Okay, but the Dr. Seuss story was blown way out of proportion. It wasn't as if the government, or even the publisher decided not to print those books. It was the family and estate of Dr Seuss himself. Also, the animations were truly racist depictions of black and Asian people. I agree that cancel culture has gone too far many times, but …
Okay, but the Dr. Seuss story was blown way out of proportion. It wasn't as if the government, or even the publisher decided not to print those books. It was the family and estate of Dr Seuss himself. Also, the animations were truly racist depictions of black and Asian people. I agree that cancel culture has gone too far many times, but this was not one of those times in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm a millennial, but I don't see the slippery slope here, which is a fallacy anyway. It's not self=censorship if the decision was made based on their own morals, and not pressure from above, or below.
The decision was based on meeting with self-annointed CRT "experts" who see racism in everything. The other MO is the ubiquitous "staff" letter or uprising. That racket, the Southern Poverty Law Center, objected to Seuss precisely because he inculcated togetherness and tolerance when the young should instead fight against oppression. (SPLC called animal protection groups "terrorists" because they opposed vivisection on chimpanzees).
Children's books are now flagrantly racist, depicting white privilege, stereotypes and oppression to first graders, causing far more negativity and discord than the gentle Seuss ever imagined. The latter, actual racist nonsense is lauded. Seuss isn't in a vacuum: the entire Western classic canon, Cicero, Seneca, Plato, Plutarch, Shakespeare, the whole lot,, are on the chopping block. We need organization; if we tsk tsk each new outrage without responding with equal pressure, we're simply bearing witness to the arrival a new Dark Age. One can't even watch TCM without indoctrination. If I want Ben Mankiewicz political opinion on Woman of the Year, I' I'll let him know. Years ago I worked with an ad hoc coalition of historians and environmentalists working to prevent Disney from turning Manassas Battlefield into a theme park/edge city. We won. Don Henley contributed $200,00. I started Boycott Disney. In a matter of months, a volunteer battalion of vastly different people who care about history and this country mobilized to save a chunk of both. Completely spontaneous. We had a fundraiser at Ford's Theatre. Matt and others are using the power of the pen. But we need that spontaneous organization now, we need historians, musicians, classicists, and actors to speak up. What's that sound you hear? Nothing.
I worked a Disney many moons ago. At one point we were out looking for places to build second theme park in Asia (after Tokyo). One of the places we visited as in China was Guilin, famous for its limestone mountains. The city of Guilin, who were our hosts, offered to build an airport that could take jumbo jets, and offered us a huge piece of property that had featured the pristine view as a backdrop. We walked away from it, for a number of reasons.
Yes. I participated in this for many reasons including owning land in the Bull Run Mountains that would have become a raft of t-shirt shops. Don’t remember who started it but there were a lot of locals including well-known horse farm owners and the Piedmont Environmental Council. I think what killed it though was a proposal to have “slave markets “ - historically correct of course.
I took a leave of absence for three months to work on it. Eisner and Katzenburg were still going ahead, which is why I joined. Yes, Piedmont En. Council was working on it. Annie Snyder was a local celebrity, you must have known her then,a glamorous , older woman permanently attached to her shotgun. Nobody bossed Annie around. A real, honest to God hoot. James McPherdon and David McCullough joined. After Don Henkey jumped in and donated 200,000, we had the fundraiser. Featuring Henley, and the historians. A day after the boycott was in Newsweek, Disney pulled out. That is what happened, and I never felt he got enough credit. That's the way those things are.
My larger point is getting lost: as on Disney, pressure needs to be met with pressure. Hasbro or Disney ot Smith College need to be met with counterveilingpressure
from the normal public, cultural figures, actual consumers. The perpetrators of this thing are shameless, but the people they are pressuring may not be. Otherwise this US going to keep going until there is no way out other than to move.
I don’t know if we could convince any of these people to engage now. Many Fauquier County estates had those dreadful “I believe” signs out along with BLM. Seemingly all on board with shutting down other points of view.
If two or three major musicians, actors, whomever, vocally opposed this, it may embolden others to follow. I fear we are at the point where even if they did come out, legacy and social media would censor or punish them. But they couldn't entirely We have these striations, private censorship instead of government, akin to East Germany in so many ways, under the illusion that we're still the U.S. We've lost a free press and our right to free speech. Oh, technically at least, I hope,we still have the latter, but that is a matter of time. Law students from the best universities say the o goodbye courts as a last resort Without that, we're not the U.S.
Shouldn't do this while I am walking. Re above: law students are writing Bari Weiss that law profs are to a person enforcing CRT. That means our courts will be subsumed by the totalitarian wave. Sorry to be dramatic, but if the shoe fits.
I've only seen the chopsticks image, but can you describe why you believe it's a "truly racist depiction". I'm asking completely genuinely, because I think this is a very hyperbolic statement. I'm very happy to be corrected, but by the same token I also expect you to be willing to walk that statement back if you can't reasonably justify it.
“ Maybe it's because I'm a millennial, but I don't see the slippery slope here, which is a fallacy anyway.”
The “slippery slope” is an informal fallacy. It has to be shown that an argument is a slippery slope - just because someone presents a sequence does not indicate a slippery slope.
Your statement is basically saying, “... but I don't see the fallacy
here, which is a fallacy anyway.”
I agree with you that the estate of Dr. Seuss stopping the publication of the books is different than if an external source dictated that publication should stop.
I’m on the fence about eBay banning the books’ sales - mostly because eBay is so big that it ties in with big tech making more and more decisions about what is allowable or not allowable in society.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with this. Libraries have to cull their collections all the time. I’ve never heard of these Seuss books before - does a library need to have a complete collection of Seuss books? I’ve often wished libraries did not cater so much to the big commercial giant publishers. (If we are talking about a university library this would be a different issue. I have read before, but never seen confirmation, that Disney, years ago, “made contributions” to university libraries to remove early Disney work that was either racist or propaganda.)
Okay, but the Dr. Seuss story was blown way out of proportion. It wasn't as if the government, or even the publisher decided not to print those books. It was the family and estate of Dr Seuss himself. Also, the animations were truly racist depictions of black and Asian people. I agree that cancel culture has gone too far many times, but this was not one of those times in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm a millennial, but I don't see the slippery slope here, which is a fallacy anyway. It's not self=censorship if the decision was made based on their own morals, and not pressure from above, or below.
Susan Russell57 min ago
The decision was based on meeting with self-annointed CRT "experts" who see racism in everything. The other MO is the ubiquitous "staff" letter or uprising. That racket, the Southern Poverty Law Center, objected to Seuss precisely because he inculcated togetherness and tolerance when the young should instead fight against oppression. (SPLC called animal protection groups "terrorists" because they opposed vivisection on chimpanzees).
Children's books are now flagrantly racist, depicting white privilege, stereotypes and oppression to first graders, causing far more negativity and discord than the gentle Seuss ever imagined. The latter, actual racist nonsense is lauded. Seuss isn't in a vacuum: the entire Western classic canon, Cicero, Seneca, Plato, Plutarch, Shakespeare, the whole lot,, are on the chopping block. We need organization; if we tsk tsk each new outrage without responding with equal pressure, we're simply bearing witness to the arrival a new Dark Age. One can't even watch TCM without indoctrination. If I want Ben Mankiewicz political opinion on Woman of the Year, I' I'll let him know. Years ago I worked with an ad hoc coalition of historians and environmentalists working to prevent Disney from turning Manassas Battlefield into a theme park/edge city. We won. Don Henley contributed $200,00. I started Boycott Disney. In a matter of months, a volunteer battalion of vastly different people who care about history and this country mobilized to save a chunk of both. Completely spontaneous. We had a fundraiser at Ford's Theatre. Matt and others are using the power of the pen. But we need that spontaneous organization now, we need historians, musicians, classicists, and actors to speak up. What's that sound you hear? Nothing.
Great post, Susan. Kudos to you for defeating Disney at Third Manassas.
I worked a Disney many moons ago. At one point we were out looking for places to build second theme park in Asia (after Tokyo). One of the places we visited as in China was Guilin, famous for its limestone mountains. The city of Guilin, who were our hosts, offered to build an airport that could take jumbo jets, and offered us a huge piece of property that had featured the pristine view as a backdrop. We walked away from it, for a number of reasons.
Interesting. Eisner got out when we had Boycott Disney in Newsweek, and when Henley got in. He made a splash.
I am leaving out the late, shot- gungun-toting Annie Snyder, Piedmont enviros. Historians like McPherson, McCullough. And so on.
Yes. I participated in this for many reasons including owning land in the Bull Run Mountains that would have become a raft of t-shirt shops. Don’t remember who started it but there were a lot of locals including well-known horse farm owners and the Piedmont Environmental Council. I think what killed it though was a proposal to have “slave markets “ - historically correct of course.
I took a leave of absence for three months to work on it. Eisner and Katzenburg were still going ahead, which is why I joined. Yes, Piedmont En. Council was working on it. Annie Snyder was a local celebrity, you must have known her then,a glamorous , older woman permanently attached to her shotgun. Nobody bossed Annie around. A real, honest to God hoot. James McPherdon and David McCullough joined. After Don Henkey jumped in and donated 200,000, we had the fundraiser. Featuring Henley, and the historians. A day after the boycott was in Newsweek, Disney pulled out. That is what happened, and I never felt he got enough credit. That's the way those things are.
My larger point is getting lost: as on Disney, pressure needs to be met with pressure. Hasbro or Disney ot Smith College need to be met with counterveilingpressure
from the normal public, cultural figures, actual consumers. The perpetrators of this thing are shameless, but the people they are pressuring may not be. Otherwise this US going to keep going until there is no way out other than to move.
I don’t know if we could convince any of these people to engage now. Many Fauquier County estates had those dreadful “I believe” signs out along with BLM. Seemingly all on board with shutting down other points of view.
If two or three major musicians, actors, whomever, vocally opposed this, it may embolden others to follow. I fear we are at the point where even if they did come out, legacy and social media would censor or punish them. But they couldn't entirely We have these striations, private censorship instead of government, akin to East Germany in so many ways, under the illusion that we're still the U.S. We've lost a free press and our right to free speech. Oh, technically at least, I hope,we still have the latter, but that is a matter of time. Law students from the best universities say the o goodbye courts as a last resort Without that, we're not the U.S.
Shouldn't do this while I am walking. Re above: law students are writing Bari Weiss that law profs are to a person enforcing CRT. That means our courts will be subsumed by the totalitarian wave. Sorry to be dramatic, but if the shoe fits.
Sorry for mailing people's names: McPherson and Henley, obviously. It was that kind of pressure that brought things to an end.
I've only seen the chopsticks image, but can you describe why you believe it's a "truly racist depiction". I'm asking completely genuinely, because I think this is a very hyperbolic statement. I'm very happy to be corrected, but by the same token I also expect you to be willing to walk that statement back if you can't reasonably justify it.
“ Maybe it's because I'm a millennial, but I don't see the slippery slope here, which is a fallacy anyway.”
The “slippery slope” is an informal fallacy. It has to be shown that an argument is a slippery slope - just because someone presents a sequence does not indicate a slippery slope.
Your statement is basically saying, “... but I don't see the fallacy
here, which is a fallacy anyway.”
I agree with you that the estate of Dr. Seuss stopping the publication of the books is different than if an external source dictated that publication should stop.
I’m on the fence about eBay banning the books’ sales - mostly because eBay is so big that it ties in with big tech making more and more decisions about what is allowable or not allowable in society.
Libraries are removing the books.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with this. Libraries have to cull their collections all the time. I’ve never heard of these Seuss books before - does a library need to have a complete collection of Seuss books? I’ve often wished libraries did not cater so much to the big commercial giant publishers. (If we are talking about a university library this would be a different issue. I have read before, but never seen confirmation, that Disney, years ago, “made contributions” to university libraries to remove early Disney work that was either racist or propaganda.)
*self-censorship