Americans. People came out in force to stop the Vietnam war, but where have all the anti-war marches in the streets gone? The U.S. is the worst country on earth, followed by Israel, and usually that tail wags the dog.
You claim, тАЬAll reporters can be bought or threatened.тАЭ No true. Not the people I read: Max Blumenthal, Chris Hedges, Sy Hersh, Matt Taibbi, John Pilger, Caitlin Johnstone, Ann Wright, Anya Parampil, Aaron Mate, Alan Macleod, Noam Chomsky, Julian Assange, Tony Kevin, Craig Murray, Ramzy Baroud, Margaret Flowers, Ray McGovern, Janice Kortkamp, Mark Taliano, Patrick Lawrence, Abby Martin, Media Benjamin, Greg Palast, Glenn Greenwald, George Galloway, Miko Peled, Naomi Klein and others. (BTW, read тАЬThe Shock DoctrineтАЭ if you want to understand the overall picture how the U.S. works. Most of these journalists have written for the NYT, and the other so-called sources of record, but at one point or another their work could no longer be accepted at those propaganda outputs, which no longer will print the truth. Those mainstream outlets have all gone bad, have you noticed? They are stenographers for the establishment. Nothing will change with Biden unless, somehow, he and Harris can be pushed to do the right thing. I wonтАЩt hold my breath.
I will leave you with this: тАЬRecognizing truth requires selflessness. You have to leave yourself out of it so you can find out the way things are in themselves, not the way they look to you or how you feel about them, or how you would like them to be.тАЭ ~ Harry G. Frankfurt. In other words, тАЬstep back,тАЭ which is always my philosophy.
That you receive my writing as psychobabble does not establish it as psychobabble (whatever that is meant to mean).
1) If every step in the voting process is monitored, you have already failed to make your point. Voting privacy is intrinsic to free and fair elections.
2) The presence of the military at polling stations is voter intimidation. See point 1.
3) There was no international monitoring apart from an ecumenical group that monitored 3 hours a day only over Zoom.
4) Enumerating journalists does not in any way establish that they cannot be bought or threatened. Any of them could. How would you know?
5) I read The Shock Doctrine 13 years ago. What of it? How do you feel invoking a book supports your position?
6) Media consolidation and the corporatization of journalism is only decades old. Go read the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (that Biden voted for). He helped reduce the number of major media companies from around 50 in 1983 to 10 in 1996 and 6 in 2005. Glad you eventually noticed.
7) I will leave you with this: There is no truth. Just one's best guess at any given time. The pursuit of truth is a vanity exercise born from existential insecurity and low self-esteem. - Chui
In other words "If you don't start each speech or treatise with the phrase 'I could be wrong but...', you are already lost.
HERE: Proof: Yes, you can see it here: (5) Venezuelan elections, a blow to US Imperialism - YouTube. Or just go to the UNAC web site at http://UNACpeace.org and you can find it on the home page.
"Why is it that in the 50's and 60's they only needed one income to live a dignified life? "
You really are clueless. The 50s and 60s [note the correct spelling] were tough for folks of average means, but they made it and, sadly, produced folks like you and other Progs. Seriously, do you do any research or do you just babble and pontificate. Folks struggled then. But they found a way and did not bitch about it, by pointing at others. They lived on less - my mom did not drive until she was 44 years old. Pulled my 2 bros. and I in a red wagon to the grocery, shopped, then loaded the bags and us into the wagon again and pulled it home. We were happy. My parents had one car until their youngest was off to college -- yes, they put 3 kids through college on my dad's low level pay . Of course, we did not think we were entitled to Caribbean vacations, baubles and trinkets. We did not order pizza to be delivered, let alone groceries. Presents were few, but we were freakin' happy. It was their struggle that made their lives "dignified" not their income. You can live on one income today, just manage your finances, manage how many kids you have, manage, especially, your expectations, etc. And learn what makes life "dignified". And stop whining. Especially about taxes paid by others. That is just so unseemly and jealous.
Alas your calculations are not correct. 330 million is right for the US population, but dividing that into 13bn gives $39.39, not $40 million. You were off by a factor of a million.
George's calculations were wildly off, but tell me if this makes sense and is economically, politically and morally sustainable: Three men (Bezos, Buffett and Gates) have more net wealth than the bottom 50 percent of Americans (approximately 160 million people). You don't need a calculator.
Actually, Bezos made 13bn in ONE day, not EVERY day. Besides the math, that amount is insane for one person to "earn' in one day. His ex-wife said, Jeff could cure world hunger if he wanted.
Ah, yes, letтАЩs forgive the math-idiot for posting something so clearly wrong it is stupidity only a Prog could go for. On another Taibbi piece a couple days ago a Prog posted that there were тАЬthousandsтАЭ of paralysis reactions to thePfizer vaccine.
So letтАЩs permit these buffoons go forward without calling them out.
Because your original post was wrong - only a Prog would not understand that. Or a Prog would just believe it and repeat it (I've seen nearly identical posts about Bezos' wealth in other forums). It is the sort of post that creates false information and it gets spread, your "apology" notwithstanding. As I posted a bit later in the thread, someone posted on Taibbi the other day that there were "thousands" of paralysis adverse reactions to the vaccine. A lie. There is no editing on this board - not by posters nor by Taibbi. So replies accomplish the edit.
The message for you and others is if you are going to post a purported fact (rather than opinion) think before you hit "Post". And "my bad" is not an apology. It is a cavalier throwaway statement that you don't think you really did anything wrong. Suggesting that Bozos (yes, intentional) could give everyone $40 million is the sort of class envy and entrepreneurial jealousy that haunts so much of the Left. That is my opinion and I love to post that.
You know, it is perfectly fine to make a mistake, it is not perfectly fine to treat people like they are any more or less insignificant than you are. We are all here, we are all going to die, the least we can do is be kind to one another in the meantime.
If you insist on posting such wrongheaded nonsense with panache, and walk it back with тАЬeveryone makes mistakesтАЭ, youтАЩve learnt nothing where some genuine humility is called for.
I often make embarrassing math errors. ItтАЩs def not my strength. My suggestion: donтАЩt feed the negative here. ItтАЩs the same as trying to reason w a SJW and there are far better ways to spend precious time. RE: Bezos I admired him for taking a garage based book selling business and growing it to make books accessible to so many people.
Now I wish he had stopped there. As someone pointed out yes Amazon did save our asses this last year but consider: chicken or egg. Had the behemoth not existed we would have relied on local business for the things we NEED instead of feeding our addiction to excess- maybe neighbors would be a little more neighborly and help the housebound. Maybe citizens would have taken action against some of the more questionable approaches to the pandemic. Amazon and the others did contribute to division in more ways than one. Divide and conquer- not a new concept.
Jeff Bezos made 13bn in ONE day. He could give every American $3000 and still have as many riches he had before the pandemic. No one has to use Amazon for anything! And shouldn't!
Jeff Bezos ex-wife MacKenzie Scott gave more than $4 billion to charity. She donated to 384 organizations across the U.S. and Puerto Rico and some of that money came here to Vermont. Our Foodbank got $9 million. That's pretty amazing.
Hah! And you all ridiculed "trickle down" economic theory!!
Yah, but only Scott decided where that money would go.
Well -- it is her money...
IтАЩd rather like that they would pay taxes so the decisions on charity could be spread out.
Taxes on what? Stock appreciation is not income. The feds don't tax wealth - save at death. How do you know Bezos doesn't pay taxes? Rest assured he does. On his taxable income and any stock he sells.
And of course you would want the govmint to decide where charity goes, not the true earners of the wealth. Have so very Prog of you. Seems to be a lot of Progs on this site!
Hah! And, of course, a Prog like you has a problem with that. So fookin' idiotic.
If everyone is a "Prog", no one is a "Prog". You render the term meaningless through arbitrary overuse.
Nah. Not overused. Whether u know it or not you are.
I am the only one who does know it. You have no way of establishing that on my behalf - or anyone's.
This is the degradation of your ethos I have alluded to elsewhere.
Just reading your posts answers it. And what the fuck is тАЬdegradation of [my] ethosтАЭ? That if nothing else shows you are a Prog. Deal with it.
Your rhetoric may well be too low-resolution to support that discussion. Deal with it.
That community college English degree is certainly failing you.
In what sense?
13bn in one day would be 4,745bn in a year, which is about 23% of the US's GDP. And Bezo's net worth is estimated at 185bn.
$3000 for every American is $1,000,000,000,000 ($1 trillion), about 6 times his net worth. Try $200 per American.
So 13bn is a reasonable figure for his annual earnings, but 2-3 orders of magnitude too high for daily.
Mind you I'm not saying he's not rich. But no need to add gratuitous zeros. And he did something to earn it by creating a valuable, useful infrastructure.
These are fake money. They cannot be converted to anything useful. If he sold all his shares heтАЩd get a small fraction of the current nominal value.
I think more people are struggling mathematically than economically, frankly.
I use Amazon constantly. I'm not mad at Bezos nor is it justifiable to be mad at him just because he has done far better than you (and me and almost everyone else on the planet). His company killed it and continues to kill it. When that happens many people including, of course, the founder make bank. There's nothing at all wrong with that.
Of course there's something wrong with that. No one should be allowed to make 13bn in one day. After 5 millions income, taxes should be 100%. If you can't live on 5 million, tough. Bezos' goal is to sell anything and everything on the market with no competitors. Good grief, he's now going into pharmaceuticals. Monopolies are illegal and he wants to, as one man, monopolize the world. He's crazy AND he uses seasonal workers that are often retired and walk miles on concrete in huge warehouses and are timed to the second in their work. I've seen it. He's sick.
I disagree that taxes should be 100% and as someone who reads Taibbi, I would assume you are too. You really trust the government with all of that money? I would rather see it used to raise wages for warehouse workers and delivery drivers and provide them with healthcare, retirement benefits, etc. This would enable them to afford housing in and around Seattle, and have their basic needs met. IMO it is always better to put money into people's hands, not the government's.
Simple solution. Bezos could pay his employees more, provide decent benefits, turn up the AC in his warehouses and stop trying to drive other companies out of business. He might then make less profits and income, but there would less taxes collected by the big bad government.
Simple solution - end the government pyramid scheme. Your argument assumes that we must pay all these taxes and Bezos fails to pay his fair share. That's exactly how the government wants you to see things. Otherwise you'd have to question the system itself. And no politician likes that.
There would be more payroll and income tax withholding.
Wealth tax is never going to compete with that in the US.
Taxes are just laws. Right now Warren Buffet's secretary's income is taxed at a higher rate than his. (He said that.) The rates are set by Congress. They can be changed by Congress. They are the way they are because our electoral system is based on legalized bribery and legally purchased elections, which favors the wealthy over the less wealthy. But that is not written in stone. We can change that. The current extreme disparity of wealth and income cannot be defended because it is incompatible with democracy, a working economy, a sustainable world, human freedom and any sense of morality or justice. It's not complicated and you don't need a calculator.
Taxes don't need to be anything other than laws.
Tax rates and policy could always have been changed the way you suggest. The state of tax law now is the result of 50 years of sustained assault by the Democrats and Republicans against the interests of the 99%.
With SCOTUS enshrining plutocracy in 2010, it is unlikely you will see a change in your lifetime.
There is no "we" in the US. Common cause and unified action was one of the first casualties in the war that you already lost.
So many poor critics who don't realize that while they were bitching about the handout they didn't get, their overlords replaced the straw cage with one made of stainless steel and razor blades.
So if "we" means the 99 percent, or at least the bottom 80 percent, which is where I classify myself, where do you see yourself? And what are you arguing for? Genuine question.
"we" doesn't mean the 99% or the 80%. Not in any meaningful way.
There is no common cause, no unity, and no movement pending. The days of all of that are gone for the US.
The populace of the US just overwhelmingly voted for a President who has been the champion of wall street, big banks, and corporations.
He has populated his cabinet with others of that ilk.
Strap in for a decade of austerity.
What does it matter where you see yourself or where I see myself? How would that change anything?
I am not arguing at all. Genuine answer.
The problem is they will NEVER voluntarily raise wages or provide benefits in any meaningful way. Walmart was the traditional example. Now itтАЩs Bezos because of the depth and breadth of his reach and the conditions under which his employees fill his coffers.
The people should force the government to use, say 100% taxes to be used for the people. There should be a Universal Basic Income. Every time it's been used, it's be successful; less than 1-2% abuse the program. There should also be free healthcare and education for all. With these three things, people would have dignity, health, education and housing. How about that instead of the billions upon billions given to the making of war weapons, wars themselves (all illegal), illegal coups, and the murdering of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in sovereign countries. Money in the hands of a well-run and honest government could be a good thing. It's time to elect people other than those proposed by the duopoly. We didn't need to have Trump or Biden. It's time to get rid of the dishonest built into the DNC and the RNC.
Your argument is incompatible with the system of representative government in place in the US. The people don't have to force the government to do anything in the US. The government is in fact -- by the people, of the people, & for the people.
What you might be suggesting is a subset of the people extra-constitutionally imposing their will. I don't know that this would be a precedent that would be good to set in any country.
If you feel the policies you mention should be part of US policy, the process for advancing them is very well documented.
Run for office, make the case, win, use the levers of government to make the changes you wish to see.
There is no duopoly in the US. It has been governed as a plutocracy for the last decade.
Who can afford to run for office? Follow the money. ThatтАЩs why the FB Twitters Googles AmazonтАЩs and MS of the world have so much influence. Even running for local office costs money and at least requires the support of people with whom you normally wouldnтАЩt even want to have a cup of coffee.
So privatized fire fighters, private policing, private health (oh wait, we mostly have that now), no public roads, no public parks, more pollution, less vaccines, forget GPS, etc...
But hey -- workers would have their basic needs met.. how?
By whom?
I didnтАЩt say no taxes, just that 100% doesnтАЩt make sense to me given the government is often irresponsible with our $, and in many cases that $ wonтАЩt find its way into the pockets of delivery drivers and warehouse workers, whereas health and retirement benefits could.
Currently reading many of your comments on the Summers piece, it seems you agree( to some degree).
How are they irresponsible? It might help me understand what you are getting out with specific examples.
when has it been the responsibility of government in the US to pay workers via taxes?
What retirement benefits come from taxes?
How are they irresponsible? Start with the 5000 pg relief bill and work you backwards. Defense spending is more a matter of opinion, but my opinion is it's irresponsible.
I never said it was the responsibility of the govt to pay workers via taxes, and I am not aware of any retirement benefits that come from taxes (maybe SS?)
We might be misunderstanding one another. I am saying I think Amazon and Bezos should pay taxes, but that I would like to see them pay their employees and provide benefits to them rather than just have Bezos pay "100% of whatever he makes over $5million" as taxes (or whatever the above comment said).
https://www.sentinelsource.com/news/economy/amazon-has-turned-a-middle-class-warehouse-career-into-a-mcjob/article_a3c5cd33-3099-5210-92e9-b0d35a9ee5e4.html
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/12/10/21005098/amazon-warehouse-workers-sacramento
How are either irresponsible? What makes you say so?
No, SS doesn't come out of taxes.
Where did you get your information on how much tax Bezos and/or Amazon pay?
Upon what basis would the US be able to mandate how much Amazon pays its employees? They already mandate a minimum wage. What do you propose beyond that?
YouтАЩre a lost cause, and likely a troll. This is a waste of my time.
You should always start a retort with "Of course" and then state an opinion as if it were a fact that only a moron doesn't know is true. That always hooks me, oops, I mean, the sheeple.
ItтАЩs not alchemy. None of these people made $$ from turning lead into gold (no longer applicable RE US currency). They made it from You/us. We buy so тАЬstuffтАЭMuch of which eventually end up at garage sales in the trash or buried in a closet somewhere. I like capitalism for the most part even though IтАЩm def not wealthy. I like people to be successful. I also like to see people give back. No one is legally reqтАЩd to do so. Morally - itтАЩs good for the soul, conscience and yes, even business. If youтАЩre going to take advantage of the generous (and f@тАШd up) tax codes it seems almost evil not to give back in a relatively substantial way. Bezos тАЬcharityтАЭ is IMO not that.
Jeff Bezos just gave the largest charitable donation in history - $10 billion
1) Why shouldn't they?
2) Pass those laws if you are that passionate about such a change
3) He needs exactly what anyone needs to live on. Many make more than that. Are all to have wealth capped at sustenance?
4) Anti-trust laws exist. Ask your rep why they aren't being used. Better yet, run for office.
5) Monopolies are not illegal. Using improper/illegal means to achieve or maintain monopoly is illegal.
6) His record on worker treatment is indeed poor. To make a case, establish standing, then take it to court.
Monopoles are illegal. "Take it to court?" What happens when financial criminals are taken to court? Nothing. How many bankers or rich corporation CEOs have our courts jailed? (I saw the Senate GROVEL at the feet of Jamie Diamond when he should have been grilled. Money is the god of the U.S.)
YouтАЩve been a good student of our Matt Taibbi ЁЯШБ
1) Monopolies are not illegal. Anti-competitive monopolization is illegal.
2) To which "financial criminals" do you refer? If they are not found guilty of crimes in court, in what way are they "financial criminals"?
3) It would be quite a project to document all the bankers convicted of crimes, however:
"There have been 59 bankers convicted of crimes, including two executives at NOVA Bank in Philadelphia who were convicted on Wednesday of fraud conspiracy related to TARP funds. An additional 19 bankers have been charged with crimes, with many awaiting trials. "
Isidore, Chris. тАЬ35 Bankers Were Sent to Prison for Financial Crisis Crimes.тАЭ CNNMoney, April 28, 2016. https://money.cnn.com/2016/04/28/news/companies/bankers-prison/index.html.
What evidence can you advance that supports your position that 'money is god'?
I misspoke. Yes, the US has been a plutocracy since its beginning. I donтАЩt see it changing anytime soon, not as long as money is god to the 1%. You cited an article noting the bankers who have gone to jail.
Also from the article you cited:
тАЬTop executives at the so-called "too big to fail" banks have avoided any criminal charges, even as their banks paid tens of billions of dollars in fines to settle charges of wrong doing leading up to the financial crisis.тАЭ
As for your definition of whatтАЩs illegal, the unfair business practices that create monopolies, have you listened to the testimonies of those victims of Bezos who, if they want to stay in business at all, must sell through Amazon. It is actually becoming difficult to NOT deal with Amazon, Bezos is so determined to become the one person who literally sells everything on earth. How much do you know about this man?
You wonder about money being the end all of the PTB? Try looking at the illegal wars and coups the US pulls off around the world. ItтАЩs all about money, power and control. The false flags for war, the five big makers of war machinery (which тАШneedтАЩ billions each year so they can throw away the last yearтАЩs stuff to, say, our police stations, and make тАШnew and improvedтАЩ stuff to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people in sovereign countries), the coups when any leader in any country wonтАЩt do the bidding of the US. And this is all our presidents and all our secretaries of state, because the DNC and RNC will NOT allow any candidate who opposes war and wants to help regular people, anywhere near the White House. I heard Obama say, apropos to nothing, тАЬVenezuela is an existential threat.тАЭ I realize then Venezuela was in for a US coup, which happened, but golly Maduro is back because the citizens there have seen how their lives improve with socialism and freedom.
I heard Mike Pompeo announce that the Venezuela election was a fraud before the election. BTW, as the Carter Center has said, тАЬVenezuela has the cleanest elections of any of the over 85 countries theyтАЩve observed. In this last election, 1500 observers from 34 countries observed and all said (even opposing opponents agree) the election was totally free of fraud. Venezuela citizens have the only fool-proof voting in the world.
You do realize we have the richest congress weтАЩve ever had? You do realize senators and representatives can be bought? You do realize the vast sums of money spent on elections, money spent because of the results the rich want from the congress people they put into office?
It boggles my mind that so many Americans believe what they read/hear in the NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX. If you want to be informed, be proactive and seek out reporters that canтАЩt be bought or threatened.
Please donтАЩt feed the troll. This is like trying to have honest open and civilized exchange with a critical SJW.
I get your passion and agree with most of your points but I would suggest informative useful exchanges with any number of engaging knowledgeable and civil commenters
What's "SJW"? What troll? "informative useful exchanges with any number of engaging knowledgeable and civil commenters"....I was doing that.
Nothing says informative useful exchange like opening a comment:
"Please don't feed the troll"
Tu quoque much?
The US is and always has been a constitutionally limited democratic representative republic. It is currently governed as a plutocracy, but has not always been.
Sustained assault on the 99% has been successful over the last 40 years in cementing control of monied interests over SCOTUS, the Congress, the White House, and both political parties. They also control ballot access through these entities -- there will be no voting our way out of it.
The only reason it matters if the 1% see money as god, is as a result of this successful transformation.
If top executives at financial entities successfully avoided criminal charges, upon what basis are you declaring them criminal? In any case, it would be an error to suggest that bankers don't go to prison. They do. All the time. In large numbers.
My definition of what is illegal is as irrelevant as yours. We two are not the arbiters of legality. The practices you refer to are governed by anti-trust law. It would be inaccurate to suggest all monopolies arise from illegal practices. Utter fiction.
You can't just delcare that money is at the end end all of the PTB. You would have to demonstrate that it is so. What is more likely to be true is that money is a motivator for some PTBs and not for others. Black and white thinking will not be a useful tool in resolving the issue.
Putin doesn't do what the US wants. Where is the coup? Melodrama is as useful as black and white thinking.
Lives in Venezuela might have been improved by socialism and freedom if they had ever tried it, but the socialist lip service coupled with internal corruption has made their lives unarguably worse. It certainly is true that the US has made it worse by fair means and foul, whenever it could.
What evidence can you advance that confirms your assertion that Venezuella's voting system is 'foolproof' and is the only voting system on the planet that is 'foolproof'? Extremist statements degrade your ethos and make you less credible, not more so.
Obviously, given the statements I have made throughout the thread, I am aware that the US is governed as a plutocracy, which encompasses all of your 'reveals' about senators, representatives, and pay for play.
How have you quantified what Americans believe, why they believe it, and that they are wrong in so doing?
All reporters can be bought or threatened. What you are struggling toward is improving your epistemological model. How can you know what you think you know is representative of reality.
Received wisdom from any source, whatever you think of their threat level or corruption level, is inferior to executing well on your own synthesis of knowledge.
Chui,
Please, no psycho-babble. IтАЩm not тАЬstrugglingтАЭ with anything. Venezuelan elections are foolproof; there can be no fraud. Please hear Margaret FlowersтАЩs description of the voting process with each voter in тАЬDecember 20, 2020: (Online) The Venezuelan Election, A Blow to U.S. Imperialism.тАЭ Every step of the voting process is monitored and cannot be finagled in any way. The sweeping election of Maduro was a slap to the U.S. Their recent coup attempt was a failure. The citizens of Venezuela had been brought out of poverty and into middle class and peaceful communities by the work of Hugo Chavez and the election was proof they know what is for their well-being. The sanctions the U.S. uses like road-rage all over the world when they donтАЩt get their way is abominable. The U.S. tries to pull a coup and when that fails, they sanction and when that fails, they create a false flag for war, all illegal. Please count the endless coups, usually using the CIA, and endless wars via false flags; you can probably name quite a number yourself. All our wars since WWII have been illegal by international law which doesnтАЩt seem to faze Americans. People came out in force to stop the Vietnam war, but where have all the anti-war marches in the streets gone? The U.S. is the worst country on earth, followed by Israel, and usually that tail wags the dog.
You claim, тАЬAll reporters can be bought or threatened.тАЭ No true. Not the people I read: Max Blumenthal, Chris Hedges, Sy Hersh, Matt Taibbi, John Pilger, Caitlin Johnstone, Ann Wright, Anya Parampil, Aaron Mate, Alan Macleod, Noam Chomsky, Julian Assange, Tony Kevin, Craig Murray, Ramzy Baroud, Margaret Flowers, Ray McGovern, Janice Kortkamp, Mark Taliano, Patrick Lawrence, Abby Martin, Media Benjamin, Greg Palast, Glenn Greenwald, George Galloway, Miko Peled, Naomi Klein and others. (BTW, read тАЬThe Shock DoctrineтАЭ if you want to understand the overall picture how the U.S. works. Most of these journalists have written for the NYT, and the other so-called sources of record, but at one point or another their work could no longer be accepted at those propaganda outputs, which no longer will print the truth. Those mainstream outlets have all gone bad, have you noticed? They are stenographers for the establishment. Nothing will change with Biden unless, somehow, he and Harris can be pushed to do the right thing. I wonтАЩt hold my breath.
I will leave you with this: тАЬRecognizing truth requires selflessness. You have to leave yourself out of it so you can find out the way things are in themselves, not the way they look to you or how you feel about them, or how you would like them to be.тАЭ ~ Harry G. Frankfurt. In other words, тАЬstep back,тАЭ which is always my philosophy.
I wonтАЩt be writing to you again. Rob
That you receive my writing as psychobabble does not establish it as psychobabble (whatever that is meant to mean).
1) If every step in the voting process is monitored, you have already failed to make your point. Voting privacy is intrinsic to free and fair elections.
2) The presence of the military at polling stations is voter intimidation. See point 1.
3) There was no international monitoring apart from an ecumenical group that monitored 3 hours a day only over Zoom.
4) Enumerating journalists does not in any way establish that they cannot be bought or threatened. Any of them could. How would you know?
5) I read The Shock Doctrine 13 years ago. What of it? How do you feel invoking a book supports your position?
6) Media consolidation and the corporatization of journalism is only decades old. Go read the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (that Biden voted for). He helped reduce the number of major media companies from around 50 in 1983 to 10 in 1996 and 6 in 2005. Glad you eventually noticed.
7) I will leave you with this: There is no truth. Just one's best guess at any given time. The pursuit of truth is a vanity exercise born from existential insecurity and low self-esteem. - Chui
In other words "If you don't start each speech or treatise with the phrase 'I could be wrong but...', you are already lost.
I will try to soldier on withotut you. Chui
CHUI,
HERE: Proof: Yes, you can see it here: (5) Venezuelan elections, a blow to US Imperialism - YouTube. Or just go to the UNAC web site at http://UNACpeace.org and you can find it on the home page.
It is more the worker abuse that is the cause for divesting from amazon.
"Why is it that in the 50's and 60's they only needed one income to live a dignified life? "
You really are clueless. The 50s and 60s [note the correct spelling] were tough for folks of average means, but they made it and, sadly, produced folks like you and other Progs. Seriously, do you do any research or do you just babble and pontificate. Folks struggled then. But they found a way and did not bitch about it, by pointing at others. They lived on less - my mom did not drive until she was 44 years old. Pulled my 2 bros. and I in a red wagon to the grocery, shopped, then loaded the bags and us into the wagon again and pulled it home. We were happy. My parents had one car until their youngest was off to college -- yes, they put 3 kids through college on my dad's low level pay . Of course, we did not think we were entitled to Caribbean vacations, baubles and trinkets. We did not order pizza to be delivered, let alone groceries. Presents were few, but we were freakin' happy. It was their struggle that made their lives "dignified" not their income. You can live on one income today, just manage your finances, manage how many kids you have, manage, especially, your expectations, etc. And learn what makes life "dignified". And stop whining. Especially about taxes paid by others. That is just so unseemly and jealous.
I didnтАЩt get out of bed till I was 27. I mostly survived on dandelions and kitten tails. It was hard but here I am.
Alas your calculations are not correct. 330 million is right for the US population, but dividing that into 13bn gives $39.39, not $40 million. You were off by a factor of a million.
George's calculations were wildly off, but tell me if this makes sense and is economically, politically and morally sustainable: Three men (Bezos, Buffett and Gates) have more net wealth than the bottom 50 percent of Americans (approximately 160 million people). You don't need a calculator.
I know whose swimming pool IтАЩd rather use haha
I don't need a calculator because even that math doesn't work.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/11/09/the-3-richest-americans-hold-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-of-country-study-finds/?sh=40b940a63cf8
Actually, Bezos made 13bn in ONE day, not EVERY day. Besides the math, that amount is insane for one person to "earn' in one day. His ex-wife said, Jeff could cure world hunger if he wanted.
Yeah, your "bad". Just another knee jerk response by another jerk.
..and there's another.
Ah, yes, letтАЩs forgive the math-idiot for posting something so clearly wrong it is stupidity only a Prog could go for. On another Taibbi piece a couple days ago a Prog posted that there were тАЬthousandsтАЭ of paralysis reactions to thePfizer vaccine.
So letтАЩs permit these buffoons go forward without calling them out.
This issue is one of comity, not arithmetic.
Because your original post was wrong - only a Prog would not understand that. Or a Prog would just believe it and repeat it (I've seen nearly identical posts about Bezos' wealth in other forums). It is the sort of post that creates false information and it gets spread, your "apology" notwithstanding. As I posted a bit later in the thread, someone posted on Taibbi the other day that there were "thousands" of paralysis adverse reactions to the vaccine. A lie. There is no editing on this board - not by posters nor by Taibbi. So replies accomplish the edit.
The message for you and others is if you are going to post a purported fact (rather than opinion) think before you hit "Post". And "my bad" is not an apology. It is a cavalier throwaway statement that you don't think you really did anything wrong. Suggesting that Bozos (yes, intentional) could give everyone $40 million is the sort of class envy and entrepreneurial jealousy that haunts so much of the Left. That is my opinion and I love to post that.
And, no, I am not a fan of Bozoz.
Explain "Prog."
It was an honest mistake that actually happens a lot. Again, watch this video:
https://youtu.be/6egeUxIEQnM
You know, it is perfectly fine to make a mistake, it is not perfectly fine to treat people like they are any more or less insignificant than you are. We are all here, we are all going to die, the least we can do is be kind to one another in the meantime.
I am not gonna die!!
If you insist on posting such wrongheaded nonsense with panache, and walk it back with тАЬeveryone makes mistakesтАЭ, youтАЩve learnt nothing where some genuine humility is called for.
I often make embarrassing math errors. ItтАЩs def not my strength. My suggestion: donтАЩt feed the negative here. ItтАЩs the same as trying to reason w a SJW and there are far better ways to spend precious time. RE: Bezos I admired him for taking a garage based book selling business and growing it to make books accessible to so many people.
Now I wish he had stopped there. As someone pointed out yes Amazon did save our asses this last year but consider: chicken or egg. Had the behemoth not existed we would have relied on local business for the things we NEED instead of feeding our addiction to excess- maybe neighbors would be a little more neighborly and help the housebound. Maybe citizens would have taken action against some of the more questionable approaches to the pandemic. Amazon and the others did contribute to division in more ways than one. Divide and conquer- not a new concept.
Exactly. Why the insults!
You're way off on your math. 13 billion/330 million = $40, not $40,000,000. It's still a hell of a lot of money though.
It's actually a little less than $40. This happens a lot:
https://youtu.be/6egeUxIEQnM
Wow. Fail.
$130 billion divided by 330 million = $393 each
You're off by six orders of magnitude, bro.
Why should he ?