Q&A with the author of "Revolt of the Public"
I am a little bothered by your question Matt lumping Joe Rogan and Alex Jones together and your guest then describing them (this lumped-together coupling) as "marginal actors with strange ideas". I'm sorry, did I miss something? Is Joe Rogan a marginal character with strange ideas? I think he is a brilliant interviewer. I notice he is anti-interventionist. I notice he asks reasonable questions about social issues that others are increasingly afraid to ask. So this lumping of him together with Alex Jones as a marginal actor with strange ideas makes me wonder about Gurri. Does Gurri even know who Rogan is? Or did he assume that he was an Alex Jones-type person based on the question?
The answers you gave to your hypothetical question to Margaret Sullivan, whoever she is, accurately depict the cluelessness of much of today's media. Unfortunately you lump yourself in that category when you insert this into your last question "How much more or less bleak does the picture look now, after four years of Donald Trump? It looks possible that his legacy will be the delegitimization of electoral politics, ..."
Donald Trump, scoundrel he may be, was constantly attacked even before he took office. As your guest noted "When Trump won in 2016, the elites refused to accept his legitimacy." No other President has ever received the treatment he received yet he still made it through four years of constant fire; but you still try to affix a pile of blame on him. As for the "delegitimizing electoral politics", why not attribute that to the people who were quickly changing electoral laws and procedures up to the week of voting, that's where the delegitimizing took place amigo. As I have stated here before, I was quite skeptical of Trump but between the treatment he received and the few accomplishments he as able to achieve, I now think he did a pretty good job.
I enjoy much of what you write but I wouldn't throw folks like Margaret Sullivan under the bus because you might belong under the bus too.
Your statement "he finds some of that failure in the habit of setting expectations too high, deceiving the public into misunderstanding “the reality of what democratic governments can achieve.” reminds me of Obama's "new normal" comment.
They seem to be saying alternately: forget about what your founding fathers told you of the possibility of a just government, individual sovereignty, and the American dream - those are pipe dreams. We seem to be advised to accept that the powers that be know better than we about what's good for us and our country (populists!). And that the powers that be prefer to have their employees oversees where they are cheap and the regulation that defend our environment, scarce. So get used to unemployment rotting away the middle class and enduring freedom restricting regulations to control the pollution we aren't the ones creating. While getting plied with lots of pharmaceuticals, both legal and illegal. (Some do manage to keeps us docile)
Adjust your expectations, people.
The foundational premise that this article is missing is that the 6 media empires that control the worldwide narrative are selling false narratives to Americans and the rest of the world on purpose- for profit and control.
The billionaires believe themselves to be a ruling class, far above the hoi polloi, who aren't worthy of the truth, only of exploitations. And although this has gone on since the beginning of time, it has become a critically important reality that needs to be understood IN THIS MOMENT of time.
The New World Order is upon us. They are getting close to their Great Reset with their agenda 2021 which got pushed to 2030, (due partly to the Trump reprieve). It's not about making a better world for the people of the world, as their propaganda prolifically promulgated by their media empires claims, it's about money, a widely available population reduction agenda and control. (Vaccine passport, anyone?) (check out Open Society Foundation etc.- anything supported by Soros)
Sounds like dystopian fiction doesn't it? Do your own research, but don't use Google, it's CIA (per Julian Assange. https://wikileaks.org/google-is-not-what-it-seems/)
I agree with Trump being a symptom. Loss of faith in our “elites” and institutions. The reaction to Trump was MUCH scarier then Trump. Government sanctioned spying on an opposition candidate. Lying. More lying. Corrupt and rigged election. The elites managed to destroy many norms in “protecting” us from Trump.
Thanks, Matt. Excellent interview. I hope people in the msm will read this, but fear they're too preoccupied with trying to beat their viewers/readers into submission. And the more msm tries to get QAnon, Alex Jones, Fox, etc banned, the more msm just turns into stuffy versions of the conspiracy theorists they want us to think they're protecting us from.
And this is why I gladly pay for this subscription!!!!
We need so much more writing about Trust.
I can think of hundreds of examples of how the public trust has been diminished over time from all ends of the political spectrum - Fauci initially saying that masks are not necessary, to weapons of mass of destruction, to Geithner foaming the runways for the Banks, to how our deep state intelligence apparatus spies upon daily, uses algorithms to track our data/behavior, and pushes false memes like Venezuela is dangerous, Syrian chemical weapons, or COINTELPRO stopped in the 70s.... Our President going on live television - saying I am not a crook or I did not have sex with that women, Miss Lewinsky.
Trust and betrayal are wedded in this culture where democracy is just a clown mask for corrupt oligopoly. We need more content on how trust works as a means of resistance. Thanks Matt.
Adam Curtis examines the failure of liberal government systems, positing that they eschewed leadership for systems management. But capital is now managing the systems, corporate and finance structures have eclipsed the role of government. Where government is required, the outcome is dictated by capital. Hence the politicians have become mostly meaningless. No longer concerned with leading, and their management role greatly reduced, they have become empty media figures. From Trump to AOC, cheerleaders for cultural demographics. Bought this guys book. Cool interview.
Wonderful, but too short!
Gurri is really great, and like you Matt, he seems to have his finger on this moment like few others. I’d love to hear a weekly series (maybe a limited podcast) of the two of you discussing these issues at length, with an occasional guest.
I get the sense that Matt may be the "missing link", the only one to survive the media's mass extinction event...
My favourite line in the Interview "But all the techniques of control wielded by the elites are, like their dreams, stuck in the 20th century and ineffective in the current information landscape".
A perfect statement that can be applied to any area of our lives today-- medicine (COVID), education, politics (older and more patrician leaders), corporations/economics, finance, religion,-- its daunting but beautiful to be in the midst of this paradigm shift.
We need to take responsibility and reflect upon what we want and work with the existing roots (as Gurri states) of the hierarchal base. Change the base so it includes us instead of eliminating us. This is not what the WEF, big tech, governments/ billionaire, WHO decision makers want. They see us as the problem-- we get in the way of their "efficiencies (sic)" and control.
My strategy for the short term pain is to support my community, use my skills to help build alternative ways/structures for doing things and mostly ignore the trolls, live my life-there is always a way to get what you really want, it just takes work. My new definition of a troll is the elites and their minions whether govt, media or popular cultural figures. They are all shilling for the past arcane structures. Their privilege, money, power and influence all depend upon it. They are definitely not shilling for us-- don't feed the trolls.
I think I disagree with Gurri's assessment of the internet; the tech giants have a more comprehensive stranglehold than he admits. Seems like he's buying into the initial idealism of the web. But haven't read his book yet.
“The American people may be undergoing a psychotic episode, but they are fundamentally sensible.” This is, indeed, optimistic. Makes me smile in the moment. I don’t know whether it’s true.
Yes! Before the elites could make tidy little, QUIET agreements with the 4th Estate:
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years… (censorship)…It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.
Now being " subjected to the lights of publicity" is out of their hands. Perhaps "Autodetermination" will return to the masses or we will lose it forever to the omnipotent elites.
It seems like the advent of big media, in the form of newspapers, had a similar situation, called Yellow Journalism. News was secondary to political influence. I would agree that what we are witnessing is the end of big time media as we understood it. They were in their death-throes trying to do whatever they can think of to maintain relevance. They will not be successful and will leave the stage pretty much the same way they entered it.
I have to admit I wasn't familiar with this guy before. He sounds absolutely great and I will be picking up his book. Great read, Matt.