Billions in fines mean nothing to these corporate criminals. Charging the individuals, prosecuting them, convicting them, and locking them up would put the fear of God in them.
That's the only deterrent that has any chance of working to stem the tide of criminality in the C-suites.
100%. We need to start putting executives in prison for 5-10 years at a crack before they even can get parole. Then people will actually have an incentive to follow the law. Until then, nothing will change.
The problem with white collar crime is that NO ONE goes to jail, they pay fines to the government mostly and that’s it. Instead of just fining them 8 figures if those two executives did some time in jail maybe things would change.
Most of the time fines are paid by the corporation meaning stockholders. People responsible for these actions at best will let go and be hired by another bank.
Interestingly corporations have individual freedoms such as free speech, and therefore the right to make campaign contributions like a person, according to the Roberts Supreme Court.
You are exactly right. But don’t blame The Supremes. Why don’t our elected leaders change things? Because they are not public servants anymore, just people auditioning for a job they want to keep — forever. And even when they die! Exhibit A: Debbie Dingall. BTW, here in Illinois it is how it works.
Ok. - so BoA is the heavy weight champ of the world in criminal fines:
Based on available data, **Bank of America** has paid significantly more in criminal and civil fines over the last 10 years (2012–2022) compared to **Wells Fargo**. Here’s a breakdown:
- **Bank of America**:
- Total fines from 2012 to 2022 are reported to be over **$60 billion** across 124 fines, primarily due to its role in the Subprime Mortgage Crisis and related abuses. Notable settlements include:
- **$11 billion** as part of a $25 billion agreement with major mortgage servicers to address foreclosure and loan servicing abuses.
- **$10.3 billion** to Fannie Mae in 2013.
- **$9.3 billion** to the Federal Housing Finance Agency in 2014.
- Total fines from 2012 to 2022 amount to approximately **$20.32 billion**. Key penalties include:
- **$3.7 billion** in 2022 from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) for mismanagement of auto loans, mortgages, and bank accounts, including a $1.7 billion civil penalty and $2 billion in consumer redress.
- **$3 billion** in 2020 to settle criminal and civil investigations related to the fake accounts scandal.
- **$97.8 million** in 2023 for sanctions violations involving prohibited transactions.
**Conclusion**: Bank of America has paid roughly **three times more** in fines than Wells Fargo over the last decade, driven largely by its extensive penalties following the 2008 financial crisis. However, both banks have faced significant regulatory scrutiny for consumer abuses and compliance failures. For the most precise and up-to-date figures, you may want to consult regulatory databases like the CFPB or SEC websites, as fine totals can vary slightly depending on the source and scope of violations considered.
100%. How about these executives get prosecuted in criminal court. I am always befuddled how a 'corporation' which is only the sum of its people, can pay 'criminal fines' while the corporation can't pull the trigger, only its individual employees can.
This is not to defend Wells, but from what I saw, Wells was the "victim" of not being a good enough Democrat donor. All the big banks engaged in roughly the same practices. Wells (and I suspect BofA) were not Wall Street like Chase, Citi, Amex and others. Wells did not have protection from Chuck Schumer. CFPB had a green light to make an example of them.
It's the financial systems. They can't be fixed. The only way to reduce the malfeasance is to make banking a public utility and severely punish malfeasance. It seems to work well in China and N Dakota.
ANOTHER of Warren Buffet's favorite Berkshire investments. He has dumped a BUNCH (but, as I understand not all) of its shares lately. To me this say: 'Watch out below!'
I have no idea why anyone would bank with Wells Fargo, given how many scams they have run on their customers. They should not exist, and no one would miss them if the Fed shut them down.
As a young man I opened my first IRA with Wells. After seeing first annual statement it became apparent that they were charging a service fee for holding the IRA that exceeded the annual interest they paid. Nice way for wealthy bankers to educate a working stiff about the way the system works.
I ditched them in the mid-2000s after a scandal. They also had terrible customer service. I went to BofA because the local branch took great care of me, but in general they're terrible too.
In 2012 I had 2 cashiers checks in the amount of $250K. The teller told me I would have access to the funds in 3 days. Three days passed and I could not use the funds. The bitchy , stressed out bank Manager said she was hold my cash for 15 days. It caused me untold grief and embarrassment. Later I heard they had been creating bogus accounts and got caught. POS.
Many years go, I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and worked for a major Boston based company. My paycheck came by mail monthly. Because I traveled, there was was a lag time before I could deposit it, and then a much longer one, called “the float.” Wells Fargo was one of many banks who had use of out of state funds for 12 business days before the depositors could use them. I went across the street to BofA, where the bank manager bestowed a commercial account on me and I am grateful to this day. The California legislature later prohibited banks from using “the float,” but that was in the days when the voters were still willing and able to vote Republicans into office.
Well written. The September 2016 settlement dealing with WF opening deposit accounts that “may not have been authorized by consumers,” was one of the most eggregious of this list. That's willful fraud. You can't blame that on a "mistake" or a keystroke error.
Of course they learned their lesson. Crime pays! Hire enough lobbyists and you can make most of your crimes perfectly legal. In the worst case, you pay a tax deductible fine and continue where you left off. China understands the attraction of financial crime so they have public banking. They also understand that the temptations are so great people will still try so they punish the people/crooks severely. They can do this because the people/government owns the banks, unlike here where the banks own the government. They learned from us. We could now, learn from them.
One must assume that for every dollar of fraud that was caught, many went (and continue) undiscovered.
The question to be asked is why anyone with needs more complex than simple household savings and checking account s and maybe a consumer CD, continues to do business with such a firm.
I got a check from Wells Fargo last year for almost $1000 that they said was a court ordered restitution for some shenanigans with my mortgage. I still haven't figured out what they did!
Wells has been a constant, known bad actor abusing clients for many years if not decades. My question is why any entity would keep doing business with Wells knowing that they are getting ripped off in bad faith by many devious tricks and devices? Quickest route to Wells fixing their culture is for clients en mass take their business elsewhere. There are lots of other good choices available. On the other hand, if clients think that the benefits of Wells banking balances getting ripped off then that is the bargain they make with full knowledge of likely consequences.
I’d love to hear about “good choices” for people not wanting their money to be invested in Israel’s genocide or other evil deeds. We’re looking to leave Chase but are stumped as to whether ANY bank anywhere is not doing what it’s doing (ie: investing in Elbit Systems).
I wonder how much of those fines ever made it to the victims, after the proceeds passed through the federal agencies and the NGO and non-profit "middle men." It was a revelation to learn that that money doesn't go to the US Treasury, but is distributed by the agencies. What could go wrong with multi-billions being distributed with minimal oversight?
Billions in fines mean nothing to these corporate criminals. Charging the individuals, prosecuting them, convicting them, and locking them up would put the fear of God in them.
That's the only deterrent that has any chance of working to stem the tide of criminality in the C-suites.
100%. We need to start putting executives in prison for 5-10 years at a crack before they even can get parole. Then people will actually have an incentive to follow the law. Until then, nothing will change.
And, pass some laws to seize assets.
if they stop, the govt wont get its cut. thats why they dont go to jail.
Wells Fargo: The Pfizer of the financial services industry.
Wait... I thought Chase was! Seem to get caught money laundering a lot of cartel money.
Pfizer is a typical corporate a-hole. Wells Fargo is in a whole 'nother galaxy.
The problem with white collar crime is that NO ONE goes to jail, they pay fines to the government mostly and that’s it. Instead of just fining them 8 figures if those two executives did some time in jail maybe things would change.
Effing Martha Stewart went to jail for a nothingburger.
Agreed. Carrie Tolstedt's net worth is currently estimated at $43 million. John Strumpf's is $108-135 million.
This might not be the example people are reaching for when they talk about the gender pay gap.
Most of the time fines are paid by the corporation meaning stockholders. People responsible for these actions at best will let go and be hired by another bank.
Interestingly corporations have individual freedoms such as free speech, and therefore the right to make campaign contributions like a person, according to the Roberts Supreme Court.
You are exactly right. But don’t blame The Supremes. Why don’t our elected leaders change things? Because they are not public servants anymore, just people auditioning for a job they want to keep — forever. And even when they die! Exhibit A: Debbie Dingall. BTW, here in Illinois it is how it works.
Ok. - so BoA is the heavy weight champ of the world in criminal fines:
Based on available data, **Bank of America** has paid significantly more in criminal and civil fines over the last 10 years (2012–2022) compared to **Wells Fargo**. Here’s a breakdown:
- **Bank of America**:
- Total fines from 2012 to 2022 are reported to be over **$60 billion** across 124 fines, primarily due to its role in the Subprime Mortgage Crisis and related abuses. Notable settlements include:
- **$11 billion** as part of a $25 billion agreement with major mortgage servicers to address foreclosure and loan servicing abuses.
- **$10.3 billion** to Fannie Mae in 2013.
- **$9.3 billion** to the Federal Housing Finance Agency in 2014.
- Additional fines in 2023, such as **$250 million** for double-dipping fees, withholding credit card rewards, and opening fake accounts, and **$225 million** in 2022 for mishandling state unemployment benefits during the pandemic.[](https://www.enzuzo.com/blog/biggest-compliance-fines)[](https://whyy.org/articles/bank-of-america-100-million-penalties-for-doubling-fees-opening-accounts-without-customer-consent/)[](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/federal-regulators-fine-bank-of-america-225-million-over-botched-disbursement-of-state-unemployment-benefits-at-height-of-pandemic/)
- **Wells Fargo**:
- Total fines from 2012 to 2022 amount to approximately **$20.32 billion**. Key penalties include:
- **$3.7 billion** in 2022 from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) for mismanagement of auto loans, mortgages, and bank accounts, including a $1.7 billion civil penalty and $2 billion in consumer redress.
- **$3 billion** in 2020 to settle criminal and civil investigations related to the fake accounts scandal.
- **$97.8 million** in 2023 for sanctions violations involving prohibited transactions.
- **$1 billion** in 2018 for auto loan and mortgage lending abuses.[](https://www.enzuzo.com/blog/biggest-compliance-fines)[](https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices)[](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/well-fargo-fines)
**Conclusion**: Bank of America has paid roughly **three times more** in fines than Wells Fargo over the last decade, driven largely by its extensive penalties following the 2008 financial crisis. However, both banks have faced significant regulatory scrutiny for consumer abuses and compliance failures. For the most precise and up-to-date figures, you may want to consult regulatory databases like the CFPB or SEC websites, as fine totals can vary slightly depending on the source and scope of violations considered.
Per Grok
How about Light-Heavyweight Champ?
100%. How about these executives get prosecuted in criminal court. I am always befuddled how a 'corporation' which is only the sum of its people, can pay 'criminal fines' while the corporation can't pull the trigger, only its individual employees can.
The "why" is always that you so-called government wants it 'cut' of the action.
This is not to defend Wells, but from what I saw, Wells was the "victim" of not being a good enough Democrat donor. All the big banks engaged in roughly the same practices. Wells (and I suspect BofA) were not Wall Street like Chase, Citi, Amex and others. Wells did not have protection from Chuck Schumer. CFPB had a green light to make an example of them.
It's the financial systems. They can't be fixed. The only way to reduce the malfeasance is to make banking a public utility and severely punish malfeasance. It seems to work well in China and N Dakota.
Yep, nothing more transparent or reliable than the Chinese banking system.
ANOTHER of Warren Buffet's favorite Berkshire investments. He has dumped a BUNCH (but, as I understand not all) of its shares lately. To me this say: 'Watch out below!'
Bankenstein.
I have no idea why anyone would bank with Wells Fargo, given how many scams they have run on their customers. They should not exist, and no one would miss them if the Fed shut them down.
As a young man I opened my first IRA with Wells. After seeing first annual statement it became apparent that they were charging a service fee for holding the IRA that exceeded the annual interest they paid. Nice way for wealthy bankers to educate a working stiff about the way the system works.
I ditched them in the mid-2000s after a scandal. They also had terrible customer service. I went to BofA because the local branch took great care of me, but in general they're terrible too.
In 2012 I had 2 cashiers checks in the amount of $250K. The teller told me I would have access to the funds in 3 days. Three days passed and I could not use the funds. The bitchy , stressed out bank Manager said she was hold my cash for 15 days. It caused me untold grief and embarrassment. Later I heard they had been creating bogus accounts and got caught. POS.
Many years go, I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and worked for a major Boston based company. My paycheck came by mail monthly. Because I traveled, there was was a lag time before I could deposit it, and then a much longer one, called “the float.” Wells Fargo was one of many banks who had use of out of state funds for 12 business days before the depositors could use them. I went across the street to BofA, where the bank manager bestowed a commercial account on me and I am grateful to this day. The California legislature later prohibited banks from using “the float,” but that was in the days when the voters were still willing and able to vote Republicans into office.
Well written. The September 2016 settlement dealing with WF opening deposit accounts that “may not have been authorized by consumers,” was one of the most eggregious of this list. That's willful fraud. You can't blame that on a "mistake" or a keystroke error.
Right. They fired the underlings, claiming mgt. didn’t know about the scheme. Lol. Sure
I still don't understand why no one hasn't gone to jail for these crimes.
Jail is for the poors.
Of course they learned their lesson. Crime pays! Hire enough lobbyists and you can make most of your crimes perfectly legal. In the worst case, you pay a tax deductible fine and continue where you left off. China understands the attraction of financial crime so they have public banking. They also understand that the temptations are so great people will still try so they punish the people/crooks severely. They can do this because the people/government owns the banks, unlike here where the banks own the government. They learned from us. We could now, learn from them.
Would be interesting to see the other part of the crimes, like who exactly received the fines that were paid?
Wells Fargo utilized the classic "chiseling" technique where they would scrape off a little metal from every coin.
Wells Fargo learned it from Initech. Right there in the TPS reports.
From the silver and gold days? Sounds as if a founding philosophy (here, the grift) stayed with them the whole time, as if often does in corporations.
One must assume that for every dollar of fraud that was caught, many went (and continue) undiscovered.
The question to be asked is why anyone with needs more complex than simple household savings and checking account s and maybe a consumer CD, continues to do business with such a firm.
I’ve been told “ never buy financial instruments from banks”
Wow. I’ve had a Wells Fargo credit card for a half century and never had a complaint. I guess my transactions weren’t esoteric enough.
Look again, you may have several more without knowing !!
If you traveled to a foreign country and used the card you may have been screwed on the exchange, not a lot, but a little.
I got a check from Wells Fargo last year for almost $1000 that they said was a court ordered restitution for some shenanigans with my mortgage. I still haven't figured out what they did!
Wells has been a constant, known bad actor abusing clients for many years if not decades. My question is why any entity would keep doing business with Wells knowing that they are getting ripped off in bad faith by many devious tricks and devices? Quickest route to Wells fixing their culture is for clients en mass take their business elsewhere. There are lots of other good choices available. On the other hand, if clients think that the benefits of Wells banking balances getting ripped off then that is the bargain they make with full knowledge of likely consequences.
I’d love to hear about “good choices” for people not wanting their money to be invested in Israel’s genocide or other evil deeds. We’re looking to leave Chase but are stumped as to whether ANY bank anywhere is not doing what it’s doing (ie: investing in Elbit Systems).
You forgot to mention Wells Fargo's role in countless money laundering schemes for the drug cartels...
I wonder how much of those fines ever made it to the victims, after the proceeds passed through the federal agencies and the NGO and non-profit "middle men." It was a revelation to learn that that money doesn't go to the US Treasury, but is distributed by the agencies. What could go wrong with multi-billions being distributed with minimal oversight?