472 Comments

I've said this before and will say it again: They should all be required to wear prominent patches on their suits of their "sponsors." Think of NASCAR. So you should see patches for Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc., all displayed openly and proudly, just like NASCAR drivers.

My biggest worry: Even with "merchants of death" patches on tailored suits, the American people won't care. Or not enough of them to make a difference.

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"They should all be required to wear prominent patches on their suits of their "sponsors." Add a bullseye target to those patches,. LOL

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How about 666 on their forehead?

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Add my Bullseye Target baseball cap for the top of their head so drones can find them.

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@Contrarian

Hey ! I like it. Balanced, symmetrical, and the *height of fashion in financial circles !

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And yet it isn't too gaudy; considering who we are talking about.

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Your second paragraph is accurate- the sheep still wouldn't care.

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Ha, ha! I should have read your comment before posting above!

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The people would see the logos as further signs of prestige.

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Quite possibly...

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>"Think of NASCAR."

Think of Battle-Star Galactic and the new U.S. Space Force.

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As much as I agree that getting out of Afghanistan was a good thing—and should have happened years ago—Joe Biden and the entire US government and military establishment showed how embarrassingly inept, ignorant, ineffectual and just plain awful they were with the failures, lies, spins and finger-pointing when that shit blew up in their face.

The idea that technocrats in DC have any idea what they're doing was absolutely dismantled by this fiasco, which is the thinking that lead to Trump, who'd likely be worse on this front, and we may be delivered again.

I watch Krystal and Saagar, but their "oh, Biden was really great here; what a great speech he had about it," when Biden was in full CYA/finger-pointing mode was nuts, and in lockstep with Ryan Grim, and the rest of the so-called "progressive" wing of the media class. This was embarrassing for all involved, even if you think—as I do—that getting out of Afghanistan was necessary.

Now, this administration is pivoting back to the new "domestic war on terror," censorship and attacks on privacy to go after America's real enemies: people that don't vote for them. Biden should not have been given a pass here; it was part and parcel of his continuing failure.

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The domestic war on terror is just the start of a war on Americans NOT subscribing to the leftist orthodoxy of the media and elitists. Try protesting or resisting and the entire machine of corporate/gov't will cancel you so quick your head will spin. Banks cut off Mike Flynn's credit cards, others are targeting legal gun dealers, Trump banned from social media while the Taliban posts freely -- on and on it goes until it is stopped by any means necessary.

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I don't think it's political so much as financial and ideological, but most American's seem oblivious to endless war abroad and the growing police state here at home. The two have always been directly linked, but people often protest one with no recognition of how they feed on each other. You will never reduce just one. We need to confront both and how they are financially and strategically tied together.

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I agree that this is turning into a dangerous emergency situation for our country, and abandoning Afghanistan was another page of this new, frightening step in our "cold civil war," but I don't think it's in any way "leftist orthodoxy." It's "technocratic orthodoxy," where the old guard neocons (the type who've actually been allowed on the "Jan 6th Commission") and their neoliberal counterparts can paint everyone, and everything, that doesn't agree with them and their commissions, committees, factions and sects beyond the pale.

We are now in the era of the mainstream of our government pushing the Taliban as our allies, and Lynyrd Skynyrd as "America's enemies; and the greatest threat facing our nation," with a cranky old '80s yuppie icon/former reality star waiting in the wings to regain the presidency from the cranky, stuttering old lifetime political committee member. It's both terrifying and hysterical. Were any dystopian science fiction novels this funny or ridiculous?

(Speaking of, if anyone's been upset by the dearth of good Biden comedy when it should be plentiful, Kyle Dunnigan has done it on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTJz6__YePU)

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It is hysterical, funny.

I also agree that the left right by split misses the point.

Trump was an unauthorized president, he gamed the system This informs everything.The elite lost control and will do anything to avoid it happening again. That’s why they are so fluid and changeable , they are on any side of any issue. That’s why sometimes it looks like the lefties are totalitarian‘s and other times it’s the right wingers that look like authoritarians. It’s just the elite controlling the narrative - infinitely malleable.

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founding

Thank you RJF -- thoughtful and wonderfully summarized.

The red-blue division is just system "elite's" distraction for masses.

The elites of both colors are united at swine feeding troughs of the war industry -- they celebrate and grunt there together.

Once again -- thank you for a thoughtful comment.

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The lack of main stream comics not mining this mother lode of Biden material is pretty telling. Trump was a gift that never stopped giving. Except of course the comics on late night wandered into the forest of meanness, rancor and political promotion that made them irrelevant, boring, appearing small minded and desperate. Preaching to the choir doesn't amount to much. The technocrats are usually political blank slates utilizing anything that suites their agenda. For now it is the leftists agenda but at other times the right was their darling.

Joe Biden when you look at his history and past is probably one of the worst and dumbest people to ever ascend to the Presidency. Just his constant lying about everything and nothing, his racist associations and statements as well as his open corruption with his mafia like family might just be the stuff that future historians will marvel at when castigating the stupidity of participatory Democracy. A writer could not sell this character in a novel.

Could list all the horrors of past history within our political system. We've survived them all and moved on without much reflection so as has been said "this too shall pass."

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The future historians will look at the regression from neoliberal empty suit, to incompetent and undecisive narcissist, to senile corrupt corporate prostitute, and finally to clueless, most unpopular but vicious puppet as a clear indication of a political system in deep rot and Empire unravelling from the center towards the periphery. That will be crystal clear to them, but the debate and mystery they will try to figure out will be how this was not obvious to contemporaries of these 4-5 presidents.

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Jim Carrey on snl did Biden and wasn't nice. Jimmy Kimmel and colbert were too much. That's why carson was the master. He went after both sides. I'm a gen x and he was watched by all generations. Dave Letterman was great when he followed Johnny. There isn't anyone on that is funny on any of those shows. Right or left.

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Guess the nice guy without a political agenda, Jay Leno, does not merit mention. Funny without bing condescending, political without being partisan and just a seemly good guy. Got out while the getting was good.

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"Were any dystopian science fiction novels this funny or ridiculous?"

It's Philip K. Dick's world. We just have to live in it.

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Grisha Beetle - I just got a 'rat line call' from Mark Mothersbaughs lawyer - and - U R easter island 'strictly commercial' figures are to REMOVE THEIR FLOWER POT HATS....

it's a 'get em out' by Friday (unlike the Biden Bugout) order - sans an affidavit

DEVO IS NOT LAUGHING THIS COPYWRITE VIOLATION OFF....

Best Philip K. Dick Quotes

94. "The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words."

- Philip K. Dick.

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The Dicksters observation does speak highly of your choice of icon's Beetle - the 'silent' sentient statues of Easter....well played - or should I say - visually 'said'....Grisha

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we have missed U R wicked funny stuff...

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For dystopian SciFi, although it is based on eugenics theory, C.M. Kornbluth's "The Marching Morons" is worth a look for its social and political points.

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Your misdefinition of the root cause of the problem prevents you from contributing to a solution.

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Wesley Yang - “ authoritarian utopianism“.

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Removed (Banned)Sep 5, 2021
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That’s a lot of concepts. Successor ideology is pure arrogance, free speech, due process are unnecessary because they believe they are in possession of the truth and the election of Trump demonstrated that their fellow citizens are not only untrustworthy but also quite dangerous and must be shouted down. Very nasty, nascent true believers, history is littered with the handy work of conviction.

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Boom!

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"the entire US government and military establishment showed how embarrassingly inept, ignorant, ineffectual and just plain awful they were"

I want to bring in another perspective. I would say the entire US government and military establishment showed how AMAZINGLY EXPERT, SOPHISTICATE, EFFECTIVE they were.

In my perspective the aim of the military establishment always was to enrich contractors. And, as far as I can see, they did this well. Just consider how they are all against leaving now. Why? Because they don't want to let the cash cow go.

This goes back to my comment above about systemic corruption. Blaming politicians or the military establishment will not change much. We need to change the system. One obvious idea is to better separate corporate power from government. Separation of powers is an old idea, but rarely discussed when it comes to corporations.

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Relax. They’ve already got their next scam set up and ready to go. It’s called “Infrastructure.” Watch as Raytheon bids on transportation and technology projects that cost 5X what the private sector spends for the identical product. Watch the defense contractors buy up companies that will rig the bids on all the vast outlays the Dems are planning on shoving through with the smallest majority in the history of our country. If we don’t stall that second bill until after the midterms watch America get $1 trillion worth of product for $5 trillion in cash.

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Removed (Banned)Sep 5, 2021
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We're all psychopaths here.

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Oh, I don't disagree with the fact that Afghanistan was essentially a money-laundering pit making untold billions for faceless defense officials. They didn't even hide it that well; I wouldn't call it sophisticated. I also totally agree that essentially all of the players in DC need to be replaced—and the huge money connections need to be removed—to even begin to change this fact.

But, my point that the withdrawal was about as big a SNAFU as imaginable stands. Sure, they spent 20 years doing nothing and openly moving trillions of dollars around and enriching defense contractors, but the entire establishment really seemed to think that the puppet government—that was only propped up by the US military's presence—was a sound one. It was proof that for 20 years, nobody in charge knew what the fuck they were doing.

Sure, we need to remove the money from DC, but we have to remove these idiots too. There's just no spin on this situation that is justified that doesn't have Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush and almost everybody in the upper echelons of the government and military looking ultimately incompetent, or worse.

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One wonders what is taught in US military academies these days, and what is the criteria of graduating? Isn't organized retreat and evacuation the most basic competency of any army? Contrast and compare with Soviet withdrawal, which was planned over a year in advance, well executed with active rearguard operations, and takeover by local forces that fought on for almost 3 years after last Soviet soldier left. This Afghan "government" folded while there were thousands of NATO troops in the country.

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That's why this was planned to be a fiasco. I'm not sure if it is to enrich contractors, try to give us a reason to stay, import thousands of terrorists from Afghanistan or what, but there is absolutely no way our military doesn't know how to retreat, evacuate civilians and friendlies behind a perimeter and the military leaving last.

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I actually think it is incompetence, pure and simple. Why? Because it was not done in last 30 years - military was tasked only with ever more expansion, ever more bases and outposts, and even modest proposals to consolidate, retreat (from most peaceful places where there is really no reason to be any more, such as Germany) have been met by veritably fury by flocks of chicken**it hawks in Congress and their MSM echo chambers. Funny how to start any wars, Congress finds way to avoid its constitutional obligations (AUMF and Patriot Act are at this point stretched beyond any limits of sanity), but as soon an idea is floated to withdraw, accusations of "high treason" start flying. This is truly the stuff how Empires die, as they lose internal feedback loops that brings them back to align with reality of "too many provinces, too few legions". Even the Romans realized that at some point and vacated two huge provinces - Dacia (275) and Britannia (410). These acts definitely helped preserve the core for at least a while. Our "senate" and "emperors" obviously have no such pragmatic wisdom.

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It's good to hear a different take than mine. I don't know which perspective is worse, yours or mine. I have a kid in the army so this is super personal to me.

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Removed (Banned)Sep 5, 2021
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"The audits were simply ignored."

Yup.

This is a #metoo comment: SIGAR did great work. It was comprehensively ignored because it didn't fit the narrative. Nothing happened. No one will be held accountable. The work is ultimately useless.

If you were to ask me 10 years ago whether I would rather work at SIGAR or a turnip farm, I would vote turnip farm. At least you get turnips, eventually.

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Compare if you will the response to what was 'ignored' via the Pentagon Papers....

'The New York Times began publishing excerpts on June 13, 1971; the first article in the series was titled "Vietnam Archive: Pentagon Study Traces Three Decades of Growing US Involvement". The study was dubbed The Pentagon Papers during the resulting media publicity.'

Track the effort and attention paid via the Church Commission and then next twenty years of political activity - following the cost of the final evac from Saigon...

With were we are now.

Our broken forces were not revived until Operation Desert Storm - and - since Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and post 9-11 - EVERY DOPE IN THE PEOPLES HOUSE HAS BEEN ON THIS GRAVY TRAIN...and led us to this point...

Except Donald J Trump - who announced from the moment he claimed Jerusalem as our flag in Israel - to his repudiation of Xi and his gangsters with his defense of the Westphalian Pact in Poland - to his consistent rejection of the 'military industrial never-ending-war-inc' whore of babylon cash cow -

And what was the response? -

A SHADOW GOVERNMENT RUN LESS THAN A QUARTER MILE FROM THE PEOPLES HOUSE WHEN THEY DARED ELECT A NON-POLITICAL ENTREPRENEUR...

Comey at FBI - Clapper and Brennen at CIA - and the dedicated efforts of a Media that found a way to make billions destroying represententive democracy...in the most craven and demented way - sick enough to make Gobbles & Stalin proud....

And so...many...more....from the Fed Balance sheet to the attack on King Dollar to the willing embrace of the CCP and any digital currency that can keep their train rolling....

The same clowns that have wrought this fiasco for the world to glare at - that have shit on every sacrifice made - just a few months ago were lecturing us about TRANSGENERISM and a so-called Jan 6th 'insurgency'

(proof positive that Harpers Ferry and John Brown are too 'controversial' for Academy discussion these difficult days)

these kinds of clusterfucks don't just unravel - these are calculations coldly executed....

Pandemic 2.0....sans mandetory masks or ATIFIA GARB....

And a wet sloppy XXX billion kiss via 'swag' to the Mullahs who had to endure the Trumper for a long 4 years....were we got routed by 12TH CENTURY PUNKS - who are barbarically murdering and raping and emulating the Hoards of Attila - while the business as usual crap is spread off the AP wire like it was a nothing burger....

Our Dotard is far more feckless than Chamberlain - and the Prosecutor in waiting from Sacramento? Hardly a cackling Churchill.....

I have seen zero evidence that we are entering some 'cold war' like this is the equivalent of the Berlin Airlift -

Much more like Hitler and the Sudetenland...

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@Mr. Kurz

From your comment above: "We need to change the system." SO rarely said, and SO accurate. All else is 'beating on a dead horse'. However, as long as someone gets *very rich *swinging that horsewhip, all changes will be merely cosmetic. As they have been since, and even often including, WWII.

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I still believe that organization can beat money.

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@A. Kurz

AND I believe that there is "no time like the present *for change.

I just advise that ancient piece of wisdom : "Know Your Enemy".

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An addendum:

Besides Taibbi's fantastic pieces on Afghanistan, one of the best I've read is Martin Gurri's. Martin's appeared in this space and has a very different, but very smart piece on it (though I don't agree with everything there). Excellent and worth a read:

https://www.discoursemagazine.com/politics/2021/08/25/truth-and-consequences-in-afghanistan/

(I do enjoy "Breaking Points," and they have some great discussions and great guests, and it does seem like a model for an independent way forward, but Krystal Ball always has an "unassailable, definitely 100% right, needs to be voted into law right this second" message at all times, and she drops it into every segment, ad infinitum (and Saagar Engeti seems to be allowed only very limited range to disagree). If you tune into "Hill Rising" and watch her replacement, Ryan Grim, he's saying the exact same things. If you get David Sirota's newsletter, he's saying the same exact things too! Hmm, it's like they're texting each other in the morning before they start.

While I do agree with this group on some things, what they're doing is obvious activism, not journalism. It's still better the non-stop assaults at Fox and MSNBC—and there is some actual good stuff happening on "Rising" and "Breaking Points"—but it's still not quite there.)

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We are hopefully in a paradigm shift from "sponsored" free media to a paid subscription mode, that delivers or dies. Magazines were like that in the past and their stories were often well written and went well beyond the headlines of the day. People paid for those subscriptions and now we subscribe on line to individuals with a proven record of impartial and reasoned analysis. It would be nice if the general public were interested enough to pull back from the pig sty of slop offered up by todays corporate and commercial media outlets. But alas it has always been like this with information. Those that care and those just moving with the herd. Just talking with some of my friends can be a trip into the never never land of dis/mis information. Many are pretty successful but on cruise control when it comes to the political landscape and current events. Probably always been thus.

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While I get what you're going for, I'm not so sure that a shift to a greater use of paid subscriptions won't make the echo chamber worse. (That's not to say there aren't OTHER benefits, but...) We have enough of a problem getting people to listen to opposing views for free. How many of them are going to pay for it?

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True but hopefully the "market" will cull the wheat from the chaff. Corporate media seems to have no real incentive to abandon its agenda driven reporting. But you could be correct only time will tell.

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Well MSNBC seems to be an abject failure that's on corporate life support and could not survive without infusions of cash. A market loser.

Fox saw an open field that was very underserved and filled the void and seems quite successful while surrounded by detractors and a hostile legacy media. Often times leftist outlets need to be artificially kept afloat by means outside the market driven models. NPR is dependent on gov't and corporate donations to remain solvent. Very large segments of America just don't listen to these ideologically driven sites. In other words they are ranting and spitting into the wind. Sort of like vanity press books.

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Interesting article, but it is built upon a fatal flaw that "this or that president decides this or that" - in case of Afghanistan, it was clear knowledge for about a decade (and we know this from various leaks, as well as SIGAR documents from the ground) that the war was lost as the goalposts sold to US and "allies" (read: vassals that wanted to show loyalty to empire and opportunistically grab few billions too from the money hose) are not attainable. It was just a matter of time which POTUS would be deemed best candidate to drop the hot potato - Biden as 1 term president with incredibly lenient media treatment, and sufficiently before mid-terms (so that the amnesiac US voters forget about it) fit the bill perfectly. It is ridiculous to suggest that Joe Biden has any leadership or decision making capabilities - even at his sharpest days, much less now with his mind clouded by dementia. Presidents are just "human face" to put on the outcomes of consensus (and sometimes battles) between key lobbies that have captured US government long time ago, main ones being: Israel, MIC, banks, big pharma, big oil.

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Excellent addendum and agree with all your points. Sirota, Grim, etc are allies to the point of being in lockstep and no longer complimentary efforts. Have to go to Greenwald to get more independent thinking and capture the context better.

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Greenwald can be in that same lockstep (to a fault, even) with them when it comes to anti-war issues - which I get - and then he’ll go wildly, radically in a different direction when it comes to privacy and civil liberties. I can disagree with Greenwald - which is how it should be - but sometimes he just gets to the heart and truth of something like nobody else could.

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And Gurri is a real analyst without any apparent hidden agenda like those you mention

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The sad thing is that the Soviet nomenklatura were incompent and venal, yet did a much better job of retreating from Afghanistan than our incompetent and venal nomenklatura.

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founding

There were mothers involved--.Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers’ role in breaking the taboo on dedovshchina in the Soviet military in the late 1980s.

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I am looking forward to the impending Biden dementia meltdown

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Impending?

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It's gotta get to the point where even his proponents are unable to deny that there's anything wrong with him. Right now they're still saying "That video of him rambling about the man in the moon and stuff at the town hall was deceptively edited!" and "He didn't actually fall asleep while meeting with Naftali Bennett, you can see him talking and moving, come on!"

I think these people will only shut up or even admit that he's unfit for office if he, say, sits on the podium and evacuates his bowels all over it or something.

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Unfortunately, the annointed one of the most unpopular Democrats as his VP as the age-old "presidential insurance policy," and she's become even more unpopular in recent months, so they're hiding her.

Just let the man free-form it at this point, I say. Let's see how weird this shit can get. I don't think we've even scratched the surface of weirdness yet.

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She could not raise money or get past the Iowa primaries. In effect we will be getting an APPOINTED president IF Joe goes anymore bonkers. No one voted for her during the election of 2020. It was either a vote for Biden or a vote against Trump -- not a vote for Harris. Ms Harris is not electable to any office outside of California and even there that is now doubtful.

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You keep mentioning about a primary? As in voters? What are U talking about - Globalist Democrats have a 'better way'...and it is too important for voters to mess it up....

That you still believe there is a 'process' that includes voters is what is 'weird'....

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The DNC is going to actively shove Kamala down our throats in 2028 and nobody's going to like her then either. She had the kindest media coverage in the 2020 primaries and couldn't make it to Super Tuesday. Nobody likes her.

(And yes, 2028. You know Biden's doddering ass is running it back in 2024. God knows what that'll look like. Equal parts hilarious and depressing, probably)

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You think he's gonna make it to '24? I am slavering with excitement for the Repub primary circus, although I'm not sure anything can beat '16.

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DNC is going to go with Mayor Pete.

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"It never got weird enough for me." --HST

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Evacuate his bowels - ya gave me a good belly laugh.

Part of the fun is watching the media folks fulfil their obligation to defend him, you can see the look on their face, the embarrassment it causes them.

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Heh, if that's true then you *almost* make me want to watch CNN and/or MSNBC again. XD

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LOL , yes impending, much more to come me thinks.

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Based on what Trump got away with, how do we quantify and address this "meltdown"?

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Trump certainly said stupid-to-insane-to-insanely-stupid stuff on the reg, and I'd estimate that somewhere in the vicinity of 6,928,292,028,024,934 hyperventilating stories were published parsing every syllable down to its atomic content. Colbert cried at least 8 times, on air.

I'd think that one story, in legacy media, about Biden's declining mental acuity would quantify it, or maybe even one bit about Biden being a dipship on SNL, but I'm not holding my breath.

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We need more great humorists mining the motherloads of political satire.

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David Axelrod during the Democratic primaries referred to “Biden performance anxiety - Biden performs his supporters are anxious.”

That got shut down!

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I am just talking about Biden‘s cognitive decline

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@Mr. White

GREAT Question ! ;-D

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As powerful and historic.

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Having mostly only seen Krystal's thoughts on Twitter lately and being disappointed at what appeared to be her giving Biden more credit than he deserved, I was glad to hear her acknowledge that Biden was still doing drone strikes and so on.

I suppose that it took some backbone to even go as far as Biden did and merely pull out normal combat troops while the media and the deep state and other politicians and so on were all attacking him over it, so there's that. But at the end of the day, as I've said elsewhere, we seem to have merely changed tactics in Afghanistan; ground troops mostly gone (except for CIA, special forces, etc) and drone strikes instead. That's exactly what Obama did, which resulted in fewer American casualties but plenty more non-American casualties. And non-American lives matter too.

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I'm being hard on Krystal. I generally appreciate her and her work, but she can be an unapologetic "walking talking point" sometimes.

She's anti-war and anti-imperialism, and that's great; so am I, but she and Saagar went way too far singing Biden's praises when he was failing out loud, in a huge, inept way.

I'm glad everyone's upset about the drone attacks, but they gave him way, way, way too much of a pass, and actually created the "awesome" Biden spin for legacy media to pick up, which is happening now.

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Speaking of drones, did that drone attack that supposedly killed to ISIS-Khorasan villains actually blow up an interpreter's family, or am I confusing two separate U.S. drone attacks in the last 72 hours? If that is what happened, I would expect the media to call out the President and military on this. Does anyone know?

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Is it even possible to find accurate reporting on this at this point?

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It's always a challenge to find accurate reporting. So frustrating.

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Non-American lives matter too - hum!

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I know, crazy talk right?

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You’re terrible (😙) lol

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Not to Biden, apparently.

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Yeah, it doesn't seem so. And even when it comes to his concern for the lives of the troops, I think that might be only because one of his sons happened to have been in one of the war zones. Which led to a big argument with Obama (according to Politico, anyway) during Obama's presidency over staying or leaving Afghanistan, with Biden shouting about how he wasn't going to send his son there because of women's rights or whatever.

But if Beau Biden's life were never endangered in combat, would Biden even want to withdraw troops from ANYWHERE? I can't know, but being the cynic that I am I kind of doubt it.

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This is exactly the reason US has no draft any more.

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Agreed. Both Iraq and Afghanistan should, and could have been six month operations

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They both were, really. Each could have been declared a victory within about 6 weeks militarily - routed the enemy and deposed their government. We have this odd obession with making those we defeat love us. Historically, you enslave or execute all opposition after the military victory. That's not in our DNA, so we should just leave the shouldering crater and let them put it back together. If ever a threat again, rinse and repeat.

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Don't you remember Bush's "Mission Accomplished" speech - but somehow we never think of "victory" as a prelude to actually leaving ...

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Calling the Taliban "the enemy" is nothing but a construct. They never did anything to us, the same way the Vietnamese were never our enemy or did anything to us.

Couple of other things- we never defeated them. Haven't you watched the news the last week?

And I assume you meant "smoldering crater"? How exactly do you leave a place the size of Afghanistan a smoldering crater? And kill tens of millions? What kind of a sick fuck are you?

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Obviously it's a construct, as is a state of war without having been invaded. "Enemy" is whoever the powers that be declare as the enemy - in this case declared by a President and authorized by Congress. Germany was defeated in WWI, to resume hostilities for WWII. "Defeat" and "victory" are constructs, as well, unless overwhelming and complete (the enslaved or executed bit from my last post). When our military invaded, their government fell and military disappeared. That may or may not be victory, but our objectives were never clear. At that point, what to do? I would say withdraw and call it over. The mis-typed "smoldering crater" (deepest apologies for offending your delicate sensibilities), was hyperbolic - you just leave whatever mess you made.

When we remove the muzzle and point our military toward a declared enemy, the reasons should be clear and objectives understood. They weren't...so we spent 20 years accomplishing little objectively. Our military does as asked and executes the order - they have always performed admirably, regardless of piss-poor civilian leadership or political brass.

Finally, what kind of dumb fuck calls someone a "sick fuck" and thinks it is discourse of some sort? Remove that last line and it was nearly an exchange of ideas.

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They should have not been operations at all. They should never have happened.

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Yeah, the fawning over Biden's speech... They should have credited the speech writer.

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@BlackDog

Even the speechwriter needs to be canned ! What a SOLID "nothing burger" of a speech ! 'I committed one of the most clumsy, egregious, bone-headed military errors in *history, and I *stand by every damned dying aspect of it !' So, it is one cut above "the dog ate my homework", but only *one cut.

Biden was installed as a "placeholder". We knew his *extensive history, and it was *thunderously under-whelming, (just to be kind).

Biden's job was simply to be the "un-Trump". Then he had to make a quick decision. Oooops.

But, it IS *also true that our Corporatocracy had FAR more reason to stay than to leave, and Biden from Delaware had *always been a friend to the Corporatocracy . "What to do, what to do ?"

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How about "create a abstract new enemy to spend untold trillions on, but right here in the United States! What could go wrong?"

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I often wonder how there was no one better. I thought beto oRourke might have been a good VP. I knew they were going with Harris and thought why? I didn't get why they picked her when she trashed him and she got no votes in the primaries. Why not pick Corey Booker, kobuchar ... Anyone.

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That whole week or so of Breaking Points was hard to watch...

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They have to dig deeper than the beginning of the offensive. The reason for the "Afghanistan Adventure" has to be properly addressed. Before 9/11 fades into obscurity like the Kennedy assassinations, I would like a deeper, more thorough, aggressively skeptical forensic investigation of the WTC, both the material evidence (oh what it's gone?) and the financial distribution (follow the money) afterward.

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Stone has a new documentary out, being shown at Cannes - JFK Revisited ...

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Oliver Stone's "World Trade Center" puzzled me. I think he was paid by the CIA to do that. Hollywood is propaganda, both subtle and blatant.

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I agree with the link between Hollywood and the CIA influence, but I think Oliver Stone is an exception. His documentaries about Castro and Putin suggest little loyalty to the CIA narrative

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Dunno, never saw it ...

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Among indie journalists, Jimmy Dore seems to have gotten it right.

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Not sure how to put this delicately, but when Biden talks I can hear him working to keep the drool in his mouth.

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founding

Yes. And Ball's comment that, "The media threw everything against him . . ." When has the media thrown ANYthing against Joe, now President, Biden? The only reason the media had to start the inquiry over the exit was because it was hard to ignore bodies falling of the sides of airplanes. Biden wanted the honor, but has acted disgracefully. And there really still is a place for honor in the conduct of nations. He even stiffed our NATO allies.

As for his speech. Just because you speak louder doesn't make you not a liar.

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(One final addendum:

They've added independent leftist Kim Iversen to "Hill Rising" and she can be kooky, but she's pretty great overall.)

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Daily Kos writer Mark Summer has an article with the headline: "Biden declares he 'was not going to extend this forever war' in powerful, historic speech"

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Yes, exactly. All of the self-appointed "progressives" in media were in lockstep praising Biden's really terrible speech blaming both Trump and the Afghani people themselves for the failure. It was a horrible, lying, pass-the-buck, cover-my-ass, you-knew-I-would-be-a-shitty-president speech. They lied about it because they were happy to get out of Afghanistan, and thought pointing at Biden's failure would get us back in Afghanistan.

That's the danger of any faction pushing talking points: when everyone knows you're openly lying, they stop trusting you. It was a big mistake for the DC media progressives to do this.

I like Daily Kos, but Markos Moulitsas seems as broken-brained as any MSNBC drone in recent interviews.

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Powerful and historic...if you edit out all the pauses.

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Powerful and historic....if you edit out all the words, content, and speaker.

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The evacuation dates were set during the Trump administration. After that, it's all about the logistics, so whoever planned and scheduled the flights, etc are responsible for carrying out the order. I guess the generals might have some responsibility.

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"Please provide a few plausible scenarios in which any president could have done worse."

An executive orders, the minions carry out the orders. So it's not about what president could do worse. Talk to the minions.

The Afghanistan evacuation kind of reminds me of when an assignment was due in school: wait to the last minute and then claim that the dog ate it when it couldn't be completed on time.

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I still attempt the read the NY Times, but I feel like when they have a message they're trying to get across (and they always do now), it comes out loud and clear in every single article, newsletter, opinion piece and even recipe for weeks. I haven't done the crossword in quite a while, but I'm sure it's planted there too. It's a bit annoying when you're just trying to find out what the hell's going on, which the Times has become somewhat bad at actually handling.

Likewise, Krystal Ball squeezes her talking points in in such an non-stop, oblique way that it doesn't even make sense with what's being said most of the time. I'm sure it's all-consuming, to the point where we she asks her kids what they want for breakfast, she'll ask "do you want an omelette, cereal or fifteen dollar minimum wage?"

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Kim Iverson was an ardent Andrew Yang supporter when he had relevance. I liked that.

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On a whim, I checked out what Chuck Schumer’s kids do. Amazingly enough both of them are married to people whose work will benefit MASSIVELY from the infrastructure bill. His son-in-law works at Sidewalk Labs part of Google, which is “the urban innovation company — setting ambitious goals with developers and cities to build more sustainable, innovative, and equitable places” Sounds like a nice FAT contract or ten will be heading their way.

After all it has the word “equitable” in its mission statement.

And his other daughters’ spouse? Her wife works for “City Possible” at MasterCard,

City Possible™ helps cities achieve inclusive and sustainable growthJoin our global network of city leaders, academics and technology partners as we create blueprints for more inclusive and sustainable cities.

They have the MAGIC words in their mission statement, too!! What a COINCIDENCE!!

Gosh d’ya think being part of the “majority” leader’s (50-50 tie with VP tiebreaker) family MIGHT be a meal ticket??? But don’t worry, we WILL NEVER KNOW how much money or what benefits these people receive. Because corruption in our banana republic is never reported.

Amazingly, I don’t know anyone who has two kids whose principal income comes from companies that are both focused on “equity, inclusivity and sustainability” in our cities - buzzwords that happen to be the very CORE of the 5 trillion dollar boondoggles being foisted on us by Schumer and Pelosi.

I had no idea that urban equity and sustainability was so popular with politicians’ kids. Maybe that will be Hunter’s next gig??

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Schumer's daughter worked for Facebook, no? And Chuck asked someone on the panel grilling them awhile ago to go easy on the company?

Yep, sorry, here's a link.

https://nypost.com/2018/11/17/schumer-got-50k-in-donations-and-a-job-for-his-daughter-from-facebook/

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Schumer's wife -

"She served as Senior Vice President of the New York State Urban Development Corporation, where she oversaw the development and implementation of the State's overall economic development program. She then held the position of Regional Vice President of Integrated Resources, Inc. where she structured limited partnerships for property acquisition and operation. She then served as President of the Financial Services Corporation, a nonprofit organization which functioned as the financing arm for the City's economic development initiatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Weinshall

From 1988-1996, Weinshall served as Deputy Commissioner for Management and Budget at the New York City Department of Environmental Protection. She also served as the First Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Citywide Administrative Services before being named Commissioner of the city's Department of Transportation, a post she held from 2000 to 2007."

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Hunter's new gig is that he's a full-time artist now. Looks like it's not a bad racket for him.

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NPR pitches restricting freedom of speech while the mainstream media tees up paid propagandists as objective experts. We are screwed.

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"paid propagandists " Educating others around that is a bitch. There is strength in numbers so stay with it.

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Pretty surreal, isn't it?

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Three points not really addressed at all

1. The all Vietnam draft dodger administration that started this war, chose one we could not lose; i.e. getting bin Laden and crippling AQ and then leaving, into one we could not win; i.e. regime change and nation building, having as a partner every corrupt person of power in Afghanistan as our figureheads. The former brought our high tech, highly mobile, high firepower military into a position of strength, while the latter made all that irrelevant. As a Taliban official told a US official: "you had all the clocks , we had all the time."

2. The duopoly bait and switched us beautifully. At the end of his administration, a highly unpopular Bush made a deal with Iraq calling for our withdrawal from that country at the end of 2011, that war being hugely unpopular by 2008, as simultaneously, candidate Obama, a supposed avatar of change and supposedly anti Iraq war, blamed Bush for taking his eye off Afghanistan, which had become a backwater, the "good war" as he termed it, and pledged to refocus on Afghanistan, which he did. In this manner, Obama, a tool of the established order, was able to keep the Afghan gravy train going just as the Iraq one would wind down less than three years into his administration. The Democratic party has a pure genius for triangulating in such a way it pleases its increasingly right wing donor base even as it virtue signals and makes pretty speeches that tend to please liberal ears, but are really nothing more than keeping the same old the same old.

If the US men's 4X100 meter relay team passed the baton that efficiently, we'd win the gold medal every Olympics.

3. We lost, decisively, to a people we deem as racially and culturally inferior to us, and in an area we have increasingly seen as the the epitome of US identity, our military, which we continue to place in conflicts where its strengths are meaningless, thus also attacking another area we take such pride in: our high tech, digital vanquishing of the analog world, a place our opponents inhabit with sureness.

All the wailing and snowflaking going on among our elite in the media, Congress and the military regarding the withdrawal is really just a reflection of first their increasingly unreal existence, all walled in and impervious to any outside thoughts, and more importantly, their wish to divert the populace's attention that for 20 years, they have been remarkably incompetent, other than their lying, which is world class.

There can be no further excuse for voting for nearly any of the incumbents, unless, of course, your concern for our servicemen and women is as hollow as that of most of our elected representatives.

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founding

I am convinced that the impulse behind every decision the administration made regarding the Afghanistan exit was based on polling and his desire to give The Big 9/11 Speech.

I wish we had a contemplative and representative person in the White House who could give us that speech, who could reflect on what we have gone through as a nation for the last 20 years --- where we have achieved, how we have changed, what has gone wrong. That would be a worthy observance. But it would require pointing out our shared experiences and values, and uniting us as a nation is not the goal anymore, right?

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Most likely Biden thought the Afghan government could hold out long enough for a speech of some sort, but in that miscalculation, Biden simply followed the script of his predecessors, none of whom, and I include Bush in this, have any real understanding of the military and certainly not war. They all knew the government would fall, which is why Trump's agreement with the Taliban was not scheduled to take place until well after the 2020 election, as the Dems would have attempted to make hay of it, just as the Repubs and some Dem hawks are now.

Truth is the first casualty of war, and that died nearly 20 years ago; there is no reason to think Biden should be any different than his predecessors

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One wonders what kind of garbage information vaunted US "intelligence community" produces and feeds up to executive level - surely at least some on the ground saw that the collapse will be swift and uncontrollable, why didn't that percolate up? Actually, it is not surprising - with no accountability, everything just gets worse. Nobody got fired after the 9/11 intelligence omission, same for not predicting the massive Covid toll, and now no heads will roll for this humiliating debacle. US taxpayers really get poor value for $60+ billion annually spent of alphabet soup of 3-letter agencies.

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My sense of it is they know what their bosses want to hear and tell them that. Of course, war is the ultimate delusional exercise even with the best of intentions, which, in both Iraq and Afghanistan was not the case.

The Downing Street Memo, issued before the start of the Iraq war, said it all, "The facts were being fixed around the policy."

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"My sense of it is they know what their bosses want to hear and tell them that."

Some of that goes on, particularly at higher levels, but it's generally more like when you tell the bosses what they don't want to hear they ignore you.

The big all-source ABCs -- CIA and DIA -- were calling this one a loser over 10 years ago, around the time of The Surge; however, criticizing the inevitable uselessness of The Surge was not a Done Thing in the DC policy community, because it was set policy.

I do not dispute jbt1980's claim that there is massive fraud, waste, and abuse within the IC, but there are also many people in it who are honestly trying their best and are swimming upstream. In my opinion, this one is on the generals, the politicians, and especially the political generals.

There's a saying in the military: "There are only ever operational successes and intelligence failures." Translation: when shit goes south because you made a dumb command decision, blame the intel weenies. They're nerds with glasses, easy to kick around in the schoolyard.

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...'In my opinion, this one is on the generals, the politicians, and especially the political generals.'

I am 62 and it is becoming harder and harder to remember what I felt like as a citizen before 9/11...

But I can remember what I believed - wrongly - about Reagan many years before - living in the Federal Republic of Kent State Ohio - one being that he was a war monger - and like an earlier thread here insisted - that he was already in Dementia (an often alluded to suggestion when rhetorically opposing his political agenda)

The great political mistake of the Reagan revolutionaries was failing to talk the Gipper off of George Bush - because all of America's worst problems stem from this Acheson/Dulles aficionado - and his abject disassembly of all the good decent well-meaning Libertarians attempted to infuse into American Government and Capitalism ...

George Poppy Bush - father of Shrub - Survivor of Watergate - Purger of the CIA - the ultimate decider of the kind of establishmentarian globalism - the 'Karl Roving' of Free Trade - that gave us Texas as a feudal model - falling wages and standards of living and endless meddling in global policing -

And why did Conservatives buy this shit? Because he and his son Delivered Texas and thwarted what was considered a demographic certainty - the Roy Texeria prediction - that the 21st century was destined to be Progressive....

Instead - it has arguably become the most reliably conservative state in the Union - as today's (and the past twenty years on immigration AND LATINO ATTRACTION has proven) Abortion legislations has proven...

The truth is closer to happening IN SPITE OF BUSH REPUBLICANISM - rather than Rove or because of either men....

Which further informs why AMERICAN FIRST political insurgency is the only path forward for the Republican Party - and - for believes as my self - ...

The country as well... Because Populism - on both the right and left - is not TOXIC - but - integral to the evolution of the American Two Party system...

As is...RELIGOUS REVIVAL...

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founding

It doesn't help that the leader in the White House has accomplished nothing but get re-elected his whole life; his whole life experience is doing whatever a politician needs to do for his and his circle's own welfare. It is probably pretty easy for the intell bunch to manufacture the info for him to make his life and decisions "easier."

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Those ruling us are intellectually and socially inbred, with nary a dissenting voice hear from outside their tightly knit circle. The (D) (R) division is purely artificial; on all matters impacting their donor base, they remain identical.

Other than being reelected, and knowing where to find the money men, Biden, McConnell, Pelosi et al have no nothing to point to as what could be termed accomplishments.

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@Mr. Nola

Absolutely *stellar analysis ! KUDOS

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/thread

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Biden may have botched the planning of the withdrawal. Or he may not have. I think it's possible, if not probable, that the military slow-walked preparations in a bid to persuade Biden to back down or, failing that, create a chaotic situation in which their reliable flock improperly identified hacks on TV plead for a return of troops to tamp things down.

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Astute comment, thanks

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Puppet governments have been an abject failure every time we've utilized that ploy. Iran, Panama, Chile, every banana republics and now Afghan. Is the learning curve too steep for the IQ challenged political class or is there MONEY to be made repeating the same old mistakes? I'd vote for the latter.

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I hadn't thought about the weapons left behind in that way. That's a possibility and a good point.

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Well Soviets in the day were able to execute an orderly withdrawal, and their puppets fought on for 3 more years, and rather well too. Why didn't they study this at West Point? Maybe they studied Napoleon's retreat from Russia but forgot to tell them it is a bad example? The competency level of US military and its NATO hangers-on was cringeworthy.

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#PerceptionIsACommodity - We are aggressively manipulated to "think" and "feel" about everything with repeated deceitful narratives and images which specifically TARGET emotional response. US Corporate-State Media (MSNBC, FOX, CNN, ABC, PBS, NPR, WaPo, NYT, etc) manufactures "support" or "rage" for whatever the oligarchy chooses. OUR thoughts and feelings on any given topic are often, largely NOT our own

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Ya know, now that a real journalist, Craig Murray is in jail for political crimes, but really for being a real journalist reporting on another real journalist - Julian Assange - and being the only one to really do it - could you and Glenn maybe start to report on the Assange case a little bit, or is it just all about the easy money now?

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I would second this. The fact that mainstream media is almost completely silent on the court cases against Murray and Assange was one of the reasons that I stopped reading them. But, disappointingly, even the writers I enjoy following in the alternative media do not fill this gap.

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Exactly my point. And I didn't mean that as a personal attack on Matt or Glenn, but geez not even FAIR.org has said anything about it for a while. The Intercept is, understandably now that I know their real mission, completely silent too. I don't think Craig Murray's name has *ever* been mentioned there so it must be something to do with Pierre's not-control-but-really-control over that outlet. Meanwhile Assange and now Murray rot in jail during a pandemic. Ridiculous that not even the alternative media is covering it outside of a very few exceptions.

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Can you help me out on the real mission of the Intercept?

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Other than money laundering for Pierre Omidyar you mean? LOL

Seriously though they're kind of controlled opposition on foreign policy. I think their domestic reporting is pretty good, actually. Omidyar himself has some not-so-indirect connections to the persecution of Wikileaks and by extension Assange, which is why you'll almost (if not completely) never seen anything about his plight there anymore. Even Greenwald only mentioned the case sparingly in his last year or two.

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Seconded to all of this, but what's worse is it's all so cleanly swept under the rug and largely by mistake (or design, depending on who's doing the sweeping), to where I fear I'm getting used to it at times, since somehow I've come to expect cases like Murray and Assange's no longer being reported on or acknowledged by anyone.

With Murray being put away for his reporting on the British kangaroo courts (er, excuse me, I mean for the terrible crime of "jigsaw identification" that he's the first in the world to be charged with) for telling the truth on the political persecutions of Julian Assange and Alex Salmond -- along with his many other prior "crimes" of anti-Establishment reporting -- there are precious few left to write on any of the matters he did. Assange's friend, John Pilger, has written some articles on Consortium News recently I advise everyone look for. "British justice" is being stamped out, along with western rule of law altogether, as the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Prof. Nils Melzer tried to warn us, even as his writings were rejected to be published anywhere but on the prestigious Medium.com. He wrote:

"Even so, you may say, why spend so much breath on Assange, when countless others are tortured worldwide? Because this is not only about protecting Assange, but about preventing a precedent likely to seal the fate of Western democracy. For once telling the truth has become a crime, while the powerful enjoy impunity, it will be too late to correct the course. We will have surrendered our voice to censorship and our fate to unrestrained tyranny."

The deep corruption of the SNP mob that was exposed is proof of the UK Establishment's recent consolidation of power, and they are of course openly and proudly a vassal state of the American empire now, which has itself been consolidating power, and whose history and status as empire ought to have been revealed to us all when Assange held up the book "History of the National Security State" with Gore Vidal to tell us all to read it. I stayed up on Jan 6. to hear the Assange trial results, from the only place I knew of to be reporting on them anywhere, which was Consortium News - only to wake up to everyone going hysterical over what sounded like the most recent three-letter-agency plot that can be neither confirmed nor denied as one, but yet happened in that blurry period between the transitions of presidential administrations, when the CIA historically loves best to operate.

No attention given to the Assange case's worldwide implications for journalism, except from the in-depth analysis of independents like Joe Lauria. No attention given to the Murray case or what it means for the western world, except from scant few independents like Jonathan Cook, who noted how the British Establishment is now working on banning journalism altogether (or "onward disclosure" as they call it in newspeak). Official leaked documents first showed us evidence of the still ongoing and now escalating war on journalism, against speech and press, a decade ago. WikiLeaks and Assange warned us. If we didn't see it coming, we should have by when Mike Pompeo publically declared the war, by when people like Prof. Nils Melzer warned us of it, or by when Dr. Lissa Johnson wrote of how it's being used to alter reality and the way we see the world.

Apologies for the excessively long comment, but better to have at least written a tl;dr post than have done nothing at all, I suppose, as I certainly don't have the fortitude left to do more after 10+ years of following the Assange case since I was a teenager, innocently wondering when the man who told us the truth about Iraq and Afghanistan would get to leave the embassy and be free again, like all the collateral murderers he exposed who have never lost their freedom. If all of this had been better covered, the wider public would not only be informed, but outraged and with torches and pitchforks in hand.

"One listens for loud condemnation; one listens and the silence is deafening."

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Exactly. Torture including harsh imprisonment is bad and unacceptable in almost all cases, but the Assange (and Murray) case stand for something much larger - Wikileaks and people like Assange are the last remaining bulwarks against the complete capture of the so-called democratic process insofar as it serves actual people whose own constitutions and laws dictate transparency from the governments that allegedly represent us.

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Removed (Banned)Sep 7, 2021
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Thanks for cementing the opinion that many of us have about you. You're literally a statist/fascist.

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Removed (Banned)Sep 7, 2021
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You really are a moron. Assange is one of few messengers of his kind. You, predictably, take the corporate State Department media at its word and judge the messenger rather than the message just like the good little authority worshiping gnat that you are.

As for whom I speak, you can count every "like" your lame, pussified comments have ever recieved on all of Suckstack

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Krystal asks 5 minute questions. She, like most of these reporters, is an interviewer who wants to show how smart she is….unlistenable.

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I find her largely insufferable.

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She is so gleeful though.

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Thank you, again. Maybe we should apply the government industrial complex connection disclosure idea to the domestic policy side of government too.

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Question: If Trump's call to the Ukranian president was an impeachable offense, doesn't that mean that Biden's July 23 call to the Afghan president is also impeachable? In the latter call Biden asked the president to misrepresent the status of the Taliban's offensive to take over the country, and indicated if the president would help Biden out with the PR, the US would likely be able to help with close air support at least until the end of August, and possibly after. Neither the public statement sought by Biden, nor the close air support, happened. If you don't find the situations to be similar, why not?

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@Jeff

International quid pro quo Weapons Deals based upon the *personal need of ONE MAN to increase his chances in an election, and field negotiations during the course of a HOT WAR, are two VERY different things. I am embarrassed for you that you needed to *have that pointed out.

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One can equally say that Biden offered to provide close air support in exchange for the Afghan president helping him with PR at home, which was intended to boost his approval rating. That is certainly for Biden's personal political benefit. You see two can play at the game of interpreting events in the worst possible light. By the way, I don't believe either situation presents an impeachable offense based upon publicly available evidence. But I do believe that if one lives by the sword, one may die by the sword.

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@Jeff

We can also "pretend" all day long. IF Biden received *any personal gain from an act as CINC, an action that *also improved the U.S. position of an *ACTIVE hot war, people may not actively applaud, perhaps, but that's what we WANT out of a military Commander-In-Chief. Strategy *and Victory in war planning.

The action benefits EVERYONE in the plot, not just the leader. And the most *important benefit of this example, is that it is 100% LEGAL !

For Trump to HOLD UP Weapons paid for by the U.S. taxpayer until he could FORCE Ukraine to perpetrate a *Fantasy, a *Lie, and a *Scam smearing the Biden(s), for his own PERSONAL gain *IS ILLEGAL, by both U.S. and International Law ! Thus, the reason that our impotent, but energetic Con Artist was Impeached for it.

To understand the actual way that *LAW works, go ahead and IMPEACH Biden. DO IT ! Even *with Trump's Supreme Court loaded with Religious Nut Jobs

(specifically, but not only, A.C. Barrett and B.M. Kavanaugh) you will *discover the difference under discussion.

The reason many people do not *see a difference, is that many human beings do not *WANT to see a difference.

And, up against *that self-imposed brick wall, I will offer no further energy.

Ciao !

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Hmmm. So there was nothing wrong with Biden's phone call. And if a GOP president makes a similar call in the future, you're perfectly okay with it. Good to know.

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@Jeff

p.s. to my previous. Wanting superior strategy and victory in war planning from a President is *clearly not the same thing as *getting even a scintilla of those desirable characteristics !

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Sorry for the digression, but I'm still trying to figure out how Mike Flynn's call to Russian Ambassador Kislyak was somehow treasonous. Aren't national security officials and diplomats supposed to, y'know, talk to each other so ideally we don't get into wars?

I guess JFK and Khrushchev were both traitors since they got on the phone with each other and called off the Cuban Missile Crisis. Actually, considering their subsequent careers... it seems somebody with the ability to "do things" became unhappy with them in both cases.

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Miranda Divine opines on this issue in the NY Post today. https://nypost.com/2021/09/01/joe-bidens-call-to-afghan-president-is-impeachable-devine/

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I have a close family member who flies the V22 Osprey. They suggested I read the book, “The Dream Machine” which documents the Osprey’s history. This morning I picked it up from a local book store and just finished the prologue; near the end I read this:

“ …. the first squadron of V-22 Ospreys ever to fly actual military operations into Iraq, where a US led invasion four years earlier had ignited ethnic and religious blood feuds and an insurgency that had taken thousands of lives. By then (2007), the bitter debate over how the war had begun was largely over. It was hard to remember why the war’s sponsors had thought it would be so easy, and so cheap in dollars and lives, to change the world.” The book was published in 2010.

I think the same applies to Afghanistan; I find that statement to be quite telling. Also, I fail to know why it doesn’t qualify as a war crime!

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The presidents have way to much police power.

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The police have way too much police power.

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"The book was published in 2010."

Just about anybody who was deployed in AFG c. '10-'12 could have told you it was already game over. The stink of failure was strong post-Surge. Yet somebody managed to keep it limping along for another decade.

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That’s what makes it all so stupid. Now we hear the Taliban is beating women who are trying to protest, well duhhhh.

The people we allowed over there to “liberate” certain portions of the Afghanistan population were extremely irresponsible. Only some piously naive twitter users would think that was an intelligent thing to do. And while they are not intelligent enough to realize it, they already have blood on their hands, and it’s just getting started.

I’ll keep saying it, if Rudolf Hess was charged in Nuremberg for “Crimes Against Peace”, shouldn’t GW be given similar treatment?

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Was always a fan of Hess (and von Stauffenberg). Dude literally escaped from Nazi Germany and flew solo to the UK to turn himself over. I do not endorse his earlier efforts on behalf of the Nazi regime, but I think it's fairly clear he realized he had fucked up and was seeking atonement. He wasn't treated well by the British.

Military men who love their country but realize their government is corrupt and act against it are in a lonely place unless they can get outside backing.

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Read this. I never gave Hess a thought until I read this a few weeks ago. I believe this happened the way it’s described; it’s stunning to consider!

https://www.realclearhistory.com/articles/2021/08/01/why_rudolph_hess_was_the_last_casualty_of_ww_ii_788057.html

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The Hess story is one of those "truth is stranger than fiction" things. It's almost impossible to believe, but it happened.

I will note that the English are excellent at killing people and blaming it on somebody else.

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Matt, why does "Joe Biden deserve credit for sticking to his timeline"? I know Americans like complex events to be made neat and tidy, as with a completely arbitrary (and unconditional) timeline. But this timeline is the primary catalyst for the chaos and terror that has and will continue to unfold for years to come, both within Afghanistan and, I fear, abroad. Rather than credit, he deserves blame, and his wooden, "facts be damned" diplomacy will further decorate the ever-expanding U.S. history hall of shameful presidential decisions.

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Matt, saying this “… Joe Biden deserves credit for sticking to his timeline.“ is like saying the Captain of the Titanic deserves credit to sticking to his course.”

I was against going in, I’m glad were are out, but to exit in the style of “The Three Stooges” might have warranted a bit of timeline adjustment.

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Or at least a reconsideration of abandoning Bagram, our strategic air base immediately before undertaking multiple massive strategic events. Who made that decision and why?

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Hind site is 20-20. No big Joe fan but this mess is just that, a mess. Get out and stay out of replacement "wars" and presidential police actions

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Not true- many saw the fiasco unfolding a long time ago- some all the way back to 9/11. Not all are sheep and not all are mesmerized by the MSM.

If you didn't see it, then that's on you.

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It would have been the same debacle no matter when we did it - better sooner than later ...

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I have no idea why you think that, but since we will never know there’s no real purpose in speculating.

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There are a couple credible reports from actual journalists in Afghanistan that indicates deals were being cut out in the provinces years ago, and America wasn’t in on any of it. The place fell apart in days because the deals had already been done.

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Because of all the reasons mentioned in other comments - the ones running the "withdrawal" this time and for the foreseeable future, until we do clean D/Rs "out of the house", never really wanted to withdraw ...

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We don't need a third party. We need real leadership, in any party.

"However much he may have botched the planning, Joe Biden deserves credit for sticking to his timeline. It is good news that the United States can eventually recognize that a war has stopped serving any purpose, and actually decide to leave a country ten years after the last theoretical reason for staying has expired."

To believe Biden did this "for the good of the country" is ignorant and/or delusional. This was never a war. This was a money laundering operation that is no longer needed. Assange nailed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IGU_7alJ80 .

They are simply repositioning the pieces. All that gear left behind? Don't worry. They'll make more. They have the technology. They can rebuild it. It's called a never-audited war machine and a printing press that runs 24/7 with zero accountability.

There were reasons for staying. We had containment, owned Bagram, could have leveraged a deal with Turkey (and maybe kept those additional A-400s out of their hands), we had soft power options enabled by our force in country and our control of the air space. Does anyone doubt we'll be going back into Afghanistan? There's a trillion dollars + of primetime minerals there. Think we're giving it to the Chinese? Maybe we are. China Biden is awfully compromised and his regime does hate Americans.

why are we lauding praise on Ball and Enjeti for stating the obvious? We all know its a rigged game. Ball and Enjeti took big money until it no longer served their interest and they realized they could make a boatload going on independent. They didn't do any time in the trenches. They're leeches who know how to stay in their lane while looking radical.

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@WEVA

From your comment above : "Joe Biden deserves credit for sticking to his timeline. It is good news....." This kind of spin is known in both in Rhetoric Class, and in political circles as: "Putting lipstick on a pig".

Duels, or "gunfights" in the arid "Wild West" States of the 1800s, were often scheduled for "High Noon". That was not some kind of pusillanimous, arbitrary, pinky-swear time agreement, it had a PURPOSE ! That was the time of day *least likely to disadvantage *either party to the duel by having the Sun in their eyes !

When Biden *arbitrarily chose 8-31 as his "use by" date for U.S. force, he had no *valid reason for drawing a line in the sand on that particular date. It was all about ego and false political optics.

Then, the Taliban *trapped Biden (as professional Terrorists are *wont to do) in his date ! Biden, having foolishly removed the bulk of the military *first, and THEN going back to get civilians and remaining military, forced himself into walking STRAIGHT into the simplest Terrorist gambit in the book - a simple "hold reversal move" right out of any judo manual.

What happened then, was that Aug 31 became the *Taliban's Deadline, and their suicide attack on the Airport *showed that fact. The *TALIBAN then demanded Biden have it all out of their country by Aug 31, and threatened to kill even *more people if Biden failed !

Biden "buckled". He is not a wartime president, after all.

Neither was Trump, but Trump just ignored the problem until he could outlast it.

So, the Taliban successfully ran "The Great Satan" out of Kabul , in front of every *other Terrorist in the world, as if Biden, and the Country he represents, were the Taliban's own Little Bitch, and on a schedule forced *by the Taliban, not by the "World's Greatest Superpower." So, Stone Age goat herders shoved the U.S. Military "out of Dodge", and the "spin doctors" try to present that as "a good thing"? It will probably work. They will just keep caking lipstick on the pig until Americans who *want to believe that pap *anyway, turn it into part of the "American Myth", and go on to lose the *next war due to inability to have learned diddly from *this war.

Many Americans back home were buying into *inane horseshit like "We have to BURN the village, in order to SAVE the village." Coming out of the Generals and OTHER spin doctors during the war in Vietnam. So, yeah .......

But the truth is, (before it is all buried in piles of horse pucky and professional pettifoggery) the Taliban forced Biden out on *their schedule simply by turning Biden's unnecessarily written-in-stone departure date back *on him. Checkmate.

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The truth was that whenever we decided to leave, we'd look weak.

The truth is that whenever the Taliban actually took over, that was when the mass of the population would start running and clogging up airports. Not before. Asking them to evacuate a month or two ago was not going to work. I made the comparison to the stragglers on the Berezina in 1812 on another article. Most of them died because they weren't under discipline; same here more or less.

The only inexcusable part of this was getting the Americans out. I cannot understand the poor planning here. Normally, State is telling people to GTFO of dangerous places for months before anything bad happens; not here. As stated, I think someone hoped the decision would be reversed at the last moment.

All I do know is that *at least* 14 Americans would still be alive if we had pulled out in May (the originally negotiated date) rather than now.

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@HBI

I don't mind this country looking weak - that's the price you pay for the games you play. And, I most certainly did *not mean to present the exit date as THE prism thru which the world will remember the Afghanistan War (altho it could be, like "The Running Girl" picture of children being burned by Napalm in Vietnam, The Helo being dumped off of the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, etc.)

The point I was making is *not that the date mattered, I agree with your assessment of that above. What I *DID observe, was that, *after locking down on the date, the Taliban neatly forced Biden to paint himself into a corner. This was simply an interesting vignette. Not an overall assessment and analysis. For that moment, the Taliban were playing chess, Biden was playing Solitaire.

I am, however, becoming more solidly persuaded by the *day, of your contention regarding the likelihood that the bulk of Americans & Friends in that Afghan "Rick's Place" on steroids could NOT Believe that Biden WAS willing to fuck up a Twenty-Year Insider's Bacchanal that was working *very well for the Elite ! I never realized that, whereas Vietnam was perhaps more like 80% war, 20% Active Grafting, Afghanistan, by your own account and that of others expected to be in the know, must have been more on the order of 15% war, and 85% full-time Grafting. ;-D

So, apparently I was erring in looking at it AS a war, rather than a U.S. Sponsored, Fully Untethered, Unregulated Vegas in a Different Desert, with the excuse of war maintained only as a justification for "juicing" the Casino ! ;-D

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In Vietnam, far as I have been told, there was an OPFOR, they were just good at appearing and disappearing at times of their choosing.

In Iraq, I didn't see much OPFOR, and my friends who were in Afghanistan made clear it wasn't very much in evidence, at least fighting. Mortar and rocket rounds? Sure. IEDs remote detonated with electrical scraps? Lots in both Iraq and Afghanistan. But opposing fighters willing to openly duke it out on the ground? Not many. That was just evidence of cunning or smarts though, trying to fight us in that way is playing to our strengths.

Most of the time - above 85% for most - appears to have been in quiet zones punctuated with the attacks as noted above. One dude I know who got badly burned in Iraq by an exploding vehicle in a firefight in 2006 is a counterpoint, as is most of the action in the 2003 invasion.

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@HBI

In Vietnam, the Greenies (Green Berets) were *legendary for their ability to appear *from, and to "dissolve" back *into, the jungle fog. The OPFOR, almost to a person, were also sensational. (And, the OPFOR was made up of both males and females, tho the percentage of females was very small. )

However, once we (finally) discovered their nationwide (South Vietnam) systems of tunnels, complete with food stores, hospitals, "chow halls", "barracks", etc., we may not know the *point at which they disappeared, but we did know where they had gone in *general. The Army trained the smallest guys in uniform to become designated "Tunnel Rats". MAX PROPS to those guys ! Damn ! They dropped down into those Tunnels with a .45 and *followed our escapees as far as it took.

I am aware that the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan scored some HORRIBLY effective kill/maim percentages with the seemingly simple I.E.D. program ! As a former bombardier, I cannot even *imagine their success rates ! I am, however, too tired of war to much care about researching that aspect at my present stage of proximity to the "End Gate" in this particular lifetime. ;-D

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"I am, however, too tired of war to much care about researching that aspect at my present stage of proximity to the "End Gate" in this particular lifetime."

When you're a young man it's all fun and games.

When you become an old man it gets... old.

What's Cormac McCarthy's line from BLOOD MERIDIAN? "Young men love war and old men love it in them." I take his point but I'm not sure I love it in them. Mainly, I feel exhausted.

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https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/08/how-turf-wars-mucked-up-americas-exit-from-afghanistan

Upshot: Apparently, TDS caused some amount of what happened.

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@HBI

What people are pleased to call TDS is a tongue-in-cheek bit of acid that did not exist twenty years ago when the Afghanistan Debacle Debuted. ;-D Many people clearly knew *THAT was going to be another predictable fiasco at the "git go" ! Or, to be fair, once the stated purpose of runnin' down OBL did NOT produce Americans coming home in droves !

Thanks for taking time to produce the URL.

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Vanity Fair accusing Blinken and his team of embodying the Dunning-Kruger effect is pretty awful.

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@HBI

There is, understandably, *great pressure upon spin doctors to *continue to place lipstick on the Afghanistan Pig, using trowels and spatulas the size of the blade on a large bulldozer. I, personally, do not put much store in sources like Vanity Fair to be giving me *accurate war analysis. (and, of course, you will know that what I say here means even the *choice Vanity Fair would make *of "spokespeople" to jaw-on regarding Afghanistan for as long as it takes to remove the *sting of withdrawal for Americans, to lull them into a sense of self-satisfied complacency, so that TPTB can begin moving on our NEXT "war adventure" without losing too much time.)

First, however, there is the task of convincing Americans, on the basis of *very scant evidence, that the U.S. just *kicked A$$, and took names in Afghanistan. ;-D

There truly IS a *unique and marvelous chance right now that *astounding, and positive change can take place aboard the Planet, but that will require the free choice, and the cooperation of a sufficient number of people who *want said significant change from the "same ol' same ol' " of endless yesteryears.

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I don't believe everything I read. However, even the most carefully crafted propaganda has threads of truth woven into it. Teasing those out is the trick.

Goebbels was pretty specific on this point.

The changes in the State Dept organization are documented and hard to fake, at the very least. The rest is less reliable.

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Indeed, we need leadership in any party - problem is you won't find it, that is leadership that represents "we the people" in either "major" party ...

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What makes you think we are leaving?

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"It is good news that the United States can eventually recognize that a war has stopped serving any purpose," You can bet that the military industrial complex and banking cartel are fast ready/planning to go elsewhere in the world to spend our tax dollars fighting and "defending" whatever.

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I think elsewhere may involve eliminating “Posse Comitatus Act”.

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Yikes. Had to look it up. "The Posse" Comitatus Act is a United States federal law signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. AMEN. Leave it alone.

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