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Reggie VanderVeen's avatar

Totalitarianism soup de jour, in other words. Check. And that Marxist class warfare narrative dried up when the proletariat entered the cushy middle class in the 50s. The Viet Nam conflict and race relations served as perfect substitutes, one could easily argue. "To all the kids in Red China!"

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Mikehaymister's avatar

Please elaborate on how the Vietnam War and race relations presently substitute for the class struggle.

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Bull Hubbard's avatar

Allow me:

"The class struggle." How quaint.

Commies have been overtaken by neo-Marxist identitarians. Your Proletariat is now a Persecuted Minority--mostly black people, but also women, homosexuals and the so-called "transgendered" . . . the entire alphabet soup represented on the increasingly ornate identitarian flag

Marcuse and others saw that Western material abundance was pervasive and only going to improve, so those in need of "liberation" became the racial minority oppressed by an inchoate, all-pervasive "systemic racism" (see I. Kendi and R. DiAngelo for details) which cannot be totally eradicated but which must be ferreted out at all times, with racists who confess to their racism in struggle sessions compelled to undergo re-education.

I would say that the Vietnam War was at least begun by US diplomatic obligations to France, which alienated Ho Chi Minh. Johnson escalated what Kennedy wanted to withdraw from, for reasons that are debatable, but the war was arguably one of the last disasters of the Cold War and ushered in the neo-Marxist identitarian era spearheaded by neo-Marxist university intelligentsia.

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Reggie VanderVeen's avatar

Precisely. I should have been more vociferous in my persuasion attempts to call out Marxist behavior. Every example you gave (I mentioned two: Viet Nam and racism) are further proof that the proletariat class struggle lost its luster over the years (read: the working class likes capitalism more than Marxism).

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Bull Hubbard's avatar

Sure enough.

It just occurred to me that as manufactured identity conflicts are escalating, the standard of living is deteriorating, at least from what it was during our Golden Age (roughly 1945-1970).

Maybe we need a return to the good 'ol class struggle.

Nah!

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Reggie VanderVeen's avatar

The request is appreciated but not well-suited in a Substack back-and-forth, I'm afraid.

For the positioning of the proletariat as the original class struggle as an essential foundational element in Marxism, try:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2304/pfie.2004.2.3.4

https://libcom.org/article/marxism-and-revolutionary-struggle-proletariat

And for the segue from class struggle to racial struggle, try:

https://literatureessaysamples.com/relationship-between-institutionalized-racism-and-marxism-essay/

And the transition of Marxism from class struggle as a purposeful diversion into the Viet Nam conflict and racism substitutions, try (with citations for the conclusions drawn):

http://www.horowitzbiobooks.com/radical-son/

and:

https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2022/07-08/from-class-war-to-race-war/

and:

https://origins.osu.edu/article/karl-marx-karl-rove-class-warfare-american-politics?language_content_entity=en

I'd start with the Daniel Horowitz autobiography, Radical Son. It's much more entertaining and cuts to the chase. "Red diaper babies" who have transitioned are quite enlightening. Hope that helps amplify my assertion albeit slightly. Suffice it to say, the proletariat uprising in America never completely materialized because...well, capitalism, quite simply.

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Mikehaymister's avatar

Thanks, will check these sources out

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Sevender's avatar

ItтАЩs a,so worth spending time with James LindseyтАЩs YouTube channel.

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Reggie VanderVeen's avatar

There are disagreements on Marxism's original tenets being tied to the struggles of the proletariat to some degree but its pivot away from those tenets and into the usage of others--protesting the Viet Nam conflict and racism are just two examples--is generally accepted from what I've learned. It shouldn't be surprising that there are people who are committed to Marxism would try desperately to find a replacement for the proletariat class struggle that seem to have evaporated in the 1950s and beyond. The two examples that I provided are perfect pivot points for Marxists. The divisiveness that class struggles provide is the main thrust in pushing this particular ideology. What better substitutes than the two small examples that I gave are there? The answer that question might be beyond my talent stack. Who knows? Climate change? Election integrity? J6 insurrection fantasies? Marxism feeds on that kind of nonsense.

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