Author Thomas Frank predicted the modern culture war, and he was right about Donald Trump, but don’t expect political leaders to pay attention to his new book about populism
Great article, except for one thing. If you honestly think the anti-lockdown movement is about "MAGA fanatics going maskless and dying of Covid-19 to own the libs" you need to get the hell out of your bubble. It's not about owning libs, it's about pushing back against the biggest top-down ordered upheaval in regular people's lives most of us have ever experienced: affecting most people far more than 9/11, the mortgage crisis, ISIS or the Iraq war. We were not just told to wear a mask at the grocery store and otherwise get on with our lives. Small businesses were forced to shut down and watch their money get vacuumed up by Amazon and the big box retailers. Schools, libraries, sports games, churches, all forcibly closed down. People have been told they are selfish murderers for wanting to visit friends, have been literally arrested for going out to walk their dog after testing positive, or arrested for breaking quarantine orders after traveling to another state regardless of whether they were infected. All this over a disease with a
.04% death rate and most of that in badly managed nursing homes... People have been told by their local government that singing in church is banned, then told by media asshats that they're really just mad because they're racists or worship wall street or are "dying" for a friggin haircut. Suicide rates have gone way up since lockdown started but yeah, let's pretend the anti-lock down protesters are just frivolously unconcerned about human life...and anyone who doesn't trust the corrupt Big Pharma apparatus that stands to make billions from mandated vaccines as opposed to hydroxychloroquine or herd immunity, is "anti science"... I have been to many Reopen America protests since this whole shit started. They attract mostly conservatives but also a good number of Bernie Dems like me, as well as Libertarians and people who don't much like any party. Biden wants a national mask mandate. From the point of view of most Americans wanting to have a normal life with school, church etc and not be under constant surveillance, Donald "kids in cages" Trump is actually the more pro-freedom candidate. Which is crazy, but that's where we are right now. A friend of mine is seriously considering just voting for Kanye West instead.
If it helps, I've been very critical of those who said it was okay to go out and protest for BLM but then also criticized anti-lockdown protesters. I do understand that the anti-lockdown protests for a lot of people are about re-opening businesses to put food on the table. And I'm against censoring material suggesting alternatives to lockdowns. But I don't get not wearing a mask as a political statement. I'm close to several doctors who treat this disease and... let's just say it scares the hell out of me and I would be happier if everyone was on the same page about it.
I think there's a lot more that warrants investigation and discussion on this front, though.
A lot of people protesting for the abolishing of police forces seemed to have no problem wielding state power against people who violated lockdowns. Police are good when they punish the right people, as long as they don't kill too many black men on camera?
I think there's also a really scary implicit part of this argument, too: What's the acceptable number of people who get sick and die, and who determines that? It's obviously nothing new that people get sick, and sometimes they die from that illness -- why is it earth-shattering if that number is 0.5%, or 2%, instead of .03%? These are all hypothetical numbers I'm pulling from thin air, of course. The numbers are always changing and people spend days arguing about it, but at the end of the day they're always drawing on arbitrary distinctions by saying, "Mortality rate from this disease is X% and that (warrants/does not warrant) this lockdown." If COVID-20 (or whatever is next) has a 0.03% mortality rate compared to 19's 0.05% mortality rate, should we do less of a lockdown, and who decides that? This feels like a modern, data-driven approach that has truly scary implications to me when used as precedent down the road. Should I get arrested if I go out in public with a common cold? People die from that too, but is that number palatable enough that nobody gives a shit? Is the "new normal", as will be propagated by media and people in power, to stay inside when I have a cold and deny myself fresh air (and a speedier, more pleasant recovery) because I'm a threat to public safety and I need to be mindful of my bacterial footprint (or whatever godawful name people want to give it)? What should the punishment be for disobeying such rules?
Likewise, if wearing a mask reduces your chance of getting/transmitting germs by 48% but wearing gloves AND a face covering made with material X reduces your chances by 73% (again, hypothetical numbers), should the people reducing their chances by 73% look down their nose at the 48%-ers and force them to wear gloves and only buy acceptable face coverings? Which % reduction of germ transmission/receipt is the correct one, and what's the punishment for not adhering to that? I think this ties in largely with the "scolds" you've mentioned before when talking about the new acceptable method of online activism, because in my experience there's no shortage of people in this world who will take opportunities presented like this to scold anybody else who doesn't comply with the latest arbitrary definition of Acceptability. Because these are all arbitrary distinctions being drawn about what's the acceptable rate of reduction, and what's an unacceptable rate of reduction. Why are people not allowed to choose the rate of reduction they're comfortable with? And who decides the punishment for people who don't meet that reduction?
Will people stop living like Howard Hughes when the right experts tell them it's ok to do so? It seems like permanent damage is being done to the collective psyche of humanity, which is scary enough to me, but if the public switches back to "regular" mode at the command of Experts and their state/local executive branch, isn't that also uniquely terrifying? It feels like Radiohead's "Fitter Happier" manifesting before my eyes as people adopt the prescribed way of life with minimal fuss. For people who reject this kind of control over our lives, there isn't a political party in sight that remotely cares about us.
So much is being changed in the name of safety and I see so many un-quantifiable, non-economic reasons to reject that, even if it means getting a disease that might kill you (or wreak long-term damage on your body). I know this disease has a slightly higher chance of killing me, but I'm ok with that risk because quality of life is more important to me than a long & safe life. I want to see live music again and be in the pit at a show, surrounded by other sweaty music lovers, even if that leads to me getting sick. There's no quantifying this, other than me telling people that sharing & reveling in music is the only reason I haven't offed myself yet. Are politicians & scientists actually able to deny me (and other people who feel like me) that basic human joy because the "moment" doesn't allow for it? Apparently they are, because I have no idea when I'll get to enjoy live music again here in Southern California, but am I just supposed to be ok with that? Do musicians now only perform at the convenience of state & local authorities, as advised by disease control experts?
As a bigger philosophical question, do people fear strangers and their germs when experts tell them to? Much of America's horrific cultural changes & atrocities came from fear of strangers -- do we really need more new reasons to be afraid of strangers? We're arming ourselves to protect against home invaders, an oppressive police force, terrorists, or undocumented immigrants. We're turning schools into fortresses with armed guards, metal detectors, and active shooter drills. This pandemic response feels like just the latest in fear-based modern developments that makes life just a little more miserable and undignified. I can't quantify these things, so do they not matter?
I'm truly sorry for the length here, but I think it hits an extremely broad range of concerns that cross political affiliations (and also exist outside any established political parties) and I think these kind of questions are things you touch on more than most anybody else I've read in journalism. Any time I've brought my point of view to a discussion, my friends (most of whom are mainstream Democrats) instantly align me with Trump and the MAGA crowd, of course. Or, they just call me a dumb hippie.
This comment perfectly captures what I'm feeling about the mainstream covid narrative, which itself seems to be the product of a relatively small clique of elites and so goes hand-in-hand with the original post.
I'm not talking about an actual conspiracy theory here but about the big-media/big-tech echo chamber that is seeded by, for example, New York "journalists" who have literally not left their tiny apartments since March.
Matthew says: "I know this disease has a slightly higher chance of killing me, but I'm ok with that risk because quality of life is more important to me than a long & safe life."
Somehow this attitude, which all of us share to some extent or we wouldn't bother getting up in the morning, has become unspeakably gauche in the last few months. And behaviors that, in February, would have rightly been seen as signs of mental illness, are now so normalized that anyone who questions them is vilified or dismissed as an anti-science crank.
I'm not talking so much about the simple precaution of wearing a mask, but about the layers and layers of incoherent covid security theater that we're all expected to play along with under the rubric of 'erring on the side of caution'. The mask is just a highly visible symbol of all of that.
The problem is not that Matthew decides he's ok with the risk - that's fine, it's that Matthew can make others sick and that if Matthew gets sick and has to be hospitalized a lot of people have to take care of him putting themselves at risk. His choice can potentially take away other people's choices. As Bernie said, not me - us. This is all about taking care of each other.
I think things truly got out of hand when people felt it was within their concern & rights to tell other people whether they can go outside and socialize or not. If that most basic act of humanity is deemed dangerous, for any amount of time (and we’re on month Five of it) and enough people go along with that, that’s absolutely insane to me. Same with feeling threatened because somebody’s standing within 6 feet of me and that increases the chance of infection by x% compared to when they’re standing within 7 feet of me. That’s not the kind of world I want to live in, even for a day, so why should I help perpetuate it?
In what part of the world do you live where you're still told you can't go out and socialize?
It seems this virus has spotlighted two very disturbing characteristics of our country: our government's inept and indifferent response to all but corporate interests, and the remarkable selfishness of our individuals citizens, who see the imposition of wearing a mask or cleaning one's hands more frequently or maintaining a certain basic distance from strangers as Gulag like, even as they have lived in a country whose government has been collecting their every electronic musing, with seemingly no concern about the latter.
I was infected by the virus and was sick for 16 days, but not severely enough, at least as far as breathing, to go to a hospital, and by self medicating and rest, seem fine today, although it is possible my concentration, which was starting to slip before I got sick, as I'm 73, has worsened somewhat. I do believe the fatality rate is lower than we're led to believe, since we've had insufficient testing to know the actual number infected, but the fact our death toll is so much higher than other countries, seems to spotlight a basic immature and selfish outlook that, perhaps to our not being subjected to large scale calamities that so many other countries have had in the past, we lack the ability to self deny for even a limited time. And no, five months, even when the F is capitalized, is not a long period of time.
Right now, we do not know enough about the virus and especially it's long term effects to make a judgment on the proper response, but common sense says taking precautions and considering how our actions impact others seems not too much to ask.
If we can justify our actions after 9-11, when less than 3,000 people were killed, that caused us to invade countries that had nothing to do with it, killing and displacing millions and spending $7 trillion in the process, it seems the measures we've taken due to the virus(and I don't count the government's poor priorities and fumbling response as part of that) are not out of line.
At some point, a final decision will have to be made, weighing the deaths from the virus versus the social/economic costs, but that time is too soon, in my view.
Matthew you don't want to join the herd and neither do I, but I think you are taking your self-centered attitude to an unworkable extreme. I mean if you just felt like shit if you couldn't go out and kill someone every few weeks, do you think the world should take pity on you and let you go ahead with it?
I guess to me I think If we had just right at the start taken the view that - ok, this isn't what we want but we're in this together and the way to kill this virus is to deny it hosts so lets just go 100% all in and wear the masks, stay home and get it over with. We might be where other countries are - mostly open and back to at least close to normal. Instead we sort of closed just enough to trash the economy meanwhile doing nothing to prepare a plan for reopening, testing or dealing with outbreaks so we're in a no man's land where we have a mess of approaches - more and more deaths, mass unemployment, people at risk of losing their homes and a virus running rampant. You can't do anything with one foot out the door - that's no way to succeed at anything. The ridiculous thing to me is that this is temporary. We just have to make the best of the situation we're given and then we move on. The main thing to remember is that the virus is setting the rules. No point to arguing with a virus.
Driving a car puts others potentially at risk. Do you have and use a car? Lockdowns hurt people too. Depending on your situation, you may not relate to that, but I need these lockdowns to end--and much sooner than waiting for a vaccine to be broadly administered.
Lots of things we do put others at risk but it's a trade off. I do have a car and drive it as little as I can get away with. I do understand the damage done by lockdowns - Growing up my family had a small business - We would have lost everything had we lost that business so I completely empathize with small businesses. If you read all my comments, my point is we had the lockdown which was completely wasted because unlike other countries, we did not get the numbers of infected down to a low enough level before we started re-opening. The government did not use the time of the lockdown to procure and provide PPE or testing materials. We did not use the time to come up with a national plan for reopening. We did not use the time to come up with a plan for schools. The government did not use its vast resources to keep workers, businesses and local governments afloat in any clear and sustainable way. What we did do is turn the lockdowns into yet another basis for fighting among ourselves. The virus doesn't care. We have lost over 150,000 people to this thing and it's just getting started. As I've said repeatedly, if wearing a mask, socially distancing and washing our hands keeps people safe and alive- why not? You're right in that we can't just sit and wait for a vaccine that may never come but we also can't just throw up our hands and do nothing.
Those who are afraid should take whatever measures they wish. I think there's very little chance of contracting the virus if one wears a mask, gloves, uses hand sanitizer, keeps distant and avoids crowds. But I'm not afraid, so let me live a normal life. I shouldn't have to give up what makes life worth living because of someone else's fear.
It's not a matter of fear and it should be obvious all the above precautions you mention are only going to work as a means to stop the virus long term if everyone does them. It's called working together and caring about each other enough to temporarily curtail some activities. I think people way over think this - you take the precautions then basically go about your life taking other detours when necessary. it's not that hard. Accepting the virus is the same as accepting reality.
Whose infecting who at this point? Vaccines did not accomplish herd immunity, as was initially promised during lockdowns, nor are they any more permanent or effective in immunity as was media-sold. PCR tests create scary positive “cases” w/o a shred of evidence they can select out C-19 or any current infection therefrom.
Taibbi personally declared his tied-to-the-intended narrative: FEAR. Such fear affects all animals alike: it narrows vision, shunts vital functions into unhealthy patterns, and causes snapping and snarling at targeted enemies, like unvaxxed. How sanctimonious are our politically elected who have been rewarded by exemptions from product that has no list of ingredients and no long term known consequences.
You are not a dumb hippie. You are clear-headed and thoughtful. I've read your comment several times today and it really hits home for me. I keep saying to my friends "We're holding onto life at the expense of living". This virus isn't going to kill me. I might kill myself if this shit continues. Not trying to be dramatic, but when all pleasure is drained from life, what reason is there to live?
I hear ya. I’d normally go to a coffee shop after work twice a week for their open mic nights. Sometimes I’d play but most of the time it was just to listen to a ton of random people from all over and, good or bad, it always inspired me and motivated me when work was nothing but a drag. Now the best I can hope for is that they won’t close down before they get to start back up again, which is god-knows-when. Work and life in general were getting too overwhelming for me before I started going to that place regularly, and it really did save me from complete despair. I don’t have an encouraging way to end this comment other than to reciprocate your feelings and hope you do alright :)
Now that the state governments have published their arbitrary and ever changing COVID edicts for 5 months now it is beginning to sink in that they will never end. These unscientific edicts that seemed comical and annoying at first (unless you are an enemy of the state small business owner), become the death knell for our culture and civilization as they extend indefinitely. Regardless of whether you believe the consipracy theories regarding pedophiles in Washington and Hollywood running our government and media, the distrust of both has finally broken the barrier between the economically uber-disadvantaged left and right. Most will accept any outlandish rumor over the government and MSM lies.
More of my liberal friends are questioning things they should have been questioning for years (USA economic solvency and Big Pharma ownership of Medicare for all) ) but instead of becoming more charitable to fellow disenfranchised plodders like themselves they recede into the hate of everyone and anything MAGA as if Trump's defeat will make this COVID nightmare dissipate instantly. Reluctantly, I will vote for Kanye or some other 3rd party hopeless, only because it will make the mentally and emotionally ill TDS friends and family feel better for a few days. They need it. And when President Sleepy Joe wins he will have a half life of 2 or 3 weeks before the FBI, CIA, BLM, Antifa, and CNN will turn on the hate in the hope that Kamala will benefit before the swearing in. God help her from there!I will be praying!
I was dead serious. Notice how Joe is withdrawing from all debates? He has already agreed to resign within a year of his election in favor of his VP. He is unable to speak or function acceptably. In addition, when his dementia and past backing of the 3 strikes laws is evident to all, his unacceptability to the left will cancel him. Not to mention his singlehanded success in stripping students of all loan bankruptcy protections.He is a placeholder for the dem donors who will
call their chips as soon as the VP seems serviceable.
Matthew, I think you raise several interesting points.
Regarding differentiation between this disease and other common diseases (i.e., seasonal flu), one huge differentiator is that our hosptial system has, over time, come into equilibrium with normal annual cycles of "common" disease. The occurance of illnesses requiring hospitalization are likely consistent and predictable, save natural or manmade acute disasters (9/11). The real issue with COVID is that, if left unchecked, we will have a HUGE influx of hospitalizations that quickly overrun our hospital capacity, as was the case in NYC and Italy. Living in a first world country, we should not knowingly embark on a mad adventure that will lead to infirmed individuals dying on sidewalks outside of the hospital. Keeping all of this in mind, I can easily rationalize a SHIFT in our behaviors to prevent this from happening. Examples include the use of masks, outdoor seating at restaurants, no large indoor gatherings. These are frankly not big inconveniences for MOST of the population. At the same time, the government needs to have a fucking plan on how to accomodate rapid testing responses. Other modern, non-authoritarian countries have done it (Germany comes to mind).
I don't agree with not wearing a mask as a political statement that says "stick it to them". But not wearing a mask because one's opinion is along the lines that we should be like Sweden is entirely valid. Sweden's cases and deaths just approached zero, and I no longer believe that there is any possible outcome for the United States than "burn-through". Our prevention methods aren't sufficient to get Ro below 1. Simply not going to happen. New York has low spread because everyone in the groups that regularly intermingle got exposed already. California, Texas, etc will end up in the same place over a longer period of time. The question is does it take 2 months, and give Trump a shot at re-election, or 6 months?
1. As a first gen immigrat, I disagree on mask-less but I respect their right. Somehow this respect for individual choices is missing when it comes to masks but not abortion. (I'm pro choice as long as it's not late term so I think I'm consistent here.)
2. Another idea for you is to write on big tech censorship. The latest debate on HCQ is a great example. Youtube and FB delete any videos that support HCQ+zinc. To shut down a discussion in this fashion is insanity.
On Point 2: I agree that censorship is not a good plan. I can see it going down many dark roads - we have a lot to figure out here. As for this concept of a "discussion", I think that is off the mark. We are talking about medical sciences - discussions about medical science should be had in the medical community, not on Youtube. Untrained people should not be discussing this topic as if their opinions have any merit. Even most doctors are irrelevant to the discussion because they don't understand the biochemistry like researchers do. I am in a science field myself and understand how controversial certain topics can be, and how an outside observer may be misled by certain "expert" individuals. There are always experts whose opinions diverge from the "scientific consensus" but lay people should not really just pick and choose which scientist they listen to - it's too complicated for that. As an example, think about the tobacco lobby. They would have doctors testify in court that cigarettes weren't unhealthy. Those doctors were technically "experts, right? So how do you decide?
"I'm close to several doctors who treat this disease and... let's just say it scares the hell out of me".
How about no, let's not just say that. That's straight out of the big-media playbook that has left so many people oscillating helplessly between confusion, panic, and outrage throughout these bizarre 5 months:
Step 1: Tell a scary-sounding but utterly vague and question-begging anecdote
Step 2: Advise all (at least implicitly) to move on because there's nothing to see here, the experts have this figured out, and by the way did you hear that Europe already beat the virus you stupid mag-tard?
Step 3: Throw in a file photo of a body bag or someone wearing a hazmat suit or preferably both
To be fair you stopped at step 1, but to hell with the entire playbook. How about let's actually dig into the data, give serious hearings to contrarian experts like Levitt at Stanford and Gupta at Oxford, investigate the death counts, and try to understand what on earth is going on with this unprecedented world-wide freakout that has paved the way for a massive power and money grab by those who were already extraordinarily powerful and wealthy.
How anyone is not scared shitless of this disease is beyond me. Maybe they just haven't known anyone that died from it? My wife had a 49 year old friend who died of it and then my friend's elderly mom died of it. The reports coming out are that the disease can damage a variety of organs and in some cases leave even young healthy people debilitated, possibly permanently. There is so much unknown around the disease, but just the fact that 157k people, at last count, across the whole country have died from it and it has spread like wildfire should make people extremely cautious.
a) The outlook for a vaccine that is more than 50% effective is not great, at least in the near and midterm and maybe the long term
b) I have higher hopes for reliable treatments but my hopes would be higher if it were not so damn political
c) At some point we are going to have to get back to something like normal. We cannot isolate children and teens forever. Online learning may work for college kids but K-12? Got a 12 yr old, let me tell you, he is missing out on the most important part of his education or at least it is seriously degraded.
We cannot print money forever, at least not the way we have and I just cannot see Wall Street and the politicians they control agreeing to go full on MMT and let the Treasury just print it. So, people are going to need to work. Even old people like me need to play or go insane.
Humans have managed to live with all kinds of highly contagious and deadly diseases from Diptheria to Plague for millennia. We have been fortunate to live through a golden age. It might be over. It probably IS over. Never mind that more and more of our antibiotics are no longer effective.
I have a sick feeling that we are once again heading into a time where we are going to have to live with horrible, communicable diseases and this is just the first.
As awful as it sounds, we may just have to get on with life, mitigate what we can and pray to God we and those we care about are lucky.
There are moments I wonder if God/Fate/Mother nature are just saying we have overpopulated and it is time to thin the herd.
This is one reason that I think cities are dead. One reason that people used to move out of the cities was to avoid exposure to plagues and diseases that were exacerbated by close contact. I think back as far as the Romans and the wealthy fleeing the city to their villas.
Just an anecdote..but..
I live south and west of DC about an hour, right on the border between Northern, densely populated, VA and central, rural VA. My 3 county health region has had a total of 580 cases and 8 deaths. You go north about 30 minutes to Fairfax and the are over 16,000 cases and something like 900 deaths. And, to be perfectly honest, most of my area has been not particularly good at the mask wearing and the social distancing. Not completely blown it off, but much more casual about it than closer in to the city.
I agree that pinning our hopes on a vaccine is a losing proposition. We can't stop everything forever.
A big problem is that our healthcare system is terrible. You can't tie healthcare to employment and keep a pandemic in check. You can't rely on states to have money available to suddenly come up with emergency supplies to combat something like this. The response at the federal level has to address the problem directly and coordinate the response. The borders between states are porous, there is no provision for keeping movement in check. When it comes to handling a pandemic the country has to be considered as one entity.
Yes, urban areas will be more prone to spread of the virus, but there is no place in this country that doesn't contact an urban area in some fashion at some point. If people were willing to wear masks everywhere it's likely that rural areas could be open by now.
The main problem with letting the chips fall where they may is that you will have bodies piling up in the streets by the time it is all over. People are all fine about risking their lives to the virus until they get sick, at which point they suddenly don't want to die and tie up hospital beds. We have an inadequate supply of both healthcare providers and facilities to handle this.
People keep pointing to Sweden as the way out, but Sweden has had over 5700 deaths compared to Norway, Denmark and Finland with a total of 1200 for all of them and Sweden's economy is still contracting by 6%. So, what's the advantage in letting people die?
Even if we assume a case fatality rate of .5% that's 1,640,000 dead here and if we don't flatten the curve that will happen extremely rapidly. The federal government right now is not directing the response appropriately in any way at all and Trump's psychotic Twitter rants don't help.
I agree regarding the tying of healthcare to employment.
The honest to God truth about this is just messy. Yes, Trump has not been helpful but there was never much he could do in any case. The fact is that it is up to the states to set shutdown practices. The CDC has not been up to this for at least ten years. (I worked there for a year) They have had so much mission creep that they have almost forgotten what their original reason for existing is. Trump did not offshore all of our PPE production or the production of 90% of our critical medicines. That started 20 yrs ago and has been nothing but encouraged by industry and lobbyists and so politicians because they though it would drive prices down. Same with durable medical equipment like ventilators. Those things could not change with the flip of a switch. Crony capitalism killed the economy. Ironic.
Trump did not tell the Chinese to lie and coverup and neither did he convince the WHO to tow the line. Remember, it was the WHO that believed the Chinese when they said that person to person transmission was highly unlikely. It was the Chinese that imprisoned doctors that spoke out and tried to warn people. Fauci went along. Trump did not control that.
Apart from the bully pulpet there really was nothing he could do directly. Even activating the defense production act was questionably legal but he did it.
No, this mess is systemic and has been building for decades.
Has Trump been helpful? Not particularly, but being an ass does not make him responsible for a lack of national preparedness at the state, local level and in private industry. Heck, even at the national level the CDC, NIH and Congress had roles to play. Hell, Nancy Pelosi was calling for people to come out to Chinese New Year at the same time Trump and Fauci were thinking this was not gonna be a risk. I cannot think of one state, local or national politician or one leader in industry that was screaming about our lack of preparedness.
This is a NATIONAL fuck up not just Trump's. Were you voting on pandemic preparedness issues? I was not. Heck, I had no idea that we could not produce PPE or drugs until this started and I would bet that 99% of the population and politicians were in the same boat.
My point is that the chips ARE going to fall where they may regardless of what we do. This is NOT very likely to get a whole lot better, a vaccine is not going to be a silver bullet even if we get one. Our best hope is that we develop accurate tests that are quick and that we develop therapies that are effective. Then, we get on with things knowing that some or even most of us are going to get this at some point. It is not going away so we can try to hide in our homes and hope or we can get up, accept the risks and go on living.
The voters cannot be expected to micromanage our Public Health preparedness. We have a right to expect that our leaders will install competent managers where they are needed. So the buck stops with sticky fingered Obama at least as much as Trump, and behind that lies the failure of our political/economic system. Something is fucking rotten in the State of America.
I agree that we can't blame ALL of this on Trump and that our outsourcing of production to China is bipartisan fuckery of the highest order, but he definitely exacerbated a bad situation and I think you're giving him a pass on a lot of things.
He ignored warning signs for months and increasing numbers of infected both abroad and here in the USA claiming that it would all blow over. In January when the WHO was actually saying there was a high global health risk and we had cases rising in Washington state he was claiming there were no worries about a pandemic.
In early March he downplayed the lack of testing, claiming at various times that, "Anyone that wants a test can get a test." He kept tweeting blaming the Democrats and the media for inflaming the situation saying it was all under control and that there was nothing to worry about. Then on March 17 he held a press conference saying he knew all along it was a pandemic.
Then as states shut down in March Trump basically decides we should open back up by April and starts tweeting about this all the time. Suddenly by the end of April he is advocating for opening everything back up to get the economy going again and a bunch of southern governors decide to throw in with that and we get ourselves another big surge of infected.
At one of his coronavirus briefings in April he suggested off the cuff that ingesting or injecting disinfectant were interesting possibilities for combating the infection.
He continues to point to the number of infections being tied to the amount of testing and that if we didn't do as much testing we wouldn't have as many infections, which is absolute stupidity.
There are so many stories out there about the Trump administrations mess ups on acquiring PPE. The latest is the Jared Kushner dream team one. It took Trump until July to actually recommend wearing a mask and before that he publicly downplayed the risk of not wearing one and both he and Pence were never seen wearing them even when they were visiting locations that required them.
And yes there were many Governors that were looking for a national plan and complaining about preparedness as the virus started accelerating. When they found they were on their own many of them were scrambling to acquire PPE and finding themselves battling other states and the feds for those resources. It's a true clusterfuck and while our system sucks and we were not prepared a lot of the problems with the response falls at the feet of the Trump administration.
I hear Thanatos speaking in your voice. I think you want to die and want us to come with you. I think you should go right ahead, but don't expect us to come with you. We are busy living. Go about your business.
Yep. Most people don't know anyone who has died from this virus. Because that is not a common reaction. The vast majority of people who get this only experience mild symptoms. Just as a contrast: I know four people who tested positive for this. Two showed no symptoms. One had cold-like symptoms. One had flu-like symptoms.
I'm sorry for your loss, but it's just not common for most people.
I know 7 people who got it. One died -- he was already in assisted living for medical conditions -- and the other 6 were only briefly sick and recovered fully. This isn't ebola.
Matt, while we've got you here, there's an issue I'd be grateful to see you address head on:
Your reporting on the Russia collusion hoax shows that Dems, media, and various senior federal law enforcement and intelligence officials attempted a coup. Some may have been deluded or reckless for a while, but others certainly intended to fabricate a story to oust a duly elected president, and they kept at it long after any conceivable factual basis for the hoax was refuted. There's more evidence of that emerging every day.
I know you find Trump gross, and I get why. But do you support having the coup plotters take control of the executive branch again? Not just the same party, but in many instances the very same people?
You're a great writer, you're a clear thinker, and you've obviously got some cojones. Can you take on this question? Thank you.
The plotters are still at it. NYTimes manufactured evidence that the Russians are paying the Taliban a bounty for American scalps, and they are demanding to know why Trump lets his friend Putin get away with it.
Read consortiumnews. The allegations come from Afghan Intelligence who will cause people to tell them what they want to hear. They want to motivate the US to avoid a deal with the Taliban. There is no need to pay he Taliban a bounty. Killing Americans is their biggest joy. Also other reasons.
It was an oversimplification to say Times made it up. Afghan Intelligence made it up. Then it was cherry picked by people in US Intelligence who liked it and fed it to NYTimes who played it up. The general intent of all parties was to avoid US withdrawal from Agstan.
Just a side note but if you haven't caught the "great mask debate" clip making the rounds you're missing out on on a pretty good chuckle. I live in NorCal and masks have been mandated from early on. I had a set of tires put on at a Costco recently and spent an hour sitting around outside watching hundreds of people of all ilks come and go. What I saw were people WITH all manner of "masks" including many that were really borderline like bandanas and scarfs etc. Lots of them didn't cover noses or were pulled down when people spoke with each other or removed the second they exited the store. We've had a spike here like in other states and maybe it has to do with this lax mask wearing behavior. One thing I'm certain of..it's not due to political defiance by Trump supporting rubes. At least not here anyways
Our county recently went under a mask mandate, urged by our mayor, the Hon. Leirion Gaylor Baird, who has a degree from Oxford and worked in the Yale College Deans Office. Our Gov. Pete 'Dimestore Lex Luthor' Ricketts twists in the wind because he's an idiot who got political advice once from Scott Walker. ... As for me, I expect to be wearing a mask this time next year too.
I know this is an old post and I'm merely providing 'hindsight on 2020' ( :-D ) but this is conclusive evidence that many of the criticisms given back then in regards to things like mask use were completely valid and in some circumstances more accurate than the message we were getting from even medical institutions. I know you were critical of protesters being given "a free pass" but the letter signed by 1500 "medical experts" (even though a significant number were simply students in a medical program) stating that "racism was deadlier than COVID and therefor justified whatever actions necessary" caused me to lose any remaining faith in those institutions. I've long considered myself a man of science, but when the very people who science is meant to be the foundation upon which their institution is built upon discard it in favor of activism, it's not hard to see why something that typically would be seen as an acceptable practice with little to no opposition instead became a position of defiance and a demand for a return to actual scientific principles. The harder they pushed them, the more suspicious I became personally; if they truly provided the effect they purported they did, then there would be 0 need for the mask wearing propaganda we experienced over the last year. If they worked, the data would clearly show they worked and most people would gladly seek them out. But instead we got relentless bombardment of hypothesis presented as established fact which led to it being a symbol of ones virtue more than any sort of "Bulwark against Contagion."
We’re fighting a global pandemic. If the citizens of the world are going to win, it will take all of us to make the necessary sacrifices to keep ourselves and our neighbors safe. I think of the sacrifices members of my family, everyone’s families made during WW II. Millions of young Americans sent far away from home to fight a global enemy. More than 400,000 never returned. Those who did return came back with the horrible memories of war that they dealt with for their entire lives. Citizens who stayed home made all the necessary sacrifices to support the war effort. Wearing a mask, maintaining a reasonable social distance...doing the necessary things the scientists advocate to keep us all safe doesn’t seem to be that outrageous.
This feels like a Walter Sobchak "this guy fucking walks" moment.
Yes the media lies, yes the experts are incompetent and inconsistent, yes the elites will try to use any flimsy basis to exert power over us wherever they can...but all that is independent of the virus. Plagues happen, and they have their own agenda.
The expert's losing streak is all the more reason to keep an extra eyeball on this virus and take precautions.
The media also tells the truth. You gotta be jussmartenuf to separate the pepper from the fly shit. This administration lies so much the truth is not expected from them and rarely arrives undistorted.
From the distant perspective of 2024, this comment (and replies) about masking and the danger of Covid illustrates how easy it was to panic the public back then.
When an M.I.T. professor/employee , what have you, makes a video of himself challenging Dr. Fauci to a debate about masks, on his own dime, it’s clear that folks aren’t on the same page. I’ve been masking from the start. People don’t like living in fear. The fearmongering in the media is too much.
Absolutely agree that the anti lock-down crowd has many motivations, with the glue being disgust with the media and political class misrepresentations of, for lack of a better phrase, "The Science". I remember when it was all about "flattening the curve", and people were on board because hey, who knows how bad this can really get? When the data showed that it was only the NYC /Northeast area that truly needed triage, but all residents everywhere needed drastic lockdowns "because in two weeks this will be you!", well many in the hinterlands saw exactly the same gaslighting that spawned "Trump is Putin's cock holster".
When I got pissed off? March 12 - there were Covid 6 diagnosed in Ohio but our top health officials told us there were 100,000 that already had the virus. On March 12. Ridiculous and that clear idiocy triggers the "I need to background check every assertion these "professionals" make. Anyone paying attention has witnessed an absolute credibility train wreck from our public health overlords.
It is just horrifying that entire communities and businesses are being obliterated in response to a pandemic that is pushed by people who clearly only follow convenient storylines and bury other viewpoints.
To be fair, this is all still so new and the science is so all over the place and really just getting started that you expect some variations, some disagreements.
What bothers me is that you have the media, pundits and politicians taking science out of context or taking science that the scientists have hedged and turning them into absolute truths. Then they end up contradicting themselves later.
Worse, you sense that a lot of the misuse or misreporting of the science is intentional to push a narrative that is more political than in the interest of society.
That is true. The Liberal Democrats are livid about the anti-science Trumpist thugs but the scientists know that they don't know that much. The people who pretend to know are the Public Health spokespeople whose job is to pretend to know.
Nah. My take is that the refusal to wear masks is mostly about the same solipsistic denial that Larry Kramer faced from the unbridled hedonists of the gay party crowd in the early days of the AIDS epidemic. Denial and rationalizations galore, "supported" by factoids, folklore and superstitions. And in this case, fake statistics like the one you quoted: ".04% death rate" for covid-19? If only. https://covidusa.net/
The Virus is No Fun. It's a buzzkill. A wet blanket. The virus demands serious checks on the carefree existence that most Americans view as their prerogative, and who wants that? Nobody.
Can't we just not care about it? No.
I don't like this situation, either. But I'm not going to delude myself about its reality. My family is determined to ride this epidemic out safely, in spite of the people who are still literally throwing caution to the wind.
I don't know what it will take for the reckless to learn their lesson about this. But they're gambling more than they can stand to lose, and some of them are bound to find that out in ways that are close up and personal.
I'm also noticing a lot of people who are unclear on the concept of indirect consequences- 2nd order, 3rd order, etc. effects. So unfortunately, even some of the people who are acting right and taking precautions are likely to suffer from the heedless behavior of others.
Having to wear a mask when indoors or in close proximity to other people is a 1st World "Problem." SARS-Cov-2 is a Real World Problem.
A .04% death rate is 400 per million. The US death rate already exceeds that figure, and no one is suggesting everyone in the US has been infected. The death rate is probably around .5%, maybe a little higher or lower depending on circumstances. Why make up a demonstrably false figure?
It has run at 0.26% in the latest count, compared with over 1.00% about 10 weeks ago. There will be no definite statistics until we can see how many survive a round 2 or round 3.
There is definitely a correlation between the use of high-quality masks (where possible) and the severity/mortality of infection.
I don't get it - Why not just wear the mask? It's such a small ask. If it helps then good. If it doesn't then no harm done. And as far as social distancing, it just makes sense - the virus dies out without hosts. So you don't get to do exactly what you want for awhile - just deal with it. Think of the healthcare workers and other essential workers who have to be out in public. The least the rest of us can do is try to control the spread. The main issue has been the lack of economic support for small businesses and local governments. That's on Donald "pro-freedom" Trump. What good is freedom without life?
I will answer your question. First, I do wear a mask in some situations, like in a grocery store. I do it not because I think it is smart policy but not to offend my neighbors.
The response to Covid19 is obviously going to kill more people than the disease itself. The UN is predicting millions in danger of starvation due to the contraction of the global economy. Untold numbers have missed normal medical procedures, and have died or will die as a result. Tourist centers and small business are being devastated. Our kids, if they go to school at all, are to be constantly reminded that something deadly is in the air and if they are nor careful they may kill Granny. All in the name of "health." Meanwhile, the government flushes away trillions and trillions of dollars, sums so large that we cannot comprehend.
The benefits of public mask wearing are unproven. As recently as May specialists writing in the New England Journal of Medicine said that mask wearing in public probably provided no benefit. Today I find people waking in the woods or driving alone in their cars wearing masks. These are signs of public hysteria, not prudent health measures.
The media-induced Covid19 is doing infinitely more harm than the disease and public mask wearing - which is getting more common where I live as the disease ebbs - is a constant suggestion that we all might catch a deadly disease at any moment.
Herd immunity is how we get past this disease, like most other diseases, the sooner the better. If masks turn out to be effective, they merely postpone that process and allow successive crops of the sick and elderly to die of the disease.
I also wear a mask in stores - not because I care what the neighbors think but because it makes sense as a universal way to protect one another. I'm 99.9% sure I don't have it but I realize that if everyone who feels the same doesn't follow the precautions then it's not going to work so I wear the mask and stay put as much as possible. I do not wear a mask in the woods - just bug spray. On the further positive side, I've learned I'm pretty good at making masks.
Deaths from the side effects of the shutdowns are government / societal choices not inevitable consequences. You can open everything back up and most thinking people are still not going to go out because they logically reach the conclusion that it's not safe. To repair the economy, we have to deal with the virus in a coherent way. In the meantime, put money in people's pockets so they can spend at those small businesses, distribute food to all in need, zero out all rents and mortgages and maybe all debt - I'm no economist so I'm not sure about how this might work but we've thrown trillions and trillions of dollars into wars so I'm very confident in our government's ability to spend. It seems like what's standing in the way of economic relief for people is money so maybe it's time to redefine it. In other words, we're not lacking in things - we're lacking in the ability to pay for things. As for doctor visits, my husband has gone to the doctor twice during this time and I've gone to the dentist - perfectly safe.
As for children, this is not a time for fear of killing granny. It is a time to learn about sacrificing your own desires for the good of all and also a good time for learning about viruses, diseases and history. It may not be what they're used to but that doesn't have to be a total negative. I always taught my kids there's not such thing as being bored and I still believe that. What we have to be sure is that we have support for families who are suffering financially.
And finally , herd immunity. I'm not sure of the numbers, but isn't it like 1.5% or so of Americans have been infected? And I'm not sure what the percentage is worldwide but for herd immunity we need like 60-70%. If we've reached 1.5% in about 6 months, then I would say we have years to go to reach that 60-70% naturally. And in the meantime, we have to be sure not to overwhelm the healthcare system which circles us back to masks, social distancing and hand washing. In my opinion, we should never become complacent or indifferent about "crops" of people dying however they might be categorized.
What's the practical alternative to herd immunity though? Wait indefinitely for a vaccine? Here again, there are reputable, serious experts (Michael Levitt at Stanford; the people at the Oxford Center for Evidence-Based Medicine) who think (a) that effective herd immunity from covid occurs at *far* lower of an infection percentage than 60-70% -- they think it's more like 15-20% in practice -- and (b) that early signs suggest that this has already happened in places like New York City and Sweden. (to my understanding herd immunity is local, not global).
These folks' opinions don't get much air time, though, because they run counter to the Google-approved narrative that "if we all just comply perfectly with this week's Virus Control Guidance as explained by a half-educated, panicked millennial in the New York Times, everything will eventually be fine at some indefinite point in the future, and please pay no attention to the collateral damage".
What is the road to herd immunity and what is the collateral damage on that road? I'm trying to think of different diseases and have we ever achieved herd immunity naturally or have we always reached this via a vaccine or preventative measures? And, can you really have sustainable local immunity without mandating no travel?
I think everything should be open for discussion and investigation. Whatever we do though has to take into account the capacity of our healthcare system to deal with those who become seriously ill and that's the point of measures to slow the spread. You don't have to panic but neither do you want to go out of your way to catch an unpredictable disease. My main frustration is that we seem to have no coherent plan so we've ended up with the worst of all worlds - a disease run rampant and an imploding economy.
I think you might be conflating herd immunity with eradication. My understanding of herd immunity is that a local 'herd' can get to the point where enough people in it are immune to a virus that it can no longer spread quickly through that herd.
This doesn't mean that no one in the herd will ever get sick (i.e., eradication), but that the herd as a whole will be epidemic-resistant until there is a substantial and stable change in its overall immunity profile. Casual travel doesn't seem likely to affect that, but maybe that depends on where the herd lives.
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Just like when I insist that my Second Amendment rights not be infringed upon, I am really asserting my right to shoot other people.
The nearest analogy would be taking your Second Amendment rights to mean that you can shoot at random in any environment. There are actually people like that. Several years ago some dumb boy got hold of a loaded .45 pistol and fired it at random in a crowded New York City neighborhood, and unintentionally killed a small child, which caused something of a local scandal and outcry. But you know how liberals are.
They don't deliberately infect other people (as far as I know); they just don't care, because they are 'free', which has the same result. I don't see anything dishonest about that statement; indeed, the conclusion seems obvious. As for the belief that one is free of connection to other people and its consequences, I think it's a kind of infantile delusion and it's strange to see it elevated to the level of ideology.
Thank you so much. I don't know where I stand in the political world right now ... used to consider myself "liberal" but I thought liberal meant live and let live, anti-war, pro equality. Now it seems to mean exactly the opposite.
People who don’t know math, know nothing about epidemiology and medicine come out of their holes and voice strong opinions. Studies from various countries show that with the current policies around 5% of people got infected. That means that in the USA the mortality rate is about 1%. Extrapolating, to achieve herd immunity even if it’s possible we would face 3 m dead. I know nothing about hydroxychloroquine and I suspect you do neither.
The fatality rate is closer to 4% which is significantly higher than the flu, which is .005% Who was arrested for not wearing a mask? Where? When? Wearing a mask is not about you -- it's about others. Do you think that virus was transported to nursing homes by magic? Someone caught the virus singing in church and then passed to the man who delivers adult diapers who passed it along to a nurse who then gave it to elderly veterans.
The death rate of COVID-19 in the US has been about 6% (160,000 deaths/2,500,000 recovered). Worldwide it's at about 5% (700,000 deaths/12,500,000 recovered). https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
How do you get 0.04 percent as the death rate? 158,000 divided by 330,000,000 is higher than that, and obviously not everyone in the US has had covid-19.
Probably a mis-type, most people find percentage notation a little confusing. I would guess that he actually meant 0.004 simply; i.e., 0.4%, which is right about in the middle of the iFR rates I've been seeing lately.
"Urban liberal condescension" is a great motivator for voters to turn their backs against logic. WHY don't Democrats realize that Peter Strzok in his knuckleheaded texts displaying such disdain for the working class exposed a level of contempt at high levels of government that continues to scald them today?
Why? because most of the Democratic machinery would not have jobs -- Trump is the best thing that ever happened to them. It has given them a reason to exist. They sold everything else off. (If I hear one more time how " you must vote Democrat if only for the Supreme Court nominee-- really how is that working for you?)
How can the Democratic Party still be relevant? Through Bernie? Yup how did that work out for you? They sold US voters out during Bill Clinton, merged forces with their buddy elites across the aisle, fought them for Wall Street funding and reaped the (short term relatively) benefits. Now all they can do is fiddle on the margins. Really a Green New Deal-- hello China, Germany etc. have been doing this for 20 plus years-- yes China! Note the release of Chinas first electric car-- thanks Elon--. Does the US think that it has any chance in recreating a manufacturing base? That ship sailed.
The collapse is in full mode-- look local and support your neighbour.
Interesting take. However, there is something to consider regarding the upcoming election. In 2016, it was easy for me to vote for Gary Johnson. I don't really like Republicans. All it took was a massive operation to take down a duly elected president and a state sanctioned Marxist revolution in the middle of a pandemic to piss me off.
I went from politically disinterested to borderline activist in less than a year. I'm not a part of that populist right wing demographic. But now, there is nothing that could stop me from casting my vote for Trump. I may be an exception or there could be many other voters who share my sentiments. If so, November could get interesting.
I voted for Gary Johnson last time too, and I will vote for Trump this year for exactly the reason you gave: the left has become lawless, and the institutions it controls (universities, media) have contempt for free speech, due process, and other individual rights.
Look at the campus kangaroo courts; look at the speakers who have been chased off campus because they would offer a different viewpoint. Universities have been producing graduates who do not understand or respect the basic rights that make this a great country, and those graduates are attaining critical mass in the real world to end freedom as we know it.
Even if the Republicans have poor policies on issues like health care (and they do), it's essential to send the left packing until they show they will respect our Constitution and individual rights. And with any luck, within another four years, the propaganda mills we call universities will implode and be replaced by institutions that actually teach debate, free inquiry, and critical thinking.
In a couple of years, I will need to actually pre-qualify universities for my daughter based on whether they have incorporated critical theory and intersectionality into the curriculum. It will end up being a very short list.
I'll be doing that for my daughter in four years. The college where I studied is beautiful and I had a wonderful experience there, but it has since become a pit of post-modernism like the rest. Hillsdale is an option. If my daughter has the grades, I think University of Chicago still upholds some of the classical tradition, and at least protects free speech. But you're right: short list.
Good luck with that, unless your daughter is pursuing an education in welding technology or something similar. Campus activism demanding inclusion of post-modernism, woke intersectionality and social justice content is making its way into STEM programming now, even at large world-class research institutions. At least the UofChi has stated their commitments to principles of free intellectual thinking and an open learning environment.
Are you a college grad? It sounds as though you don't understand how colleges work. You, the student, CHOOSES what courses to take! I never, for example, took a course in Women's Studies, Queer Theory, African-American Studies, etc. They were all available, but, others were more interesting to me. Colleges have distribution requirements: 4 semesters of a foreign language, 2 semesters of science, etc. but not a specific course.
Woke Twitter is currently proposing that 2+2=5. They just don't mention that 2 is a variable. It seems to have something to do with transgender ism. Also, critical thinking and the scientific method is racist.
I understand your reasoning to an extent. I, too, am frustrated by the trend you are describing, though I think the examples you cite are not nearly as common as the media and internets would have us think. However, I can't for the life of me see why voting for Trump will solve this.
I remember hearing about the Horowitz report in passing on the evening news. The first thing that popped into my head was that it could be as bad as Watergate if it were true. I expected to hear more about it because it was clearly newsworthy. I didn't. That is how I ended up here. As it turns out, it is considerably worse than Watergate.
When that became clear, I knew that I would be voting for Trump. I couldn't directly, or indirectly, support the Democratic party because of the Russian collusion hoax. It was a coordinated disinformation campaign that was intended to defraud the public and overturn an election. It was an attack on our Constitutional Republic and on Democracy itself.
The Democratic party has become an illiberal institution that no longer values the rule of law or the government of the people. They have made that clear by jeopardizing the safety and security of the citizens of this country. They have turned a blind eye to violent insurrectionists who are literally burning Democratic institutions to the ground. Their tacit approval of Marxist principles and those who support them is a direct threat to liberty and justice for all Americans. That is why I am voting for Trump.
You are correct. The Marxists are the petulant children rioting in the streets every night. Pelosi and Schumer are far more selective but they are equally seditious. They merely defrauded the American public by weaponizing our national security apparatus and court system to violate civil liberties and try to impeach the duly elected President of the United States. Otherwise, I'm sure that they are very good people.
Yes, they are guilty of this. Voting for another person that flouts the Constitution isn't an answer, though. It's a protest vote. And a useless one. If you really want to protest, vote third party.
That, in my opinion, is a false equivalency. The DNC tried to fraudulently overturn the will of the people. That is not forgivable. Trump, for all of his faults, hasn't done anything that even remotely compares to that. At this point, voting third party would be indirect support for the DNC. That is something that I cannot do. This isn't a protest vote. I'm voting for our Constitutional Republic.
The dearth of acceptable alternatives outside of Trump and Biden helps me to at least understand where you're coming from. I won't be voting for either but rather writing in the person I feel represents my views the most. I admit that I have that luxury because I live in a solidly blue state. My main problem with Trump is his hiring of deregulators in regulatory positions-often with glaring conflicts of interest--or even just "acting" heads that are not vetted by Congress. I also have a problem with a President who sincerely believes he is above the law. And then there's the fact that he's such a goddamn infantile boor.
Would love to hear what you think about Trump's patently obvious attempts to preemptively delegitimize the election results by casting doubt on mail-in ballots.
Also, and please answer honestly, when you listen to him talk about something--anything--do you think to yourself "This guy's talking a lot of sense and he really has people's best interests at heart"?
But Trump and Republicans in general, don’t hold dear the principles you explain that you hold dear, so why not vote third party? Or refrain from voting. Anything but throwing good votes after bad.
I am with you about the antidemocratic plotting, but I don't get it about the violent Marxist insurrectionists burning Democratic institutions. In fact I'm not sure how you literally burn an institution. Please tell me what you mean.
His Secretary of Education promulgated a rule to eliminate the campus kangaroo courts and require basic due process, including the right to cross examine, etc. Biden says he will repeal this regulation immediately if elected. I am also hopeful for a regulation that will withhold federal funding from colleges that do not protect free speech. I'm disappointed we didn't get that this term. But we most certainly will not get it if Biden is elected.
Taibbi did a lot of reporting on the Russia collusion hoax. If you believe his reporting--which was well supported and keeps getting corroborated with new documents--the Dems, intelligence services, FBI and media attempted a coup. Do you think returning them to power is a way to fight fascism?
Scott: I feel the same. I did not vote for Trump the first time around. But like many Americans I abhor the use of power to intimidate and destroy those who are weaker or who think differently. I think Matt is being too quick to assume Biden will win in 2020. I believe there are a lot of people who are thinking like you. One other piece of evidence: the jury decision in Gibson's Bakery v. Oberlin College. Those jurors were members of a very middle-of-the-road community who had enough of leftist bullies trying to destroy and cancel the little guy. No one talks about that verdict as a precursor but I believe it is
I agree. I know of alot of conservatives that opted out in 2016 by voting third party or not voting at all. I suspect that the majority of those votes will go red. The DNC is not coming from a position of strength right now. They are leaderless and their platform is incomprehensible.
They should be pounding the table for liberal Democratic values. They should be condemning violence and unanimously shutting down any notion of defunding the police. Job number one for any government is safety and security. They are trying to be everything to the mob and the mob hates them for it. The DNC has become the illiberal party.
At this time four years ago, the GOP was fragmented and in a state of denial. Establishment Republicans hated Trump. Bush and Cruz were demoralized. He single handedly hijacked the GOP while he openly mocked them. I've never seen an institution collapse in on itself in a more dramatic fashion.
Now, the GOP is Donald Trump's party and he has the strongest support he has ever had. Support among Republican voters is incredibly high and they are picking up voters like me. Underestimating him would be incredibly foolish. After 2016, I thought that skepticism would be commensurate with polling but I guess not.
Meanwhile, entrenched DNC cities are slashing police budgets while they support, defend and protect petulant children that are actively trying to burn Democratic institutions to the ground. Predictably, crime is spiking to levels that they haven't seen in decades.
How is that a winning strategy? Outside of staffers in the media, does anyone actually like what the DNC has become? It is incredible when you think about it. They have actually become a caricature of the Democratic party.
That was me but that is not in reference to well meaning protestors. I am referring to those who use them for cover so that they can do damage. There is a world of difference.
$34 million in damages. That, combined with the Covid losses might have hoisted Oberlin on it’s own petard.
The key in that case was a document where an Oberlin diversity dean or some such functionary threatened/promised to “unleash the students” upon the bakery owners.
That was the legal basis for holding Oberlin liable. Students are not employees, and a college would otherwise not necessarily be liable for what its students do.
As an Asian American Republican in Southern California, I also couldn’t pull the trigger for Trump. Instead I also cast my vote for Johnson. But the overwhelming hatred and attacks from all quarters has motivated me to vote straight Republican come November. I have relatives and friends in SoCal who are independent. They are frightened by the images of cities burning, and outraged by the blatant hypocrisy of the press. They’ve told me privately they are voting Trump. These people are watching Fox News and Tucker Carlson, something I never would have thought possible. Will Trump win? Biden is clearly the favorite as of now but I wouldn’t be shocked at all if Trump wins again.
That is what I have seen and heard as well. I cannot understand why Democratic leadership isn't condemning these acts of violence. Anyone who has remotely paid attention knows that these are coordinated attacks on American institutions from far left extremists. Distancing themselves from people who hate them anyway would be the right move. Physical security is a very powerful motivator. I could be completely wrong but I just don't see how this ends in a Biden presidency.
How about "The delivery of 200,000 missing mail-in ballots in Michigan and 600.000 in North Carolina, breaking 90-10% FOR Biden, may assure his victory. What a surprise comeback!"
This is a deeply weird way to think about your vote. Does Trump support policy outcomes you do? Is he the best choice available to move us out of the pandemic? Are you better off now than you were four years ago?
Because to me, those are the questions we should be asking. Whether the press is mean to him is a childish rubric to use.
And to be clear: I'm no Biden fan. Both he and Trump are well to my right, to whatever extent either man has an actual ideology. But there's no universe where I can talk myself into the idea that Trump's actually trying to lead or gives a damn about anyone who earns less than an eight figure salary.
Trump supports some policy outcomes I do, more so than Biden.
I don't think the President has much to do with "moving us out of the pandemic." Time and science are going to do that regardless of who is in the White House.
Until March I was and so were most people. I don't blame Trump for the emergence of a pandemic.
Your hatred for Trump is clear. But to be clear, your vote is the one that is deeply weird. You are going to vote for Biden despite him being 'well to your right."
Voting for the lesser of two evils is saner than making your rubric "were some writers being pissy to him?"
Rest of this I just disagree with. And I'd suggest that you take an honest look about what policy outcomes you think Trump wants and his efforts at actually making those happen.
What rubric are you referring to? I never discussed writers being pissy to him.
The fact that you disagree with my perspectives in interesting...
...Two of the questions you asked were about my policy outcomes and my personal situation...it'd odd that you think you can disagree with my answers. They may not be yours but they are accurate for me.
The only one that was substantive and general was about moving us out of the pandemic. Be specific as to what you think Biden will do that will move us out of the pandemic better than what Trump would do.
It was a joke about the comment I was originally replying to---voting Trump because people were ganging up on him. I think that's a crappy reason to vote to anyone.
I disagree with the idea that the president is not responsible to move us out of a pandemic, especially taking into account that we no longer have a functioning legislative body.
I also disagree that Trump even has a coherent set of policy outcomes to support but to the extent he does, few are appealing to me. Further consolidation of wealth isn't something I'm keen on. His education secretary is a ghoul and I have a lot of teachers in my family.
Some of his original claims while he ran for president would be lovely to see. An actual investment in our infrastructure would be tremendous. The "better and cheaper" healthcare plan he promised would be great too. He just has shown no capacity for achieving anything outside of starting culture wars. Also, you did not mention a single policy outcome Trump wants that you support.
So yeah, I'm judging Trump by what he's done in four years. You seem more keen to absolve him of responsibility. That's your prerogative. I find it transparent and uninteresting.
Agreed-I voted for Johnson in 16’, b/c I am a libertarian and Hillary and Trump both annoyed and disgusted me. Not this time-it’s about saying NO to the corporate-woke alliance.
I also think that the dems are in for a surprise with the black vote.
Not that blacks will vote for Trump in big numbers, but that they refuse to vote at all.
Why? It will be because of the riots in their cities and the Defund the Police Movement.
Been reading some really interesting articles out of Seattle, Portland and Minneapolis about outraged minorities freaking out about what has happened there and them wanting their cops back.
100% agree with you. The far left does not speak for the typical Black person in America. For example: I live in a really racially diverse neighborhood, and I work for a really woke company of mostly white and Asian people. On the 4th of July, my coworkers were all like, it's racist to celebrate the 4th. Meanwhile, the people who shot off the most fireworks in my neighborhood? A Black family and a Mexican family. And all of us—Black, white, Asian, old, young—were in our yards clapping and shouting. It was awesome.
Yes, it's not the disadvantaged who rely on the police for protection from unrest and violence that too often ravages their communities that want to 'defund the police'.
what is this cornball nonsense? You think an oxymoron is redeemed by your hyperbole?
The rest of the nations of the developed world have imposed a similar regime of temporary retail business closures, social distancing, and mask regulations. One important distinction between the policies imposed by the US and those of other countries is that every other nation with a similar level of per capita GDP and income has backstopped their population with a level of income support and systems of medical coverage what are an order of magnitude more extensive than anything that we've managed to provide in the US. You know, even more comprehensive policies of the sort that you're deriding in your tantrum as as "state-sanctioned Marxist revolution." As if "Marxist revolution" is the way that Congress operates. As if President Trump didn't sign the relief bills.
Another important distinction between the US and the social democracies of the EU and Japan is that those countries presently have their virus outbreaks in check. And the US does not. Because too many Americans have no sense of the difference between Freedom and Entitlement. Countries where the social consensus accepts the prevailing medical purview- even late adopters like the UK- have active case and death curves that are decidedly on the downslope. For example:
(I don't use Youtube guided meditation clips as medical references.)
I was a Libertarian before you began touting it. Back around 1980, before it was trendy. Oh, we wuz heretics in those days, Scott. There was some actual intellectual ferment going on, before it went sour.
I eventually rejected Libertarianism as a political ideology- it's too dogmatic, just like all of the other monolithic ideological templates. I'm a pragmatic pluralist about ideology these days. I just want to do something that actually works, that's fair. Dogmatic ideologues...well, dogmatic ideology inevitably trends in the direction of extremism, parading as The One True Answer To Questions of Economics and Society. So I'm not surprised that Libertarianism eventually got hijacked by the Ayn Rand cult and the entitled crypto-GOP whiners of the world. But I'll always have a libertarian philosophical bent. (And I know better than to twist the notion of wearing masks to prevent the spread of disease into a political statement, or even more comically as genuflecting to looming tyranny. I was marching and publicly protesting against the War on Drugs in the 1970s, the 1980s, the 1990s... I have some perspective.)
I'm not talking about COVID-19 and lock downs. I'm talking the woke mob of antifa rioters that have attacked people and property all over the country for several months now. These types of organizations are unapologetically Marxist.
"Antifa" is not an organization. It's a disorganized pack of attention-seeking young males with too much time on their hands, fueling their egocentrism. In thrall to what Robin Morgan refers to as The Demon Lover in her book by that title. (Speaking of a person of the Left who appears to have been discreetly "canceled" for many years now, which I suspect is due mostly to the fact that she busted Left acquiescence to the domination tactics of terrorism and violence in that 1989 book.) Self-absorbed "activists" trashing Portlandia- a city that's gone out of its way to be environmentally conscious and livable- that's about par for the course for the Antifa mentality.
I've spoken out against those "antifa" imbeciles as long as I've known about them. But I also recall the summers of 1976 and 1968, and nothing has happened in 2020 that approaches that scale of damage and death toll. The ratio of nonviolent protest to rioting is much, much higher nowadays.
That said, the current protest movements in some cities are woefully undisciplined. Moreover, "taking to the streets" has very limited utility as a tactic. And focusing on confronting the police instead of the sources of institutional oppression is like falling for a game of three-card monte.
I support the protests, as a necessary first step in getting people together. People need to get their stories together. And this does include dialogue with those who express disagreements, as long as it's mutually respectful.
I also wish that the protestors showed some reasonable wisdom and compassion toward the police- who are showing up at those demonstrations because they've been ordered there, not because they're counter-protestors. It's summer, they're hot and uncomfortable in those uniforms, they could probably use some cold bottled water instead of having shit thrown at them.
Agree with everything except the protests. All things considered, most police officers are making the best of a bad job (we ask them to do far too much with too little training). These protests are based on misinformation (e.g., that there is an epidemic of police killings of unarmed Black males--there isn't) and a denial of the reality of higher Black crime (which no doubt is influenced strongly by disadvantages, but exists nonetheless). 1/3 of Black men have felony convictions. Yet, in 2018, only 15 armed, unfleeing whites were killed by the police and 9 Blacks. (Obviously we should work to 0). What are they protesting the police for? Seriously?
He IS actively destroying the country, this very second. Putin has the goods on him and he puts Putin's word above the 17 U.S. Intelligence agencies who said Russia interfered.
How are Democrats destroying the country by wanting health care and education for all?
The fact that you are continuing to push the completely discredited Russian collusion nonsense evidences your level of partisan gullibility. That WAS an actual step towards fascism, but from the Obama DOJ and its holdovers, not Trump. However, as its clear you're getting all your news from Rachel Maddow and maybe TPM, I think we're done here.
I believe everyone of our 17 intelligence agencies over a pathological liar. Maybe you never heard of the Helsinki meet between Putin and Trump. Maybe you did not watch or listen as 15 dedicated state department operatives, including Trumps personal appointment as Ambassador to NATO testified about his lies. Maybe you did not hear Col. Vindeman or Marie Yovanovitch and others who testified to Trumps treason. Mitt Romney it seems is the only Republican with the strength of character to hear the truth and act on it.
Maybe you get all your news from Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Alex Jones.
P.S. The only people to discredit the Russiagate conspiracy is Trump and his goons." Hello, Russia, if you are listening".
That doesn't even include the latest revelations. Every American should be, at the very least, concerned about that fraudulent investigation. Some of us are angry about it and we will cast our votes accordingly.
'How are Democrats destroying the country by wanting health care and education for all?' I would say: they want it, and do nothing serious to bring it about. In addition, they actively support endless imperialist wars and a huge apparatus to spy on the people of their own country, and continue to pursue Identity politics even when it blows up in their faces and damages the fabric of the society.
Spreading fables like Russiagate and engaging in the attendant McCarthyism doesn't help, either.
No gaslighting, none, zero. It seems you can't deal with any opposing opinions. I do not accept Taibbi's opinion without question. I know it is popular for some to discount all journalism but their own. You have your right to discredit who you wish, in so doing you limit your sources and to say nothing credible comes from the NYT or Atlantic is not sensible. You just gotta separate the pepper from the fly shit.
I was wrong when I called you a troll and I'm sorry about that, but you are exceptionally ignorant and arrogant in your ignorance. There is a word for it that I forgot; the {something} effect, which refers to the experiments that show that the most ignorant people have the highest confidence in their opinions. I resent being expected to waste my time on dummies like you, but I will give you an example. The factoid about 17 intelligence agencies is a lie. In fact a handpicked panel of analysts from about half a dozen intel agencies was convened to say they believed that Russia did it. Go read Consortiumnews.
Super easy. How about commuting the sentence of a man who was convicted of federal felonies 7 times because he is a personal friend, all the while degrading military patriots for telling the truth about him.
Just an opener, you can go back and start with his stupid lie that Obama was not a US citizen, which was a racist dog whistle and the flood of lies since. He loves the uneducated because education destroys ignorance.
We officially need a block function on Substack… my favorite was the other guy this morning telling you that he didn't need to come here to get in the same old arguments, when I think it's only these new people like him initiating these same old arguments.
I don't think blocking is a good function. People wield it like the hammer of God. Signing off with "blocked" as if they have proven something.
I'm happy to take all comers. I've had my share of comments I regretted on other platforms and will endeavor not to do so here. It is exactly the people you want to block that you need to try to reach, at least in my opinion.
Play the legal vs morality game if you wish. I consider it an abuse of power when someone willfully and knowingly spreads lies (conspiracy theories), takes justice into your own hands in spite of our judicial system and practice character assassination from a bully pulpit just because you can a crime against those ignorant enough to believe you. His crimes are covered up by a Senate majority who cares not one twit for me or you, only their control and power.
I still want to see his tax forms which i bet with odds show interest payments to Russian oligarchs and the money laundering Deutsche Bank.
In other words, nothing he did is illegal but you consider it wrong.
Using the word "criminal" should still imply an actual crime was committed, not something you disagree with (which is all abuse of power is anyway). There is a significant difference between illegal and immoral. I can only conclude you have no evidence of the former.
To that end, you should clarify your initial comment if you want people to understand your perspective
And you are sure that the Russia hoax is real and the next shoe is about to drop.
Thank you for the clarification of your perspective.
Fraud with his “university” for which he paid $25m to settle and “a shocking pattern of illegality” with his “foundation” which he was forced to dissolve and pay a $2m settlement.
Huh, he wasn't charged with fraud was he? Turns out the word crime still has meaning.
And, of course, those things have nothing to do with his Presidency. Calling people criminals and traitors without evidence is in no way likely to provoke productive dialog.
Logic has no appeal to them. Every word i stated is truth, fact. The senate hearing on the impeachment was a white wash bad joke. Not one single witness, not one scrap of data, zero, nada. Total control by every single Republican senator and their leader except Romney, a complete farce. Logic and honesty does not exist when it comes to party power.
I agree with your assessment of the malignant narcissist. However, the USA is going over a cliff no matter who wins this election, for reasons too many to count. I despise the smarmy Biden as much as the cretinous moron now occupying the White House. That is why I vote for third party candidates. I also live in a solidly blue state. I still get screamed at by liberals for “giving a vote to Trump” by voting third party. Ask me if I give a rat’s ass.
I agree the Democratic Party needs to re-evaluate. We are sick of establishment control that made Trump our current president rather than Bernie Sanders.
Both parties have flaws, it's just that the Republican Party ignores the fact that Trump is a treasonous fascist liar. The Republicans blocked every witness from testifying. Trump blocked every single piece of evidence requested. He has kept his financial history away from our congress and the American people. Why? Because he is a criminal par excellence.
Bernie Sanders had no hope of becoming President in 2016. In 2020, the same is true. Right now Joe is getting a pass by saying little in public and having a compliant media that doesn't seem to want to discuss the fact that his numbers don't add up, just as Bernie's never did.
Bernie had a strong chance. The Democratic establishment along with their media control nixed it in favor of Hillary, a deadly mistake. I quit the Democratic party totally and became independent. Bernie was and is an Independent, a true standard bearer for the common person.
Whether you want to hear this or not, Bernie is too far left to be elected President today. The current incarnation of Biden would be the most leftist President since WWII.
In 20 years, things may change. Indeed they will change whether we like it or not
I just don't see how this solves anything. Do you expect that Trump will do anything to quiet down riots based on racial divides? This idea that Marxist revolutionaries are driving the violence has no basis in fact. You've obviously been played by the media as to the level of destruction occurring on the ground. Portland has been thrown out as a wasteland of destruction, but that's far from the case and most of the issues have happened in about a one block radius of downtown.
Violence is instigated on both sides by those trying to delegitimize the protests. You've got a fascist federal government deploying unidentified federal agents in unmarked vehicles to the area to sow discord. On the other end there is video of unidentified black clad individuals breaking windows of businesses and quickly leaving the area while protesters nearby tell them to stop.
If you were to tell me that you wanted to burn the country down to show the Democrats they can't pull the same bullshit with Biden in the same centrist role as every previous candidate I would somewhat understand that, but at the same time there are real people out there suffering due to the miserable handling of the covid-19 situation by the Trump administration. Giving Trump the nod again would basically tell him that everything he has done up till now has been correct and he would double down. That's how the man operates.
It shouldn't be too much to ask elected officials to enforce the rule of law. Trump has demonstrated that he will do this without the overreach that many accuse him of. He would be well within the authority of his office to invoke the insurrection act but he hasn't done so. If anything, he has demonstrated restraint and he has honored Federalism and state sovereignty to the extent that is possible.
There is no acceptable degree of riotous activity by anyone. By and large, we know that far left extremists are responsible for the vast majority of the damage and unrest. There are relatively few examples otherwise. You aren't going to gaslight me. Either way, it is atrocious and unacceptable. Anyone, of any political persuasion, should be criminally prosecuted for these senseless criminal acts.
I fully support the deployment of Federal officers to Portland and other cities to quell violence and protect Federal property. They are not unidentified officers. To the contrary, all of them have clearly marked insignia and unique identifiers on their uniforms. These people have gone through hell. They deserve our respect and gratitude.
State and local officials are duty bound to enforce the rule of law, protect citizens and property. In the absence of that, the Federal government is duty bound to do so. I expect nothing less than that. Federalism does not equal feudalism.
The widespread rioting and looting in the wake of George Floyd has devestated businesses all across the nation just as many of them were preparing to open. That has affected communities small and large all over including those that are disadvantaged. Recovering from widespread lock downs was going to be difficult but after the riots, it will be completely impossible for many.
This is a time for unity not partisanship but in our political climate, that may not be possible. The lack of coverage for this is media malpractice. Americans are in the dark for the real impact. It's heartbreaking.
this 'burn the whole country down' line is getting repeated but what is it based on? record low unemployment and solid economic growth (pre Covid), so which parts are being burned down exactly?
We aren't pre-Covid and we aren't pre-George Floyd either. I'm talking about right now, where Covid has killed 150k+ people and is on its way to killing more and the economy has tanked because Trump is an incompetent boob that has literally said he takes no responsibility for anything and continues to follow up on that by doing nothing at the federal level to mitigate this pandemic.
Most of the Trump voters I know were iffy on voting for him again until the pandemic. His mishandling of that scared them away and lost their votes.
I won't pretend this is anything other than anecdotal but if the president is supposed to be a leader and he fails his biggest leadership test, it's going to turn people off. This crisis is personalizing federal politics for a lot of the country. And almost no one's better off now than they were in February.
Two points: Justin Amash voted to impeach. I respect him. Romney, also, voted on 1 article to impeach. I respect him. But, while I do agree with some of what you say, Trump has neither brought jobs back, nor ended wars, nor “won” the trade war with China, nor made multi national (and other) corps. pay taxes as long as they park their assets in the Cayman Islands or claim it as their “headquarters”. Where is the great infrastructure he promised? But, the truly concerning thing is he has signed a cyber war initiative so dangerous and extreme that neither W nor Obama would touch it with a ten foot pole. That is all in addition to his lies, his constant fanning of the flames of division and contempt, his unwillingness to be even moderately calm and soothing and to attempt to bring Americans together. He pours gasoline on the flames of our discourse. Everyday, he and his tweets keep the country stirred up and at each others’ throats. He and his chaotic administration are a disgrace. Oh, and, all he did with NAFTA is to barely tweak it. Trade deals were supposed to be his signature accomplishment. All pols lie. Trump lies CONSTANTLY and UNABASHEDLY using his 4th grade vocabulary. He gaslights us every time he opens his phone or his mouth: Who you gonna believe, Trump or your lying eyes?
I'm what's been known as a "Never-Trump-Conservative". I've been railing against him since he was nominated. But the events of the last couple months might force me to vote for him.
What's evident here is a piece like this is coalescing into a thesis about the state of affairs, what I would characterize as a classical Left wing critique of power structures that tries to transcend party lines in order to describe the objective political reality.
I think you're nailing it. Keep it up.
On a personal level I feel deep alienation and cynicism from cultural Left op eds from places like the NYT that drip with storytelling, narrative goo and aim to spurn calm attempts to interpret data. On the other hand, if I look at the Right wing press I have to read repetitive hand-winging about so-called cultural Marxism, and defense of laissez faire ideas I believe led to this mess in the first place.
So am I a fascist for getting exasperated when I open up a Kindle or an Amazon page and get bombarded with anti-racism nonsense, giant BLM lettering, and reminders of my privilege? Or am I a dumb liberal when I question the Republican project to banish Obamacare and give tax breaks to the wealthiest?
Answer - both! The real Resistance now is to escape the corporate sponsored categories and remain an outcast. And not end up smeared, depressed and obscured. Or just keep my mouth shut.
How long before it's just easier to leave the country and live abroad, Matt?
I don't think you experience the same degree of stupidity and cupidity in Ireland, for example, nor in Costa Rica, nor in Scotland, maybe not in Spain or Greece or some South American countries. I am, frankly, planning to move abroad. The United States exists only to make war and we have a war economy and hardly anyone cares...at least nobody with any real influence. I know a number of people who are okay with us killing people as long as they are brown and especially if they are Muslim. We have 800 military bases all over the world. I've been doing my best to make this country, to which my ancestors immigrated in the 1600s, a more just, peaceful, and humane place. My Congressional reps (3) could care less what a simple, individual like me thinks or wants, at least not about any controversial issue. Global corporations, foreign lobbies, and other special interests rule this country, not Trump, Biden, Pelosi or any politician and CERTAINLY not us! Young people give me hope. I'm a left winger and I support "the Squad" but already they are being forced to, at times, kowtow to the DNC. I fear one or more of them may lose her seat in Nov. but I pray I'm wrong. I hold some views one might consider "conservative" I suppose but I would never (now) vote GOP or Libertarian.
I said the same thing when Bush was re-elected! And I've been living in Europe since 2009. I can assure you that people are just as stupid here.
Why, just the other day a man overheard my kids speaking English and excitedly pulled me aside to tell me how much he loved America... and that 9/11 was an inside job, COVID-19 is a deep state conspiracy, 5G is mind control and the American government would soon be replaced with a fascist regime headed by a never-end succession of Trumps. (Ok that last one might just be an empirical observation.) Just this weekend, 17,000 people gathered mask-less in Berlin to protest government over-reach and the tyranny of social distancing policies. And last month 5G towers were burned down in the Netherlands and the UK by people who were convinced that 5G radiation spread the coronavirus. The Gilet Jaunes are ironing their vests right now to protest the French government for mandating, but not paying for, masks... after they're done with their current protests against raising the retirement age to create room in the budget for things like paying for masks.
The good news is that my government representatives don't even have to pretend to represent my views because I'm not allowed to vote (but I am allowed to pay taxes). Also, everyone here is an unapologetic racist against Southern and Eastern Europeans, Africans, Muslims and especially Americans whom they believe to be irredeemably racist. Also Asians. They are very considerate, though, shouting their racist insults in English. It turns out that when the racist white people are the indigenous population, white/liberal guilt just isn't a thing.
1) Which city do you live in? 2) Which city in the US are you from/going to? 3) I lived in Stuttgart, Germany and in Italy. I did not experience the things you describe. I lived with a German family in Stuttgart and in Italy, I visited my then-Italian husband’s family and friends and later, I was a summer abroad student. I met and worked with tons of people, none were expats. All were natives of the country or in one case the very brilliant daughter of Turkish Gästarbiters. (They did describe some prejudice against them, though, from Germans.) Also, one executive made some slightly offensive comments about foreign workers but that is fairly typical of CEOs and their attitudes toward labor, imho, anywhere. I liked the healthfulness, the fitness, the value of leisure time, the elegance, the higher level of literacy and knowledge. Very little consumption of junk food. No eating between meals. A sense of style, and a bigger and broader sense of history. It’s like the opposite of going to any mall in America where all one sees are jumbo this and jumbo that and people looking like they should be in their bedrooms watching TV, all the while buying garbage they don’t need to put into SUVs that are too big, and into houses that are twice the size of the average house in 1957. 1 in 4 Americans is an End Times believer who thinks the earth is less than 6,000 years old. Half this country can’t name the 3 branches of government.
I lived in three different states and nine (or maybe 10) cities coast-to-coast and I've now lived, worked and raised a family in Europe for over a decade. I travel all over the world (and especially in Europe) for work. And my experience is that the US is great, Europe is great, Chile is great, Argentina is great, Japan is great, Costa Rica is great, Mexico is Great, Canada is great, Singapore is great, the UK is great --- there is not greener grass on the other side of the fence, but everyone should live abroad if they get the chance. It's great and it really broadens your horizons.
Stupid people are everywhere, but so are wonderful, kind people. Sure, Europe has a broader sense of history, but go ahead and ask a product of the French educational system about colonialism and their history in Algeria or a product of the Dutch educational system about their involvement in the slave trade or ask a Scott if they know how many streets are named after slave traders. Or, if you prefer civics, go a head and ask --- as I often do --- about their country's legislative system, the female labor participate rate or rudimentary history of a neighboring country and you'll get blank stares. They are just as ignorant as Americans. It just feels bigger because our (American) education is so Americocentric that we're shocked to learn of the rich history of the European continent that is part of the standard curriculum virtually everywhere here. But the reverse is also true; I often find myself regaling the details of American history to my European colleagues. And I've met plenty of Europeans who could not find California or Texas on a map, just as I have Americans who couldn't even tell you what side of the continent Spain is on. I'm not just pulling people off the street, either, I spend most of my professional life interacting with scientists and engineers with PhDs.
I have to say I agree with you. Though I've certainly had some unhappy run ins with Euro bigots or corporate jerks, altogether the style and quality of life is high for ordinary people in many or most EU countries. And I like what you say about a "big sense of history." That really makes all the difference. Most Americans don't know what happened last year let alone last century. It's not at all perfect in France or Holland, etc., but altogether it's better and allows for a better life.
Euro countries have their crazies, but the standard if living is high and healthcare is covered. People have every reason to consider moving there. If they do it correctly re visas, they will have a union job, decent pay, maternity/paternity leave, summers off, free healthcare and much else. I actually think that "nation abandonment" will start to become an open political issue over the next ten years, as domestic policues only make life harder, global warming worsens, unemployment expands, and cost of living sky rockets. More and more of us will simply choose to leave. I know my wife and I have considered it in the past, in fact we've already lived abroad and who knows, we could easily do so again one day. Life in France is a breeze compared to the sheer insanity here.
As I said, I went through the same thought process when Bush was re-elected as did many other Americans, but I pulled the trigger and moved. Although I seriously do want to move back to the US, I do not regret moving to Europe one bit!
Healthcare: I don't even know how much I pay because my premium is so low I don't notice it. My first interaction with universal healthcare was when I fell and thought I'd broken my wrist. I walked three doors down from my house (literally) and waited for 20 minutes to see my GP, who referred me to the hospital. Three hours later I had an X-Ray; no money changed hands. The total cost of having a child was around $200 each, but that's only because we opted for an extra test to check for Down Syndrome. Otherwise it would have been free, including the home delivery, in which a crack team of midwives showed up to our house at the drop of a hat to shepherd us through the whole process. I particularly like how we were able to chose exactly how "medicalized" we wanted things to be.
Union job: Not really relevant to my ivory tower profession, but the janitorial staff only had to stage a slowdown for about four weeks to get a (much deserved) pay raise. Employment contracts do make it virtually impossible to fire people, which means that we have to shuffle incompetent and lazy people around the organization to find where they can do the least harm.
Decent pay: In the sense that it is in line with the high standard of living, that is true, but I pay 50% income tax on a much lower salary than I would have in the US in exchange for just about everything being free --- when I visit the US I am always taken aback by how I am constantly nickel and dimed because nothing is publicly funded. But I do have more choice there, since everything here is provided by the government.
Maternity/Paternity leave: Oh, absolutely. Plus no one guilt trips you for taking the time off work. Also, I can stand up at a meeting at 17:00 and say "I have to go get my kids" and everyone will just nod in agreement and tell me I'd better get going. The "live to work versus work to live" axiom is my lived experience.
Summers off: Only in the sense that you get much more generous vacation days than in the US --- you still have to pay for your holidays. And they're not cheap because, somewhat ironically, American (and Chinese) tourists jack up the prices.
The thing that I think Americans under estimate about expatriating is the psychological and emotional effects of social and cultural isolation. It is very, very hard to make friends outside of your circle of expats (from all over the world, which is neat) and even harder to see your kids being indoctrinated into a foreign culture. I took it for granted that I was a product of the culture in which I lived. Also, it is crazy expensive to fly back to the US to see your family and difficult to feel connected, even with modern communication, because of the time difference.
I have quite a bit of insight into life in France and it can be a breeze if you are French, but don't expect decent pay or for anyone to speak English or to understand that learning French is hard. France is a Southern state, meaning it is less wealthy than, say, Germany or Denmark. For example, when you cross the border into France electric cars vanish from the roads. And outside of Paris and Lyon, everything is farmland dotted with tiny villages where you are not going to find a job without an EU passport.
Oh, but I forgot the best part of living in Europe --- at least where I live --- I haven't owned or even driven a car since I moved here. And I don't miss it at all. Trains travel is also awesome when it isn't constantly under assault from one the two major political parties.
I'd really like to discuss all this with you, actually. I was considering going to the Sorbonne next year for a masters (I speak some French, my father was French Canadian). Can we get in touch?
I'm happy to help --- but I think you'll have to disclose an email address in a public forum (and for every spam-bot to see).
The first piece of advice I always give is to find out if you are eligible for citizenship in a European country. I happen to be Italian-American and having an Italian passport makes all the difference in the world --- I can come and go as I please, I am not subject to any immigration requirements, I can travel freely around Europe, I never get hassled at the border, etc. Of course, a passport is total overkill for a semester abroad, but if you are seriously thinking about expatriating, it's not a bad idea to look into that option now.
If you're pursuing a masters, then you're probably much younger than me, in which case you will have an easier time socializing and learning the language, especially if you already know some French. Paris is also way friendlier for foreigners than the rest of France because it is a big city. (But expensive!) Even so, you cannot underestimate how difficult things can be without at least A1/A2 French.
My advice to students always the same: do it! You can go through your current university, which will have existing exchange and collaboration programs with foreign universities or you can apply directly. Just make sure to look up all the entrance requirements. For a French university, they will almost certainly need everything translated to French (officially, which costs money) plus you will need some official documents that align your transcript with the ECTS system (e.g., letter grades translated to numbers, credit hours translated into ECTS). Sometimes they don't formally require French proficiency (it varies by university and degree) but if they do, you will have to get a certificate. The rest really falls into place, since the French university will help you with a visa, housing, etc. once you are accepted.
I think the "Squad" represents every ridiculous Cultural Left war that's divorced from class and Reason that Matt is criticizing in these articles. They may not represent corporate power like the mainstream democrats, but I find them deeply hateful, aggressive and prone to demagoguery, similar to the way the Right behaves. I believe that someone like the AOC is "Trump" turned inside-out. There's clip after clip of her, quote after quote of her saying the most irrational things. If that's my alternative I think Costa Rica (as in your example) is more interesting.
Unfortunately you'll find the very same politicking elsewhere. I think it's important to question and keep an open mind, approach topics scientifically and don't subscribe to dogma. Things change stay adaptive, don't pigeonhole yourself into left or right, black or white.
don't be ridiculous. The biggest "cultural export" of the US for the last 35-odd years has been gaudy, tacky, venal sensationalist advertising hustles. "Product."
I think I understand the alienation and cynicism you might be feeling.
I appreciate that I live in Canada, so not living "abroad", but from my travelling in the last year and planned this Fall, I don't see much different in other parts of the world. Here in Canada as someone who organized unions and has always followed (what I define as) a progressive path, I was shocked when the local Toronto Council and Premier (Governor) of my Province didn't express shock and outrage at the JDL's (designated a terrorist organization here in Canada by the RCMP) violent attack on a pro-Palestinian business.
The worst part was the response from a staff member of my Councillor Josh Matlow which when I complained about the lack of arrests concerning the violence (ie where was the condemnation of this) was to state that the owner was anti-semitic (by whose standards? hers?) and how the owner talked about Epstein being a member of Mossad!? what? who cares! No response about the violence. I was left feeling the same-- who are these people, what happened. I felt that these people used to represent my interests. Not any more.
I am sure I have now been labelled anti-semitic by the Councillor's office just because I expressed concern over the violence and the right to free speech (banners, writing etc.)
We do have a hate law here in Canada (infamous case Ernst Zundel) so why not charge the business owner if it fits.
And do I want to be part of the Conservative party that our Premier is part of? No -- same dilemma different country. And friends in Germany and France provide similar stories. It seems like it is just bigger in the U.S. and has been around longer.
The USA, CA, the UK, Germany, France, Austria, Australia, South Africa are 100% Zionist Occupied now. That is one of the main reasons I plan to move somewhere, such as Ireland, where you can actually be openly and proudly Pro Palestinian. We no longer have 1st A rights here. 26+ states and counting have passed anti-BDS laws. The USA exists solely to make war, especially wars in the interest of the Oded Yinon Plan for Greater Israel. That is another big difference between Ireland, or Spain, or Greece and the USA. They don’t have military bases all over the world and are not constantly meddling in other countries. I’m sure one runs across idiots everywhere but our country’s politicians are bought and paid for by the big donors and lobbyists, AIPAC, being one of the most powerful (Forbes).
As an Ohioan who grew up in a working class family, this seems spot on. And the insight re: elites terrified of a working class movement was spot on. Anybody watching Woke Capital celebrate Juneteenth or Pride Month believing corporate America will be a partner in a progressive future is a fool. It is much easier for corporate America to self-flagellate once a year at a diversity and inclusion seminar, tweet a rainbow flag, and hire a few diverse candidates to populate the Human Resources Department, than say, raise wages, pay health insurance, provide pensions, etc. Corporate America is a master of illusion, and other progressive elites in media and universities are too busy smelling their own farts to care about the underclass.
Not nearly as expensive as our current corrupt system. For example, fixing health care would save 40% compared to what we already spend; we'd live longer, and we'd spend less of our lives fighting with insurance companies. Rural broadband would cost money but it would be an investment in ourselves. (Kinda tough to do remote schooling without internet, 30% of US doesn't have robust internet.)
And please be honest - whatever the price, some would oppose it because it doesn't match their ideological goals. In fact, far too many (you perhaps?) view their ideology as their goal. For me, ideology is a guide. Ultimately we will need to collaborate across political divisions. I'm progressive, but if conservative ideas get us the desired goal I'd be fine with it.
Neither did the F-35... we seem to find the money once we decide we need something, and right now we all need health care that costs less, honestly covers all of us, is easier to use, and that gets better results. We currently have the most expensive health care in the world, but we are ranked lowest among developed nations.
Well, first off your statement is false. The F-35 did have a price tag...turned out it cost a lot more than that, as these things usually do but it had one.
There are only three ways to make health care cost materially less...
1. Reduce usage of health care (lower quantity).
2. Price controls = lower HCP salaries
3. Stop paying for new and innovative treatments - lower innovation.
Yep. "We tried black faces in high places" and it didn't mean anything. Look at Obama. The strategy is to keep everyone focused on who is kneeling and who isn't so that no one storms the boardrooms.
I think that the elites in this country are terrified for their positions.
Ya know...most of them do not contribute much beyond mental and emotional masturbation and they have been so wrong, so often, about so many things, that it is a wonder that they are believed at all.
The older I get, the more I see, the more I believe that the basic common sense of the average person has more practical value than any long, drawn out analysis and proposal by the elite.
Yes, and they are scared for a reason that Taibbi pointed out elsewhere. Trump voters bypassed the "keepers of the orthodoxy of the elite." That's why hysteria is the order of the day.
In the past, three groups decided who got to run for president: the two political parties, the donor class, and the media. Trump put them all on trial and won in 2016. The more they tried to slander him, the more people liked that he was bucking the system. Most people don't like that these groups get to decide who can run for president. So the goal is really to try to get everyone to self-disenfranchise, to not vote. In 2016, almost half of Americans couldn't be bothered, and "Did Not Vote" won by a landslide.
I used to despise you, Matt, for exactly what you confess to here - contempt and condescension towards the "proles."
Now I can't get enough of your stuff. Honest, thoughtful, reflective, and willing to stand up to the media Gestapo of 24/7 hate Trump and panic porn. Thank you.
Trump (whom I did not vote for) is an oafish, cartoonish, buffoon - and he revels in being that way.
But he does not possess anywhere close to the level of contempt Democrats have for people like me and my family.
Not rich. Not racists. Not sexists. Not filled with hate and greed.
We go to work, help others regardless of who they are, and want our kids to live in a safe world.
A parent of white sons wonders what the Dems have in store for them.
I think the left is in for another slap in the face in November.
They got the warning and decided to double-down on crazy.
I disagree with your characterization of Trump overall. He is a different side of the same coin. He doesn't have contempt for working class people so much as he doesn't give a crap about them or think of them at all. He has bankrupted business after business and treated his employees like dog shit during their employment and on the way out.
He is completely self involved and yet totally unaware of and unable to acknowledge his own failings.
He is the epitome of an already disgusting political establishment.
This is wonderful, thank you. The level of condescension and classism from even rank and file “liberals” these days is off the charts, but good luck getting them to see it or even having a conversation. Every conversation devolves into name-calling thanks to the folks who spend hours with cable news and Twitter every day. Even fellow liberals who used to be perfectly capable of independent thought have been made simplistic assholes thanks to full immersion in the groupthink echo chamber. It’s depressing.
I was an organizer for unions and then some other lefty organizations for about 10 years. There are a few things I feel certain of. Liberals are supposed to be pursuing progress; there are a few things that are going to be absolutely necessary to making it happen. You’re going to need a large coalition of people with at least one common interest, no matter how many things they disagree on, because numbers are the only way to beat entrenched power and money. In order to achieve that, you’re going to have to talk to people where they are and add people who aren’t with you yet to your coalition.
These things have become impossible in the liberal, or even mainstream media sphere today. We used to bemoan the powerful/the right using race, or slight class differences, to divide people and keep them from fighting their common enemy. The right doesn’t need to do it anymore; we’ll do it for them. We’re intent on splitting our own tribe into many small tribes, and stressing how much they don’t have in common. (Perversely, well off white people are still the dominant voices speaking on behalf of “marginalized groups”). So much of what ails Americans today is true across class lines, but we will not address those things, and will call anyone who attempts it some word synonymous with “immoral”. And forget about talking to people where they are. The dominant tool of persuasion among liberals today is telling anyone who doesn’t already agree with me what an awful person they are. Even if it’s true (and I watch liberals miss the mark with this constantly) awful people still get tI vote. The liberals doing this end up dominating most conversational spaces, even though they’re a small group even among Democrats and, again, overwhelmingly well off white people.
Watching all these protesters doing almost nothing in the way of organizing to get specific policy changes, even in cities that really are dominated by Democrats, breaks my freaking heart. But it’s impossible to organize now, or to even do things like internally curb violence or property damage (to help!) are impossible. The mainstream press has a taboo on even speaking of such things, or on suggesting ways that the movement might get results.
Sorry to go on so, it’s a thing that I’m passionate about obviously. I don’t see any way to end this cycle. We have a culture that refuses to hear dissent, a pop culture that refuses to speak to anyone other than this type of liberal. Biden has stayed away from this nonsense, mostly. But the next Trump won’t be an incompetent moron. I think that people are going to keep using the ballot box to push back on the liberal cultural consensus, because it’s the only way they can. And most people who need help will continue getting nothing much at all.
I am a librarian. Once we were passionate supporters of library service to labor. We had a newsletter. We had a big group of members. Since about 1970 interest diminished until now we have one award that recognizes libraries that collect labor materials, but no big megaphone and hard to get volunteers for this one committee. The working class is not a priority. As you say we have many things we care about--but they are so many things with no overarching direction so people are in so many different focused small groups (except Intellectual Freedom but even that has boundaries now). And I agree, the violent protests have not netted a direction that anyone can see. When the Murrah building was destroyed people came together. Now there seems to be no common cause.
Also, the battle as to whether some of these sites are publications or public forums rages on, perhaps that is why some have done away with the comment section? I had heard that is part fo the reasoning.
Lovely post, Randall. What I hear in it, and in so many others in response to Matt's writing, is heartfelt sorrow for the passing of moderation and the liberties that moderate institutions protect. The death of moderation is what occurs when the rituals of addiction -- most notably, our massive state-sanctioned addiction to all things media and all things digital -- replace the meaningful rituals (like the family dinner table and the weekly day of rest) that once protected and promoted the quality of life. All addictions, regardless of the narcotic, steal our time and money and freedom.
Notably, moderation (not abstinence) is the opposite of addiction, and -- unfortunately -- no one ever got rich by selling less of anything (my life story for the past two decades). Meanwhile, the self-delusion of all addicts remains the same (again, regardless of the narcotic): We underestimate the power of the narcotic while we overestimate our power to resist it.
Of course, the biggest addicts in the age of default media addiction are those who live and work in the big media markets like New York, Washington DC, LA and the Greater San Francisco Bay Area (including the Silicon Valley) -- those who eat, sleep and breathe media. Thus the real battle is not between red versus blue per se. The real battle is between red-state media addicts who consume 15 hours of media each and every day versus blue-state media addicts who not only consume 15 hours of media each and every day, but also produce and profit from all the media consumed by everyone else. Call me crazy, but promoting the biggest addicts as the voice of reason in the age of default addiction seems to me nothing less than the height of folly and self-destructive behavior.
Remarkably, what I hear many of the posters herein say, in so many words, is that, in an age of polar extremes (by design), Trump has now emerged as the less extreme (more moderate) option...
A comedian in the UK addressed the issue pretty well. I'm surprised more people didn't pick up on it. He was talking about Brexit, but as far as liberals abandoning the working class, now calling us all racists or stupid if we don't immediately address our love for Biden, it's the same. If liberals don't seriously engage workers, we know who will. .... NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NffWa8ZlJkY
“The dominant tool of persuasion among liberals today is telling anyone who doesn’t already agree with me what an awful person they are.”
Honestly, I think you’re letting your own side off a little easy here. I’ve tried for the past couple of years to engage conservatives in a civil manner, but I’ve given up. It’s wearying to be told over and over again that one’s a “communist” - someone who wants to abolish all freedoms, confiscate all private property, and imprison or shoot anyone who resists - for supporting the kind of healthcare system that a country like Switzerland has.
Oh that’s not my side. I’ve always had no choice but to vote for Democrats. But “my side” owns the culture right now; the truly nutty conservatives do not typically have an impact on our lives. HR isn’t crafting policies to placate the right; Nike isn’t making commercials for them. The NY Times isn’t refusing to print things because they run counter to the right’s narrative. There are no mainstream TV shows and movies, everywhere, catering to the right. Its my “side” that owns the dominant conversation in this country. It’s my “side” that is supposed to drive progress, but won’t tolerate much in the way of actual ideas for achieving that. They seem perfectly fine with the status quo, so long as there are a few more brown faces in it. They’ve come to fall into the same trap as echo chamber conservatives did decades ago: if you disagree with them marginally, then you are their mortal enemy. Sexuality is a spectrum, and nothing else is. Two teams trapped in opposite bubbles yelling at one another, listening to no one else, while 60-80% of the population just loses hope is horrible for progress. But if your goal is to “stand athwart history yelling ‘Stop!’”, then this situation is pretty much your wet dream. I’m not on the conservative side and, frankly, they barely impact my life and I’m pretty much free to ignore them. Like most people in the US, my world is most circumscribed by my employer and the dominant culture around me. We know that the conservative people you can’t reach are a maximum of 40% of the country. We could win almost every election in the country if we would deign to reach out to the other 60% and think of ways to improve their lives. We are, resolutely, not going to do that; we’re going to try to shut them up. This is all wonderful for conservatives. Unfortunately
Dude, just say it. You know it’s the truth, and you know it’s time for it to be said straight laced and bare: in 2020, the Democratic Party is the party of the rich.
The rich want Chinese slaves. That’s it. Period, end of discussion. That takes out most of the educated labor force and most of the blue collar labor force. Whatever is left, gets taken out by imported immigration (legal and illegal).
It doesn’t matter how hostile China is, how much damage they inflict on the West (both economic and direct), or how totalitarian China behaves. The oligarchy wants obedient slaves and China has them.
On the issue of destroying labor, the Democrats have the Republicans beat hands down at this particular junction in history.
Let’s walk through this.
You are born with nothing in the middle of the country. You are told manufacturing is gone, and your only hope of success is going to college. So you get started. You major in STEM, which everyone says corresponds to a national shortage. You graduate. Contrary to public opinion, there is a ridiculous amount of competition. You have to compete with outsourced labor from China (slaves) and in-sourced labor from India (whose immigration status is contingent on keeping their job). You will be unemployable by the time you hit 40, unless you hit management. Who is the primary supporters of this regime? All the Democrats and half the Republicans. However, it’s the Democrats that use race and identity politics, which is infinitely more effective, than Rhino arguments on efficiency, etc. Also, unlike the left, there is enormous, real opposition of this scheme from the right.
Orite, so you don’t do Engineering. You major in the liberal arts and go to law school or business school. But you can’t go to any business school or law school because liberal elites think you are a piece of shit unless you go to elite schools. So you rack up 250k in loans and graduate from Columbia. You learned nothing at Columbia because liberal professors aren’t there to teach you, they are there to teach you “how to think,” and hey, they got to get paid some serious coin from Uncle Sam in the process (all guaranteed by the tax layers of course).
You graduate Columbia law school or business school with no real skills and you go to work for McKinsey or Cravath. YAY!!!! You are rich under the current tax code, which was written in the 40s and 50s and assumed stable and humane employment. You make 190k a year working 100 hours a week for people who absolutely hate their lives. Half your money goes to taxes because, hey, you are rich, so that 190k becomes 85k. You have to live in NYC or San Fran or DC for those jobs, so you pay another 40k in rent (and that’s cheap). You are down to 45k. You have to pay your loans off (3k a month minimum if you want them gone in under a decade). You are left with 10k. You rich bastard! If you manage to survive working like that for a decade, you have a zero net worth you rich bastard and maybe you can have what an autoworker in 1965 had by the time you are 60. 99 percent burn out and have nothing.
Orite, so you don’t go to college, you get the message. You learn a trade. You learn a trade, but wait! An undocumented alien is willing to do your job for half the price and for cash compensation. This works for the undocumented alien because he or she can use the money to build a real life in his or her home country and he or she can have many expenses subsidized by the government because he or she isn’t declaring the cash as income. You aren’t down with this? You racist!
This is how social mobility ends.
Now are both parties complicit on the tax front? Absolutely. Is Joe Biden going to raise taxes on billionaires? Absolutely not. Is Donald Trump going to raise taxes on billionaires? Absolutely not. Is Joe Biden going to accelerate outsourcing and maybe even provide tax benefits for outsourcing? Absolutely. Is Joe Biden going to increase taxes on “rich” W-2 minions working 100 hours a week, up to their eyeballs in debt, and making 150-300k a year in the most expensive parts of the country where that income barely affords you 600sqft of living space? Absolutely. Is Donald Trump going to tax the minions like this or outsource like crazy? Absolutely not. Is he not going to do this because he’s a nice guy? No, he just knows the country is literally over (and his dynasty along with it) if we keep enriching a hostile foe at the country’s expense.
Are Rhinos just as disgusting as Democrats? Absolutely. The pandemic proves this. We just bailed out the banks, the rich, etc. in spectacular fashion, and these assholes are complaining about sending the serfs some sheckles to the serfs so they can avoid bankruptcy.
At the end of the day though, there is no future when the employer class can demand that the Western workforce be relegated to the status of concentration camp workers (that’s what’s going on in China). Rhinos tell me this is good for me because [fill in the blank bullshit trickle down economics theory], and I laugh at them, and everyone else laughs at them. Democrats tell me that if I don’t like this, I’m a racist and everyone doesn’t laugh at that...
So yeah, the Democrats might be in for a rude awakening in November or maybe not. But if Uncle Joe wins, this country deserves what it gets. Let him outsource the entire fucking country so his son can get kickbacks and have orgies. The country ultimately deserves what it deserves.
One final note, if you think we are divided now, just wait a few more months until someone, probably on the right, decides to fire bomb the last taboo: public sector employees. Rhinos tell me cops are underpaid. Democrats tells me teachers are underpaid. What I know is that George Floyd’s killer has a vested pension worth in excess of a million dollars. What I know is that the public sector in the blue cities is vastly overpaid to its private sector counterparts, and what I know is that since they are completely insulated from the economic consequences of this virus and outsourcing, both a consequence of unfettered globalization, they flat out don’t give a shit about the millions of small businessss fighting to survive. I also know that that’s why they have no problem enforcing these lockdown orders with such callous hubris. I also know that the billionaires don’t pay their salaries because they don’t pay taxes, but the private sector minions battling for survival are on the hook for pensions and benefits that dwarf what’s available in the private sector (because of the private sector).
The party is just getting started no matter who wins in November.
Well done. I hate to be that guy, but a couple of points. The Democrats and Republicans agree on almost everything of importance. And the elites are worldwide; there are oligarchs in China too. But your description of oligarchs wanting to create a vast worker pool that spans continents is dead on. Financialized capital is frictionless and crosses borders at a keystroke. Labor on the other hand will be controlled in ghettos. This is the grotesque outcome of capitalism itself, or at least our current form of it.
As far as the election, I think the Democrats will expect everyone to settle down now that the Orange Monster they created and hyperventilated over is gone. They will be wrong because, as we all know, their leadership has no idea what goes on in the so-called real world.
That was an absolutely awesome summing up. It leads to the conclusion that the young white people in the streets, whether they already know it or not, are beginning a class struggle from the bottom to resist the long established class struggle from the top.
But I think the fire bomb you mention has already been thrown. If we are to avoid fascism we must defund the police ASAP.
I beg to differ. These young people (of all races and creeds, and whether they know it or not) are funded by billionaires whose sole priority is to sow chaos so globalism can continue unencumbered. In other words, they are initiating a race war to distract from the class war waged by the oligarchy against the masses (that’s why the corporations are paying BLM leadership millions).
It is conceivable that you are right. Where I live I don't think anyone has even done a demonstration, except there was a cavalcade of people in cars blowing their horns, so I can't be sure what is on their minds. However it is hard to believe that most young people don't know very well that they've been screwed, and that they don't resent it.
I shouldn't have said "young white people". It is all those people. This is a general uprising of the n*****s, and the black n*****s no doubt have much useful experience to share.
I beg to differ a bit: 1) My undocumented workers have NEVER charged half of what citizens charge!! Indeed, next time I have my house cleaned, I’ll be using Americans rather than my undocumented ladies. Why? The Americans are CHEAPER! 2) At most, my undocumented workers charge a tiny percentage less than Americans. There is so much work here for everybody, right now, that both documented and undocumented seem to be doing really well...at least where I live. 3) Life is often not as B and W as u describe. That Columbia grad lawyer’s grandpa dies, leaving him enough to pay off half his student debt. He runs into a buddy from college who lucked out on a rent stabilized apt. and asks him to be his room mate. They need no car cause they have good public transportation. He works at a huge Manhattan firm for 5 years. Now, his loans are paid off and he can afford to get his own place. He continues doing great at the firm, eventually, he’s made a junior partner. He meets a successful female attorney from another firm who has just made partner. She’s an only child of a CT investment banker and her parents are recently deceased. She’s used the estate her folks left her to buy an apt. on the UWS. They marry. He moves into her place. At a party he learns there is an opening to teach at Columbia Law School, even though he could make more money at his firm. He decides to leave the firm and to teach at his alma mater. He has a wife, an apt. no student loan debt, and a job offering him not only a salary but lots of free time. See, I can do that too.
I’d be shocked if you aren’t a boomer. The outlier nature of the story aside, what gives it away is “at a party he learns there is an opening to teach at Columbia law school.”
I’d explain to you why this is virtually impossible, but I’d be speaking to deaf ears (or writing for blind eyes).
In any event, outliers don’t make a society. The kind of extreme outlier you just described is possible in most countries on the planet. What makes a society great is a strong, stable and functioning middle class. A strong, stable and functioning middle class is inconsistent with globalization AND (simultaneously) mass immigration.
Regarding undocumented aliens, your experience is indeed vastly different than my experience (with extensive contacts in both the restaurant industry and the construction industry). My experience is that the undocumented aliens are extremely hard working people, but they are paid in cash in order to take advantage of the welfare system. They don’t do this because they are had people, they do it because that’s the only way they can survive.
As a disaffected lefty I'm ashamed for being part of the crowd that said "How could they vote against their own self-interests?" Fuck identity politics!
In fairness to both of you, Bush was genuinely a terrible president (and I'm a conservative). The Iraq War was a train wreck, and everything he touched seemed to go awry.
Dubya, clown dumbass of the treasonous Bush clan. Not interested in hearing anything from that family until they disown Comrade Neil Bush of the CCP...
Deeply bizarre how many "liberals" are falling all over themselves to praise Bush in contrast to Trump. I genuinely dislike both but Bush was the torture president. He sanctioned fucking torture! He wasn't more humane or decent---he was just less gauche and embarrassing than Trump.
I am a strong civil libertarian on the right. In my view, we've had three devastating attacks on our norms of individual rights and constitutional process in the last 20 years: (1) authorization of torture under Bush; (2) the claim that the government can seize a US citizen on US soil and deny habeas corpus and all due process rights if they label him a terrorist (Jose Padilla), again under Bush; (3) the attempt to destroy and remove a duly elected president through the Russian collusion hoax manufactured by political operatives working with allies in the FBI and intelligence services. It's still not clear if our constitutional republic will survive the last one.
I went to a protest over the weekend (in Kansas) which opened with a round of speakers. Everything was going like normal with speaker after speaker reciting wokeist cant. Then this guy from a local socialist group (yeah, I guess we have that) got up and made a speech through the lens of class. He was critical of identity politics (which had been on full display in all the speeches before his) for its divisiveness and the way in which it ends up doing to us exactly what elite propaganda does to us; it prevents us from seeing our common interests and banding together. He called for getting past that so we could get on to the business of starting a real revolution. This guy got, by far, the biggest pop of everyone when he was done, and this from a crowd of confirmed wokesters. I thought that was interesting, heartening, and maybe a little instructive. Maybe it shows that identitarianism, no matter how strong it's looking, is fading and enough people are starting to smell the bullshit in time to turn things around.
I'm a knuckle-dragging conservative, but I'll take a class warrior over a woke identitarian any day of the week. I can talk to a socialist. We're really just disagreeing about how to get the most stuff to the most people. But the wokesters are preaching hate based on your immutable characteristics. They should really go for bowling and beers with David Duke and Richard Spencer; they have so much in common.
Sure, but there are many other signs that a path out of the cave has been discovered and more and more people are filing out.
I think the use of identity politics to kill the Sanders campaigns in both cycles woke a lot of people up to the fact that it can and will be used to thwart genuine reform, that it is in fact a tool for accomplishing just that. Plus some influential people have lately coalesced around a pretty powerful and convincing critique which is gaining traction (not as much as one would like, but it's something).
For sure. You look online at the discourse and it seems an impossible task. Just hate, hate, hate. But then you go out in the real world and people are pretty damn reasonable. Just show them respect, listen to what they're saying, and don't assume the worst of them and you can, without doing too much work, get to what you hold in common and go from there.
I had a discussion with an avowed conservative neighbor, a meat-cutter at Costco, that was more interesting than most of what I see in the NYT. He said "You can't just say 'Orange man bad,' and expect that to work." I agreed. Then we bonded over our dislike of Democrats, hahaha
Yeah, not sure running "Not Trump" on the ticket is gonna inspire an especially wide turnout.
Man, the best conversations I'm having these days come when I get a chance to talk to conservatives. It's such a strange thing talking with liberal friends and having to be super careful to cover all my woke bases, whereas with conservatives I feel completely free. (And it's nice having outlets to vent about Dems). I grew up thinking this was the side of free and protected expression and to watch it mutate the way it has has been totally surreal.
Could not agree more. I'm new to the political scene, and always considered myself a democrat or liberal. But I value a conversation, and a sense of humor. Both of which seem to be hard to find from many of my liberal friends.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm just not engaging with more interesting democrats, or not listening to enough democratic liberal podcasts, etc. But it feels like that isn't the case.
It's the strangest thing, but it wasn't long ago that practically all the funniest, most charming and interesting people you'd find would be somewhere on the left. They're still around, but I think they tend to be older folks who have lived through some shit. People who don't know of any other world but the one in the internet age, I'm afraid, have been poisoned by something. (Large generalization of the "kids these days" variety, I know, but still).
Thank you for more insightful writing. Our leaders (government) are failing the American people. As a middle class family, we struggle with high taxes, bums and junkies in our neighborhoods and the decline of our ever more expensive education and healthcare system. My family feels politically homeless. Laws are enforced inconsistently. We are socially liberal, churchgoing and volunteer in our community. We abhor Trump's rhetoric but hate the Dems continuous condescension that we are somehow racist and/or selfish for loving our imperfect country and wanting out-of-control government spending to be reigned in. We are actually trying to preserve a worthwhile country for the future.
I get it, you sound like a good person, but please be careful about condescension going the other way. Calling people “unpatriotic” or “not real Americans” or “communists” simply because they disagree about specific policies is also a form of condescension. The right has been doing this to its opponents for quite some time, certainly much longer than the last few election cycles. It’s just become a lot more strident recently.
And they never stop. The Covid 'narrative' is one that is an exquisite divider. Watching John Lewis' funeral was an exercise in watching everyone do everything that we proles are not allowed to do, while the Elite ignore what all can see and say nothing about the obvious double, or triple, standard. I am a NYC resident, teaching in a NY public high school, and I can see what Mr. Taibbi is talking about with laser-like clarity. Everything written above is only getting more severe. Ever try explaining to a 15yr old black girl why she wasn't allowed to bury her older brother 6 weeks ago, but pols packed into a church are ok? If your answer to that question is lots of word salad, you're missing the point.
It always amazes me to hear journalists refer to the New York Times as if its influence on the body politic is overwhelming, when, in fact, virtually nobody in the USA reads it. The Times' influence outside a myopic elite is almost zero, and now that they have embraced Nicole Hannah-Jones's hatred for white people and US history as official editorial policy, their continued irrelevance and decline is assured.
Not on target. NYT science, books, certain other sections, are best in the country. It's only government, politics, and world news that have been bastardized beyond recognition -- so far, anyway.
And even there the news is quite dumbed down. They do have occasional articles from a physics and astronomy reporter that are passably good, but nothing else that I think of. They let their best environment reporter Revkin go. Tn general the science stinks, as do the lowbrow book reviews. The business section is the best stuff in the paper.
I read it. It costs a dollar per week which makes sense for poor people like me. There are certain well defined topics chosen by the Owner where the news and editorials are outrageous lies, but otherwise it is not too bad, and it contains some good writing and interesting investigative reporting. I get to put my two cents in by making comments on much of the material. What else would you suggest?
If they hate white people I guess I haven't noticed because I hate them even more. I am said to be white but I don't identify with it. I hardly identify with "people". They are a scurvy lot. Including you apparently.
My sister and her husband fall into this coastal, liberal elite. Both are in an absolute freakout over Trump and have the nastiest POV of people NOT from the Northeast or CA or a major city.
Both think black people should be arming themselves.
Neither one of them has EVER lived outside the wealthy little bubble they reside in.
I on the other hand spent 6 yrs in the military and I have lived all over the country. Then, my work has taken me to a lot of other places like Iowa and New Mexico and Texas.
I am absolutely stunned by the difference between my sisters perceptions and the realities that I have experienced.
Why shouldn't black people arm themselves? White racists are armed up big time. Of course the cops wouldn't stand for it. We would have to get rid of either black people or cops. There are a lot more black people than cops.
No kidding. In most major cities blacks are heavily represented on the police force-and for the most part behave like cops-ie-they see “blue” before they see black or white. There are plenty of great black cops and bad apples as well.
This squares with what I get when I discuss issues with my conservative friends in my own age group. We've had the political choice between Republican or Democrat framed as a religious one where we have to justify it at a moral level and the media is all too willing to play both sides of the game to alleviate this moral quandary and give us the needed justifications either via outright lies or more subtle messaging. It works, we've become content to deride and demean each other over meaningless trivialities and to stop talking about the things we really care about.
When I talk to a conservative outside of the talking points pushed by the media we start to find common ground pretty quickly on a variety of issues.
1. No one should go hungry in this country.
2. No one should be homeless in this country.
3. We need to care for the mentally ill and disabled.
4. No one should have to work until they die with no hope of retirement benefits.
5. Everyone should be able to get affordable healthcare.
6. No one should have to live in a polluted environment.
These are issues that everyone can generally agree on, the only thing we can't seem to agree on is who is responsible and how to fix them. The fear instilled in the public about these issues and their solutions is palpable. People fear for their own livelihood, because we live so precariously. Even before the pandemic one serious illness or the loss of a key job in an area with few of them and you can go from living a nice middle class lifestyle to being homeless in the span of a few months.
The responsibility for these issues lies with those that have the fiscal and political power to change them. The politicians and corporations that keep the status quo in play and keep the fear alive.
Bernie Sanders was vilified by the media on both sides and yet when I talk to 2016 Trump voters many of them saw Bernie as a legitimate choice over Trump in this election and certainly over Biden. By the time the primary was decided (though crazily I've not even gotten to vote in my state) Bernie had been labeled a racist, a sexist, a rich elitist and a tool of the gun lobby and that's just on the liberal side.
Then the pandemic occurred and proved that everything he had been saying, for decades over and over again, was correct.
Yet here we sit with the unenviable choice of two aged incompetents peddling whatever bullshit they think people want to hear. One of them doubling down on his natural ability for passing the blame to whoever is within reach and the other scooping up large swaths of Bernie's playbook in a replay of Mr Hope and Change himself with the same end game of keeping the status quo in place.
I understand the nihilism of those willing to vote for Trump and burn the country to ground just to spite the Democrats for their hubris in playing the same fucked up game all over again, but I get the feeling that those people aren't going hungry right now or alternatively, to avoid going hungry, going to work every day wondering if they are going to catch Covid-19 and die.
My suspicion is that you miss the distinction when you state your "things we all agree on" above.
Many conservatives agree with those statements but see them as a call for the system to be set up in such a way that individuals have the opportunity to achieve those outcomes. This is certainly true of 1-5. Whereas for you I suspect, 1-5 are a call for the government to provide those things directly rather than creating a system where individuals have the opportunity to provide for themselves.
In addition, most of those are subject to words that are not specific enough to show real agreement. The definition of polluted is hardly fixed since some consider CO2 a pollutant (it isn't). The same would be true of words like "affordable."
Few Trump supporters see Bernie as a legitimate choice though no doubt you can find some. The Pandemic didn't prove anything that Bernie was saying was correct. This time, he ran on $100 trillion in new spending over 10 years...that's nearly tripling federal outlays with not a hope in heck of paying for it. And he's dragging old uncle Joe to the same crazy place.
Joe has no plan to fix the income situation in this country. Trump's push to repatriate manufacturing is probably the best of a series of bad ideas to address some very thorny issues.
If I wanted to participate in the same repetitive bullshit where we parse out terminology and meaning into whatever leads us to the same old bullshit talking points I'd go over to Fox News or the NYT comment sections.
Doesn't matter... what does matter is that Political Economist laid out why and you didn't engage with their argument. I think you're missing things, and when you build a track record of civility I'll be happy to engage about my thoughts. If I want to see people calling each other's ideas BS I'll go to the NYT or Fox News comments sections.
Political Economist laid out some assumptions about what I am and who I am and how I view the world without knowing anything about me and then used that to frame his whole response. So, I assumed, not knowing him, that he is a gigantic asshole and not worthy of a real response.
I said "you're not worthy of my response until you're civil", and your response is saying uncivilly that I'm not worthy of your response. I couldn't agree more!
Great article, except for one thing. If you honestly think the anti-lockdown movement is about "MAGA fanatics going maskless and dying of Covid-19 to own the libs" you need to get the hell out of your bubble. It's not about owning libs, it's about pushing back against the biggest top-down ordered upheaval in regular people's lives most of us have ever experienced: affecting most people far more than 9/11, the mortgage crisis, ISIS or the Iraq war. We were not just told to wear a mask at the grocery store and otherwise get on with our lives. Small businesses were forced to shut down and watch their money get vacuumed up by Amazon and the big box retailers. Schools, libraries, sports games, churches, all forcibly closed down. People have been told they are selfish murderers for wanting to visit friends, have been literally arrested for going out to walk their dog after testing positive, or arrested for breaking quarantine orders after traveling to another state regardless of whether they were infected. All this over a disease with a
.04% death rate and most of that in badly managed nursing homes... People have been told by their local government that singing in church is banned, then told by media asshats that they're really just mad because they're racists or worship wall street or are "dying" for a friggin haircut. Suicide rates have gone way up since lockdown started but yeah, let's pretend the anti-lock down protesters are just frivolously unconcerned about human life...and anyone who doesn't trust the corrupt Big Pharma apparatus that stands to make billions from mandated vaccines as opposed to hydroxychloroquine or herd immunity, is "anti science"... I have been to many Reopen America protests since this whole shit started. They attract mostly conservatives but also a good number of Bernie Dems like me, as well as Libertarians and people who don't much like any party. Biden wants a national mask mandate. From the point of view of most Americans wanting to have a normal life with school, church etc and not be under constant surveillance, Donald "kids in cages" Trump is actually the more pro-freedom candidate. Which is crazy, but that's where we are right now. A friend of mine is seriously considering just voting for Kanye West instead.
If it helps, I've been very critical of those who said it was okay to go out and protest for BLM but then also criticized anti-lockdown protesters. I do understand that the anti-lockdown protests for a lot of people are about re-opening businesses to put food on the table. And I'm against censoring material suggesting alternatives to lockdowns. But I don't get not wearing a mask as a political statement. I'm close to several doctors who treat this disease and... let's just say it scares the hell out of me and I would be happier if everyone was on the same page about it.
I think there's a lot more that warrants investigation and discussion on this front, though.
A lot of people protesting for the abolishing of police forces seemed to have no problem wielding state power against people who violated lockdowns. Police are good when they punish the right people, as long as they don't kill too many black men on camera?
I think there's also a really scary implicit part of this argument, too: What's the acceptable number of people who get sick and die, and who determines that? It's obviously nothing new that people get sick, and sometimes they die from that illness -- why is it earth-shattering if that number is 0.5%, or 2%, instead of .03%? These are all hypothetical numbers I'm pulling from thin air, of course. The numbers are always changing and people spend days arguing about it, but at the end of the day they're always drawing on arbitrary distinctions by saying, "Mortality rate from this disease is X% and that (warrants/does not warrant) this lockdown." If COVID-20 (or whatever is next) has a 0.03% mortality rate compared to 19's 0.05% mortality rate, should we do less of a lockdown, and who decides that? This feels like a modern, data-driven approach that has truly scary implications to me when used as precedent down the road. Should I get arrested if I go out in public with a common cold? People die from that too, but is that number palatable enough that nobody gives a shit? Is the "new normal", as will be propagated by media and people in power, to stay inside when I have a cold and deny myself fresh air (and a speedier, more pleasant recovery) because I'm a threat to public safety and I need to be mindful of my bacterial footprint (or whatever godawful name people want to give it)? What should the punishment be for disobeying such rules?
Likewise, if wearing a mask reduces your chance of getting/transmitting germs by 48% but wearing gloves AND a face covering made with material X reduces your chances by 73% (again, hypothetical numbers), should the people reducing their chances by 73% look down their nose at the 48%-ers and force them to wear gloves and only buy acceptable face coverings? Which % reduction of germ transmission/receipt is the correct one, and what's the punishment for not adhering to that? I think this ties in largely with the "scolds" you've mentioned before when talking about the new acceptable method of online activism, because in my experience there's no shortage of people in this world who will take opportunities presented like this to scold anybody else who doesn't comply with the latest arbitrary definition of Acceptability. Because these are all arbitrary distinctions being drawn about what's the acceptable rate of reduction, and what's an unacceptable rate of reduction. Why are people not allowed to choose the rate of reduction they're comfortable with? And who decides the punishment for people who don't meet that reduction?
Will people stop living like Howard Hughes when the right experts tell them it's ok to do so? It seems like permanent damage is being done to the collective psyche of humanity, which is scary enough to me, but if the public switches back to "regular" mode at the command of Experts and their state/local executive branch, isn't that also uniquely terrifying? It feels like Radiohead's "Fitter Happier" manifesting before my eyes as people adopt the prescribed way of life with minimal fuss. For people who reject this kind of control over our lives, there isn't a political party in sight that remotely cares about us.
So much is being changed in the name of safety and I see so many un-quantifiable, non-economic reasons to reject that, even if it means getting a disease that might kill you (or wreak long-term damage on your body). I know this disease has a slightly higher chance of killing me, but I'm ok with that risk because quality of life is more important to me than a long & safe life. I want to see live music again and be in the pit at a show, surrounded by other sweaty music lovers, even if that leads to me getting sick. There's no quantifying this, other than me telling people that sharing & reveling in music is the only reason I haven't offed myself yet. Are politicians & scientists actually able to deny me (and other people who feel like me) that basic human joy because the "moment" doesn't allow for it? Apparently they are, because I have no idea when I'll get to enjoy live music again here in Southern California, but am I just supposed to be ok with that? Do musicians now only perform at the convenience of state & local authorities, as advised by disease control experts?
As a bigger philosophical question, do people fear strangers and their germs when experts tell them to? Much of America's horrific cultural changes & atrocities came from fear of strangers -- do we really need more new reasons to be afraid of strangers? We're arming ourselves to protect against home invaders, an oppressive police force, terrorists, or undocumented immigrants. We're turning schools into fortresses with armed guards, metal detectors, and active shooter drills. This pandemic response feels like just the latest in fear-based modern developments that makes life just a little more miserable and undignified. I can't quantify these things, so do they not matter?
I'm truly sorry for the length here, but I think it hits an extremely broad range of concerns that cross political affiliations (and also exist outside any established political parties) and I think these kind of questions are things you touch on more than most anybody else I've read in journalism. Any time I've brought my point of view to a discussion, my friends (most of whom are mainstream Democrats) instantly align me with Trump and the MAGA crowd, of course. Or, they just call me a dumb hippie.
This comment perfectly captures what I'm feeling about the mainstream covid narrative, which itself seems to be the product of a relatively small clique of elites and so goes hand-in-hand with the original post.
I'm not talking about an actual conspiracy theory here but about the big-media/big-tech echo chamber that is seeded by, for example, New York "journalists" who have literally not left their tiny apartments since March.
Matthew says: "I know this disease has a slightly higher chance of killing me, but I'm ok with that risk because quality of life is more important to me than a long & safe life."
Somehow this attitude, which all of us share to some extent or we wouldn't bother getting up in the morning, has become unspeakably gauche in the last few months. And behaviors that, in February, would have rightly been seen as signs of mental illness, are now so normalized that anyone who questions them is vilified or dismissed as an anti-science crank.
I'm not talking so much about the simple precaution of wearing a mask, but about the layers and layers of incoherent covid security theater that we're all expected to play along with under the rubric of 'erring on the side of caution'. The mask is just a highly visible symbol of all of that.
The problem is not that Matthew decides he's ok with the risk - that's fine, it's that Matthew can make others sick and that if Matthew gets sick and has to be hospitalized a lot of people have to take care of him putting themselves at risk. His choice can potentially take away other people's choices. As Bernie said, not me - us. This is all about taking care of each other.
I think things truly got out of hand when people felt it was within their concern & rights to tell other people whether they can go outside and socialize or not. If that most basic act of humanity is deemed dangerous, for any amount of time (and we’re on month Five of it) and enough people go along with that, that’s absolutely insane to me. Same with feeling threatened because somebody’s standing within 6 feet of me and that increases the chance of infection by x% compared to when they’re standing within 7 feet of me. That’s not the kind of world I want to live in, even for a day, so why should I help perpetuate it?
In what part of the world do you live where you're still told you can't go out and socialize?
It seems this virus has spotlighted two very disturbing characteristics of our country: our government's inept and indifferent response to all but corporate interests, and the remarkable selfishness of our individuals citizens, who see the imposition of wearing a mask or cleaning one's hands more frequently or maintaining a certain basic distance from strangers as Gulag like, even as they have lived in a country whose government has been collecting their every electronic musing, with seemingly no concern about the latter.
I was infected by the virus and was sick for 16 days, but not severely enough, at least as far as breathing, to go to a hospital, and by self medicating and rest, seem fine today, although it is possible my concentration, which was starting to slip before I got sick, as I'm 73, has worsened somewhat. I do believe the fatality rate is lower than we're led to believe, since we've had insufficient testing to know the actual number infected, but the fact our death toll is so much higher than other countries, seems to spotlight a basic immature and selfish outlook that, perhaps to our not being subjected to large scale calamities that so many other countries have had in the past, we lack the ability to self deny for even a limited time. And no, five months, even when the F is capitalized, is not a long period of time.
Right now, we do not know enough about the virus and especially it's long term effects to make a judgment on the proper response, but common sense says taking precautions and considering how our actions impact others seems not too much to ask.
If we can justify our actions after 9-11, when less than 3,000 people were killed, that caused us to invade countries that had nothing to do with it, killing and displacing millions and spending $7 trillion in the process, it seems the measures we've taken due to the virus(and I don't count the government's poor priorities and fumbling response as part of that) are not out of line.
At some point, a final decision will have to be made, weighing the deaths from the virus versus the social/economic costs, but that time is too soon, in my view.
Matthew you don't want to join the herd and neither do I, but I think you are taking your self-centered attitude to an unworkable extreme. I mean if you just felt like shit if you couldn't go out and kill someone every few weeks, do you think the world should take pity on you and let you go ahead with it?
I guess to me I think If we had just right at the start taken the view that - ok, this isn't what we want but we're in this together and the way to kill this virus is to deny it hosts so lets just go 100% all in and wear the masks, stay home and get it over with. We might be where other countries are - mostly open and back to at least close to normal. Instead we sort of closed just enough to trash the economy meanwhile doing nothing to prepare a plan for reopening, testing or dealing with outbreaks so we're in a no man's land where we have a mess of approaches - more and more deaths, mass unemployment, people at risk of losing their homes and a virus running rampant. You can't do anything with one foot out the door - that's no way to succeed at anything. The ridiculous thing to me is that this is temporary. We just have to make the best of the situation we're given and then we move on. The main thing to remember is that the virus is setting the rules. No point to arguing with a virus.
Driving a car puts others potentially at risk. Do you have and use a car? Lockdowns hurt people too. Depending on your situation, you may not relate to that, but I need these lockdowns to end--and much sooner than waiting for a vaccine to be broadly administered.
Lots of things we do put others at risk but it's a trade off. I do have a car and drive it as little as I can get away with. I do understand the damage done by lockdowns - Growing up my family had a small business - We would have lost everything had we lost that business so I completely empathize with small businesses. If you read all my comments, my point is we had the lockdown which was completely wasted because unlike other countries, we did not get the numbers of infected down to a low enough level before we started re-opening. The government did not use the time of the lockdown to procure and provide PPE or testing materials. We did not use the time to come up with a national plan for reopening. We did not use the time to come up with a plan for schools. The government did not use its vast resources to keep workers, businesses and local governments afloat in any clear and sustainable way. What we did do is turn the lockdowns into yet another basis for fighting among ourselves. The virus doesn't care. We have lost over 150,000 people to this thing and it's just getting started. As I've said repeatedly, if wearing a mask, socially distancing and washing our hands keeps people safe and alive- why not? You're right in that we can't just sit and wait for a vaccine that may never come but we also can't just throw up our hands and do nothing.
Those who are afraid should take whatever measures they wish. I think there's very little chance of contracting the virus if one wears a mask, gloves, uses hand sanitizer, keeps distant and avoids crowds. But I'm not afraid, so let me live a normal life. I shouldn't have to give up what makes life worth living because of someone else's fear.
It's not a matter of fear and it should be obvious all the above precautions you mention are only going to work as a means to stop the virus long term if everyone does them. It's called working together and caring about each other enough to temporarily curtail some activities. I think people way over think this - you take the precautions then basically go about your life taking other detours when necessary. it's not that hard. Accepting the virus is the same as accepting reality.
Mmmm, no, it’s also been about pushing tens of millions into poverty.
Whose infecting who at this point? Vaccines did not accomplish herd immunity, as was initially promised during lockdowns, nor are they any more permanent or effective in immunity as was media-sold. PCR tests create scary positive “cases” w/o a shred of evidence they can select out C-19 or any current infection therefrom.
Taibbi personally declared his tied-to-the-intended narrative: FEAR. Such fear affects all animals alike: it narrows vision, shunts vital functions into unhealthy patterns, and causes snapping and snarling at targeted enemies, like unvaxxed. How sanctimonious are our politically elected who have been rewarded by exemptions from product that has no list of ingredients and no long term known consequences.
You are not a dumb hippie. You are clear-headed and thoughtful. I've read your comment several times today and it really hits home for me. I keep saying to my friends "We're holding onto life at the expense of living". This virus isn't going to kill me. I might kill myself if this shit continues. Not trying to be dramatic, but when all pleasure is drained from life, what reason is there to live?
I hear ya. I’d normally go to a coffee shop after work twice a week for their open mic nights. Sometimes I’d play but most of the time it was just to listen to a ton of random people from all over and, good or bad, it always inspired me and motivated me when work was nothing but a drag. Now the best I can hope for is that they won’t close down before they get to start back up again, which is god-knows-when. Work and life in general were getting too overwhelming for me before I started going to that place regularly, and it really did save me from complete despair. I don’t have an encouraging way to end this comment other than to reciprocate your feelings and hope you do alright :)
Well said Matthew and Matt Taibbi!
Now that the state governments have published their arbitrary and ever changing COVID edicts for 5 months now it is beginning to sink in that they will never end. These unscientific edicts that seemed comical and annoying at first (unless you are an enemy of the state small business owner), become the death knell for our culture and civilization as they extend indefinitely. Regardless of whether you believe the consipracy theories regarding pedophiles in Washington and Hollywood running our government and media, the distrust of both has finally broken the barrier between the economically uber-disadvantaged left and right. Most will accept any outlandish rumor over the government and MSM lies.
More of my liberal friends are questioning things they should have been questioning for years (USA economic solvency and Big Pharma ownership of Medicare for all) ) but instead of becoming more charitable to fellow disenfranchised plodders like themselves they recede into the hate of everyone and anything MAGA as if Trump's defeat will make this COVID nightmare dissipate instantly. Reluctantly, I will vote for Kanye or some other 3rd party hopeless, only because it will make the mentally and emotionally ill TDS friends and family feel better for a few days. They need it. And when President Sleepy Joe wins he will have a half life of 2 or 3 weeks before the FBI, CIA, BLM, Antifa, and CNN will turn on the hate in the hope that Kamala will benefit before the swearing in. God help her from there!I will be praying!
ANTIFA and BLM? Seriously?
How comical.
I was dead serious. Notice how Joe is withdrawing from all debates? He has already agreed to resign within a year of his election in favor of his VP. He is unable to speak or function acceptably. In addition, when his dementia and past backing of the 3 strikes laws is evident to all, his unacceptability to the left will cancel him. Not to mention his singlehanded success in stripping students of all loan bankruptcy protections.He is a placeholder for the dem donors who will
call their chips as soon as the VP seems serviceable.
Matthew, I think you raise several interesting points.
Regarding differentiation between this disease and other common diseases (i.e., seasonal flu), one huge differentiator is that our hosptial system has, over time, come into equilibrium with normal annual cycles of "common" disease. The occurance of illnesses requiring hospitalization are likely consistent and predictable, save natural or manmade acute disasters (9/11). The real issue with COVID is that, if left unchecked, we will have a HUGE influx of hospitalizations that quickly overrun our hospital capacity, as was the case in NYC and Italy. Living in a first world country, we should not knowingly embark on a mad adventure that will lead to infirmed individuals dying on sidewalks outside of the hospital. Keeping all of this in mind, I can easily rationalize a SHIFT in our behaviors to prevent this from happening. Examples include the use of masks, outdoor seating at restaurants, no large indoor gatherings. These are frankly not big inconveniences for MOST of the population. At the same time, the government needs to have a fucking plan on how to accomodate rapid testing responses. Other modern, non-authoritarian countries have done it (Germany comes to mind).
Thanks for writing this, Matthew. I read all the way through and couldn't agree more.
Thanks Matthew, that helps me wrap my head around these issues. I'm a huge music fan and musician myself. Going to put on "FitterHappier"
I don't agree with not wearing a mask as a political statement that says "stick it to them". But not wearing a mask because one's opinion is along the lines that we should be like Sweden is entirely valid. Sweden's cases and deaths just approached zero, and I no longer believe that there is any possible outcome for the United States than "burn-through". Our prevention methods aren't sufficient to get Ro below 1. Simply not going to happen. New York has low spread because everyone in the groups that regularly intermingle got exposed already. California, Texas, etc will end up in the same place over a longer period of time. The question is does it take 2 months, and give Trump a shot at re-election, or 6 months?
1. As a first gen immigrat, I disagree on mask-less but I respect their right. Somehow this respect for individual choices is missing when it comes to masks but not abortion. (I'm pro choice as long as it's not late term so I think I'm consistent here.)
2. Another idea for you is to write on big tech censorship. The latest debate on HCQ is a great example. Youtube and FB delete any videos that support HCQ+zinc. To shut down a discussion in this fashion is insanity.
On Point 2: I agree that censorship is not a good plan. I can see it going down many dark roads - we have a lot to figure out here. As for this concept of a "discussion", I think that is off the mark. We are talking about medical sciences - discussions about medical science should be had in the medical community, not on Youtube. Untrained people should not be discussing this topic as if their opinions have any merit. Even most doctors are irrelevant to the discussion because they don't understand the biochemistry like researchers do. I am in a science field myself and understand how controversial certain topics can be, and how an outside observer may be misled by certain "expert" individuals. There are always experts whose opinions diverge from the "scientific consensus" but lay people should not really just pick and choose which scientist they listen to - it's too complicated for that. As an example, think about the tobacco lobby. They would have doctors testify in court that cigarettes weren't unhealthy. Those doctors were technically "experts, right? So how do you decide?
"I'm close to several doctors who treat this disease and... let's just say it scares the hell out of me".
How about no, let's not just say that. That's straight out of the big-media playbook that has left so many people oscillating helplessly between confusion, panic, and outrage throughout these bizarre 5 months:
Step 1: Tell a scary-sounding but utterly vague and question-begging anecdote
Step 2: Advise all (at least implicitly) to move on because there's nothing to see here, the experts have this figured out, and by the way did you hear that Europe already beat the virus you stupid mag-tard?
Step 3: Throw in a file photo of a body bag or someone wearing a hazmat suit or preferably both
To be fair you stopped at step 1, but to hell with the entire playbook. How about let's actually dig into the data, give serious hearings to contrarian experts like Levitt at Stanford and Gupta at Oxford, investigate the death counts, and try to understand what on earth is going on with this unprecedented world-wide freakout that has paved the way for a massive power and money grab by those who were already extraordinarily powerful and wealthy.
How anyone is not scared shitless of this disease is beyond me. Maybe they just haven't known anyone that died from it? My wife had a 49 year old friend who died of it and then my friend's elderly mom died of it. The reports coming out are that the disease can damage a variety of organs and in some cases leave even young healthy people debilitated, possibly permanently. There is so much unknown around the disease, but just the fact that 157k people, at last count, across the whole country have died from it and it has spread like wildfire should make people extremely cautious.
I do not disagree with you Harvey...but..
a) The outlook for a vaccine that is more than 50% effective is not great, at least in the near and midterm and maybe the long term
b) I have higher hopes for reliable treatments but my hopes would be higher if it were not so damn political
c) At some point we are going to have to get back to something like normal. We cannot isolate children and teens forever. Online learning may work for college kids but K-12? Got a 12 yr old, let me tell you, he is missing out on the most important part of his education or at least it is seriously degraded.
We cannot print money forever, at least not the way we have and I just cannot see Wall Street and the politicians they control agreeing to go full on MMT and let the Treasury just print it. So, people are going to need to work. Even old people like me need to play or go insane.
Humans have managed to live with all kinds of highly contagious and deadly diseases from Diptheria to Plague for millennia. We have been fortunate to live through a golden age. It might be over. It probably IS over. Never mind that more and more of our antibiotics are no longer effective.
I have a sick feeling that we are once again heading into a time where we are going to have to live with horrible, communicable diseases and this is just the first.
As awful as it sounds, we may just have to get on with life, mitigate what we can and pray to God we and those we care about are lucky.
There are moments I wonder if God/Fate/Mother nature are just saying we have overpopulated and it is time to thin the herd.
This is one reason that I think cities are dead. One reason that people used to move out of the cities was to avoid exposure to plagues and diseases that were exacerbated by close contact. I think back as far as the Romans and the wealthy fleeing the city to their villas.
Just an anecdote..but..
I live south and west of DC about an hour, right on the border between Northern, densely populated, VA and central, rural VA. My 3 county health region has had a total of 580 cases and 8 deaths. You go north about 30 minutes to Fairfax and the are over 16,000 cases and something like 900 deaths. And, to be perfectly honest, most of my area has been not particularly good at the mask wearing and the social distancing. Not completely blown it off, but much more casual about it than closer in to the city.
I agree that pinning our hopes on a vaccine is a losing proposition. We can't stop everything forever.
A big problem is that our healthcare system is terrible. You can't tie healthcare to employment and keep a pandemic in check. You can't rely on states to have money available to suddenly come up with emergency supplies to combat something like this. The response at the federal level has to address the problem directly and coordinate the response. The borders between states are porous, there is no provision for keeping movement in check. When it comes to handling a pandemic the country has to be considered as one entity.
Yes, urban areas will be more prone to spread of the virus, but there is no place in this country that doesn't contact an urban area in some fashion at some point. If people were willing to wear masks everywhere it's likely that rural areas could be open by now.
The main problem with letting the chips fall where they may is that you will have bodies piling up in the streets by the time it is all over. People are all fine about risking their lives to the virus until they get sick, at which point they suddenly don't want to die and tie up hospital beds. We have an inadequate supply of both healthcare providers and facilities to handle this.
People keep pointing to Sweden as the way out, but Sweden has had over 5700 deaths compared to Norway, Denmark and Finland with a total of 1200 for all of them and Sweden's economy is still contracting by 6%. So, what's the advantage in letting people die?
Even if we assume a case fatality rate of .5% that's 1,640,000 dead here and if we don't flatten the curve that will happen extremely rapidly. The federal government right now is not directing the response appropriately in any way at all and Trump's psychotic Twitter rants don't help.
I agree regarding the tying of healthcare to employment.
The honest to God truth about this is just messy. Yes, Trump has not been helpful but there was never much he could do in any case. The fact is that it is up to the states to set shutdown practices. The CDC has not been up to this for at least ten years. (I worked there for a year) They have had so much mission creep that they have almost forgotten what their original reason for existing is. Trump did not offshore all of our PPE production or the production of 90% of our critical medicines. That started 20 yrs ago and has been nothing but encouraged by industry and lobbyists and so politicians because they though it would drive prices down. Same with durable medical equipment like ventilators. Those things could not change with the flip of a switch. Crony capitalism killed the economy. Ironic.
Trump did not tell the Chinese to lie and coverup and neither did he convince the WHO to tow the line. Remember, it was the WHO that believed the Chinese when they said that person to person transmission was highly unlikely. It was the Chinese that imprisoned doctors that spoke out and tried to warn people. Fauci went along. Trump did not control that.
Apart from the bully pulpet there really was nothing he could do directly. Even activating the defense production act was questionably legal but he did it.
No, this mess is systemic and has been building for decades.
Has Trump been helpful? Not particularly, but being an ass does not make him responsible for a lack of national preparedness at the state, local level and in private industry. Heck, even at the national level the CDC, NIH and Congress had roles to play. Hell, Nancy Pelosi was calling for people to come out to Chinese New Year at the same time Trump and Fauci were thinking this was not gonna be a risk. I cannot think of one state, local or national politician or one leader in industry that was screaming about our lack of preparedness.
This is a NATIONAL fuck up not just Trump's. Were you voting on pandemic preparedness issues? I was not. Heck, I had no idea that we could not produce PPE or drugs until this started and I would bet that 99% of the population and politicians were in the same boat.
My point is that the chips ARE going to fall where they may regardless of what we do. This is NOT very likely to get a whole lot better, a vaccine is not going to be a silver bullet even if we get one. Our best hope is that we develop accurate tests that are quick and that we develop therapies that are effective. Then, we get on with things knowing that some or even most of us are going to get this at some point. It is not going away so we can try to hide in our homes and hope or we can get up, accept the risks and go on living.
The voters cannot be expected to micromanage our Public Health preparedness. We have a right to expect that our leaders will install competent managers where they are needed. So the buck stops with sticky fingered Obama at least as much as Trump, and behind that lies the failure of our political/economic system. Something is fucking rotten in the State of America.
I agree that we can't blame ALL of this on Trump and that our outsourcing of production to China is bipartisan fuckery of the highest order, but he definitely exacerbated a bad situation and I think you're giving him a pass on a lot of things.
He ignored warning signs for months and increasing numbers of infected both abroad and here in the USA claiming that it would all blow over. In January when the WHO was actually saying there was a high global health risk and we had cases rising in Washington state he was claiming there were no worries about a pandemic.
In early March he downplayed the lack of testing, claiming at various times that, "Anyone that wants a test can get a test." He kept tweeting blaming the Democrats and the media for inflaming the situation saying it was all under control and that there was nothing to worry about. Then on March 17 he held a press conference saying he knew all along it was a pandemic.
Then as states shut down in March Trump basically decides we should open back up by April and starts tweeting about this all the time. Suddenly by the end of April he is advocating for opening everything back up to get the economy going again and a bunch of southern governors decide to throw in with that and we get ourselves another big surge of infected.
At one of his coronavirus briefings in April he suggested off the cuff that ingesting or injecting disinfectant were interesting possibilities for combating the infection.
He continues to point to the number of infections being tied to the amount of testing and that if we didn't do as much testing we wouldn't have as many infections, which is absolute stupidity.
There are so many stories out there about the Trump administrations mess ups on acquiring PPE. The latest is the Jared Kushner dream team one. It took Trump until July to actually recommend wearing a mask and before that he publicly downplayed the risk of not wearing one and both he and Pence were never seen wearing them even when they were visiting locations that required them.
And yes there were many Governors that were looking for a national plan and complaining about preparedness as the virus started accelerating. When they found they were on their own many of them were scrambling to acquire PPE and finding themselves battling other states and the feds for those resources. It's a true clusterfuck and while our system sucks and we were not prepared a lot of the problems with the response falls at the feet of the Trump administration.
I hear Thanatos speaking in your voice. I think you want to die and want us to come with you. I think you should go right ahead, but don't expect us to come with you. We are busy living. Go about your business.
I think I shouldn't be so quick with my appraisals. I guess you were just depressed when you made that comment. You sounded fine in later ones.
Yep. Most people don't know anyone who has died from this virus. Because that is not a common reaction. The vast majority of people who get this only experience mild symptoms. Just as a contrast: I know four people who tested positive for this. Two showed no symptoms. One had cold-like symptoms. One had flu-like symptoms.
I'm sorry for your loss, but it's just not common for most people.
I know 7 people who got it. One died -- he was already in assisted living for medical conditions -- and the other 6 were only briefly sick and recovered fully. This isn't ebola.
Matt, while we've got you here, there's an issue I'd be grateful to see you address head on:
Your reporting on the Russia collusion hoax shows that Dems, media, and various senior federal law enforcement and intelligence officials attempted a coup. Some may have been deluded or reckless for a while, but others certainly intended to fabricate a story to oust a duly elected president, and they kept at it long after any conceivable factual basis for the hoax was refuted. There's more evidence of that emerging every day.
I know you find Trump gross, and I get why. But do you support having the coup plotters take control of the executive branch again? Not just the same party, but in many instances the very same people?
You're a great writer, you're a clear thinker, and you've obviously got some cojones. Can you take on this question? Thank you.
The plotters are still at it. NYTimes manufactured evidence that the Russians are paying the Taliban a bounty for American scalps, and they are demanding to know why Trump lets his friend Putin get away with it.
What is your support for the position that the NY Times made this up?
Read consortiumnews. The allegations come from Afghan Intelligence who will cause people to tell them what they want to hear. They want to motivate the US to avoid a deal with the Taliban. There is no need to pay he Taliban a bounty. Killing Americans is their biggest joy. Also other reasons.
It was an oversimplification to say Times made it up. Afghan Intelligence made it up. Then it was cherry picked by people in US Intelligence who liked it and fed it to NYTimes who played it up. The general intent of all parties was to avoid US withdrawal from Agstan.
Just a side note but if you haven't caught the "great mask debate" clip making the rounds you're missing out on on a pretty good chuckle. I live in NorCal and masks have been mandated from early on. I had a set of tires put on at a Costco recently and spent an hour sitting around outside watching hundreds of people of all ilks come and go. What I saw were people WITH all manner of "masks" including many that were really borderline like bandanas and scarfs etc. Lots of them didn't cover noses or were pulled down when people spoke with each other or removed the second they exited the store. We've had a spike here like in other states and maybe it has to do with this lax mask wearing behavior. One thing I'm certain of..it's not due to political defiance by Trump supporting rubes. At least not here anyways
Our county recently went under a mask mandate, urged by our mayor, the Hon. Leirion Gaylor Baird, who has a degree from Oxford and worked in the Yale College Deans Office. Our Gov. Pete 'Dimestore Lex Luthor' Ricketts twists in the wind because he's an idiot who got political advice once from Scott Walker. ... As for me, I expect to be wearing a mask this time next year too.
I know this is an old post and I'm merely providing 'hindsight on 2020' ( :-D ) but this is conclusive evidence that many of the criticisms given back then in regards to things like mask use were completely valid and in some circumstances more accurate than the message we were getting from even medical institutions. I know you were critical of protesters being given "a free pass" but the letter signed by 1500 "medical experts" (even though a significant number were simply students in a medical program) stating that "racism was deadlier than COVID and therefor justified whatever actions necessary" caused me to lose any remaining faith in those institutions. I've long considered myself a man of science, but when the very people who science is meant to be the foundation upon which their institution is built upon discard it in favor of activism, it's not hard to see why something that typically would be seen as an acceptable practice with little to no opposition instead became a position of defiance and a demand for a return to actual scientific principles. The harder they pushed them, the more suspicious I became personally; if they truly provided the effect they purported they did, then there would be 0 need for the mask wearing propaganda we experienced over the last year. If they worked, the data would clearly show they worked and most people would gladly seek them out. But instead we got relentless bombardment of hypothesis presented as established fact which led to it being a symbol of ones virtue more than any sort of "Bulwark against Contagion."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/
We’re fighting a global pandemic. If the citizens of the world are going to win, it will take all of us to make the necessary sacrifices to keep ourselves and our neighbors safe. I think of the sacrifices members of my family, everyone’s families made during WW II. Millions of young Americans sent far away from home to fight a global enemy. More than 400,000 never returned. Those who did return came back with the horrible memories of war that they dealt with for their entire lives. Citizens who stayed home made all the necessary sacrifices to support the war effort. Wearing a mask, maintaining a reasonable social distance...doing the necessary things the scientists advocate to keep us all safe doesn’t seem to be that outrageous.
This feels like a Walter Sobchak "this guy fucking walks" moment.
Yes the media lies, yes the experts are incompetent and inconsistent, yes the elites will try to use any flimsy basis to exert power over us wherever they can...but all that is independent of the virus. Plagues happen, and they have their own agenda.
The expert's losing streak is all the more reason to keep an extra eyeball on this virus and take precautions.
The media also tells the truth. You gotta be jussmartenuf to separate the pepper from the fly shit. This administration lies so much the truth is not expected from them and rarely arrives undistorted.
From the distant perspective of 2024, this comment (and replies) about masking and the danger of Covid illustrates how easy it was to panic the public back then.
When an M.I.T. professor/employee , what have you, makes a video of himself challenging Dr. Fauci to a debate about masks, on his own dime, it’s clear that folks aren’t on the same page. I’ve been masking from the start. People don’t like living in fear. The fearmongering in the media is too much.
Absolutely agree that the anti lock-down crowd has many motivations, with the glue being disgust with the media and political class misrepresentations of, for lack of a better phrase, "The Science". I remember when it was all about "flattening the curve", and people were on board because hey, who knows how bad this can really get? When the data showed that it was only the NYC /Northeast area that truly needed triage, but all residents everywhere needed drastic lockdowns "because in two weeks this will be you!", well many in the hinterlands saw exactly the same gaslighting that spawned "Trump is Putin's cock holster".
When I got pissed off? March 12 - there were Covid 6 diagnosed in Ohio but our top health officials told us there were 100,000 that already had the virus. On March 12. Ridiculous and that clear idiocy triggers the "I need to background check every assertion these "professionals" make. Anyone paying attention has witnessed an absolute credibility train wreck from our public health overlords.
It is just horrifying that entire communities and businesses are being obliterated in response to a pandemic that is pushed by people who clearly only follow convenient storylines and bury other viewpoints.
That is the truth.
To be fair, this is all still so new and the science is so all over the place and really just getting started that you expect some variations, some disagreements.
What bothers me is that you have the media, pundits and politicians taking science out of context or taking science that the scientists have hedged and turning them into absolute truths. Then they end up contradicting themselves later.
Worse, you sense that a lot of the misuse or misreporting of the science is intentional to push a narrative that is more political than in the interest of society.
Lies. Damn lies and statistics.
That is true. The Liberal Democrats are livid about the anti-science Trumpist thugs but the scientists know that they don't know that much. The people who pretend to know are the Public Health spokespeople whose job is to pretend to know.
Nah. My take is that the refusal to wear masks is mostly about the same solipsistic denial that Larry Kramer faced from the unbridled hedonists of the gay party crowd in the early days of the AIDS epidemic. Denial and rationalizations galore, "supported" by factoids, folklore and superstitions. And in this case, fake statistics like the one you quoted: ".04% death rate" for covid-19? If only. https://covidusa.net/
The Virus is No Fun. It's a buzzkill. A wet blanket. The virus demands serious checks on the carefree existence that most Americans view as their prerogative, and who wants that? Nobody.
Can't we just not care about it? No.
I don't like this situation, either. But I'm not going to delude myself about its reality. My family is determined to ride this epidemic out safely, in spite of the people who are still literally throwing caution to the wind.
I don't know what it will take for the reckless to learn their lesson about this. But they're gambling more than they can stand to lose, and some of them are bound to find that out in ways that are close up and personal.
I'm also noticing a lot of people who are unclear on the concept of indirect consequences- 2nd order, 3rd order, etc. effects. So unfortunately, even some of the people who are acting right and taking precautions are likely to suffer from the heedless behavior of others.
Having to wear a mask when indoors or in close proximity to other people is a 1st World "Problem." SARS-Cov-2 is a Real World Problem.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/research-reveals-heart-complications-covid-19-patients
https://bestpractice.bmj.com/topics/en-gb/3000168/complications
A .04% death rate is 400 per million. The US death rate already exceeds that figure, and no one is suggesting everyone in the US has been infected. The death rate is probably around .5%, maybe a little higher or lower depending on circumstances. Why make up a demonstrably false figure?
It has run at 0.26% in the latest count, compared with over 1.00% about 10 weeks ago. There will be no definite statistics until we can see how many survive a round 2 or round 3.
There is definitely a correlation between the use of high-quality masks (where possible) and the severity/mortality of infection.
That certainly seems plausible. Treatments are also being refined and improved from the March/April period.
I don't get it - Why not just wear the mask? It's such a small ask. If it helps then good. If it doesn't then no harm done. And as far as social distancing, it just makes sense - the virus dies out without hosts. So you don't get to do exactly what you want for awhile - just deal with it. Think of the healthcare workers and other essential workers who have to be out in public. The least the rest of us can do is try to control the spread. The main issue has been the lack of economic support for small businesses and local governments. That's on Donald "pro-freedom" Trump. What good is freedom without life?
I will answer your question. First, I do wear a mask in some situations, like in a grocery store. I do it not because I think it is smart policy but not to offend my neighbors.
The response to Covid19 is obviously going to kill more people than the disease itself. The UN is predicting millions in danger of starvation due to the contraction of the global economy. Untold numbers have missed normal medical procedures, and have died or will die as a result. Tourist centers and small business are being devastated. Our kids, if they go to school at all, are to be constantly reminded that something deadly is in the air and if they are nor careful they may kill Granny. All in the name of "health." Meanwhile, the government flushes away trillions and trillions of dollars, sums so large that we cannot comprehend.
The benefits of public mask wearing are unproven. As recently as May specialists writing in the New England Journal of Medicine said that mask wearing in public probably provided no benefit. Today I find people waking in the woods or driving alone in their cars wearing masks. These are signs of public hysteria, not prudent health measures.
The media-induced Covid19 is doing infinitely more harm than the disease and public mask wearing - which is getting more common where I live as the disease ebbs - is a constant suggestion that we all might catch a deadly disease at any moment.
Herd immunity is how we get past this disease, like most other diseases, the sooner the better. If masks turn out to be effective, they merely postpone that process and allow successive crops of the sick and elderly to die of the disease.
I also wear a mask in stores - not because I care what the neighbors think but because it makes sense as a universal way to protect one another. I'm 99.9% sure I don't have it but I realize that if everyone who feels the same doesn't follow the precautions then it's not going to work so I wear the mask and stay put as much as possible. I do not wear a mask in the woods - just bug spray. On the further positive side, I've learned I'm pretty good at making masks.
Deaths from the side effects of the shutdowns are government / societal choices not inevitable consequences. You can open everything back up and most thinking people are still not going to go out because they logically reach the conclusion that it's not safe. To repair the economy, we have to deal with the virus in a coherent way. In the meantime, put money in people's pockets so they can spend at those small businesses, distribute food to all in need, zero out all rents and mortgages and maybe all debt - I'm no economist so I'm not sure about how this might work but we've thrown trillions and trillions of dollars into wars so I'm very confident in our government's ability to spend. It seems like what's standing in the way of economic relief for people is money so maybe it's time to redefine it. In other words, we're not lacking in things - we're lacking in the ability to pay for things. As for doctor visits, my husband has gone to the doctor twice during this time and I've gone to the dentist - perfectly safe.
As for children, this is not a time for fear of killing granny. It is a time to learn about sacrificing your own desires for the good of all and also a good time for learning about viruses, diseases and history. It may not be what they're used to but that doesn't have to be a total negative. I always taught my kids there's not such thing as being bored and I still believe that. What we have to be sure is that we have support for families who are suffering financially.
And finally , herd immunity. I'm not sure of the numbers, but isn't it like 1.5% or so of Americans have been infected? And I'm not sure what the percentage is worldwide but for herd immunity we need like 60-70%. If we've reached 1.5% in about 6 months, then I would say we have years to go to reach that 60-70% naturally. And in the meantime, we have to be sure not to overwhelm the healthcare system which circles us back to masks, social distancing and hand washing. In my opinion, we should never become complacent or indifferent about "crops" of people dying however they might be categorized.
What's the practical alternative to herd immunity though? Wait indefinitely for a vaccine? Here again, there are reputable, serious experts (Michael Levitt at Stanford; the people at the Oxford Center for Evidence-Based Medicine) who think (a) that effective herd immunity from covid occurs at *far* lower of an infection percentage than 60-70% -- they think it's more like 15-20% in practice -- and (b) that early signs suggest that this has already happened in places like New York City and Sweden. (to my understanding herd immunity is local, not global).
These folks' opinions don't get much air time, though, because they run counter to the Google-approved narrative that "if we all just comply perfectly with this week's Virus Control Guidance as explained by a half-educated, panicked millennial in the New York Times, everything will eventually be fine at some indefinite point in the future, and please pay no attention to the collateral damage".
What is the road to herd immunity and what is the collateral damage on that road? I'm trying to think of different diseases and have we ever achieved herd immunity naturally or have we always reached this via a vaccine or preventative measures? And, can you really have sustainable local immunity without mandating no travel?
I think everything should be open for discussion and investigation. Whatever we do though has to take into account the capacity of our healthcare system to deal with those who become seriously ill and that's the point of measures to slow the spread. You don't have to panic but neither do you want to go out of your way to catch an unpredictable disease. My main frustration is that we seem to have no coherent plan so we've ended up with the worst of all worlds - a disease run rampant and an imploding economy.
I think you might be conflating herd immunity with eradication. My understanding of herd immunity is that a local 'herd' can get to the point where enough people in it are immune to a virus that it can no longer spread quickly through that herd.
This doesn't mean that no one in the herd will ever get sick (i.e., eradication), but that the herd as a whole will be epidemic-resistant until there is a substantial and stable change in its overall immunity profile. Casual travel doesn't seem likely to affect that, but maybe that depends on where the herd lives.
I'm wondering why you think the disease is currently running rampant? To me it looks more like we've passed peak almost everywhere in the country: https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/regional-cases-per-million
What good is life without freedom?
What is freedom? It's never absolute and varies according to the situation. There are always trade-offs and considerations.
Infecting other people is 'freedom'?
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Just like when I insist that my Second Amendment rights not be infringed upon, I am really asserting my right to shoot other people.
The nearest analogy would be taking your Second Amendment rights to mean that you can shoot at random in any environment. There are actually people like that. Several years ago some dumb boy got hold of a loaded .45 pistol and fired it at random in a crowded New York City neighborhood, and unintentionally killed a small child, which caused something of a local scandal and outcry. But you know how liberals are.
They don't deliberately infect other people (as far as I know); they just don't care, because they are 'free', which has the same result. I don't see anything dishonest about that statement; indeed, the conclusion seems obvious. As for the belief that one is free of connection to other people and its consequences, I think it's a kind of infantile delusion and it's strange to see it elevated to the level of ideology.
Thank you so much. I don't know where I stand in the political world right now ... used to consider myself "liberal" but I thought liberal meant live and let live, anti-war, pro equality. Now it seems to mean exactly the opposite.
People who don’t know math, know nothing about epidemiology and medicine come out of their holes and voice strong opinions. Studies from various countries show that with the current policies around 5% of people got infected. That means that in the USA the mortality rate is about 1%. Extrapolating, to achieve herd immunity even if it’s possible we would face 3 m dead. I know nothing about hydroxychloroquine and I suspect you do neither.
Fucking spot on.
The fatality rate is closer to 4% which is significantly higher than the flu, which is .005% Who was arrested for not wearing a mask? Where? When? Wearing a mask is not about you -- it's about others. Do you think that virus was transported to nursing homes by magic? Someone caught the virus singing in church and then passed to the man who delivers adult diapers who passed it along to a nurse who then gave it to elderly veterans.
Well, no, neither candidate is a good choice. That’s the point.
Indeed.
The death rate of COVID-19 in the US has been about 6% (160,000 deaths/2,500,000 recovered). Worldwide it's at about 5% (700,000 deaths/12,500,000 recovered). https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
How do you get 0.04 percent as the death rate? 158,000 divided by 330,000,000 is higher than that, and obviously not everyone in the US has had covid-19.
Probably a mis-type, most people find percentage notation a little confusing. I would guess that he actually meant 0.004 simply; i.e., 0.4%, which is right about in the middle of the iFR rates I've been seeing lately.
"Urban liberal condescension" is a great motivator for voters to turn their backs against logic. WHY don't Democrats realize that Peter Strzok in his knuckleheaded texts displaying such disdain for the working class exposed a level of contempt at high levels of government that continues to scald them today?
Why? because most of the Democratic machinery would not have jobs -- Trump is the best thing that ever happened to them. It has given them a reason to exist. They sold everything else off. (If I hear one more time how " you must vote Democrat if only for the Supreme Court nominee-- really how is that working for you?)
How can the Democratic Party still be relevant? Through Bernie? Yup how did that work out for you? They sold US voters out during Bill Clinton, merged forces with their buddy elites across the aisle, fought them for Wall Street funding and reaped the (short term relatively) benefits. Now all they can do is fiddle on the margins. Really a Green New Deal-- hello China, Germany etc. have been doing this for 20 plus years-- yes China! Note the release of Chinas first electric car-- thanks Elon--. Does the US think that it has any chance in recreating a manufacturing base? That ship sailed.
The collapse is in full mode-- look local and support your neighbour.
Interesting take. However, there is something to consider regarding the upcoming election. In 2016, it was easy for me to vote for Gary Johnson. I don't really like Republicans. All it took was a massive operation to take down a duly elected president and a state sanctioned Marxist revolution in the middle of a pandemic to piss me off.
I went from politically disinterested to borderline activist in less than a year. I'm not a part of that populist right wing demographic. But now, there is nothing that could stop me from casting my vote for Trump. I may be an exception or there could be many other voters who share my sentiments. If so, November could get interesting.
I voted for Gary Johnson last time too, and I will vote for Trump this year for exactly the reason you gave: the left has become lawless, and the institutions it controls (universities, media) have contempt for free speech, due process, and other individual rights.
Look at the campus kangaroo courts; look at the speakers who have been chased off campus because they would offer a different viewpoint. Universities have been producing graduates who do not understand or respect the basic rights that make this a great country, and those graduates are attaining critical mass in the real world to end freedom as we know it.
Even if the Republicans have poor policies on issues like health care (and they do), it's essential to send the left packing until they show they will respect our Constitution and individual rights. And with any luck, within another four years, the propaganda mills we call universities will implode and be replaced by institutions that actually teach debate, free inquiry, and critical thinking.
In a couple of years, I will need to actually pre-qualify universities for my daughter based on whether they have incorporated critical theory and intersectionality into the curriculum. It will end up being a very short list.
I'll be doing that for my daughter in four years. The college where I studied is beautiful and I had a wonderful experience there, but it has since become a pit of post-modernism like the rest. Hillsdale is an option. If my daughter has the grades, I think University of Chicago still upholds some of the classical tradition, and at least protects free speech. But you're right: short list.
Good luck with that, unless your daughter is pursuing an education in welding technology or something similar. Campus activism demanding inclusion of post-modernism, woke intersectionality and social justice content is making its way into STEM programming now, even at large world-class research institutions. At least the UofChi has stated their commitments to principles of free intellectual thinking and an open learning environment.
Are they defunding the campus police at the University of Chicago yet? Do you think the tuition will include private security?
Are you a college grad? It sounds as though you don't understand how colleges work. You, the student, CHOOSES what courses to take! I never, for example, took a course in Women's Studies, Queer Theory, African-American Studies, etc. They were all available, but, others were more interesting to me. Colleges have distribution requirements: 4 semesters of a foreign language, 2 semesters of science, etc. but not a specific course.
They are actively incorporating critical race theory into everything from history to mathematics. This is well beyond multicultural studies electives.
May I ask where you get this info?
1619 Project
https://reason.com/2020/01/28/1619-project-new-york-times-public-schools/
https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/history-killers-academic-fraudulence-1619-project/
Woke Twitter is currently proposing that 2+2=5. They just don't mention that 2 is a variable. It seems to have something to do with transgender ism. Also, critical thinking and the scientific method is racist.
I understand your reasoning to an extent. I, too, am frustrated by the trend you are describing, though I think the examples you cite are not nearly as common as the media and internets would have us think. However, I can't for the life of me see why voting for Trump will solve this.
I remember hearing about the Horowitz report in passing on the evening news. The first thing that popped into my head was that it could be as bad as Watergate if it were true. I expected to hear more about it because it was clearly newsworthy. I didn't. That is how I ended up here. As it turns out, it is considerably worse than Watergate.
When that became clear, I knew that I would be voting for Trump. I couldn't directly, or indirectly, support the Democratic party because of the Russian collusion hoax. It was a coordinated disinformation campaign that was intended to defraud the public and overturn an election. It was an attack on our Constitutional Republic and on Democracy itself.
The Democratic party has become an illiberal institution that no longer values the rule of law or the government of the people. They have made that clear by jeopardizing the safety and security of the citizens of this country. They have turned a blind eye to violent insurrectionists who are literally burning Democratic institutions to the ground. Their tacit approval of Marxist principles and those who support them is a direct threat to liberty and justice for all Americans. That is why I am voting for Trump.
Pelosi, Schumer, et al are Wall Street Establishment to their core! Marxists? Ha!
You are correct. The Marxists are the petulant children rioting in the streets every night. Pelosi and Schumer are far more selective but they are equally seditious. They merely defrauded the American public by weaponizing our national security apparatus and court system to violate civil liberties and try to impeach the duly elected President of the United States. Otherwise, I'm sure that they are very good people.
How do you know those kids are Marxists. Frankly I hope they are, but I didn't see that in the news. Have you talked to many of them?
Yes, they are guilty of this. Voting for another person that flouts the Constitution isn't an answer, though. It's a protest vote. And a useless one. If you really want to protest, vote third party.
That, in my opinion, is a false equivalency. The DNC tried to fraudulently overturn the will of the people. That is not forgivable. Trump, for all of his faults, hasn't done anything that even remotely compares to that. At this point, voting third party would be indirect support for the DNC. That is something that I cannot do. This isn't a protest vote. I'm voting for our Constitutional Republic.
The dearth of acceptable alternatives outside of Trump and Biden helps me to at least understand where you're coming from. I won't be voting for either but rather writing in the person I feel represents my views the most. I admit that I have that luxury because I live in a solidly blue state. My main problem with Trump is his hiring of deregulators in regulatory positions-often with glaring conflicts of interest--or even just "acting" heads that are not vetted by Congress. I also have a problem with a President who sincerely believes he is above the law. And then there's the fact that he's such a goddamn infantile boor.
Would love to hear what you think about Trump's patently obvious attempts to preemptively delegitimize the election results by casting doubt on mail-in ballots.
Also, and please answer honestly, when you listen to him talk about something--anything--do you think to yourself "This guy's talking a lot of sense and he really has people's best interests at heart"?
Trump signed a dangerous cyberwar initiative that neither W nor Obama would touch!
But Trump and Republicans in general, don’t hold dear the principles you explain that you hold dear, so why not vote third party? Or refrain from voting. Anything but throwing good votes after bad.
I wrote in my wife's name in the last election. This election, I most likely will not do so. I now fear for our ability to be free as a nation.
I am with you about the antidemocratic plotting, but I don't get it about the violent Marxist insurrectionists burning Democratic institutions. In fact I'm not sure how you literally burn an institution. Please tell me what you mean.
His Secretary of Education promulgated a rule to eliminate the campus kangaroo courts and require basic due process, including the right to cross examine, etc. Biden says he will repeal this regulation immediately if elected. I am also hopeful for a regulation that will withhold federal funding from colleges that do not protect free speech. I'm disappointed we didn't get that this term. But we most certainly will not get it if Biden is elected.
" I can't for the life of me see why voting for Trump will solve this".
It won't. Voting for Trump will bring fascism, i promise. Mussolini rising.
Taibbi did a lot of reporting on the Russia collusion hoax. If you believe his reporting--which was well supported and keeps getting corroborated with new documents--the Dems, intelligence services, FBI and media attempted a coup. Do you think returning them to power is a way to fight fascism?
Did you make the same projection in 2016? Did you learn anything from it?
“The Left” does NOT control the msm! They are all, from Fox to MSNBC war mongers and Wall Street shills.
Right on.
I feel much the same.
Scott: I feel the same. I did not vote for Trump the first time around. But like many Americans I abhor the use of power to intimidate and destroy those who are weaker or who think differently. I think Matt is being too quick to assume Biden will win in 2020. I believe there are a lot of people who are thinking like you. One other piece of evidence: the jury decision in Gibson's Bakery v. Oberlin College. Those jurors were members of a very middle-of-the-road community who had enough of leftist bullies trying to destroy and cancel the little guy. No one talks about that verdict as a precursor but I believe it is
I agree. I know of alot of conservatives that opted out in 2016 by voting third party or not voting at all. I suspect that the majority of those votes will go red. The DNC is not coming from a position of strength right now. They are leaderless and their platform is incomprehensible.
They should be pounding the table for liberal Democratic values. They should be condemning violence and unanimously shutting down any notion of defunding the police. Job number one for any government is safety and security. They are trying to be everything to the mob and the mob hates them for it. The DNC has become the illiberal party.
At this time four years ago, the GOP was fragmented and in a state of denial. Establishment Republicans hated Trump. Bush and Cruz were demoralized. He single handedly hijacked the GOP while he openly mocked them. I've never seen an institution collapse in on itself in a more dramatic fashion.
Now, the GOP is Donald Trump's party and he has the strongest support he has ever had. Support among Republican voters is incredibly high and they are picking up voters like me. Underestimating him would be incredibly foolish. After 2016, I thought that skepticism would be commensurate with polling but I guess not.
Meanwhile, entrenched DNC cities are slashing police budgets while they support, defend and protect petulant children that are actively trying to burn Democratic institutions to the ground. Predictably, crime is spiking to levels that they haven't seen in decades.
How is that a winning strategy? Outside of staffers in the media, does anyone actually like what the DNC has become? It is incredible when you think about it. They have actually become a caricature of the Democratic party.
agitprop
What is peaceful about destruction and defacement?
That was me but that is not in reference to well meaning protestors. I am referring to those who use them for cover so that they can do damage. There is a world of difference.
You are correct. Peaceful protesting is an American institution. That must be protected. Hurting people and damaging property should not be.
I think many people are quietly seething and waiting to speak up through the safety of the anonymous ballot.
Silent Majority 2020
They say that silence is violence. You must be actively anti-communist.
$34 million in damages. That, combined with the Covid losses might have hoisted Oberlin on it’s own petard.
The key in that case was a document where an Oberlin diversity dean or some such functionary threatened/promised to “unleash the students” upon the bakery owners.
Those riots at Oberlin, Evergreen State, and University of Missouri were practice runs for what we now see nationwide.
Exactly. The smaller riots were children testing their limits. Still waiting for the adults to step in.
She did not, actually...it was theoretical...Did the jury even see that?
Aren't all threats theoretical......until they take place.......
That was the legal basis for holding Oberlin liable. Students are not employees, and a college would otherwise not necessarily be liable for what its students do.
As an Asian American Republican in Southern California, I also couldn’t pull the trigger for Trump. Instead I also cast my vote for Johnson. But the overwhelming hatred and attacks from all quarters has motivated me to vote straight Republican come November. I have relatives and friends in SoCal who are independent. They are frightened by the images of cities burning, and outraged by the blatant hypocrisy of the press. They’ve told me privately they are voting Trump. These people are watching Fox News and Tucker Carlson, something I never would have thought possible. Will Trump win? Biden is clearly the favorite as of now but I wouldn’t be shocked at all if Trump wins again.
That is what I have seen and heard as well. I cannot understand why Democratic leadership isn't condemning these acts of violence. Anyone who has remotely paid attention knows that these are coordinated attacks on American institutions from far left extremists. Distancing themselves from people who hate them anyway would be the right move. Physical security is a very powerful motivator. I could be completely wrong but I just don't see how this ends in a Biden presidency.
The hearing today was chilling. It made Ted Cruz look like a hero. How flipped is everything?
How about "The delivery of 200,000 missing mail-in ballots in Michigan and 600.000 in North Carolina, breaking 90-10% FOR Biden, may assure his victory. What a surprise comeback!"
This is a deeply weird way to think about your vote. Does Trump support policy outcomes you do? Is he the best choice available to move us out of the pandemic? Are you better off now than you were four years ago?
Because to me, those are the questions we should be asking. Whether the press is mean to him is a childish rubric to use.
And to be clear: I'm no Biden fan. Both he and Trump are well to my right, to whatever extent either man has an actual ideology. But there's no universe where I can talk myself into the idea that Trump's actually trying to lead or gives a damn about anyone who earns less than an eight figure salary.
Trump supports some policy outcomes I do, more so than Biden.
I don't think the President has much to do with "moving us out of the pandemic." Time and science are going to do that regardless of who is in the White House.
Until March I was and so were most people. I don't blame Trump for the emergence of a pandemic.
Your hatred for Trump is clear. But to be clear, your vote is the one that is deeply weird. You are going to vote for Biden despite him being 'well to your right."
Voting for the lesser of two evils is saner than making your rubric "were some writers being pissy to him?"
Rest of this I just disagree with. And I'd suggest that you take an honest look about what policy outcomes you think Trump wants and his efforts at actually making those happen.
What rubric are you referring to? I never discussed writers being pissy to him.
The fact that you disagree with my perspectives in interesting...
...Two of the questions you asked were about my policy outcomes and my personal situation...it'd odd that you think you can disagree with my answers. They may not be yours but they are accurate for me.
The only one that was substantive and general was about moving us out of the pandemic. Be specific as to what you think Biden will do that will move us out of the pandemic better than what Trump would do.
Or admit you're just being pissy if you prefer.
It was a joke about the comment I was originally replying to---voting Trump because people were ganging up on him. I think that's a crappy reason to vote to anyone.
I disagree with the idea that the president is not responsible to move us out of a pandemic, especially taking into account that we no longer have a functioning legislative body.
I also disagree that Trump even has a coherent set of policy outcomes to support but to the extent he does, few are appealing to me. Further consolidation of wealth isn't something I'm keen on. His education secretary is a ghoul and I have a lot of teachers in my family.
Some of his original claims while he ran for president would be lovely to see. An actual investment in our infrastructure would be tremendous. The "better and cheaper" healthcare plan he promised would be great too. He just has shown no capacity for achieving anything outside of starting culture wars. Also, you did not mention a single policy outcome Trump wants that you support.
So yeah, I'm judging Trump by what he's done in four years. You seem more keen to absolve him of responsibility. That's your prerogative. I find it transparent and uninteresting.
Agreed-I voted for Johnson in 16’, b/c I am a libertarian and Hillary and Trump both annoyed and disgusted me. Not this time-it’s about saying NO to the corporate-woke alliance.
I do not think your an exception.
I also think that the dems are in for a surprise with the black vote.
Not that blacks will vote for Trump in big numbers, but that they refuse to vote at all.
Why? It will be because of the riots in their cities and the Defund the Police Movement.
Been reading some really interesting articles out of Seattle, Portland and Minneapolis about outraged minorities freaking out about what has happened there and them wanting their cops back.
100% agree with you. The far left does not speak for the typical Black person in America. For example: I live in a really racially diverse neighborhood, and I work for a really woke company of mostly white and Asian people. On the 4th of July, my coworkers were all like, it's racist to celebrate the 4th. Meanwhile, the people who shot off the most fireworks in my neighborhood? A Black family and a Mexican family. And all of us—Black, white, Asian, old, young—were in our yards clapping and shouting. It was awesome.
Yes, it's not the disadvantaged who rely on the police for protection from unrest and violence that too often ravages their communities that want to 'defund the police'.
"state sanctioned Marxist revolution"
what is this cornball nonsense? You think an oxymoron is redeemed by your hyperbole?
The rest of the nations of the developed world have imposed a similar regime of temporary retail business closures, social distancing, and mask regulations. One important distinction between the policies imposed by the US and those of other countries is that every other nation with a similar level of per capita GDP and income has backstopped their population with a level of income support and systems of medical coverage what are an order of magnitude more extensive than anything that we've managed to provide in the US. You know, even more comprehensive policies of the sort that you're deriding in your tantrum as as "state-sanctioned Marxist revolution." As if "Marxist revolution" is the way that Congress operates. As if President Trump didn't sign the relief bills.
Another important distinction between the US and the social democracies of the EU and Japan is that those countries presently have their virus outbreaks in check. And the US does not. Because too many Americans have no sense of the difference between Freedom and Entitlement. Countries where the social consensus accepts the prevailing medical purview- even late adopters like the UK- have active case and death curves that are decidedly on the downslope. For example:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sri-lanka/
And the US has an infection/daily death toll curve that looks like this
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
(I don't use Youtube guided meditation clips as medical references.)
I was a Libertarian before you began touting it. Back around 1980, before it was trendy. Oh, we wuz heretics in those days, Scott. There was some actual intellectual ferment going on, before it went sour.
I eventually rejected Libertarianism as a political ideology- it's too dogmatic, just like all of the other monolithic ideological templates. I'm a pragmatic pluralist about ideology these days. I just want to do something that actually works, that's fair. Dogmatic ideologues...well, dogmatic ideology inevitably trends in the direction of extremism, parading as The One True Answer To Questions of Economics and Society. So I'm not surprised that Libertarianism eventually got hijacked by the Ayn Rand cult and the entitled crypto-GOP whiners of the world. But I'll always have a libertarian philosophical bent. (And I know better than to twist the notion of wearing masks to prevent the spread of disease into a political statement, or even more comically as genuflecting to looming tyranny. I was marching and publicly protesting against the War on Drugs in the 1970s, the 1980s, the 1990s... I have some perspective.)
I'm not talking about COVID-19 and lock downs. I'm talking the woke mob of antifa rioters that have attacked people and property all over the country for several months now. These types of organizations are unapologetically Marxist.
"Antifa" is not an organization. It's a disorganized pack of attention-seeking young males with too much time on their hands, fueling their egocentrism. In thrall to what Robin Morgan refers to as The Demon Lover in her book by that title. (Speaking of a person of the Left who appears to have been discreetly "canceled" for many years now, which I suspect is due mostly to the fact that she busted Left acquiescence to the domination tactics of terrorism and violence in that 1989 book.) Self-absorbed "activists" trashing Portlandia- a city that's gone out of its way to be environmentally conscious and livable- that's about par for the course for the Antifa mentality.
I've spoken out against those "antifa" imbeciles as long as I've known about them. But I also recall the summers of 1976 and 1968, and nothing has happened in 2020 that approaches that scale of damage and death toll. The ratio of nonviolent protest to rioting is much, much higher nowadays.
That said, the current protest movements in some cities are woefully undisciplined. Moreover, "taking to the streets" has very limited utility as a tactic. And focusing on confronting the police instead of the sources of institutional oppression is like falling for a game of three-card monte.
I support the protests, as a necessary first step in getting people together. People need to get their stories together. And this does include dialogue with those who express disagreements, as long as it's mutually respectful.
I also wish that the protestors showed some reasonable wisdom and compassion toward the police- who are showing up at those demonstrations because they've been ordered there, not because they're counter-protestors. It's summer, they're hot and uncomfortable in those uniforms, they could probably use some cold bottled water instead of having shit thrown at them.
Agree with everything except the protests. All things considered, most police officers are making the best of a bad job (we ask them to do far too much with too little training). These protests are based on misinformation (e.g., that there is an epidemic of police killings of unarmed Black males--there isn't) and a denial of the reality of higher Black crime (which no doubt is influenced strongly by disadvantages, but exists nonetheless). 1/3 of Black men have felony convictions. Yet, in 2018, only 15 armed, unfleeing whites were killed by the police and 9 Blacks. (Obviously we should work to 0). What are they protesting the police for? Seriously?
Trump is a full bore criminal. A full bore pathological liar. A capricious vengeful psychological dysfunctional traitor when he chooses.
If you admire those traits in a person, it is your constitutional right to vote for him.
The only thing I have to thank him for is that he is destroying the party first, country last Republican Party.
But he doesn't actively want to destroy the country. So that puts him one up on those who are driving the Democrat Party bus these days.
He IS actively destroying the country, this very second. Putin has the goods on him and he puts Putin's word above the 17 U.S. Intelligence agencies who said Russia interfered.
How are Democrats destroying the country by wanting health care and education for all?
The fact that you are continuing to push the completely discredited Russian collusion nonsense evidences your level of partisan gullibility. That WAS an actual step towards fascism, but from the Obama DOJ and its holdovers, not Trump. However, as its clear you're getting all your news from Rachel Maddow and maybe TPM, I think we're done here.
I believe everyone of our 17 intelligence agencies over a pathological liar. Maybe you never heard of the Helsinki meet between Putin and Trump. Maybe you did not watch or listen as 15 dedicated state department operatives, including Trumps personal appointment as Ambassador to NATO testified about his lies. Maybe you did not hear Col. Vindeman or Marie Yovanovitch and others who testified to Trumps treason. Mitt Romney it seems is the only Republican with the strength of character to hear the truth and act on it.
Maybe you get all your news from Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Alex Jones.
P.S. The only people to discredit the Russiagate conspiracy is Trump and his goons." Hello, Russia, if you are listening".
Or, Smaack could be getting their news from Matt Taibbi.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/democrats-have-abandoned-civil-liberties
That doesn't even include the latest revelations. Every American should be, at the very least, concerned about that fraudulent investigation. Some of us are angry about it and we will cast our votes accordingly.
Don't feed the troll. Ignore it.
And then, Republican, now, Libertarian, Rep. Justin Amash. He quit the GOP due to Trump and the Yovanovich, Vindman, scandal, et al.
'How are Democrats destroying the country by wanting health care and education for all?' I would say: they want it, and do nothing serious to bring it about. In addition, they actively support endless imperialist wars and a huge apparatus to spy on the people of their own country, and continue to pursue Identity politics even when it blows up in their faces and damages the fabric of the society.
Spreading fables like Russiagate and engaging in the attendant McCarthyism doesn't help, either.
OMG. Straight from the pages of NYTimes. I hate to see that gaslighting BS here.
No gaslighting, none, zero. It seems you can't deal with any opposing opinions. I do not accept Taibbi's opinion without question. I know it is popular for some to discount all journalism but their own. You have your right to discredit who you wish, in so doing you limit your sources and to say nothing credible comes from the NYT or Atlantic is not sensible. You just gotta separate the pepper from the fly shit.
I was wrong when I called you a troll and I'm sorry about that, but you are exceptionally ignorant and arrogant in your ignorance. There is a word for it that I forgot; the {something} effect, which refers to the experiments that show that the most ignorant people have the highest confidence in their opinions. I resent being expected to waste my time on dummies like you, but I will give you an example. The factoid about 17 intelligence agencies is a lie. In fact a handpicked panel of analysts from about half a dozen intel agencies was convened to say they believed that Russia did it. Go read Consortiumnews.
Can you name his specific crimes? Yes I thought not.
Perhaps he is guilty of occupying too much space in your head.
Super easy. How about commuting the sentence of a man who was convicted of federal felonies 7 times because he is a personal friend, all the while degrading military patriots for telling the truth about him.
Just an opener, you can go back and start with his stupid lie that Obama was not a US citizen, which was a racist dog whistle and the flood of lies since. He loves the uneducated because education destroys ignorance.
1. The commutation power of the President is absolute. It is not a crime to use it.
2. Degrading people is not illegal.
3. Claiming that President Obama is not a US citizen (which he is) is also not illegal.
Perhaps you were using "crimes" in a more colloquial sense to mean "things I disagree with."
If so, you were providing ample evidence of Matt's thesis about cancel culture.
We officially need a block function on Substack… my favorite was the other guy this morning telling you that he didn't need to come here to get in the same old arguments, when I think it's only these new people like him initiating these same old arguments.
I don't think blocking is a good function. People wield it like the hammer of God. Signing off with "blocked" as if they have proven something.
I'm happy to take all comers. I've had my share of comments I regretted on other platforms and will endeavor not to do so here. It is exactly the people you want to block that you need to try to reach, at least in my opinion.
Play the legal vs morality game if you wish. I consider it an abuse of power when someone willfully and knowingly spreads lies (conspiracy theories), takes justice into your own hands in spite of our judicial system and practice character assassination from a bully pulpit just because you can a crime against those ignorant enough to believe you. His crimes are covered up by a Senate majority who cares not one twit for me or you, only their control and power.
I still want to see his tax forms which i bet with odds show interest payments to Russian oligarchs and the money laundering Deutsche Bank.
In other words, nothing he did is illegal but you consider it wrong.
Using the word "criminal" should still imply an actual crime was committed, not something you disagree with (which is all abuse of power is anyway). There is a significant difference between illegal and immoral. I can only conclude you have no evidence of the former.
To that end, you should clarify your initial comment if you want people to understand your perspective
And you are sure that the Russia hoax is real and the next shoe is about to drop.
Thank you for the clarification of your perspective.
Fraud with his “university” for which he paid $25m to settle and “a shocking pattern of illegality” with his “foundation” which he was forced to dissolve and pay a $2m settlement.
Huh, he wasn't charged with fraud was he? Turns out the word crime still has meaning.
And, of course, those things have nothing to do with his Presidency. Calling people criminals and traitors without evidence is in no way likely to provoke productive dialog.
People talking like this are pushing the less angry people to Trump.
Logic has no appeal to them. Every word i stated is truth, fact. The senate hearing on the impeachment was a white wash bad joke. Not one single witness, not one scrap of data, zero, nada. Total control by every single Republican senator and their leader except Romney, a complete farce. Logic and honesty does not exist when it comes to party power.
I agree with your assessment of the malignant narcissist. However, the USA is going over a cliff no matter who wins this election, for reasons too many to count. I despise the smarmy Biden as much as the cretinous moron now occupying the White House. That is why I vote for third party candidates. I also live in a solidly blue state. I still get screamed at by liberals for “giving a vote to Trump” by voting third party. Ask me if I give a rat’s ass.
Yes, it is and I will.
Thats the comparison that needs to be made here.
I agree the Democratic Party needs to re-evaluate. We are sick of establishment control that made Trump our current president rather than Bernie Sanders.
Both parties have flaws, it's just that the Republican Party ignores the fact that Trump is a treasonous fascist liar. The Republicans blocked every witness from testifying. Trump blocked every single piece of evidence requested. He has kept his financial history away from our congress and the American people. Why? Because he is a criminal par excellence.
Bernie Sanders had no hope of becoming President in 2016. In 2020, the same is true. Right now Joe is getting a pass by saying little in public and having a compliant media that doesn't seem to want to discuss the fact that his numbers don't add up, just as Bernie's never did.
Bernie had a strong chance. The Democratic establishment along with their media control nixed it in favor of Hillary, a deadly mistake. I quit the Democratic party totally and became independent. Bernie was and is an Independent, a true standard bearer for the common person.
Whether you want to hear this or not, Bernie is too far left to be elected President today. The current incarnation of Biden would be the most leftist President since WWII.
In 20 years, things may change. Indeed they will change whether we like it or not
I just don't see how this solves anything. Do you expect that Trump will do anything to quiet down riots based on racial divides? This idea that Marxist revolutionaries are driving the violence has no basis in fact. You've obviously been played by the media as to the level of destruction occurring on the ground. Portland has been thrown out as a wasteland of destruction, but that's far from the case and most of the issues have happened in about a one block radius of downtown.
Violence is instigated on both sides by those trying to delegitimize the protests. You've got a fascist federal government deploying unidentified federal agents in unmarked vehicles to the area to sow discord. On the other end there is video of unidentified black clad individuals breaking windows of businesses and quickly leaving the area while protesters nearby tell them to stop.
If you were to tell me that you wanted to burn the country down to show the Democrats they can't pull the same bullshit with Biden in the same centrist role as every previous candidate I would somewhat understand that, but at the same time there are real people out there suffering due to the miserable handling of the covid-19 situation by the Trump administration. Giving Trump the nod again would basically tell him that everything he has done up till now has been correct and he would double down. That's how the man operates.
It shouldn't be too much to ask elected officials to enforce the rule of law. Trump has demonstrated that he will do this without the overreach that many accuse him of. He would be well within the authority of his office to invoke the insurrection act but he hasn't done so. If anything, he has demonstrated restraint and he has honored Federalism and state sovereignty to the extent that is possible.
There is no acceptable degree of riotous activity by anyone. By and large, we know that far left extremists are responsible for the vast majority of the damage and unrest. There are relatively few examples otherwise. You aren't going to gaslight me. Either way, it is atrocious and unacceptable. Anyone, of any political persuasion, should be criminally prosecuted for these senseless criminal acts.
I fully support the deployment of Federal officers to Portland and other cities to quell violence and protect Federal property. They are not unidentified officers. To the contrary, all of them have clearly marked insignia and unique identifiers on their uniforms. These people have gone through hell. They deserve our respect and gratitude.
State and local officials are duty bound to enforce the rule of law, protect citizens and property. In the absence of that, the Federal government is duty bound to do so. I expect nothing less than that. Federalism does not equal feudalism.
The widespread rioting and looting in the wake of George Floyd has devestated businesses all across the nation just as many of them were preparing to open. That has affected communities small and large all over including those that are disadvantaged. Recovering from widespread lock downs was going to be difficult but after the riots, it will be completely impossible for many.
This is a time for unity not partisanship but in our political climate, that may not be possible. The lack of coverage for this is media malpractice. Americans are in the dark for the real impact. It's heartbreaking.
The reality is that covid has devastated businesses and the person most responsible for that continuing debacle is Trump and his administration.
It's almost as if you don't know what federalism is.
Current Definition: The excuse Trump uses for letting the whole country go to hell in a handbasket due to his incompetence.
Pretty sure that's not what is in the dictionary.
It’s almost as if you don’t know what leadership is.
Oh, I'm quite clear on what leadership is. I don't have much positive to say about the leadership of any politician.
But that was a nice try at deflection.
this 'burn the whole country down' line is getting repeated but what is it based on? record low unemployment and solid economic growth (pre Covid), so which parts are being burned down exactly?
We aren't pre-Covid and we aren't pre-George Floyd either. I'm talking about right now, where Covid has killed 150k+ people and is on its way to killing more and the economy has tanked because Trump is an incompetent boob that has literally said he takes no responsibility for anything and continues to follow up on that by doing nothing at the federal level to mitigate this pandemic.
Everyone who lives in NYC just need to pay a quick visit to Soho or Chinatown.
Most of the Trump voters I know were iffy on voting for him again until the pandemic. His mishandling of that scared them away and lost their votes.
I won't pretend this is anything other than anecdotal but if the president is supposed to be a leader and he fails his biggest leadership test, it's going to turn people off. This crisis is personalizing federal politics for a lot of the country. And almost no one's better off now than they were in February.
Two points: Justin Amash voted to impeach. I respect him. Romney, also, voted on 1 article to impeach. I respect him. But, while I do agree with some of what you say, Trump has neither brought jobs back, nor ended wars, nor “won” the trade war with China, nor made multi national (and other) corps. pay taxes as long as they park their assets in the Cayman Islands or claim it as their “headquarters”. Where is the great infrastructure he promised? But, the truly concerning thing is he has signed a cyber war initiative so dangerous and extreme that neither W nor Obama would touch it with a ten foot pole. That is all in addition to his lies, his constant fanning of the flames of division and contempt, his unwillingness to be even moderately calm and soothing and to attempt to bring Americans together. He pours gasoline on the flames of our discourse. Everyday, he and his tweets keep the country stirred up and at each others’ throats. He and his chaotic administration are a disgrace. Oh, and, all he did with NAFTA is to barely tweak it. Trade deals were supposed to be his signature accomplishment. All pols lie. Trump lies CONSTANTLY and UNABASHEDLY using his 4th grade vocabulary. He gaslights us every time he opens his phone or his mouth: Who you gonna believe, Trump or your lying eyes?
I'm what's been known as a "Never-Trump-Conservative". I've been railing against him since he was nominated. But the events of the last couple months might force me to vote for him.
This describes my situation as well. I suspect there are a LOT of us out there.
Welcome! I wish my GJ-voting husband could do the same.
Let me guess. You're a "small business owner" who makes more than $100,000 per year?
You may be missing the point but if you must know, I'm just another deplorable.
What's evident here is a piece like this is coalescing into a thesis about the state of affairs, what I would characterize as a classical Left wing critique of power structures that tries to transcend party lines in order to describe the objective political reality.
I think you're nailing it. Keep it up.
On a personal level I feel deep alienation and cynicism from cultural Left op eds from places like the NYT that drip with storytelling, narrative goo and aim to spurn calm attempts to interpret data. On the other hand, if I look at the Right wing press I have to read repetitive hand-winging about so-called cultural Marxism, and defense of laissez faire ideas I believe led to this mess in the first place.
So am I a fascist for getting exasperated when I open up a Kindle or an Amazon page and get bombarded with anti-racism nonsense, giant BLM lettering, and reminders of my privilege? Or am I a dumb liberal when I question the Republican project to banish Obamacare and give tax breaks to the wealthiest?
Answer - both! The real Resistance now is to escape the corporate sponsored categories and remain an outcast. And not end up smeared, depressed and obscured. Or just keep my mouth shut.
How long before it's just easier to leave the country and live abroad, Matt?
I don't think you experience the same degree of stupidity and cupidity in Ireland, for example, nor in Costa Rica, nor in Scotland, maybe not in Spain or Greece or some South American countries. I am, frankly, planning to move abroad. The United States exists only to make war and we have a war economy and hardly anyone cares...at least nobody with any real influence. I know a number of people who are okay with us killing people as long as they are brown and especially if they are Muslim. We have 800 military bases all over the world. I've been doing my best to make this country, to which my ancestors immigrated in the 1600s, a more just, peaceful, and humane place. My Congressional reps (3) could care less what a simple, individual like me thinks or wants, at least not about any controversial issue. Global corporations, foreign lobbies, and other special interests rule this country, not Trump, Biden, Pelosi or any politician and CERTAINLY not us! Young people give me hope. I'm a left winger and I support "the Squad" but already they are being forced to, at times, kowtow to the DNC. I fear one or more of them may lose her seat in Nov. but I pray I'm wrong. I hold some views one might consider "conservative" I suppose but I would never (now) vote GOP or Libertarian.
I said the same thing when Bush was re-elected! And I've been living in Europe since 2009. I can assure you that people are just as stupid here.
Why, just the other day a man overheard my kids speaking English and excitedly pulled me aside to tell me how much he loved America... and that 9/11 was an inside job, COVID-19 is a deep state conspiracy, 5G is mind control and the American government would soon be replaced with a fascist regime headed by a never-end succession of Trumps. (Ok that last one might just be an empirical observation.) Just this weekend, 17,000 people gathered mask-less in Berlin to protest government over-reach and the tyranny of social distancing policies. And last month 5G towers were burned down in the Netherlands and the UK by people who were convinced that 5G radiation spread the coronavirus. The Gilet Jaunes are ironing their vests right now to protest the French government for mandating, but not paying for, masks... after they're done with their current protests against raising the retirement age to create room in the budget for things like paying for masks.
The good news is that my government representatives don't even have to pretend to represent my views because I'm not allowed to vote (but I am allowed to pay taxes). Also, everyone here is an unapologetic racist against Southern and Eastern Europeans, Africans, Muslims and especially Americans whom they believe to be irredeemably racist. Also Asians. They are very considerate, though, shouting their racist insults in English. It turns out that when the racist white people are the indigenous population, white/liberal guilt just isn't a thing.
I'm planning to move back to the US.
1) Which city do you live in? 2) Which city in the US are you from/going to? 3) I lived in Stuttgart, Germany and in Italy. I did not experience the things you describe. I lived with a German family in Stuttgart and in Italy, I visited my then-Italian husband’s family and friends and later, I was a summer abroad student. I met and worked with tons of people, none were expats. All were natives of the country or in one case the very brilliant daughter of Turkish Gästarbiters. (They did describe some prejudice against them, though, from Germans.) Also, one executive made some slightly offensive comments about foreign workers but that is fairly typical of CEOs and their attitudes toward labor, imho, anywhere. I liked the healthfulness, the fitness, the value of leisure time, the elegance, the higher level of literacy and knowledge. Very little consumption of junk food. No eating between meals. A sense of style, and a bigger and broader sense of history. It’s like the opposite of going to any mall in America where all one sees are jumbo this and jumbo that and people looking like they should be in their bedrooms watching TV, all the while buying garbage they don’t need to put into SUVs that are too big, and into houses that are twice the size of the average house in 1957. 1 in 4 Americans is an End Times believer who thinks the earth is less than 6,000 years old. Half this country can’t name the 3 branches of government.
I lived in three different states and nine (or maybe 10) cities coast-to-coast and I've now lived, worked and raised a family in Europe for over a decade. I travel all over the world (and especially in Europe) for work. And my experience is that the US is great, Europe is great, Chile is great, Argentina is great, Japan is great, Costa Rica is great, Mexico is Great, Canada is great, Singapore is great, the UK is great --- there is not greener grass on the other side of the fence, but everyone should live abroad if they get the chance. It's great and it really broadens your horizons.
Stupid people are everywhere, but so are wonderful, kind people. Sure, Europe has a broader sense of history, but go ahead and ask a product of the French educational system about colonialism and their history in Algeria or a product of the Dutch educational system about their involvement in the slave trade or ask a Scott if they know how many streets are named after slave traders. Or, if you prefer civics, go a head and ask --- as I often do --- about their country's legislative system, the female labor participate rate or rudimentary history of a neighboring country and you'll get blank stares. They are just as ignorant as Americans. It just feels bigger because our (American) education is so Americocentric that we're shocked to learn of the rich history of the European continent that is part of the standard curriculum virtually everywhere here. But the reverse is also true; I often find myself regaling the details of American history to my European colleagues. And I've met plenty of Europeans who could not find California or Texas on a map, just as I have Americans who couldn't even tell you what side of the continent Spain is on. I'm not just pulling people off the street, either, I spend most of my professional life interacting with scientists and engineers with PhDs.
I have to say I agree with you. Though I've certainly had some unhappy run ins with Euro bigots or corporate jerks, altogether the style and quality of life is high for ordinary people in many or most EU countries. And I like what you say about a "big sense of history." That really makes all the difference. Most Americans don't know what happened last year let alone last century. It's not at all perfect in France or Holland, etc., but altogether it's better and allows for a better life.
Euro countries have their crazies, but the standard if living is high and healthcare is covered. People have every reason to consider moving there. If they do it correctly re visas, they will have a union job, decent pay, maternity/paternity leave, summers off, free healthcare and much else. I actually think that "nation abandonment" will start to become an open political issue over the next ten years, as domestic policues only make life harder, global warming worsens, unemployment expands, and cost of living sky rockets. More and more of us will simply choose to leave. I know my wife and I have considered it in the past, in fact we've already lived abroad and who knows, we could easily do so again one day. Life in France is a breeze compared to the sheer insanity here.
As I said, I went through the same thought process when Bush was re-elected as did many other Americans, but I pulled the trigger and moved. Although I seriously do want to move back to the US, I do not regret moving to Europe one bit!
Healthcare: I don't even know how much I pay because my premium is so low I don't notice it. My first interaction with universal healthcare was when I fell and thought I'd broken my wrist. I walked three doors down from my house (literally) and waited for 20 minutes to see my GP, who referred me to the hospital. Three hours later I had an X-Ray; no money changed hands. The total cost of having a child was around $200 each, but that's only because we opted for an extra test to check for Down Syndrome. Otherwise it would have been free, including the home delivery, in which a crack team of midwives showed up to our house at the drop of a hat to shepherd us through the whole process. I particularly like how we were able to chose exactly how "medicalized" we wanted things to be.
Union job: Not really relevant to my ivory tower profession, but the janitorial staff only had to stage a slowdown for about four weeks to get a (much deserved) pay raise. Employment contracts do make it virtually impossible to fire people, which means that we have to shuffle incompetent and lazy people around the organization to find where they can do the least harm.
Decent pay: In the sense that it is in line with the high standard of living, that is true, but I pay 50% income tax on a much lower salary than I would have in the US in exchange for just about everything being free --- when I visit the US I am always taken aback by how I am constantly nickel and dimed because nothing is publicly funded. But I do have more choice there, since everything here is provided by the government.
Maternity/Paternity leave: Oh, absolutely. Plus no one guilt trips you for taking the time off work. Also, I can stand up at a meeting at 17:00 and say "I have to go get my kids" and everyone will just nod in agreement and tell me I'd better get going. The "live to work versus work to live" axiom is my lived experience.
Summers off: Only in the sense that you get much more generous vacation days than in the US --- you still have to pay for your holidays. And they're not cheap because, somewhat ironically, American (and Chinese) tourists jack up the prices.
The thing that I think Americans under estimate about expatriating is the psychological and emotional effects of social and cultural isolation. It is very, very hard to make friends outside of your circle of expats (from all over the world, which is neat) and even harder to see your kids being indoctrinated into a foreign culture. I took it for granted that I was a product of the culture in which I lived. Also, it is crazy expensive to fly back to the US to see your family and difficult to feel connected, even with modern communication, because of the time difference.
I have quite a bit of insight into life in France and it can be a breeze if you are French, but don't expect decent pay or for anyone to speak English or to understand that learning French is hard. France is a Southern state, meaning it is less wealthy than, say, Germany or Denmark. For example, when you cross the border into France electric cars vanish from the roads. And outside of Paris and Lyon, everything is farmland dotted with tiny villages where you are not going to find a job without an EU passport.
Oh, but I forgot the best part of living in Europe --- at least where I live --- I haven't owned or even driven a car since I moved here. And I don't miss it at all. Trains travel is also awesome when it isn't constantly under assault from one the two major political parties.
Stausberg is pretty cosmopolitan as well.
Dont do it.
This country is gonna blow up.
Not sure exactly when or exactly how, but you can feel it in the air and it is going to be very very violent I think.
I'd really like to discuss all this with you, actually. I was considering going to the Sorbonne next year for a masters (I speak some French, my father was French Canadian). Can we get in touch?
I'm happy to help --- but I think you'll have to disclose an email address in a public forum (and for every spam-bot to see).
The first piece of advice I always give is to find out if you are eligible for citizenship in a European country. I happen to be Italian-American and having an Italian passport makes all the difference in the world --- I can come and go as I please, I am not subject to any immigration requirements, I can travel freely around Europe, I never get hassled at the border, etc. Of course, a passport is total overkill for a semester abroad, but if you are seriously thinking about expatriating, it's not a bad idea to look into that option now.
If you're pursuing a masters, then you're probably much younger than me, in which case you will have an easier time socializing and learning the language, especially if you already know some French. Paris is also way friendlier for foreigners than the rest of France because it is a big city. (But expensive!) Even so, you cannot underestimate how difficult things can be without at least A1/A2 French.
My advice to students always the same: do it! You can go through your current university, which will have existing exchange and collaboration programs with foreign universities or you can apply directly. Just make sure to look up all the entrance requirements. For a French university, they will almost certainly need everything translated to French (officially, which costs money) plus you will need some official documents that align your transcript with the ECTS system (e.g., letter grades translated to numbers, credit hours translated into ECTS). Sometimes they don't formally require French proficiency (it varies by university and degree) but if they do, you will have to get a certificate. The rest really falls into place, since the French university will help you with a visa, housing, etc. once you are accepted.
Dont do it. You will go mad.
I'm looking to South and Central America.
No place is gonna be perfect but I have always felt freer in Mexico than in the US and the cost of living is a whole lot better.
Just stay away from the coasts. Go inland. San Miguel. Lake Chappala.
I think the "Squad" represents every ridiculous Cultural Left war that's divorced from class and Reason that Matt is criticizing in these articles. They may not represent corporate power like the mainstream democrats, but I find them deeply hateful, aggressive and prone to demagoguery, similar to the way the Right behaves. I believe that someone like the AOC is "Trump" turned inside-out. There's clip after clip of her, quote after quote of her saying the most irrational things. If that's my alternative I think Costa Rica (as in your example) is more interesting.
Unfortunately you'll find the very same politicking elsewhere. I think it's important to question and keep an open mind, approach topics scientifically and don't subscribe to dogma. Things change stay adaptive, don't pigeonhole yourself into left or right, black or white.
Yep. This culture war has become our biggest export.
don't be ridiculous. The biggest "cultural export" of the US for the last 35-odd years has been gaudy, tacky, venal sensationalist advertising hustles. "Product."
In less than a week the George Floyd riots arrived in London with corporate sponsorship.
Other counties have their own complex history of race.
Yet the symbols and slogans have been mapped on to Europe with alarming fervor.
Interestingly enough, Macron handled calls for statue removal with more resolve than any supposedly conservative leader.
The brave new world is here.
I would follow the science if the call to do so wasn't so dogmatic these days...
I think I understand the alienation and cynicism you might be feeling.
I appreciate that I live in Canada, so not living "abroad", but from my travelling in the last year and planned this Fall, I don't see much different in other parts of the world. Here in Canada as someone who organized unions and has always followed (what I define as) a progressive path, I was shocked when the local Toronto Council and Premier (Governor) of my Province didn't express shock and outrage at the JDL's (designated a terrorist organization here in Canada by the RCMP) violent attack on a pro-Palestinian business.
The worst part was the response from a staff member of my Councillor Josh Matlow which when I complained about the lack of arrests concerning the violence (ie where was the condemnation of this) was to state that the owner was anti-semitic (by whose standards? hers?) and how the owner talked about Epstein being a member of Mossad!? what? who cares! No response about the violence. I was left feeling the same-- who are these people, what happened. I felt that these people used to represent my interests. Not any more.
I am sure I have now been labelled anti-semitic by the Councillor's office just because I expressed concern over the violence and the right to free speech (banners, writing etc.)
We do have a hate law here in Canada (infamous case Ernst Zundel) so why not charge the business owner if it fits.
And do I want to be part of the Conservative party that our Premier is part of? No -- same dilemma different country. And friends in Germany and France provide similar stories. It seems like it is just bigger in the U.S. and has been around longer.
The USA, CA, the UK, Germany, France, Austria, Australia, South Africa are 100% Zionist Occupied now. That is one of the main reasons I plan to move somewhere, such as Ireland, where you can actually be openly and proudly Pro Palestinian. We no longer have 1st A rights here. 26+ states and counting have passed anti-BDS laws. The USA exists solely to make war, especially wars in the interest of the Oded Yinon Plan for Greater Israel. That is another big difference between Ireland, or Spain, or Greece and the USA. They don’t have military bases all over the world and are not constantly meddling in other countries. I’m sure one runs across idiots everywhere but our country’s politicians are bought and paid for by the big donors and lobbyists, AIPAC, being one of the most powerful (Forbes).
Zionist occupied? You sound like a deranged type of person. Sometimes the far Left and far Right agree on certain things, as evidenced by yourself.
BTW....I am 10 yrs from retirement and I am already well into planning my retirement outside the US.
a) Mexico
b) Panama
c) Ecuador
d) Columbia
e) Peru
f) Chile
It’s Colombia
100%. Each day moves me closer to living abroad.
The cultural Marxism nonsense is so brain dead.
Ahmen brother.
As an Ohioan who grew up in a working class family, this seems spot on. And the insight re: elites terrified of a working class movement was spot on. Anybody watching Woke Capital celebrate Juneteenth or Pride Month believing corporate America will be a partner in a progressive future is a fool. It is much easier for corporate America to self-flagellate once a year at a diversity and inclusion seminar, tweet a rainbow flag, and hire a few diverse candidates to populate the Human Resources Department, than say, raise wages, pay health insurance, provide pensions, etc. Corporate America is a master of illusion, and other progressive elites in media and universities are too busy smelling their own farts to care about the underclass.
Spot on. It’s actually cheaper to go woke as a brand than to deliver on policy for the working class.
https://www.hank4ky.com/Contract-For-Rural-And-Working-America.pdf
Looks expensive ;-)
Not nearly as expensive as our current corrupt system. For example, fixing health care would save 40% compared to what we already spend; we'd live longer, and we'd spend less of our lives fighting with insurance companies. Rural broadband would cost money but it would be an investment in ourselves. (Kinda tough to do remote schooling without internet, 30% of US doesn't have robust internet.)
Funny there's no price tag.
And please be honest - whatever the price, some would oppose it because it doesn't match their ideological goals. In fact, far too many (you perhaps?) view their ideology as their goal. For me, ideology is a guide. Ultimately we will need to collaborate across political divisions. I'm progressive, but if conservative ideas get us the desired goal I'd be fine with it.
And what if we don't agree with your desired goal?
Neither did the F-35... we seem to find the money once we decide we need something, and right now we all need health care that costs less, honestly covers all of us, is easier to use, and that gets better results. We currently have the most expensive health care in the world, but we are ranked lowest among developed nations.
Well, first off your statement is false. The F-35 did have a price tag...turned out it cost a lot more than that, as these things usually do but it had one.
There are only three ways to make health care cost materially less...
1. Reduce usage of health care (lower quantity).
2. Price controls = lower HCP salaries
3. Stop paying for new and innovative treatments - lower innovation.
Which are you in favor of?
Turns out I was agreeing with you...but if that's what passes for discussion in your corner of the world, have at it.
Yep. "We tried black faces in high places" and it didn't mean anything. Look at Obama. The strategy is to keep everyone focused on who is kneeling and who isn't so that no one storms the boardrooms.
I think that the elites in this country are terrified for their positions.
Ya know...most of them do not contribute much beyond mental and emotional masturbation and they have been so wrong, so often, about so many things, that it is a wonder that they are believed at all.
The older I get, the more I see, the more I believe that the basic common sense of the average person has more practical value than any long, drawn out analysis and proposal by the elite.
Yes, and they are scared for a reason that Taibbi pointed out elsewhere. Trump voters bypassed the "keepers of the orthodoxy of the elite." That's why hysteria is the order of the day.
In the past, three groups decided who got to run for president: the two political parties, the donor class, and the media. Trump put them all on trial and won in 2016. The more they tried to slander him, the more people liked that he was bucking the system. Most people don't like that these groups get to decide who can run for president. So the goal is really to try to get everyone to self-disenfranchise, to not vote. In 2016, almost half of Americans couldn't be bothered, and "Did Not Vote" won by a landslide.
Wow. Spot on. Salute
I used to despise you, Matt, for exactly what you confess to here - contempt and condescension towards the "proles."
Now I can't get enough of your stuff. Honest, thoughtful, reflective, and willing to stand up to the media Gestapo of 24/7 hate Trump and panic porn. Thank you.
Trump (whom I did not vote for) is an oafish, cartoonish, buffoon - and he revels in being that way.
But he does not possess anywhere close to the level of contempt Democrats have for people like me and my family.
Not rich. Not racists. Not sexists. Not filled with hate and greed.
We go to work, help others regardless of who they are, and want our kids to live in a safe world.
A parent of white sons wonders what the Dems have in store for them.
I think the left is in for another slap in the face in November.
They got the warning and decided to double-down on crazy.
I disagree with your characterization of Trump overall. He is a different side of the same coin. He doesn't have contempt for working class people so much as he doesn't give a crap about them or think of them at all. He has bankrupted business after business and treated his employees like dog shit during their employment and on the way out.
He is completely self involved and yet totally unaware of and unable to acknowledge his own failings.
He is the epitome of an already disgusting political establishment.
Matt's older now and has a family. Hey, he learned. And he was never going to be Maddow's warm-up act like Chris Hayes. Too independent minded.
This is wonderful, thank you. The level of condescension and classism from even rank and file “liberals” these days is off the charts, but good luck getting them to see it or even having a conversation. Every conversation devolves into name-calling thanks to the folks who spend hours with cable news and Twitter every day. Even fellow liberals who used to be perfectly capable of independent thought have been made simplistic assholes thanks to full immersion in the groupthink echo chamber. It’s depressing.
I was an organizer for unions and then some other lefty organizations for about 10 years. There are a few things I feel certain of. Liberals are supposed to be pursuing progress; there are a few things that are going to be absolutely necessary to making it happen. You’re going to need a large coalition of people with at least one common interest, no matter how many things they disagree on, because numbers are the only way to beat entrenched power and money. In order to achieve that, you’re going to have to talk to people where they are and add people who aren’t with you yet to your coalition.
These things have become impossible in the liberal, or even mainstream media sphere today. We used to bemoan the powerful/the right using race, or slight class differences, to divide people and keep them from fighting their common enemy. The right doesn’t need to do it anymore; we’ll do it for them. We’re intent on splitting our own tribe into many small tribes, and stressing how much they don’t have in common. (Perversely, well off white people are still the dominant voices speaking on behalf of “marginalized groups”). So much of what ails Americans today is true across class lines, but we will not address those things, and will call anyone who attempts it some word synonymous with “immoral”. And forget about talking to people where they are. The dominant tool of persuasion among liberals today is telling anyone who doesn’t already agree with me what an awful person they are. Even if it’s true (and I watch liberals miss the mark with this constantly) awful people still get tI vote. The liberals doing this end up dominating most conversational spaces, even though they’re a small group even among Democrats and, again, overwhelmingly well off white people.
Watching all these protesters doing almost nothing in the way of organizing to get specific policy changes, even in cities that really are dominated by Democrats, breaks my freaking heart. But it’s impossible to organize now, or to even do things like internally curb violence or property damage (to help!) are impossible. The mainstream press has a taboo on even speaking of such things, or on suggesting ways that the movement might get results.
Sorry to go on so, it’s a thing that I’m passionate about obviously. I don’t see any way to end this cycle. We have a culture that refuses to hear dissent, a pop culture that refuses to speak to anyone other than this type of liberal. Biden has stayed away from this nonsense, mostly. But the next Trump won’t be an incompetent moron. I think that people are going to keep using the ballot box to push back on the liberal cultural consensus, because it’s the only way they can. And most people who need help will continue getting nothing much at all.
Again, sorry for the lengthy comment
I am a librarian. Once we were passionate supporters of library service to labor. We had a newsletter. We had a big group of members. Since about 1970 interest diminished until now we have one award that recognizes libraries that collect labor materials, but no big megaphone and hard to get volunteers for this one committee. The working class is not a priority. As you say we have many things we care about--but they are so many things with no overarching direction so people are in so many different focused small groups (except Intellectual Freedom but even that has boundaries now). And I agree, the violent protests have not netted a direction that anyone can see. When the Murrah building was destroyed people came together. Now there seems to be no common cause.
Brilliant. don't apologize.
I think Frank is the Thomas Paine of his time - but his voice is suppressed, and I fear both he and Matt will be canceled.
I notice comment sections disappearing from many sites across the web, another way to silence the people so that only one voice can dictate 'truth'.
Also, the battle as to whether some of these sites are publications or public forums rages on, perhaps that is why some have done away with the comment section? I had heard that is part fo the reasoning.
Lovely post, Randall. What I hear in it, and in so many others in response to Matt's writing, is heartfelt sorrow for the passing of moderation and the liberties that moderate institutions protect. The death of moderation is what occurs when the rituals of addiction -- most notably, our massive state-sanctioned addiction to all things media and all things digital -- replace the meaningful rituals (like the family dinner table and the weekly day of rest) that once protected and promoted the quality of life. All addictions, regardless of the narcotic, steal our time and money and freedom.
Notably, moderation (not abstinence) is the opposite of addiction, and -- unfortunately -- no one ever got rich by selling less of anything (my life story for the past two decades). Meanwhile, the self-delusion of all addicts remains the same (again, regardless of the narcotic): We underestimate the power of the narcotic while we overestimate our power to resist it.
Of course, the biggest addicts in the age of default media addiction are those who live and work in the big media markets like New York, Washington DC, LA and the Greater San Francisco Bay Area (including the Silicon Valley) -- those who eat, sleep and breathe media. Thus the real battle is not between red versus blue per se. The real battle is between red-state media addicts who consume 15 hours of media each and every day versus blue-state media addicts who not only consume 15 hours of media each and every day, but also produce and profit from all the media consumed by everyone else. Call me crazy, but promoting the biggest addicts as the voice of reason in the age of default addiction seems to me nothing less than the height of folly and self-destructive behavior.
Remarkably, what I hear many of the posters herein say, in so many words, is that, in an age of polar extremes (by design), Trump has now emerged as the less extreme (more moderate) option...
A comedian in the UK addressed the issue pretty well. I'm surprised more people didn't pick up on it. He was talking about Brexit, but as far as liberals abandoning the working class, now calling us all racists or stupid if we don't immediately address our love for Biden, it's the same. If liberals don't seriously engage workers, we know who will. .... NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NffWa8ZlJkY
“The dominant tool of persuasion among liberals today is telling anyone who doesn’t already agree with me what an awful person they are.”
Honestly, I think you’re letting your own side off a little easy here. I’ve tried for the past couple of years to engage conservatives in a civil manner, but I’ve given up. It’s wearying to be told over and over again that one’s a “communist” - someone who wants to abolish all freedoms, confiscate all private property, and imprison or shoot anyone who resists - for supporting the kind of healthcare system that a country like Switzerland has.
Not sure there are any good choices anymore.
Oh that’s not my side. I’ve always had no choice but to vote for Democrats. But “my side” owns the culture right now; the truly nutty conservatives do not typically have an impact on our lives. HR isn’t crafting policies to placate the right; Nike isn’t making commercials for them. The NY Times isn’t refusing to print things because they run counter to the right’s narrative. There are no mainstream TV shows and movies, everywhere, catering to the right. Its my “side” that owns the dominant conversation in this country. It’s my “side” that is supposed to drive progress, but won’t tolerate much in the way of actual ideas for achieving that. They seem perfectly fine with the status quo, so long as there are a few more brown faces in it. They’ve come to fall into the same trap as echo chamber conservatives did decades ago: if you disagree with them marginally, then you are their mortal enemy. Sexuality is a spectrum, and nothing else is. Two teams trapped in opposite bubbles yelling at one another, listening to no one else, while 60-80% of the population just loses hope is horrible for progress. But if your goal is to “stand athwart history yelling ‘Stop!’”, then this situation is pretty much your wet dream. I’m not on the conservative side and, frankly, they barely impact my life and I’m pretty much free to ignore them. Like most people in the US, my world is most circumscribed by my employer and the dominant culture around me. We know that the conservative people you can’t reach are a maximum of 40% of the country. We could win almost every election in the country if we would deign to reach out to the other 60% and think of ways to improve their lives. We are, resolutely, not going to do that; we’re going to try to shut them up. This is all wonderful for conservatives. Unfortunately
Dude, just say it. You know it’s the truth, and you know it’s time for it to be said straight laced and bare: in 2020, the Democratic Party is the party of the rich.
I’ll sum the issue up with these articles:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-rocks-us-full-of-entitlement.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-53463242/china-s-ambassador-challenged-on-treatment-of-uighurs
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/06/the-rents-too-damn-high
The rich want Chinese slaves. That’s it. Period, end of discussion. That takes out most of the educated labor force and most of the blue collar labor force. Whatever is left, gets taken out by imported immigration (legal and illegal).
It doesn’t matter how hostile China is, how much damage they inflict on the West (both economic and direct), or how totalitarian China behaves. The oligarchy wants obedient slaves and China has them.
On the issue of destroying labor, the Democrats have the Republicans beat hands down at this particular junction in history.
Let’s walk through this.
You are born with nothing in the middle of the country. You are told manufacturing is gone, and your only hope of success is going to college. So you get started. You major in STEM, which everyone says corresponds to a national shortage. You graduate. Contrary to public opinion, there is a ridiculous amount of competition. You have to compete with outsourced labor from China (slaves) and in-sourced labor from India (whose immigration status is contingent on keeping their job). You will be unemployable by the time you hit 40, unless you hit management. Who is the primary supporters of this regime? All the Democrats and half the Republicans. However, it’s the Democrats that use race and identity politics, which is infinitely more effective, than Rhino arguments on efficiency, etc. Also, unlike the left, there is enormous, real opposition of this scheme from the right.
Orite, so you don’t do Engineering. You major in the liberal arts and go to law school or business school. But you can’t go to any business school or law school because liberal elites think you are a piece of shit unless you go to elite schools. So you rack up 250k in loans and graduate from Columbia. You learned nothing at Columbia because liberal professors aren’t there to teach you, they are there to teach you “how to think,” and hey, they got to get paid some serious coin from Uncle Sam in the process (all guaranteed by the tax layers of course).
You graduate Columbia law school or business school with no real skills and you go to work for McKinsey or Cravath. YAY!!!! You are rich under the current tax code, which was written in the 40s and 50s and assumed stable and humane employment. You make 190k a year working 100 hours a week for people who absolutely hate their lives. Half your money goes to taxes because, hey, you are rich, so that 190k becomes 85k. You have to live in NYC or San Fran or DC for those jobs, so you pay another 40k in rent (and that’s cheap). You are down to 45k. You have to pay your loans off (3k a month minimum if you want them gone in under a decade). You are left with 10k. You rich bastard! If you manage to survive working like that for a decade, you have a zero net worth you rich bastard and maybe you can have what an autoworker in 1965 had by the time you are 60. 99 percent burn out and have nothing.
Orite, so you don’t go to college, you get the message. You learn a trade. You learn a trade, but wait! An undocumented alien is willing to do your job for half the price and for cash compensation. This works for the undocumented alien because he or she can use the money to build a real life in his or her home country and he or she can have many expenses subsidized by the government because he or she isn’t declaring the cash as income. You aren’t down with this? You racist!
This is how social mobility ends.
Now are both parties complicit on the tax front? Absolutely. Is Joe Biden going to raise taxes on billionaires? Absolutely not. Is Donald Trump going to raise taxes on billionaires? Absolutely not. Is Joe Biden going to accelerate outsourcing and maybe even provide tax benefits for outsourcing? Absolutely. Is Joe Biden going to increase taxes on “rich” W-2 minions working 100 hours a week, up to their eyeballs in debt, and making 150-300k a year in the most expensive parts of the country where that income barely affords you 600sqft of living space? Absolutely. Is Donald Trump going to tax the minions like this or outsource like crazy? Absolutely not. Is he not going to do this because he’s a nice guy? No, he just knows the country is literally over (and his dynasty along with it) if we keep enriching a hostile foe at the country’s expense.
Are Rhinos just as disgusting as Democrats? Absolutely. The pandemic proves this. We just bailed out the banks, the rich, etc. in spectacular fashion, and these assholes are complaining about sending the serfs some sheckles to the serfs so they can avoid bankruptcy.
At the end of the day though, there is no future when the employer class can demand that the Western workforce be relegated to the status of concentration camp workers (that’s what’s going on in China). Rhinos tell me this is good for me because [fill in the blank bullshit trickle down economics theory], and I laugh at them, and everyone else laughs at them. Democrats tell me that if I don’t like this, I’m a racist and everyone doesn’t laugh at that...
So yeah, the Democrats might be in for a rude awakening in November or maybe not. But if Uncle Joe wins, this country deserves what it gets. Let him outsource the entire fucking country so his son can get kickbacks and have orgies. The country ultimately deserves what it deserves.
One final note, if you think we are divided now, just wait a few more months until someone, probably on the right, decides to fire bomb the last taboo: public sector employees. Rhinos tell me cops are underpaid. Democrats tells me teachers are underpaid. What I know is that George Floyd’s killer has a vested pension worth in excess of a million dollars. What I know is that the public sector in the blue cities is vastly overpaid to its private sector counterparts, and what I know is that since they are completely insulated from the economic consequences of this virus and outsourcing, both a consequence of unfettered globalization, they flat out don’t give a shit about the millions of small businessss fighting to survive. I also know that that’s why they have no problem enforcing these lockdown orders with such callous hubris. I also know that the billionaires don’t pay their salaries because they don’t pay taxes, but the private sector minions battling for survival are on the hook for pensions and benefits that dwarf what’s available in the private sector (because of the private sector).
The party is just getting started no matter who wins in November.
Well done. I hate to be that guy, but a couple of points. The Democrats and Republicans agree on almost everything of importance. And the elites are worldwide; there are oligarchs in China too. But your description of oligarchs wanting to create a vast worker pool that spans continents is dead on. Financialized capital is frictionless and crosses borders at a keystroke. Labor on the other hand will be controlled in ghettos. This is the grotesque outcome of capitalism itself, or at least our current form of it.
As far as the election, I think the Democrats will expect everyone to settle down now that the Orange Monster they created and hyperventilated over is gone. They will be wrong because, as we all know, their leadership has no idea what goes on in the so-called real world.
They won't be able to blame Trump for violent protests, and they will be absolutely flummoxed as to what to do next.
That was an absolutely awesome summing up. It leads to the conclusion that the young white people in the streets, whether they already know it or not, are beginning a class struggle from the bottom to resist the long established class struggle from the top.
But I think the fire bomb you mention has already been thrown. If we are to avoid fascism we must defund the police ASAP.
I beg to differ. These young people (of all races and creeds, and whether they know it or not) are funded by billionaires whose sole priority is to sow chaos so globalism can continue unencumbered. In other words, they are initiating a race war to distract from the class war waged by the oligarchy against the masses (that’s why the corporations are paying BLM leadership millions).
It is conceivable that you are right. Where I live I don't think anyone has even done a demonstration, except there was a cavalcade of people in cars blowing their horns, so I can't be sure what is on their minds. However it is hard to believe that most young people don't know very well that they've been screwed, and that they don't resent it.
I shouldn't have said "young white people". It is all those people. This is a general uprising of the n*****s, and the black n*****s no doubt have much useful experience to share.
I beg to differ a bit: 1) My undocumented workers have NEVER charged half of what citizens charge!! Indeed, next time I have my house cleaned, I’ll be using Americans rather than my undocumented ladies. Why? The Americans are CHEAPER! 2) At most, my undocumented workers charge a tiny percentage less than Americans. There is so much work here for everybody, right now, that both documented and undocumented seem to be doing really well...at least where I live. 3) Life is often not as B and W as u describe. That Columbia grad lawyer’s grandpa dies, leaving him enough to pay off half his student debt. He runs into a buddy from college who lucked out on a rent stabilized apt. and asks him to be his room mate. They need no car cause they have good public transportation. He works at a huge Manhattan firm for 5 years. Now, his loans are paid off and he can afford to get his own place. He continues doing great at the firm, eventually, he’s made a junior partner. He meets a successful female attorney from another firm who has just made partner. She’s an only child of a CT investment banker and her parents are recently deceased. She’s used the estate her folks left her to buy an apt. on the UWS. They marry. He moves into her place. At a party he learns there is an opening to teach at Columbia Law School, even though he could make more money at his firm. He decides to leave the firm and to teach at his alma mater. He has a wife, an apt. no student loan debt, and a job offering him not only a salary but lots of free time. See, I can do that too.
I guess it is a matter of opinion. To me, his story sounds convincing and yours sounds like a load of shit.
I’d be shocked if you aren’t a boomer. The outlier nature of the story aside, what gives it away is “at a party he learns there is an opening to teach at Columbia law school.”
I’d explain to you why this is virtually impossible, but I’d be speaking to deaf ears (or writing for blind eyes).
In any event, outliers don’t make a society. The kind of extreme outlier you just described is possible in most countries on the planet. What makes a society great is a strong, stable and functioning middle class. A strong, stable and functioning middle class is inconsistent with globalization AND (simultaneously) mass immigration.
Regarding undocumented aliens, your experience is indeed vastly different than my experience (with extensive contacts in both the restaurant industry and the construction industry). My experience is that the undocumented aliens are extremely hard working people, but they are paid in cash in order to take advantage of the welfare system. They don’t do this because they are had people, they do it because that’s the only way they can survive.
Matt is a phenom, that is why I subscribe to his stack. I love his writing.
I’m saying, let’s stop pussyfooting over here: the Democrats are the primary advocates for globalization at this moment in time.
As a disaffected lefty I'm ashamed for being part of the crowd that said "How could they vote against their own self-interests?" Fuck identity politics!
Let’s make this a confession time: we were saying this during the Bush years without reading Frank’s book anyways.
In fairness to both of you, Bush was genuinely a terrible president (and I'm a conservative). The Iraq War was a train wreck, and everything he touched seemed to go awry.
Bush totally trashed and burned the conservative brand, between No Child Left Behind and the Iraq fiasco. Thanks a lot Dubya.
Dubya, clown dumbass of the treasonous Bush clan. Not interested in hearing anything from that family until they disown Comrade Neil Bush of the CCP...
Deeply bizarre how many "liberals" are falling all over themselves to praise Bush in contrast to Trump. I genuinely dislike both but Bush was the torture president. He sanctioned fucking torture! He wasn't more humane or decent---he was just less gauche and embarrassing than Trump.
I am a strong civil libertarian on the right. In my view, we've had three devastating attacks on our norms of individual rights and constitutional process in the last 20 years: (1) authorization of torture under Bush; (2) the claim that the government can seize a US citizen on US soil and deny habeas corpus and all due process rights if they label him a terrorist (Jose Padilla), again under Bush; (3) the attempt to destroy and remove a duly elected president through the Russian collusion hoax manufactured by political operatives working with allies in the FBI and intelligence services. It's still not clear if our constitutional republic will survive the last one.
I went to a protest over the weekend (in Kansas) which opened with a round of speakers. Everything was going like normal with speaker after speaker reciting wokeist cant. Then this guy from a local socialist group (yeah, I guess we have that) got up and made a speech through the lens of class. He was critical of identity politics (which had been on full display in all the speeches before his) for its divisiveness and the way in which it ends up doing to us exactly what elite propaganda does to us; it prevents us from seeing our common interests and banding together. He called for getting past that so we could get on to the business of starting a real revolution. This guy got, by far, the biggest pop of everyone when he was done, and this from a crowd of confirmed wokesters. I thought that was interesting, heartening, and maybe a little instructive. Maybe it shows that identitarianism, no matter how strong it's looking, is fading and enough people are starting to smell the bullshit in time to turn things around.
I'm a knuckle-dragging conservative, but I'll take a class warrior over a woke identitarian any day of the week. I can talk to a socialist. We're really just disagreeing about how to get the most stuff to the most people. But the wokesters are preaching hate based on your immutable characteristics. They should really go for bowling and beers with David Duke and Richard Spencer; they have so much in common.
https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg
To your point about the shocking parallels, watch this for a big laugh.
That is so spot on.
I agree that it signals the beginning of fading, but you did say it was in Kansas so it hardly has much to say about the timeline to full penetration.
Sure, but there are many other signs that a path out of the cave has been discovered and more and more people are filing out.
I think the use of identity politics to kill the Sanders campaigns in both cycles woke a lot of people up to the fact that it can and will be used to thwart genuine reform, that it is in fact a tool for accomplishing just that. Plus some influential people have lately coalesced around a pretty powerful and convincing critique which is gaining traction (not as much as one would like, but it's something).
That's great news.
For sure. You look online at the discourse and it seems an impossible task. Just hate, hate, hate. But then you go out in the real world and people are pretty damn reasonable. Just show them respect, listen to what they're saying, and don't assume the worst of them and you can, without doing too much work, get to what you hold in common and go from there.
I had a discussion with an avowed conservative neighbor, a meat-cutter at Costco, that was more interesting than most of what I see in the NYT. He said "You can't just say 'Orange man bad,' and expect that to work." I agreed. Then we bonded over our dislike of Democrats, hahaha
Yeah, not sure running "Not Trump" on the ticket is gonna inspire an especially wide turnout.
Man, the best conversations I'm having these days come when I get a chance to talk to conservatives. It's such a strange thing talking with liberal friends and having to be super careful to cover all my woke bases, whereas with conservatives I feel completely free. (And it's nice having outlets to vent about Dems). I grew up thinking this was the side of free and protected expression and to watch it mutate the way it has has been totally surreal.
Could not agree more. I'm new to the political scene, and always considered myself a democrat or liberal. But I value a conversation, and a sense of humor. Both of which seem to be hard to find from many of my liberal friends.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm just not engaging with more interesting democrats, or not listening to enough democratic liberal podcasts, etc. But it feels like that isn't the case.
It's the strangest thing, but it wasn't long ago that practically all the funniest, most charming and interesting people you'd find would be somewhere on the left. They're still around, but I think they tend to be older folks who have lived through some shit. People who don't know of any other world but the one in the internet age, I'm afraid, have been poisoned by something. (Large generalization of the "kids these days" variety, I know, but still).
An absolute tour de force of truth. Thank you, Matt. So pleased to be a subscriber.
Thank you for more insightful writing. Our leaders (government) are failing the American people. As a middle class family, we struggle with high taxes, bums and junkies in our neighborhoods and the decline of our ever more expensive education and healthcare system. My family feels politically homeless. Laws are enforced inconsistently. We are socially liberal, churchgoing and volunteer in our community. We abhor Trump's rhetoric but hate the Dems continuous condescension that we are somehow racist and/or selfish for loving our imperfect country and wanting out-of-control government spending to be reigned in. We are actually trying to preserve a worthwhile country for the future.
I get it, you sound like a good person, but please be careful about condescension going the other way. Calling people “unpatriotic” or “not real Americans” or “communists” simply because they disagree about specific policies is also a form of condescension. The right has been doing this to its opponents for quite some time, certainly much longer than the last few election cycles. It’s just become a lot more strident recently.
And they never stop. The Covid 'narrative' is one that is an exquisite divider. Watching John Lewis' funeral was an exercise in watching everyone do everything that we proles are not allowed to do, while the Elite ignore what all can see and say nothing about the obvious double, or triple, standard. I am a NYC resident, teaching in a NY public high school, and I can see what Mr. Taibbi is talking about with laser-like clarity. Everything written above is only getting more severe. Ever try explaining to a 15yr old black girl why she wasn't allowed to bury her older brother 6 weeks ago, but pols packed into a church are ok? If your answer to that question is lots of word salad, you're missing the point.
It always amazes me to hear journalists refer to the New York Times as if its influence on the body politic is overwhelming, when, in fact, virtually nobody in the USA reads it. The Times' influence outside a myopic elite is almost zero, and now that they have embraced Nicole Hannah-Jones's hatred for white people and US history as official editorial policy, their continued irrelevance and decline is assured.
Consider that the elite have the most practical power.
Not on target. NYT science, books, certain other sections, are best in the country. It's only government, politics, and world news that have been bastardized beyond recognition -- so far, anyway.
NYT Science has been almost exclusively Health or Environment for the last few decades. They write very little about the other sciences.
And even there the news is quite dumbed down. They do have occasional articles from a physics and astronomy reporter that are passably good, but nothing else that I think of. They let their best environment reporter Revkin go. Tn general the science stinks, as do the lowbrow book reviews. The business section is the best stuff in the paper.
I read it. It costs a dollar per week which makes sense for poor people like me. There are certain well defined topics chosen by the Owner where the news and editorials are outrageous lies, but otherwise it is not too bad, and it contains some good writing and interesting investigative reporting. I get to put my two cents in by making comments on much of the material. What else would you suggest?
If they hate white people I guess I haven't noticed because I hate them even more. I am said to be white but I don't identify with it. I hardly identify with "people". They are a scurvy lot. Including you apparently.
Actually it sounds like your misanthropy and innate sense of superiority fit in well with the Times' demographics.
Statistically you may be right. But in reality they are assholes and I am not.
You have someone to vouch for you?
My sister and her husband fall into this coastal, liberal elite. Both are in an absolute freakout over Trump and have the nastiest POV of people NOT from the Northeast or CA or a major city.
Both think black people should be arming themselves.
Neither one of them has EVER lived outside the wealthy little bubble they reside in.
I on the other hand spent 6 yrs in the military and I have lived all over the country. Then, my work has taken me to a lot of other places like Iowa and New Mexico and Texas.
I am absolutely stunned by the difference between my sisters perceptions and the realities that I have experienced.
Why shouldn't black people arm themselves? White racists are armed up big time. Of course the cops wouldn't stand for it. We would have to get rid of either black people or cops. There are a lot more black people than cops.
No kidding. In most major cities blacks are heavily represented on the police force-and for the most part behave like cops-ie-they see “blue” before they see black or white. There are plenty of great black cops and bad apples as well.
It would be in their interest to have the white cops think so, but it might not be true.
Yes. I was thinking about that. It is a peculiarly conflicted position to be in.
This squares with what I get when I discuss issues with my conservative friends in my own age group. We've had the political choice between Republican or Democrat framed as a religious one where we have to justify it at a moral level and the media is all too willing to play both sides of the game to alleviate this moral quandary and give us the needed justifications either via outright lies or more subtle messaging. It works, we've become content to deride and demean each other over meaningless trivialities and to stop talking about the things we really care about.
When I talk to a conservative outside of the talking points pushed by the media we start to find common ground pretty quickly on a variety of issues.
1. No one should go hungry in this country.
2. No one should be homeless in this country.
3. We need to care for the mentally ill and disabled.
4. No one should have to work until they die with no hope of retirement benefits.
5. Everyone should be able to get affordable healthcare.
6. No one should have to live in a polluted environment.
These are issues that everyone can generally agree on, the only thing we can't seem to agree on is who is responsible and how to fix them. The fear instilled in the public about these issues and their solutions is palpable. People fear for their own livelihood, because we live so precariously. Even before the pandemic one serious illness or the loss of a key job in an area with few of them and you can go from living a nice middle class lifestyle to being homeless in the span of a few months.
The responsibility for these issues lies with those that have the fiscal and political power to change them. The politicians and corporations that keep the status quo in play and keep the fear alive.
Bernie Sanders was vilified by the media on both sides and yet when I talk to 2016 Trump voters many of them saw Bernie as a legitimate choice over Trump in this election and certainly over Biden. By the time the primary was decided (though crazily I've not even gotten to vote in my state) Bernie had been labeled a racist, a sexist, a rich elitist and a tool of the gun lobby and that's just on the liberal side.
Then the pandemic occurred and proved that everything he had been saying, for decades over and over again, was correct.
Yet here we sit with the unenviable choice of two aged incompetents peddling whatever bullshit they think people want to hear. One of them doubling down on his natural ability for passing the blame to whoever is within reach and the other scooping up large swaths of Bernie's playbook in a replay of Mr Hope and Change himself with the same end game of keeping the status quo in place.
I understand the nihilism of those willing to vote for Trump and burn the country to ground just to spite the Democrats for their hubris in playing the same fucked up game all over again, but I get the feeling that those people aren't going hungry right now or alternatively, to avoid going hungry, going to work every day wondering if they are going to catch Covid-19 and die.
My suspicion is that you miss the distinction when you state your "things we all agree on" above.
Many conservatives agree with those statements but see them as a call for the system to be set up in such a way that individuals have the opportunity to achieve those outcomes. This is certainly true of 1-5. Whereas for you I suspect, 1-5 are a call for the government to provide those things directly rather than creating a system where individuals have the opportunity to provide for themselves.
In addition, most of those are subject to words that are not specific enough to show real agreement. The definition of polluted is hardly fixed since some consider CO2 a pollutant (it isn't). The same would be true of words like "affordable."
Few Trump supporters see Bernie as a legitimate choice though no doubt you can find some. The Pandemic didn't prove anything that Bernie was saying was correct. This time, he ran on $100 trillion in new spending over 10 years...that's nearly tripling federal outlays with not a hope in heck of paying for it. And he's dragging old uncle Joe to the same crazy place.
Joe has no plan to fix the income situation in this country. Trump's push to repatriate manufacturing is probably the best of a series of bad ideas to address some very thorny issues.
If I wanted to participate in the same repetitive bullshit where we parse out terminology and meaning into whatever leads us to the same old bullshit talking points I'd go over to Fox News or the NYT comment sections.
Turns out you have no need to participate here at all should you choose not to.
And your response was hardly productive.
Enjoy your day.
I don't agree with half of that and I'm a centrist.
Which half?
Doesn't matter... what does matter is that Political Economist laid out why and you didn't engage with their argument. I think you're missing things, and when you build a track record of civility I'll be happy to engage about my thoughts. If I want to see people calling each other's ideas BS I'll go to the NYT or Fox News comments sections.
Political Economist laid out some assumptions about what I am and who I am and how I view the world without knowing anything about me and then used that to frame his whole response. So, I assumed, not knowing him, that he is a gigantic asshole and not worthy of a real response.
I'll give you the same benefit of the doubt.
What assumptions did I make? Which of them were inaccurate?
Happy to learn if you have specifics. If not, no need to reply.
I said "you're not worthy of my response until you're civil", and your response is saying uncivilly that I'm not worthy of your response. I couldn't agree more!
Well said!!