In front of the Lincoln Memorial Sunday, pro-Ukrainian protesters played a lullaby video over images of infants, singing: "If you don't close the sky, I will die."
In other news, sources in the Biden administration have confirmed that Will Smith's assault on Chris Rock at last night's Oscar ceremony was personally authorized by Vladimir Putin. "Smith clearly used a Kremlin-linked slap technique," said CIA head William Burns. "We've seen this kind of weaponized Muscovite man-slap used over and over against innocent civilians in Mariupol and elsewhere in Ukraine." President Biden said, "He can't remain in power now. Smith cannot remain in power in Hollywood."
Yeah, I know. I feel bad for everybody involved in that incident, including Will Smith, who had a childhood full of physical abuse. Too bad he hasn't worked through that.
So he became his father? How humiliating. He's got enough money to pay for therapy for every day of his life, all day long, if the wanted it. No excuses. He's an ass. Did you see him partying afterward? He made an enormous error in judgement. And me thinks he was worried about the smack Chris Rock would bring on Jada and Will's open marriage. I'm sure it will play into Rock's next tour!
Psychological 'therapy' is mostly bullshit, and almost always ineffective. Some things like phobias are treatable. Lifelong habits and thinking? Not so much.
Most of us become our fathers, for better or worse. Of course he made an enormous error in judgment. He's already paid the price for it. He went from well-liked film actor to pariah on what should've been the best night of his professional life: a Shakespearean transformation.
Chris Rock will always be the guy who got slapped in front of a billion people. It lives forever on the internet and it will likely translate to incessant jokes/ridicule on Smith's behalf. It was beyond dumb for him to do what he did and I'm sure he realizes that now. And if we do become our fathers, whew...that's great news for me! But if you had an abusive father, you do everything to stop the cycle. That lasting impression might be what gets him the therapy he needs.
Poor rich people. Whose every moves are tolerated, even rewarded.
What cracks me up about the whole deal is how Hollywood, which is ALWAYS judging the rest of America, can't judge this. Yes, a man has to defend the honor of His Woman! Tammy Wynette/George Jones would be proud. Hilarious.
Lost my hair in chemo. So what. Jada is a beautiful strong woman. A HAIR JOKE unleashed the Kraken? That in itself is hilarious. The elites, in this case Hollywood, are so pathetic. They have no clue, nor are they interested.
Drop the mic Dude, you totally killed it. If the CIA and Schiff confirmed it, it's gotta be true. If you don't believe them, you're obviously a Putin loyalist...
Straight outta Putin's Kremlin playbook - see how Smith didn't use the standard de-platforming designed to deal with the types who make jokes about those with disabilities, he resorted to his wife's being demeaned with violence, settling an issue immediately rather than litigating via the media which would have sold fishwraps for months as every twist & turn in the dispute was enacted, analysed then pronounced upon.
It’s highly arguable if a “no-fly-zone” is the best idea, but meanwhile Ukrainian children DO get blown to pieces by Russia. Fortunately we’ve got great jokers here to keep us relaxed. After all, America should stop looking abroad and instead deal with its own serious problems, such as Will Smith slapping Academy Awards presenters. Anyway, as others have explained on this site, those children die only because their parents insist on fighting, instead of accepting Putin’s warm embrace.
Have fun, folks. When your turn will come, we’ll be watching and eating popcorn.
Try to close the sky and we all could die, including those precious babies.
There appear to be a lot of morons that think a direct conflict between two nuclear armed powers won't or can't end up as a holocaust for all of humanity.
Obama's appeasement was a Nazi-backed coup in 2014 and a simmering War on Terror where 14,000 people were killed in Donbas.
Not exactly appeasing anyone there except the energy and weapons sectors -certainly not a foreign government. That guy's administration deleted what... five sovereign governments in eight years?
LOL Biden would break a hip on the ball as he slips trying to find it.
He'll go on camera and lie straight faced though.
His every appearance only makes it worse for sure.
People like you are why wars never end. People like you are why we are going to have that final battle between shit and shittier. Good luck with that you freak.
Exactly. This is not our fight. The Ukranians have done Putin's bidding in the past. Now they are arging with him, and they want the powerful US to get involved. We can feel sympathy for them without acting dangerously. We can even try to hasten his demise, but starting a war with him is not the answer.
… “The possibility of an effective international agreement to prohibit nuclear weapons must be recognized as very remote. But under the circumstances of nuclear stalemate through mutual deterrence, the United States might forego use of nuclear retaliation if the (Russian) provocation were clearly to involve less than a directly mortal threat. ...
<blockquote>The (Russians) recognize the value of exploiting this situation. The first objective presumably is the isolation of (those countries) from ”
(any present or future) strategic alliance (with) the United States.
...The (Russian) objective is expansion of power and influence, but only by ways in which (Russia) itself is not risked as the stake in an 'adventure.' ...(I)f nuclear weapons create a recognized stalemate, this stalemate would serve as a shield behind which …
(Russian) conventional military power could,, through threat and possibly in actual limited wars, be used to expand (Russian) control at much reduced risk (to itself). …
(T)here are cogent reasons for believing that (Russia) believes its greatest advantage would be served by avoiding thermonuclear war and using her growing nuclear striking power to stalemate American deterrent power, and then to take advantage of this neutralization for purposes of gradual and probable indirect aggrandizement. …
(T)he possibility of a major non-nuclear war in Europe remains strong enough—and may increase in likelihood—so that the question of preparation for waging such a war should concern all great powers. The (Russians) realize this and plan accordingly. …
(T)here is one (potential) case of a major, though not world, war under which the (Russians) may attempt to place the West in a position where we will not use nuclear weapons: a major (Russian) challenge which they deem insufficient to provoke us to all-out massive retaliation under prevailing circumstances of mutual strategic deterrence. Thus, at some time, the (Russians) might launch a non-nuclear attack on (Germany), or on Western Europe in general, if they had been led to judge mutual deterrence to be so strong a restraint on American action that we would withhold our nuclear fire in response to such a major (italic emph.) _conventional_ attack in which neither major protagonist was directly threatened. This might at the least present us—and the people of the area involved—with a most difficult choice, and conceivably lead us, in line with (Russian) expectations, to forego our relative advantage in the use of nuclear weapons and to fight a major non-nuclear war. …
(The Russians) might well anticipate enormous gains in Europe and other areas on the Eurasian periphery. And, (italic emph.) _so long as the mutual deterrence was maintained,_ these gains could be made at assumable—indeed minimum—risks.”
Since 1945, the U.S. has waged hot proxy-wars in Korea--on the "door-step" of both China and the Soviet Union; neither Mao nor Stalin, both having atomic weapons, used them; in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Lebanon, and in Grenada, Bosnia, Croatia, Haiti, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan (where Bin Laden had taken refuge!), Libya, Uganda--in _all_ those cases, U.S. armed forces fought with other national forces. In Iraq and in Somalia, the United States fought against what were both literally and in every other sense what were nothing . but criminal gangs. Again, in none of these cases was there any use of nuclear weapons in response or retaliation.
The assumption that Russian or Chinese or Korean or Pakistani military acts cannot be met with organized armed force without a dangerously probable counter-attack by these nations' nuclear armaments has been shown to be false--not in "theory"-- in real-world practice.
Figure it out: in much of the world, places are ruled by organized criminal gangs--and, today, the United States themselves have a White House administration which is little or no better than a gang of lawless (whenever it suits them) thugs in business suits.
From time to time this is going to provoke, by necessity, an armed combat response. This has always been the case. This is always going to be the case.
If they cared about Ukrainian moms and babies they would act to end the war as quickly as possible, instead of turning Ukraine into another (though far more profitable for the Right People) Syria.
While I agree that the war is partially just a racket for the usual military-industrial parasites, let's be honest--at this point 'end the war as quickly as possible' is just another way of saying "have Ukraine surrender to all of Putin and Russia's demands."
And if that's the go-to strategy, is there any reason to believe Putin won't eventually take the rest of Ukraine, if this incursion allows him to pry away the Donbas and the Eastern part of the country?
You could argue a no-fly zone and a prolonged insurgency isn't in the interest of average Ukrainians, but neither is being at the mercy of a revanchist Russia's oligarchs.
Only one thing is certain: William Kristol and the neocons have zero moral authority to weigh in on any of this. They propagated the very ideology that Putin is now turning back around on the West. They should have been shamed into hiding a long time ago.
And apparently Zelensky has made counterproposals. Ones involving entirely reasonable things like, say, security guarantees that Russia will not invade again. Russia hasn't entertained those, presumably at the behest of the oligarchs--Putin's masters.
But that's what I was saying. The quickest route to peace (outside of Putin withdrawing his troops) might be for Ukraine to cave to all of Putin's demands, but that's really not in the long term interest of Ukraine any more than a protracted war, since doing so would incentivize Putin to take whatever parts of Ukraine he doesn't get from the deal. Basically Ukraine is in an impossible situation. Russia, on the other hand, is not. Russia could end this all right now by withdrawing and leaving Ukraine alone.
However, while much of this is on Putin, much of it is also the neocon's fault, for normalizing this kind of behavior. I disagree with Matt on this point. Norms do count for something. Once a powerful nation establishes a precedent, less powerful nations will follow it. I honestly think this invasion wouldn't be happening if we had stayed out of Iraq, since this is just the Eurasian version of that war.
I was gonna say that. This bullshit idea the State Department is pushing, namely that Russia is just like the United States, with Billionaires calling the shots, is just rank propaganda. Russia’s “oligarchs” owe everything to Putin, and want to stay as far away from even a hint that they are fucking with Hizzoner as they can
Russia's demands are straightforward: recognition of her annexation of Crimea; annexation or self-government for the Donbas and other Russian-speaking enclaves; international neutrality. These are entirely digestible by Ukraine, especially in the face of almost certain Russian victory in any case. So the question is, how much death and destruction to you invite onto your own country for the sake of ultimately futile posturing to the West?
What happens after that is anyone's guess, but despite the hysterical pearl-clutching of the media elites, Putin is not Hitler.
In contrast to Russia's crystal-clear war aims, what are the potential war aims of the West? Aside from (profitably) turning Ukraine into a wasteland and Biden's hamfisted exhortation of regime change in Russia?
Who now (if I may reference Michael Tracey) are the adults in the room?
"So the question is, how much death and destruction to you invite onto your own country for the sake of ultimately futile posturing to the West?"
This was precisely what the neocons said to the Iraqis. Replace 'the West' with 'the Islamic world' and you could have stolen this from the mouth of William Kristol, George W...the whole rotten lot.
Like I said, Putin's just doing to Ukraine what the US neocons did to Iraq. To cast the besieged country as the irresponsible one also takes a page from their playbook. ('those irresponsible Ukrainians, defending their home as soldiers from a neighboring country come rushing in!')
No, you are mistaken. What the neocons said to the Iraqis is, "We are going to invade your country and impose a new regime on you whether you like it or not, regardless of the consequences, because we can."
I have no idea how you equate my comment with the criminally stupid blathering from that quarter (who, as Matt points out, are at it again, in an apparent attempt to bring the blessings of their Iraq and Syria policies to Eastern Europe).
No, that is what the neocons *did*. (And what Putin is doing) What they *said* was some version of "this is for your own good, dear Iraqis; why are you continuing to perpetuate bloodshed by resisting us?"
Which is no different than asking Ukrainians, when they are being besieged by their neighbor, "how much death and destruction do you invite onto your own country for the sake of ultimately futile posturing to the West?"
It's what the wife beater does when he says to his spouse, as he is beating her, "I wouldn't have to beat you as hard if you would just stop fighting back!"
"The official said one consequence the US is concerned about is keeping the European allies unified on economic pressure and military support as Washington expects some of them to press Ukraine to accept a peace deal to end the fighting."
There you have it. Right there in black and white, and from an impeccably MSM source.
Wars make money for the elites. They have exhausted all the resources so now they tear it down so they can charge for building it back up again. The people are scammed while the elites dine and laugh at us.
You just summed it up. With every expansion of NATO profits soar in the Arms industry as fighter planes and, (de) offensive missile sales soar. Power to the power while we puppets are fed specious media tripe.
If you would be capable of the slightest human feelings you would not heap garbage on people fighting for their freedom and dignity - in 2004, in 2014 and right now. Just like all those obsessed with conspiracy theories, you seem thoroughly unable to fathom the idea that people can fight and die for something else than CIA dollars. Exactly like Putin.
I have no desire to heap garbage on anyone; but it would seem like a good idea if we were not all turned to ashes, which we get gratis, thanks to vanity, out-sourced conflict, and support for escalation.
If you want to make sure that your precious little life is 100% safe, you have to kiss the boots of Putin or any other dictator with nukes, which doesn’t seem to bother you much. Your problem is that in this world there still are some people with a backbone, willing to take risks in order to live free, cramping your “safe” lifestyle.
my precious little life, those of Ukrainians, Russians, & yes, your precious little life too. really my lifestyle doesn't matter a jot. the risks of imperial expansion, however well intentioned, do.
That’s really funny! Any person in Europe, in the way of Russia’s evil for centuries, would read your words on “risks of imperial expansion” as - obviously! - a reference to the deadly, historical expansion of the Russian empire. And yet, for clueless, narcissistic Americans, that’s a reference to the “American empire”, that figment of Americano- centric feverish imagination! You should get out more in the real world!
As a European: the idea that the whole of Europe would, reflexively, think of imperial expansion as being Russian, as opposed to British, French, American or German - would seem absurd.
Indeed, the idea that the whole of Europe follows your opinion would seem more like narcissism, than listening to the few independent voices that call for peace, and de-escalation.
While there is still a Europe for you to see: visit Ireland, go to the Falls Road, ask (carefully) who the imperial enemy is. Ask them how clueless & narcissistic the Americans were, that supported their struggle for years. Then stand well back.
Or maybe I’m not an American and for me this is not a parlor game of useless words the way it is for you. Maybe I have personal experiences of the popular uprisings such as those in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014 and I feel deeply offended when bad faith ignorants who get their opinions from loonie websites and Russian propaganda label them as “US-backed Nazi coups”. Go play your word games in the safety of the US but just in case you’re not totally narrow minded, imagine that some people in this world have to fight something more than wokeness.
bill kristol has to be one of the most loathsome americans of the past generation or so, maybe this side of the cheneys.
we are suffering through all this warmongering partly because none of the architects of the iraq disaster had to suffer any consequences or face any personal responsibility.
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
I read "The Gulag Archapeligo"; found it so depressing I never read anything else by him. I see the situation differently. I believe that a small percentage of people are sociopaths and they are the ones who rise to positions of power in All Fields. He also stated when he living in the USA for a while, not to call him a hero, that the heroes were All Dead, he did what he had to do to survive and a lot of it, he wasn't proud of. We All know how society works; nice guy's finish last. It explains why there are so few Julian Assange type of people. Career people are rewarded for being "collegial" to use a nice word for obsequious. I read once about a Baboon tribe that like Homo sapiens has a similar social structure. The alpha males would rape the females and beat up on the regular male's and it was ongoing Chao's and misery for the majority of the baboons. One day, the alpha males got to a garbage pile and are their fill of the choicest garage. As it turned out, that was poison and they All died. Peace reigned in the tribe for a long while after that. You can go as far back in history as you want and no doubt pre history was the same and their was always an exploitive ruling class. They knew how to manipulate the narrative and thereby the minds of the masses. The difference now is the degree of the mind control based on science and the destructive technology that can literally end the world. If we had rational intelligence, we'd get rid of the technology before it gets rid of US!
Exactly! The biggest Gulag on earth but note, almost no banksters who stole trillions. Also note; Russian Oligarchy stole and hid in the offshore financial system..~>$200 billions. US Oligarchy stole and hid in the offshore system which includes the US part, for eg. Delaware,..~$1.5 trillions. Add other Oligarchy parasites around the world and it's breathtaking but they're untouchable.
And...the Russian Oligarchs and Mafia are based in Odessa, Ukraine. This is a problem that Putin, US and Ukraine should all combat together instead of having all of their strings pulled...
I believe it was very clever of Creator to designate our species to become co-creators proving that the process of creation returns to its original source taking many side trips, dallying with OCONUS lures even after that first lure named Eve proved a dalliance could have untoward consequences💖 I am singing and dancing, 🎉
Yes, Matt Taibbi, the destruction of Mariupol was just one of those things that happen. Bill Kristol is an asshole, its not my problem and aw fuck, I spilled my beer. There was a time, when good people, common people, read about Spain, read about Guernica, and were moved at act. Orwell, who you wrote of a while back, was one of them. Ultimately, only two countries, Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, aided the combatants in Spain. Western democracies sat. they wrung their hands as they lamented the brutalities. Their appeals for peace, shouted from a sober distance as propaganda images of "parents embracing their children.... " played n newsreels. The realists won in Spain and for half a Century the democracies of the West lamented their failure to act more resolutely. They learned that fighting fascism is noble and necessary. And the Spainish, the Basques and the Catalans, they had to settle for almost 40 years of Francoist repression. Neutrality, ultimately didn't keep Europe out of war. It never does. The Ukrainians are looking for allies in their time of need. They will find them here they can. It is unfortunate Matt Taibbi keeps his distance and does not appear to be one of them.
Have you enlisted? Have your children or grandchildren enlisted? How many Americans are you willing to sacrifice? Look at our politicians' foolish actions that got us to this place and every other place for the last 6 decades. How long do we continue down the same path? It's not their children who are dying.
No one is asking for Americans to die. You might have asked those questions when the war on terror began. You might have thrown blood at the Pentagon. You might have done something to stop it. Maybe you did, but somehow I doubt it. When you cannot commit to siding with people fighting for their freedom and independence, maybe no one will come to help you when or if your time comes.
The meds seem to be taking effect. Finally. My God, everyone on this forum was starting to worry about you. We all acknowledge that every forum needs a Phisto Sobanii. It is critical. This way even the stupidest and dullest among us can feel superior to someone. Thank you. Thank you.
No mention of the freedom from Tyranny Russian speakers in Ukraine were suffering eh. Those in the Donetsk People's Republic were subjected to continuous shelling since 2014, many thousands were killed & even more maimed. Russian speakers in the east who weren't in the DNR were bashed, raped & murdered - many who were grabbed by the nazi thugs who'd been given free rein in the east by Ukraine 'government' were tortured until they signed over land, businesses & homes to the torturers, yet apparently they don't count eh. They don't conform to the profile Ukranian 'hero Stepan Bandera (see https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778) demanded.
These nazis who make up a tiny % of the Ukrainian population have been allowed to rule because they have been armed by nato who want to strike out at Russia for the crime of showing eu nations up by not signing control of national assets to amerikan corporations. Consequently all Ukrainian pols live in fear. If they do not do as the nazis insist their families will be murdered - doesn't sound like freedom to me.
The US is responsible for bringing the worst politicians into to power in the Ukraine; and their continuing aim is to use Straussian shock tactics to stir up endless war for as long as possible. The "Chicago Boys" don't care if the suffering here in States grows worse, either, as part of the process,...so long as their drive for hegemony and unipolar power can be ground out for a few years longer.
The Chicago Boys brought Yeltsin and those sinister masterminds who have created hell in various places. Kristol and Wolfowitz, Kagan and Nuland; they all have blood on their hands, for 2015 and all the killing of civilians in the Donbas. This world-ending "open the skies" nonsense, for the sake of "the babies" is the kind of shit-faced insanity one would expect of them.
The fascists from Kiev, who have terrorized the people answer to their masters in Washington, and to them alone. They are kitted up by the CIA and the Pentagon, and are surfing on an inhuman wave of propaganda, a monstrosity, created by all the PR firms hired by NATO.
Russian troll. This is completely the Kremlin line. It is not some independent, humanitarian position. You mouth Lavrov’s points but you lack his panache and eduction. Oh, my you are quoting the History Network. I stand before a person of immense learning it seems. Not really. Send up someone that a tually reads history books..
You know nothing. I have no ties to any nation or government, but I have listened to the tales told by all sides of this mess and have made a judgement based upon the veracity of the humans involved. It is you who troll for the nazi creeps who completely destroyed Ukraine once and will do so again if permitted.
Nearly 30 million soviet citizens, a great many of them Ukrainian, were slaughtered by nazis the last time nazis took control of Ukraine. Stepan Bandera was their local ringleader. Although many Ukrainian speakers welcomed the nazis initially, once they saw what Bandera & co were visiting upon the people their attitude changed to the point they welcomed the red army when they returned.
This is why nazis only poll at around 2% - people remember. Ukranians voted for a president who was going to stand up to the nazis, seek an agreement with Russia and implement the Minsk deal, however once the cocaine addicted comedian got in power it only took a couple of 'quiet words' from nazi militias who made threats on his family for that to get chucked out the window.
Ukrainians voted for a rapprochement with Russia but Zelenskyy & co ignored that and went with what amerika & the nazis wanted - you call that 'freedom'? I call it extortion.
That's his standard response when cornered. Pathetic insults, directed either at the speaker or the source.
Even if I were Russian (I have not a drop of Slavic blood in me, nor am I married or related to a Russian or a Ukrainian) it doesn't change my arguments, any more than pointing out that the defense attorney is paid to defend his client makes the alibi go away.
You know nothing. If you made sense, the Russian army would have rolled over Ukraine in a week. That the war drags on is the best proof what a deluded ass you are. You rehash stale propaganda and let fly. Your scribe could have been pulled froma 1970s screed on WWII by Moscow Publishers. The heads of the FSB, apparently, presented the same version of history and events to Putin that you just recited. They have been arrested. You are fortunate to be in-the West, still free you run about shouting the same puerile lies. 90% of people in Ukraine today, Catholic, Orthodox, Moslem and Jew, is a Banderite now. Putin has seen to that. Crawl back in hole narrow little ideological hole. No one agrees with you except a narrow strata of pro Russian, pro Putin, anti-Western mutants.
So tell 1) if America is so fucked up, a guy with your brains could be a king there. Why are you still here? 2) Tell me 3 things that you really think Russia has going for it compared to other places. and 3) I don’t even know what the Current Thing is. Please explain. I don’t speak cult.
The main things Russia has going for it are: physical resources; strategic depth; a large, curiously stubborn population and culture; the weird economics and politics of its sworn enemy; and great usefulness to China / Eastasia, which, without Russia, would have Oceania on its back.
That is why Putin is positioning has country to be a Chinese vassal. To finance his vanity war against Ukraine, he will allow China to buy up Russian assets, in rubles. What a bargain? Xi views Putin as a third rate tin-pot Slav strong man whose country contains loads of resources China needs. Unless Russian elites intervene, Russia will not be undone by the West, it will become a fully owned subsidiary of China. That won’t be fun.
I really don't know how so many people know so much about what's in Putin's (or Xi's, or your favorite neocons') heads, to say nothing of the surrounding material facts. Maybe I'm happier not knowing.
Come to think of it, being China's vassal may be preferable to being the US's vassal, given the violence of recent American history with regard to actual and potential vassals. But again, I don't know. Maybe I'm already China's vassal and don't know it!
"The way that can be gone is not the everlasting way;
The name that can be named is not the everlasting name."
"Those who know don't say; those who say don't know."
Or "a very tricky people" as Garry Trudeau's character Duke is made to say.
For further information, consult the _Book of Changes_.
What have the downsides been for Central European Countries that joined the EU or NATO? If they are vassals of the West, what were they under the Warsaw Pact? As for China, the liberties you enjoy are being stripped away for Hong Kong as we write.
We could start by not supporting the murderous Saudi war in Yemen. And Biden could stop starving children in Afghanistan.
Then after we stop being complicit in mass murder we could start looking at other atrocities committed by others and figure out which ones we could help stop at the least risk of making things worse.
The war in Yemen is a tragedy for the people of Yemen. It also appears to be a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran. I am not sure the US has that much influence over both sides to really do anything. As for Afghanistan, yes Biden could provide aid to Afghan instant. I suspect if a tenth of the money stolen during the Afghan war was recovered, there would be no humanitarian crisis. We could have rebuilt Vietnam. Empires suck. Such is the power of people's war. If you really care about hunger in Afghanistan - write you Senator and Congressperson. I am not being glib. If you want to pressure policy that is one of the only effective ways left to the citizenry of our country. It is odd that the Ukraine has held off Russia for a month and the Ghani regime in Afghanistan folded in a week to guys on mopeds with RPGs.
That’s true about writing to Congress, though it says something really bad about us that Yemen has been going on for seven years.
But the Saudis couldn’t fight this war without our help. Before Ukraine people would say there were reasons why we had to keep the Saudis happy. How can it be that we can’t get our own supposed ally which depends on our arms to cease blockading and bombing Yemen? The answer is that the US government doesn’t care that much— keeping the Saudis happy is a higher priority for three successive Administrations.
The humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan has actually been made much worse by Biden. Ezra Klein had a good piece on this a month ago.
And yes, it does show how worthless our nation building efforts were when the government collapsed almost instantly.
So there is a paradox here. I would take the Spanish civil war analogies more seriously if we really showed by our own actions that we won’t tolerate war crimes committed by ourselves or our allies, but that isn’t the case. And people outside the West see this very clearly. I am not saying other countries are better than we are— just that our elites live in some fantasy world where they are always the good guys standing up to Hitler.
I agree with you. Kissinger should have been tried for his crimes in Southeast Asia. If he had been tried, maybe there would have been no Cheney, Runsfeld, Wolfowitz… Instead he is a revered statesman. Unfortunately every criminal goes to jail.
Ah, but you miss a point. The Saudis led by the murdering MBS buy guided missiles from Raytheon, Fighter planes from Lockheed Martin and gobs more, all with the U.S. government blessings.
Saudi aircraft totally don't need parts, and besides, you can get F-15 parts and maintenance at any airport! Saudi pilots don't need training, Saudi missiles don't need replenishing, Saudis don't need satellite recon or targeting information, they don't need Patriot missiles or assistance with their naval blockade, diplomatic cover or any number of other things that they get from the US.
Truly, these Saudis are wonderful. I guess there's nothing we can do....
Often when I mention the horrendous crimes of our beloved friends and allies, I am reflexively accused of "whataboutism" which they have been literally programmed to believe is a "classic Russian technique". They also believe that once they say that, it's the end of the argument and that I have been "exposed" as a "PTUIN apologist"
Mind control is now perfected science.
*Saudi just executed an astonishing eighty one people in just one day. No need to imagine the reaction had Putin done that.
**They chop the heads off women there for being "witches"
Feral, I mean no disrespect but I don't understand "outrageous hypocrites". This is the debate taking place in the bible and all the other ancient myths and legends. It is the debate between moral rectitude and survival. It isn't hypocrisy at all but the power of belief. We are talking early hominid.
My go to philosopher in these times is Yuval Noah Harari. This is what he has studied his whole life.
Ultimately only 2 countries mattered. The Italians and the Mexicans although ideologically aligned to one side or the other were too poor to have more than a minimal impact. Also, both Italy and Mexico were not western-style democracies at the time. As a matter of fact, I know quite a bit about the war. I lived in Spain in the 1970s, travelled somewhat extensively and met the parents of friends who we're on both sides of the war. Mexico and Italy were a side show.
I attended the University of Barcelona 1969 - 70, and worked in Sitges and Logrono. Got to know many students that were fortunate to attend university and were glad the streets were safe. Ideologues are flashy, but who speaks for the farmer whose barn was burned repeatedly over the last eight years by the SBD? Zalinsky is surely scripted and knows this destruction brought on by US and EU hubris could have been avoided. War is hell, and Hell is full of politicians and apologists!
Well then, you are a Francoite, a Falangist. Yes, I understand now. The street were safe and boy was it cheap. I was there when Franco died and even many people who sided with the Nationalists in the Civil War were sick of 40 years of Francoism. They could look across to France and see how Spain had remained poor and neglected. I can understand from your perspective of Spain why Putin must seem as an attractive figure. He is also a law and order an, a man of devout faith. Zalinsky (sic) on the other hand is perhaps the most popular leader in the world today. He is in a bunker in Kyiv. Courage is not scripted. He knows what he is fighting for. The people of the Ukraine know what are fighting for. This war was not brought on by EU and US hubris. It is a colonial war to subjugate the people of one country by another. Some things are worth fighting and dying for.
yes, of course, and the Russian and Greek people in the Donbas and Mariupol wanted the years of fighting over -- and the Donbas as well as Crimea wanted out of the imposed restrictions on Russian language and schools. Unfortunately, for the elitists in Kiev, they poked the Bear too often. It is their war to fight. The U.S. has hurt that poor nation enough -- and yes, there were certain things (safety and access to schools, and (though censored and restricted often) that Franco's Spain offered. It's very dangerous on Las Ramblas now -- and rents are out of control. And with these insane EU sanctions, strikes will only get worse.
First Alex, Most of eastern Ukraine is Russian speaking. The so called suppression of the Russian language that the Russians described in 2014 it never came to pass. Russian -speaking Ukrainians are fighting against Russians today. Since 2014, Ukraine has sloughed off much of the lethargy of the old post Soviet oligarchies. The break away Republics in Donbass and the annexation of Crimea were a part of Putin's attempt to carve up Ukraine in chaos following the 20124 Maidan Uprising. He was stopped, then, mainly by volunteers. Had he succeeded he would have taken Odessa and Kharkiv. I know that there are sources information here that appear unbiased with respect to Ukraine. They that paint NATO as the aggressor against Russias. They cast the Maidan revolution in 2014 as a CIA coup and they paint the Ukrainian government as a nest of narrow radical nationalists, Neo-nazis even. This is a minority view. It is closely aligned with Kremlin thinking. Compared to Russia and Belarus, Ukraine became a model of openness and freedom since 2014. Pro Russian parties existed, there was a pro-Russian press. Millions of Europeans travelled widely there and they travelled freely and found the people for the most part welcoming. What Putin has brought is war and devastation. No matter how it ends, it will end badly for Russia. The US did not cause economic pain to Russia. Russian state assets have been looted for decades and the people left ignorant and impoverished. Russian elites have raised their thieving to a level unimaginable before to this. The Ukrainians did not provoke a bear. A bear sat on Ukraine 400 years ago. It was forced off several times since then. But the bear has old habits, it keeps on wanted to sit where it is no longer welcome. Now the bear is tasting the pain of its bad habits.
I've been on earth awhile...and yes, I lived and travelled pretty much all over...still have to see New Zealand and Brazil...the Congo...but extensive reading is a great adventure!
Kopek is correct: this is a Russian fascist colonial war to subjugate a neighboring people. “Nazis” indeed—Democratic Ukraine has both a Jewish President and a Jewish Foreign Minister! There are lots of Moscow-boys around today.
Apparently I'm sacrificing for the cause by paying $5/gallon of gas, heading towards food shortages, and 20%+ inflation, etc. Jesus, my Porsche already sank of the coast of Africa...I've been devastated. What more can a consumer sacrifice?
Are you saying my sacrifice is for naught? If so, then can i get my old prices backs and some food security until the War Pigs here and abroad get things sorted?
PS why won't Ukraine pledge to never be in NATO and EU??? Seems like a good idea absent a threat from Russia.
It is not about NATO. It is about Ukraine. Without Ukraine, Russia is a second rate country that imports technology in exchange for oil. It is Nigeria with nuclear weapons. With Ukraine, Russia is an empire. That is the point. Putin and Russian nationalist believe aUkraine and Ukrainians are a fiction. This is no secret. Putin wants to turn Ukrainians into ‘Little Russians’. He wants a world where no Ukraine exists. That is why the Ukrainians are fighting as valiantly as they are. Putin has displaced 10 million people, he has leveled cities, he has opened a pandora's box that will be hard to close. In 1994, Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal in exchange for security and sovereignty guarantees from Britain, the US and Russia. It was called the Budapest Accord. Russia broke that accord in 2014. Sorry about gas, here it is $6 per gallon. Drill baby drill.
It is about EU/NATO. Prior to 2014, the EU/NATO gets Yanukovych impeached because he suspends the EU association agreement and then Ukraine gets out of the commons agreement. Then Putin acts. If Russia is second rate w/o Ukraine, what is Germany without Russian gas (that still flows and is being paid for)?
To pretend this is some isolated Ukraine/Russia issue is silly, if it weren't about EU/NATO then why wasn't the rabble roused to this extent when Russia had similar engagements like with Chechen?
If you think that Germany cannot wean of Russian gas, you understand nothing of global economics. As for rabble, your tone suggests a superiority you do nor deserve. You sound like rabble.
You lack a grasp of Ukrainian History. Ukraine is in the process of nation building. For the last 300 years Ukrainian nationhood had been suppressed by Russians, Poles, Austro-Hungarians, Germans and Communists. Ukrainians have been coerced, imprisoned, exiled, deported and killed by foreign powers who coveted Ukrainian land but loathed the Ukrainian language, its culture, its people. If you think the people in Ukraine today are fighting for a pipeline or are just pawns in a bigger game, you must not know many Ukrainians. After centuries of Russian/Soviet domination they have tasted the promise of civil society, citizenship and the rights of man. As a vassal of Russia they and their children would remain serfs to who ever controls the army, the militia and the police. Until the 2014 Maidan, their hadn’t been an honest election in Ukraine. Elections were a card game between oligarchs. The end of that system terrified Putin and his cronies.
Thanks for telling the clusterfuck of europe over the past 300 years from Ukraine's perspective. Ukrainians have three choices, be a vassal of Russia, be independent, or be a vassal of the west. They seem to want the latter.
The place is corrupt, and is being used as a pawn in a proxy war, we're not buying your BS, sorry.
Yes, the West or The East. The mall and Cheesecake Factory or the gulag and barley soup. Vassal of the West, like Poland, The Czech Republic, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia? yeah, you betcha. Like Belarus? I don’t think so.
Did you miss the part where the fucking Communists through stabbing the POUM and anarchists in the back was more important than beating Franco? Because the revolution in Catalonia wasn’t going the “right way?”
Orwell was pretty clear on that shit. In fact, had he the chance to do it all over again he would’ve sided with anarchists. Look it up, if you don’t believe me.
You’re such a fucking piece of trash, Kopek. At least the shit birds in the video were kind enough to be brief.
You? I don’t know what you are. Probably a fucking liar, just the Communists, willing to do whatever it takes to see your way forward no matter how many people get killed in the process.
Where did I writer that, Phisto? Put down the pipe and show me where. As for your bad mouthing, keep it down, your mom is over here entertaining us guys at the fire house.
I don't fault the Ukrainians for asking for help. We need to have a sober and realistic discussion of our country's actions. Crystal and the other neocons have low (but not entirely non existent) credibility. Matt has much higher credibility. Let the discussion continue without the ad hominem attacks.
I have been alarmed as of late by Matt's writings about Canada and his lack of understanding that Canada went Federalist rather than central planning. Blaming our federal government for its role as coordinators of sovereign entities told me what it means to live in a bubble. Even in Canada many if not most misunderstand that Quebec is sovereign. Alberta is sovereign. Ontario is sovereign. British Columbia is sovereign. We are a federation of sovereign territories that choose to be part of a confederation. Our Federal government is our international voice but the 10 dollar a day childcare was Ontario's choice not Canada's choice. Quebec had already guaranteed affordable universal daycare Canada could only offer Ontario the option or the $10 a day reasonable alternative. Canada is a democracy not a flawed democracy like the USA.
I suspect your problem is with perspective. The world is a different place outside of your walls.
Forty years ago I would have believed it fantasy that Canada would have more democracy and freedom and have a higher standard of living than the USA. Today Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have more freedom and democracy and a higher standard of living than the USA. The rhetoric has no relationship to the performance.
The US certainly needs to be sober about its actions. Unfortunately, recent US actions have not always been sober or self-interested. As for sources, no single source is ever completely right or wrong. A preponderance of balanced sources it what is require. Folding Matt in does no harm to anything, relying on Matt or his circle to the exclusion of other sources is indefensible. Ad hominem attacks begin when honest discussion ends. The failure to recognize events and evidence that exists outside of a narrow, ideological lens lead nowhere.
Is your moral outrage stirred by the 500,000 that have been slaughtered in the last few years in the Ethiopian Civil war? I'm a whole helluva lot more outraged by this but again, what would we do? Oh, well, it's not in US interest, so never mind.
Of course I was morally outraged by Eritrea and equally by the Central African Republic. I thought Trump's Secretary of State Rex Tillerson belonged in The Hague not in Washington but nobody wanted to listen. Some of us grew up with Chomsky or if you were here in Montreal with Irving Layton.
Layton was born in Romania in 1912 and died in Montreal in 2006. He said these things out loud and Canada loved to hate Irving Layton. Layton spoke truth to power and Canada loved hating Irving whose best selling book of poetry was titled For My Brother Jesus.
You're talking your own moral outrage and hearing your own voices. This argument has been going on since some one celled organism thought another one celled organism had a better position in the blob.
You don't belong here if you can't understand what is going on. We don't share common epistemologies. We believe different things.
There was a genocide in the Central African Republic under the supervision of Exxon. If you followed Chomsky you would have known about American hegemony.
Moe, Thanks for attaching the Twain piece. Hands down he was one of the greatest writers the US produced. As to your second point, 60 years ago, the 1960s?, the Soviet Union was still run by a pretty zealous group of Stalinists. Even with the Khrushchev de-Stalinization, the USSR - and the West - continued to view each other as mortal enemies. That only started to change with Nixon and Brezhnev.
Sixty years ago Irving Layton was a regular on CBC Television. He was a poet and he used words like assassins use daggers. Layton did not shy away from the camera 60 years ago and his words 60 years later show us how little has changed.
This stuff works, it always has. Hello, Merkel, an actual scientist sees one dead Syrian kid on a Beach and she changed her mind from few refugees to a million. Of course, the hundreds of thousands killed by OUR Jihaddi mercenaries means nothing. Sees Fukashima and shuts down All the German nukes so they can burn lignite, the most polluting coal. Irrational, Oh yeah but if it affects her with a doctorate in quantum chemistry, how does it affect us? Paleo emotional capacity, medieval institutions and god like technology; not a good recipe for survival especially when the world is run by the sociopaths.
That's exactly it. How could we possibly trust this administration and those that came before it to do the right thing when our leadership is corrupt down to its bone? And sociopath is the correct word.
These "Close the Sky" people make me nauseous. They have no idea that they are begging for World War 3. They have no concept of Mutually Assured Destruction. It's terrifying.
Whoa! Somebody's beating, stripping and raping that poor woman! Somebody ought to _do_ something! It's terrible! I would, but, as a man, and, with everything that men have gotten up to over the decades since the rise of political Feminism, it's really not my place. Won't someone whose moral record is spotless step forward and help?!?!?!?!
In other news, sources in the Biden administration have confirmed that Will Smith's assault on Chris Rock at last night's Oscar ceremony was personally authorized by Vladimir Putin. "Smith clearly used a Kremlin-linked slap technique," said CIA head William Burns. "We've seen this kind of weaponized Muscovite man-slap used over and over against innocent civilians in Mariupol and elsewhere in Ukraine." President Biden said, "He can't remain in power now. Smith cannot remain in power in Hollywood."
It was a mostly peaceful award show
Yeah, I know. I feel bad for everybody involved in that incident, including Will Smith, who had a childhood full of physical abuse. Too bad he hasn't worked through that.
So he became his father? How humiliating. He's got enough money to pay for therapy for every day of his life, all day long, if the wanted it. No excuses. He's an ass. Did you see him partying afterward? He made an enormous error in judgement. And me thinks he was worried about the smack Chris Rock would bring on Jada and Will's open marriage. I'm sure it will play into Rock's next tour!
Psychological 'therapy' is mostly bullshit, and almost always ineffective. Some things like phobias are treatable. Lifelong habits and thinking? Not so much.
Well then he should manage to be his own person (and not his father) all on his own.
Yes.
Personal responsibility or bust!
Most of us become our fathers, for better or worse. Of course he made an enormous error in judgment. He's already paid the price for it. He went from well-liked film actor to pariah on what should've been the best night of his professional life: a Shakespearean transformation.
Chris Rock will always be the guy who got slapped in front of a billion people. It lives forever on the internet and it will likely translate to incessant jokes/ridicule on Smith's behalf. It was beyond dumb for him to do what he did and I'm sure he realizes that now. And if we do become our fathers, whew...that's great news for me! But if you had an abusive father, you do everything to stop the cycle. That lasting impression might be what gets him the therapy he needs.
Poor rich people. Whose every moves are tolerated, even rewarded.
What cracks me up about the whole deal is how Hollywood, which is ALWAYS judging the rest of America, can't judge this. Yes, a man has to defend the honor of His Woman! Tammy Wynette/George Jones would be proud. Hilarious.
Lost my hair in chemo. So what. Jada is a beautiful strong woman. A HAIR JOKE unleashed the Kraken? That in itself is hilarious. The elites, in this case Hollywood, are so pathetic. They have no clue, nor are they interested.
No sympathy for Smith. He blew it.
Got that right.
Like
It definitely had all the hallmarks of a Russian slapping operation.
There's no disputin' it was Putin. Only a Russian hand puppet would disagree.
Or a Victoria Nuland puppet?
175 former intelligence officials have written a letter to that effect.
Drop the mic Dude, you totally killed it. If the CIA and Schiff confirmed it, it's gotta be true. If you don't believe them, you're obviously a Putin loyalist...
Oh, man--my compliments! You killed!
The Babylon Bee could use you! Thanks for brightening my day.
My pleasure. I take these opportunities for slapstick wherever I find them!
The Russians actually DO have a slapfighting sport they invented.
It's a thing.
Still this was priceless commentary and for that I thank you.
I didn't know that! I was just channeling Schiff. I swear to God I was just shape-Schiffting!
You’re on fire!
I had to chase a bunch of Sovs out of my yard this AM.
Clearly the only solution is global. nuclear. war.
No big deal!
Yes, Schiff has confirmed it had all the "hallmarks" of a "kremlin" slap.
Straight outta Putin's Kremlin playbook - see how Smith didn't use the standard de-platforming designed to deal with the types who make jokes about those with disabilities, he resorted to his wife's being demeaned with violence, settling an issue immediately rather than litigating via the media which would have sold fishwraps for months as every twist & turn in the dispute was enacted, analysed then pronounced upon.
It’s highly arguable if a “no-fly-zone” is the best idea, but meanwhile Ukrainian children DO get blown to pieces by Russia. Fortunately we’ve got great jokers here to keep us relaxed. After all, America should stop looking abroad and instead deal with its own serious problems, such as Will Smith slapping Academy Awards presenters. Anyway, as others have explained on this site, those children die only because their parents insist on fighting, instead of accepting Putin’s warm embrace.
Have fun, folks. When your turn will come, we’ll be watching and eating popcorn.
"It has all the Hallmarks"
Indeed, it has all the facemarks of a Russian slapdown.
Omg worthy of the onion
Worthy of the onion? That makes me cry onion tears of joy!
You are on a roll, Mark! Good on ya.
Try to close the sky and we all could die, including those precious babies.
There appear to be a lot of morons that think a direct conflict between two nuclear armed powers won't or can't end up as a holocaust for all of humanity.
Well, Bill Kristol was there, so it was certainly meant to be a moronfest.
Really only takes ONE nuclear power to do that, given a willingness to ‘pull the trigger’.
Obama tried appeasement; wait ‘till Iran crashes the A-Party, see where Biden’s efforts to pick up that ball leads.
There’s no negotiating with religious fanatics same as with criminally insane oligarchs. Biden’s every appearance only adds insult to earlier insults.
Obama's appeasement was a Nazi-backed coup in 2014 and a simmering War on Terror where 14,000 people were killed in Donbas.
Not exactly appeasing anyone there except the energy and weapons sectors -certainly not a foreign government. That guy's administration deleted what... five sovereign governments in eight years?
LOL Biden would break a hip on the ball as he slips trying to find it.
He'll go on camera and lie straight faced though.
His every appearance only makes it worse for sure.
People like you are why wars never end. People like you are why we are going to have that final battle between shit and shittier. Good luck with that you freak.
Have you actually witnessed the splitting of an atom? First, you got to get an "atom".
Exactly. This is not our fight. The Ukranians have done Putin's bidding in the past. Now they are arging with him, and they want the powerful US to get involved. We can feel sympathy for them without acting dangerously. We can even try to hasten his demise, but starting a war with him is not the answer.
WE CAUSED THIS MESS or are you unaware of meddling in Ukraine by people like Victoria Nuland?
I had never heard of Nuland, she slipped under my radar, thanks for the tip, just more Terrible foreign policy by the U.S. https://geopolitics.co/2022/03/01/ukraine-the-mess-that-victoria-nuland-made/
you’re through the looking glass now. ;)
👍
excerpts from (Garthoff, (1958) (Praeger Books, N.Y.)) "Soviet Strategy in the Nuclear Age"
______________________________________________________________________
… “The possibility of an effective international agreement to prohibit nuclear weapons must be recognized as very remote. But under the circumstances of nuclear stalemate through mutual deterrence, the United States might forego use of nuclear retaliation if the (Russian) provocation were clearly to involve less than a directly mortal threat. ...
<blockquote>The (Russians) recognize the value of exploiting this situation. The first objective presumably is the isolation of (those countries) from ”
(any present or future) strategic alliance (with) the United States.
...The (Russian) objective is expansion of power and influence, but only by ways in which (Russia) itself is not risked as the stake in an 'adventure.' ...(I)f nuclear weapons create a recognized stalemate, this stalemate would serve as a shield behind which …
(Russian) conventional military power could,, through threat and possibly in actual limited wars, be used to expand (Russian) control at much reduced risk (to itself). …
(T)here are cogent reasons for believing that (Russia) believes its greatest advantage would be served by avoiding thermonuclear war and using her growing nuclear striking power to stalemate American deterrent power, and then to take advantage of this neutralization for purposes of gradual and probable indirect aggrandizement. …
(T)he possibility of a major non-nuclear war in Europe remains strong enough—and may increase in likelihood—so that the question of preparation for waging such a war should concern all great powers. The (Russians) realize this and plan accordingly. …
(T)here is one (potential) case of a major, though not world, war under which the (Russians) may attempt to place the West in a position where we will not use nuclear weapons: a major (Russian) challenge which they deem insufficient to provoke us to all-out massive retaliation under prevailing circumstances of mutual strategic deterrence. Thus, at some time, the (Russians) might launch a non-nuclear attack on (Germany), or on Western Europe in general, if they had been led to judge mutual deterrence to be so strong a restraint on American action that we would withhold our nuclear fire in response to such a major (italic emph.) _conventional_ attack in which neither major protagonist was directly threatened. This might at the least present us—and the people of the area involved—with a most difficult choice, and conceivably lead us, in line with (Russian) expectations, to forego our relative advantage in the use of nuclear weapons and to fight a major non-nuclear war. …
(The Russians) might well anticipate enormous gains in Europe and other areas on the Eurasian periphery. And, (italic emph.) _so long as the mutual deterrence was maintained,_ these gains could be made at assumable—indeed minimum—risks.”
___________________________________________________
Since 1945, the U.S. has waged hot proxy-wars in Korea--on the "door-step" of both China and the Soviet Union; neither Mao nor Stalin, both having atomic weapons, used them; in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Lebanon, and in Grenada, Bosnia, Croatia, Haiti, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan (where Bin Laden had taken refuge!), Libya, Uganda--in _all_ those cases, U.S. armed forces fought with other national forces. In Iraq and in Somalia, the United States fought against what were both literally and in every other sense what were nothing . but criminal gangs. Again, in none of these cases was there any use of nuclear weapons in response or retaliation.
The assumption that Russian or Chinese or Korean or Pakistani military acts cannot be met with organized armed force without a dangerously probable counter-attack by these nations' nuclear armaments has been shown to be false--not in "theory"-- in real-world practice.
Figure it out: in much of the world, places are ruled by organized criminal gangs--and, today, the United States themselves have a White House administration which is little or no better than a gang of lawless (whenever it suits them) thugs in business suits.
From time to time this is going to provoke, by necessity, an armed combat response. This has always been the case. This is always going to be the case.
If these cunts really cared about Ukrainian moms and babies they would have protested in 2004 and 2014.
They don't though, and Bill Kristol is a paid for shill working for the arms and energy industries.
This wasn't so much a "protest" as it was an advertisement.
If they cared about Ukrainian moms and babies they would act to end the war as quickly as possible, instead of turning Ukraine into another (though far more profitable for the Right People) Syria.
While I agree that the war is partially just a racket for the usual military-industrial parasites, let's be honest--at this point 'end the war as quickly as possible' is just another way of saying "have Ukraine surrender to all of Putin and Russia's demands."
And if that's the go-to strategy, is there any reason to believe Putin won't eventually take the rest of Ukraine, if this incursion allows him to pry away the Donbas and the Eastern part of the country?
You could argue a no-fly zone and a prolonged insurgency isn't in the interest of average Ukrainians, but neither is being at the mercy of a revanchist Russia's oligarchs.
Only one thing is certain: William Kristol and the neocons have zero moral authority to weigh in on any of this. They propagated the very ideology that Putin is now turning back around on the West. They should have been shamed into hiding a long time ago.
Russia has made concrete diplomatic proposals. Ukraine has refused to entertain them, presumably at the behest of its American masters.
And apparently Zelensky has made counterproposals. Ones involving entirely reasonable things like, say, security guarantees that Russia will not invade again. Russia hasn't entertained those, presumably at the behest of the oligarchs--Putin's masters.
But that's what I was saying. The quickest route to peace (outside of Putin withdrawing his troops) might be for Ukraine to cave to all of Putin's demands, but that's really not in the long term interest of Ukraine any more than a protracted war, since doing so would incentivize Putin to take whatever parts of Ukraine he doesn't get from the deal. Basically Ukraine is in an impossible situation. Russia, on the other hand, is not. Russia could end this all right now by withdrawing and leaving Ukraine alone.
However, while much of this is on Putin, much of it is also the neocon's fault, for normalizing this kind of behavior. I disagree with Matt on this point. Norms do count for something. Once a powerful nation establishes a precedent, less powerful nations will follow it. I honestly think this invasion wouldn't be happening if we had stayed out of Iraq, since this is just the Eurasian version of that war.
Zelenskii keeps changing his position. And yes, he rules a puppet state. Note how the United States is able to dictate Ukrainian personnel and policy.
BTW, you should know that, unlike in Ukraine, the oligarchs in Russia are politically neutered.
I was gonna say that. This bullshit idea the State Department is pushing, namely that Russia is just like the United States, with Billionaires calling the shots, is just rank propaganda. Russia’s “oligarchs” owe everything to Putin, and want to stay as far away from even a hint that they are fucking with Hizzoner as they can
I have seen little evidence that Putin is beholdin to anyone, other than his security services who always have a voice/power in any country.
Behest or befehl? I am going with befehl. Und befehl ist befehl ja?
Point taken. More likely the conversation frequently involves the word "bitch".
As in "Zelenskii, here's the way it's gonna be for you, bitch!"
Russia's demands are straightforward: recognition of her annexation of Crimea; annexation or self-government for the Donbas and other Russian-speaking enclaves; international neutrality. These are entirely digestible by Ukraine, especially in the face of almost certain Russian victory in any case. So the question is, how much death and destruction to you invite onto your own country for the sake of ultimately futile posturing to the West?
What happens after that is anyone's guess, but despite the hysterical pearl-clutching of the media elites, Putin is not Hitler.
In contrast to Russia's crystal-clear war aims, what are the potential war aims of the West? Aside from (profitably) turning Ukraine into a wasteland and Biden's hamfisted exhortation of regime change in Russia?
Who now (if I may reference Michael Tracey) are the adults in the room?
The West has a concrete war aim. To turn Russia into another former Yugoslavia.
Ukrainians are merely the patsies being used as cannon fodder.
"So the question is, how much death and destruction to you invite onto your own country for the sake of ultimately futile posturing to the West?"
This was precisely what the neocons said to the Iraqis. Replace 'the West' with 'the Islamic world' and you could have stolen this from the mouth of William Kristol, George W...the whole rotten lot.
Like I said, Putin's just doing to Ukraine what the US neocons did to Iraq. To cast the besieged country as the irresponsible one also takes a page from their playbook. ('those irresponsible Ukrainians, defending their home as soldiers from a neighboring country come rushing in!')
Even taking your statement as accurate, we're still raging hypocrites, condemning behavior in others when we ourselves are guilty of ten times worse.
And then there's the fact that we wanted this war, and certainly did nothing to descalate when that was a option.
https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/yes-its-a-proxy-war-notes-from-the?s=r
Official American policy is to resist negotiated cease-fires!
No, you are mistaken. What the neocons said to the Iraqis is, "We are going to invade your country and impose a new regime on you whether you like it or not, regardless of the consequences, because we can."
I have no idea how you equate my comment with the criminally stupid blathering from that quarter (who, as Matt points out, are at it again, in an apparent attempt to bring the blessings of their Iraq and Syria policies to Eastern Europe).
No, that is what the neocons *did*. (And what Putin is doing) What they *said* was some version of "this is for your own good, dear Iraqis; why are you continuing to perpetuate bloodshed by resisting us?"
Which is no different than asking Ukrainians, when they are being besieged by their neighbor, "how much death and destruction do you invite onto your own country for the sake of ultimately futile posturing to the West?"
It's what the wife beater does when he says to his spouse, as he is beating her, "I wouldn't have to beat you as hard if you would just stop fighting back!"
Meanwhile, CNN confirms that the United States is actively seeking to prolong the war be preventing successful peace negotiations.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/29/politics/us-intelligence-russia-ukraine-kyiv-strategy/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=twCNNi&utm_content=2022-03-29T14%3A00%3A09
"The official said one consequence the US is concerned about is keeping the European allies unified on economic pressure and military support as Washington expects some of them to press Ukraine to accept a peace deal to end the fighting."
There you have it. Right there in black and white, and from an impeccably MSM source.
Preventing or otherwise gumming up negotiation has become an American specialty.
True. The sheeple are propagandized by the war pigs still.
If they really cared about life then they would not endlessly foment wars that do nothing but take them en masse.
Wars make money for the elites. They have exhausted all the resources so now they tear it down so they can charge for building it back up again. The people are scammed while the elites dine and laugh at us.
You just summed it up. With every expansion of NATO profits soar in the Arms industry as fighter planes and, (de) offensive missile sales soar. Power to the power while we puppets are fed specious media tripe.
If you would be capable of the slightest human feelings you would not heap garbage on people fighting for their freedom and dignity - in 2004, in 2014 and right now. Just like all those obsessed with conspiracy theories, you seem thoroughly unable to fathom the idea that people can fight and die for something else than CIA dollars. Exactly like Putin.
I have no desire to heap garbage on anyone; but it would seem like a good idea if we were not all turned to ashes, which we get gratis, thanks to vanity, out-sourced conflict, and support for escalation.
If you want to make sure that your precious little life is 100% safe, you have to kiss the boots of Putin or any other dictator with nukes, which doesn’t seem to bother you much. Your problem is that in this world there still are some people with a backbone, willing to take risks in order to live free, cramping your “safe” lifestyle.
my precious little life, those of Ukrainians, Russians, & yes, your precious little life too. really my lifestyle doesn't matter a jot. the risks of imperial expansion, however well intentioned, do.
That’s really funny! Any person in Europe, in the way of Russia’s evil for centuries, would read your words on “risks of imperial expansion” as - obviously! - a reference to the deadly, historical expansion of the Russian empire. And yet, for clueless, narcissistic Americans, that’s a reference to the “American empire”, that figment of Americano- centric feverish imagination! You should get out more in the real world!
As a European: the idea that the whole of Europe would, reflexively, think of imperial expansion as being Russian, as opposed to British, French, American or German - would seem absurd.
Indeed, the idea that the whole of Europe follows your opinion would seem more like narcissism, than listening to the few independent voices that call for peace, and de-escalation.
While there is still a Europe for you to see: visit Ireland, go to the Falls Road, ask (carefully) who the imperial enemy is. Ask them how clueless & narcissistic the Americans were, that supported their struggle for years. Then stand well back.
Or maybe I’m not an American and for me this is not a parlor game of useless words the way it is for you. Maybe I have personal experiences of the popular uprisings such as those in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014 and I feel deeply offended when bad faith ignorants who get their opinions from loonie websites and Russian propaganda label them as “US-backed Nazi coups”. Go play your word games in the safety of the US but just in case you’re not totally narrow minded, imagine that some people in this world have to fight something more than wokeness.
If you close the sky, the babies die anyway, along with everyone else. Nobody survives WW3. Nobody.
bill kristol has to be one of the most loathsome americans of the past generation or so, maybe this side of the cheneys.
we are suffering through all this warmongering partly because none of the architects of the iraq disaster had to suffer any consequences or face any personal responsibility.
My acrimony toward those who would push the world toward global nuclear annihilation knows no bounds.
You know... for the children!
They're ghoulish cunts.
Who needs religion and scary ghosts and demons when we have the real thing in our midst???
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn,
I read "The Gulag Archapeligo"; found it so depressing I never read anything else by him. I see the situation differently. I believe that a small percentage of people are sociopaths and they are the ones who rise to positions of power in All Fields. He also stated when he living in the USA for a while, not to call him a hero, that the heroes were All Dead, he did what he had to do to survive and a lot of it, he wasn't proud of. We All know how society works; nice guy's finish last. It explains why there are so few Julian Assange type of people. Career people are rewarded for being "collegial" to use a nice word for obsequious. I read once about a Baboon tribe that like Homo sapiens has a similar social structure. The alpha males would rape the females and beat up on the regular male's and it was ongoing Chao's and misery for the majority of the baboons. One day, the alpha males got to a garbage pile and are their fill of the choicest garage. As it turned out, that was poison and they All died. Peace reigned in the tribe for a long while after that. You can go as far back in history as you want and no doubt pre history was the same and their was always an exploitive ruling class. They knew how to manipulate the narrative and thereby the minds of the masses. The difference now is the degree of the mind control based on science and the destructive technology that can literally end the world. If we had rational intelligence, we'd get rid of the technology before it gets rid of US!
There are 2.3 million people caged in America. Most of them are blacks or Chicanos. A gulag by any other name...
*more men are raped in US prisons then women are in the community
**This is seen as "just", and fodder for endless "soap" jokes. Even woke Twitter where prison rape 'jokes' are just fine.
Exactly! The biggest Gulag on earth but note, almost no banksters who stole trillions. Also note; Russian Oligarchy stole and hid in the offshore financial system..~>$200 billions. US Oligarchy stole and hid in the offshore system which includes the US part, for eg. Delaware,..~$1.5 trillions. Add other Oligarchy parasites around the world and it's breathtaking but they're untouchable.
And...the Russian Oligarchs and Mafia are based in Odessa, Ukraine. This is a problem that Putin, US and Ukraine should all combat together instead of having all of their strings pulled...
Bingo!
People like Kristol and Frum should be hated monsters, but there they are, paragons or something.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein
I believe it was very clever of Creator to designate our species to become co-creators proving that the process of creation returns to its original source taking many side trips, dallying with OCONUS lures even after that first lure named Eve proved a dalliance could have untoward consequences💖 I am singing and dancing, 🎉
I bet more than half of these "demonstrators" couldn't identify Ukraine on a map.
Yes, Matt Taibbi, the destruction of Mariupol was just one of those things that happen. Bill Kristol is an asshole, its not my problem and aw fuck, I spilled my beer. There was a time, when good people, common people, read about Spain, read about Guernica, and were moved at act. Orwell, who you wrote of a while back, was one of them. Ultimately, only two countries, Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, aided the combatants in Spain. Western democracies sat. they wrung their hands as they lamented the brutalities. Their appeals for peace, shouted from a sober distance as propaganda images of "parents embracing their children.... " played n newsreels. The realists won in Spain and for half a Century the democracies of the West lamented their failure to act more resolutely. They learned that fighting fascism is noble and necessary. And the Spainish, the Basques and the Catalans, they had to settle for almost 40 years of Francoist repression. Neutrality, ultimately didn't keep Europe out of war. It never does. The Ukrainians are looking for allies in their time of need. They will find them here they can. It is unfortunate Matt Taibbi keeps his distance and does not appear to be one of them.
Have you enlisted? Have your children or grandchildren enlisted? How many Americans are you willing to sacrifice? Look at our politicians' foolish actions that got us to this place and every other place for the last 6 decades. How long do we continue down the same path? It's not their children who are dying.
No one is asking for Americans to die. You might have asked those questions when the war on terror began. You might have thrown blood at the Pentagon. You might have done something to stop it. Maybe you did, but somehow I doubt it. When you cannot commit to siding with people fighting for their freedom and independence, maybe no one will come to help you when or if your time comes.
You’re transparently full of shit.
Try counting backwards, Phisto. Let's see 100, 99, 98. Oh sorry. I forgot it was you. 10, 9, 8....
Get some decent R rated insults, you clattering fanny.
The meds seem to be taking effect. Finally. My God, everyone on this forum was starting to worry about you. We all acknowledge that every forum needs a Phisto Sobanii. It is critical. This way even the stupidest and dullest among us can feel superior to someone. Thank you. Thank you.
No mention of the freedom from Tyranny Russian speakers in Ukraine were suffering eh. Those in the Donetsk People's Republic were subjected to continuous shelling since 2014, many thousands were killed & even more maimed. Russian speakers in the east who weren't in the DNR were bashed, raped & murdered - many who were grabbed by the nazi thugs who'd been given free rein in the east by Ukraine 'government' were tortured until they signed over land, businesses & homes to the torturers, yet apparently they don't count eh. They don't conform to the profile Ukranian 'hero Stepan Bandera (see https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778) demanded.
These nazis who make up a tiny % of the Ukrainian population have been allowed to rule because they have been armed by nato who want to strike out at Russia for the crime of showing eu nations up by not signing control of national assets to amerikan corporations. Consequently all Ukrainian pols live in fear. If they do not do as the nazis insist their families will be murdered - doesn't sound like freedom to me.
The US is responsible for bringing the worst politicians into to power in the Ukraine; and their continuing aim is to use Straussian shock tactics to stir up endless war for as long as possible. The "Chicago Boys" don't care if the suffering here in States grows worse, either, as part of the process,...so long as their drive for hegemony and unipolar power can be ground out for a few years longer.
The Chicago boys brought Putin to power you fucking halfway. Read a book.
The Chicago Boys brought Yeltsin and those sinister masterminds who have created hell in various places. Kristol and Wolfowitz, Kagan and Nuland; they all have blood on their hands, for 2015 and all the killing of civilians in the Donbas. This world-ending "open the skies" nonsense, for the sake of "the babies" is the kind of shit-faced insanity one would expect of them.
The fascists from Kiev, who have terrorized the people answer to their masters in Washington, and to them alone. They are kitted up by the CIA and the Pentagon, and are surfing on an inhuman wave of propaganda, a monstrosity, created by all the PR firms hired by NATO.
Russian troll. This is completely the Kremlin line. It is not some independent, humanitarian position. You mouth Lavrov’s points but you lack his panache and eduction. Oh, my you are quoting the History Network. I stand before a person of immense learning it seems. Not really. Send up someone that a tually reads history books..
You know nothing. I have no ties to any nation or government, but I have listened to the tales told by all sides of this mess and have made a judgement based upon the veracity of the humans involved. It is you who troll for the nazi creeps who completely destroyed Ukraine once and will do so again if permitted.
Nearly 30 million soviet citizens, a great many of them Ukrainian, were slaughtered by nazis the last time nazis took control of Ukraine. Stepan Bandera was their local ringleader. Although many Ukrainian speakers welcomed the nazis initially, once they saw what Bandera & co were visiting upon the people their attitude changed to the point they welcomed the red army when they returned.
This is why nazis only poll at around 2% - people remember. Ukranians voted for a president who was going to stand up to the nazis, seek an agreement with Russia and implement the Minsk deal, however once the cocaine addicted comedian got in power it only took a couple of 'quiet words' from nazi militias who made threats on his family for that to get chucked out the window.
Ukrainians voted for a rapprochement with Russia but Zelenskyy & co ignored that and went with what amerika & the nazis wanted - you call that 'freedom'? I call it extortion.
That's his standard response when cornered. Pathetic insults, directed either at the speaker or the source.
Even if I were Russian (I have not a drop of Slavic blood in me, nor am I married or related to a Russian or a Ukrainian) it doesn't change my arguments, any more than pointing out that the defense attorney is paid to defend his client makes the alibi go away.
You know nothing. If you made sense, the Russian army would have rolled over Ukraine in a week. That the war drags on is the best proof what a deluded ass you are. You rehash stale propaganda and let fly. Your scribe could have been pulled froma 1970s screed on WWII by Moscow Publishers. The heads of the FSB, apparently, presented the same version of history and events to Putin that you just recited. They have been arrested. You are fortunate to be in-the West, still free you run about shouting the same puerile lies. 90% of people in Ukraine today, Catholic, Orthodox, Moslem and Jew, is a Banderite now. Putin has seen to that. Crawl back in hole narrow little ideological hole. No one agrees with you except a narrow strata of pro Russian, pro Putin, anti-Western mutants.
The source of his quote is irrelevant. Like your statist arguments.
Because everyone knows that Russians never ever ever shoot back.
I too love "The Current Thing" and denounce Russia.
beep bop boop
So tell 1) if America is so fucked up, a guy with your brains could be a king there. Why are you still here? 2) Tell me 3 things that you really think Russia has going for it compared to other places. and 3) I don’t even know what the Current Thing is. Please explain. I don’t speak cult.
The main things Russia has going for it are: physical resources; strategic depth; a large, curiously stubborn population and culture; the weird economics and politics of its sworn enemy; and great usefulness to China / Eastasia, which, without Russia, would have Oceania on its back.
That is why Putin is positioning has country to be a Chinese vassal. To finance his vanity war against Ukraine, he will allow China to buy up Russian assets, in rubles. What a bargain? Xi views Putin as a third rate tin-pot Slav strong man whose country contains loads of resources China needs. Unless Russian elites intervene, Russia will not be undone by the West, it will become a fully owned subsidiary of China. That won’t be fun.
I really don't know how so many people know so much about what's in Putin's (or Xi's, or your favorite neocons') heads, to say nothing of the surrounding material facts. Maybe I'm happier not knowing.
Come to think of it, being China's vassal may be preferable to being the US's vassal, given the violence of recent American history with regard to actual and potential vassals. But again, I don't know. Maybe I'm already China's vassal and don't know it!
"The way that can be gone is not the everlasting way;
The name that can be named is not the everlasting name."
"Those who know don't say; those who say don't know."
Or "a very tricky people" as Garry Trudeau's character Duke is made to say.
For further information, consult the _Book of Changes_.
What have the downsides been for Central European Countries that joined the EU or NATO? If they are vassals of the West, what were they under the Warsaw Pact? As for China, the liberties you enjoy are being stripped away for Hong Kong as we write.
...
Hey JV two thumbs down on your comments
Hey Jen, thanks for keeping it real.
We could start by not supporting the murderous Saudi war in Yemen. And Biden could stop starving children in Afghanistan.
Then after we stop being complicit in mass murder we could start looking at other atrocities committed by others and figure out which ones we could help stop at the least risk of making things worse.
The war in Yemen is a tragedy for the people of Yemen. It also appears to be a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran. I am not sure the US has that much influence over both sides to really do anything. As for Afghanistan, yes Biden could provide aid to Afghan instant. I suspect if a tenth of the money stolen during the Afghan war was recovered, there would be no humanitarian crisis. We could have rebuilt Vietnam. Empires suck. Such is the power of people's war. If you really care about hunger in Afghanistan - write you Senator and Congressperson. I am not being glib. If you want to pressure policy that is one of the only effective ways left to the citizenry of our country. It is odd that the Ukraine has held off Russia for a month and the Ghani regime in Afghanistan folded in a week to guys on mopeds with RPGs.
That’s true about writing to Congress, though it says something really bad about us that Yemen has been going on for seven years.
But the Saudis couldn’t fight this war without our help. Before Ukraine people would say there were reasons why we had to keep the Saudis happy. How can it be that we can’t get our own supposed ally which depends on our arms to cease blockading and bombing Yemen? The answer is that the US government doesn’t care that much— keeping the Saudis happy is a higher priority for three successive Administrations.
The humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan has actually been made much worse by Biden. Ezra Klein had a good piece on this a month ago.
And yes, it does show how worthless our nation building efforts were when the government collapsed almost instantly.
So there is a paradox here. I would take the Spanish civil war analogies more seriously if we really showed by our own actions that we won’t tolerate war crimes committed by ourselves or our allies, but that isn’t the case. And people outside the West see this very clearly. I am not saying other countries are better than we are— just that our elites live in some fantasy world where they are always the good guys standing up to Hitler.
I agree with you. Kissinger should have been tried for his crimes in Southeast Asia. If he had been tried, maybe there would have been no Cheney, Runsfeld, Wolfowitz… Instead he is a revered statesman. Unfortunately every criminal goes to jail.
Ah, but you miss a point. The Saudis led by the murdering MBS buy guided missiles from Raytheon, Fighter planes from Lockheed Martin and gobs more, all with the U.S. government blessings.
Saudi aircraft totally don't need parts, and besides, you can get F-15 parts and maintenance at any airport! Saudi pilots don't need training, Saudi missiles don't need replenishing, Saudis don't need satellite recon or targeting information, they don't need Patriot missiles or assistance with their naval blockade, diplomatic cover or any number of other things that they get from the US.
Truly, these Saudis are wonderful. I guess there's nothing we can do....
Often when I mention the horrendous crimes of our beloved friends and allies, I am reflexively accused of "whataboutism" which they have been literally programmed to believe is a "classic Russian technique". They also believe that once they say that, it's the end of the argument and that I have been "exposed" as a "PTUIN apologist"
Mind control is now perfected science.
*Saudi just executed an astonishing eighty one people in just one day. No need to imagine the reaction had Putin done that.
**They chop the heads off women there for being "witches"
If nothing else, it demonstrates what outrageous hypocrites we are, feigning all sort of outrage when we ourselves are guilty of ten times worse.
Feral, I mean no disrespect but I don't understand "outrageous hypocrites". This is the debate taking place in the bible and all the other ancient myths and legends. It is the debate between moral rectitude and survival. It isn't hypocrisy at all but the power of belief. We are talking early hominid.
My go to philosopher in these times is Yuval Noah Harari. This is what he has studied his whole life.
With Sam Harris March 20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEbCzGIieik
"Ultimately, only two countries, Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, aided the combatants in Spain."
The Italians didn't intervene in the Spanish Civil War? Or Mexico? This is such a glaring oversight that I wonder how much you know about the war.
Ultimately only 2 countries mattered. The Italians and the Mexicans although ideologically aligned to one side or the other were too poor to have more than a minimal impact. Also, both Italy and Mexico were not western-style democracies at the time. As a matter of fact, I know quite a bit about the war. I lived in Spain in the 1970s, travelled somewhat extensively and met the parents of friends who we're on both sides of the war. Mexico and Italy were a side show.
Knows about the war. Invokes Orwell.
Clearly didn’t read Orwell’s fucking book about the war.
Dumbass cocksucking cunt.
Are you OK?
You must be new here.
Gee, Phisto, at a loss for words, huh?
Never ever am I fucking ever.
LOL. I can wait until the meds kicking.
You’re having a stroke.
You’re the blood clot.
So weak.
Excellent reply, Owen. Probably the best to date.
I attended the University of Barcelona 1969 - 70, and worked in Sitges and Logrono. Got to know many students that were fortunate to attend university and were glad the streets were safe. Ideologues are flashy, but who speaks for the farmer whose barn was burned repeatedly over the last eight years by the SBD? Zalinsky is surely scripted and knows this destruction brought on by US and EU hubris could have been avoided. War is hell, and Hell is full of politicians and apologists!
Well then, you are a Francoite, a Falangist. Yes, I understand now. The street were safe and boy was it cheap. I was there when Franco died and even many people who sided with the Nationalists in the Civil War were sick of 40 years of Francoism. They could look across to France and see how Spain had remained poor and neglected. I can understand from your perspective of Spain why Putin must seem as an attractive figure. He is also a law and order an, a man of devout faith. Zalinsky (sic) on the other hand is perhaps the most popular leader in the world today. He is in a bunker in Kyiv. Courage is not scripted. He knows what he is fighting for. The people of the Ukraine know what are fighting for. This war was not brought on by EU and US hubris. It is a colonial war to subjugate the people of one country by another. Some things are worth fighting and dying for.
yes, of course, and the Russian and Greek people in the Donbas and Mariupol wanted the years of fighting over -- and the Donbas as well as Crimea wanted out of the imposed restrictions on Russian language and schools. Unfortunately, for the elitists in Kiev, they poked the Bear too often. It is their war to fight. The U.S. has hurt that poor nation enough -- and yes, there were certain things (safety and access to schools, and (though censored and restricted often) that Franco's Spain offered. It's very dangerous on Las Ramblas now -- and rents are out of control. And with these insane EU sanctions, strikes will only get worse.
First Alex, Most of eastern Ukraine is Russian speaking. The so called suppression of the Russian language that the Russians described in 2014 it never came to pass. Russian -speaking Ukrainians are fighting against Russians today. Since 2014, Ukraine has sloughed off much of the lethargy of the old post Soviet oligarchies. The break away Republics in Donbass and the annexation of Crimea were a part of Putin's attempt to carve up Ukraine in chaos following the 20124 Maidan Uprising. He was stopped, then, mainly by volunteers. Had he succeeded he would have taken Odessa and Kharkiv. I know that there are sources information here that appear unbiased with respect to Ukraine. They that paint NATO as the aggressor against Russias. They cast the Maidan revolution in 2014 as a CIA coup and they paint the Ukrainian government as a nest of narrow radical nationalists, Neo-nazis even. This is a minority view. It is closely aligned with Kremlin thinking. Compared to Russia and Belarus, Ukraine became a model of openness and freedom since 2014. Pro Russian parties existed, there was a pro-Russian press. Millions of Europeans travelled widely there and they travelled freely and found the people for the most part welcoming. What Putin has brought is war and devastation. No matter how it ends, it will end badly for Russia. The US did not cause economic pain to Russia. Russian state assets have been looted for decades and the people left ignorant and impoverished. Russian elites have raised their thieving to a level unimaginable before to this. The Ukrainians did not provoke a bear. A bear sat on Ukraine 400 years ago. It was forced off several times since then. But the bear has old habits, it keeps on wanted to sit where it is no longer welcome. Now the bear is tasting the pain of its bad habits.
You were everywhere and you know everything.
Okay, sure.
I've been on earth awhile...and yes, I lived and travelled pretty much all over...still have to see New Zealand and Brazil...the Congo...but extensive reading is a great adventure!
I read. You?
Kopek is correct: this is a Russian fascist colonial war to subjugate a neighboring people. “Nazis” indeed—Democratic Ukraine has both a Jewish President and a Jewish Foreign Minister! There are lots of Moscow-boys around today.
I guess NATO expanding east was just some kind of clerical error.
There always are, Art. There aren't many, though. I suspect they all live in the same group home.
Apparently I'm sacrificing for the cause by paying $5/gallon of gas, heading towards food shortages, and 20%+ inflation, etc. Jesus, my Porsche already sank of the coast of Africa...I've been devastated. What more can a consumer sacrifice?
Are you saying my sacrifice is for naught? If so, then can i get my old prices backs and some food security until the War Pigs here and abroad get things sorted?
PS why won't Ukraine pledge to never be in NATO and EU??? Seems like a good idea absent a threat from Russia.
It is not about NATO. It is about Ukraine. Without Ukraine, Russia is a second rate country that imports technology in exchange for oil. It is Nigeria with nuclear weapons. With Ukraine, Russia is an empire. That is the point. Putin and Russian nationalist believe aUkraine and Ukrainians are a fiction. This is no secret. Putin wants to turn Ukrainians into ‘Little Russians’. He wants a world where no Ukraine exists. That is why the Ukrainians are fighting as valiantly as they are. Putin has displaced 10 million people, he has leveled cities, he has opened a pandora's box that will be hard to close. In 1994, Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal in exchange for security and sovereignty guarantees from Britain, the US and Russia. It was called the Budapest Accord. Russia broke that accord in 2014. Sorry about gas, here it is $6 per gallon. Drill baby drill.
It is about EU/NATO. Prior to 2014, the EU/NATO gets Yanukovych impeached because he suspends the EU association agreement and then Ukraine gets out of the commons agreement. Then Putin acts. If Russia is second rate w/o Ukraine, what is Germany without Russian gas (that still flows and is being paid for)?
To pretend this is some isolated Ukraine/Russia issue is silly, if it weren't about EU/NATO then why wasn't the rabble roused to this extent when Russia had similar engagements like with Chechen?
If you think that Germany cannot wean of Russian gas, you understand nothing of global economics. As for rabble, your tone suggests a superiority you do nor deserve. You sound like rabble.
You lack a grasp of Ukrainian History. Ukraine is in the process of nation building. For the last 300 years Ukrainian nationhood had been suppressed by Russians, Poles, Austro-Hungarians, Germans and Communists. Ukrainians have been coerced, imprisoned, exiled, deported and killed by foreign powers who coveted Ukrainian land but loathed the Ukrainian language, its culture, its people. If you think the people in Ukraine today are fighting for a pipeline or are just pawns in a bigger game, you must not know many Ukrainians. After centuries of Russian/Soviet domination they have tasted the promise of civil society, citizenship and the rights of man. As a vassal of Russia they and their children would remain serfs to who ever controls the army, the militia and the police. Until the 2014 Maidan, their hadn’t been an honest election in Ukraine. Elections were a card game between oligarchs. The end of that system terrified Putin and his cronies.
Thanks for telling the clusterfuck of europe over the past 300 years from Ukraine's perspective. Ukrainians have three choices, be a vassal of Russia, be independent, or be a vassal of the west. They seem to want the latter.
The place is corrupt, and is being used as a pawn in a proxy war, we're not buying your BS, sorry.
Yes, the West or The East. The mall and Cheesecake Factory or the gulag and barley soup. Vassal of the West, like Poland, The Czech Republic, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia? yeah, you betcha. Like Belarus? I don’t think so.
Have they started to get really fat yet? Can’t be like the U.S. til you got lots and lots of fat muthafuckas…
Hey guys. Einstein just arrived. He must be high though, he says his name is Gordon Freeman.
Did you miss the part where the fucking Communists through stabbing the POUM and anarchists in the back was more important than beating Franco? Because the revolution in Catalonia wasn’t going the “right way?”
Orwell was pretty clear on that shit. In fact, had he the chance to do it all over again he would’ve sided with anarchists. Look it up, if you don’t believe me.
You’re such a fucking piece of trash, Kopek. At least the shit birds in the video were kind enough to be brief.
You? I don’t know what you are. Probably a fucking liar, just the Communists, willing to do whatever it takes to see your way forward no matter how many people get killed in the process.
Eat shit and die.
Where did I writer that, Phisto? Put down the pipe and show me where. As for your bad mouthing, keep it down, your mom is over here entertaining us guys at the fire house.
It’s between the lines, jackass.
Meds still aren't working,huh?. Put a cold compress on your head, lie down and wait 20 minutes. If you're not better call 311.
I don't fault the Ukrainians for asking for help. We need to have a sober and realistic discussion of our country's actions. Crystal and the other neocons have low (but not entirely non existent) credibility. Matt has much higher credibility. Let the discussion continue without the ad hominem attacks.
I have been alarmed as of late by Matt's writings about Canada and his lack of understanding that Canada went Federalist rather than central planning. Blaming our federal government for its role as coordinators of sovereign entities told me what it means to live in a bubble. Even in Canada many if not most misunderstand that Quebec is sovereign. Alberta is sovereign. Ontario is sovereign. British Columbia is sovereign. We are a federation of sovereign territories that choose to be part of a confederation. Our Federal government is our international voice but the 10 dollar a day childcare was Ontario's choice not Canada's choice. Quebec had already guaranteed affordable universal daycare Canada could only offer Ontario the option or the $10 a day reasonable alternative. Canada is a democracy not a flawed democracy like the USA.
I suspect your problem is with perspective. The world is a different place outside of your walls.
Forty years ago I would have believed it fantasy that Canada would have more democracy and freedom and have a higher standard of living than the USA. Today Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have more freedom and democracy and a higher standard of living than the USA. The rhetoric has no relationship to the performance.
What exactly does America first really mean?
The US certainly needs to be sober about its actions. Unfortunately, recent US actions have not always been sober or self-interested. As for sources, no single source is ever completely right or wrong. A preponderance of balanced sources it what is require. Folding Matt in does no harm to anything, relying on Matt or his circle to the exclusion of other sources is indefensible. Ad hominem attacks begin when honest discussion ends. The failure to recognize events and evidence that exists outside of a narrow, ideological lens lead nowhere.
How is the weather in Langley today Krychek?
It appears you and I are reading from the same hymnal so if I may share my understanding.
This Mark Twain essay appeared about a century ago. It was never supposed to be printed. It is on the subject of moral courage
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_United_States_of_Lyncherdom
At what point does moral outrage warrant drawing a line in the sand.
For me Russia crossed the line long ago. My question is why wasn't Russia welcomed into our family of nations 60 years ago.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1870623763
Is your moral outrage stirred by the 500,000 that have been slaughtered in the last few years in the Ethiopian Civil war? I'm a whole helluva lot more outraged by this but again, what would we do? Oh, well, it's not in US interest, so never mind.
Of course I was morally outraged by Eritrea and equally by the Central African Republic. I thought Trump's Secretary of State Rex Tillerson belonged in The Hague not in Washington but nobody wanted to listen. Some of us grew up with Chomsky or if you were here in Montreal with Irving Layton.
Layton was born in Romania in 1912 and died in Montreal in 2006. He said these things out loud and Canada loved to hate Irving Layton. Layton spoke truth to power and Canada loved hating Irving whose best selling book of poetry was titled For My Brother Jesus.
I'm not sure what jailing the last Secretary of State or your musings on Chomsky and the other guy have to do with subject at hand but whatever.
You're talking your own moral outrage and hearing your own voices. This argument has been going on since some one celled organism thought another one celled organism had a better position in the blob.
You don't belong here if you can't understand what is going on. We don't share common epistemologies. We believe different things.
There was a genocide in the Central African Republic under the supervision of Exxon. If you followed Chomsky you would have known about American hegemony.
Moe, Thanks for attaching the Twain piece. Hands down he was one of the greatest writers the US produced. As to your second point, 60 years ago, the 1960s?, the Soviet Union was still run by a pretty zealous group of Stalinists. Even with the Khrushchev de-Stalinization, the USSR - and the West - continued to view each other as mortal enemies. That only started to change with Nixon and Brezhnev.
Sixty years ago Irving Layton was a regular on CBC Television. He was a poet and he used words like assassins use daggers. Layton did not shy away from the camera 60 years ago and his words 60 years later show us how little has changed.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1871986458
This stuff works, it always has. Hello, Merkel, an actual scientist sees one dead Syrian kid on a Beach and she changed her mind from few refugees to a million. Of course, the hundreds of thousands killed by OUR Jihaddi mercenaries means nothing. Sees Fukashima and shuts down All the German nukes so they can burn lignite, the most polluting coal. Irrational, Oh yeah but if it affects her with a doctorate in quantum chemistry, how does it affect us? Paleo emotional capacity, medieval institutions and god like technology; not a good recipe for survival especially when the world is run by the sociopaths.
That's exactly it. How could we possibly trust this administration and those that came before it to do the right thing when our leadership is corrupt down to its bone? And sociopath is the correct word.
These "Close the Sky" people make me nauseous. They have no idea that they are begging for World War 3. They have no concept of Mutually Assured Destruction. It's terrifying.
Don't you want somebody to hate? Don't you need somebody to hate? Wouldn't you love somebody to hate? You better find somebody to hate....
Clever.
Actually not so clever, but appropriate to the situation, which is stupid.
Let's start thermonuclear war - "for the children", and stuff.
FTC. But, it's not the kids' fault that they are always used as an excuse for lack of effort, at least here in the US of A. We adults sort of suck.
Sad as that may be it's not our place, especially after what we've gotten up to over there the last decade.
Whoa! Somebody's beating, stripping and raping that poor woman! Somebody ought to _do_ something! It's terrible! I would, but, as a man, and, with everything that men have gotten up to over the decades since the rise of political Feminism, it's really not my place. Won't someone whose moral record is spotless step forward and help?!?!?!?!
"Rally" sponsored by the CIA and their stooges, with Ukraine plunder for the American kleptocrats the ultimate goal.
Bill Kristol using the words, "WE fought . . ." So rich.