The endless funding needs to be cut. Not everyone who wants to go to college deserves to go to college. Given the current endless loan system, some people need to be protected from themselves. Degrees with less than zero economic ROI for the students (unless they become professors or administrators) are a drain on society, and contribute…
The endless funding needs to be cut. Not everyone who wants to go to college deserves to go to college. Given the current endless loan system, some people need to be protected from themselves. Degrees with less than zero economic ROI for the students (unless they become professors or administrators) are a drain on society, and contribute to the woke navel gazing that has almost destroyed us.
I've said it before, student loans should be bankruptable, that would be both fair (too many 18 olds don't really know what their degree will be worth) and cut down on unlimited funding for degrees in DEI and transgender studies.
The removal of bankruptcy rights lies at the core of this whole scam. The Founders were smart when they called for them ahead of the power to raise an army and declare war. It's not just for relief. It's to keep the lending side honest and prices rational.
We can thank Joe Biden for his bankruptcy bill to aid his corporate donors in Delaware. Genocide Joe was surely one of the most blatantly corrupt and disastrous presidents in our history. Vietnam draft dodger and cheerleader for the racist War on Drugs, architect of mass incarceration with his 1994 Crime Bill, primary Democratic cheerleader for the war in Iraq, Obama’s point man in using Ukraine to provoke Russia—while enriching himself at their expense, and his final, world historical crime: supporting and funding the Israeli genocide of Palestinians
Agreed, I quickly clicked the "like" icon on the comment -- and I won't unlike it, but I agree with your qualification. (and clicked on the "like" icon for your comment too :-)
Harvard--alone--could pay the full tuition and fees for every undergraduate and graduate student at all the Ivy League schools--in perpetuity--and miss it less than Columbia would miss the $300 million they're too cheap to pay.
Those in control have no true interest in the welfare of society. As in all large organizations, including governments and corporations, intelligent sociopaths are nearly always the ones who eventually rise to the top. It is what underpins the perpetual but arguably unnecessary antisocial consequences of iron law of oligarchy. It is thus can be seen as, really, our biggest political problem, if we were only sufficiently aware. If so, then capitalism, socialism, left, right, etc. are all lesser questions, because all can be, and are, corrupted by sociopathy.
I guarantee you that if universities had to back their own student loans, loans for ‘midwit intersectionality degrees’ would be almost non existent because there’s almost no ability to pay it back.
Also, I’ve often wondered why different degree programs don’t have a different pricing structure based on ROI of said degree. As in... we need social workers or speech pathologists, but they don’t make as much, so why aren’t their degree less expensive? At least for classes in their major, to prevent kids from starting out in a less expensive major just because it’s cheaper then switching to a more expensive one.
And one more... why can’t companies sponsor a student’s tuition with an agreement of X years at the company after graduation? It’s essentially what the military does at the academies and ROTC. I’ve always thought that would be a huge boon to kids who are smart with no resources. I know it’s against the rules, but does it have to be?
Excuse my rant, but the way we fund higher education has always bothered me, and I’m a massage therapist with way too much time to think about these things, lol.
Thank you. I have a degree in finance and international business, this is my pretirement job. But I honestly wish I’d done it 20 years ago, best job ever.
I was a smart kid with no resources. So I joined my college’s ROTC program to help pay for my degree. It covered ~60% of costs so I still had to take out loans to cover the rest. After graduating I had a “guaranteed” job in the military making a whopping $29k/yr and went straight into the GWOT meatgrinder.
If a private company had instead offered to pay for my degree in exchange for several yrs of working for them at a decent salary without having to risk my life, hell yeah I would’ve taken them up on it!
That’s what I’m saying! Especially if it’s something rather nichey where the new grad is going to have to be trained on the job anyway after graduating. They can work at the company in the summers and get some of that taken care of. I think it would be great.
Those "useless underwater basketweaving majors" get hired by engineering firms to deal with the public because engineers are too specialized in their education.
But do you really need to spend tens of thousands of dollars and 4 yrs on a degree just to communicate with people? It’s unnecessary and fuels the college grifting scheme.
Communication is hard. You have to have a breadth of experience to try to anticipate what other people might think about how and what you say. You have to assess context. Moving from the often incredibly specialized philosophy and perspective that engineers swim in to the perspective of a customer is often like translating from one language to another. If you work for an international firm, the difficulties increase exponentially. And, that's just at work. It doesn't even begin to cover the much more difficult task of training a good citizen.
That was the yes answer. The no answer is that the student does not need to spend that money. The expense of education can be paid by the public, which benefits immensely from an educated people.
Love your idea. Think "Buy Here - Pay Here" model of financing, as happens at a used car lot. This would be a self-regulating lending plan, but even better than Honest John's Used Autos, since the student does not hold collateral that the University could repossess, Universities would be way more cautious in giving loans in exchange for worthless degrees.
100% agree with the 'midwit intersectionality degrees'! 😄
I think state colleges should charge what degrees cost, no more, no less. Or less, if the public agrees to subsidize them, in which case the baseline would be to subsidize all degrees equally, on a percentage basis.
Also agree it seems like enterprising companies would sponsor people for degrees they need; perhaps they don't because they already have all the graduates they need, and they compete for the best based on salary. Which puts the risk back on the student - so why would companies take the risk, if students are willing to do it for them?
You method works if there are plenty of qualified candidates in a particular career field. But if not, my method may be a way to make sure we have people doing the lower paying jobs without being stuck with a lifetime of debt for it.
Only student loans get 18yo kids in debt for 100k for something they can't even begin to pay off. No one is lending them 100k to buy a sports car when they don't have a job, and won't for at least 4 years.
In most cases they're not even allowed to buy alcohol, but colleges can talk them into taking these loans without a parent being present?
My grandson went to state university and I helped him with the process. They were excellent at spelling out the consequences of taking out student loans, comparing them to a 20 year car payment for example.
My kids haven't done loans, but when we put out feelers, I got the distinct impression the university people didn't want parents involved, at least when it came to actually asking questions.
No college put me up to getting pregnant at 17. My boyfriend and I got married and had to deal with our poor decisions. Being responsible for our actions grew us up and 46 years later, we're still married. Yes, it was difficult and not an ideal situation in which to start our adult lives, but I'm grateful for the life lessons. There are a lot of things you can do before 21 years of age that will impact your future life.
Colleges and Universities have the wherewithal to make and administer tuition loans, themselves, and without taxpayer guarantees. It would probably be another source of revenue, but they might feel compelled to be certain those receiving the loans understand what they are getting into, and are able to repay.
Navel-gazing is indeed stupid, but has almost destroyed us? I’m more inclined to blame 800 military bases around the world, multiple endless wars we have no real stake in, and our financing of universal healthcare in Israel while Americans have to launch Go Fund Me campaigns to pay for cancer treatment.
If people got degrees that actually lead to productive work, if teachers actually taught reading writing and arithmetic well (we might need to pay good teachers better), then we'd have a more dynamic economy that actually produced more goods and services and a stronger tax base to pay for all those pax Americana bases. Not sure what to do about healthcare, which is fundamentally broken. The American right doesn't seem to have an appetite for any system which would cut middlemen and inefficiency and provide protection for those with pre-existing conditions, or if we do, I haven't heard it.
The problem is that they're pushing reading and writing on kids whether or not they're ready for it. There's no evidence for the idea that kids won't learn to read or write without being pressured into doing it, and there's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that this practice teaches kids to hate those things, like it does with math. (Insofar as anyone can get funded to research the failure of this approach I would bet all of it speaks to it doing more harm than good.) It's past time to fundamentally overhaul public education away from coercion and one-size-fits-all milestones and toward giving kids agency over their own education. Not only would this prove infinitely less alienating, it would also be greatly more effective, though the education industry would not make the killing it does now, which tells you what road we're overwhelmingly likely to take.
I have read about people with a quarter-million in student debt for master's degrees in film studies and similar degrees that are very expensive and extremely unlikely to lead to an actual job. The schools themselves are pushing these master's programs on students, as the article said, because the tuition is so high and loans are available. No thought for the student at all.
I saw an interview with a teacher who went a quarter million in debt for a master's in education, probably worth about 2k a year in income body. Ridiculous. Mind you, I'm not sure how a grown adult could justify this. But still, if it were bankruptable, the lender wouldn't have approved it. (Unless perhaps that lender is the US govt!)
The endless funding needs to be cut. Not everyone who wants to go to college deserves to go to college. Given the current endless loan system, some people need to be protected from themselves. Degrees with less than zero economic ROI for the students (unless they become professors or administrators) are a drain on society, and contribute to the woke navel gazing that has almost destroyed us.
I've said it before, student loans should be bankruptable, that would be both fair (too many 18 olds don't really know what their degree will be worth) and cut down on unlimited funding for degrees in DEI and transgender studies.
The removal of bankruptcy rights lies at the core of this whole scam. The Founders were smart when they called for them ahead of the power to raise an army and declare war. It's not just for relief. It's to keep the lending side honest and prices rational.
We can thank Joe Biden for his bankruptcy bill to aid his corporate donors in Delaware. Genocide Joe was surely one of the most blatantly corrupt and disastrous presidents in our history. Vietnam draft dodger and cheerleader for the racist War on Drugs, architect of mass incarceration with his 1994 Crime Bill, primary Democratic cheerleader for the war in Iraq, Obama’s point man in using Ukraine to provoke Russia—while enriching himself at their expense, and his final, world historical crime: supporting and funding the Israeli genocide of Palestinians
You had me right to the end where you plead the case of genocidal maniacs in Gaza.
So you see through the war on drugs but not an ultra-violent “Greater Israel” as funded by the American taxpayer? Okaaaay…
Agreed, I quickly clicked the "like" icon on the comment -- and I won't unlike it, but I agree with your qualification. (and clicked on the "like" icon for your comment too :-)
And there I was, having a pleasant week…until you brought Joe’s name into the convo.
Congrats Alan, very nice to see your cause and tireless efforts front and center in Matt's piece!
Right! Thanks- There are lots stories of college profligacy around to be told.
...Pretty bad that Matt is one of the few people around who are writing about it. SMH...
Harvard--alone--could pay the full tuition and fees for every undergraduate and graduate student at all the Ivy League schools--in perpetuity--and miss it less than Columbia would miss the $300 million they're too cheap to pay.
Those in control have no true interest in the welfare of society. As in all large organizations, including governments and corporations, intelligent sociopaths are nearly always the ones who eventually rise to the top. It is what underpins the perpetual but arguably unnecessary antisocial consequences of iron law of oligarchy. It is thus can be seen as, really, our biggest political problem, if we were only sufficiently aware. If so, then capitalism, socialism, left, right, etc. are all lesser questions, because all can be, and are, corrupted by sociopathy.
I guarantee you that if universities had to back their own student loans, loans for ‘midwit intersectionality degrees’ would be almost non existent because there’s almost no ability to pay it back.
Also, I’ve often wondered why different degree programs don’t have a different pricing structure based on ROI of said degree. As in... we need social workers or speech pathologists, but they don’t make as much, so why aren’t their degree less expensive? At least for classes in their major, to prevent kids from starting out in a less expensive major just because it’s cheaper then switching to a more expensive one.
And one more... why can’t companies sponsor a student’s tuition with an agreement of X years at the company after graduation? It’s essentially what the military does at the academies and ROTC. I’ve always thought that would be a huge boon to kids who are smart with no resources. I know it’s against the rules, but does it have to be?
Excuse my rant, but the way we fund higher education has always bothered me, and I’m a massage therapist with way too much time to think about these things, lol.
Valerie, you may be a massage therapist, but you make way more sense than most university faculty.
Thank you. I have a degree in finance and international business, this is my pretirement job. But I honestly wish I’d done it 20 years ago, best job ever.
Interesting idea.
I was a smart kid with no resources. So I joined my college’s ROTC program to help pay for my degree. It covered ~60% of costs so I still had to take out loans to cover the rest. After graduating I had a “guaranteed” job in the military making a whopping $29k/yr and went straight into the GWOT meatgrinder.
If a private company had instead offered to pay for my degree in exchange for several yrs of working for them at a decent salary without having to risk my life, hell yeah I would’ve taken them up on it!
That’s what I’m saying! Especially if it’s something rather nichey where the new grad is going to have to be trained on the job anyway after graduating. They can work at the company in the summers and get some of that taken care of. I think it would be great.
Yep engineering programs do that with co-op programs. But not for useless underwater basketweaving majors etc.
Those "useless underwater basketweaving majors" get hired by engineering firms to deal with the public because engineers are too specialized in their education.
But do you really need to spend tens of thousands of dollars and 4 yrs on a degree just to communicate with people? It’s unnecessary and fuels the college grifting scheme.
Communication is hard. You have to have a breadth of experience to try to anticipate what other people might think about how and what you say. You have to assess context. Moving from the often incredibly specialized philosophy and perspective that engineers swim in to the perspective of a customer is often like translating from one language to another. If you work for an international firm, the difficulties increase exponentially. And, that's just at work. It doesn't even begin to cover the much more difficult task of training a good citizen.
That was the yes answer. The no answer is that the student does not need to spend that money. The expense of education can be paid by the public, which benefits immensely from an educated people.
Don’t let anyone lie to you: Speech Pathologists make great money. Why do you think I married one? 😄
Love your idea. Think "Buy Here - Pay Here" model of financing, as happens at a used car lot. This would be a self-regulating lending plan, but even better than Honest John's Used Autos, since the student does not hold collateral that the University could repossess, Universities would be way more cautious in giving loans in exchange for worthless degrees.
Exactly
100% agree with the 'midwit intersectionality degrees'! 😄
I think state colleges should charge what degrees cost, no more, no less. Or less, if the public agrees to subsidize them, in which case the baseline would be to subsidize all degrees equally, on a percentage basis.
Also agree it seems like enterprising companies would sponsor people for degrees they need; perhaps they don't because they already have all the graduates they need, and they compete for the best based on salary. Which puts the risk back on the student - so why would companies take the risk, if students are willing to do it for them?
You method works if there are plenty of qualified candidates in a particular career field. But if not, my method may be a way to make sure we have people doing the lower paying jobs without being stuck with a lifetime of debt for it.
Bearing the brunt of your decisions is what grows you up.
Only student loans get 18yo kids in debt for 100k for something they can't even begin to pay off. No one is lending them 100k to buy a sports car when they don't have a job, and won't for at least 4 years.
In most cases they're not even allowed to buy alcohol, but colleges can talk them into taking these loans without a parent being present?
My grandson went to state university and I helped him with the process. They were excellent at spelling out the consequences of taking out student loans, comparing them to a 20 year car payment for example.
My kids haven't done loans, but when we put out feelers, I got the distinct impression the university people didn't want parents involved, at least when it came to actually asking questions.
No college put me up to getting pregnant at 17. My boyfriend and I got married and had to deal with our poor decisions. Being responsible for our actions grew us up and 46 years later, we're still married. Yes, it was difficult and not an ideal situation in which to start our adult lives, but I'm grateful for the life lessons. There are a lot of things you can do before 21 years of age that will impact your future life.
Exactly, and it's about time they grow up.
Colleges and Universities have the wherewithal to make and administer tuition loans, themselves, and without taxpayer guarantees. It would probably be another source of revenue, but they might feel compelled to be certain those receiving the loans understand what they are getting into, and are able to repay.
Navel-gazing is indeed stupid, but has almost destroyed us? I’m more inclined to blame 800 military bases around the world, multiple endless wars we have no real stake in, and our financing of universal healthcare in Israel while Americans have to launch Go Fund Me campaigns to pay for cancer treatment.
If people got degrees that actually lead to productive work, if teachers actually taught reading writing and arithmetic well (we might need to pay good teachers better), then we'd have a more dynamic economy that actually produced more goods and services and a stronger tax base to pay for all those pax Americana bases. Not sure what to do about healthcare, which is fundamentally broken. The American right doesn't seem to have an appetite for any system which would cut middlemen and inefficiency and provide protection for those with pre-existing conditions, or if we do, I haven't heard it.
The problem is that they're pushing reading and writing on kids whether or not they're ready for it. There's no evidence for the idea that kids won't learn to read or write without being pressured into doing it, and there's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that this practice teaches kids to hate those things, like it does with math. (Insofar as anyone can get funded to research the failure of this approach I would bet all of it speaks to it doing more harm than good.) It's past time to fundamentally overhaul public education away from coercion and one-size-fits-all milestones and toward giving kids agency over their own education. Not only would this prove infinitely less alienating, it would also be greatly more effective, though the education industry would not make the killing it does now, which tells you what road we're overwhelmingly likely to take.
I have read about people with a quarter-million in student debt for master's degrees in film studies and similar degrees that are very expensive and extremely unlikely to lead to an actual job. The schools themselves are pushing these master's programs on students, as the article said, because the tuition is so high and loans are available. No thought for the student at all.
Yep. Risk free and high profit for colleges.
I saw an interview with a teacher who went a quarter million in debt for a master's in education, probably worth about 2k a year in income body. Ridiculous. Mind you, I'm not sure how a grown adult could justify this. But still, if it were bankruptable, the lender wouldn't have approved it. (Unless perhaps that lender is the US govt!)
If they "want-to" enough, they will find a way.