Having lived in the Midwest my entire life, I find myself with a completely different read on the situation. I actually think a sour dose of Midwest humility is is exactly what the rest of the US needs. Force the Rachel Maddows and Twitter divas of the world to sit down and hear, maybe for the first time in their lives, that they aren't nearly as important as they think they are. "You're not special, and that's okay. Most people aren't, and if you think you're the exception you're probably not."
You're not on a holy crusade, you're not saving the world. You're just another yutz with an opinion, who happens to have a larger than average audience. You're not automatically right just because you claim the backing of divine mandate/the right side of history/The Science™. Get a grip, eat some humble pie, and check yourself before you wreck yourself and the rest of us along with you.
Now, two caveats to that. First I wasn't around in the heyday of Vonnegut. Maybe his message was the one that was needed back then. Second, what I'm talking about here is entirely different from the right to a minority on politics or religion or whatever else. By all means, be a rebel, just recognize that you could be wrong.
So true. The Midwest bashing reminds me of when Andy Kaufman went down to Tennessee to wrestle Jerry Lawler. What Andy told the crowd . . .hhaha ahahahah ahahah.
13 years before a mature, sequined Elvis played to sold-out shows in Las Vegas, he played some concerts there in 1956 when he was less polished and in his rawest form. One reviewer likened it to being like "a jug of corn liquor at a champagne party."
That’s a pretty good image! Not bad for a plodding mid-western dim bulb hacking a sentence out word by word. I wonder if he had to use the dictionary or thesaurus? “Champagne” isn’t even English. It’s French! How’d he do that by himself? Somebody from New York must have given him advice.
From Wikipedia:
“Kaufman taunted the residents of Memphis by playing "videos showing residents how to use soap" and proclaiming the city to be "the nation's redneck capital".[20]“
He was absolutely hilarious. In some respects he invented LARPing.
I read Harrison Bergeron in middle school and it always occupied a space in the back of my mind. I often thought about it when stories came around of standards being lowered. I recently read it again and it’s more than a little scary.
Diana Moon Glampers would have made some excellent TikTok videos.
Every conversation is great, but you guys surpassed yourselves on this one. Your fans can't live without you. I mentioned this in the other comments but for those interested in Walter's comments re the evil eye, there's a very good book on this subject, including pagan, Jewish, and especially Christian traditions written by an Eastern Orthox priest Fr George Aquaro. Title: "Death by Envy"
I too have loved Vonnegut since I was about 13 and cherish his books like old friends. The only thing I would add with Harrison, which probably would have seemed obvious at the time, is his übermensch presence: he is the ultimate realization of Nietzsche's concept, the great man, the super human who rises above mere mortals and drags humanity to a higher plane. Having Diana Moon Glampers blast him with a shotgun is the perfect illustration of what 50's America thought of the Nietzschean Superman. This paranoia was only ramped up further as the 60's rolled on: "step out of line, the man come and take you away."
I'm not a comment guy for a couple good reasons to include I can't imagine I have much to add to what you already write so well. I get your newsletter for your writing.
This will be my only comment before I vanish back into the anonynmous internet ether where I belong.
I just want to thank you for adding your conversations with Walter Kirn to "The Racket." As good as you both are, you're unbelievable together. The Friday "America this Week" has become the highpoint of my week, which means you're either very good, or I have no life. Probably a little of both.
I also really, really appreciate that you have separated out your book reviews with him along with your writing on writing from the daily news stuff. I love your big picture global stories on things like military spending, Wallstreet, The Twitter Files, The source of the lab leak, etc", but actively avoid the daily stuff.
This has nothing to do with your writing, which is excellent. It's about a decision I made some time back about what I will allow in my life. In the past I had to guess from the lede if it was something I wanted to read. Now you've made it easy peasy. Thanks for that.
I love the book/short story discussions. Do they say what they will be talking about the next week? I’d love to read these stories before they discuss them instead of after.
The mention of “Invasion of the BodySnatchers” reminded me again of this passage from Robert Heinlein’s 1951 novel THE PUPPET MASTERS, which reminded me of the Taibbi/Shellenberger appearance before the House. The protagonist has been requested to testify before a joint session of Congress:
The head of our bio lab testified, then I found myself called to the stand. I gave my name, address, and occupation, then perfunctorily was asked a number of questions, about my experiences under the titans. The questions were read from a sheet and the chairman obviously was not familiar with them.
The thing that got me was that they did not want to hear. Two of them were reading newspapers. There were only two questions from the floor. One senator said to me, "Mr. Nivens—your name is Nivens?" I agreed that it was.
"Mr. Nivens," he went on, "you say that you are an investigator?"
"Yes."
"F.B.I., no doubt?" "No, my chief reports directly to the President."
The senator smiled. " Just as I thought. Now Mr. Nivens, you say you are an investigator—but as a matter of fact you are an actor, are you not?"
He seemed to be consulting notes. I tried to tell too much truth. I wanted to say that I had once acted one season of summer stock but that I was, nevertheless, a real, live, sure-enough investigator. I got no chance.
"That will do, Mr. Nivens. Thank you." The other question was put to me by an elderly senator whose name I should have known. He wanted to know my views on using tax money to arm other countries—and he used the question to express his own views. My views on that subject are cloudy but it did not matter as I did not get to express them.
The next thing I knew the clerk was saying, "Stand down, Mr. Nivens."
Read Vonnegut starting at the age of 14; my father's (so it goes) greatest gift to me was encouraging my reading.
But this isn't about the story, this is about you. Your ability to write without investment in persuading, present without defensiveness, just say what's so from your observation and perspective is what keeps me reading. Yeah I've said it before, but it's been a few months, so saying it again.
About the story, the take of niceness as the undergirding for handicapping is new, and thoughtful. Thanks for that. I don't buy it as cause (agreeing with another commenter that true niceness stems from humility), but see niceness used as a cugel by the nefarious. Whose drive for "equity" is actually rage against life itself that can never be satiated because life is not and can never be equitable.
And as others have said loving these book discussions overall. Thank you.
"The people who were had to walk around with weights around their necks. They had internal mechanisms that made their brains blast really unpleasant noises if they were smarter than other people and were tempted to have thoughts that raced them ahead of others."
Read "Beggars in Spain" by Nancy Kress. I think this is a more realistic possibility than is egalitarianism by hobbling those with greater personal capability and traits (although, this is exactly what the woke grievance ideology is attempting to accomplish).
In the book, one of the main characters, Leisha Camden is a genetically engineered as ‘Sleepless.’
Her ability to stay awake all the time has not only made her more productive, but the genetic modifications have also given the ‘Sleepless’ a higher IQ and may even make them immortal.
The genetic modifications are done in vitro and the fetus is thus endowed with these greater capabilities. The process is very expensive and only the wealthy can afford it. So the elite perpetuate the advantage of the elite. The egalitarian aspect is that their higher productivity allows them to satisfy the basic human needs of everyone else.
This is a model for what we see happening today. The well-educated spawn the well-educated that work in professional class roles and develop new technology like AI, and middle and lower-class opportunity for independence fades away to be replaced with cries for Universal Basic Income.
Those pushing collective egalitarianism almost always do so with the feeling of security that there will be a two-tier system of privileged elites and the rest... and they will be part of the former. They are progressively more supported by those that cannot make a good enough living and desire more money from government to make ends meet.
The problem, as always, is that these schemes fail from the fatal flaw of "to those that cannot from those that can" degrading to "to those that do, to those that don't"... and the system crashes from running out of other people's money.
I love the literary discussions. I used to be a high school teacher and I taught Harrison Bergeron every single year as part of my dystopia unit. Always one of the best lessons and class discussions of the year. I wonder now if I'd even be able to teach this anymore, which is sad. I always read the story as a defense of "classic liberalism," but I love reading your examples of how it could be anti-commu ist, anti-banal, etc. As only good literature can let us do!
A dystopia unit??? I wish to have attended that school, but I am old, and "wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled." I think you made this up, Bonjour, but bless you, and keep up the good work.
I read Vonnegut back in the 70's and loved him. I remember Kilgore Trout saying that he thought he might be a character in a book. Since I was probably high when I read it, I wondered if, perhaps, I was too!
Like many, Vonnegut was one of my favorite authors in college (possibly because a professor I distrusted disparaged him). I loved his short stories like Harrison Bergeron partly because I could sit down and read a short story all at once and get the full effect. I had trouble putting down novels, which "wasted" weekends (and didn't help my chemistry grades).
Always liked Slaughterhouse Five (and the movie). Billy Pilgrim, the accessible everyman, becoming unstuck in time (which his family and friends would just have to accept and say "He's gone again"), would relive the good and horrific times of his life, intensely, repeatedly. A longer much richer life in a way.
Now of course Big Pharma has some great drugs to get a person like that stuck back in time "where he belongs".
I believe that the passage you instance from "Master and Margarita" describes Satan's comic henchman Koroviev/Fagot and not Satan himself. Satan had quite a coterie, including a character who switched between the form of a human and that of a giant black cat (Begemot), a vampiress (Gella), and a pitiless fiend (Azazello). Fun fact that many don't know: Marianne Faithfull was a huge fan of the book and pushed it on Mick, providing the inspiration for "Sympathy for the Devil."
Yes, behemoth is "begemot" in Russian. Russian turns the foreign "h" to a "g" sound. I believe it's the same thing with Gella--"Miss Hell." BTW, Koroviev's nickname "Fagot" comes from the Russian word for bassoon and Azazello comes from the Hebrew term for the Biblical scapegoat.
Having lived in the Midwest my entire life, I find myself with a completely different read on the situation. I actually think a sour dose of Midwest humility is is exactly what the rest of the US needs. Force the Rachel Maddows and Twitter divas of the world to sit down and hear, maybe for the first time in their lives, that they aren't nearly as important as they think they are. "You're not special, and that's okay. Most people aren't, and if you think you're the exception you're probably not."
You're not on a holy crusade, you're not saving the world. You're just another yutz with an opinion, who happens to have a larger than average audience. You're not automatically right just because you claim the backing of divine mandate/the right side of history/The Science™. Get a grip, eat some humble pie, and check yourself before you wreck yourself and the rest of us along with you.
Now, two caveats to that. First I wasn't around in the heyday of Vonnegut. Maybe his message was the one that was needed back then. Second, what I'm talking about here is entirely different from the right to a minority on politics or religion or whatever else. By all means, be a rebel, just recognize that you could be wrong.
So true. The Midwest bashing reminds me of when Andy Kaufman went down to Tennessee to wrestle Jerry Lawler. What Andy told the crowd . . .hhaha ahahahah ahahah.
It’s on Youtube.
13 years before a mature, sequined Elvis played to sold-out shows in Las Vegas, he played some concerts there in 1956 when he was less polished and in his rawest form. One reviewer likened it to being like "a jug of corn liquor at a champagne party."
That’s a pretty good image! Not bad for a plodding mid-western dim bulb hacking a sentence out word by word. I wonder if he had to use the dictionary or thesaurus? “Champagne” isn’t even English. It’s French! How’d he do that by himself? Somebody from New York must have given him advice.
From Wikipedia:
“Kaufman taunted the residents of Memphis by playing "videos showing residents how to use soap" and proclaiming the city to be "the nation's redneck capital".[20]“
He was absolutely hilarious. In some respects he invented LARPing.
I'm pretty sure it was one of the New York reviewers; definitely sounds like it!
Kaufman definitely was one of the original, supreme trolls, wasn't he? ;)
BRAVO, Bob. Well said.
Charlie Berens- Manitowoc Minute.
Well said!!!
I'm am really enjoying these book discussions. Thank you.
I read Harrison Bergeron in middle school and it always occupied a space in the back of my mind. I often thought about it when stories came around of standards being lowered. I recently read it again and it’s more than a little scary.
Diana Moon Glampers would have made some excellent TikTok videos.
Every conversation is great, but you guys surpassed yourselves on this one. Your fans can't live without you. I mentioned this in the other comments but for those interested in Walter's comments re the evil eye, there's a very good book on this subject, including pagan, Jewish, and especially Christian traditions written by an Eastern Orthox priest Fr George Aquaro. Title: "Death by Envy"
I spent about a year in NZ and discovered what they call “tall poppy syndrome”.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
Oh yes! Lived in Australia for a while, same as "the nail that stands up gets hammered down".
I too have loved Vonnegut since I was about 13 and cherish his books like old friends. The only thing I would add with Harrison, which probably would have seemed obvious at the time, is his übermensch presence: he is the ultimate realization of Nietzsche's concept, the great man, the super human who rises above mere mortals and drags humanity to a higher plane. Having Diana Moon Glampers blast him with a shotgun is the perfect illustration of what 50's America thought of the Nietzschean Superman. This paranoia was only ramped up further as the 60's rolled on: "step out of line, the man come and take you away."
Brilliant conversation as always.
I'm not a comment guy for a couple good reasons to include I can't imagine I have much to add to what you already write so well. I get your newsletter for your writing.
This will be my only comment before I vanish back into the anonynmous internet ether where I belong.
I just want to thank you for adding your conversations with Walter Kirn to "The Racket." As good as you both are, you're unbelievable together. The Friday "America this Week" has become the highpoint of my week, which means you're either very good, or I have no life. Probably a little of both.
I also really, really appreciate that you have separated out your book reviews with him along with your writing on writing from the daily news stuff. I love your big picture global stories on things like military spending, Wallstreet, The Twitter Files, The source of the lab leak, etc", but actively avoid the daily stuff.
This has nothing to do with your writing, which is excellent. It's about a decision I made some time back about what I will allow in my life. In the past I had to guess from the lede if it was something I wanted to read. Now you've made it easy peasy. Thanks for that.
Sub man glad you came in from ethernet and posted
I love the book/short story discussions. Do they say what they will be talking about the next week? I’d love to read these stories before they discuss them instead of after.
Highly recommend 2081, a short film about Harrison Bergeron and the handicapper general aka DIE/ESG commissar: https://www.teaching2081.org/
Wouldn't be eligible for an academy award under the new rules.
Just wanted to thank you for the link
Thanks
The mention of “Invasion of the BodySnatchers” reminded me again of this passage from Robert Heinlein’s 1951 novel THE PUPPET MASTERS, which reminded me of the Taibbi/Shellenberger appearance before the House. The protagonist has been requested to testify before a joint session of Congress:
The head of our bio lab testified, then I found myself called to the stand. I gave my name, address, and occupation, then perfunctorily was asked a number of questions, about my experiences under the titans. The questions were read from a sheet and the chairman obviously was not familiar with them.
The thing that got me was that they did not want to hear. Two of them were reading newspapers. There were only two questions from the floor. One senator said to me, "Mr. Nivens—your name is Nivens?" I agreed that it was.
"Mr. Nivens," he went on, "you say that you are an investigator?"
"Yes."
"F.B.I., no doubt?" "No, my chief reports directly to the President."
The senator smiled. " Just as I thought. Now Mr. Nivens, you say you are an investigator—but as a matter of fact you are an actor, are you not?"
He seemed to be consulting notes. I tried to tell too much truth. I wanted to say that I had once acted one season of summer stock but that I was, nevertheless, a real, live, sure-enough investigator. I got no chance.
"That will do, Mr. Nivens. Thank you." The other question was put to me by an elderly senator whose name I should have known. He wanted to know my views on using tax money to arm other countries—and he used the question to express his own views. My views on that subject are cloudy but it did not matter as I did not get to express them.
The next thing I knew the clerk was saying, "Stand down, Mr. Nivens."
Damn that's amazing.
Our Congress only believe and stress the official narrative of the day = no individuals there.
And it seems it’s always been that way.
Read Vonnegut starting at the age of 14; my father's (so it goes) greatest gift to me was encouraging my reading.
But this isn't about the story, this is about you. Your ability to write without investment in persuading, present without defensiveness, just say what's so from your observation and perspective is what keeps me reading. Yeah I've said it before, but it's been a few months, so saying it again.
About the story, the take of niceness as the undergirding for handicapping is new, and thoughtful. Thanks for that. I don't buy it as cause (agreeing with another commenter that true niceness stems from humility), but see niceness used as a cugel by the nefarious. Whose drive for "equity" is actually rage against life itself that can never be satiated because life is not and can never be equitable.
And as others have said loving these book discussions overall. Thank you.
"The people who were had to walk around with weights around their necks. They had internal mechanisms that made their brains blast really unpleasant noises if they were smarter than other people and were tempted to have thoughts that raced them ahead of others."
Read "Beggars in Spain" by Nancy Kress. I think this is a more realistic possibility than is egalitarianism by hobbling those with greater personal capability and traits (although, this is exactly what the woke grievance ideology is attempting to accomplish).
In the book, one of the main characters, Leisha Camden is a genetically engineered as ‘Sleepless.’
Her ability to stay awake all the time has not only made her more productive, but the genetic modifications have also given the ‘Sleepless’ a higher IQ and may even make them immortal.
The genetic modifications are done in vitro and the fetus is thus endowed with these greater capabilities. The process is very expensive and only the wealthy can afford it. So the elite perpetuate the advantage of the elite. The egalitarian aspect is that their higher productivity allows them to satisfy the basic human needs of everyone else.
This is a model for what we see happening today. The well-educated spawn the well-educated that work in professional class roles and develop new technology like AI, and middle and lower-class opportunity for independence fades away to be replaced with cries for Universal Basic Income.
Those pushing collective egalitarianism almost always do so with the feeling of security that there will be a two-tier system of privileged elites and the rest... and they will be part of the former. They are progressively more supported by those that cannot make a good enough living and desire more money from government to make ends meet.
The problem, as always, is that these schemes fail from the fatal flaw of "to those that cannot from those that can" degrading to "to those that do, to those that don't"... and the system crashes from running out of other people's money.
I love the literary discussions. I used to be a high school teacher and I taught Harrison Bergeron every single year as part of my dystopia unit. Always one of the best lessons and class discussions of the year. I wonder now if I'd even be able to teach this anymore, which is sad. I always read the story as a defense of "classic liberalism," but I love reading your examples of how it could be anti-commu ist, anti-banal, etc. As only good literature can let us do!
A dystopia unit??? I wish to have attended that school, but I am old, and "wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled." I think you made this up, Bonjour, but bless you, and keep up the good work.
I now see this story as anti ESG, DEI, and CRT. All of which demand a smothering of success by unflavored groups.
I read Vonnegut back in the 70's and loved him. I remember Kilgore Trout saying that he thought he might be a character in a book. Since I was probably high when I read it, I wondered if, perhaps, I was too!
Maybe we're all characters in one of the astral plane's reality shows. Or maybe we're starring in a stupid pet video.
Like many, Vonnegut was one of my favorite authors in college (possibly because a professor I distrusted disparaged him). I loved his short stories like Harrison Bergeron partly because I could sit down and read a short story all at once and get the full effect. I had trouble putting down novels, which "wasted" weekends (and didn't help my chemistry grades).
Always liked Slaughterhouse Five (and the movie). Billy Pilgrim, the accessible everyman, becoming unstuck in time (which his family and friends would just have to accept and say "He's gone again"), would relive the good and horrific times of his life, intensely, repeatedly. A longer much richer life in a way.
Now of course Big Pharma has some great drugs to get a person like that stuck back in time "where he belongs".
I believe that the passage you instance from "Master and Margarita" describes Satan's comic henchman Koroviev/Fagot and not Satan himself. Satan had quite a coterie, including a character who switched between the form of a human and that of a giant black cat (Begemot), a vampiress (Gella), and a pitiless fiend (Azazello). Fun fact that many don't know: Marianne Faithfull was a huge fan of the book and pushed it on Mick, providing the inspiration for "Sympathy for the Devil."
My translation refers to the cat as "Behemoth," which appears to be a direct translation from Russian. So, thanks for the additional info. 😀
Yes, behemoth is "begemot" in Russian. Russian turns the foreign "h" to a "g" sound. I believe it's the same thing with Gella--"Miss Hell." BTW, Koroviev's nickname "Fagot" comes from the Russian word for bassoon and Azazello comes from the Hebrew term for the Biblical scapegoat.
I recognized Azazello, but didn't know Fagot. Thanks again!