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Michael D (Piketty)'s avatar

MB - Lets see if i am clear on your thinking here. Over the last 40yrs due to changes in government policy the share of GDP going to the poor and middle class has decreased from 20% of GDP down to 11% of GDP. And at the same time the % of GDP going to the top 1% of Americans has increased from 12% to 20%.

And you think 80% of the populations financial problems are "self created"

What say we take HALF of your income, insist you work just as hard if not harder, and layer in society pressure that tells you you are a loser if you don't live in the right community or drive the right car. Then tell me what the chances are that most people are going to "self create" financial problems.

Blaming the poor for being poor is the oldest trick in the book. It is the propaganda of the rich and it seems you have been swimming in it for quite some time

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Martin Blank's avatar

Well that's one perspective.

Another is that computers and a globalized economy have badly hurt the competitiveness and value of US low skill labor. And that while the overall economy is much more productive, it doesn't have much to do with low skill US labor and so its share of the overall pie has shrunk.

But the pie is also much larger overall, so while their share has fallen, actual standard of living has increased.

The US is a very wealthy country in the grand scheme of things, even someone living just above poverty level generally has more than enough income to live a safe comfortable life. But people over spend and expect lifestyles their labor doesn't actually justify.

Its not "blaming the poor for being poor", it is being realistic about the value proposition of low skill labor and the causes of their financial stress. So many people who are on the verge of collapse, and the second they get the car paid off, they get another one.

In terms of "taking income", that is just the wrong perspective. Society doesn't give or take anyone's income. People EARN their income.

You seem to think the economy exists to somehow guarantee everyone a certain lifestyle. That is not what it is there for. The economy is there to distribute goods and services and provide a framework for people to chisel out of life an existence, same way they did 50, 500, and 5000 years ago. If people don't like their results, they need to pursue different strategies.

Now markets aren't perfect, and there are some systemic issues. I absolutely agree with Matt, and Piketty and likely yourself that in some areas the wealthy have over slanted the game, and Wall Street/advertising in particular needs to be reigned in. But viewing people's income as some thing society inflicts on them is just a completely backwards perspective.

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Michael D (Piketty)'s avatar

MB - It is not "one perspective" It is a stone cold fact.

My perspective is that these people do not consider their quality of life to have increased at all. Quite the opposite their quality of life has materially decreased. Along with declining wages, (relative to the cost of housing in safe areas with good schools, higher education) the end of pension plans, horrific health care costs and horrifying job insecurity relative to past day their quality of life has not increased. Most Americans don't have $800 in their checking account for an emergency. That is not what you call increasing quality of life. The US has declined so far in income mobility we no longer crack the top 30 globally. A Canadian or Danish person born poor is far more likely than a poor American to make it into the top 10%...

The country exists to ensure that all Americans are afforded an equal chance to persue life liberty and persuit happiness. The way we choose the divide GDP is massively important in ensuring that Americans are enabled to do that.

The economy works the way we want it to work. It is a choice. From 1940 to 1980 we had laws in place that resulted in ALL American income groups, seeing similar growth in income year after year after year.

We all had to carve out where we were going to be in that pecking order and some fell and others rose.

Over the last 40yrs the laws have changed and the result has been that those at the top no longer fall based on their own competence. Those at the bottom do not have anywhere near the chance of moving up that they used to. And there is empirical evidence to back all of this, this is not just my opinion.

On top of that Productivity growth has declined, GDP growth has declined and voter participation has declined. Deaths of dispair have increased and we now think nothing of allowing mentally ill Americans to walk the streets homeless and in dispair and somehow we all rationlize it.

The laws have changed and the data is irrefutable. We either change the laws back to where more Americans have a brighter future, the way they did from 1950 to 1980 or we start seeing our Democracy give way to Autocratic rulers that promise the world and of course deliver nothing,.

As Ben Franklin is reported to have said. "Democracy, if you can keep it"

Stop blaming the poor for being poor. That old adage no longer works. The data is irrefutable and if you want me to i am happy to start sharing it with you.

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