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madaboutmd's avatar

WHAT RIGHT? That's the effing point. There is not "right" enumerated in the Constitution and the Roe decision was wrongly decided. Now it's been corrected and women who want an abortion can get one in a state that provides it. No one is stopping them. You can start a gofundme for all of those women who want to aid and abet (just as the moronic protestors screamed).

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Mike's avatar

Conservatives are certainly making efforts to stop them. I live in Massachusetts and our state government here is already reacting to attempt by legislators in red states to impose penalties on people in my state who provide abortions or are seen to help people from red states seeking an abortion.

Does this bother you in any way? The fact that they’re trying? I honestly wouldn’t be surprised with this Supreme Court if they somehow succeed.

I’m a doctor myself, albeit an internist. So I sense the unpleasantness of this at a personal level - the idea that I could lose my job and my family lose access to my income because Ken Paxton wants to reach into other states to make abortion illegal for Texan women.

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Jeff Biss's avatar

Those other states have no authority to stop women from exercising their inherent right to abortion. Dobbs is unconstitutional, period, but it will take a liberal uprising to marginalize conservatives to restore women's rights in red states as conservatives do not believe in rights by definition as proven by Dobbs and red state AGs.

Fuck conservatives, they are the enemy since they owned black people.

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madaboutmd's avatar

LOL. Your fucking nuts.

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Jeff Biss's avatar

If you have nothing of substance to add to the discussion, don't post.

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madaboutmd's avatar

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black....or can I not say that anymore.

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Jeff Biss's avatar

You've posted nothing of any value.

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madaboutmd's avatar

Right back at ya!

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madaboutmd's avatar

Then, as a doctor, an internist, don't provide abortions. You're living a pipe dream if you think Ken Paxton will reach to MA to punish them. It's a non-starter and you know it. MA, a once gorgeous state, is now full of the likes of the insane Elizabeth Warren. As a doctor who is pro-choice, I sure hope you apply that to expectations of COVID vaccines. I'm guessing you were required to take one.

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Mike's avatar

You’re kind of avoiding the issue here. It’s not just Ken Paxton, there are legislators in other red states who’re trying to pass legislation to sue doctors in blue states for providing services that are explicitly legal there.

The question is do you think this is right? Or do you think it’s a form of hypocrisy, after everything we were being told about “states’ rights” in the run-up to this SCOTUS decision? And that people in blue states might be correct in pointing this out as a form of hypocrisy?

Covid vaccines are a separate issue. I don’t believe they should be mandatory although I also don’t believe the ridiculous claims of many folks on the right trying to suggest they’re unsafe or ineffective, a proposition which would require me to disbelieve the evidence of my own eyes when it comes to my predominantly vaccinated 3000-patient population.

Massachusetts is a well governed state. Sorry, but not possible to compare it to California. We don’t have high crime rates, we have a humming economy, and we have among the best educational stats in the country - indeed, much better than those of Texas or Oklahoma. I believe we’re in competition on that front with a couple of other New England states, by the way, that are also governed by either Democrats or moderate Republicans.

Honestly, I question whether you’re able to believe that folks who happen to want different things than you, have different philosophical and political priorities, and live differently without it materially affecting you, could nevertheless still be decent people.

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Jeff Biss's avatar

Overall, red states are poorer performers than blue states, economically and socially. for example Illinois, a blue state, has a higher GDP/capita and higher average earnings than Texas. Mass is doing even better as shown in this ranking from 2019 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-real-gross-domestic-product-gdp-by-state/). California, for all of its problems, much caused by a more libertarian philosophy, such as the NIMBY zoning laws that restrict building heights that has created sprawl and the housing crisis, is also a better performer than red states.

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News Nut's avatar

It's a lot more complex than that. First, IL is in deep financial trouble and its residents should beware of the impending implosion;

Second, MASS currently has a Republican governor, which it often does;

Last but NOT least, CA is definitely NOT "a better performer than red states" when it comes to ALL women's rights. Just read what Taibbi wrote about the female prisoners in CA who have been raped by the male prisoners who were allowed to transfer into the women's facilities simply because they claimed to be female. (TK News: The World's Most Taboo Legal Case) CA law gives legal precedence to the feelings of trans identified men over the feelings, rights and SAFETY of biological women in ALL spaces/ situations.

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madaboutmd's avatar

"I question whether you’re able to believe it’s possible for folks to want different things, have different philosophical priorities, or live differently, and yet still be decent people." Hmm, and yet here I am on Matt Taibbi's Substack and have been since it's inception. Who compared MA to CA? Oh, you did. Having said that, any state that has the likes of Elizabeth Warren as its senator is no place I'd ever live. (She can't even condemn the illegal protesting --yes, illegal--in front of the SCOTUS's homes.) So you live where you do because you like EW and I live where I do because I believe her political beliefs are seriously dangerous. That's what makes American red, white and blue.

My late dad graduated from MIT, a nephew graduated from Babson, a niece graduated from Boston college and all came RUNNING back to the midwest. My brother graduated from a small liberal arts undergrad, then midsized law school, then Harvard for his teaching law degree. He teaches at a uni in TX. He's taught with a SCOTUS, and will again with a new SCOTUS, every other summer in Austria. He's written 6 books. Great colleges/universities are everywhere and actually have no reflection on the changing politics of the states over the centuries.

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Mike's avatar

In the meantime, I spent years living abroad and absolutely excluded places like Texas from my list when I came back to the US. I would never want to live in a state where Ted Cruz is senator and Greg Abbott governor. I think their beliefs are seriously dangerous to America. My wife, who comes from the former USSR, wouldn’t want to go back to living someplace where neighbors are eligible for a bounty to snitch on each other.

The only question that really remains is why we shouldn’t ultimately need national passports to visit each other’s locales, in the unlikely event we actually wanted to. Maybe we can figure that out peacefully at some later point.

I do think there is a difference between us, though. I get the sense, largely from all the inaccurate but nasty assumptions you make about me in post after post, that you think I’m personally a bad human being and that the world would be a better place if people like me weren’t around. And yet I myself wouldn’t go so far as to say that about you. After all, you taught kids in the barrio which would argue strongly against such a hypothesis.

But it’s fair to say I don’t want to live in the same country with someone who seems to hate me without even knowing me.

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Jeff Biss's avatar

LOL! What fuck about Covid-19 vaccines? Hey, if a person is a stupid anti-vaxxer then that's their problem. The vaccines are proven safe and effective, so only an idiot would argue against taking it and risk a more severe illness.

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Jeff Biss's avatar

Read The federalist #84 and the Ninth Amendment to answer your question. Rights are not granted by the vote or the government.

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