Despite court rulings, the Trump Administration shows no interest in helping Abrego Garcia return to the U.S.; El Salvador's president calls releasing him "preposterous"
“Abrego-Garcia left El Salvador and illegally entered the U.S. in 2011.”
Illegal aliens are criminals because they broke the law - 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - when entering America. That is not a good way to begin a path to citizenship by breaking America’s immigration laws and there are ways to citizenship – just ask all of the many legal immigrants who came here legally.
We now have countless angel families who have suffered the loss or harm of a loved one committed by an illegal alien for decades now– aliens who should never have been here in the first place.
Thank you. The story should end after your first sentence. But this is another case of activist judges trying to thwart the president. As for horrible prisons, imagine the horrible prison of pain of family members whose children were brutalized and killed by illegals. Maybe Matt can do a historical chronology of their stories.
This fellow is not a criminal. He was mistakenly arrested. Rather harsh consequence for someone who is legally in the US. Why conflate his arrest with actual criminals?
He’s a citizen of El Salvador, who has been twice ordered by immigration judges to be deported. I highly recommend you listen to the entire Oval Office meeting with Pam Bondi, Stephen Miller, Bukele and others. It completely changed my mind.
Let’s cut the shit. He, along with millions of other’s entered the country illegally. That’s documented. He’s a criminal. That his stay here, along with millions of others, has been facilitated by a traitorous band of power craving leftists, Marxist, elitist, globalist, assholes bent on replacing the American republic with their own authoritarian state designed to keep them in power, comfort and ease at the expense of their own useful idiot base as well as those of us who oppose their plans, is also criminal. Sorry for the run on sentence but it needed to be said. This is a war for America. We can deport illegals and prosecute those who have broken the law to bring this about, and thus perhaps redeem our country. The alternative to not doing this will be extremely bad and will result in way more misery and suffering. Stop cutting these monsters hell bent on destroying our country any slack! Stop trying to deal with a cabal that is intent on implementing their nefarious plans!! Any compromise with them is merely a tactic they will use against you as they play their evil long game!!!
The country of El Salvador believes that he is a member of a criminal gang. They know his history before he ever came to the USA. We of course choose to ignore all history once a person crosses our southern border, but the world does not forget. Joining criminal gangs has consequences.
Yes, the Texas measles outbreak originated from a Mennonite community. It’s the multi-state drug resistant tuberculosis epidemics that originated from the immigrant communities.
I'd like to see un-retouched photos of his entire face and neck and look for gang tattoos. If he has them, that would be evidence that he is, indeed, a gang member, and which gang he belongs to.
he was not mistakenly arrested. The administrative "mistake" averred to is in deporting him to El Salvador rather than another country. When people make a case for being in danger in their country of origin, they are to be deported elsewhere.
They were looking for someone else and when told it wasn’t the right guy some asshole ice agent said” take him anyway”. So we now are a country being preyed on by secret police who don’t obey laws and who follow made up degrees which also are not lawful.
And the grounds for which he was supposed to be sent somewhere other than El Salvador are no longer valid. He claimed his life was in danger from another gang that no longer exists in El Salvador.
I have read that also, but not researched it. If true, which seems very possible, I think that determination would have to come from the same court that ruled he couldn't be deported to El Salvador. That part of this case, i think would require ICE/Trump Admin to file with a court asking to have the no-El-Salvador requirement removed.
Trump’s administration paid El Salvador $6 million to imprison for a year around 300 alleged members of the Tren de Aragua gang. Garcia will be out in a year. It was a business deal. I doubt they will continue holding him and others without additional pay.
He became a criminal when he entered the country illegally. That’s a given. He has been repatriated. Should he be held in prison in El Salvador, I don’t know because I don’t know if he’s a gang member or not. How do you know he’s not a gang member that’s committed crimes?
The huge irony is that many of Matt's paid subscribers initially signed up when they were exposing the Twitter Files. I.e., calling out the government-silicon valley-media partnership on censorship. Now that the laurels have changed and Red Team (or Orange Team) are back in power, they're just fine with the censorship, lack of due process, and have begun to openly cheer it on.
I’m still not fine with any censorship; or any denial of constitutional due process for American citizens. I’m also against any torture from any American level of government or military against anyone, citizen or not.
And how do you feel about fully intact, rapist males being allowed in female prisons? Are you ok with this human rights violation being implemented in the law by democrats?
I'm a grown-up, so all the issues don't have to line up 100 percent black and white 100 percent on one side or the other. I don't like the issue you mention either but it pales in comparison to what's going on right now.
Sorry you are disappointed. Perhaps you can enlighten us with a level of intelligence and political awareness that would justify an open border that has allowed millions of migrants into the country illegally, at enormous expense to the public treasury, aided by the previous executive who refused to execute the relevant laws faithfully. What is the benefit to the United States, that justifies all the illegality and cost required to effectuate this program? What is your argument? Convince us? I for one would like to benefit from your elevated level of intelligence and political awareness and acumen.
Wait till there's no one to pick the harvest. There's your benefit right there. The fact remains undocumented immigrants do certain jobs Americans don't want to do, and they do it for very low wages. They pay into Social Security without receiving it.
Really? I’ve picked various fruits as my sole income source at an earlier point in my life. Something about paying for food sharpens your mind and motivation tremendously. Also I’ve always refused to accept any form of welfare because something of about self respect and dignity.
So you’re part of the crowd that wants them here to pick crops, clean hotel rooms etc? Or as Jasmine Crockett says, to “pick cotton”? How does one pay into Social Security without a (legitimate) Social Security number?
How do they pay into Social Security? You would need a work authorization and an SSN, meaning this person is no longer an “illegal”, but is lawfully here.
Ugly right wing crowd here. I came to check this chat expecting people to be alert to the injustice of sending ANYONE to that fucking prison. It was a not a good idea. I'm done with Racket chats.
The comments have indeed become disheartening. But I try to remember why I subscribed in the first place - I have a great deal of respect for Taibbi's reporting.
I used to, but I cannot understand his 180. I read _The Great Derangement_ long before Trump or Substack. At this point I don't care who in this comment section doesn't like my saying that. I'm out of here as soon as my current subscription is up and if they want to kick me off before that bring it on. I didn't just like Matt because of the 2008 financial crisis reporting. Seems like I read _The Great Derangement_ before that (it was published in 2008).
Unfortunately, there is a newer book with the same name published in 2016, which gets confusing. But anyway, I was a Taibbi reader even before "Vampire Squid" which I guess is neither here nor there but I do not understand his 180 even if some annoying things happen on the left. I am annoyed at things on the left also but what's going on right now seems so much weightier right now.
I don't care who doesn't like my saying that. I'm not some far lefty. I can't stop right-wingers and smart people who have done inexplicable 180's from painting me as a far lefty who is in agreement with every stupid thing the left pulls. I don't like cancel culture. I like and read several prominent content providers who have gotten cancelled and don't go along with the cancelling. I am not crazy about blue-haired wokescolds etc. etc.
But that stuff in my opinion pales in comparison with what's going on right now and seems so much weighter. I don't care who doesn't like my saying that.
Tell us about Armando's history. What knowledge do you have of any criminal behavior in El Salvador? Upstanding citizen? Criminal?
Let's say it's the former. Why come to the US illegally?
As with many illegal aliens, our border/immigration policies have no way to run effective background checks to validate what they are told at the border or in court.
"Why come to the US illegally?" -- I read in another article that at the time he entered the US he was fleeing the horrors of what El Salvador was back then.
Could be. So why not stop in Mexico, build a life, apply for asylum in the US? As is international law. Why ignore order to leave the US? He had the chance to do this and didn't.
Honestly it doesn’t matter why he chose to leave El Salvador, if he was seeking asylum in the US, there is a process for that which he apparently chose to circumvent and thus entered the country illegally.
Just teach them to say "fleeing the horrors" (en espanol) when they are caught after entering illegally and suddenly they will find themselves on the righteous path to asylum.
I'm leaving! No, I really mean it this time! I'm warning you, I won't tell you again, I'm outta here! Damnit, why do you do this, I mean it, I'm going!
He is 100% a criminal. He was mistakenly sent to EL SALVADOR when the text of his VALID DEPORTATION ORDER said he shouldn't be sent to El Salvador. That's the extent of the mistake.
he absolutely was, that is on record and widely reported. If you're only consuming legacy media, you're being gaslighted.
.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Abrego-Garcia in 2019 as he was looking for day labor outside a Home Depot in Maryland. A police informant told police Abrego Garcia was an MS-13 member. Immigration judges denied Abrego Garcia bond, both initially and on appeal, citing the informant’s accusation. In the order denying bond, the judge said the determination of Abrego Garcia’s gang membership "appears to be trustworthy and is supported" by evidence from the Gang Field Interview Sheet. This ruling was upheld on appeal. The order barred him from being deported to El Salvador however, due to concerns about gang reprisals against MS-13 members in that nation.
.
see point 5 of this affidavit from the Acting Counsel of the Department of Homeland Security
The "accuser" said he was an MS-13 gang member in New York. Abrego-Garcia had never even been to New York and had never met the accuser or anyone in that person's circle. It was double hearsay, and I don't get ANY of my information from legacy (including right-wing) media.
It's amazing to me how so many of you are willing to immediately take this administration's completely shoddy accusations as fact, and then go out and try to burnish the lies with agreeing media. These, and the pro-Palestinian students, are just test cases. Trump has already said he would be looking for the first American citizens (home grown) to deport as a next matter of course.
Can you cite sources for that? As I understand it, he was only suspected of being in a gang because of his tattoos, which DHS mistakenly interpreted as gang-related, but they're not.
No, TeeJae. I'm sorry. I wake up and cruise all over the Internet, and I don't always remember where I read something, when I read something else about it later in the day. I read that they were basing it on his attire, though there was also something about an informant, who maybe didn’t like him.
I don’t really know, TeeJae. I have a lot of questions about this case, and I think people on both sides are missing something.
If the order to hold off on deportation was based on the contention that he would be at risk in El Salvador from rival gangs, then maybe he was supposed to have been sent to a friendly country that would take him.
Even if he is returned here, I don’t see any path forward in which he is allowed to remain, because, whether he was in MS 13 or not, he still entered the country illegally, so he can be deported.
I think Trump Admin people are being a bit disingenuous, & twisting some of the facts, but I suspect that people on the other side may be portraying him as being more virtuous than he actually is.
I appreciate your honesty. And I agree there seems to be more to this story. I guess we just watch and wait for the facts to emerge... as they always eventually do.
So this guy broke the law when he illegally entered the country in 2011.
So how has he been eating, living someplace, for the last what 14 years? What social net funds was he accessing in that time, fraudulently. Whose social security number was he using?
If they are forced to bring him back here it should be straight to a court of law, preferably in a red state where he will be convicted and deported.
TeeJae, he came in illegally. Meaning he did not come through a point of entry asking for asylum. He stood before 2 judges who ruled he was a a) MS-13 gang member and b) reportable. O e judge ruled he was withheld from deportation due to danger in his own country. From a rival gang in El Salvador. He had his due process.
Biden allowed in millions hundreds of thousands using the same ip address on application, thousands of sponsors using the same address, clearly fraudulent mass importation and yet Trump has to give each individual a personal hearing. It would take decades. Which is the point isn't it.
The Cloward and Priven strategy to bring down the country, overwhelm the system, using the system has nearly done it.
"2 judges who ruled he was a a) MS-13 gang member" -- He was "determined" to be a gang member based on very dubious and circumstantial evidence.
"He had his due process." -- His right to habeas corpus was violated for this recent accusation by the Trump Admin before being whisked away to El Salvador.
To be clear, the 'due process' argument is only for those whom this Admin is sending to prison. What it SHOULD be doing is simply returning illegal immigrants to their home countries, in which case, no due process is necessary.
Remote hearings by zoom from El Salvador. That’s what nearly every court did during COVID. If it’s good enough for our citizens, it’s good enough for him.
The guest author of this post has not reported all of the facts. I have come to expect better of Matt. Please see the Declaration (under penalty of perjury) of attorney Joseph N. Mazzara, April 14, 2025.
Damn. Can’t remove a gang member because of gangs. Kind of a double bind situation. Let’s send him to Martha’s Vineyard, I hear they don’t have a gang problem there.
The real story is that American is a country ruled by laws, not men. This is one of the key principles that made American great and, if honored, will help ensure that America will be great again.
Abrego-Garcia was provided legal status that Trump Administration ignored. The Trump Administration also ignored his right under the U.S. Constitution to due process.
That's our country's highest law, treated like so much toilet paper.
Now our President smirks and pretends at helplessness in defiance to our courts.
Abrego-Garcia may or may not be a thug, a gang member, a hard-working family man or even a terrorist. I don't know and neither do you. There seems to be no question that he initially came to the U.S. illegally.
None of that changes his rights under the U.S. law or the U.S. constitution.
The ends do not justify the means. Hopefully you can see the importance of this case. If it's difficult, then imagine for a moment that the government (President Harris' administration in 2029) has wrongfully accused you or someone you know of being an illegal immigrant and a terrorist. Would you like your constitutional rights to be observed before you are deported?
"The real story is that America[n] is a country ruled by laws, not men." Yes, I agree. And Abrego-Garcia, a citizen of El Salvador, and not the US, disregarded America’s immigration laws when he illegally entered in 2011. He broke the law; he is a criminal. How does a criminal get legal status, when one of the requirements to become a citizen is to be of good moral character?
But, my main point is that the focus/concern is on an illegal alien who broke America's laws by entering illegally, yet no one cares about all of the innocent American citizens who have been harmed by illegal aliens - who should never have been here in the first place.
The law is very clear:
U.S.C. § 1325 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 8. Aliens and Nationality § 1325. Improper entry by alien
(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
Your focus on Abrego-Garcia's status as an "illegal alien" skips over an important step--who gets to decide his status before he's deported?
Not you or me. We might have a sense of certainty about him, but anyone is capable of making a mistake.
So the decision of legal status is entrusted to the federal courts under Article III, United States Constitution.
The right to a hearing is a safeguard that the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized-- even for illegal aliens. This "interference," as other commentators have referred to it, serves a practical function: ensuring that U.S. Citizens and others with protected legal status aren't mistakenly deported.
Don't begrudge the illegal immigrant his opportunity for a hearing. Your freedom and mine ultimately depend on the same principle.
He had a hearing in 2019 in which he was adjudicated an MS-13 member subject to deportation (except not to El Salvador); appealed that; the original immigration judge was upheld. He received due process. See some of the filings not furnished by guest poster Greg. See ShipWreckedCrew's coverage at his substack.
Hmmm. Greg's write-up included the 2019 proceeding: "Abrego Garcia fought the accusation and applied for asylum. Instead, an immigration judge granted him 'withholding of removal' status."
This jives with the ICE's and the DOJ's acknowledgment that an "administrative error" had been made in deporting him 6 years later.
A federal court has preliminarily determined that Abrego-Garcia was deported "In violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act…and without any legal process." The decision went all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court and was upheld at every step.
Without wading further into the reported facts of the case, it doesn't sound like Abrego-Garcia got the process he was entitled to. If he did, then great, the U.S. government can demonstrate that in the pending lawsuit; let the courts sort it out like they are supposed to.
None of this changes my point that due process matters. I have no problem whatsoever with the U.S. deporting illegal immigrants. Just don't tread on the U.S Constitution in doing so.
Apparently, like Trump, many Americans are ignorant of the fact that constitutional due process applies to everyone within our borders- even illegal aliens. Maybe they are willfully ignorant that statutory laws or other government action is unenforceable when unconstitutional.
The fact that illegal aliens are entitled to due process is apparent simply by asking Google. In a few seconds it will refer you to the Supreme Court cases stating this. For instance, Congress’s own website acknowledges this:
“Despite the government’s broad power over immigration, the Supreme Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the United States generally come under the protective scope of the Due Process Clause, which applies to all ‘persons’ within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent.1”
The footnote cites the controlling Supreme Court cases.
Fundamental to critical thinking is doing your research before expressing ignorant opinions.
I understand your point of how important due process is, but that first action Garcia made started the chain reaction because he made himself a criminal. He did that; not the US.
Ludecke v Watkins. Read it. Abrego had two hearings. Removal orders of an illegal do not violate the Bill of Rights and and are not subject to judicial review.
"no one cares about all of the innocent American citizens who have been harmed by illegal aliens" -- Red herring. Of course we care. But Garcia did not harm anyone.
Yes, he entered illegally. No one's arguing that. But he was granted legal status in 2019 under 'withholding of removal' status. And that right there affords him constitutional protections of due process before being arbitrarily imprisoned.
The eternal sycophants like you are completely fucked in the head at this point.
The Nazi accusations were overwrought for a very long time. They aren’t anymore. The president is casually talking about sending American citizens to foreign prisons and you’re sitting there finding excuses for it. You have no principles or convictions befitting an American. You are an embarrassment and an insult to the core of the American spirit.
Everything good that made America what it was, you embody none of it. Pathetic cowards.
Well, since you launched an unprovoked attack on this person I'd like to point out that at no point did the current president discuss sending Americans to foreign jails.
And the only time citizens were rounded up and incarcerated was during the FDR (democrat) admin.
If you'd get you facts straight it would help your argument. Attacks make you sound like Maddow.
First and foremost, Abrego-Garcia was NOT an American citizen, and to use that as the basis of your (not so well thought out) rant only serves to remind me that your opinion is worthless.
Emotional hysterics such as "with liberty and justice for all" simply have no place in our new transactional republic. Obviously, gross injustice for this man due to "an administrative error" will strike fear into illegal immigrants. A sentence of five years in solitary confinement might also reduce shoplifting. Business is business.
My response was actually in reference to SVF's comment regarding sycophants, being tucked in the head, and the ever-present tell, Nazis. Which preceded and diminished the valid point about references to sending American citizens to foreign prisons.
As a legal immigrant who went through a lengthy process to gain 'resident alien' status, and then citizenship, I second that. For legal immigrants, the process starts before we ever set foot in this country. I wish journalists would report on THAT process, which sometimes takes years. No one ever talks about that. The people screeching that "No One is Illegal" never acknowledge how many people right now have been patiently waiting and diligently working through the system for however long it takes to reside here legally. That process rightfully includes being fully vetted and proving that we will not be a financial burden to US taxpayers. The pearl clutching over the deportation of people who entered illegally, or who tried to game the asylum system, or whose cases were adjudicated and denied, is beyond tiresome.
If he was, indeed, an innocent asylum seeker running from a gang, he could've applied legally at the border in 2011. But he only applied for asylum when facing deportation for an alleged membership in a gang, but wasn't granted it. Gang members aren't eligible.
ENOUGH!! Stop pandering to this “Maryland father”. He broke our laws by crossing that border. In any other country this is as clear cut as the day is long they ship you out. I don’t understand for the life of me how this is even being debated. The courts are wrong as the first item should be “crossed the border illegally”. When are the courts going to protect its citizens and stop being political activists. This is a 90/10 issue and if the left wants to die on this hill I say let them. If I do something illegal I doubt I’d get the support of some judge and I’m a blue blooded American with 7 generations behind me. Let’s protect us for once. Jeezus.
It is being debated because he is accused of being a terrorist, not simply someone who crossed the border illegally 14 years ago and has apparently not committed any crime since then. Also, rightly or wrongly, he's been under a judge's protective order since 2019. The problem here seems to me that Trump and everyone who works for him simply can't admit that they made a mistake. "We made an error but there's nothing we can do about it now" is really feeble. Due process matters more than Trump's hurt pride.
What everyone fails to understand is when you are not a citizen you don’t get to receive the rights guaranteed to citizens. Due process is not a guarantee for an illegal alien. Let alone someone labeled a domestic terrorist which allows swift actions once you get apprehended. The courts have zero intervention on international law too and since this guy was a fugitive in his home country he is exactly where he is supposed to be. Read the constitution it’s not a difficult document to understand. Only American citizens are guaranteed what that document says. He should’ve been deported in 2019. He had an order before this activist judge put him under his wing. Start concerning yourself with Americans. Being patriotic and caring for you and your neighbors safety.
You are simply wrong about that. The Supreme Court has ruled that non citizens have due process rights many times. There is a Scalia quote from a while back to that effect. Even recently with alien enemies ruling they all agreed unanimously that immigrants have a right to habeas petitions before being deported.
No it doesn’t and these people aren’t even being accused of domestic terrorism. Look at alien enemies act order- actually read it. It was only issued a week or two ago
(A) In general Any alien who has engaged, is engaged, or at any time after admission engages in-
(i) any activity to violate any law of the United States relating to espionage or sabotage or to violate or evade any law prohibiting the export from the United States of goods, technology, or sensitive information,
(ii) any other criminal activity which endangers public safety or national security, or
(iii) any activity a purpose of which is the opposition to, or the control or overthrow of, the Government of the United States by force, violence, or other unlawful means,
is deportable.
(B) Terrorist activities
Any alien who is described in subparagraph (B) or (F) of section 1182(a)(3) of this title is deportable.
(C) Foreign policy
(i) In general
An alien whose presence or activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is deportable.
This is the reality. Due process means different things for different people. We don't need to convict an illegal of a crime before we throw him out. The SoS doesn't really need a valid reason to remove a non-citizen, he can just determine they're a threat and off they go.
The patirot act enacts different powers when dealing with foreign and domestic terrorists. Which MS-13 has been designated and he was surely a member of and the Sec. of State can throw anyone out of the country for any reason if they believe you are a threat to the country. Doesn’t need to prove anything. Doesn’t get due process.
There is no proof that he is an ms 13 gang member. I don’t get why this is so hard to understand. Trumps own court said he shouldn’t have been sent to El Salvador. You magas worship of Trump is just insane. He could murder your families and you would find a way to justify it.
No we are sick of the country being over run with illegal aliens and using our tax dollars while citizens of our country go hungry and veterans sleep in the street while we drown under 37 trillion in debt. SHIT NEEDED TO CHANGE AND AMERCIANS NEEDED TO BE FIRST FIR ONCE
No proof? Why did he make a claim in his asylum application adjudication that he would be attacked by another gang? Was it that they other gang didn't like his haircut?
Not accused. Determined in two hearings to be a MS-13 gangbanger. Under a removal order. Temporarily stayed because he claimed a rival gang in El Salvador wanted to kill him.
The central question then becomes, why does a non-citizen have a judge’s protective order? What makes him so special and what was the motivation and legal precedent for that order?
Because we have asylum laws in this country. Part of getting asylum is if you fear that your life is in danger in your home country. It’s supposed to be one of the things that separates us from the rest of the world.
What about the fact that they say he is a member of MS-13? If he fears for his life because of gang warfare with an enemy gang are we supposed to give him asylum? Why is Senator Von Hollen going to El Salvador to “rescue” an MS-13 Salvadoran? This stunt may backfire.
Who is they ? One person accused him of being a gang member and that person is in up state New York. He’s never even been to up state New York. “They “ could be full of shit or mixing him up with someone else. There’s a reason why we use the guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. He’s been in the country for 14 years and has no criminal record. What gang banger goes 14 years without getting arrested for even something small. You guys are all wrong on this one. Does he deserve to get deported ? I don’t think so but maybe. The point is that he deserves a fair trial to decide if he does. He sure as hell doesn’t deserve to be locked up im one of the worst prisons In the world. Can everyone put aside your political bias and just have a little bit of empathy for the guy. Sure he broke the law by coming here illegally . Like no one this forum hasn’t broken the law. I suppose you all think that the January 6 terrorist deserved to be pardoned but fuck this guy right ? The punishment does not fit the crime.
They is our government and the government of El Salvador. So what happens when El Salvador decides to do what they want to do with their own citizen. They may not let him go. This is so bizarre.
Why the crimes were not charged , his wife/girlfriend obtained not 1, but 2 orders of Protection, after he beat his wife, enough for Courts to order, he must avoid contact with her.
Moreover, Garcia admitted did not enter the US , thru a valid port of entry , which renders hin immediately deportable.
He is a criminal and as someone who entered the US illegally, it is good he was sent to his own country and let Salvador deal with him. Why does the US have to even bother dealing with this nonsense? We are using our resources and taxes for this waste of time. Keep him in Salvador. If people who knew him say he was a member of M-S13, he was probably a member and he ran away when Bukele started coming after MS-13. An Bukele has really clean up Salvador and non-criminal citizens are very happy with what Bukele has done. Just because this is being done under Trump’s term the activists are fighting. They wouldn’t have done it under Obama or Biden.
I’m shocked that people don’t see crossing the border makes someone a criminal. I wish someone would go to some other country and try that. You won’t get due process. You’ll be arrested and deported non matter what circumstances you ran from.
Once again , where is the fucking evidence?!!! The Trump admin have claimed it with no evidence!!! They have not shown any evidence. All you are doing is speculating. People can get into trouble with a gang without being part of another gang.
You know what? I don’t even give a fuck about evidence anymore. I want done whatever has to be done to right this country. If some laws are broken? Shit happens.
Actually , I am a second amendment guy. And a first amendment guy. And all the other amendments. Obviously you aren’t because you don’t believe in due process or rights. It’s all in the constitution. As far as my families safety, I’m more worried more about shit for brains ,Jan 6 lawbreaking ,date raping MAGA fuck heads who can’t think for themselves than any illegal immigrant. I live in a border town. I’ve worked side by side with immigrants. I don’t give a fuck how they got here. They have done nothing but keep their heads down and work their asses off without complaining like you MAGA snowflakes. As far as I’m concerned, they have earned the right to be here. Not like babies like you who were born here and just sit around jerking off to newsmax.
You know what happens ? You get sent back to your home country. You don’t get sent to prison for life. Classic maga. Turn the argument to Obama. That was over 10 years ago dumbass.
Oh, so a decade makes some sort of difference? Now you get it. You get sent back to your country. Getting your panties all up in a twist about a scumbag who beats his wife says all I need to know about you.
Shit for brains. I don’t care. He is a member of MS-13 and human trafficker. I hope nothing terrible ever befalls someone in your family or someone you love. It’s high time the citizens of this country came first. I’m guessing you’re not a second amendment guy either. Piss off shit for brains.
You want to talk about a guilty conscience? You are the piece of shit that thinks a guy should spend the rest of his life in prison because he came into our country illegally. Take a minute to think about that you heartless prick.
I don’t. Why don’t you head over to any country but ours and leave your passport at home and see what happens. You ignorant bleeding heart. I won’t lose a minute of sleep as Tom Homan and Kristi Noem sweep the country getting rid is those who shouldn’t be here. Also, check on Barry’s record on deportations. They once called him the deportee in chief. A refresher of history for you. Dumbass
Sorry James but you are misinformed about how things work. He is still allowed due process and 10 judges have said that. They know alot more than you or I about this.
Why would anyone advocate for keeping an illegal alien in the United States? This dude is from El Salvador. He is back where he belongs. Whether the El Salvador government decides to keep him in prison or let him roam free, that is a decision by a sovereign nation. None of our business at this point.
I highly recommend you watch the entire exchange in the Oval Office with Pam Bondi, Stephen Miller, Bukele, etc. Completely changed my mind. May change yours too.
It’s remarkable how some love the Constitution and quote it when it works for their purposes. Otherwise they’ll label it a document written by dead white men.
This is a false equivalence. Due process is not a universally defined term rather it means different things in different fields of law. But the logical conclusion of your interpretation is that all a foreigner must do is set foot on US soil and shout "Olly, olly, oxen free" to be cloaked in the accoutrements of citizenship. I understand your confusion because we were indeed subjected to that for four years under the prior "administration" but fortunately no more. As you have perhaps heard somewhere elections have co sequences. Lastly, our courts no longer have jurisdiction (the authority to act) over this man. To imply we do is to say we have power over every deported ever.
To me (an idiot on the net) 'person' in this context means citizen; otherwise why would there need be amendments that state who is a citizen?
But as you say, for the courts to decide. I, personally, do not think that just by being within the borders you sudden come under the jurisdiction *of the Constitution*; can't think of any other Western country that says you have rights under theirs while in their country. Also don't believe that was the framers intent.
That’s not correct, Enna. The government merely deferred deportation, and specifically blocked deportation to El Salvador. He came and resided here illegally (like millions of others). Ultimately this will play out in the courts and maybe we will have clearer immigration laws as a result.
So in your world asking someone for an explanation of a point they repeat without evidence is pedantic. Not sure how you manage to get any information if that’s your criterion. You relegate seeking clarity to a triviality. Got it.
His removal order had been withdrawn, but he was still an illegal alien, and had still been judged to have been a member of MS 13 by an immigration court, and by an appellate immigration court.
There were several statements yesterday that this individual was indeed part of the MS-13 gang, a fact confirmed by El Salvador as well. I believe it was 2 separate us courts as well as El Salvador that confirmed the gang activity.
We for some reason choose to believe that once a spark of humanity crosses our southern border, all history ceases to be. However, just because people in the USA believe this, doesn't mean the people living the place where these individuals fled from don't know the history.
I can't provide the documents but the comments I heard were made in the Oval Office interview by Pam Bondi and Steven Miller so there should be proof if they are going to state these comments as fact - hopefully.
Foreign nationals, affiliated even obliquely with international gangs, have no claim to be present in the US. Regrettably we have some 20 million unvetted strangers in our country, very few of which are interested in becoming Americans, but are here to loot the nation and serve the criminal status quo of our deranged intel monsters by voting as commanded by their paymasters. I reckon when one is fighting a war for survival niceties for exploiters is too much to ask.
The dems (Marxists) have hatred, not only for Trump, but for America as a republic and it's capitalist system. This is very clear, and has been for over 80 years. If the dems will die on the hill of men in women's sports, they certainly will die on the hill of attempting full Marxism/authoritarianism.
Nonsense. We're paying El Salvador to keep people there. If Trump wanted to bring him back, it would just take a phone call. Any suggestion to the contrary is ludicrous.
That's a different question. The point is, for the administration to claim that it has no power to effect Abrego Garcia's return is a lie, a blatant and obvious lie. Do you seriously think it's the only lie they're telling?
It wasn’t a mistake if you watch the entire Oval Office exchange and listen to Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller lay it out I think you might feel differently. They also explained the 9-0 Supreme Court decision. It changed my mind.
Bottom line for myself and millions of other US citizens, we don't care about some illegal being sent back to where ever they come from. The person became a criminal when they illegally crossed into the USA. Criminal illegals are deported.
I don’t particularly care about this individual, but I do care about a gradual annihilation of our rights in general. It really accelerated with the War on Terror and the so-called Patriot Act.
Sadly, we see too many commenters on this site rah-rah-ing Trump's deportations, blind to the issues you described so well in your post. And tariffs (duties and imposts in 18th century language)-- here's an interesting tidbit from Article 1, Section 8, of our own Constitution:
"The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;..."
The Congress handed the tariff power over to the Executive, for some unknown reason, just as it did the power to raise war. And this doesn't seem to bother anyone. Not to mention our rights as inhabitants of this country.
Not one person among the Marxicrat judges, the media, or the politicians care a hoot about the disposition of Abrego Garcia. What they care about is stopping Trump because he is the most significant threat to their hegemonic power here in the US to ever occupy the White House.
Trump wants to deport millions of people who are here illegally, the Marxicrats want to at least get to a point where each and every one of them must have a thorough-going vetting process, a judicial hearing, before they are deported. If they succeed in the courts to do this, then mass deportations are finished and their program of importing illegals, and giving them the rights and privileges of citizenship will change our elections in their favor for generations to come. And, if they win in the courts, and then get back into full power at the national level, they will continue this program of blatant demographic engineering and vote buying. That's all that is in the balance...no big deal, right?
Bill, I don’t believe for a second that they care about him either. Thwarting Trump is the only thing they care about. Their actions could not make that more clear.
So no mention at all of the Trump admin's announcement that the "admission" of "error" was bad-faith sabotage by a lone Democrat staffer...? Or that the "error" WASN'T deporting him, just shoulda been to anywhere BUT El Sal?
SHAME on you for bringing this kinda MSM-level gaslighting and omission of crucial data to foster one-sided partisan narratives to one of the few UNbiased sources extant.
And a bit of shame on YOU, Matt, for allowing such a twit to blather 'ganda under your flag.
Or maybe you could do your f*****g job right in the first place without trying to shrug it off on me? Like maybe seek some goddamn sources that AREN'T total MSM propaganda?? Like, you know, the racket mission overall?
You are a clown. Asking someone who's coming to you as a source to cite sources to YOU? Look at the likes on my comment & on yours. 19 likes so far on my comment zero on yours. Do you think maybe you have 19 subscribers that know more about this issue than you do because they looked harder?
GTFOH & go find a clue.
If you seriously can't achieve this on your own, try ground news or straight arrow news and check out the blind spot features. I shouldn't have to tell you this if you're supposedly competent to such a crucial position as racket timelines.
"If you can cite primary sources..."
SHAME on you. This is common knowledge to anyone with their ostrich head not stuck down a silo.
(btw, this was even reported in a **cable news** interview(!) with a Trump administration official. So you're not even digging thoroughly in propaganda media?! I'm disgusted.)
Let's try this again. Your prior comment to the author of the article complained that he did not include something you thought should be included. I was simply suggesting that you provide him the primary sources to include in his timeline, as Taibbi has requested his subscribers to do. So, if you want to see them include certain information in the timeline/article, they welcome your submissions.
I think this case more than anything illustrates how broken the immigration system is. He came here illegally - yes to Liz’ point below, but since 2011 including Trumps last term has been allowed to stay. But under some non-comprehensible status for both he and his family. Why has not the immigration courts given him either a green card or deported him. Why are these cases in limbo for so long??? And why are we deporting anyone to El Salvador? We have plenty of prisons. This is insanity to a whole new level. Is the new standard- how cruel can we be? I have no problem deporting people. I agree it got out of hand, but let's show some humanity, some dignity, some grace. And respect our laws.
First, he was entitled to some due process that even the Supreme Court said he should have and second - just deport to El Salvador. Why to a prison? Or if he is in fear of his life, give him the option to self deport to another country. And again why are we paying El Salvador $6m???? I dont want my tax dollars supporting their prisons.
He got due process and is back in El Salvador. He had years under the previous lawless administrations to self-deport. He chose to stay. The government of El Salvador puts gangsters in prison. OTOH, in this country, they're elected to Congress.
I want my tax dollars to pay for incarcerating vicious gang members in a real prison that provides harsh deterrence. In America, the knee-jerk wokesheviks care more about criminals than they care about victims and worry too much more about criminals' "rights" than the rights of citizens to be safe. Again, the people being deported are CRIMINALS, for now.
I believe the withdrawal order was vacated because of some fear that he might be victimized by a rival gang in El Salvador, so the thinking was that he should be deported to a nation other than El Salvador.
A rival gang? So he was a gang member, or did the rival gang want to kill him for some other reason? Several commenters have claimed this was in dispute - they have claimed that there is no evidence that he is/was a gang member. But it would appear, to me at least, that the claim of being in danger from a rival gang is an admission against interest, undermining any claim to avoid deportation.
There are so many stories circulating online about this guy, I'm just not sure.
Or the gang was just extorting money from his family's business, which they all do. Plus, some are saying that that other gang has been neutralized by Bukele locking everyone up for life.
This story has way too many loose ends, and people on both sides tend to gloss over some inconvenient facts, I don't really have a clue.
It's a hot mess.
I don't like the idea of deporting anyone directly to a prison-for-hire, though.
I agree, I actually do not know why any immigrant who has been convicted of a crime is in the US. Of course they should be gone. In this case, it appears based on the facts he has not been accused of a crime, just coming here illegally - which not a rape or murder. So give him a hearing and lets get the facts. And PS, I am not a lefty but quite a centrist who happens to value due process.
Please define due process? This is a trick question. Due process means one thing in US criminal court and different things in other fields of law including immigration. There are actually different due process requirements within the immigration field. He got his due process, he was subject to removal. There appears to be some issue as to where he should be removed.
Due process is simply a term for the normal legal process is applied to all equally. Deportation hearings have different standards than the criminal beyond reasonable doubt standard, you are correct. However, this was not a deportation case. Garcia was incarcerated. He also did not get any judicial review whatsoever, and his incarceration, even if you classified it as a simple deportation case, was in violation of a previous court order that was not appealed. Hence his removal was illegal, as the Supreme Court rightly pointed out in a 9-0 decision. Beyond that, El Salvador's prison conditions likely would violate 8th amendment rights, which all people in the US have regardless of their immigration status.
And yes, even though he is in El Salvador, he is still constructively in US custody, as he is there by the direction of the US government and his incarceration is being paid for with US tax dollars.
All it clears up is that is your position. Everybody has one. You are confusing due process and equal protection. Due process requirements are far greater in criminal proceedings than in immigration proceedings, not the other way around. Garcia is in immigration proceedings, had a number of hearings therein and was subject to an order of deportation with the caveat that he not be deported to El Salvador. My understanding is that he was detained in March in connection with the valid deportation order(s) from 2019 and sent to a deportation facility. He was on a waiting list for removal, other people on the list for El Salvador were removed from the flight list and Garcia was moved erroneously to that flight list. It was an administrative error. Once out of the US the US no longer has jurisdiction, which is likely why the SCt did not order him returned but rather used the loose term facilitate his return. I researched this issue lightly today and in general once deported US jurisdiction ends with limited exceptions. The only one which would possibly apply to this deportee is the ecistence of a continuing court case that required his presence. Even if the lawsuit he filed is ongoing (I would argue it is moot) his presence is not required as he can participate via zoom. Again he is subject to a valid deportation order so even if brought back the only question would be whether the or not the do not deport to El Salvador provision is still valid and if so where he is sent. The fact that a mistake was made does not alter either US or international law. There are no mulligans to be had. Lastly, this OMG he must be brought back!!!! belief would mean that the US has jurisdiction over every deportee ever deported forever. That is insane.
Also, I'll just point this out. Every deportee isn't being imprisoned via the US governments direction and on the US taxpayer dime. So no, your logic falls apart quickly when you speak honestly about the facts of the case.
Equal protection is a necessary component of due process.
And no, Garcia did not receive that, even by immigration court proceeding standards.
Everything you said was wrong. The Supreme Court says you are wrong. He was illegally "deported", in violation of a court order. Beyond that, everyone who is deported under the Alien Enemies Act still has habeus corpus rights. That has also been affirmed by the Supreme Court. Garcia didn't receive that either. That isn't my opinion.
What is my opinion is that the system that the Trump administration set up is widely unconstitutional. These people need to go through criminal proceedings and the prison they are being sent to does not conform to American human rights standards.
Just saying that it's because he was granted a withholding from removal order in 2019, that he was not legally eligible to apply for a green card or citizenship.
As a legal immigrant, I have very little sympathy for illegal immigrants. He entered illegally, says he is not a gang member but his asylum claim is based upon a rival gang trying to kill him. The "papusa family business excuse" is just not believable since apparently the family is still running the business. If this is the poster child of the Left to show case Trump's evilness, then it is once again another failure, and Americans are not buying it.
This is the issue created by letting in so many illegals. This man, ultimately, is illegal. He made no real effort to gain citizenship, but stayed here anyway. And this type of behavior was ENCOURAGED by past administrations, in spite of the laws not changing.
By encouraging people to remain here knowing they are illegal, the Biden admin, in particular did them a huge disservice. They didn't change the laws, just used these people to break the laws for some political purpose. Now, that it's time to pay the piper, the people who enticed them to come here are running away like rats.
Of course, the media is purposefully clouding the issue, while attempting to make this miscreant (Garcia) some kind of hero. This is not rocket science...this is what they do, and they must be put out of business.
“Abrego-Garcia left El Salvador and illegally entered the U.S. in 2011.”
Illegal aliens are criminals because they broke the law - 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - when entering America. That is not a good way to begin a path to citizenship by breaking America’s immigration laws and there are ways to citizenship – just ask all of the many legal immigrants who came here legally.
We now have countless angel families who have suffered the loss or harm of a loved one committed by an illegal alien for decades now– aliens who should never have been here in the first place.
So much time reporting on illegal aliens when the real story should be what angel families have endured. Maybe I missed the article on angel families: https://lizlasorte.substack.com/p/borders-and-boundaries-and-freedom?r=76q58
Thank you. The story should end after your first sentence. But this is another case of activist judges trying to thwart the president. As for horrible prisons, imagine the horrible prison of pain of family members whose children were brutalized and killed by illegals. Maybe Matt can do a historical chronology of their stories.
This fellow is not a criminal. He was mistakenly arrested. Rather harsh consequence for someone who is legally in the US. Why conflate his arrest with actual criminals?
He’s a citizen of El Salvador, who has been twice ordered by immigration judges to be deported. I highly recommend you listen to the entire Oval Office meeting with Pam Bondi, Stephen Miller, Bukele and others. It completely changed my mind.
Is there a video of this conversation on YouTube?
Look it up.
Let’s cut the shit. He, along with millions of other’s entered the country illegally. That’s documented. He’s a criminal. That his stay here, along with millions of others, has been facilitated by a traitorous band of power craving leftists, Marxist, elitist, globalist, assholes bent on replacing the American republic with their own authoritarian state designed to keep them in power, comfort and ease at the expense of their own useful idiot base as well as those of us who oppose their plans, is also criminal. Sorry for the run on sentence but it needed to be said. This is a war for America. We can deport illegals and prosecute those who have broken the law to bring this about, and thus perhaps redeem our country. The alternative to not doing this will be extremely bad and will result in way more misery and suffering. Stop cutting these monsters hell bent on destroying our country any slack! Stop trying to deal with a cabal that is intent on implementing their nefarious plans!! Any compromise with them is merely a tactic they will use against you as they play their evil long game!!!
The country of El Salvador believes that he is a member of a criminal gang. They know his history before he ever came to the USA. We of course choose to ignore all history once a person crosses our southern border, but the world does not forget. Joining criminal gangs has consequences.
The democrats also chose to ignore vaccination status of all the illegal immigrants. Guess what? Measles outbreak.
Didn't that come from Mennonites?
Yes, the Texas measles outbreak originated from a Mennonite community. It’s the multi-state drug resistant tuberculosis epidemics that originated from the immigrant communities.
I'd like to see un-retouched photos of his entire face and neck and look for gang tattoos. If he has them, that would be evidence that he is, indeed, a gang member, and which gang he belongs to.
he was not mistakenly arrested. The administrative "mistake" averred to is in deporting him to El Salvador rather than another country. When people make a case for being in danger in their country of origin, they are to be deported elsewhere.
They are also to apply from the nearest safe country.
They were looking for someone else and when told it wasn’t the right guy some asshole ice agent said” take him anyway”. So we now are a country being preyed on by secret police who don’t obey laws and who follow made up degrees which also are not lawful.
You have no evidence for this. If you do, present it.
And the grounds for which he was supposed to be sent somewhere other than El Salvador are no longer valid. He claimed his life was in danger from another gang that no longer exists in El Salvador.
if he's not in a gang, why is he worried about retaliation
I have read that also, but not researched it. If true, which seems very possible, I think that determination would have to come from the same court that ruled he couldn't be deported to El Salvador. That part of this case, i think would require ICE/Trump Admin to file with a court asking to have the no-El-Salvador requirement removed.
I did not know that.
It's a pretty big detail the MSM tends to leave out of the stories.
Abrego Garcia is a criminal alien and has been for many years
You are just wrong. Abrego-Garcia is a criminal. He violated 8 U.S.C. § 1325.
Agree, but life in prison?
Violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1325 are not punishable by life in prison. Where is the evidence that Abrego Garcia will spend life in prison?
Where is any evidence at all lol.. this is a kangaroo court operation.
Trump’s administration paid El Salvador $6 million to imprison for a year around 300 alleged members of the Tren de Aragua gang. Garcia will be out in a year. It was a business deal. I doubt they will continue holding him and others without additional pay.
I've read several sources that say CECOT is a "for life" prison, and that no prisoner has ever been released.
He became a criminal when he entered the country illegally. That’s a given. He has been repatriated. Should he be held in prison in El Salvador, I don’t know because I don’t know if he’s a gang member or not. How do you know he’s not a gang member that’s committed crimes?
“…power craving leftists, Marxist, elitist, globalist, assholes bent on replacing the American republic with their own authoritarian state.”
Is this the level of intelligence and political awareness that I should expect from readers of this site? (Note the number of “likes”)
It’s a huge disappointment.
The huge irony is that many of Matt's paid subscribers initially signed up when they were exposing the Twitter Files. I.e., calling out the government-silicon valley-media partnership on censorship. Now that the laurels have changed and Red Team (or Orange Team) are back in power, they're just fine with the censorship, lack of due process, and have begun to openly cheer it on.
Abrego-Garcia had due process. Two immigration hearings.
Why are you defending a criminal?
I’m still not fine with any censorship; or any denial of constitutional due process for American citizens. I’m also against any torture from any American level of government or military against anyone, citizen or not.
And how do you feel about fully intact, rapist males being allowed in female prisons? Are you ok with this human rights violation being implemented in the law by democrats?
As was done to at least one of the January 6th women, who was forced to share a cell with a “transgender woman”, ie a man.
Red herring. Not at all relevant to this thread.
I'm a grown-up, so all the issues don't have to line up 100 percent black and white 100 percent on one side or the other. I don't like the issue you mention either but it pales in comparison to what's going on right now.
Tom marrying an illegal is a path to citizenship for kilmar , have you considered being his husband?
I know kamala was big on gender reassignment for inmates so maybe down the road it would be man & woman?
Tom's criminals are entitled to special treatment.
What censorship are they “cheering on”?
Yeah! You should be censored! Absolutely! YAY! ("cheer(ing) it on").
Sorry you are disappointed. Perhaps you can enlighten us with a level of intelligence and political awareness that would justify an open border that has allowed millions of migrants into the country illegally, at enormous expense to the public treasury, aided by the previous executive who refused to execute the relevant laws faithfully. What is the benefit to the United States, that justifies all the illegality and cost required to effectuate this program? What is your argument? Convince us? I for one would like to benefit from your elevated level of intelligence and political awareness and acumen.
Wait till there's no one to pick the harvest. There's your benefit right there. The fact remains undocumented immigrants do certain jobs Americans don't want to do, and they do it for very low wages. They pay into Social Security without receiving it.
Really? I’ve picked various fruits as my sole income source at an earlier point in my life. Something about paying for food sharpens your mind and motivation tremendously. Also I’ve always refused to accept any form of welfare because something of about self respect and dignity.
Please stop with that lame, old “think of the fruits” argument. Those hard-working people are here totally legally. Talk about a red herring 🙄
So you’re part of the crowd that wants them here to pick crops, clean hotel rooms etc? Or as Jasmine Crockett says, to “pick cotton”? How does one pay into Social Security without a (legitimate) Social Security number?
That old trope? Puh-lease.
How do they pay into Social Security? You would need a work authorization and an SSN, meaning this person is no longer an “illegal”, but is lawfully here.
Lol, John McCain in da house!!
Yeah, I wish I hadn't renewed for a year in Nov.
Ugly right wing crowd here. I came to check this chat expecting people to be alert to the injustice of sending ANYONE to that fucking prison. It was a not a good idea. I'm done with Racket chats.
Bye.
The comments have indeed become disheartening. But I try to remember why I subscribed in the first place - I have a great deal of respect for Taibbi's reporting.
I used to, but I cannot understand his 180. I read _The Great Derangement_ long before Trump or Substack. At this point I don't care who in this comment section doesn't like my saying that. I'm out of here as soon as my current subscription is up and if they want to kick me off before that bring it on. I didn't just like Matt because of the 2008 financial crisis reporting. Seems like I read _The Great Derangement_ before that (it was published in 2008).
Unfortunately, there is a newer book with the same name published in 2016, which gets confusing. But anyway, I was a Taibbi reader even before "Vampire Squid" which I guess is neither here nor there but I do not understand his 180 even if some annoying things happen on the left. I am annoyed at things on the left also but what's going on right now seems so much weightier right now.
I don't care who doesn't like my saying that. I'm not some far lefty. I can't stop right-wingers and smart people who have done inexplicable 180's from painting me as a far lefty who is in agreement with every stupid thing the left pulls. I don't like cancel culture. I like and read several prominent content providers who have gotten cancelled and don't go along with the cancelling. I am not crazy about blue-haired wokescolds etc. etc.
But that stuff in my opinion pales in comparison with what's going on right now and seems so much weighter. I don't care who doesn't like my saying that.
You're getting ridiculed for you opinions and it's someone else's fault? C'mon now. Do better than that.
Way to stay highbrow and above the fray. Proud of you!
Boo hoo.
See you.
Pity party, table for one.
I'm done too as soon as my subscription runs out. For some reason it left me on until my renewal would have come up.
Dude we got it enough already no ones going to miss you!
Toodles!
It has a pretty high knucklehead ratio compared to Shellenberger's substack.
What? Tim Walz is here?
That's a nice way to put it. I'd argue they're simply willfully ignorant of both the law and the facts of these cases.
Sweet, sweet irony.
Tell us about Armando's history. What knowledge do you have of any criminal behavior in El Salvador? Upstanding citizen? Criminal?
Let's say it's the former. Why come to the US illegally?
As with many illegal aliens, our border/immigration policies have no way to run effective background checks to validate what they are told at the border or in court.
"Why come to the US illegally?" -- I read in another article that at the time he entered the US he was fleeing the horrors of what El Salvador was back then.
Could be. So why not stop in Mexico, build a life, apply for asylum in the US? As is international law. Why ignore order to leave the US? He had the chance to do this and didn't.
Honestly it doesn’t matter why he chose to leave El Salvador, if he was seeking asylum in the US, there is a process for that which he apparently chose to circumvent and thus entered the country illegally.
Just teach them to say "fleeing the horrors" (en espanol) when they are caught after entering illegally and suddenly they will find themselves on the righteous path to asylum.
Oh the horrors of El Salvador that’s ever single persons excuse which quite frankly gets old
Yes, this is what this site has become. Been that way for a long time now.
I thought you were leaving!
I'm leaving! No, I really mean it this time! I'm warning you, I won't tell you again, I'm outta here! Damnit, why do you do this, I mean it, I'm going!
Really!
Yawn...
Pity party, table for 1. Pity party?
Boo hoo.
THAT'S the level of intelligence I am willing to muster up for your "huge disappointment"...
He is. He entered the country illegally. He may not be guilty of further offenses since entering illegally but he is a criminal alien.
He is 100% a criminal. He was mistakenly sent to EL SALVADOR when the text of his VALID DEPORTATION ORDER said he shouldn't be sent to El Salvador. That's the extent of the mistake.
Because he was determined to have been a member of MS 13 by an immigration court.
No he absolutely was not. If he had been, you'd at least have a link to back up your specious, bald faced lies.
he absolutely was, that is on record and widely reported. If you're only consuming legacy media, you're being gaslighted.
.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Abrego-Garcia in 2019 as he was looking for day labor outside a Home Depot in Maryland. A police informant told police Abrego Garcia was an MS-13 member. Immigration judges denied Abrego Garcia bond, both initially and on appeal, citing the informant’s accusation. In the order denying bond, the judge said the determination of Abrego Garcia’s gang membership "appears to be trustworthy and is supported" by evidence from the Gang Field Interview Sheet. This ruling was upheld on appeal. The order barred him from being deported to El Salvador however, due to concerns about gang reprisals against MS-13 members in that nation.
.
see point 5 of this affidavit from the Acting Counsel of the Department of Homeland Security
.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.74.0_2.pdf
The "accuser" said he was an MS-13 gang member in New York. Abrego-Garcia had never even been to New York and had never met the accuser or anyone in that person's circle. It was double hearsay, and I don't get ANY of my information from legacy (including right-wing) media.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know
It's amazing to me how so many of you are willing to immediately take this administration's completely shoddy accusations as fact, and then go out and try to burnish the lies with agreeing media. These, and the pro-Palestinian students, are just test cases. Trump has already said he would be looking for the first American citizens (home grown) to deport as a next matter of course.
Can you cite sources for that? As I understand it, he was only suspected of being in a gang because of his tattoos, which DHS mistakenly interpreted as gang-related, but they're not.
No, TeeJae. I'm sorry. I wake up and cruise all over the Internet, and I don't always remember where I read something, when I read something else about it later in the day. I read that they were basing it on his attire, though there was also something about an informant, who maybe didn’t like him.
I don’t really know, TeeJae. I have a lot of questions about this case, and I think people on both sides are missing something.
If the order to hold off on deportation was based on the contention that he would be at risk in El Salvador from rival gangs, then maybe he was supposed to have been sent to a friendly country that would take him.
Even if he is returned here, I don’t see any path forward in which he is allowed to remain, because, whether he was in MS 13 or not, he still entered the country illegally, so he can be deported.
I think Trump Admin people are being a bit disingenuous, & twisting some of the facts, but I suspect that people on the other side may be portraying him as being more virtuous than he actually is.
I appreciate your honesty. And I agree there seems to be more to this story. I guess we just watch and wait for the facts to emerge... as they always eventually do.
So this guy broke the law when he illegally entered the country in 2011.
So how has he been eating, living someplace, for the last what 14 years? What social net funds was he accessing in that time, fraudulently. Whose social security number was he using?
If they are forced to bring him back here it should be straight to a court of law, preferably in a red state where he will be convicted and deported.
The whole point of bringing him back is so he can receive the due process he is afforded under the Bill of Rights.
TeeJae, he came in illegally. Meaning he did not come through a point of entry asking for asylum. He stood before 2 judges who ruled he was a a) MS-13 gang member and b) reportable. O e judge ruled he was withheld from deportation due to danger in his own country. From a rival gang in El Salvador. He had his due process.
Biden allowed in millions hundreds of thousands using the same ip address on application, thousands of sponsors using the same address, clearly fraudulent mass importation and yet Trump has to give each individual a personal hearing. It would take decades. Which is the point isn't it.
The Cloward and Priven strategy to bring down the country, overwhelm the system, using the system has nearly done it.
"2 judges who ruled he was a a) MS-13 gang member" -- He was "determined" to be a gang member based on very dubious and circumstantial evidence.
"He had his due process." -- His right to habeas corpus was violated for this recent accusation by the Trump Admin before being whisked away to El Salvador.
To be clear, the 'due process' argument is only for those whom this Admin is sending to prison. What it SHOULD be doing is simply returning illegal immigrants to their home countries, in which case, no due process is necessary.
Remote hearings by zoom from El Salvador. That’s what nearly every court did during COVID. If it’s good enough for our citizens, it’s good enough for him.
That's not how the system works.
If you keep repeating this, at least you'll be able to quote yourself as a proof source and say you read it on the Internet.
Enna branch out from msnbc do research that the msm is ommitting in their lying by ommision and report back
Not legally in US
Both immigration courts found he was a member of ms-13 and saw evidence that he had engaged in human trafficking.
What a nice law and order circle jerk going on in this thread.
I like that NC. A timeline of all the murders, rapes etc.. committed by people here illegally.
The guest author of this post has not reported all of the facts. I have come to expect better of Matt. Please see the Declaration (under penalty of perjury) of attorney Joseph N. Mazzara, April 14, 2025.
I also suggest the declaration made by Robert Cerna, Acting Field Office Director for Enforcement and Removal Operations.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25875329-cerna-declaration-in-garcia-case/
#14 is not true.
It says he was not able to be deported.
He was to deported to ANYWHERE, except El Salvador because an earlier court had agreed he could not be deported THERE because of risk by gangs.
Damn. Can’t remove a gang member because of gangs. Kind of a double bind situation. Let’s send him to Martha’s Vineyard, I hear they don’t have a gang problem there.
Thank you.
Can you provide a link?
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.74.0_2.pdf
Hope that works. I am not skilled at links.
Jennifer, nice work.
Nice work by Pam Bondi, Tom Homan et al!
Yes, it does. Thank you!
To add to Jennifer's link below, this is a link for all documents in this aspect of the case:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69847836/kilmar-abrego-garcia-v-kristi-noem/
Edit: found another page with documents from 2019 as well:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/abrego-garcia-v-noem/
What you have provided is evidence. All of the motion layering shown here corporates all of the evidence entered to the court.
I'm sure there are many documents and affidavits filed that could also be included. But it's not like anyone is hiding anything here.
The real story is that American is a country ruled by laws, not men. This is one of the key principles that made American great and, if honored, will help ensure that America will be great again.
Abrego-Garcia was provided legal status that Trump Administration ignored. The Trump Administration also ignored his right under the U.S. Constitution to due process.
That's our country's highest law, treated like so much toilet paper.
Now our President smirks and pretends at helplessness in defiance to our courts.
Abrego-Garcia may or may not be a thug, a gang member, a hard-working family man or even a terrorist. I don't know and neither do you. There seems to be no question that he initially came to the U.S. illegally.
None of that changes his rights under the U.S. law or the U.S. constitution.
The ends do not justify the means. Hopefully you can see the importance of this case. If it's difficult, then imagine for a moment that the government (President Harris' administration in 2029) has wrongfully accused you or someone you know of being an illegal immigrant and a terrorist. Would you like your constitutional rights to be observed before you are deported?
"The real story is that America[n] is a country ruled by laws, not men." Yes, I agree. And Abrego-Garcia, a citizen of El Salvador, and not the US, disregarded America’s immigration laws when he illegally entered in 2011. He broke the law; he is a criminal. How does a criminal get legal status, when one of the requirements to become a citizen is to be of good moral character?
But, my main point is that the focus/concern is on an illegal alien who broke America's laws by entering illegally, yet no one cares about all of the innocent American citizens who have been harmed by illegal aliens - who should never have been here in the first place.
The law is very clear:
U.S.C. § 1325 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 8. Aliens and Nationality § 1325. Improper entry by alien
(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
Liz,
Your focus on Abrego-Garcia's status as an "illegal alien" skips over an important step--who gets to decide his status before he's deported?
Not you or me. We might have a sense of certainty about him, but anyone is capable of making a mistake.
So the decision of legal status is entrusted to the federal courts under Article III, United States Constitution.
The right to a hearing is a safeguard that the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized-- even for illegal aliens. This "interference," as other commentators have referred to it, serves a practical function: ensuring that U.S. Citizens and others with protected legal status aren't mistakenly deported.
Don't begrudge the illegal immigrant his opportunity for a hearing. Your freedom and mine ultimately depend on the same principle.
He had a hearing in 2019 in which he was adjudicated an MS-13 member subject to deportation (except not to El Salvador); appealed that; the original immigration judge was upheld. He received due process. See some of the filings not furnished by guest poster Greg. See ShipWreckedCrew's coverage at his substack.
Hmmm. Greg's write-up included the 2019 proceeding: "Abrego Garcia fought the accusation and applied for asylum. Instead, an immigration judge granted him 'withholding of removal' status."
This jives with the ICE's and the DOJ's acknowledgment that an "administrative error" had been made in deporting him 6 years later.
A federal court has preliminarily determined that Abrego-Garcia was deported "In violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act…and without any legal process." The decision went all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court and was upheld at every step.
Without wading further into the reported facts of the case, it doesn't sound like Abrego-Garcia got the process he was entitled to. If he did, then great, the U.S. government can demonstrate that in the pending lawsuit; let the courts sort it out like they are supposed to.
None of this changes my point that due process matters. I have no problem whatsoever with the U.S. deporting illegal immigrants. Just don't tread on the U.S Constitution in doing so.
Apparently, like Trump, many Americans are ignorant of the fact that constitutional due process applies to everyone within our borders- even illegal aliens. Maybe they are willfully ignorant that statutory laws or other government action is unenforceable when unconstitutional.
The fact that illegal aliens are entitled to due process is apparent simply by asking Google. In a few seconds it will refer you to the Supreme Court cases stating this. For instance, Congress’s own website acknowledges this:
“Despite the government’s broad power over immigration, the Supreme Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the United States generally come under the protective scope of the Due Process Clause, which applies to all ‘persons’ within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent.1”
The footnote cites the controlling Supreme Court cases.
Fundamental to critical thinking is doing your research before expressing ignorant opinions.
Greg did not link to the 2019 14-page immigration judge's finding.
The current validity of the WOR is disputed.
We will see how it plays out!
I understand your point of how important due process is, but that first action Garcia made started the chain reaction because he made himself a criminal. He did that; not the US.
And, yeah, Article III – who predicted the corruption of the federal courts – and all the corruption we know today? One of America’s wisest, yet unknown founders, and a judge at that, Robert Yates (aka Brutus): https://lizlasorte.substack.com/p/captain-hindsight-to-the-rescue-brutus?r=76q58
Ludecke v Watkins. Read it. Abrego had two hearings. Removal orders of an illegal do not violate the Bill of Rights and and are not subject to judicial review.
"no one cares about all of the innocent American citizens who have been harmed by illegal aliens" -- Red herring. Of course we care. But Garcia did not harm anyone.
Yes, he entered illegally. No one's arguing that. But he was granted legal status in 2019 under 'withholding of removal' status. And that right there affords him constitutional protections of due process before being arbitrarily imprisoned.
The eternal sycophants like you are completely fucked in the head at this point.
The Nazi accusations were overwrought for a very long time. They aren’t anymore. The president is casually talking about sending American citizens to foreign prisons and you’re sitting there finding excuses for it. You have no principles or convictions befitting an American. You are an embarrassment and an insult to the core of the American spirit.
Everything good that made America what it was, you embody none of it. Pathetic cowards.
Well, since you launched an unprovoked attack on this person I'd like to point out that at no point did the current president discuss sending Americans to foreign jails.
And the only time citizens were rounded up and incarcerated was during the FDR (democrat) admin.
If you'd get you facts straight it would help your argument. Attacks make you sound like Maddow.
First and foremost, Abrego-Garcia was NOT an American citizen, and to use that as the basis of your (not so well thought out) rant only serves to remind me that your opinion is worthless.
When you resort to emotional hysterics you weaken any valid argument you might have.
Emotional hysterics such as "with liberty and justice for all" simply have no place in our new transactional republic. Obviously, gross injustice for this man due to "an administrative error" will strike fear into illegal immigrants. A sentence of five years in solitary confinement might also reduce shoplifting. Business is business.
My response was actually in reference to SVF's comment regarding sycophants, being tucked in the head, and the ever-present tell, Nazis. Which preceded and diminished the valid point about references to sending American citizens to foreign prisons.
Do stop being insulting and hysterical, everyone is thoroughly tired of it. Give it a rest.
As a legal immigrant who went through a lengthy process to gain 'resident alien' status, and then citizenship, I second that. For legal immigrants, the process starts before we ever set foot in this country. I wish journalists would report on THAT process, which sometimes takes years. No one ever talks about that. The people screeching that "No One is Illegal" never acknowledge how many people right now have been patiently waiting and diligently working through the system for however long it takes to reside here legally. That process rightfully includes being fully vetted and proving that we will not be a financial burden to US taxpayers. The pearl clutching over the deportation of people who entered illegally, or who tried to game the asylum system, or whose cases were adjudicated and denied, is beyond tiresome.
If he was, indeed, an innocent asylum seeker running from a gang, he could've applied legally at the border in 2011. But he only applied for asylum when facing deportation for an alleged membership in a gang, but wasn't granted it. Gang members aren't eligible.
He came as a teenager fleeing gang violence in his home vountry
Shut the fuck up. He wasn't "illegal" you fucking police state worshipping bitch.
Anyone who enters the nation illegally is an illegal alien.
Get over it, and try not to be so angry.
There's a good chance your own forebears entered the country "illegally" - but he didn't. He was granted an asylum hearing, you ignorant fool.
My family did not enter the country illegally. But what does that have to do with anything?
When you can't win with facts.
Use profanity.
Always a winning strategy
Tom, appreciate you outing yourself like this. Now go take your ritalin.
ENOUGH!! Stop pandering to this “Maryland father”. He broke our laws by crossing that border. In any other country this is as clear cut as the day is long they ship you out. I don’t understand for the life of me how this is even being debated. The courts are wrong as the first item should be “crossed the border illegally”. When are the courts going to protect its citizens and stop being political activists. This is a 90/10 issue and if the left wants to die on this hill I say let them. If I do something illegal I doubt I’d get the support of some judge and I’m a blue blooded American with 7 generations behind me. Let’s protect us for once. Jeezus.
It is being debated because the maxists among us want to sow chaos.
Truth.
It is being debated because he is accused of being a terrorist, not simply someone who crossed the border illegally 14 years ago and has apparently not committed any crime since then. Also, rightly or wrongly, he's been under a judge's protective order since 2019. The problem here seems to me that Trump and everyone who works for him simply can't admit that they made a mistake. "We made an error but there's nothing we can do about it now" is really feeble. Due process matters more than Trump's hurt pride.
What everyone fails to understand is when you are not a citizen you don’t get to receive the rights guaranteed to citizens. Due process is not a guarantee for an illegal alien. Let alone someone labeled a domestic terrorist which allows swift actions once you get apprehended. The courts have zero intervention on international law too and since this guy was a fugitive in his home country he is exactly where he is supposed to be. Read the constitution it’s not a difficult document to understand. Only American citizens are guaranteed what that document says. He should’ve been deported in 2019. He had an order before this activist judge put him under his wing. Start concerning yourself with Americans. Being patriotic and caring for you and your neighbors safety.
You are simply wrong about that. The Supreme Court has ruled that non citizens have due process rights many times. There is a Scalia quote from a while back to that effect. Even recently with alien enemies ruling they all agreed unanimously that immigrants have a right to habeas petitions before being deported.
Wrong Luedcke v Watkins 1948. No due process rights after a removal order.
Domestic terrorist trumps them all. Look at the patriot act.
The Patriot Act should be repealed. It is a disgrace.
No it doesn’t and these people aren’t even being accused of domestic terrorism. Look at alien enemies act order- actually read it. It was only issued a week or two ago
They don't have to be.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1227&num=0&edition=prelim
4) Security and related grounds
(A) In general Any alien who has engaged, is engaged, or at any time after admission engages in-
(i) any activity to violate any law of the United States relating to espionage or sabotage or to violate or evade any law prohibiting the export from the United States of goods, technology, or sensitive information,
(ii) any other criminal activity which endangers public safety or national security, or
(iii) any activity a purpose of which is the opposition to, or the control or overthrow of, the Government of the United States by force, violence, or other unlawful means,
is deportable.
(B) Terrorist activities
Any alien who is described in subparagraph (B) or (F) of section 1182(a)(3) of this title is deportable.
(C) Foreign policy
(i) In general
An alien whose presence or activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is deportable.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/04/judge-rules-trump-administration-has-met-its-burden/
This is the reality. Due process means different things for different people. We don't need to convict an illegal of a crime before we throw him out. The SoS doesn't really need a valid reason to remove a non-citizen, he can just determine they're a threat and off they go.
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/the-imperial-presidency-free-speech
Even non citizens have constitutional rights James.
The patirot act enacts different powers when dealing with foreign and domestic terrorists. Which MS-13 has been designated and he was surely a member of and the Sec. of State can throw anyone out of the country for any reason if they believe you are a threat to the country. Doesn’t need to prove anything. Doesn’t get due process.
There is no proof that he is an ms 13 gang member. I don’t get why this is so hard to understand. Trumps own court said he shouldn’t have been sent to El Salvador. You magas worship of Trump is just insane. He could murder your families and you would find a way to justify it.
No we are sick of the country being over run with illegal aliens and using our tax dollars while citizens of our country go hungry and veterans sleep in the street while we drown under 37 trillion in debt. SHIT NEEDED TO CHANGE AND AMERCIANS NEEDED TO BE FIRST FIR ONCE
No proof? Why did he make a claim in his asylum application adjudication that he would be attacked by another gang? Was it that they other gang didn't like his haircut?
Due process is one of the rights that everyone has. Also, why do you keep calling him a domestic terrorist ?
Not accused. Determined in two hearings to be a MS-13 gangbanger. Under a removal order. Temporarily stayed because he claimed a rival gang in El Salvador wanted to kill him.
A citizen of El Salvador - not of the US
He's back home now.
He did commit a crime!!!!! He crossed our damn border!!! That’s a crime!!! Get it through your head for shit sake
The central question then becomes, why does a non-citizen have a judge’s protective order? What makes him so special and what was the motivation and legal precedent for that order?
Because we have asylum laws in this country. Part of getting asylum is if you fear that your life is in danger in your home country. It’s supposed to be one of the things that separates us from the rest of the world.
What about the fact that they say he is a member of MS-13? If he fears for his life because of gang warfare with an enemy gang are we supposed to give him asylum? Why is Senator Von Hollen going to El Salvador to “rescue” an MS-13 Salvadoran? This stunt may backfire.
Who is they ? One person accused him of being a gang member and that person is in up state New York. He’s never even been to up state New York. “They “ could be full of shit or mixing him up with someone else. There’s a reason why we use the guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. He’s been in the country for 14 years and has no criminal record. What gang banger goes 14 years without getting arrested for even something small. You guys are all wrong on this one. Does he deserve to get deported ? I don’t think so but maybe. The point is that he deserves a fair trial to decide if he does. He sure as hell doesn’t deserve to be locked up im one of the worst prisons In the world. Can everyone put aside your political bias and just have a little bit of empathy for the guy. Sure he broke the law by coming here illegally . Like no one this forum hasn’t broken the law. I suppose you all think that the January 6 terrorist deserved to be pardoned but fuck this guy right ? The punishment does not fit the crime.
They is our government and the government of El Salvador. So what happens when El Salvador decides to do what they want to do with their own citizen. They may not let him go. This is so bizarre.
Why the crimes were not charged , his wife/girlfriend obtained not 1, but 2 orders of Protection, after he beat his wife, enough for Courts to order, he must avoid contact with her.
Moreover, Garcia admitted did not enter the US , thru a valid port of entry , which renders hin immediately deportable.
He is a criminal and as someone who entered the US illegally, it is good he was sent to his own country and let Salvador deal with him. Why does the US have to even bother dealing with this nonsense? We are using our resources and taxes for this waste of time. Keep him in Salvador. If people who knew him say he was a member of M-S13, he was probably a member and he ran away when Bukele started coming after MS-13. An Bukele has really clean up Salvador and non-criminal citizens are very happy with what Bukele has done. Just because this is being done under Trump’s term the activists are fighting. They wouldn’t have done it under Obama or Biden.
I’m shocked that people don’t see crossing the border makes someone a criminal. I wish someone would go to some other country and try that. You won’t get due process. You’ll be arrested and deported non matter what circumstances you ran from.
That’s because this wouldn’t have happened under Biden or Obama.
Once again , where is the fucking evidence?!!! The Trump admin have claimed it with no evidence!!! They have not shown any evidence. All you are doing is speculating. People can get into trouble with a gang without being part of another gang.
You know what? I don’t even give a fuck about evidence anymore. I want done whatever has to be done to right this country. If some laws are broken? Shit happens.
Actually , I am a second amendment guy. And a first amendment guy. And all the other amendments. Obviously you aren’t because you don’t believe in due process or rights. It’s all in the constitution. As far as my families safety, I’m more worried more about shit for brains ,Jan 6 lawbreaking ,date raping MAGA fuck heads who can’t think for themselves than any illegal immigrant. I live in a border town. I’ve worked side by side with immigrants. I don’t give a fuck how they got here. They have done nothing but keep their heads down and work their asses off without complaining like you MAGA snowflakes. As far as I’m concerned, they have earned the right to be here. Not like babies like you who were born here and just sit around jerking off to newsmax.
You know what happens ? You get sent back to your home country. You don’t get sent to prison for life. Classic maga. Turn the argument to Obama. That was over 10 years ago dumbass.
Oh, so a decade makes some sort of difference? Now you get it. You get sent back to your country. Getting your panties all up in a twist about a scumbag who beats his wife says all I need to know about you.
Hey fuckwit, he didn’t just get sent back to his country. He got sent to one of the worse prisons in the world.
Shit for brains. I don’t care. He is a member of MS-13 and human trafficker. I hope nothing terrible ever befalls someone in your family or someone you love. It’s high time the citizens of this country came first. I’m guessing you’re not a second amendment guy either. Piss off shit for brains.
You want to talk about a guilty conscience? You are the piece of shit that thinks a guy should spend the rest of his life in prison because he came into our country illegally. Take a minute to think about that you heartless prick.
I don’t. Why don’t you head over to any country but ours and leave your passport at home and see what happens. You ignorant bleeding heart. I won’t lose a minute of sleep as Tom Homan and Kristi Noem sweep the country getting rid is those who shouldn’t be here. Also, check on Barry’s record on deportations. They once called him the deportee in chief. A refresher of history for you. Dumbass
When I immigranted legally to Canada, it was obvious that if I broke ANY law, I'd be deported. It looked like a speeding at high speeds would get me.
Sorry James but you are misinformed about how things work. He is still allowed due process and 10 judges have said that. They know alot more than you or I about this.
I understand that conditions at CECOT are 'mostly peaceful.'
Best comment yet.
Why would anyone advocate for keeping an illegal alien in the United States? This dude is from El Salvador. He is back where he belongs. Whether the El Salvador government decides to keep him in prison or let him roam free, that is a decision by a sovereign nation. None of our business at this point.
He was legally in the US
I highly recommend you watch the entire exchange in the Oval Office with Pam Bondi, Stephen Miller, Bukele, etc. Completely changed my mind. May change yours too.
I’ll follow the courts including the Supreme Court.
As long as you agree with them, I'm sure.
And he was not 'legally' in the US; that's what all the court cases are about. Some jurists say yes, some say no. Admin says no.
Liberals for some reason decades ago tried - and are still trying - to change the meaning of the Constitution to cover anyone inside the borders.
Hence the 'undocumented' and DACA versus illegal.
They are not citizens.
The clause in the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
"No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."
The clause in Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
"... nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."
Neither clause specifies “citizen”; they say “person.” We are going down a really slippery slope with all this.
It’s remarkable how some love the Constitution and quote it when it works for their purposes. Otherwise they’ll label it a document written by dead white men.
This is a false equivalence. Due process is not a universally defined term rather it means different things in different fields of law. But the logical conclusion of your interpretation is that all a foreigner must do is set foot on US soil and shout "Olly, olly, oxen free" to be cloaked in the accoutrements of citizenship. I understand your confusion because we were indeed subjected to that for four years under the prior "administration" but fortunately no more. As you have perhaps heard somewhere elections have co sequences. Lastly, our courts no longer have jurisdiction (the authority to act) over this man. To imply we do is to say we have power over every deported ever.
To me (an idiot on the net) 'person' in this context means citizen; otherwise why would there need be amendments that state who is a citizen?
But as you say, for the courts to decide. I, personally, do not think that just by being within the borders you sudden come under the jurisdiction *of the Constitution*; can't think of any other Western country that says you have rights under theirs while in their country. Also don't believe that was the framers intent.
Just my opinion
The person question had a final deportation order from an IJ judge and was ruled inadmissible
Show us how he was legally here when he did not enter the country by legal means, please.
He was never legally in the US.
That’s not correct, Enna. The government merely deferred deportation, and specifically blocked deportation to El Salvador. He came and resided here illegally (like millions of others). Ultimately this will play out in the courts and maybe we will have clearer immigration laws as a result.
And legally removed, just to the wrong place.
Define “legally”. You keep parroting it so please explain.
Pedantic isn't a good look for you. Try again.
So in your world asking someone for an explanation of a point they repeat without evidence is pedantic. Not sure how you manage to get any information if that’s your criterion. You relegate seeking clarity to a triviality. Got it.
lol
Not really.
His removal order had been withdrawn, but he was still an illegal alien, and had still been judged to have been a member of MS 13 by an immigration court, and by an appellate immigration court.
No he was not
There were several statements yesterday that this individual was indeed part of the MS-13 gang, a fact confirmed by El Salvador as well. I believe it was 2 separate us courts as well as El Salvador that confirmed the gang activity.
We for some reason choose to believe that once a spark of humanity crosses our southern border, all history ceases to be. However, just because people in the USA believe this, doesn't mean the people living the place where these individuals fled from don't know the history.
I would like to find the court records, if avalable,for the 2 separate courts. Anyone have them to add to ttimeline?
Here are the newer documents:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69847836/kilmar-abrego-garcia-v-kristi-noem/
I can't provide the documents but the comments I heard were made in the Oval Office interview by Pam Bondi and Steven Miller so there should be proof if they are going to state these comments as fact - hopefully.
Lol
Foreign nationals, affiliated even obliquely with international gangs, have no claim to be present in the US. Regrettably we have some 20 million unvetted strangers in our country, very few of which are interested in becoming Americans, but are here to loot the nation and serve the criminal status quo of our deranged intel monsters by voting as commanded by their paymasters. I reckon when one is fighting a war for survival niceties for exploiters is too much to ask.
It was a mistake.
But if El Salvador won't release him, there's nothing the US can or should do.
I don't understand the Ds deciding to fight on this particular hill.
Dems hatred for President Trump is causing them to make stupid decisions,
The dems (Marxists) have hatred, not only for Trump, but for America as a republic and it's capitalist system. This is very clear, and has been for over 80 years. If the dems will die on the hill of men in women's sports, they certainly will die on the hill of attempting full Marxism/authoritarianism.
Hate poisons the practitioner.
yep. This explains A LOT of what has occurred in the last 8 years.
Nonsense. We're paying El Salvador to keep people there. If Trump wanted to bring him back, it would just take a phone call. Any suggestion to the contrary is ludicrous.
Why would Trump do this? Why should he? Why should El Salvador expel one of its citizens to become an illegal alien?
That's a different question. The point is, for the administration to claim that it has no power to effect Abrego Garcia's return is a lie, a blatant and obvious lie. Do you seriously think it's the only lie they're telling?
Because his Admin made a mistake. But more importantly, because SCOTUS ordered him to bring Garcia back for due process.
Because they lost their (Hispanic) vote in the last election; they think fighting for this guy will get them back some votes.
Maybe, your right.
They are wrong.
It wasn’t a mistake if you watch the entire Oval Office exchange and listen to Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller lay it out I think you might feel differently. They also explained the 9-0 Supreme Court decision. It changed my mind.
They are all stupid just ask Benjamin
It's not just Ds. It's anyone who values the constitution.
One word from Trump to Bukele and the guy would be released.
Why would Trump do that?
To stop the absurd grandstanding of the Democrats.
TDS??
This is because they believe the fairy tales that work in their favor.
Bottom line for myself and millions of other US citizens, we don't care about some illegal being sent back to where ever they come from. The person became a criminal when they illegally crossed into the USA. Criminal illegals are deported.
I don’t particularly care about this individual, but I do care about a gradual annihilation of our rights in general. It really accelerated with the War on Terror and the so-called Patriot Act.
Apologies if you're not interested, but I think you'll like this:
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/the-imperial-presidency-free-speech
Sadly, we see too many commenters on this site rah-rah-ing Trump's deportations, blind to the issues you described so well in your post. And tariffs (duties and imposts in 18th century language)-- here's an interesting tidbit from Article 1, Section 8, of our own Constitution:
"The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;..."
The Congress handed the tariff power over to the Executive, for some unknown reason, just as it did the power to raise war. And this doesn't seem to bother anyone. Not to mention our rights as inhabitants of this country.
Thanks for that, well done.
Not one person among the Marxicrat judges, the media, or the politicians care a hoot about the disposition of Abrego Garcia. What they care about is stopping Trump because he is the most significant threat to their hegemonic power here in the US to ever occupy the White House.
Trump wants to deport millions of people who are here illegally, the Marxicrats want to at least get to a point where each and every one of them must have a thorough-going vetting process, a judicial hearing, before they are deported. If they succeed in the courts to do this, then mass deportations are finished and their program of importing illegals, and giving them the rights and privileges of citizenship will change our elections in their favor for generations to come. And, if they win in the courts, and then get back into full power at the national level, they will continue this program of blatant demographic engineering and vote buying. That's all that is in the balance...no big deal, right?
They care about him and not you👍
Bill, I don’t believe for a second that they care about him either. Thwarting Trump is the only thing they care about. Their actions could not make that more clear.
So no mention at all of the Trump admin's announcement that the "admission" of "error" was bad-faith sabotage by a lone Democrat staffer...? Or that the "error" WASN'T deporting him, just shoulda been to anywhere BUT El Sal?
SHAME on you for bringing this kinda MSM-level gaslighting and omission of crucial data to foster one-sided partisan narratives to one of the few UNbiased sources extant.
And a bit of shame on YOU, Matt, for allowing such a twit to blather 'ganda under your flag.
If you can cite primary sources that prove that, submit them to be included in the timeline, as they have asked us to do.
Or maybe you could do your f*****g job right in the first place without trying to shrug it off on me? Like maybe seek some goddamn sources that AREN'T total MSM propaganda?? Like, you know, the racket mission overall?
You are a clown. Asking someone who's coming to you as a source to cite sources to YOU? Look at the likes on my comment & on yours. 19 likes so far on my comment zero on yours. Do you think maybe you have 19 subscribers that know more about this issue than you do because they looked harder?
GTFOH & go find a clue.
If you seriously can't achieve this on your own, try ground news or straight arrow news and check out the blind spot features. I shouldn't have to tell you this if you're supposedly competent to such a crucial position as racket timelines.
"If you can cite primary sources..."
SHAME on you. This is common knowledge to anyone with their ostrich head not stuck down a silo.
(btw, this was even reported in a **cable news** interview(!) with a Trump administration official. So you're not even digging thoroughly in propaganda media?! I'm disgusted.)
Let's try this again. Your prior comment to the author of the article complained that he did not include something you thought should be included. I was simply suggesting that you provide him the primary sources to include in his timeline, as Taibbi has requested his subscribers to do. So, if you want to see them include certain information in the timeline/article, they welcome your submissions.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is a disease which is now invading and engulfing the judiciary.
The judiciary has been infected with TDS since 2015 when Trump first ran….the courts are not reliable
I think this case more than anything illustrates how broken the immigration system is. He came here illegally - yes to Liz’ point below, but since 2011 including Trumps last term has been allowed to stay. But under some non-comprehensible status for both he and his family. Why has not the immigration courts given him either a green card or deported him. Why are these cases in limbo for so long??? And why are we deporting anyone to El Salvador? We have plenty of prisons. This is insanity to a whole new level. Is the new standard- how cruel can we be? I have no problem deporting people. I agree it got out of hand, but let's show some humanity, some dignity, some grace. And respect our laws.
He got in illegally, so he should not be allowed to stay. He is from El
Salvador is back in El Salvador. Why should he be in an American prison, costing the taxpayers hundreds of thousands a year?
First, he was entitled to some due process that even the Supreme Court said he should have and second - just deport to El Salvador. Why to a prison? Or if he is in fear of his life, give him the option to self deport to another country. And again why are we paying El Salvador $6m???? I dont want my tax dollars supporting their prisons.
He got due process and is back in El Salvador. He had years under the previous lawless administrations to self-deport. He chose to stay. The government of El Salvador puts gangsters in prison. OTOH, in this country, they're elected to Congress.
He had two immigration hearings, and was ordered to be deported. He had his day in court years ago.
I want my tax dollars to pay for incarcerating vicious gang members in a real prison that provides harsh deterrence. In America, the knee-jerk wokesheviks care more about criminals than they care about victims and worry too much more about criminals' "rights" than the rights of citizens to be safe. Again, the people being deported are CRIMINALS, for now.
I believe the withdrawal order was vacated because of some fear that he might be victimized by a rival gang in El Salvador, so the thinking was that he should be deported to a nation other than El Salvador.
A rival gang? So he was a gang member, or did the rival gang want to kill him for some other reason? Several commenters have claimed this was in dispute - they have claimed that there is no evidence that he is/was a gang member. But it would appear, to me at least, that the claim of being in danger from a rival gang is an admission against interest, undermining any claim to avoid deportation.
Oh, Jack, I don't even know.
There are so many stories circulating online about this guy, I'm just not sure.
Or the gang was just extorting money from his family's business, which they all do. Plus, some are saying that that other gang has been neutralized by Bukele locking everyone up for life.
This story has way too many loose ends, and people on both sides tend to gloss over some inconvenient facts, I don't really have a clue.
It's a hot mess.
I don't like the idea of deporting anyone directly to a prison-for-hire, though.
A deportation order *was* issued, but they found an activist judge to thwart it, just like every other attempt to enforce any immigration laws.
I notice you failed to mention the “what about the indignities, humanity and grace for the people who were raped and murdered by illegals”
Why does lefty love maniacal criminals more than they love peace and humanity for Americans
I agree, I actually do not know why any immigrant who has been convicted of a crime is in the US. Of course they should be gone. In this case, it appears based on the facts he has not been accused of a crime, just coming here illegally - which not a rape or murder. So give him a hearing and lets get the facts. And PS, I am not a lefty but quite a centrist who happens to value due process.
Your descriptor is wildly incorrect, the person was an illegal and that is a crime unto itself
Why does lefty always side with criminals
Not been convicted of a crime, but sent to a prison just the same. Deportation is one thing. This is not that.
Please define due process? This is a trick question. Due process means one thing in US criminal court and different things in other fields of law including immigration. There are actually different due process requirements within the immigration field. He got his due process, he was subject to removal. There appears to be some issue as to where he should be removed.
Due process is simply a term for the normal legal process is applied to all equally. Deportation hearings have different standards than the criminal beyond reasonable doubt standard, you are correct. However, this was not a deportation case. Garcia was incarcerated. He also did not get any judicial review whatsoever, and his incarceration, even if you classified it as a simple deportation case, was in violation of a previous court order that was not appealed. Hence his removal was illegal, as the Supreme Court rightly pointed out in a 9-0 decision. Beyond that, El Salvador's prison conditions likely would violate 8th amendment rights, which all people in the US have regardless of their immigration status.
And yes, even though he is in El Salvador, he is still constructively in US custody, as he is there by the direction of the US government and his incarceration is being paid for with US tax dollars.
I hope that clears it up for you.
All it clears up is that is your position. Everybody has one. You are confusing due process and equal protection. Due process requirements are far greater in criminal proceedings than in immigration proceedings, not the other way around. Garcia is in immigration proceedings, had a number of hearings therein and was subject to an order of deportation with the caveat that he not be deported to El Salvador. My understanding is that he was detained in March in connection with the valid deportation order(s) from 2019 and sent to a deportation facility. He was on a waiting list for removal, other people on the list for El Salvador were removed from the flight list and Garcia was moved erroneously to that flight list. It was an administrative error. Once out of the US the US no longer has jurisdiction, which is likely why the SCt did not order him returned but rather used the loose term facilitate his return. I researched this issue lightly today and in general once deported US jurisdiction ends with limited exceptions. The only one which would possibly apply to this deportee is the ecistence of a continuing court case that required his presence. Even if the lawsuit he filed is ongoing (I would argue it is moot) his presence is not required as he can participate via zoom. Again he is subject to a valid deportation order so even if brought back the only question would be whether the or not the do not deport to El Salvador provision is still valid and if so where he is sent. The fact that a mistake was made does not alter either US or international law. There are no mulligans to be had. Lastly, this OMG he must be brought back!!!! belief would mean that the US has jurisdiction over every deportee ever deported forever. That is insane.
Also, I'll just point this out. Every deportee isn't being imprisoned via the US governments direction and on the US taxpayer dime. So no, your logic falls apart quickly when you speak honestly about the facts of the case.
Equal protection is a necessary component of due process.
And no, Garcia did not receive that, even by immigration court proceeding standards.
Everything you said was wrong. The Supreme Court says you are wrong. He was illegally "deported", in violation of a court order. Beyond that, everyone who is deported under the Alien Enemies Act still has habeus corpus rights. That has also been affirmed by the Supreme Court. Garcia didn't receive that either. That isn't my opinion.
What is my opinion is that the system that the Trump administration set up is widely unconstitutional. These people need to go through criminal proceedings and the prison they are being sent to does not conform to American human rights standards.
We really need comprehensive immigration reform. Congress has an opportunity here and, frankly, a responsibility to the nation.
To answer one of your questions: A withholding order legally bars the alien from seeking permanent resident status (green card) or citizenship.
Thanks… Still not sure i understand.
Just saying that it's because he was granted a withholding from removal order in 2019, that he was not legally eligible to apply for a green card or citizenship.
As a legal immigrant, I have very little sympathy for illegal immigrants. He entered illegally, says he is not a gang member but his asylum claim is based upon a rival gang trying to kill him. The "papusa family business excuse" is just not believable since apparently the family is still running the business. If this is the poster child of the Left to show case Trump's evilness, then it is once again another failure, and Americans are not buying it.
This is the issue created by letting in so many illegals. This man, ultimately, is illegal. He made no real effort to gain citizenship, but stayed here anyway. And this type of behavior was ENCOURAGED by past administrations, in spite of the laws not changing.
By encouraging people to remain here knowing they are illegal, the Biden admin, in particular did them a huge disservice. They didn't change the laws, just used these people to break the laws for some political purpose. Now, that it's time to pay the piper, the people who enticed them to come here are running away like rats.
Fwiw, he couldn't seek citizenship or permanent resident status (green card) because a withholding order legally bars it.
Thank you for explaining that he is actually from El Salvador, other outlets aren’t making this clear.
Of course, the media is purposefully clouding the issue, while attempting to make this miscreant (Garcia) some kind of hero. This is not rocket science...this is what they do, and they must be put out of business.