In actions featuring prominent politicians on both the left and the right, two starkly different world views came into relief on the 1/6 anniversary. TK Partners News2Share report
There may be diverging perspectives, but to me the most interesting question is the extent to which law enforcement, especially the FBI, was involved in January 6th. I know a lot of people will regard the notion as a conspiracy theory, but there is enough eyebrow raising (something Pelosi knows a little something about) evidence to warrant a more thorough inquiry. And by thorough, I mean an inquiry where the FBI is actually required to answer questions. I understand the argument that the FBI can't endanger its operatives during "ongoing operations" but I fear that excuse can also be used as a very convenient loophole to avoid accountability in instances of malfeasance.
For four years the democrats and deep state wanted to oust Trump from office, and attempted to do so with one lie after another. The press, including the so called left. were complicit in wanting him gone. January 6th was the ending that the democrats and deep state wanted and helped orchestrate. Not to mention it's quite difficult to carry out an insurrection with no weapons. I was always a registered democrat, and now they make me sick.
Hope so, but a few that I know that are democrats and voted for Clinton, which I didn't, became verbally abusive because it seems they felt my vote made her lose the election, kidding, but that's how they came across. I lost a cousin whom I never spoke to again. He died two years later from cancer. Recently I am now on speaking terms with my brother, and I lost a life long friend, but that one is okay. I don't get their pathological hatred for Trump, and hate those who don't share it. I don't get the invite of Dick Cheney to join the democrats for the January 6 festivities. See, nobody, not even a notorious war criminal is worse then Trump.
As a conservative I gotta say the Dick Cheney appearance was surreal. Of all the people in the world I ever thought the Dems would fete he would be about my last guess.
I wonder how many Americans even remember Bush/Cheney lying us into a war with Iraq, or their torture prisons, or Biden's ardent support for the Afghan and Iraq war, using his position as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to push those wars on his fellow democrats? If they do I guess they're saying we think Trump is even worse then this guy which also further legitimizes his daughter, securing her continued loyalty. Recently I read that the democratic base are now more supportive of the CIA, and FBI then republicans, and by significant margins. They are also very supportive of the main stream press that I think most on substack have totally given up on. All during the Trump years I thought the democrats came across as very authoritarian, no matter their claims of being supportive of all things liberal, which in my opinion often are dogmatic positions on issues. Well, they have secured Liz's loyalty, and who knows, somewhere down the road she might be nominated as VP serving Hilary during a presidential campaign. God forbid.
Cheney and Liz Cheney CAUSED 1/6. Hear me out: the reason there were no Nat'l Guard that day is that the Sgts at Arms on both sides didn't want "the appearance" of potential Trump military takeover. They both testified to that to Congress. The fired head of Capitol Police testified that he really wanted NG and asked for them, and they were approved by Trump/executive branch.
So why did the two Sgt at Arms feel that way? Because of the tone and tenor in "elite" DC that week. And one of the biggest drivers was the op-ed by "the 10 living former Secretaries of Defense", that Trump was a risk to perform a coup and that DoD officials should resist any orders by Trump towards a takeover. That fantastical idea was what drove these idjits to have insufficient security, and that op-ed was coordinated by both Cheneys.
TDS led the Dems to pick up a lot of trash along the way. The Bulwark crew, the Lincoln party scum, now the Cheneys. And now none of them are going to be able to scrape each other off of their shoes. I'll make the popcorn, plenty to share.
It shows me that the Establishment GOP have more in common with the Dems then they have with the rank and file conservatives. I remember how Duncan Hunter Sr. betrayed conservatives by using his power as a committee chairman to protect the Johnson Amendment regarding political activity by churches.
As a progressive that shit was disgusting for me too. It does warm my heart that even shithead conservatives are hating on Cheney's now, so I guess we have that.
That's when they passed the rubicon of absurdity!! The guy they wanted to try for war crimes, becomes their hero. I was wondering if those mushrooms I ate were really shitake mushrooms, or psilocybins.
If you see our government for the oligarchy that it is, and recognize those public figures who are part of this system, and those outside of it, then it starts to make much more sense when democrats rub shoulders with war criminal Cheney
I'm a Proud Democrat and January 6th was not the ending I wanted. Biden beating Trump in a landslide and a peaceful transition of power was what I wanted so I only got half.
Then I guess we're in the same boat, since Trump sure didn't get his peaceful transfer of power, what with all the rioting over his inauguration and all. Try not to memory hole that.
In New York, nine people were arrested for disorderly conduct, according to the New York Police Department. Authorities said five people were arrested at a protest in Dallas, six in Chicago.
In Portland, Oregon, protesters were armed with clubs, sticks and throwing unknown liquid at officers, according to the Portland Police Department. Six people were arrested in Portland Friday, Portland Police Sgt. Pete Simpson tells CNN.
In Seattle, people threw bricks and other items at officers during a demonstration on the the University of Washington campus, city police said. Harborview Medical Center in Seattle confirmed it was treating a man who was shot at the protest and is in critical condition. Seattle police said a man turned himself in to campus police and was being questioned.
This is disinformation, also known as lies. There was no riot in Portland on Friday, Jan 7, 2022 - there was a peaceful vigil calling for renewal of Voting Rights. Pete Simpson did not speak to CNN on this day. You are jumbling events from different dates to build your ridiculous narrative. This is the kind of foolishness that distorted the Virginia Governor's election - inaccurate reporting and dissembling.
In addition to that rioting, other things to compare to Jan 6 include the taking of the Wisconsin State Capitol in 2010, the occupation of Congressional office buildings during Kavanaugh hearings and the assault on the Supreme Court building during Kavanaugh's approval. This is a two-way problem, people being lied to, misled, and ginned up on either side leads to trouble. Sometimes a set of protesters has more muscle and sometimes the security preparations are worse.
Leesburg & Down, can you please name the specific things—values, legislation, positions—that make you a Proud Democrat? I’m sincerely curious, because most of my friends and family are also proud dems, and they have become increasingly estranged, not because I’m a Trump supporter, but because my own personal politics are still the common liberal Democratic Party principles of the 1960s and 70s—anti-war, pro-working class, staunch defense of civil liberties, equality for all. So I’m becoming estranged from proud dem friends and family because I am now considered too far to their left. Hence, my question: what are the fundamental principles of a Proud Democrat these days?
Democrats are primarily social liberals also called progressives. These American liberals are the college educated professionals who comprise 25%-33% of the electorate. During the change from the liberal Democrats’ efforts: civil rights, voting rights, desegregation of schools and fair housing to the conservative Republican withdrawal of social and public services for the program of order and crime control, identity politics emerged. Identity politics is essentially a criticism of white men by blacks, POC and women for their privileges, white supremacy and economic inequality.
The push back from the right takes the form of maintaining restrictions on healthcare and medical insurance, voter suppression and gerrymandering, unlimited spending on election campaigns and mass incarceration which includes the too frequent shooting of unarmed citizens. It is as if literacy tests for voting rights were still in effect, that is, the ability to read the elector's names! One prominent way conservatives maintain opinion control over identity politics has been to implement curriculum in schools and universities across the nation which distort the historical past, namely the denial of historical facts, patriarchy and institutional racism, structural racism and racist behaviors most prominently understood as police brutality!
Most liberal Democrats favor universal health care - a single-payer system. They also favor diplomacy over military action, that is, negotiating with the communists and terrorists instead of merely fighting with them! They are opposed to both War on Drugs and the War on Terror. Other platform issues are:
same sex marriage
abortion rights - restrictions imply blacks have themes abortions!
stem cell research
stricter gun control
environmental protection laws which trump gutted
cultural pluralism or acceptance of immigrants - US 1.2 Legal immigrants per year
oppose increased military spending - this budget has no limit
oppose mixing church and state
tough corporate regulations
affordable education for college
equal pay and increased wages - increasing the minimum wage
defending social safety-net programs - legal aid to mitigate mass incarceration
collective bargaining or pro-union electoral reform including campaign finance reform against economic inequality
Are you opposed to these two aspects of the Georgia voting law that passed last year:
1) require all polling places that have an hour or longer wait to split into two polling places
2) require at least one voting machine for each 250 voters to limit the length of lines
I found those to be fair provisions earnestly targeting limiting voting lines and allowing access. That they weren't ever described in counterpoint to some provisions found objectionable by critics, to me, was suggestive of less than balanced coverage of the law, once I actually read it.
You could be to their left or to their right, but what you are actually describing is a different axis altogether of libertarian vs authoritarian. You sound like you trend libertarian.
Libertarianism is anarchistic individualism whereas authoritarianism is patriarchal and law and order. Liberalism balances the individual-social and state-societal polarities. It is a matter of decision and policy.
It is easy for me to see Pierce as as precocious teenager who is extremely lonely and angry. I suspect Pierce sees us as mirrors and does not like what he looks like. We all go through periods of self loathing it is part of the journey.
In the 1960s Hannah Arendt wrote about the banality of evil and her classical text is the 1951 The Origin of Totalitarianism.
Needless to say she was not well received by America's "intelligentsia" of the right or the left.
I am not a fan of labeling people in general. Trying to reduce philosophies and ideologies down to two axes is obviously not optimal, but it is an improvement over a single axis.
"Social sciences" though, could almost be considered a cult a this point, and I would be highly skeptical that any current consensus from that crowd approaches "truth"
I agree. The January 6 commission can deep-dive into FBI and other law-enforcement actions and inactions as soon as it finishes subpoenaing and deposing all the ringleaders, politicians, and participants. I would even hire a special prosecutor to continue that work if the House changes hands next January---it is critical that we understand how this happen, who is responsible, who did and did not do their jobs, who in Congress helped the rioters, why the Capitol Police administration failed its officers so miserably as to constitution (in my opinion) felony dereliction of duty, who specifically barred the National Guard from doing its job until it was too late, and who was at the riot and vote-stop planning meetings at the Willard Hotel.
All of it. I want all of it on the record, FBI testimony, videos, everything.
The committee by design had only one purpose: to get Trump, and attack the GOP. If they truly were interested in a full investigation the committee would be bipartisan in accordance with House rules. But Pelosi wasn't interested in exploring anything inconvenient to her narrative.
Oh, stop it. The congressmen offered to the committee were two of the dumbest and most repellent creatures the Republicans had to offer. They weren't interested in doing the work, only in gumming up the works. Pelosi correctly barred them because the job of the January 6 Committee was and is too important to allow that kind of incompetence on board.
If the committee's "one purpose" is to "get Trump," well, he certainly made their job easy-peasy through all his bullshit, didn't he?
This is a Pontius Pilate moment. There are very few truths in politics, particularly gutter politics, which is what we seem to have a lot of in this country — in my view most of it now comes from the Herbert Marcuse wing of the Uniparty, but that’s just an opinion and I readily observe it hasn’t always been that way. I’m not tribal.
Words are inherently and naturally ambiguous. In “Interpretation of Dreams” Freud wrote “words are the nodal points of numerous ideas and are therefore predestined to ambiguity.” Statements even in depositions have double or triple meanings that depend on nuance that differ in minds shaped by preconceptions and emotional biases.
There is no “truth” about Jan. 6. Even ‘facts’ are elusive since they often depend on testimony and recollection which can be dishonest, honestly incorrect, incomplete and misleading. There are no “facts” — other than what is on video. And that becomes raw material for Roshomonic collisions of narrative interpretation. The more one flails in a search for truth the more one gets tangled in binding webs of subjective ideological and political disagreements which become emotional in proportion to their sincerity, each believing in the justice of its side and its interpretation of statements.
And it gets worse! (Believe it or not.LOL) — the committees and investigators seek motive, which is a state of mind and almost undefineable. People themselves often don’t even know why they do things. Groups of people have less volition and less command of their actions; that’s a well known aspect of crowd psychology.
“Trump was trying to foment an insurrection!” Really. Are we mind readers? And even if we were, what would we see? A kaleidescope stream of consciousness like a swollen river churning with flood water? And the breachers of the capitol? What was their motive? Let’s peer deeply into the human soul for that one. I would resurrect Shakespeare for that, since none of us are capable and “psychologists” and “psychiatrists” I would almost trust the least, since they have no working model of psyche (Jung is my favorite, I’d defer to him honestly).
Let’s understand where we are in all this. Based on some of the statements in the video here, we’re already past a point of reconcileability, we’re at a point of conflicting world views that nothing can bridge, except one thing: A willingness to look at the “other side” and see a version of yourself with a shared sense of what justice and ethics are. I don’t see that as even possible in this environment.
After all the committees and investigations and depositions and statements you’ll end up with something, but “truth” or “justice” won’t be it. I doubt you’ll even have facts. You’ll have more narratives upon which the sides disagree. Achieving those former things requires a shared common purpose and right now that’s absent.
But I suppose the act of trying is all we’ve got . . . So hopefully the process itself will produce the kind of evolution of consciousness and slow grind toward mutual conciliation that are all that can stop the ugly national tailspin we are in from worsening in tightening downward spirals into 3rd world hell. Maybe the evidence will embarrass people into a form of ethical sobriety and existential gravitas they now lack, I would say almost completely. This nation once put a man on the moon. That nation is long gone. And all that’s left are children with power.
Damn it craazyman. Your not supposed to read minds. Especially the minds of foreign crazies like myself. It all looks like 16th century Bathetic farce to me.
What come next is the pickpockets come in and rob the sleeping patrons.
You poor thing. Sit down and have a glass of water. I don't think the evidence will embarrass anyone. It will implicate many. Seditious treason? Found guilty, we chop their fuckin' heads off, per the Constitution. What's the problem?
Thank you aunt martha. I share craazyman's understanding but I am glad someone also shares my understanding that this is a continuation of 1640 not 1860.
Off with their heads is a quick easy solution.
As the late great anti Christian Catholic Vince Lombardi once said "Winning isn't everything . It is the only thing."
We need touchdown Jesus and we need him now. Biblical Jesus was such a wuss.
Who needs foxes when there are real witches to hunt?
Who can forget that the first time battle broke out in the first English Civil War there was enough blood to wash away countless sins.
If you are English and not of the elite classes the English Civil War was the bloodiest War in English History. I cannot think of another moment in time where the fight over power had all the same elements. Charles I had no interest in governing and Cromwell lusted for power. Charles lost his head Cromwell crushed parliament and England enjoyed a bloodbath of historic proportions.
Cromwell was a Puritan Zealot but his Secretary John Milton called himself a liberal Puritan. Milton was one of the founders of English Unitarianism. Milton's Paradise Lost asked the question whether it is better to serve in Heaven or Rule in Hell.
America's answer in 2022 scares the Bejeezus out of us.
We can always draw parallels with historical periods since history offers centuries of conflict and western history traces out the arc of values and ideas that produced the present. One period I think instructive is ca 500 AD Constantinople under Emperor Justinian and his immediate predecessor Anastasius, in which Gibbon in DECLINE AND FALL OF ROMAN EMPIRE describes how the culture divided itself into “color factions” the blues and the greens — [sound familiar!]— “this popular frenzy was inflamed by religious zeal; and the greens, who had treacherously concealed stones and daggers under baskets of fruit, massacred, at a solemn festival, three thousand of their blue adversaries. 44 From this capital, the pestilence was diffused into the provinces and cities of the East, and the sportive distinction of two colors produced two strong and irreconcilable factions, which shook the foundations of a feeble government. 45 The popular dissensions, founded on the most serious interest, or holy pretence, have scarcely equalled the obstinacy of this wanton discord, which invaded the peace of families, divided friends and brothers, and tempted the female sex, though seldom seen in the circus, to espouse the inclinations of their lovers, or to contradict the wishes of their husbands. Every law, either human or divine, was trampled under foot, and as long as the party was successful, its deluded followers appeared careless of private distress or public calamity. The license, without the freedom, of democracy, was revived at Antioch and Constantinople, and the support of a faction became necessary to every candidate for civil or ecclesiastical honors.”
No social media in those days. As the great British journalist Charles McKay said in EXTRAORDINARY POPULAR DELUSIONS AND THE MADNESS OF CROWDS, “It will be seen that people think in heards, they go mad in heards, but they recover their senses slowly and one by one.”
If I might go back a little bit further to Athens 595 BC and a civilization in collapse. Athens was run by its bankers and Athens best and brightest were indentured servants. They called in the poet, philosopher statesman Solon to save the city.
Solon cancelled debt and Athens again entered a golden age.
One fact is that some people broke into and entered the Capitol Building shouting 'Hang Pence!' But, you think Marcuse was a uniform!! Motive refers to purpose or goal which was to intervene upon the vote count. It is obvious and you are fatuous and disingenuous.
If one thinks this is all theatre and the inmates have taken over the asylum's I have nothing to offer but my empathy. In 1964 Reagan gave his Time for Choosing Speech.
You can listen to it today. Reagan told America to reject democracy. Reagan spoke to the masses in their language.
If your in-laws are over a hundred that would make you an old man. I believe you to be at most 18. I see your responses and like all science my theory is always open to new discovery. I see no evidence that you are anything but a lonely, brilliant and angry juvenile.
It is 25 below and I don't need to go anywhere. I don't watch television. I am trying to learn how to write. I spend my time waiting for gardening season and my wife and I have driven millions of miles and we no longer wish to fill up every week.
It wasn't that your in laws were victims of terrorists but that you claimed in-laws that told me you and truth were not on the same side.
Yes let’s also thoroughly investigate the cause: the rigged and fraudulent 2020 election. J6 is a coverup so those actions will never be investigated. We must have open, honest elections. We don’t.
The election was NOT stolen after the fact/ on Election Day. If any shenanigans occurred, they were before, when States unilaterally changed the rules for mail in voting ostensibly due to Covid, and engaged in unchecked ballot harvesting at their leisure. The Trump DoJ refused to nip this in the bud and it likely bit them in the ass.
The National Post is a Murdoch clone paper in English Canada and that branch of "conservatism" (oligarchy) is on life support after electing the three stooges of Canadian politics, Kenney, Ford and Moe.
Ford the right wing populist who can't tell a crazy priest from a sane expert, Kenney a Texas stooge with the mind of Rick Perry and Moe of Saskatchewan whose comic timing is turning Saskatchewan's silk purse into dog chews.
"Rigged and fraudulent 2020 election." No, it wasn't. If Democrats had rigged it as you claim, Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Republican poison pills would have been tossed from the Senate. And Gaetz, Boebert, Cawthorn, and Greene would be sweeping floors at a gas station instead of acting the fools in the House.
Did you claim that the elections were rigged in 2016, when Trump won? Or only in 2020, when he lost?
Since 2000 the drumbeat of illegitimate elections has been getting louder every 4 years. Without judging the merit of those claims the damage to our ‘democracy’ is open for all to see. What would a unity election look like at this juncture? Is there a non-partisan will to save the republic? Not yet as far as I can see.
Again, you are dissembling and misinforming. the flipping of the vote overnight occurred in 2016 when voters were purged especially in rust belt states. But, the threatening behaviors of republicans on Election Day, voter suppression by gerrymandering, and voter purging will get you nowhere.
So the litmus test of of being concerned about “rigged elections” is now whether or not a person supported Trump? Do you recall the election rigging by the DNC in the 2016 and 2020 Democratic primaries that eliminated Bernie Sanders?
See Mollie Hemingway book “Rigged” nice factual exposition of some of the problems with the “election”. Vast increase in mail in ballots. Precipitous decrease in signature verification. Counting stopped in five states with big cities with long history of corruption. We have ignored voter integrity and fraud prevention for far to long
Indeed the. FBI did it’s best to hurt the Trump campaign with the beginnings of the Russian hoax. Thanks for reminding me
Wrong, the mail in ballots are even more secure than walk-in since there are several checks on the voter from residence to signature - you have to sign the mail-in ballot! No longer can provisional ballots from voters whose polling place was shut down or improperly miscommunicated to the voter be jettisoned.
It's been investigated time and time and time again. Every time, you lose. Again.
Every recount/audit in every state, Joe Biden wins again and most of the time, he gets more votes than the original tally. This has happened in Arizona, Michigan, Georgia and Pennsylvania to name a few states.
You lost. It's time to move on with your life. Better luck next time.
Keep drinking that Koolaid. It wasn't proven because it can't be proved. Most of the fraud was in the mail ballots. Some places they basically eliminated signature verification. And others once the outer signed envelope is separated from the ballot inside there is no way to determine whether the ballot was legally cast. Democrat activists did everything they could to make it possible for fraudulent ballots to be cast.
Talk about Kool-Aid. If "it wasn't proven because it can't be proved," then you cannot claim there was fraud in the mail ballots, or that there were any fraudulent ballots cast.
If Democrats rigged the election like so many of you falsely claim, then why is McConnell still in the Senate, and Gaetz, Boebert, Greene, and Cawthorn in the House instead of asking "you want fries with that?"
You've been skull-fucked one too many times by the Newsmax editorial board. As if "Democrat activists did everything they could to make it possible for fraudulent ballots to be cast," isn't the most idiotic sentence one could write or utter.
I moved from IL to WI in 1 June 2020 (the date our house closed in IL). Both my husband and I got mail in ballot forms sent to us from IL, first with the USPS's yellow sticker with our new address and THEN from IL with our correct WI address. What the hell?
You made this up, how can you mail-in your vote without registering to mail-in vote and providing a signature? If there was no check by residence and signature, then you and your buddies could just fill in ballots and stuff the box. You don't know how it works.
Many states, including my own California, simply sent out mail ballots without any request from the voter. Not made up. And many states, overburdened by the extraordinary number of mail ballots, relaxed or ignored signature verification procedures, in many instances in contravention of the election laws in those states. In addition many states relaxed, or eliminated, rules against ballot harvesting. None of this is news.
I don't have a strong position either way (I didn't vote) but I will say this. Doing recounts is meaningless once you realize you're simply counting votes. Not auditing the process. It's like counting cash in the bank after it was robbed. You get the same result over and over but the missing cash is still gone.
They don't even have to go that far - why did the House and Senate Sgts at Arms deny the Capitol Police request for more resources? They just both sailed off into retirement without a single goddamn question. Really? Because you should have handled that a lot better and should be taking a lot of heat for the failures that day.
Naturally I know why they weren't put to the screws, they worked under Pelosi.
They did answer questions and they said why. I discussed elsewhere in these comments. As far as taking heat, they did in the sense that they were fired, but the Dems and media don't want to put the blame there so for now at least, it won't go there.
Never mind how DC was boarded up at the end of October in anticipation of the wrath a Trump victory would bring to the streets. That was only going to be mostly peaceful protesting.
They have no interest in that deep dive. Pelosi herself refused extra assistance for the capital police prior to the event didn't she not? They had warnings that things would get heated and they took zero precautions. Looks more like they wanted the event so they it could be used for political theater. After all who has it helped the most?
Here’s what I find astonishing and unacceptable …Pelosi disallowed Republicans Jim Jordan and Jim(?) Banks to remain on this Investigative Committee… but Matt Kinziger and Liz “ don’t worry Daddy” Cheney are pathetic in their faux patriotism and dedication to finding” the truth” and preserving Democracy … my ass, that’s not what they’re really concerned about….
Adam Kinzinger is so destroyed he's not running again. Part of that could be the gerrymandering in IL and shifting of his district which would likely make him a big loser.
About that fire extinguisher? Let me educate you. How about instead of Greg Greenwald, we look at the judge who sentenced Robert Palmer.
A judge on sentenced Capitol rioter Robert Palmer to 63 months in federal prison for assaulting police with a FIRE EXTINGUISHER and a wooden plank during the Capitol attack on January 6.
It's on tape and he admitted to it in court. You have nothing.
The media portrayed officer sicknick as having been beaten to death by a fire extinguisher and never adequately corrected that narrative. By mentioning the fire extinguisher offhand you are appear to be employing that misinformation to bolster your arguments here.
"Assault" can mean many things. I'd interested to find out if Robert Palmer caused any serious injury or death with his actions. Care to cite your source?
Happy to cite my sources: Fox News, NY Post, ABC, NBC, CBS, Newsweek, Business Insider, Washington Post, New York Times, etc.
It's all over the news as Robert Palmer received the stiffest sentence yet and as someone who assaulted police officers, he deserves to suffer.
Before his sentencing hearing in Federal District Court in Washington, Mr. Palmer, 54, wrote a letter to Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, saying that he had come to recognize that Mr. Trump and his allies had lied to their supporters by “spitting out the false narrative about a stolen election and how it was ‘our duty’ to stand up to tyranny.”
At the hearing, Mr. Palmer became emotional describing how he had watched a television news segment about himself while in jail and was “absolutely devastated” to see the “coldness and calculation” with which he had attacked the police. He told Judge Chutkan he was “really, really ashamed” of his behavior that day and said he would never attend a political rally again.
There were over 150 police officers injured and I can't tell you if he caused serious injury. I doubt he caused death because if he did, he's be doing a lot more than 5 years.
Why are you so obsessed with this one person? Is it because you're embarrassed by the actions of the 700+ Trump supporters who were arrested? One person versus 700+ people. That's a big difference.
No, I had never heard of this person until four days ago. I’m not a Trump supporter. I’m a supporter of free and fair elections. George Carlin had it right… see what happened when someone tried to infiltrate their private “ we have this sewn up for decades” club ? And yes, I do believe DC is corrupt as hell across PAC,lobby filled K Street, legislative, judicial and executive branches… so, I dismiss all petty , partisan comments like yours.
Let's do some numbers. The MSM claims over a hundred thousand right? What's 700 as a percentage of 100k after painstaking review of thousands of hours of video with facial recognition software and social media social justice warriors?
That's right: 0.7 percent. If you pull over 100 drivers randomly, guess what percentage have some kind of record, misdemeanor, violent encounter in the past? What percentage are drunks, criminals, habitual offenders. I'll let you folks google away. Or perhaps Duck Duck Go.
My finding...19 million (out of say 330 million) have felony convictions of some kind. Many more have misdemeanors. Enough already with the insurrection. The average American crowd is teeming with convicted felons. Doesn't matter if it's Jan 6 or the "summer of love" It's all in the PR spin, baby. Shockingly, nothing was set on fire and the only discharge of a weapon was a capitol police officer shooting a civilian.
Have a go and see if you can answer it. When there are questions about federal involvement, and there is a person who was clearly heavily involved but hasn't been arrested despite 700+ other people being arrested, why do you think that person might be particularly interesting? Do you genuinely not see an answer that doesn't involve perjoratives?
1. There should be voter ID as a basic voter security measure.
2. It must be free and easy to get.
3. There must be a paper audit trail to verify votes.
4. Techniques that could compromise the secret ballot (including some kinds of ballot harvesting) should be prohibited.
5. Voting in person in a limited period should be the default, absent unusual circumstances.
6. The authorities must commit sufficient resources to avoid long voting lines.
How hard can this be, for Pete's sake? Regardless of what you think of the 2020 election, we should take measures so that there can be ready verification, a quick tally of the vote so that the winner is announced the same day, and reasonable convenience combined with security,
Yes, of course, let's give the kids, welfare queens, and other unemployed outsized influence by letting people spend unlimited time and energy politicking, but no money whatseover. Surely those are the sorts of people who will make the best decisions for America!
I'm talking about the funding given to select locales to supplement the govt funding for the actual mechanics of the election - ballots, precincts, counting, etc. It was covered in Time just about a year ago re: the Center for Technology and Civic Life.
Agreed. Some states did very nicely. Five stopped counting and sent people home then started counting again. All in precincts with a solid history of voter fraud
How about mandatory time off to vote and advance polls for several days. Even Canada can do that much. Remote voting by whatever means is fraut with opportunity for fraud.
Voting in person at a polling place is the LEAST you could do as a citizen. A physical paper ballot is the only REAL way to exercise your franchise with scrutineers from all partys observing and Keeping the process honest. The mandatory time off does not have to be paid; your government does a lot for you and to you; surely you can put a little effort in. Several days of advance polls and yes, mail in ballots for the disabled and people out of the country. You should be registered by the state with a public list of electors. It's not rocket science, small third world countries manage. The current US system would never stand up to unbiased scrutiny. You really can do better!
Actually I have, they're not uncommon where I'm from. Normal I vote in an advance poll at my convenience. Everyone can always do better unless they're hidebound and locked in status quo.
Because i like to vote in person on election day. Anything can happen. My city had some drop off ballot boxes set on fire. We seem to have a lot of post-geriatric candidates of late. And i can get seriously grumpy if candidates become magically disappeared from the ballot after voting had already started.
It shouldn't take a whole day to vote, but we've seen long lines at the polls in way too many precincts on TV for decades now.
Voting by Mail would be OK with me until DeJoy started heading the USPS. Why Biden hasn't fired him yet is just beyond understanding -- unless one considered that Biden is as senile as many claim.
In my state you just request a ballot. Of course you have to be a registered voter and your signature has to match. You can also track your ballot, and make sure it's be tabulated.
Do you mind saying which states do this without requiring you validating you’ll be out of your district,above a certain age or disabled? As someone else mentioned, it is the least we can do to vote in person, both paper and machines, considering the benefits we receive that are paid by the all citizens - such as natural disasters & infrastructure if nothing else. Mail in votes used to not be counted in certain situations - did you know that? If there was a clear huge majority win that the number of absentee ballots could not change after the fact (such as APO/FPO Military abroad ) they were just secured. Electoral state policy is so manually labor intensive it is subject to crazy shite like this. Can we believe signature checks done by volunteers are done any better than the hanging chads? I’m not saying mail in is wrong because certainly electronic voting is just as susceptible (ironically) to human error
I live in Nebraska, anyone can request a mail-in ballot. I vote by mail because I can readily research all the candidates and ballot initiatives before voting. Also, I've been stuck trying to vote in a blizzard before. All in all, mail-in works for me, especially now that you can track your ballot.
"Quick tally of the vote" There is no excuse with available voting measures that all ballots should not be in the hands of the voting authorities and ready to be counted AT THE TIME THE POLLS CLOSE. No ballot should be accepted after that time. Total BS that votes are trickling in and "discovered" after the polls close. And if you can't figure out how to accomplish your vote by then, that is on you. You are just irresponsible, and we shouldn't care what your opinion is. If election authorities are "discovering" boxes of ballots later, they are incompetent or corrupt and need to be dealt with.
I understand where you are coming from. I want to be able to delay mailing in my ballot as late as possible and/or to have a convenient place to drop it off. We should definitely have a firm deadline.
Perhaps we should not let the networks start predicting winners. It seems to me that is one of the major factors in reports of votes "trickling in" or new ballot boxed just found. We've gotten used to knowing the winner before we go to bed on election night, mere moments after the CA polls close. This is ridiculous since each partisan "news" outlet can make whatever claim it wants based on what ever evidence it wants, but if their evidence doesn't hold up, people will have already been predisposed to believe the initially reported results.
No results should be reported until some period of time after the polls close, maybe as long as a week?
It talks about the procedures in place for Nicaragua to hold their elections. First, everyone has an ID card. The USA has so many different systems for proving one's ID, why not a voter ID that is free and available to everyone. Maybe you can go to the post office to get it. (The "how" is negotiable. The "what" isn't -- an ID. The "who" isn't -- everyone with a SSN) Each ballot has a standardized QR code which a "secret" insert from the local election board. They had several other protections that I don't recall, but the impartial international observers proclaimed those elections free and fair -- as opposed to the US and OAS accusations of wide-spread fraud. If you listen to a few "Moderate Rebels" podcasts or read any of the Grayzone articles you'll recognize that it is the USA that is lying. (Just as they did about 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Honduras, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and on and on and on...)
Then secondary databases like the Kris Kobach's Crosscheck should be made illegal. It exposes personal information and is totally flawed. Again, American's are under total surveillance now, perhaps we should figure out how to control it better than we do.
Each central office that counts the votes needs to have procedures for auditing the receipt of ballot boxes. When I was doing the precinct elections in CA, they seemed somewhat lax, but they were easily understood.
There are, of course, huge holes in what I've suggested here and that's the problem. We each seem to get bogged down in certain details of the process and fail to see the big picture.
I have little faith in the "Voting Rights" laws Biden is pushing. I'm sure it is hardly impartial. But then, so are the Republican proposals.
Over the years I have been involved in elections in different ways: as a local candidate, poll watcher, ass't A.G., voter since 1972.
Nobody should have to stand in line for hours to vote. There is no excuse for not enough voting machines in polling places. So much money is "spent" by the government. Buy more machines; pay election workers more. Not quantum mechanics.
If I thought declaring Election Day a national holiday would get people to honor it more I would be all in. That is just an excuse and another lame justification for "voting rights" legislation to address "voter suppression."
Yesterday there was reporting that 40 "youth activists" commenced a hunger strike in Washington, demanding that Congress pass "voting rights" legislation. A leader of the group was quoted, " . . . (W)e've spoken to young people (from various states) who have been forced to jump through hoops to exercise their right to vote." Voting hoops. How unfair.
In 1972 I turned 18. That was the year 18-year olds got the right to vote. The fact that my age group was getting shipped to Viet Nam was the impetus for the change. I have never missed voting in an election, because it is of value to me. It is not difficult and at this point in our history, accessible to everyone.
I don't care if we move election day, but maybe keeping it on the same historic date will help people remember to vote. On the other hand, here in Illinois we moved up the date of the primary election (to February as I recall) when Obama was running for President. Wanted to give the favorite son a leg up in delegates. I had no problem with that; even voted for him. Since then, Illinois has moved its primary to (traditional) March, and now to June. Seems like the Democrats may be suppressing the vote -- confusing us by taking the primary on the road so much. But it's OK. We mail everybody with a driver license a reminder to request their absentee ballot. Don't worry about the date of the election. We are here to help you vote your ballot.
To your point about media calling the election, who cares? I care more about whether it is true that election officials stopped tabulating votes for the night (Arizona?) for some reason. If ballots aren't leaking in or out of the election authorities, predicting a winner would be like a weather forecast to some extent.
Finally, is it correct that this proposed "voting rights" legislation includes a mechanism for congressional candidates to receive taxpayer funding? If so, that is reason enough for it to go down in flames.
I don't know what #4 means. I know what I think you maybe think it means, but I see holes.
Same with #5
7. Standardized voting machines across the entire nation based on open-sourced hardware and software.
8. Election day is a holiday. No one is denied the right to vote because the boss won't let him.
9. A non-partisan commission (like a jury pool) is given oversight of the ballot counting.
I was listening to a "Moderate Rebels" podcast of the voting process in Nicaragua which I recall was out last November. They have QR codes identifying each ballot. They also have a local election commission that has a separate secret process that only they know to keep higher ups from polluting their count. (I didn't quite understand this). There is NO CHARGE to get a voter ID and everybody gets one.
Biden's push for his voting legislation is just to ensure Democrats win. I have no faith that it will bring about free and fair elections. I feel the same way about Republican efforts.
MOST IMPORTANT: somehow encourage third parties. Ranked-Choice voting appears to be one option.
Yeah, here in my state, with it's mail in voting, there is zero checking to see if a ballot request comes from a US citizen and voter rolls aren't purged.
Also get out the vote jerks send unsolicited requests in your name for absentee ballots -which you are only supposed to use if you are absent ffs. I had to sign an affidavit when I voted in person. And that was just for a REQUEST for an AB
When you execute an estate probate, banks or the IRS AUTOMATICALLY notifies social security of the death. Bank accounts are frozen. If you move, and send the USPO a change of address, every corporation that wants your new business sends you crap. Why can’t they automatically send the death or intent to move to a county or state voting agency? Wtf
After watching the peaceful protests of 2020, the Capitol rioters looked like amateurs. Let's face it. This was a pathetic attempt at rioting. None of them were armed with frozen water bottles or fireworks. You have to know that many have guns at home but they didn't bring them. Everyone was easily identifiable with distinct clothing and few masks.
No one set fire to a single dumpster. Not even one! No one was tagging anything. Some were even taking selfies with the Capitol Police! Hello!!? ACAB anyone? Most of them just wandered into the Capitol like it was no big deal. Everyone knows that it is smash and burn time once you get into the building. If they were even remotely organized, they could have set fire to the whole place! They didn't even have a bail fund established. Amateurs!
When I watch a riot, I have certain expectations. Minimum standards of deviance need to be adhered to. It only lasted for 3-4 hours. I expect a riot to persist for at least a week. There are some cats in Portland and Seattle that could teach them a thing or two. I really hope that they think about that next time. I'm definitely not watching the next one unless they get their shit together.
It is a very easy thing to be used to stand for something or someone you want to think is good when behind the scenes it/he/she isn't good even though you thought it was. Everyday people are often part of the floor show orchestrated by others and haven't a clue because their sincerity about their cause blinds them to what is the goal of the ones pulling the strings.
In the eyes of the media/corporate/big tech complex, one world view is clearly more equal than the other. When a government turns on say, more than 40% of its own people with a constant drumbeat of false narratives, it can't be pretty, no matter where you are on the political spectrum.
Matt Goetz and Marjorie Taylor-the GOP has the worst admin in history dropped into their electoral laps and the best they can promote is an accused sex trafficker and Alex Jones in a skirt?!?!
The news was leaked so that self righteous retards like Stx can spread the lies, so no point explaining it to him/her. I am progressive and don't care about Gaetz, but the dirty trick to destroy him is obvious.
When many criticized Grant to Lincoln’s face he said, “at least he fights”. They fight, good for them. BTW you are a sex trafficker. Now you are an “accused” sex trafficker. See how easy that is??
I think you're on to something. Now have the FBI lose the 302 and the Justice Dept attorney forge some paperwork and you too can go to jail unless you please guilty.
In case any of you still misinformation-ally think that anything nefarious happened last January 6th regarding the FBI, the Financial Times is here to set your mind at ease.
"Psy-ops are a crucial weapon in the war against disinformation"
So you see if the Feds were inciting violence it was for the protesters own good.
Maybe the FBI saw that the protesters were overweight & they knew the physical exertion of storming the Bastille would help the crowd burn off some calories.
Maybe the FBI just wanted the protesters to have nice patriotic backgrounds for their selfies since, in the end, that seemed to be the major reason they stormed the Bastille in the 1st place.
Maybe the Feds saw the crowds aimlessly wandering around & were just trying to empower their sightseeing trip with a visit to the Capitol.
In the end we're still left with a mystery. But I'm almost 10% sure it isn't a nefarious mystery.
I mean, it's not like the FBI has a long and storied history inciting violence among dissident groups.
Hey wasn't that the show that resurrected itself around a pandemic?
Did you ever see the X-Files theory that said they were really mind controlled government assassins tasked with cleaning up the government's genetic experiments?
Bull and shit. MAGAs invaded and attacked the Capitol that day, some in pitiful insurrectional hopes of stopping Congress from certifying Biden as President, others because they liked hurting people and breaking things. Donald Trump committed felony-level dereliction of duty in refusing to stop them. All other versions are a damn lie.
Ashli Babbitt? I'm sorry she's dead. That's not snark, I wish nobody had died or been bloodied that day, including her, and including all the cops with permanent injuries from the mob. But when you willingly join a riot, invade the Capitol, and move to the very front of the battle line, don't be surprised when your life becomes Omaha Beach on D-Day.
That said, absolutely, release the videos. Every pixel. The videos of the Trump Rally, the march, Trump watching the riot on television with glee and instant replays, the invasion of the Capitol, the destruction and injuries within and without, all of it. Release every foot. I will be happy to watch it all, because it will further prove what we already know:
This was a Red Hat Riot whose goal was to stop the vote count.
Two things could be true out once: (1) misconduct by rioters, and (2) misconduct by federal law enforcement. I want reliable and thorough information to sort this out.
I agree this is not either/or and my money is on both. You don’t have to think storming the Capitol was “okay” to also believe there may have been instigation. Sort of like you may think we need to improve voting security, without believing that only the democrats cheat.
Off your meds- this doesn’t even sound like you did your subscription get hijacked? No seriously I always respect your point of view and I always take my meds
I want reliable and thorough information, too, Skeptic. But why are people so eager to believe that MAGAs couldn't possibly riot unless the FBI made them?
Even if the FBI had agents in the crowd--as they damn well should have--how do a hundred of them make 25,000 people do anything? By all means, see what the FBI role, if any, was. But no matter what federal agents did, that does not make January 6 any less an insurrection and riot.
That mob was in place because Donald Trump put them there; the FBI certainly didn't invite them. January 6 is on the mob and their president, nobody else.
I remember COINTELPRO, the Chicago Police Red Squad, the FBI files, and the other government secret squirrels who infiltrated any groups they considered "subversive" even if those groups were not. Their actions were illegal and shameful, and whatever versions they're doing as I write this--I'm quite sure they are--remain so.
But, I won't let MAGAs claim they wouldn't have rioted and invaded the Capitol unless they'd been "forced" by "undercover FBI agents." MAGAs tore into the Capitol because they wanted to, because their cult leader urged them on with his "be tough, be strong, fight, fight, fight" rhetoric, and because the Oathkeeper goon squad planted inside the mob lit the fuse.
I'm happy to slap the FBI for its illegal and unconstitutional acts. But January 6 is not one of them--that is on Trump, his Oathkeepers, and his Red Hats.
Slightly more verbose in its construction, “fiery but mostly peaceful protests” made its debut on mainstream media well before “misconduct by rioters”.
Why? You planning on mounting your own investigation? Conducting competing trials?The United States Department of Justice counsels patience. Recent smoke signals emanating from the chimneys at 950 Pennsylvania Ave. indicate a coming spectacle that will make Watergate look like a slow day in small claims court.
If you're responding to me, it's because I want to watch all the videos. I prefer to study original, not edited, work to better understand how things happened.
I'm happy to wait for the House and DOJ to do their work. But patience has its limits: January. If the House changes hands at the midterms, Republicans will take a wrecking ball to this investigation and scatter its committee members to the lousiest subcommittees Congress has to offer.
Videos of what? You're taking your cues from the idiots in this comment section, who, in very predictable fashion, immediately start deflecting with absurd conspiracy theories of FBI involvement. That is no longer the story, indeed, it was never the story. Do you or anybody else here attempt to gather information outside of these threads?
Garland and the DOJ have been methodically working on this for more than a year. Seriously, do you not read the news? The riot at the capitol is pretext. At this point the action at the capitol looks to be merely ancillary to THE biggest political criminal conspiracy in this nation's history.
And christ, Garland's not going to wait until after the Nov. elections. Beginning in March the big show commences. But don't take my word for it. Exercise a little patience and then sit back and enjoy the show.
--Don't get snotty with me. I take cues from no one but myself, and I read more news than you could handle in any given day.
--I already addressed the "FBI conspiracy theory" meme: I don't care if a hundred undercover FBI agents talked shit to the crowd. Nobody forced those people to riot and invade, they did it on their own dime.
--"Videos of what?" The thousand or more hours of rally and riot videos that the government says it has in its possession but has yet to release to the public. I want to see those videos, and have every right as a citizen to do so. That is part and parcel of "gathering information outside these threads," so you should be a fan. Garland can wait until he's done analyzing them for legal purposes, but then I want them on the Internet. Not because they will prove "government conspiracy," but just the opposite: there was no "government conspiracy" on January 6 other than what Trump and his pals cooked up.
--What makes you think March is the magic month? These kinds of investigations can take years, and if the House and/or Senate change hands at midterms, that job becomes a thousand times harder. I hope you're right and heads begin to roll in eight weeks, but I won't hold my breath.
Don't hold your breath and don't take my word for anything. But I will reiterate: the focus and the locus of the investigation now has absolutely zero to do with the riot itself. The spotlight is on who planned it, who carried out the various treasonous and felonious acts, and who ultimately were the leaders who planned a coup of the U.S. government. Garland is casting a large and wide net because there are lots of big fish to haul in. Some very bad fish. But don't take my word for it.
How about the FBI answer questions pertaining to their involvement in the riot? I trust you are familiar with the recent hearings where the FBI refused to answer any questions pertaining to the number of FBI agents that were there during the riot, involved in inciting the crowd, and also animating the violence. Questions from sitting US senators no less.
So if some time down the line when the relevant documents are declassified (assuming that will occur in future), and we do find out that there was indeed an integral and decisive FBI presence, will you be sympathetic to "other versions" of the riot?
If there was no FBI involvement (a big 'if' considering all the current FBI obfuscation and opaqueness and its sordid history), then yes we can chalk up the violence (nowhere near an insurrection or a coup) to the many polarized and propagandized rioters. But this was no threat to 'democracy'. The Gilens and Page academic paper pretty much pulls the rug under the notion that any remaining democratic governance exists here in the US.
January 6 was a triple play: insurrection, riot, and protest all at the same time. The trick in responding to it is sorting the wheat from the chaff; pulverizing the wheat; but letting the chaff float away.
By that, I believe the mob was composed of four distinct elements: insurrectionist rioters; rioters; trespassers; and legitimate protestors. Where FBI agents do or don't fall into categories I have no idea.
Insurrectionist rioters were a minority; maybe one or two hundred in the entire mob. (That's only a guess by me.) But they were the most dangerous because they actively tried to stop the election count; they beat people bloody and broke things badly; and they would have detained or murdered Pence, Pelosi, or any other legislators they deemed The Enemy if they'd gotten the chance. Thanks to a couple hundred Capitol Police officers (and the Secret Service spiriting Pence away fast) they didn't get close enough.
Non-insurrectionist rioters caused most of the physical damage. The ones who hurt cops and other people need prison time, but not tons. The ones who destroyed property but didn't hurt people can spend a short time behind bars and pay a fine. The same punishment, I might add, as rioters in the Summer of Floyd SHOULD have gotten but didn't thanks to the weakness of too many local and state governments.
Trespassers? Those who walked into the building but didn't break things or hurt people? Give 'em a fine and let 'em go.
Legitimate protestors who were loud and yelly and waved signs and marched around but otherwise stayed outside? Send them a letter of thanks for participating in our democracy.
Of course January 6 was a threat to democracy. It was a direct attack on our election system. It wasn't a serious threat because the MAGAs were not serious people, but the intention of their invasion was as serious as a heart attack: "stop the steal" was attempted insurrection, period.
It depends what you mean by "integral and decisive." I fully expected that the FBI would have undercover agents in the crowd--that's the job. But even if every agent there shit-talked "hey, gang, let's riot and insurrect," that does not absolve a single rioter and insurrectionist from their crimes. They're adults, they knew what they were doing was wrong and highly illegal, and they did it anyway.
If FBI agents actively encouraged the riot--something I don't yet grant, but am willing to see examined--that is a separate issue for which they and their bosses can and should be held accountable.
But the riot and invasion? That's on the MAGAs and Trump, not on the feds, not on anybody but them.
"Should be held accountable" agreed. Can? Not in our current reality and really not since the inception of the FBI. See also my reply above to your now-deleted comment
I deleted it because I rewrote it, above. Your answer might have disappeared with it, sorry. Sadly, we rarely hold anyone in power accountable for anything until decades have passed. They still haven't declassified the JFK files!
If there was FBI or other agency instigation, then there will be no accountability, most will remain unaware of it, and you likely won't have the opportunity to become sympathetic to this view.
Invaded. Mmm. Strong word. You mean like Omaha Beach invaded? Or you mean how I "invade" my refrigerator after a 10 mile run. You lost me right at the start.
But, I persisted and we have common ground on the release of video. Let's see what really happened. I think there is plenty to satisfy "both" sides that it was an "invasion" cough cough. Or a "peaceful protest" - all depends on which video you splice together. Amirite? LOL.
Invaded is a strong word, but there was a riot, there were trespassers, and there were a few bent on violence. This is not unique, to demonstrations or to DC. The real difference was this was Trump supporters doing the rioting for once. And during a session of Congress. Now, how that qualitatively differs from attacks on the White House in 2020 while the President was there and conducting the business of government is for others to concoct.
The failure to prosecute 2020 is as wrong as any failure to prosecute January 6, or for that matter, the riots during the Summer of Floyd. Rioting, looting, and attacks with deadly weapons should not be politically controversial; government should have ended those vicious acts with any level of force necessary.
To stand by for hours or days while a riot injures and kills people and destroys property is, to me, felony-grade dereliction of duty that should be prosecuted just like the rioters will be. President Trump was derelict in that duty on January 6, and so were the mayors, city councils, and governors of the various cities and states in the Summer of Floyd. They all did nothing as congressmen fled for their lives, fires raged, looters reveled, and blocks of city streets were turned into CHAZ zones that barred city officials from entering.
"Invaded" doesn't begin to cover the grossness of our year of bloodshed, riots, and dereliction of duty, but it's the best I got.
And may the same apply to the many members of the permanent bureaucracy, those in elected offices, or in the intelligence communities active in the "resistance".
A strong word, "invade." But it's the right one for when a mob invades the United States Capitol, commits violent mayhem and hundreds of felonies, and puts the Vice President of the United States and hundreds of congressmen in danger of death or great bodily harm. I'm not sure why that's controversial to you.
We know "what really happened" from the video that's been released. I want the rest released to cut off the air supply of conspiracy theorists who are shocked, shocked at the notion that 20,000 people could riot and invade a building without being forced to do so by "the deep state."
"Amirite?" Yes, you are. January 6 was five events rolled into one: peaceful protest; trespassing; rioting; assault with deadly weapons; and attempted insurrection. Plus a sixth: felony-level dereliction of duty by the President of the United States and his team for their utter failure to shut down the riot with all necessary force, and in failing to do so putting the Vice President and every member of Congress in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm.
My analysis is neither liberal nor conservative, Biden nor Trump. It's a fair analysis of what happened that day. Sorry you got lost on the way to the fridge; I feel your pain on that :-)
Our democracy is not as fragile as they (D's and MSM) would like to scare us into thinking. By pushing the "this was an insurrection" narrative, the Democrats give our enemies a propaganda win. That being said, J6 was a shameful and embarrassing event and true to their roots, the D's will not let a "crisis" go to waste. But they will beat this dead horse too far and it will backfire.
To be fair, R's and D's never let a crisis go to waste. Mitch McConnell is a master of that dark art, too. We are government by the shameful, for the most part.
It was an embarrassment and lost opportunity. Angry and shouting Joe works for about 20% of the had left, the rest are turned off by it. It went so well that it is actually hurting him in the polls. Did you see the latest Quinnipiac? Latino's are turning on him because they actually believe in election integrity and voter id, as do most Americans. Meanwhile Biden and Harris are pretending that it is still Selma 1964 and she was asked to sit at the back of the bus. By the way, since when has the Secret Service started to allow the President and Vice President to travel in the same airplane? I thought that was always a no no. Not anymore I guess.
The two that come to mind would be China and Russia who can use this as a propaganda victory to minimize their horrible state sponsored actions. To call this a coup or insurrection, based on what we have seen around the world is a joke and affront to those countries that have actually experienced these. By no definition of the federal statute was this either, which is why we have not seen charges filed. There were no weapons caches, no "state" support and no shots fired. Not a single MOC or politician was touched. Of course we can play the, "well if they had their chance game." To play that would to require us to say, "had security been tighter at the capitol, this would have never materialized." Meanwhile in Kazakhstan....
I don't disagree with anything you write here, because it reflects my own view: it was a riot, insurrection, and protest all wrapped up in one, but at the same time stupid, ineffective, and absolutely pointless. As such, it was a fair reflection of Donald Trump: a lot of sound and fury ultimately signifying nothing.
But if the "powers that be" and Democrats are making too much of January 6--and they do, that's politics--the right wing makes too little. RW congressmen who claimed it was "normal tourists visiting the Capitol" should be booted by their own voters next election for not having the brains God gave a turnip. Ditto anyone who claims Trump had nothing to do with any of it. Of course he did, and you explained his role perfectly:
"Trump was doing the shitty thing he always does.... playing a game, rolling the disruption dice and seeing what would happen. All with just enough plausible deniability to back away when needed."
How would I feel about your mythical congressman? I'd say he or she was right on a few categories and wrong on the rest:
--Yes, it was an undisciplined mob.
--Yes, some committed vandalism.
What he or she left out:
--Hundreds committed mere trespass.
--Thousands committed assault, battery, mob action, and assault with deadly weapons.
--An unknown number committed insurrection. They failed because they weren't very good at it, but failure to rob a bank doesn't spare you bank robbery charges. Same with insurrection: you try it, you're guilty.
--The rest were protestors, there legally and Constitutionally, and they should be publicly praised acting lawfully.
Yes, "the persons without the brains that God gave a turnip are the ones who accept uncritically whatever their chosen "side" tells them to think." Which is why I've always parsed the varying levels of guilt and innocence of January 6: I find turnips sour and untasty.
Would only your mythical congressman bother to do that.
I'm a liberal, non-Woke variety. I prefer to see the entire scope of facts, no matter whose "side" they support, and make my conclusions from that. It's exactly why, like you, I enjoy the Substackers so much: in my case, Taibbi, Greenwald, Weiss, Charlie Pierce at Esquire, and Heather Cox Richardson.
The wing nuts are screwing normal Americans from both ends.
You’re far from alone. I think the woketards suck worse , and the middle has been cast aside by focused, financed vocal minorities who call anyone who even dares to disagree an omnophobist. Yep just a made up word. Like rehabilitated. ( Props to Shawshank. )
Stay tuned bucko. You're getting ahead of yourself. Lots of action to come. And as the Duke used to warn: "Careful with what you say--or you'll be eatin' them words."
I don’t buy the false flag arguments or that the FBI was setting it up. They may have been encouraging some misdeeds but the riot was its own thing. However, I think Matt is spot on that Trump was not acting like someone attempting a coup. Trump believed he’d been cheated and so did many of his followers. And the Dems sure acted guilty and don’t seem to care how obvious they are about it. Just look at that Time Magazine article about “fortifying” the election. They are practically bragging about how they cheated and they know the media will cover for them.
Questions the plot against Whitmer and the obvious involvement of the FBI.
Some things i really don't get. As much as i loathed George Bush, never did i ever think he had anything to do with planning 9/11. I can't imagine why the FBI would be involved with plan a kidnapping of Whitmer. Wtf would be the intended end game here? Ditto 1/6, if the FBI was involved. Trump lost, and yeah, a lot of people contested it. So let's go for the total overkill? I happen to believe Biden won it as legitimately as any of our elections can be (like i think Trump won '16.) But if Dems wanted to plant a doubt in my mind, FBI involvement in / planning of 1/6 would be the way to do it.
If there's supposedly going to be some sort of civil war (presumably between Rs and Ds), where does that leave the large percentage of the electorate who don't have a team and are disgusted by both parties?
Ever read the history of the Black Army in the Russian Civil War? They opposed both the Reds and the Whites, but ultimately decided an alliance with the Reds was their best choice. Trotsky wiped them out after they had served their purpose.
Seen the sad demise of the LibDems in the UK? They chose the Tories, even though Labour felt entitled to their cooperation. They didn't choose poorly in that sense, it wouldn't have ended well if they went with Labour either. There was no real choice except to remain untethered to both.
I say if it comes to that, those of us disgusted by both parties form our own bloc and let the other two parties kill each other off.
We are long overdue for a full-on new party system in this country; the waltzing corpses of Democrats and Republicans have nothing to offer anyone outside of them (and precious little to those inside).
Well, now you're dreaming of what the Founders hoped for - but failed to do themselves. Faction is pretty much inevitable in any scale of human organization.
I increasingly suspect that the January 6th riot at the Capitol was a set up designed to do exactly what it did; the rioters making fools of themselves, humiliating their movement, getting arrested, having Trump impeached and spawning a “domestic terrorism” law - that will ultimately be used primarily against the left. This trap was a fabulous success, accomplishing all those goals. Qui bono?
I suspect 90% of the US was just embarrassed by the spectacle and would prefer to leave it as the pathetic spectacle it was with normals on the left saying "glad that wasn't us!" and those on right going "ouch! we are going to own this for awhile."
With JFK redux a la Oliver Stone back in the news (and on Showtime) one wonders..."how long will this footage be hidden/censored from investigators and the public?" The truth is in the footage. Thousands of demonstrators (tens or hundreds of thousands?) walked to the capitol. How many were involved in "violence?" Who were they? What did the Capitol police do? Note the footage of police armed and in riot gear with semi-auto weapons standing by in the hallways as A. Babbitt was shot and killed. Were the demonstrators "mostly peaceful" like in the summer of 2020? None of these questions are being answered because...
All we are getting is highly politicized chin music from elected officials. So far, the courts have not charged anyone with "insurrection" but I guess we will "find out more" as time goes on. Will this be like the mysteriously missing FBI 302 from the General Flynn indictment? Years of stonewalling, misdirection etc. yet critical documents are suddenly "unavailable" Wonder who has control of the "missing" footage.
The main stream media could throw some light on the looting and violence in cities where Americans were shot and beaten and threatened and had there position stolen. I listened to WBBM after one of the Chicagos looting and they said it was Facebook orchestrated. Where is the continued reporting on that. Who was prosecuted for those crimes, they had weapons the people o January 6th didn’t.
There may be diverging perspectives, but to me the most interesting question is the extent to which law enforcement, especially the FBI, was involved in January 6th. I know a lot of people will regard the notion as a conspiracy theory, but there is enough eyebrow raising (something Pelosi knows a little something about) evidence to warrant a more thorough inquiry. And by thorough, I mean an inquiry where the FBI is actually required to answer questions. I understand the argument that the FBI can't endanger its operatives during "ongoing operations" but I fear that excuse can also be used as a very convenient loophole to avoid accountability in instances of malfeasance.
For four years the democrats and deep state wanted to oust Trump from office, and attempted to do so with one lie after another. The press, including the so called left. were complicit in wanting him gone. January 6th was the ending that the democrats and deep state wanted and helped orchestrate. Not to mention it's quite difficult to carry out an insurrection with no weapons. I was always a registered democrat, and now they make me sick.
I think lots of democrats feel that way
Hope so, but a few that I know that are democrats and voted for Clinton, which I didn't, became verbally abusive because it seems they felt my vote made her lose the election, kidding, but that's how they came across. I lost a cousin whom I never spoke to again. He died two years later from cancer. Recently I am now on speaking terms with my brother, and I lost a life long friend, but that one is okay. I don't get their pathological hatred for Trump, and hate those who don't share it. I don't get the invite of Dick Cheney to join the democrats for the January 6 festivities. See, nobody, not even a notorious war criminal is worse then Trump.
As a conservative I gotta say the Dick Cheney appearance was surreal. Of all the people in the world I ever thought the Dems would fete he would be about my last guess.
I wonder how many Americans even remember Bush/Cheney lying us into a war with Iraq, or their torture prisons, or Biden's ardent support for the Afghan and Iraq war, using his position as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to push those wars on his fellow democrats? If they do I guess they're saying we think Trump is even worse then this guy which also further legitimizes his daughter, securing her continued loyalty. Recently I read that the democratic base are now more supportive of the CIA, and FBI then republicans, and by significant margins. They are also very supportive of the main stream press that I think most on substack have totally given up on. All during the Trump years I thought the democrats came across as very authoritarian, no matter their claims of being supportive of all things liberal, which in my opinion often are dogmatic positions on issues. Well, they have secured Liz's loyalty, and who knows, somewhere down the road she might be nominated as VP serving Hilary during a presidential campaign. God forbid.
Cheney and Liz Cheney CAUSED 1/6. Hear me out: the reason there were no Nat'l Guard that day is that the Sgts at Arms on both sides didn't want "the appearance" of potential Trump military takeover. They both testified to that to Congress. The fired head of Capitol Police testified that he really wanted NG and asked for them, and they were approved by Trump/executive branch.
So why did the two Sgt at Arms feel that way? Because of the tone and tenor in "elite" DC that week. And one of the biggest drivers was the op-ed by "the 10 living former Secretaries of Defense", that Trump was a risk to perform a coup and that DoD officials should resist any orders by Trump towards a takeover. That fantastical idea was what drove these idjits to have insufficient security, and that op-ed was coordinated by both Cheneys.
Why is the evidence for the Democrat's alleged authoritarianism? Aren't you in fact flipping the script?
Americans suffer from Mass Formation Amnesia. That's the precursor to Mass Formation Psychosis.
TDS led the Dems to pick up a lot of trash along the way. The Bulwark crew, the Lincoln party scum, now the Cheneys. And now none of them are going to be able to scrape each other off of their shoes. I'll make the popcorn, plenty to share.
It shows me that the Establishment GOP have more in common with the Dems then they have with the rank and file conservatives. I remember how Duncan Hunter Sr. betrayed conservatives by using his power as a committee chairman to protect the Johnson Amendment regarding political activity by churches.
As a progressive that shit was disgusting for me too. It does warm my heart that even shithead conservatives are hating on Cheney's now, so I guess we have that.
Maybe they aren't shitheads, many who consider themselves conservatives now were against the Iraq war
"even shithead conservatives"
You must be a ton of fun around other human beings
Using his daughter as a human shield see he did learn stuff in office
That's when they passed the rubicon of absurdity!! The guy they wanted to try for war crimes, becomes their hero. I was wondering if those mushrooms I ate were really shitake mushrooms, or psilocybins.
When you have new ends, new means justify them.
I always thought Greenwald nailed it in this piece: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/no-matter-the-liberal-metric-chosen
If you see our government for the oligarchy that it is, and recognize those public figures who are part of this system, and those outside of it, then it starts to make much more sense when democrats rub shoulders with war criminal Cheney
I'm a Proud Democrat and January 6th was not the ending I wanted. Biden beating Trump in a landslide and a peaceful transition of power was what I wanted so I only got half.
Then I guess we're in the same boat, since Trump sure didn't get his peaceful transfer of power, what with all the rioting over his inauguration and all. Try not to memory hole that.
Cut the 4th grade bullshit , dimwit.
Blow me.
What is the evidence motivating trump's objection to the election? Evidence!
Don’t let Leesburg bring you Down. It’s only castles burning.
Nobody's turning and nobody is coming around.
Sad but true
Good idea.
There was rioting over Trump's inauguration on January 20th, 2017? Where? I honestly don't remember that happening so I'm all ears.
I hope you are joking. https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/19/politics/trump-inauguration-protests-womens-march/index.html
I am actually a bit disappointed that you outed yourself so bad with this comment, we were having a bit of fun above
In New York, nine people were arrested for disorderly conduct, according to the New York Police Department. Authorities said five people were arrested at a protest in Dallas, six in Chicago.
In Portland, Oregon, protesters were armed with clubs, sticks and throwing unknown liquid at officers, according to the Portland Police Department. Six people were arrested in Portland Friday, Portland Police Sgt. Pete Simpson tells CNN.
In Seattle, people threw bricks and other items at officers during a demonstration on the the University of Washington campus, city police said. Harborview Medical Center in Seattle confirmed it was treating a man who was shot at the protest and is in critical condition. Seattle police said a man turned himself in to campus police and was being questioned.
This is disinformation, also known as lies. There was no riot in Portland on Friday, Jan 7, 2022 - there was a peaceful vigil calling for renewal of Voting Rights. Pete Simpson did not speak to CNN on this day. You are jumbling events from different dates to build your ridiculous narrative. This is the kind of foolishness that distorted the Virginia Governor's election - inaccurate reporting and dissembling.
WOW
In addition to that rioting, other things to compare to Jan 6 include the taking of the Wisconsin State Capitol in 2010, the occupation of Congressional office buildings during Kavanaugh hearings and the assault on the Supreme Court building during Kavanaugh's approval. This is a two-way problem, people being lied to, misled, and ginned up on either side leads to trouble. Sometimes a set of protesters has more muscle and sometimes the security preparations are worse.
Leesburg & Down, can you please name the specific things—values, legislation, positions—that make you a Proud Democrat? I’m sincerely curious, because most of my friends and family are also proud dems, and they have become increasingly estranged, not because I’m a Trump supporter, but because my own personal politics are still the common liberal Democratic Party principles of the 1960s and 70s—anti-war, pro-working class, staunch defense of civil liberties, equality for all. So I’m becoming estranged from proud dem friends and family because I am now considered too far to their left. Hence, my question: what are the fundamental principles of a Proud Democrat these days?
Democrats are primarily social liberals also called progressives. These American liberals are the college educated professionals who comprise 25%-33% of the electorate. During the change from the liberal Democrats’ efforts: civil rights, voting rights, desegregation of schools and fair housing to the conservative Republican withdrawal of social and public services for the program of order and crime control, identity politics emerged. Identity politics is essentially a criticism of white men by blacks, POC and women for their privileges, white supremacy and economic inequality.
The push back from the right takes the form of maintaining restrictions on healthcare and medical insurance, voter suppression and gerrymandering, unlimited spending on election campaigns and mass incarceration which includes the too frequent shooting of unarmed citizens. It is as if literacy tests for voting rights were still in effect, that is, the ability to read the elector's names! One prominent way conservatives maintain opinion control over identity politics has been to implement curriculum in schools and universities across the nation which distort the historical past, namely the denial of historical facts, patriarchy and institutional racism, structural racism and racist behaviors most prominently understood as police brutality!
Most liberal Democrats favor universal health care - a single-payer system. They also favor diplomacy over military action, that is, negotiating with the communists and terrorists instead of merely fighting with them! They are opposed to both War on Drugs and the War on Terror. Other platform issues are:
same sex marriage
abortion rights - restrictions imply blacks have themes abortions!
stem cell research
stricter gun control
environmental protection laws which trump gutted
cultural pluralism or acceptance of immigrants - US 1.2 Legal immigrants per year
oppose increased military spending - this budget has no limit
oppose mixing church and state
tough corporate regulations
affordable education for college
equal pay and increased wages - increasing the minimum wage
defending social safety-net programs - legal aid to mitigate mass incarceration
collective bargaining or pro-union electoral reform including campaign finance reform against economic inequality
Hahahahahahhahahaha.
Are you opposed to these two aspects of the Georgia voting law that passed last year:
1) require all polling places that have an hour or longer wait to split into two polling places
2) require at least one voting machine for each 250 voters to limit the length of lines
I found those to be fair provisions earnestly targeting limiting voting lines and allowing access. That they weren't ever described in counterpoint to some provisions found objectionable by critics, to me, was suggestive of less than balanced coverage of the law, once I actually read it.
e! Welcome back. I was surprised at how much I missed your strange vomits o' fuckoffery while you were gone.
You could be to their left or to their right, but what you are actually describing is a different axis altogether of libertarian vs authoritarian. You sound like you trend libertarian.
https://politicalcompass.org/
Libertarianism is anarchistic individualism whereas authoritarianism is patriarchal and law and order. Liberalism balances the individual-social and state-societal polarities. It is a matter of decision and policy.
It is easy for me to see Pierce as as precocious teenager who is extremely lonely and angry. I suspect Pierce sees us as mirrors and does not like what he looks like. We all go through periods of self loathing it is part of the journey.
In the 1960s Hannah Arendt wrote about the banality of evil and her classical text is the 1951 The Origin of Totalitarianism.
Needless to say she was not well received by America's "intelligentsia" of the right or the left.
As Plato once said everyone hates truth tellers.
I am not a fan of labeling people in general. Trying to reduce philosophies and ideologies down to two axes is obviously not optimal, but it is an improvement over a single axis.
"Social sciences" though, could almost be considered a cult a this point, and I would be highly skeptical that any current consensus from that crowd approaches "truth"
Well said.
What is the evidence?
I agree. The January 6 commission can deep-dive into FBI and other law-enforcement actions and inactions as soon as it finishes subpoenaing and deposing all the ringleaders, politicians, and participants. I would even hire a special prosecutor to continue that work if the House changes hands next January---it is critical that we understand how this happen, who is responsible, who did and did not do their jobs, who in Congress helped the rioters, why the Capitol Police administration failed its officers so miserably as to constitution (in my opinion) felony dereliction of duty, who specifically barred the National Guard from doing its job until it was too late, and who was at the riot and vote-stop planning meetings at the Willard Hotel.
All of it. I want all of it on the record, FBI testimony, videos, everything.
The committee by design had only one purpose: to get Trump, and attack the GOP. If they truly were interested in a full investigation the committee would be bipartisan in accordance with House rules. But Pelosi wasn't interested in exploring anything inconvenient to her narrative.
Stop the lying bullshit. Propaganda.
Oh, stop it. The congressmen offered to the committee were two of the dumbest and most repellent creatures the Republicans had to offer. They weren't interested in doing the work, only in gumming up the works. Pelosi correctly barred them because the job of the January 6 Committee was and is too important to allow that kind of incompetence on board.
If the committee's "one purpose" is to "get Trump," well, he certainly made their job easy-peasy through all his bullshit, didn't he?
This is a Pontius Pilate moment. There are very few truths in politics, particularly gutter politics, which is what we seem to have a lot of in this country — in my view most of it now comes from the Herbert Marcuse wing of the Uniparty, but that’s just an opinion and I readily observe it hasn’t always been that way. I’m not tribal.
Words are inherently and naturally ambiguous. In “Interpretation of Dreams” Freud wrote “words are the nodal points of numerous ideas and are therefore predestined to ambiguity.” Statements even in depositions have double or triple meanings that depend on nuance that differ in minds shaped by preconceptions and emotional biases.
There is no “truth” about Jan. 6. Even ‘facts’ are elusive since they often depend on testimony and recollection which can be dishonest, honestly incorrect, incomplete and misleading. There are no “facts” — other than what is on video. And that becomes raw material for Roshomonic collisions of narrative interpretation. The more one flails in a search for truth the more one gets tangled in binding webs of subjective ideological and political disagreements which become emotional in proportion to their sincerity, each believing in the justice of its side and its interpretation of statements.
And it gets worse! (Believe it or not.LOL) — the committees and investigators seek motive, which is a state of mind and almost undefineable. People themselves often don’t even know why they do things. Groups of people have less volition and less command of their actions; that’s a well known aspect of crowd psychology.
“Trump was trying to foment an insurrection!” Really. Are we mind readers? And even if we were, what would we see? A kaleidescope stream of consciousness like a swollen river churning with flood water? And the breachers of the capitol? What was their motive? Let’s peer deeply into the human soul for that one. I would resurrect Shakespeare for that, since none of us are capable and “psychologists” and “psychiatrists” I would almost trust the least, since they have no working model of psyche (Jung is my favorite, I’d defer to him honestly).
Let’s understand where we are in all this. Based on some of the statements in the video here, we’re already past a point of reconcileability, we’re at a point of conflicting world views that nothing can bridge, except one thing: A willingness to look at the “other side” and see a version of yourself with a shared sense of what justice and ethics are. I don’t see that as even possible in this environment.
After all the committees and investigations and depositions and statements you’ll end up with something, but “truth” or “justice” won’t be it. I doubt you’ll even have facts. You’ll have more narratives upon which the sides disagree. Achieving those former things requires a shared common purpose and right now that’s absent.
But I suppose the act of trying is all we’ve got . . . So hopefully the process itself will produce the kind of evolution of consciousness and slow grind toward mutual conciliation that are all that can stop the ugly national tailspin we are in from worsening in tightening downward spirals into 3rd world hell. Maybe the evidence will embarrass people into a form of ethical sobriety and existential gravitas they now lack, I would say almost completely. This nation once put a man on the moon. That nation is long gone. And all that’s left are children with power.
Dude...
"...all that's left are children with power." I have long thought this. Thank you for articulating it.
Damn it craazyman. Your not supposed to read minds. Especially the minds of foreign crazies like myself. It all looks like 16th century Bathetic farce to me.
What come next is the pickpockets come in and rob the sleeping patrons.
You poor thing. Sit down and have a glass of water. I don't think the evidence will embarrass anyone. It will implicate many. Seditious treason? Found guilty, we chop their fuckin' heads off, per the Constitution. What's the problem?
Thank you aunt martha. I share craazyman's understanding but I am glad someone also shares my understanding that this is a continuation of 1640 not 1860.
Off with their heads is a quick easy solution.
As the late great anti Christian Catholic Vince Lombardi once said "Winning isn't everything . It is the only thing."
We need touchdown Jesus and we need him now. Biblical Jesus was such a wuss.
Who needs foxes when there are real witches to hunt?
Who can forget that the first time battle broke out in the first English Civil War there was enough blood to wash away countless sins.
If you are English and not of the elite classes the English Civil War was the bloodiest War in English History. I cannot think of another moment in time where the fight over power had all the same elements. Charles I had no interest in governing and Cromwell lusted for power. Charles lost his head Cromwell crushed parliament and England enjoyed a bloodbath of historic proportions.
Cromwell was a Puritan Zealot but his Secretary John Milton called himself a liberal Puritan. Milton was one of the founders of English Unitarianism. Milton's Paradise Lost asked the question whether it is better to serve in Heaven or Rule in Hell.
America's answer in 2022 scares the Bejeezus out of us.
We can always draw parallels with historical periods since history offers centuries of conflict and western history traces out the arc of values and ideas that produced the present. One period I think instructive is ca 500 AD Constantinople under Emperor Justinian and his immediate predecessor Anastasius, in which Gibbon in DECLINE AND FALL OF ROMAN EMPIRE describes how the culture divided itself into “color factions” the blues and the greens — [sound familiar!]— “this popular frenzy was inflamed by religious zeal; and the greens, who had treacherously concealed stones and daggers under baskets of fruit, massacred, at a solemn festival, three thousand of their blue adversaries. 44 From this capital, the pestilence was diffused into the provinces and cities of the East, and the sportive distinction of two colors produced two strong and irreconcilable factions, which shook the foundations of a feeble government. 45 The popular dissensions, founded on the most serious interest, or holy pretence, have scarcely equalled the obstinacy of this wanton discord, which invaded the peace of families, divided friends and brothers, and tempted the female sex, though seldom seen in the circus, to espouse the inclinations of their lovers, or to contradict the wishes of their husbands. Every law, either human or divine, was trampled under foot, and as long as the party was successful, its deluded followers appeared careless of private distress or public calamity. The license, without the freedom, of democracy, was revived at Antioch and Constantinople, and the support of a faction became necessary to every candidate for civil or ecclesiastical honors.”
No social media in those days. As the great British journalist Charles McKay said in EXTRAORDINARY POPULAR DELUSIONS AND THE MADNESS OF CROWDS, “It will be seen that people think in heards, they go mad in heards, but they recover their senses slowly and one by one.”
If I might go back a little bit further to Athens 595 BC and a civilization in collapse. Athens was run by its bankers and Athens best and brightest were indentured servants. They called in the poet, philosopher statesman Solon to save the city.
Solon cancelled debt and Athens again entered a golden age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon
One fact is that some people broke into and entered the Capitol Building shouting 'Hang Pence!' But, you think Marcuse was a uniform!! Motive refers to purpose or goal which was to intervene upon the vote count. It is obvious and you are fatuous and disingenuous.
If one thinks this is all theatre and the inmates have taken over the asylum's I have nothing to offer but my empathy. In 1964 Reagan gave his Time for Choosing Speech.
You can listen to it today. Reagan told America to reject democracy. Reagan spoke to the masses in their language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBswFfh6AY&t=47s
If one remembers what really happened in 1964 the election was about Civil Rights and Voting Rights.
Meanwhile an oligarchy has gained control.
If your in-laws are over a hundred that would make you an old man. I believe you to be at most 18. I see your responses and like all science my theory is always open to new discovery. I see no evidence that you are anything but a lonely, brilliant and angry juvenile.
It is 25 below and I don't need to go anywhere. I don't watch television. I am trying to learn how to write. I spend my time waiting for gardening season and my wife and I have driven millions of miles and we no longer wish to fill up every week.
It wasn't that your in laws were victims of terrorists but that you claimed in-laws that told me you and truth were not on the same side.
Those who can do. Those who can't, get elected into public office...and never leave.
Nobody's hiring, trust me.
Yes let’s also thoroughly investigate the cause: the rigged and fraudulent 2020 election. J6 is a coverup so those actions will never be investigated. We must have open, honest elections. We don’t.
The election was NOT stolen after the fact/ on Election Day. If any shenanigans occurred, they were before, when States unilaterally changed the rules for mail in voting ostensibly due to Covid, and engaged in unchecked ballot harvesting at their leisure. The Trump DoJ refused to nip this in the bud and it likely bit them in the ass.
One person, one vote. What is the problem?
One legally registered person per vote with photo ID to prove it's you. Why is that too much to ask?
Why do you believe voters ought to provide a photo id when the voting system has functioned just fine for 250 years without them?
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-a-year-after-the-capitol-riot-electoral-reform-is-key-to-american-healing
One thing most Americans agree on is that the Canucks oughta mind their own fuckin' beeswax.
The National Post is a Murdoch clone paper in English Canada and that branch of "conservatism" (oligarchy) is on life support after electing the three stooges of Canadian politics, Kenney, Ford and Moe.
Ford the right wing populist who can't tell a crazy priest from a sane expert, Kenney a Texas stooge with the mind of Rick Perry and Moe of Saskatchewan whose comic timing is turning Saskatchewan's silk purse into dog chews.
you are definitely not my aunt martha. My aunt martha is filled with love not hate and keeps away from the Ministry of Truth.
"Rigged and fraudulent 2020 election." No, it wasn't. If Democrats had rigged it as you claim, Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Republican poison pills would have been tossed from the Senate. And Gaetz, Boebert, Cawthorn, and Greene would be sweeping floors at a gas station instead of acting the fools in the House.
Did you claim that the elections were rigged in 2016, when Trump won? Or only in 2020, when he lost?
Only in 2020, when states stopped counting but then were flipped overnight. We all lived through it.
Since 2000 the drumbeat of illegitimate elections has been getting louder every 4 years. Without judging the merit of those claims the damage to our ‘democracy’ is open for all to see. What would a unity election look like at this juncture? Is there a non-partisan will to save the republic? Not yet as far as I can see.
In real time. I will never forget. I knew the fix was in
Again, you are dissembling and misinforming. the flipping of the vote overnight occurred in 2016 when voters were purged especially in rust belt states. But, the threatening behaviors of republicans on Election Day, voter suppression by gerrymandering, and voter purging will get you nowhere.
So the litmus test of of being concerned about “rigged elections” is now whether or not a person supported Trump? Do you recall the election rigging by the DNC in the 2016 and 2020 Democratic primaries that eliminated Bernie Sanders?
See Mollie Hemingway book “Rigged” nice factual exposition of some of the problems with the “election”. Vast increase in mail in ballots. Precipitous decrease in signature verification. Counting stopped in five states with big cities with long history of corruption. We have ignored voter integrity and fraud prevention for far to long
Indeed the. FBI did it’s best to hurt the Trump campaign with the beginnings of the Russian hoax. Thanks for reminding me
Wrong, the mail in ballots are even more secure than walk-in since there are several checks on the voter from residence to signature - you have to sign the mail-in ballot! No longer can provisional ballots from voters whose polling place was shut down or improperly miscommunicated to the voter be jettisoned.
The same could be said of Democrats. Did Trump win because of the Russians.
It's been investigated time and time and time again. Every time, you lose. Again.
Every recount/audit in every state, Joe Biden wins again and most of the time, he gets more votes than the original tally. This has happened in Arizona, Michigan, Georgia and Pennsylvania to name a few states.
You lost. It's time to move on with your life. Better luck next time.
Keep drinking that Koolaid. It wasn't proven because it can't be proved. Most of the fraud was in the mail ballots. Some places they basically eliminated signature verification. And others once the outer signed envelope is separated from the ballot inside there is no way to determine whether the ballot was legally cast. Democrat activists did everything they could to make it possible for fraudulent ballots to be cast.
Signature verification sure came back into fashion during that Gavin Newsome recall vote though. SO many ballots discarded.
Talk about Kool-Aid. If "it wasn't proven because it can't be proved," then you cannot claim there was fraud in the mail ballots, or that there were any fraudulent ballots cast.
If Democrats rigged the election like so many of you falsely claim, then why is McConnell still in the Senate, and Gaetz, Boebert, Greene, and Cawthorn in the House instead of asking "you want fries with that?"
You lost. Get over it.
You've been skull-fucked one too many times by the Newsmax editorial board. As if "Democrat activists did everything they could to make it possible for fraudulent ballots to be cast," isn't the most idiotic sentence one could write or utter.
I moved from IL to WI in 1 June 2020 (the date our house closed in IL). Both my husband and I got mail in ballot forms sent to us from IL, first with the USPS's yellow sticker with our new address and THEN from IL with our correct WI address. What the hell?
You made this up, how can you mail-in your vote without registering to mail-in vote and providing a signature? If there was no check by residence and signature, then you and your buddies could just fill in ballots and stuff the box. You don't know how it works.
Many states, including my own California, simply sent out mail ballots without any request from the voter. Not made up. And many states, overburdened by the extraordinary number of mail ballots, relaxed or ignored signature verification procedures, in many instances in contravention of the election laws in those states. In addition many states relaxed, or eliminated, rules against ballot harvesting. None of this is news.
I don't have a strong position either way (I didn't vote) but I will say this. Doing recounts is meaningless once you realize you're simply counting votes. Not auditing the process. It's like counting cash in the bank after it was robbed. You get the same result over and over but the missing cash is still gone.
Exactly
Bullshit. Very few if any actual audits done. You are a liar
Interesting idea there... I'm gonna do some research on that.
Great thanks
100%
If the House and/or Senate change hands we may have new investigations…ones that go after the FBI, DOJ, and CIA.
If they do change leadership and they don't go after them, well....holy hell!
Those criminal enterprises need to be disbanded
Result: 1200 Capitol and DC Police fight back 12,000 republican marauders.
They don't even have to go that far - why did the House and Senate Sgts at Arms deny the Capitol Police request for more resources? They just both sailed off into retirement without a single goddamn question. Really? Because you should have handled that a lot better and should be taking a lot of heat for the failures that day.
Naturally I know why they weren't put to the screws, they worked under Pelosi.
They did answer questions and they said why. I discussed elsewhere in these comments. As far as taking heat, they did in the sense that they were fired, but the Dems and media don't want to put the blame there so for now at least, it won't go there.
Bad optics right?
Never mind how DC was boarded up at the end of October in anticipation of the wrath a Trump victory would bring to the streets. That was only going to be mostly peaceful protesting.
https://babylonbee.com/news/fisher-price-introduces-supreme-court-protest-playhouse-that-can-be-vandalized-and-burned-down
They have no interest in that deep dive. Pelosi herself refused extra assistance for the capital police prior to the event didn't she not? They had warnings that things would get heated and they took zero precautions. Looks more like they wanted the event so they it could be used for political theater. After all who has it helped the most?
Maybe there thoughts about what would happen might just backfire
Here’s what I find astonishing and unacceptable …Pelosi disallowed Republicans Jim Jordan and Jim(?) Banks to remain on this Investigative Committee… but Matt Kinziger and Liz “ don’t worry Daddy” Cheney are pathetic in their faux patriotism and dedication to finding” the truth” and preserving Democracy … my ass, that’s not what they’re really concerned about….
Adam Kinzinger is so destroyed he's not running again. Part of that could be the gerrymandering in IL and shifting of his district which would likely make him a big loser.
Well, from my perch, they are all looking like bigger more complicit idiots by the day. If I could , I would laugh in Liz Cheney’s face…hard.
She’s frightening, so out of touch….
This guy Ray Epps should be in jail if all those other hundreds of 1/6 tourists are. So why isn't he?
FED
Probably because he's an FBI agent. Or informant. Or someone who struck a deal.
You call guys attacking Capitol Police Officers with poles and fire extinguishers tourists?
About that fire extinguisher... https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-media-lied-repeatedly-about-officer
I'm not sure what poles you are referring to, but you are welcome to enlighten us all.
But perhaps that isn't what you are here for.
About that fire extinguisher? Let me educate you. How about instead of Greg Greenwald, we look at the judge who sentenced Robert Palmer.
A judge on sentenced Capitol rioter Robert Palmer to 63 months in federal prison for assaulting police with a FIRE EXTINGUISHER and a wooden plank during the Capitol attack on January 6.
It's on tape and he admitted to it in court. You have nothing.
The media portrayed officer sicknick as having been beaten to death by a fire extinguisher and never adequately corrected that narrative. By mentioning the fire extinguisher offhand you are appear to be employing that misinformation to bolster your arguments here.
"Assault" can mean many things. I'd interested to find out if Robert Palmer caused any serious injury or death with his actions. Care to cite your source?
Happy to cite my sources: Fox News, NY Post, ABC, NBC, CBS, Newsweek, Business Insider, Washington Post, New York Times, etc.
It's all over the news as Robert Palmer received the stiffest sentence yet and as someone who assaulted police officers, he deserves to suffer.
Before his sentencing hearing in Federal District Court in Washington, Mr. Palmer, 54, wrote a letter to Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, saying that he had come to recognize that Mr. Trump and his allies had lied to their supporters by “spitting out the false narrative about a stolen election and how it was ‘our duty’ to stand up to tyranny.”
At the hearing, Mr. Palmer became emotional describing how he had watched a television news segment about himself while in jail and was “absolutely devastated” to see the “coldness and calculation” with which he had attacked the police. He told Judge Chutkan he was “really, really ashamed” of his behavior that day and said he would never attend a political rally again.
There were over 150 police officers injured and I can't tell you if he caused serious injury. I doubt he caused death because if he did, he's be doing a lot more than 5 years.
Robert Palmer wasn't going to do any harm at all that day, but then he found the idea Simply Irresistible.
It's Glenn, not Greg Greenwald. Blasphemer!
What do you call a suspect on the FBI s most wanted list is is suddenly removed?
Why are you so obsessed with this one person? Is it because you're embarrassed by the actions of the 700+ Trump supporters who were arrested? One person versus 700+ people. That's a big difference.
No, I had never heard of this person until four days ago. I’m not a Trump supporter. I’m a supporter of free and fair elections. George Carlin had it right… see what happened when someone tried to infiltrate their private “ we have this sewn up for decades” club ? And yes, I do believe DC is corrupt as hell across PAC,lobby filled K Street, legislative, judicial and executive branches… so, I dismiss all petty , partisan comments like yours.
Let's do some numbers. The MSM claims over a hundred thousand right? What's 700 as a percentage of 100k after painstaking review of thousands of hours of video with facial recognition software and social media social justice warriors?
That's right: 0.7 percent. If you pull over 100 drivers randomly, guess what percentage have some kind of record, misdemeanor, violent encounter in the past? What percentage are drunks, criminals, habitual offenders. I'll let you folks google away. Or perhaps Duck Duck Go.
My finding...19 million (out of say 330 million) have felony convictions of some kind. Many more have misdemeanors. Enough already with the insurrection. The average American crowd is teeming with convicted felons. Doesn't matter if it's Jan 6 or the "summer of love" It's all in the PR spin, baby. Shockingly, nothing was set on fire and the only discharge of a weapon was a capitol police officer shooting a civilian.
Have a go and see if you can answer it. When there are questions about federal involvement, and there is a person who was clearly heavily involved but hasn't been arrested despite 700+ other people being arrested, why do you think that person might be particularly interesting? Do you genuinely not see an answer that doesn't involve perjoratives?
Who is Ray Epps?
The alleged federal informant inciting the idiots before/during 1/6.
After someone brought him up, I researched The Revolver who has done great reporting on him.
How about this, to meet in the middle:
1. There should be voter ID as a basic voter security measure.
2. It must be free and easy to get.
3. There must be a paper audit trail to verify votes.
4. Techniques that could compromise the secret ballot (including some kinds of ballot harvesting) should be prohibited.
5. Voting in person in a limited period should be the default, absent unusual circumstances.
6. The authorities must commit sufficient resources to avoid long voting lines.
How hard can this be, for Pete's sake? Regardless of what you think of the 2020 election, we should take measures so that there can be ready verification, a quick tally of the vote so that the winner is announced the same day, and reasonable convenience combined with security,
No outside funding for running the election - that is a job that is funded by our taxes and should not be open to the highest bidder.
“Boo, hiss”-Mark Zuckerberg
Yes, of course, let's give the kids, welfare queens, and other unemployed outsized influence by letting people spend unlimited time and energy politicking, but no money whatseover. Surely those are the sorts of people who will make the best decisions for America!
I'm talking about the funding given to select locales to supplement the govt funding for the actual mechanics of the election - ballots, precincts, counting, etc. It was covered in Time just about a year ago re: the Center for Technology and Civic Life.
Especially with a claw back provision based on the limitations on how the money is used.
The government is just an outsourcer. They go to meetings all day. They don’t do operations
Every Republican would vote yes on that, and every Democrat would vote no.
Agreed. Some states did very nicely. Five stopped counting and sent people home then started counting again. All in precincts with a solid history of voter fraud
Saw a tweet of a counter saying if anyone voted R she would name them. I don’t even like that local pols are given v small voting locality’s tallies
You'd almost think the Uniparty is happy with the chaos and the nonstop pitting of Americans against each other... Almost as if it was by design.
America is a great country filled with great people whose 'elites' are simple gutter trash
Bingo!
The Left wants to defund the police. The Right wants to keep the police funded. How about we meet in the middle and defund the Feds.
How about mandatory time off to vote and advance polls for several days. Even Canada can do that much. Remote voting by whatever means is fraut with opportunity for fraud.
If you can vote by mail why is there any need for "mandatory" (I assume paid) time off?
Voting in person at a polling place is the LEAST you could do as a citizen. A physical paper ballot is the only REAL way to exercise your franchise with scrutineers from all partys observing and Keeping the process honest. The mandatory time off does not have to be paid; your government does a lot for you and to you; surely you can put a little effort in. Several days of advance polls and yes, mail in ballots for the disabled and people out of the country. You should be registered by the state with a public list of electors. It's not rocket science, small third world countries manage. The current US system would never stand up to unbiased scrutiny. You really can do better!
Have you ever tried to vote in a blizzard? It's silly to say "you can do better" when someone is simply chosing one method of voting over another.
Actually I have, they're not uncommon where I'm from. Normal I vote in an advance poll at my convenience. Everyone can always do better unless they're hidebound and locked in status quo.
Because i like to vote in person on election day. Anything can happen. My city had some drop off ballot boxes set on fire. We seem to have a lot of post-geriatric candidates of late. And i can get seriously grumpy if candidates become magically disappeared from the ballot after voting had already started.
However, mandatory time off on election day has its problems for certain jobs and professions.
So because you "like" to vote in person, the country needs to spend millions and millions of dollars?
You assumed "paid" time off. I didn't. If someone wants time off to vote, they should be able to get it. It doesn't take a whole day to vote.
Also, it's not so much that i "like" to vote in person, but if i want my vote to be registered and counted i think it's necessary.
It shouldn't take a whole day to vote, but we've seen long lines at the polls in way too many precincts on TV for decades now.
Voting by Mail would be OK with me until DeJoy started heading the USPS. Why Biden hasn't fired him yet is just beyond understanding -- unless one considered that Biden is as senile as many claim.
Yes
There's no "need" unless you want to encourage participation. It would be one way to foil the long lines that we see in some precincts.
Arguing against making election day a national holiday would indicate being against widening enfranchisement.
If you don't want it to be a holiday, then perhaps propose moving election day to a Saturday. It doesn't have to be the first Tues in November.
Except it will be Sunday and you’ll bemoan what you wished for no offense
Because you have to have a valid reason to vote by mail - except not now.
In my state you just request a ballot. Of course you have to be a registered voter and your signature has to match. You can also track your ballot, and make sure it's be tabulated.
Do you mind saying which states do this without requiring you validating you’ll be out of your district,above a certain age or disabled? As someone else mentioned, it is the least we can do to vote in person, both paper and machines, considering the benefits we receive that are paid by the all citizens - such as natural disasters & infrastructure if nothing else. Mail in votes used to not be counted in certain situations - did you know that? If there was a clear huge majority win that the number of absentee ballots could not change after the fact (such as APO/FPO Military abroad ) they were just secured. Electoral state policy is so manually labor intensive it is subject to crazy shite like this. Can we believe signature checks done by volunteers are done any better than the hanging chads? I’m not saying mail in is wrong because certainly electronic voting is just as susceptible (ironically) to human error
I live in Nebraska, anyone can request a mail-in ballot. I vote by mail because I can readily research all the candidates and ballot initiatives before voting. Also, I've been stuck trying to vote in a blizzard before. All in all, mail-in works for me, especially now that you can track your ballot.
The infamous "signature must match" until you find that the sig envelope is missing maneuver during the audit.
Mail in ballots and in person ballots must be counted at the same time. Arbitrary receipt dates post election open the door wide open to fraud.
Ballots postmarked after election day should definitely be disqualified.
Ballots received after polls close should probably be disqualified -- or perhaps DeJoy should be arrested instead?
The middle, and logic, have disappeared.
"Quick tally of the vote" There is no excuse with available voting measures that all ballots should not be in the hands of the voting authorities and ready to be counted AT THE TIME THE POLLS CLOSE. No ballot should be accepted after that time. Total BS that votes are trickling in and "discovered" after the polls close. And if you can't figure out how to accomplish your vote by then, that is on you. You are just irresponsible, and we shouldn't care what your opinion is. If election authorities are "discovering" boxes of ballots later, they are incompetent or corrupt and need to be dealt with.
I understand where you are coming from. I want to be able to delay mailing in my ballot as late as possible and/or to have a convenient place to drop it off. We should definitely have a firm deadline.
Perhaps we should not let the networks start predicting winners. It seems to me that is one of the major factors in reports of votes "trickling in" or new ballot boxed just found. We've gotten used to knowing the winner before we go to bed on election night, mere moments after the CA polls close. This is ridiculous since each partisan "news" outlet can make whatever claim it wants based on what ever evidence it wants, but if their evidence doesn't hold up, people will have already been predisposed to believe the initially reported results.
No results should be reported until some period of time after the polls close, maybe as long as a week?
This is a "Moderate Rebels" podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/moderate-rebels/id1267540234?i=1000542645376
It talks about the procedures in place for Nicaragua to hold their elections. First, everyone has an ID card. The USA has so many different systems for proving one's ID, why not a voter ID that is free and available to everyone. Maybe you can go to the post office to get it. (The "how" is negotiable. The "what" isn't -- an ID. The "who" isn't -- everyone with a SSN) Each ballot has a standardized QR code which a "secret" insert from the local election board. They had several other protections that I don't recall, but the impartial international observers proclaimed those elections free and fair -- as opposed to the US and OAS accusations of wide-spread fraud. If you listen to a few "Moderate Rebels" podcasts or read any of the Grayzone articles you'll recognize that it is the USA that is lying. (Just as they did about 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Honduras, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and on and on and on...)
Then secondary databases like the Kris Kobach's Crosscheck should be made illegal. It exposes personal information and is totally flawed. Again, American's are under total surveillance now, perhaps we should figure out how to control it better than we do.
Each central office that counts the votes needs to have procedures for auditing the receipt of ballot boxes. When I was doing the precinct elections in CA, they seemed somewhat lax, but they were easily understood.
There are, of course, huge holes in what I've suggested here and that's the problem. We each seem to get bogged down in certain details of the process and fail to see the big picture.
I have little faith in the "Voting Rights" laws Biden is pushing. I'm sure it is hardly impartial. But then, so are the Republican proposals.
Thank you for the reference. I will check it out.
Over the years I have been involved in elections in different ways: as a local candidate, poll watcher, ass't A.G., voter since 1972.
Nobody should have to stand in line for hours to vote. There is no excuse for not enough voting machines in polling places. So much money is "spent" by the government. Buy more machines; pay election workers more. Not quantum mechanics.
If I thought declaring Election Day a national holiday would get people to honor it more I would be all in. That is just an excuse and another lame justification for "voting rights" legislation to address "voter suppression."
Yesterday there was reporting that 40 "youth activists" commenced a hunger strike in Washington, demanding that Congress pass "voting rights" legislation. A leader of the group was quoted, " . . . (W)e've spoken to young people (from various states) who have been forced to jump through hoops to exercise their right to vote." Voting hoops. How unfair.
In 1972 I turned 18. That was the year 18-year olds got the right to vote. The fact that my age group was getting shipped to Viet Nam was the impetus for the change. I have never missed voting in an election, because it is of value to me. It is not difficult and at this point in our history, accessible to everyone.
I don't care if we move election day, but maybe keeping it on the same historic date will help people remember to vote. On the other hand, here in Illinois we moved up the date of the primary election (to February as I recall) when Obama was running for President. Wanted to give the favorite son a leg up in delegates. I had no problem with that; even voted for him. Since then, Illinois has moved its primary to (traditional) March, and now to June. Seems like the Democrats may be suppressing the vote -- confusing us by taking the primary on the road so much. But it's OK. We mail everybody with a driver license a reminder to request their absentee ballot. Don't worry about the date of the election. We are here to help you vote your ballot.
To your point about media calling the election, who cares? I care more about whether it is true that election officials stopped tabulating votes for the night (Arizona?) for some reason. If ballots aren't leaking in or out of the election authorities, predicting a winner would be like a weather forecast to some extent.
Finally, is it correct that this proposed "voting rights" legislation includes a mechanism for congressional candidates to receive taxpayer funding? If so, that is reason enough for it to go down in flames.
One more thing: anyone who tampers with that paper audit trail should be lined up against a wall and... properly disposed of.
I don't know what #4 means. I know what I think you maybe think it means, but I see holes.
Same with #5
7. Standardized voting machines across the entire nation based on open-sourced hardware and software.
8. Election day is a holiday. No one is denied the right to vote because the boss won't let him.
9. A non-partisan commission (like a jury pool) is given oversight of the ballot counting.
I was listening to a "Moderate Rebels" podcast of the voting process in Nicaragua which I recall was out last November. They have QR codes identifying each ballot. They also have a local election commission that has a separate secret process that only they know to keep higher ups from polluting their count. (I didn't quite understand this). There is NO CHARGE to get a voter ID and everybody gets one.
Biden's push for his voting legislation is just to ensure Democrats win. I have no faith that it will bring about free and fair elections. I feel the same way about Republican efforts.
MOST IMPORTANT: somehow encourage third parties. Ranked-Choice voting appears to be one option.
Several states already have mail in voting for all with no problems. Would they have to change their procedures based on bogus claims.
Yeah, here in my state, with it's mail in voting, there is zero checking to see if a ballot request comes from a US citizen and voter rolls aren't purged.
Purging rolls seems to be beyond anyones skill level
"No problems" here meaning nothing that Democrats regard as problems.
I live in such a state and I've gotten a ballot with someone else's name on it mailed to me in every election since the practice was adopted.
Also get out the vote jerks send unsolicited requests in your name for absentee ballots -which you are only supposed to use if you are absent ffs. I had to sign an affidavit when I voted in person. And that was just for a REQUEST for an AB
When you execute an estate probate, banks or the IRS AUTOMATICALLY notifies social security of the death. Bank accounts are frozen. If you move, and send the USPO a change of address, every corporation that wants your new business sends you crap. Why can’t they automatically send the death or intent to move to a county or state voting agency? Wtf
I simply fail to see how mail in votes can be verified without voter identification.
You lose a constitutional right to a secret ballot if you have to identify write-ins. Next time it may be your person who gets skunked
Ted Cruz: How many FBI agents or confidential informants actively participated in the events of January 6th?
Jill Sanborn: Sir, I can't answer that.
Ted Cruz: Did any FBI agents or confidential informants commit crimes of violence on January 6th?
Jill Sanborn: I can't answer that sir.
Ted Cruz: Did any FBI agents or FBI informants actively encourage and incite crimes of violence on January 6th?
Jill Sanborn: Sir, I can't answer that.
I think that it's fairly cut & dried. The FBI are innocent and there is absolutely nothing to see here. Back to sleep America.
Correction: woke, not awake.
Italians have a word, "dietrologia," which is the art of detecting the more sinister reason hidden behind an official explanation.
Good word.
"dietrologia,"
I think it really means that just because you’re paranoid it doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.
In Russia/Ukraine/former USSR that’s called reading/watching the official news!
Don’t be smug it’s just as prevalent in The US
this word will be incorporated into my lexicon going forward. Grazie
You are most welcome.
Not surprised
After watching the peaceful protests of 2020, the Capitol rioters looked like amateurs. Let's face it. This was a pathetic attempt at rioting. None of them were armed with frozen water bottles or fireworks. You have to know that many have guns at home but they didn't bring them. Everyone was easily identifiable with distinct clothing and few masks.
No one set fire to a single dumpster. Not even one! No one was tagging anything. Some were even taking selfies with the Capitol Police! Hello!!? ACAB anyone? Most of them just wandered into the Capitol like it was no big deal. Everyone knows that it is smash and burn time once you get into the building. If they were even remotely organized, they could have set fire to the whole place! They didn't even have a bail fund established. Amateurs!
When I watch a riot, I have certain expectations. Minimum standards of deviance need to be adhered to. It only lasted for 3-4 hours. I expect a riot to persist for at least a week. There are some cats in Portland and Seattle that could teach them a thing or two. I really hope that they think about that next time. I'm definitely not watching the next one unless they get their shit together.
More people got injured charging the goal posts at Michigan - Ohio State game than at the Capitol Riot.
You forgot about strobes and lasers.
They didn't even have any quirky chants. It was a disorganized mess. Sad!
"Hey hey, ho ho, what else to say, uh we don't know ..."
It is a very easy thing to be used to stand for something or someone you want to think is good when behind the scenes it/he/she isn't good even though you thought it was. Everyday people are often part of the floor show orchestrated by others and haven't a clue because their sincerity about their cause blinds them to what is the goal of the ones pulling the strings.
In the eyes of the media/corporate/big tech complex, one world view is clearly more equal than the other. When a government turns on say, more than 40% of its own people with a constant drumbeat of false narratives, it can't be pretty, no matter where you are on the political spectrum.
The worst part is this is the future whatever your party or vote. Why bother
Matt Goetz and Marjorie Taylor-the GOP has the worst admin in history dropped into their electoral laps and the best they can promote is an accused sex trafficker and Alex Jones in a skirt?!?!
You do know the meaning of “accused” don’t you? Maybe not. You do know that Garth has no charges filed don’t you? Maybe not.
What a yutz you are.
The news was leaked so that self righteous retards like Stx can spread the lies, so no point explaining it to him/her. I am progressive and don't care about Gaetz, but the dirty trick to destroy him is obvious.
Good on ya!
I know, right??? These two yutzes?
When many criticized Grant to Lincoln’s face he said, “at least he fights”. They fight, good for them. BTW you are a sex trafficker. Now you are an “accused” sex trafficker. See how easy that is??
I think you're on to something. Now have the FBI lose the 302 and the Justice Dept attorney forge some paperwork and you too can go to jail unless you please guilty.
In case any of you still misinformation-ally think that anything nefarious happened last January 6th regarding the FBI, the Financial Times is here to set your mind at ease.
https://www.ft.com/content/1e030bbb-a074-4fbd-94c5-94fe579a9a8a
"Psy-ops are a crucial weapon in the war against disinformation"
So you see if the Feds were inciting violence it was for the protesters own good.
Maybe the FBI saw that the protesters were overweight & they knew the physical exertion of storming the Bastille would help the crowd burn off some calories.
Maybe the FBI just wanted the protesters to have nice patriotic backgrounds for their selfies since, in the end, that seemed to be the major reason they stormed the Bastille in the 1st place.
Maybe the Feds saw the crowds aimlessly wandering around & were just trying to empower their sightseeing trip with a visit to the Capitol.
In the end we're still left with a mystery. But I'm almost 10% sure it isn't a nefarious mystery.
I mean, it's not like the FBI has a long and storied history inciting violence among dissident groups.
Right?
I miss when creepy FBI shit involved Mulder and Scully.
Hey wasn't that the show that resurrected itself around a pandemic?
Did you ever see the X-Files theory that said they were really mind controlled government assassins tasked with cleaning up the government's genetic experiments?
I did not. Haha. That’s pretty clever.
And yeah, now that you mention it that last season did end on a pandemic note.
Happy Days
Financial Times - boy had that rag taken a fall
"The government attacked the people that day."
Bull and shit. MAGAs invaded and attacked the Capitol that day, some in pitiful insurrectional hopes of stopping Congress from certifying Biden as President, others because they liked hurting people and breaking things. Donald Trump committed felony-level dereliction of duty in refusing to stop them. All other versions are a damn lie.
Ashli Babbitt? I'm sorry she's dead. That's not snark, I wish nobody had died or been bloodied that day, including her, and including all the cops with permanent injuries from the mob. But when you willingly join a riot, invade the Capitol, and move to the very front of the battle line, don't be surprised when your life becomes Omaha Beach on D-Day.
That said, absolutely, release the videos. Every pixel. The videos of the Trump Rally, the march, Trump watching the riot on television with glee and instant replays, the invasion of the Capitol, the destruction and injuries within and without, all of it. Release every foot. I will be happy to watch it all, because it will further prove what we already know:
This was a Red Hat Riot whose goal was to stop the vote count.
Two things could be true out once: (1) misconduct by rioters, and (2) misconduct by federal law enforcement. I want reliable and thorough information to sort this out.
I agree this is not either/or and my money is on both. You don’t have to think storming the Capitol was “okay” to also believe there may have been instigation. Sort of like you may think we need to improve voting security, without believing that only the democrats cheat.
Except that... only the Democrats cheat.
Rich, Rich, Rich.
How does one "instigate" 25,000 people? And toward what end?
Nowhere near that many people were actually doing any assaulting or entering of the building, and I think you know that.
Well said. This does not have to be an either/or situation. Unfortunately there is probably plenty of justified criticism all around.
More than justified criticism "all around," there will be plenty of justified prison sentences all around.
Off your meds- this doesn’t even sound like you did your subscription get hijacked? No seriously I always respect your point of view and I always take my meds
Get the rest of them
A true and important statement.
I want reliable and thorough information, too, Skeptic. But why are people so eager to believe that MAGAs couldn't possibly riot unless the FBI made them?
Even if the FBI had agents in the crowd--as they damn well should have--how do a hundred of them make 25,000 people do anything? By all means, see what the FBI role, if any, was. But no matter what federal agents did, that does not make January 6 any less an insurrection and riot.
That mob was in place because Donald Trump put them there; the FBI certainly didn't invite them. January 6 is on the mob and their president, nobody else.
I remember COINTELPRO, the Chicago Police Red Squad, the FBI files, and the other government secret squirrels who infiltrated any groups they considered "subversive" even if those groups were not. Their actions were illegal and shameful, and whatever versions they're doing as I write this--I'm quite sure they are--remain so.
But, I won't let MAGAs claim they wouldn't have rioted and invaded the Capitol unless they'd been "forced" by "undercover FBI agents." MAGAs tore into the Capitol because they wanted to, because their cult leader urged them on with his "be tough, be strong, fight, fight, fight" rhetoric, and because the Oathkeeper goon squad planted inside the mob lit the fuse.
I'm happy to slap the FBI for its illegal and unconstitutional acts. But January 6 is not one of them--that is on Trump, his Oathkeepers, and his Red Hats.
"Misconduct by rioters." Right off I'm thinking no way could one encounter that three-word clause anywhere but here at TK.
Slightly more verbose in its construction, “fiery but mostly peaceful protests” made its debut on mainstream media well before “misconduct by rioters”.
Why? You planning on mounting your own investigation? Conducting competing trials?The United States Department of Justice counsels patience. Recent smoke signals emanating from the chimneys at 950 Pennsylvania Ave. indicate a coming spectacle that will make Watergate look like a slow day in small claims court.
If you're responding to me, it's because I want to watch all the videos. I prefer to study original, not edited, work to better understand how things happened.
I'm happy to wait for the House and DOJ to do their work. But patience has its limits: January. If the House changes hands at the midterms, Republicans will take a wrecking ball to this investigation and scatter its committee members to the lousiest subcommittees Congress has to offer.
Videos of what? You're taking your cues from the idiots in this comment section, who, in very predictable fashion, immediately start deflecting with absurd conspiracy theories of FBI involvement. That is no longer the story, indeed, it was never the story. Do you or anybody else here attempt to gather information outside of these threads?
Garland and the DOJ have been methodically working on this for more than a year. Seriously, do you not read the news? The riot at the capitol is pretext. At this point the action at the capitol looks to be merely ancillary to THE biggest political criminal conspiracy in this nation's history.
And christ, Garland's not going to wait until after the Nov. elections. Beginning in March the big show commences. But don't take my word for it. Exercise a little patience and then sit back and enjoy the show.
--Don't get snotty with me. I take cues from no one but myself, and I read more news than you could handle in any given day.
--I already addressed the "FBI conspiracy theory" meme: I don't care if a hundred undercover FBI agents talked shit to the crowd. Nobody forced those people to riot and invade, they did it on their own dime.
--"Videos of what?" The thousand or more hours of rally and riot videos that the government says it has in its possession but has yet to release to the public. I want to see those videos, and have every right as a citizen to do so. That is part and parcel of "gathering information outside these threads," so you should be a fan. Garland can wait until he's done analyzing them for legal purposes, but then I want them on the Internet. Not because they will prove "government conspiracy," but just the opposite: there was no "government conspiracy" on January 6 other than what Trump and his pals cooked up.
--What makes you think March is the magic month? These kinds of investigations can take years, and if the House and/or Senate change hands at midterms, that job becomes a thousand times harder. I hope you're right and heads begin to roll in eight weeks, but I won't hold my breath.
Don't hold your breath and don't take my word for anything. But I will reiterate: the focus and the locus of the investigation now has absolutely zero to do with the riot itself. The spotlight is on who planned it, who carried out the various treasonous and felonious acts, and who ultimately were the leaders who planned a coup of the U.S. government. Garland is casting a large and wide net because there are lots of big fish to haul in. Some very bad fish. But don't take my word for it.
How about the FBI answer questions pertaining to their involvement in the riot? I trust you are familiar with the recent hearings where the FBI refused to answer any questions pertaining to the number of FBI agents that were there during the riot, involved in inciting the crowd, and also animating the violence. Questions from sitting US senators no less.
Absolutely agree. I want to hear from everyone about everything, including the FBI. Subpoena Trump, subpoena the Feebs, subpoena everyone.
So if some time down the line when the relevant documents are declassified (assuming that will occur in future), and we do find out that there was indeed an integral and decisive FBI presence, will you be sympathetic to "other versions" of the riot?
That’s the point it will be old news. The only consequence will be one less fundraising event
And vice-versa?
If there was no FBI involvement (a big 'if' considering all the current FBI obfuscation and opaqueness and its sordid history), then yes we can chalk up the violence (nowhere near an insurrection or a coup) to the many polarized and propagandized rioters. But this was no threat to 'democracy'. The Gilens and Page academic paper pretty much pulls the rug under the notion that any remaining democratic governance exists here in the US.
January 6 was a triple play: insurrection, riot, and protest all at the same time. The trick in responding to it is sorting the wheat from the chaff; pulverizing the wheat; but letting the chaff float away.
By that, I believe the mob was composed of four distinct elements: insurrectionist rioters; rioters; trespassers; and legitimate protestors. Where FBI agents do or don't fall into categories I have no idea.
Insurrectionist rioters were a minority; maybe one or two hundred in the entire mob. (That's only a guess by me.) But they were the most dangerous because they actively tried to stop the election count; they beat people bloody and broke things badly; and they would have detained or murdered Pence, Pelosi, or any other legislators they deemed The Enemy if they'd gotten the chance. Thanks to a couple hundred Capitol Police officers (and the Secret Service spiriting Pence away fast) they didn't get close enough.
Non-insurrectionist rioters caused most of the physical damage. The ones who hurt cops and other people need prison time, but not tons. The ones who destroyed property but didn't hurt people can spend a short time behind bars and pay a fine. The same punishment, I might add, as rioters in the Summer of Floyd SHOULD have gotten but didn't thanks to the weakness of too many local and state governments.
Trespassers? Those who walked into the building but didn't break things or hurt people? Give 'em a fine and let 'em go.
Legitimate protestors who were loud and yelly and waved signs and marched around but otherwise stayed outside? Send them a letter of thanks for participating in our democracy.
Of course January 6 was a threat to democracy. It was a direct attack on our election system. It wasn't a serious threat because the MAGAs were not serious people, but the intention of their invasion was as serious as a heart attack: "stop the steal" was attempted insurrection, period.
The United States Department of Justice has a decidedly adversarial position to yours. Get focused on the DOJ investigation. Stay tuned.
It depends what you mean by "integral and decisive." I fully expected that the FBI would have undercover agents in the crowd--that's the job. But even if every agent there shit-talked "hey, gang, let's riot and insurrect," that does not absolve a single rioter and insurrectionist from their crimes. They're adults, they knew what they were doing was wrong and highly illegal, and they did it anyway.
If FBI agents actively encouraged the riot--something I don't yet grant, but am willing to see examined--that is a separate issue for which they and their bosses can and should be held accountable.
But the riot and invasion? That's on the MAGAs and Trump, not on the feds, not on anybody but them.
"Should be held accountable" agreed. Can? Not in our current reality and really not since the inception of the FBI. See also my reply above to your now-deleted comment
I deleted it because I rewrote it, above. Your answer might have disappeared with it, sorry. Sadly, we rarely hold anyone in power accountable for anything until decades have passed. They still haven't declassified the JFK files!
If there was FBI or other agency instigation, then there will be no accountability, most will remain unaware of it, and you likely won't have the opportunity to become sympathetic to this view.
I know - arguing this point is lunacy after those answers
Don't worry, Nancy had insurance.
Invaded. Mmm. Strong word. You mean like Omaha Beach invaded? Or you mean how I "invade" my refrigerator after a 10 mile run. You lost me right at the start.
But, I persisted and we have common ground on the release of video. Let's see what really happened. I think there is plenty to satisfy "both" sides that it was an "invasion" cough cough. Or a "peaceful protest" - all depends on which video you splice together. Amirite? LOL.
Invaded is a strong word, but there was a riot, there were trespassers, and there were a few bent on violence. This is not unique, to demonstrations or to DC. The real difference was this was Trump supporters doing the rioting for once. And during a session of Congress. Now, how that qualitatively differs from attacks on the White House in 2020 while the President was there and conducting the business of government is for others to concoct.
The failure to prosecute 2020 is as wrong as any failure to prosecute January 6, or for that matter, the riots during the Summer of Floyd. Rioting, looting, and attacks with deadly weapons should not be politically controversial; government should have ended those vicious acts with any level of force necessary.
To stand by for hours or days while a riot injures and kills people and destroys property is, to me, felony-grade dereliction of duty that should be prosecuted just like the rioters will be. President Trump was derelict in that duty on January 6, and so were the mayors, city councils, and governors of the various cities and states in the Summer of Floyd. They all did nothing as congressmen fled for their lives, fires raged, looters reveled, and blocks of city streets were turned into CHAZ zones that barred city officials from entering.
"Invaded" doesn't begin to cover the grossness of our year of bloodshed, riots, and dereliction of duty, but it's the best I got.
And may the same apply to the many members of the permanent bureaucracy, those in elected offices, or in the intelligence communities active in the "resistance".
But I ain't holding my breath.
A strong word, "invade." But it's the right one for when a mob invades the United States Capitol, commits violent mayhem and hundreds of felonies, and puts the Vice President of the United States and hundreds of congressmen in danger of death or great bodily harm. I'm not sure why that's controversial to you.
We know "what really happened" from the video that's been released. I want the rest released to cut off the air supply of conspiracy theorists who are shocked, shocked at the notion that 20,000 people could riot and invade a building without being forced to do so by "the deep state."
"Amirite?" Yes, you are. January 6 was five events rolled into one: peaceful protest; trespassing; rioting; assault with deadly weapons; and attempted insurrection. Plus a sixth: felony-level dereliction of duty by the President of the United States and his team for their utter failure to shut down the riot with all necessary force, and in failing to do so putting the Vice President and every member of Congress in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm.
My analysis is neither liberal nor conservative, Biden nor Trump. It's a fair analysis of what happened that day. Sorry you got lost on the way to the fridge; I feel your pain on that :-)
But it was mostly peaceful.
Our democracy is not as fragile as they (D's and MSM) would like to scare us into thinking. By pushing the "this was an insurrection" narrative, the Democrats give our enemies a propaganda win. That being said, J6 was a shameful and embarrassing event and true to their roots, the D's will not let a "crisis" go to waste. But they will beat this dead horse too far and it will backfire.
To be fair, R's and D's never let a crisis go to waste. Mitch McConnell is a master of that dark art, too. We are government by the shameful, for the most part.
Biden’s speech the other day was shameful as well, btw.
Nope, that speech was brilliant.
How so? Unless you're being sarcastic.
It was an embarrassment and lost opportunity. Angry and shouting Joe works for about 20% of the had left, the rest are turned off by it. It went so well that it is actually hurting him in the polls. Did you see the latest Quinnipiac? Latino's are turning on him because they actually believe in election integrity and voter id, as do most Americans. Meanwhile Biden and Harris are pretending that it is still Selma 1964 and she was asked to sit at the back of the bus. By the way, since when has the Secret Service started to allow the President and Vice President to travel in the same airplane? I thought that was always a no no. Not anymore I guess.
Who is "our enemies"?
The two that come to mind would be China and Russia who can use this as a propaganda victory to minimize their horrible state sponsored actions. To call this a coup or insurrection, based on what we have seen around the world is a joke and affront to those countries that have actually experienced these. By no definition of the federal statute was this either, which is why we have not seen charges filed. There were no weapons caches, no "state" support and no shots fired. Not a single MOC or politician was touched. Of course we can play the, "well if they had their chance game." To play that would to require us to say, "had security been tighter at the capitol, this would have never materialized." Meanwhile in Kazakhstan....
As usual.
That's an odd take on what's happened and what's likely to happen.
Good point. It’s funny how this used to be a dem talking point years ago
I don't disagree with anything you write here, because it reflects my own view: it was a riot, insurrection, and protest all wrapped up in one, but at the same time stupid, ineffective, and absolutely pointless. As such, it was a fair reflection of Donald Trump: a lot of sound and fury ultimately signifying nothing.
But if the "powers that be" and Democrats are making too much of January 6--and they do, that's politics--the right wing makes too little. RW congressmen who claimed it was "normal tourists visiting the Capitol" should be booted by their own voters next election for not having the brains God gave a turnip. Ditto anyone who claims Trump had nothing to do with any of it. Of course he did, and you explained his role perfectly:
"Trump was doing the shitty thing he always does.... playing a game, rolling the disruption dice and seeing what would happen. All with just enough plausible deniability to back away when needed."
Well said, Roman, thanks.
How would I feel about your mythical congressman? I'd say he or she was right on a few categories and wrong on the rest:
--Yes, it was an undisciplined mob.
--Yes, some committed vandalism.
What he or she left out:
--Hundreds committed mere trespass.
--Thousands committed assault, battery, mob action, and assault with deadly weapons.
--An unknown number committed insurrection. They failed because they weren't very good at it, but failure to rob a bank doesn't spare you bank robbery charges. Same with insurrection: you try it, you're guilty.
--The rest were protestors, there legally and Constitutionally, and they should be publicly praised acting lawfully.
Yes, "the persons without the brains that God gave a turnip are the ones who accept uncritically whatever their chosen "side" tells them to think." Which is why I've always parsed the varying levels of guilt and innocence of January 6: I find turnips sour and untasty.
Would only your mythical congressman bother to do that.
I didn't know Clyde said that. Thanks for the update, it's impossible to keep track of all these moving parts.
Steelers Wheel appreciates the props :-)
I'm a liberal, non-Woke variety. I prefer to see the entire scope of facts, no matter whose "side" they support, and make my conclusions from that. It's exactly why, like you, I enjoy the Substackers so much: in my case, Taibbi, Greenwald, Weiss, Charlie Pierce at Esquire, and Heather Cox Richardson.
The wing nuts are screwing normal Americans from both ends.
You’re far from alone. I think the woketards suck worse , and the middle has been cast aside by focused, financed vocal minorities who call anyone who even dares to disagree an omnophobist. Yep just a made up word. Like rehabilitated. ( Props to Shawshank. )
"Omniphobist" is awesome sauce, Patrick!
If the middle is eliminated with death by taxes the elite and identity squad can coexist - I think that’s the plan
Perfectly said
Stay tuned bucko. You're getting ahead of yourself. Lots of action to come. And as the Duke used to warn: "Careful with what you say--or you'll be eatin' them words."
I don’t buy the false flag arguments or that the FBI was setting it up. They may have been encouraging some misdeeds but the riot was its own thing. However, I think Matt is spot on that Trump was not acting like someone attempting a coup. Trump believed he’d been cheated and so did many of his followers. And the Dems sure acted guilty and don’t seem to care how obvious they are about it. Just look at that Time Magazine article about “fortifying” the election. They are practically bragging about how they cheated and they know the media will cover for them.
Good column from Ross Douthat (who i generally don't have much time for) in the NYT about the Walter book How Civil Wars Start.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/opinion/civil-war-america.html
Questions the plot against Whitmer and the obvious involvement of the FBI.
Some things i really don't get. As much as i loathed George Bush, never did i ever think he had anything to do with planning 9/11. I can't imagine why the FBI would be involved with plan a kidnapping of Whitmer. Wtf would be the intended end game here? Ditto 1/6, if the FBI was involved. Trump lost, and yeah, a lot of people contested it. So let's go for the total overkill? I happen to believe Biden won it as legitimately as any of our elections can be (like i think Trump won '16.) But if Dems wanted to plant a doubt in my mind, FBI involvement in / planning of 1/6 would be the way to do it.
If there's supposedly going to be some sort of civil war (presumably between Rs and Ds), where does that leave the large percentage of the electorate who don't have a team and are disgusted by both parties?
Ever read the history of the Black Army in the Russian Civil War? They opposed both the Reds and the Whites, but ultimately decided an alliance with the Reds was their best choice. Trotsky wiped them out after they had served their purpose.
They chose poorly.
Seen the sad demise of the LibDems in the UK? They chose the Tories, even though Labour felt entitled to their cooperation. They didn't choose poorly in that sense, it wouldn't have ended well if they went with Labour either. There was no real choice except to remain untethered to both.
I say if it comes to that, those of us disgusted by both parties form our own bloc and let the other two parties kill each other off.
We are long overdue for a full-on new party system in this country; the waltzing corpses of Democrats and Republicans have nothing to offer anyone outside of them (and precious little to those inside).
Even better than a new party system is a no party system.
Well, now you're dreaming of what the Founders hoped for - but failed to do themselves. Faction is pretty much inevitable in any scale of human organization.
In reality, yes. Nothing wrong with temporary factions. It's blind loyalty to them that makes it get out of hand. It becomes identity to far to many.
I’m with you sister
Alienated
I increasingly suspect that the January 6th riot at the Capitol was a set up designed to do exactly what it did; the rioters making fools of themselves, humiliating their movement, getting arrested, having Trump impeached and spawning a “domestic terrorism” law - that will ultimately be used primarily against the left. This trap was a fabulous success, accomplishing all those goals. Qui bono?
I suspect 90% of the US was just embarrassed by the spectacle and would prefer to leave it as the pathetic spectacle it was with normals on the left saying "glad that wasn't us!" and those on right going "ouch! we are going to own this for awhile."
Well, except the part about Trump getting impeached. He was impeached well before Jan 6, twice even. And he had already lost the election.
With JFK redux a la Oliver Stone back in the news (and on Showtime) one wonders..."how long will this footage be hidden/censored from investigators and the public?" The truth is in the footage. Thousands of demonstrators (tens or hundreds of thousands?) walked to the capitol. How many were involved in "violence?" Who were they? What did the Capitol police do? Note the footage of police armed and in riot gear with semi-auto weapons standing by in the hallways as A. Babbitt was shot and killed. Were the demonstrators "mostly peaceful" like in the summer of 2020? None of these questions are being answered because...
All we are getting is highly politicized chin music from elected officials. So far, the courts have not charged anyone with "insurrection" but I guess we will "find out more" as time goes on. Will this be like the mysteriously missing FBI 302 from the General Flynn indictment? Years of stonewalling, misdirection etc. yet critical documents are suddenly "unavailable" Wonder who has control of the "missing" footage.
The main stream media could throw some light on the looting and violence in cities where Americans were shot and beaten and threatened and had there position stolen. I listened to WBBM after one of the Chicagos looting and they said it was Facebook orchestrated. Where is the continued reporting on that. Who was prosecuted for those crimes, they had weapons the people o January 6th didn’t.
Good luck with that. MSNBC snd CNN said those protests were ok. And additionally exempt from Covid protocols and scrutiny.
It seems only the locals know the story - it wasn’t generally reported & kinda def conned on social media
And Amapour the worst / who said re Hunter Biden story when asked ‘I’m not doing your work for you’ what a journalist
Pls don’t reply I have to empty trash every hour
My ex had the tv on ffs I’ve since defcon cable
Thank you, Taibbi!
I echo your thanks for his continuing work, Mike.