I read that Andrew Sullivan article and I will probably be pissed for the next few hours. Maybe I am just learning to accept my hate at the people who keep bringing things to the brink while pretending they are trying to save everything. Sometimes I wish they could get a good old Twentieth Century jackboot on their throats for a while so…
I read that Andrew Sullivan article and I will probably be pissed for the next few hours. Maybe I am just learning to accept my hate at the people who keep bringing things to the brink while pretending they are trying to save everything. Sometimes I wish they could get a good old Twentieth Century jackboot on their throats for a while so they might have a clue what totalitarianism really is. It is not mean tweets, distrusting bullshitters, holding on to your rights, telling experts who are always wrong to kiss your ass, or treating institutions with less than sacred reverence.
I happen to agree with Sullivan’s point that elites in 2016 still had some persuasive capacity and were called upon to use it to avoid the election of a demagogue by responding to the very real and justified anger felt by Trump supporters.
That’s not what they did. They instead demonized, lied, and obfuscated and that has only made the situation worse. In fact, the Democratic Party is now creating exactly the structures they sought to oppose. Sullivan’s recommendation would have been better for democracy and likely more effective.
Say what you will about Trump (who was certainly mischaracterized by many) but he is not a fundamental believer in our democratic systems by his own, repeated, admission. He was certainly worth opposing then and now. Just not they way it’s been done to date.
You might have a point if Bush, Hillary, and Obama, did not also factor into this equation. Get back to me on one of those "fundamental believers in our democratic systems" the elites were supposed to support to "save the country" while pretending to give a shit about people they hated.
Best comment ever! Anyone that thinks the Bush/Clinton/Obama we’re better than Trump need to get a real look at what’s wrong with the world. Hint---it’s not the Trump people.
We’ve gotta get beyond this grievance stuff. We’re here as caretakers and this democracy goes on after we’re dead. That cuts both ways: against the elites who don’t respect common people and our values; and us, reminding us our democratic values matter more than anything we might gain short-term by abandoning them.
What "democratic values" are you talking about? As far as I can tell, the opinion of your average voter has little weight in Washington decision making. Neoliberalism means not caring what the plebs think. How about the nondemocratic parts built into our system? Well the Bill of Rights is treated like toilet paper by technocrats who think they know better (and act as if it is something to be voted on). The simple truth is all this bloviating about "democracy", "extremism", "norms", "civility", and "freedom" (biggest lie of all) has been bullshit for a long time now. If you expect people who have been lied to and pushed around to roll over and not fight back, then I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, Mike, your shot at Trump fpr being "not a fundamental believer in our democratic system" is pretty ridiculous in light of how the system treated him, from 2016 onward. I'm guessing you think Obama, Hillary, et al, are "believers "in our democratic system. And by the way: when did Trump say he didn't believe in our democratic system?
I'm guessing you have a touch (and maybe more than a touch) of the TDS...more ramapant than COVID.
Friend, we can agree Trump was not treated fairly by the establishment. I thought we might also agree that none of that justifies his reaction to losing the 2020 election.
Mike, I think you are behind the info curve....the intel agencies actively sought to defeat Trump by controlling the flow of information during the 2020 election...not to mention, seeking to subvert his entire presidency by the bogus "Russian collusion" hoax. You cannot talk about Trump "losing" the election, given these very very stubborn facts. It was not a "free and fair" election.
Maybe re-read Matt's Twitter files pieces. That should get you up to speed on this critical issue.
Mike, one more point: it is an undisputable fact that not only did the Deep State actively work to sabotage Trump, the same people actively ran/are running interference for Biden, most notoriously regarding Hunter's laptop, which they famously mis-labeled as "Russian disinformation"--even though the FBI had possession of the laptop for a year prior to this bogus claim being made.
We have never had such corruoption in our political system. This is far far worse than Watergate, because there is so much institutional wrong doing. It is not too much to say that, at this point, we are living in a post-democratic America. Maybe we can recover our democracy. But first we have to have the courage to acknowledge where we are, right now.
When Trump is viewed in the context of it was either him or HRC, I say he was the most worthy candidate of the last 20 years.
I always thought he was going to be only 10-15 % better than HRC. And that’s what he turned out to be.
This mean he was essentially the same as HRC in 5 of 6 big issues of the day. But on that one big issue he was a big reformer. And NAFTA won’t ever be the same because of him.
This is great for our nation AND Mexico. DT gave the biggest raise to Mexican maquiladora auto workers in their life.
And when I saw how he made the authoritarians go full throated in their hatred I say he had all the right enemies.
I read that Andrew Sullivan article and I will probably be pissed for the next few hours. Maybe I am just learning to accept my hate at the people who keep bringing things to the brink while pretending they are trying to save everything. Sometimes I wish they could get a good old Twentieth Century jackboot on their throats for a while so they might have a clue what totalitarianism really is. It is not mean tweets, distrusting bullshitters, holding on to your rights, telling experts who are always wrong to kiss your ass, or treating institutions with less than sacred reverence.
Andrew Sullivan: another intellectual lightweight whose work has received far more attention than it deserves.
An English accent gets you anything in the USA. It's actually hilarious.
I happen to agree with Sullivan’s point that elites in 2016 still had some persuasive capacity and were called upon to use it to avoid the election of a demagogue by responding to the very real and justified anger felt by Trump supporters.
That’s not what they did. They instead demonized, lied, and obfuscated and that has only made the situation worse. In fact, the Democratic Party is now creating exactly the structures they sought to oppose. Sullivan’s recommendation would have been better for democracy and likely more effective.
Say what you will about Trump (who was certainly mischaracterized by many) but he is not a fundamental believer in our democratic systems by his own, repeated, admission. He was certainly worth opposing then and now. Just not they way it’s been done to date.
You might have a point if Bush, Hillary, and Obama, did not also factor into this equation. Get back to me on one of those "fundamental believers in our democratic systems" the elites were supposed to support to "save the country" while pretending to give a shit about people they hated.
Best comment ever! Anyone that thinks the Bush/Clinton/Obama we’re better than Trump need to get a real look at what’s wrong with the world. Hint---it’s not the Trump people.
We’ve gotta get beyond this grievance stuff. We’re here as caretakers and this democracy goes on after we’re dead. That cuts both ways: against the elites who don’t respect common people and our values; and us, reminding us our democratic values matter more than anything we might gain short-term by abandoning them.
What "democratic values" are you talking about? As far as I can tell, the opinion of your average voter has little weight in Washington decision making. Neoliberalism means not caring what the plebs think. How about the nondemocratic parts built into our system? Well the Bill of Rights is treated like toilet paper by technocrats who think they know better (and act as if it is something to be voted on). The simple truth is all this bloviating about "democracy", "extremism", "norms", "civility", and "freedom" (biggest lie of all) has been bullshit for a long time now. If you expect people who have been lied to and pushed around to roll over and not fight back, then I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, Mike, your shot at Trump fpr being "not a fundamental believer in our democratic system" is pretty ridiculous in light of how the system treated him, from 2016 onward. I'm guessing you think Obama, Hillary, et al, are "believers "in our democratic system. And by the way: when did Trump say he didn't believe in our democratic system?
I'm guessing you have a touch (and maybe more than a touch) of the TDS...more ramapant than COVID.
Friend, we can agree Trump was not treated fairly by the establishment. I thought we might also agree that none of that justifies his reaction to losing the 2020 election.
Mike, I think you are behind the info curve....the intel agencies actively sought to defeat Trump by controlling the flow of information during the 2020 election...not to mention, seeking to subvert his entire presidency by the bogus "Russian collusion" hoax. You cannot talk about Trump "losing" the election, given these very very stubborn facts. It was not a "free and fair" election.
Maybe re-read Matt's Twitter files pieces. That should get you up to speed on this critical issue.
Mike, one more point: it is an undisputable fact that not only did the Deep State actively work to sabotage Trump, the same people actively ran/are running interference for Biden, most notoriously regarding Hunter's laptop, which they famously mis-labeled as "Russian disinformation"--even though the FBI had possession of the laptop for a year prior to this bogus claim being made.
We have never had such corruoption in our political system. This is far far worse than Watergate, because there is so much institutional wrong doing. It is not too much to say that, at this point, we are living in a post-democratic America. Maybe we can recover our democracy. But first we have to have the courage to acknowledge where we are, right now.
He didn’t lose though.
When Trump is viewed in the context of it was either him or HRC, I say he was the most worthy candidate of the last 20 years.
I always thought he was going to be only 10-15 % better than HRC. And that’s what he turned out to be.
This mean he was essentially the same as HRC in 5 of 6 big issues of the day. But on that one big issue he was a big reformer. And NAFTA won’t ever be the same because of him.
This is great for our nation AND Mexico. DT gave the biggest raise to Mexican maquiladora auto workers in their life.
And when I saw how he made the authoritarians go full throated in their hatred I say he had all the right enemies.
We had to start somewhere...