A fetus cannot survive outside the womb until at least 27 weeks or so. Prior to that it's extremely rare and usually associated with poor outcomes.
Therefore, the woman is the person that gets to make the decision on whether or not to bring the pregnancy to full term. The only one with fully formed "rights" is the woman.
A fetus cannot survive outside the womb until at least 27 weeks or so. Prior to that it's extremely rare and usually associated with poor outcomes.
Therefore, the woman is the person that gets to make the decision on whether or not to bring the pregnancy to full term. The only one with fully formed "rights" is the woman.
You clearly do not like this, and a woman's autonomy to make this decision bothers you, but that is on you to deal with. Women have been aborting pregnancies since we starting walking upright, and they always will. It is their body, and their choice whether or not to bring life into this world. Not yours. Not the church. Not the supreme court. No one but hers.
It seems to be impossible to get you to discuss the issue in a direct and honest way. You say "the woman is the person that gets to make the decision on whether or not to bring the pregnancy to full term." Unless you're being sloppy in expressing yourself, that's a universal claim that the only rights that count are the woman's rights, regardless of the stage of pregnancy or the woman's reasons for wanting an abortion. If you believe that, why bother mentioning 27 weeks or any such milestone, or clinical statistics on the types of abortions that occur in practice? Just come out and say that you think women should be able to have abortions for any reason and at any stage of pregnancy, even up to the last day.
As I've said, "women's autonomy", "their body", and all other such commonly used phrases are designed to evade the core question. If you don't believe that the zygote/fetus/clump of cells/developing child/potential life, or whatever you wish to call it, has any rights before birth, just say so. That's the belief implicitly underlying Minnesota's abortion law. Instead, you continually use phrases carefully crafted to avoid mentioning or even alluding to the existence of anything but the woman and her body.
In Roe v. Wade, the liberal justices engaged in an honest philosophical interrogation of the core question. You, and most liberals, instead just keep repeating the same slogans over and over.
I think I've made it very clear. You are simply being obtuse.
Women have the right to control their bodies. Period.
Most abortions occur int he first trimester. After that, they are rare and usually medically necessary. Either of these scenarios are NONE of your business. Period.
You aren't going to get me to say something that lines up with your weird need to control women's bodies - which, you very clearly want to do.
As I said already, go volunteer at a shelter. Find a way a way to take care of kids that already exist instead of being weirdly focused on women's reproductive rights.
I'm not being obtuse. I simply asked you to say explicitly whether or not you support a woman's right to have an abortion for any reason at any stage of pregnancy, even up to the last day, and you refused to do so. Your latest comment implies that you do, but you don't want to say so explicitly for some reason. It's like pulling teeth to get you to say what you believe in a straightforward manner.
Your belief is in line with Minnesota's abortion law. You're welcome to your beliefs, but as I said in another comment, it's certainly a radical belief in that it departs starkly from Roe v. Wade and the views of most liberals (according to the surveys I've seen). This debate started with your claim that Tim Walz was not "far-left", and my reply regarding the far-left abortion law he signed.
I don't have to reply exactly how you want. You are desperately trying to control the narrative, just as you want to control women's bodies. Not happening.
I've made it very clear. Women have the right to control their reproductive choices, regardless of what those choices are. I trust women to do the right thing. Unlike you.
There's nothing radical about keeping abortion legal. The majority of Americans agree. Even in red states like Kansas and Ohio.
You really ought to ask yourself why you think it's your business to insert yourself into the lives of other people. It's f'n creepy.
Asking for a straightforward statement of your opinion is not "trying to control the narrative." In any case, I finally got an answer from you and as I said, your view and that of Tim Walz is clearly on the radical side of liberal views on abortion, and that settles the original question (you claimed that Walz was no "far-left").
As far as "inserting myself into the lives of other people" goes, that's what laws are all about. Prohibiting slavery is an "insertion" into the lives of would-be slave owners. What you don't want to acknowledge is that for most people, including the liberal Roe v. Wade justices, at some point during pregnancy, the State acquires a "compelling interest" in the right of the developing child, which is why Roe v. Wade allowed States to "insert themselves" into the lives of pregnant women by banning elective, post-viability abortions. You can consider Roe v. Wade "f'n creepy" if you wish, but many liberals considered it a reasonable compromise and are calling for its reinstatement.
The opinion that the right to abortion is absolute throughout pregnancy, without exception, has always been a minority view even among liberals, and it's contrary to the view of the liberal justices in Roe v. Wade. Those facts justify calling it a radical view.
The liberal justices in Roe v. Wade ruled that "for the stage subsequent to viability, the State in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother." In your words, they said that states may "insert themselves into the lives of pregnant women", something you find "f'n creepy". The opinion that the liberal Roe v. Wade justices were creepy is not a mainstream liberal view, though it is apparently your view.
The statistics cited below support my contention that the stance that you and Governor Walz take is radical. It apparently became more prevalent after the Dobbs decision, probably as a reaction to that decision, but your stance is still held by a minority of Americans.
Since you're unwilling to discuss these issues without resorting to vulgar ad hominem remarks, there's no point in continuing.
A Gallup poll from 2018 (1) found that only 13% of U.S. adults thought that abortion should be legal in the third trimester.
A Pew Research poll from May 6, 2022 (2) found that only 19% of U.S. adults think that abortion should be legal in all cases, with no exceptions (30% for Democrats, 6% for Republicans).
An update to a Gallup poll on May, 2024 found that 35% believe abortion should be legal under any circumstances
Recent data shows that 93% of abortions are done within the first trimester. Only about 1% are done after 21 weeks, and those are done due to problems with the fetus or health problems with the mother.
Ultimately, it's NONE of you business. Why are you so obsessed with what women do with their bodies? Give it a rest and MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS.
A fetus cannot survive outside the womb until at least 27 weeks or so. Prior to that it's extremely rare and usually associated with poor outcomes.
Therefore, the woman is the person that gets to make the decision on whether or not to bring the pregnancy to full term. The only one with fully formed "rights" is the woman.
You clearly do not like this, and a woman's autonomy to make this decision bothers you, but that is on you to deal with. Women have been aborting pregnancies since we starting walking upright, and they always will. It is their body, and their choice whether or not to bring life into this world. Not yours. Not the church. Not the supreme court. No one but hers.
It seems to be impossible to get you to discuss the issue in a direct and honest way. You say "the woman is the person that gets to make the decision on whether or not to bring the pregnancy to full term." Unless you're being sloppy in expressing yourself, that's a universal claim that the only rights that count are the woman's rights, regardless of the stage of pregnancy or the woman's reasons for wanting an abortion. If you believe that, why bother mentioning 27 weeks or any such milestone, or clinical statistics on the types of abortions that occur in practice? Just come out and say that you think women should be able to have abortions for any reason and at any stage of pregnancy, even up to the last day.
As I've said, "women's autonomy", "their body", and all other such commonly used phrases are designed to evade the core question. If you don't believe that the zygote/fetus/clump of cells/developing child/potential life, or whatever you wish to call it, has any rights before birth, just say so. That's the belief implicitly underlying Minnesota's abortion law. Instead, you continually use phrases carefully crafted to avoid mentioning or even alluding to the existence of anything but the woman and her body.
In Roe v. Wade, the liberal justices engaged in an honest philosophical interrogation of the core question. You, and most liberals, instead just keep repeating the same slogans over and over.
I think I've made it very clear. You are simply being obtuse.
Women have the right to control their bodies. Period.
Most abortions occur int he first trimester. After that, they are rare and usually medically necessary. Either of these scenarios are NONE of your business. Period.
You aren't going to get me to say something that lines up with your weird need to control women's bodies - which, you very clearly want to do.
As I said already, go volunteer at a shelter. Find a way a way to take care of kids that already exist instead of being weirdly focused on women's reproductive rights.
I'm not being obtuse. I simply asked you to say explicitly whether or not you support a woman's right to have an abortion for any reason at any stage of pregnancy, even up to the last day, and you refused to do so. Your latest comment implies that you do, but you don't want to say so explicitly for some reason. It's like pulling teeth to get you to say what you believe in a straightforward manner.
Your belief is in line with Minnesota's abortion law. You're welcome to your beliefs, but as I said in another comment, it's certainly a radical belief in that it departs starkly from Roe v. Wade and the views of most liberals (according to the surveys I've seen). This debate started with your claim that Tim Walz was not "far-left", and my reply regarding the far-left abortion law he signed.
I don't have to reply exactly how you want. You are desperately trying to control the narrative, just as you want to control women's bodies. Not happening.
I've made it very clear. Women have the right to control their reproductive choices, regardless of what those choices are. I trust women to do the right thing. Unlike you.
There's nothing radical about keeping abortion legal. The majority of Americans agree. Even in red states like Kansas and Ohio.
You really ought to ask yourself why you think it's your business to insert yourself into the lives of other people. It's f'n creepy.
Asking for a straightforward statement of your opinion is not "trying to control the narrative." In any case, I finally got an answer from you and as I said, your view and that of Tim Walz is clearly on the radical side of liberal views on abortion, and that settles the original question (you claimed that Walz was no "far-left").
As far as "inserting myself into the lives of other people" goes, that's what laws are all about. Prohibiting slavery is an "insertion" into the lives of would-be slave owners. What you don't want to acknowledge is that for most people, including the liberal Roe v. Wade justices, at some point during pregnancy, the State acquires a "compelling interest" in the right of the developing child, which is why Roe v. Wade allowed States to "insert themselves" into the lives of pregnant women by banning elective, post-viability abortions. You can consider Roe v. Wade "f'n creepy" if you wish, but many liberals considered it a reasonable compromise and are calling for its reinstatement.
There's nothing radical about women having the right to control their own bodies. Only a shitty people like you would think that.
As our next VP, Tim Walz, so aptly said.
Mind your own damn business.
The opinion that the right to abortion is absolute throughout pregnancy, without exception, has always been a minority view even among liberals, and it's contrary to the view of the liberal justices in Roe v. Wade. Those facts justify calling it a radical view.
The liberal justices in Roe v. Wade ruled that "for the stage subsequent to viability, the State in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother." In your words, they said that states may "insert themselves into the lives of pregnant women", something you find "f'n creepy". The opinion that the liberal Roe v. Wade justices were creepy is not a mainstream liberal view, though it is apparently your view.
The statistics cited below support my contention that the stance that you and Governor Walz take is radical. It apparently became more prevalent after the Dobbs decision, probably as a reaction to that decision, but your stance is still held by a minority of Americans.
Since you're unwilling to discuss these issues without resorting to vulgar ad hominem remarks, there's no point in continuing.
A Gallup poll from 2018 (1) found that only 13% of U.S. adults thought that abortion should be legal in the third trimester.
A Pew Research poll from May 6, 2022 (2) found that only 19% of U.S. adults think that abortion should be legal in all cases, with no exceptions (30% for Democrats, 6% for Republicans).
An update to a Gallup poll on May, 2024 found that 35% believe abortion should be legal under any circumstances
[1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/235469/trimesters-key-abortion-views.aspx
[2] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/
[3] https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx
I didn't say judges were creepy. I said you were.
Recent data shows that 93% of abortions are done within the first trimester. Only about 1% are done after 21 weeks, and those are done due to problems with the fetus or health problems with the mother.
Ultimately, it's NONE of you business. Why are you so obsessed with what women do with their bodies? Give it a rest and MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS.