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Yuri Bezmenov's avatar

Many "intelligent" people keep voting Democrat even after they are impacted personally by higher taxes, crime, etc. Check out the cases of Josh Kreuger, Ryan Carson, and Pava Lapere. You cannot reason with a demoralized person, my namesake tried to warn us in 1984: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/how-to-reason-with-a-demoralized-person-yuri

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Woke_Capital's avatar

Democrats are an awful lot and so are republicans. Both parties and their mindless partisan live to desecrate the first mandate of the constitution which is to strive “for a more perfect union.” Selfishly voting out of economic interests while the parties actively collude to divide us is anti-American.

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JennyStokes's avatar

SO why do Amerikans why do they not vote for people (3rd party)?

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Fukitol's avatar

Because we have a first-past-the-post voting system, not a parliamentary system, alternative vote, or any of the other systems that make third parties viable options. Look these things up and learn about their systemic consequences and all will be revealed.

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Charles Newlin's avatar

Watch out for the occasional "affiliation" polls. "Affiliation," in this case, is the percentage of American voters who will admit to a pollster that they belong to one party or the other. That number has been falling for more than a decade; it's presently about 30% EACH. In other words, 60%, a solid majority, are "independents" - everybody else. Or, "A Pox on Both Your Houses," which would be a good name for a 3rd party. No wonder turnout is so low.

Personally, I've been a Green, and advocated for that party in comments, for about 3 decades - since Clinton. But at this point, I'm sufficiently disgusted with my own party that I've stopped advocating for it.

Maybe just vote NO, instead.

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Turd_Ferguson's avatar

We need another Montgomery Brewster candidate to campaign for "None Of The Above."

Or we all just write in "Giant Meteor."

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Charles Newlin's avatar

Oops, looks like I can't do arithmetic any more. It's FORTY percent, a plurality, not a majority. There is no majority. However, in our system, a plurality is enough - and it's well on its way to a majority.

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Fukitol's avatar

It's only enough if they all were to agree to support a single third party, in the long term so that it would dethrone one of the other two. Which isn't likely since independents form a much broader spectrum of political ideas than the present duoploy. But independents do perform a useful function of playing occasional kingmaker, either by spoiling the vote or throwing in behind one party to punish the other.

Unfortunately this is only doable when there is a meaningful difference between duopoly candidates on any topic independents care about.

For example although independents as a group have stronger anti-war stances than either Rs or Ds, the duopoly is united on the subject of bombing as many people as is feasible so independents can't push on this issue.

Counter example, on abortion independents are almost as divided as the duoploy and anyway it's usually not a deciding factor in a election, so again independents aren't able to wield influence.

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Orenv's avatar

Not all the duopoly is for war. But we keep electing members of our "team" as if it doesn't matter.

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Fukitol's avatar

Yeah, they seem to be willing to tolerate a handful of anti-war congresscritters as long as they're not anywhere near big enough to form a coalition. That way you get your "I'm a Ron Paul/Bernie guy, I'm against all this" goodfeelz without getting anything done.

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Matt Hawthorn's avatar

Yeah but your initial numbers were incorrect. It's really only 25% registered to each party as of this year. So the unaffiliated are very nearly a true majority now.

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Charles Newlin's avatar

Yes, forgot that. Thank you. Furthermore, major party affiliation is dropping steadily, for obvious reasons.

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Matt Hawthorn's avatar

Ah nevermind, the most recent I could find from Gallup actually put it at 28% each, which is less than 30 but still closer to your number... Guess it was wishful thinking on my part. Could have sworn I saw the 25% number somewhere recently...

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Charles Newlin's avatar

I saw 25% recently, too. Maybe it bounced back up.

In any case, we're living through a major overturn in the party system.

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feldspar's avatar

Most "independents" lean toward one party or the other and almost always vote accordingly---if they vote at all.

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Rikki's avatar

Because unlike where you (probably) live it’s insanely diverse with massive variance in lifestyles and values. So the ‘big issues’ tend to be more fundamental in nature. Abortion. Guns. Healthcare. Religion.

At least that’s my theory. Hard to be a pro abortion anti-gun evangelical socialist. If there were to be a powerful third party it might be in form of a racial minority coalition (Eg, African-Americans abandon democrats but don’t join republicans.... see evangelical socialists above). We’ll see.

Gotta live here to understand it otherwise too easy to throw stones - especially with your own (likely state owned) media brainwashing you, too.

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Woke_Capital's avatar

But abortion wasn’t really an issue until the early 90s. Bush Sr. supported abortion rights. As for guns, we had a federal ban on assault rifles between 1994-04. And healthcare became an explosive topic in the wake of the anti-Obama hysteria of the Tea party. So it seems to me that the American public is constantly being agitated from the top to elicit the division than then allows the elites to plunder and pillage without fear of the mob ever going for the pitchforks.

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Elizabeth's avatar

What is your reference for George H.W. Busch Sr. ‘S support for abortion rights? I know he supported planned parenthood, mainly because it provided medical services like gyn exams and birth control. He did support abortion for the health of the mother and rape or incest but not for routine or general abortions. He also was opposed to any federal money used for abortion procedures. His wife was pro choice but, I don’t think he left any written or oral record that he supported it.

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Woke_Capital's avatar

Running for Congress in 1978, Bush had said that the decision to have an abortion should be a woman's personal decision, but he declared that he was anti-abortion in 1994. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_George_W._Bush

He turned in the 1990s

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Elizabeth's avatar

Thank you, in your post you referred to Bush Sr. That is who I was asking about. I knew what the younger Pres. Bush’s views on abortion were. I’m curious if you have found some archived speech or official record of his father supporting abortion rights as you indicated in your previous post.

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JennyStokes's avatar

I lived in the USA for 23yrs. No-one cared about Politics. You just bought your toys and had fun! I lived in a 'left leaning' Canyon close to LA. We were called 'pinkos.'

Left is Socialism or Liberal Socialism (in France) which means we have free Healthcare/Education

Right means you will have nothing to help people!

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Harry Potter's avatar

That’s a lazy characterization of the right. That they will do nothing to help people. If it’s possible to distill it down this way, the right, conservatives, are for less government and more self determination. Independence. Being in favor of and offering largesse to the people hasn’t exactly led to good outcomes. The nuclear family is disappearing, dads not in the home, especially in families of color. What used to be a good thing was when the natural tension of the rights instincts to do less met with the left’s desire to do something, resulted in a compromise that was reasonable. We cannot do that anymore. The left has a voracious appetite for power and is uncompromising, the right has reached a place of zero trust that they can bargain in good faith. So here we are. Taibi’s coverage of the police state shows how the left, for all the claims to the contrary about the right, Trump et al, are the real Nazis.

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feldspar's avatar

I love it how merry-go-round riding right-wingers, without even batting one of their jaundiced eyes on their straightened faces, can reel off a knee-jerker such as:

"...Ya, the good old days when the right did nothing for anyone or anybody, and the left countered that by actually doing something for some people and it resulted in a compromise that was all good and reasonable.

Ya, the good ol' days when all was good and reasonable. Same as it ever was...

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policestateshill's avatar

Another brilliant, one word response lacking any substance. Keep wowing us with your profundity feldspar!

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Outis's avatar

Bravo. Yes. Stokes is wrong; many people have been very concerned about these issues all along. For instance, remember William F. Buckley's "Firing Line"?

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Dawn I. Martin's avatar

I appreciate your “distilling”.

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Rikki's avatar

You had me at left-leaning canyon near L.A.

Perfect vantage point to observe the diversity of American life.

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Milo Gerber's avatar

Hilarious. I can hear it now. 'Oh I know all about the USA! Lazy, fat, ignorant....I only survived it thanks to my little enclave of LA moderates! The rest are pure materialistic, and have no concept of social responsibility.' Except when the rest of the world needs it. Time to step-up, France. You have made yourselves irrelevant in the big scheme of things. Indeed we are, to some extent, what everyone says we are. But we saved your a$$e$! And still do - to permit your paltry contributions to your defense, and the largesse you've enjoyed and can no longer afford. Money grows on trees in western Europe, or floats on oceans.....

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Rikki's avatar

People hate this sentiment but at its core is truth. Same for Canada.

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Castor Bean's avatar

lol, what largesse? The free education and health care we don't have and Israel does? Or, tax cuts for the rich every President has doled out since Reagan? Or maybe you mean the largesse that has blindly gone to the war machine for the last 30 years. Oh, I know, the largesse Obama gave the bank bailouts and threw homeowners under the bus for. Only thing dumber than Democrats spewing their talking points are Republicans spewing theirs. Partisans who believe the bull shit coming out of either party are complete fools. Only difference between the two is that conservatives are also batshit crazy. We have a religious zealot and bigot as Speaker of the House thanks to the largesse of Republicans.

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Shawn's avatar

You get 13 years of free education at a cost of $240,000 per student and a large percentage of them can not read?

As for free healthcare there are 16 million people aka double the population if Israel on our disability system aka free medical, education and houaing. Double that is on Medicare, government healthcare.

As for these "tax cuts" for the rich, I would love to know what you think is rich. If it is making 1 million dollars a year, I have some personal experience with those taxes.

Counting just state,local,and federal income tax, plus property tax I personally pay 47 percent of my income in taxes.

So tell me, I work 47 percent of the year for no benefit to myself. I have no kids and I live on a dirt road, I use my tractor to keep clear my ditches since the school system get 66 percent of the property taxes the county cant afford ditch or road work.

For every one of my employees I pay a 7.5 percent tax to the government so if I pay them 100 dollars i pay the government $7.50

I also pay for health insurance for all of my employees at significant cost.

So how much more do you want to tax the rich? Also, what do we get for all this spending?

I assume you want free college too, so myself and some old plumbers should pay more taxes so kids can get drunk and party until they are 22? And of course we will have no specific requirements on this free education so literally everyone could get a degree in psychology and we will have zero electricians, because who is going to apprentice and actually work when they could be at a frat party

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feldspar's avatar

Dirt road in a school district? Where do you live? 1870s West Virginia?

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Shawn's avatar

Also, my power goes out 10 times a year for over 3 days at a time.

Meanwhile my state is spending 100 million dollars for an exploaratory committee to look into high speed rail. We have the 26th worst roads in the nation and our democratic governor shut our state down and masked everyone for 18 months. My family couldn't drive down my dirt road to celebrate Thanksgiving 2 Thanksgivings ago because of the lockdown and my great uncle died alone in a hospital because of the lockdown and we couldnt have a funeral for him.

This is what I get for my taxes and 22 years of voting Democrat.

The roads suck, the utilities suck, the schools are moving to 4 days a week but they want more money anyway.

Our government has spent 110 billion in Ukraine, my federal tax dollars go to subsidize subways in New York, bridges in California, and locally we have a public bus system that costs us $34 per passenger per ride for a ride that averages 4.2 miles. Basically terrible for the economy and terrible for the environment but they are voting in more public transit despite the obvious fact that no one wants to use it because it is inconvenient and take an hour to go the distance a car takes you in 15 minutes and when you get there you are still no where near your house.

Because no democrat city can admit they are not europe and that busses are stupid for 95 percent of America that lacks a dense enough population, but we blow money on it instead of fixing the roads.

Lets talk about other stupidity 1/3 of my property taxes go to community colleges, that give people degrees that really give them no added wage. You know the statistics on people with college degrees make more than other people on average? That is a dumb statistic since it includes literally the richest people on earth in it.

For everyone who isnt in the the top 5 percent of educational proficiency they leave college to get a job they would have gotten without the degree, like a store manager at a retail store. Its a good job and I don't knock it but had the person skipped college and had 4 to 6 years of experience instead they would be substantially further ahead in life in many ways, financially only being one of them.

But we will subsidize all the colleges, all the wars, all the investigations into bullet trains long before we have adequate roads, ditches, and utilities.

Mind you I want to college, no place fun, an engineering school in a dangerous city. My parents despite being blue collar made just enough so I couldn't get any FAFSA money. I got a scholarship for my near perfect SAT and my 2 points off from perfect ACT but my scholarship was only about 10 percent of my tuition. I couldn't get into any of the Ivy Leagues I wanted to, but the girl I tutored in AP calc to help her get from an F to a C she got a full ride offer to Harvard. See her parents were very clever they don't get married in the united states, they are married in their home country and even though she lives in a mansion and her father is a multi millionaire her mother has no income at all and since as far as the United States knows on paper she has no father in the states. Full Ride, she even got a free cell phone under the Obama plan, she used it as her burner for guys she didnt like, because of course her dad always bought her the newest phone as soon as it came out, he would wait in line at the Apple Store in Chicago to get it.

Never bothered me much I knew I would still do well, but it hurts when your a kid when college seems so important and you dream of MIT. In the end it all worked out I started my own company and paid off my debts and now can take my parents on vacations and provide a job to some family who cant live off their retirements with current inflation.

But this is a rough America, that makes angry young men. When you are certainly not rich,when your parents work 12 hours a day, when you buy your first car with your part time job so you fall asleep in class because you worked all night.(I fell asleep during my ACT) when your car has a headliner you had to pull out and you can see through the floorboard and you drive into work and after to hear about your privilege its upsetting. When you can't get scholarships because luckily you were born white (still waiting on my white person check). Or when there are scholarships for rich white girls from families of doctors and lawyers, because they are opressed somehow, despite it seemingly like they run the show at school and everywhere else you go.

It makes you wonder what your voting for, why do I have to hate myself so much that I have to vote for everyone elses freedom but my own. I voted for a woman's right to choose even though I always felt it was my responsibility to wear protection and be cautious with sex. I voted for gay rights and marriage rights because yes people should be able to do what they want and love who they want. I VOTED FOR A PERSONS RIGHT TO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG THAT I FOUGHT FOR PERSONALLY BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I voted for everyone elses rights.

Then Covid happened and all those people I voted for that told me they were all about freedom and all about peoples right to choose how to live.

They told me I couldnt run my business.

They made me send my employees home (and still pay them)

They told me I couldn't go out to eat, see a movie, spend time with my family and loved ones.

They made me wear a mask

They made me get medical tests done

If I wantes to travel to do what work I was still allowed to do I had to test, mask and get an injection of an experimental vaccine.

And if I complained about it they took that speech away too. They took away even my right to be publically upset about what was happening.

So what am I voting for?

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JD's avatar

Business owner here employing about 200 manufacturing associates. Shawn, couldn't have said it better. Right now, 2:30 am, I'm awake figuring out growth opportunities, mitigating health care increases (which btw, largely come in the form of hidden taxes bc the government pays way under market value, thus shifting shortages to private insurers. Want a guess as to gets blamed for it?)., solving supply shortages, the list goes on

I wouldn't trade it for anything. Love it. Like you, the "tax cut" bs constantly spewed by leftists piss me off to no end. Add all the taxes and fees together, we pay over half our income in taxes to agencies that deliver inexcusable service while investing zero blood, sweat, and tears into the endeavor (along with no risk). My state DMV accidentally released a duplicate license to an identity thief. He promptly stole my identity and successfully applied for hundreds of thousands of dollars. The state finally issued a, "I think we screwed up" letter 4 months later. I shudder thinking about the time, hassle and money that went into resolution. They followed up with another letter I still have to carry "so you don't get arrested by an officer not sure if you're the real guy or fake. How nice!

I have no recourse vs.the state.. I can't sue them. I can't go anywhere else to get a license. I'm forced into transactions with an entity that not only can't get basics right, they made the worst mistake you can make. What if our company suffered a data breach, allowing thieves to heist our 200 employees' identity? Say hello, class action lawsuit

The cherry on top, of course, is hearing, "you didn't build that!" and, "you don't pay your fair share" from a bunch of people who collectively out-benefit the very people actually building the business with no consequences for the failures we paid for. Infuriating

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policestateshill's avatar

It’s called rural America feldspar. Maybe you should drive around and check it out. You might learn something.

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feldspar's avatar

I'm also a farmer, motherfucker. Don't get much more rural then that.

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feldspar's avatar

I don't have to drive around to find rural America---I just walk out the door. I live in rural America. Thought I was one of them smartass, know-it-all, nose-in-the-air city slickers, dincha?

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Shawn's avatar

Welcome to how American Taxes are spent. I live within 10 miles of University of Michigan, I pay over $24K a year in property taxes and live on a dirt road, no gas utilities, no city water, but I pay enough income taxes to cover welfare for 14 people.

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feldspar's avatar

That's noble of you. We need more Americans like you. Citizens willing to sacrifice and live without so that others---those less fortunate and in straightened circumstances---may survive and one day perhaps...even thrive.

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Orenv's avatar

26 these days.

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William Taylor's avatar

Conservatives are not batshit crazy. They don't run for office.

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Outis's avatar

As the joke goes, some people get rich and then run for office, others run for office to get rich. Consider the fortunes of Pelosi, Obama, Biden, the Clintons, etc.

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Neil Kellen's avatar

Your healthcare and education are not free. Do you think the workers in those fields are doing their work without pay? Do you think builders are making hospitals without billing the government? Those textbooks - magically made from nothing for nothing? You are paying far more than you know for your education and healthcare - and not just in money.

Did you know that the "right" in the US generates considerably more of it's time and money to charity than does the "left"?

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feldspar's avatar

Whatever the fuck all that means.

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policestateshill's avatar

Do you ever say anything of substance? I’m beginning to think you’re aid bot. Surely, no human could be this vapid?!

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Milo Gerber's avatar

We've paid also! Prior to the end of WWII, Euro countries paid huge portions of GDP to defense spending, then tried twice to destroy themselves and much of the rest of the world. Since then, WE'VE paid for the defense of all of them....releasing them to replace defense spending with expansive (and ultimately unaffordable) social welfare programs.

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Neil Kellen's avatar

I hadn't connected the two...but it makes sense...

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Orenv's avatar

There was an article in the Fake News NY Times a while back called "bleeding heart tightwads". It used to be searchable that detailed all of this.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Idiot of course they're not free. We pay higher taxes than in the US so that people all people have healthcare.

We care about people who don't have much. It's called Liberal Socialism. Most of the world has this but of course people in the US don't need it. Just happy for old people to die on the street!

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Shawn's avatar

Old people in the U.S. have healthcare and social security, we just do not free ride rhe young and able bodied.

Alsi, as for free healthcare, Canadians have rhat and still over 30 percent of them pay for additional insurance coverage. Also, they flock over the border for MRIs and other medical scans to the U.S. because Canada's system is so backed up.

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Neil Kellen's avatar

ummm....but you called it free...so is it free or is it not free? Or, in your mind, does "free" mean "paid for by someone else"?

I was in a socialized medicine country once, a very advanced country, during a time when I needed medical care. I got what I paid for.

You say you care, but do nothing other than spend other people's money. Oh, that's soooo gracious of you! You must be so proud of yourself!

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Sera's avatar

Why do people feel the need to clog up these columns with pointless semantic arguments? Everyone knows what was meant. Free healthcare means it’s paid out of taxes and not out of pocket. It’s like the people who need to remind us that organic apples are made out of ‘chemicals’, or that a cake is a ‘processed’ food.

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Neil Kellen's avatar

Because they aren't "pointless". Many people actually don't think through what "free" or "subsidized by the government" means. I'm betting you are one of them.

"Paid out of taxes" is equal to "paid out of pocket".

Stop using incorrect terminology. Geez...

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Shawn's avatar

Taxes come out of pockets. Paying something witg taxes just distributes responsibility. Which is a problem in this country as well eat yourself obese and get free healthcare.

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feldspar's avatar

You're relatively new to this site. For the most part, semantic arguments are all you'll find here.

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policestateshill's avatar

Because you add so much substance, right lil’ Johnny?

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JennyStokes's avatar

Subsidized by the Govt of course.

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policestateshill's avatar

Were you alive during the Covid pandemic? I think there’s never been a more powerful argument against government run/centralized healthcare than what we lived through the last 3 years. I think I could do with a lot less “help” from the government.

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feldspar's avatar

How so? We don't have "government run/centralized healthcare." We have an incredibly expensive, inefficient, ineffective system run by private corporations.

And those mendacious corporations are making a killing killing us.

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policestateshill's avatar

Yes, we have an incredibly inefficient and expensive system because that’s how the government set it up. The Obama Administration sat down with those corporations and then they wrote the rules together such that a massive transfer of American wealth to those companies and government actors inevitably followed. It’s called regulatory capture. Guess what’s not the solution, lil’ Johnny? More government. Because guess what will happen when they sit down to “solve” the problems they created? You guessed it! Good job, little man! They’ll create more problems! You’re finally starting to learn. Now run along to bed.

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JennyStokes's avatar

We had lockdown for 3 weeks...it was wonderful. No cars, birds singing.

You have absolutely no idea how Healthcare systems work. Every country in Europe + Australia/NZ/Sri Lanka etc etc. Look it up. When people are cared for properly and have decent education they are happier.

I hope you don't get something awful one day!

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policestateshill's avatar

The state isn’t capable of caring for people properly. We need to get back to centering our care at the doctor patient level. The state has created massive bureaucracies that separate people from their primary care provider and tie their hands, worsening care and making it more and more expensive each year.

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feldspar's avatar

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

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policestateshill's avatar

Some states locked down for years. They shut down mom and pops throughout the country while the Walmarts and Amazons of the world were allowed to stay open and gobble up market share. That’s all on Dems. The Biden admin mandated an experimental shot for people that were not at risk from the virus. They lost their jobs because of the Biden admin. They mandated masks for 2 year olds. What they did was evil. I can’t have a conversation with someone who is just completely dishonest and detached from reality. All of the ideas of the left have been fully discredited. We should be talking about Nuremberg trials for these people but people like you are stuck in a false reality constructed for you by our fake elites. It’s sad.

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feldspar's avatar

Can't have a conversation? Good, then shut the fuck up and take your lies and propaganda with you. Fuck outta here.

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JennyStokes's avatar

"Locked down for years."??????

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Stxbuck's avatar

This is a really good analysis. Most people don’t vote on purely economic issues, they vote on issues that resonate personally with them. If you are a gay or alienated type person who grew up in an evangelical-influenced environment-family or town, you aren’t voting for an R even if you don’t like Bidenomics. If you are a big 2nd Anendment person, there aren’t any Ds left to vote for besides Joe Mancin. For African Americans, there is still a huge stigma in the community for voting GOP, b/c it is seen-correctly-as the pro-cop party. Corporate social posturing-and thus potential career advancement-is completely in the D/woke wheelhouse.

Abortion is becoming a difficult issue for the GOP-it is hurting GOP candidates on state level races. Just like one doesn’t see pro 2A Ds, pro-choice GOPers are increasingly rare-and the issue is now open on the state level. I’m a pro-life libertarian, but I see how the issue is benefiting the Ds.

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Orenv's avatar

It isn't hard to be pro killing of fetus's and anti-guns. It depends on whether or not you consider a fetus to be a human being. It if is a cluster of cells then it is easy to kill it. There may be some disagreement about clusters of cells. Some might see that right up to the time the umbilical cord is cut.

Evangelicals can be socialists. But we say that we are not interested in a theocracy.

The third party exists and it is right in front of us. We keep electing our "team" even when they don't work as if they are on our "team". Congress is supposedly not liked, but they are more likely to die in office or retire than get voted out.

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Rikki's avatar

I think you missed my intended point entirely but that’s ok, I didn’t exactly edit the original response for clarity, either. No worries.

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Danno's avatar

I have. Patrick Buchanan (twice), and Ralph Nader (also twice). The other 3rd Party candidates seemed like they were bought off just like the D & R candidates.

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JennyStokes's avatar

I really think that the DNC should be done away with!

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Orenv's avatar

There were a great many opportunities to change who won the elections for dog catcher on up to Senator that you did not comment on. Not coming down on you per se, but for the readers, there are many elections, and they all matter. The dog catcher becomes the Senator.

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Shawn's avatar

Everyone needs to start voting for themselves, things that actually impact them. Most people vote for a percieved benefit to someone else, like people voting as abortion rights being a primary issue. I don't care if you can or can not get abortions but since less than 1 percent of the nation will need to get an abortion it seems silly to vote on that as a primary issue.

Now I get that you are voting out of some altruism, like voting Democrat is better for minorities, that is a feeling many Democrat voters have that are not minorities, but since the issue doesn't actually impact you, you do not actually have first hand knowledge that Democrat vote is for minorities.

When we vote for "other people" not out of our own benefit you actually get bad results. Because how we vote and how webare controlled to vote impacts our politicians. If everyone voted selfishly politicians might actually have to DO things that benefit us because as a swlfish voter you would KNOW if you were benefitted.

Think about this like an ice cream parlor, imagine the ice cream parlor has 16 flavors and they make new flavors based on popularity of the existing ones and instead of picking ice cream you want to eat you see a sign that says eating the Kale and Kelp Ice Cream is good for pregnant women, so you order the god awful ice cream because if you don't maybe the parlor won't keep making that ice cream pregnant women eat.

Of course its terrible ice cream and of course the parlor keeps making more of it but do you know if pregalnant women are ever actually eating the Kale and Kelp Ice Cream? Or are you just pissing money down the drain and stopping the ice cream parlor from replacing that flavor with something someone might like.

Why does a brilliant black man who was an adult during Jim Crowe, educated at Harvard and Chicago on Merit scholarships, was a young communist until finishing his PHD, but now believes Democrats are destroying black America. Read Thomas Sowell and start thinking.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I agree about the voting for self-interest but I think the 50/50 split among the electorate makes that easier. They can just say we can't negotiate with the other because it will alienate our base. We need a 60/40 split.

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23 SKIDOO!'s avatar

I think it's yet to be empirically proven, other than through editorializing, whether higher taxes, crime, etc., aren't also a product of republican voting, though perhaps propagandized by the right using different rhetorical moves. Bottom line is that it's a scam, and part of that scam is emphasizing false claims about how democratic policies across the board result in XYZ while republican policies don't. Many Substack writers that think of themselves as "intelligent" seem to continue to run this scam rhetoric that you're putting across.

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An independent observer's avatar

It has been empirically proven that increasing crime in big cities, and the brazenness of criminals, and the inertia of law enforcement, have absolutely nothing to do with Republican voting because the government on ALL levels in these cities is from the Democratic party. You would have to use a magnifying glass and still would not find a Republican in the NYC government, for example. In local elections, you would have to register as a Democrat if you wanted your vote to be counted for a more moderate Democrat against progressive left extremists.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

Here in Illinois the Dems have a super legislative majority, and all State constitutional offices. Chicago hasn't had a Repub mayor or city council since . . . it's been awhile. State-wide cashless bail went into effect in Sept. Chicago is a sanctuary city and the Mayor needs more money to provide for the new arrivals. Chicago needs more money for failing schools and pension systems. So although one may live closer to Missouri than Chicago, all Illinois residents are going to pay.

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Outis's avatar

I'm in Chicago. The recent resistance on the west-side to the mayor's plan to use an open block to build a "heated tent" space may be indicative of change.

Look up the "Inn of Chicago". An arguably past-its-time hotel just off Michigan Avenue that's now a shelter for "migrants" (i.e., illegal immigrants). I feel for these people as they must be profoundly motivated to take the risk of traveling to enter the US illegally, but they're still breaking the law as their first step into the US. It's sad and it's also clearly unsustainable.

I have known and worked with numerous people from Venezuela: smart, educated and hardworking. What the Chavez/Maduro administrations have done to that country is both tragic and criminal. Venezuela is rich in natural resources; there's no logical or non-criminal reason for the country to be in the state that it is.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

And there is no logical or non-criminal reason for THIS country to be where it is now.

The border obliteration perpetrated by Obama 3.0 is part of a plan to transform America. But worse than that, it has been accomplished with a loving embrace of human trafficking to accomplish its goals, implemented by narco-terrorists. Talk about a war of proportionality. How many drug ODs kill Americans? All these children, especially girls --- what is their trip like on their way to "freedom" and "a better life?" What's it like after they get to their final destination? And our government is an accomplice in this, NOT an innocent bystander.

Jingoistic? Whatever other term is used to smear people who believe in the rule of law. This democracy only works if there are rules and everybody buys in at some basic level. Gangbangers being in charge of The Open Door, in partnership with our federal government. I think we are going to find out pretty soon that wasn't really in our best interest.

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Orenv's avatar

There is room for a $200B big guy cut from the cartels (who are permitted to operate under an authority that can legally use lethal force against them.)

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HV_Commissioning's avatar

I watched a special on the homeless problem on PBS. They visited a number of cities and spoke residents and government officials. When the Mayor of San Francisco had her turn, she basically blamed all of her cities problems on Republican's. The interviewer neither laughed or questioned the Mayor. The magnifying glass comment reminded me of this show.

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Castor Bean's avatar

And nothing else anywhere in the global economy, public policy, or anything else impacts people. Only their little tiny spot on the globe and local politics. It has been empirically proven that partisans are dumb. There is progressive left or conservative right. There are only corrupt politicians the people they make tools to keep them in power. Whether they're banning abortion or twerking naked in gay pride parades, identity politics is what passes for governance of, for and by the people. .

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An independent observer's avatar

Public policy - yea, it does impact people. As it relates to crime, it is the public policy of local government that affects it. If the local government does not want to prosecute people who steal hundreds $$$ worth of goods, then thugs feel brazen and invincible. Then local stores do not file police reports because police would not act on them and because they will be called racists. I do not believe global economy has anything to do with crime in our cities. I have not mentioned abortion rights here, and you don’t know my position on it, though I stated it in other posts. And I am far from being a partisan. As far as you can be lol. I have flipped between parties searching for someone to match my political believes more times than I can count and embarrassed to admit. Of course, extreme positions on both sides are a problem. But crime currently is where democrats govern because of their progressive and SJW view of law and order. And, unfortunately, moderate Democrats so far are loosing in this battle.

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Susan e's avatar

democratic policies across the board and republican policies across the board insure that the finance sector profits and middle Americans pay the bills. ......

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JennyStokes's avatar

This is because you have a 2 party system BOTH controlled by big money!

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Neil Kellen's avatar

finance, pharma, defense, teacher's union, and congressional families...

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Giant asteroid for 24's avatar

- I do not believe that anything in politics can be "empirically proven". Whether it is a statement that turns out to be provenly false "no deal with out a public option" or acknowledged policy that clearly is illegal, such as the murder of American citizens without due process. Nothing is empirically proven, it all is subject to revisionism and spin. George Bush threw out the first pitch of a baseball game last night although many would say it has been empirically proven he lied and led us into a war; but apparently that's not the case.

That is why politics is such an art that captures people's passion and imagination but seemingly does little to form a more perfect union as the poster above mentioned.

To blame to not blame, to call it a scam by one side and not the other; we are dealing with a coin that has heads on both sides.

I do not believe that the "intelligent" people here are blaming polices of XYZ on democrats. I think most if not all here know that both parties are (most likely) equally to blame as the powers in those parties feed at the same trough.

Being passionately dissolussioned by the Democratic party, the ACLU, wikipedia, etc is not promoting a scam. It's just expressing remorse at things folks wanted to believe but are not true, and being able to commiserate and bitch a little bit.

An interesting quote that Dick Cheney said onetime about whose politics are the cause for the successes and failures was something like " it's not until an administration or two after the one in which the policies were implemented that we see results"

He was referring to the first Bush "read my lips no new taxes". After Bush realized he needed to work with Congress to raise taxes to stave off economic calamity he lost when a conservative challenged him. We all know this ushered in Clinton who would have had no chance without Perot. We know the Clinton administration led to (in many ways) our current economic system.

As a side not- Does anyone remember the surplus, the "lock box" as Gore called it. Then we had the coup d'etat of 2000 and look who got to come in a spend all that money that republican politics (tax increases, contract with (on)America) had helped achieved....

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feldspar's avatar

"...I do not believe that the "intelligent" people here are blaming polices of XYZ on democrats."

Wholeheartedly agree.

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policestateshill's avatar

Who else should we blame for the policies that have been discredited in real time? Should we just ignore our eyes when we walk through cities swarming with homeless fentanyl addicts? Should we just ignore our eyes as we watch thousands walk across the border? Should we just ignore our eyes when we go to the corner store and see that everything is locked behind plexiglass? Your complete inability to connect cause and effect these past few years speaks to a lack of curiosity, intelligence, or both.

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Orenv's avatar

Parties are used by politicians to gain power. It is correct to assume that many politicians don't have a ideological base, or if they do, that their base actually aligns with their party. If you want to win in CA, you better call yourself a D. If you want to win in TN, you better call yourself an R.

However at the end of the day, if your one party state has a serious issue that is not being addressed, then it is correct to assume that the party itself is actually responsible. Notice how the D party gamed things to keep Bernie out of the Presidency. Parties do have strong influence due to money.

If you want your project done in CA, you better give to Democrats. If you want it done in TN, you better give to Republicans.

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LeftyMudersbach's avatar

23 Skidoo: “Empirically proven” means a basis of information obtained by experimentation and observation. I’d say people have observed a significant increase in crime in democrat run cities so your statement is incorrect. Regarding taxes, I’d say people have seen that cutting taxes has resulted in increased economic growth and improved real buying power so your statement is factually incorrect and your claim it’s a “scam” is nothing more than blame shifting.

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Orenv's avatar

Obama himself even said that it was more important to be perceived as taxing the rich than it was to generate revenues. He knew his tax policy would reduce income from what it would be otherwise, but it was a political exercise. He was more interested in the politics than the results. He is a politician.

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Marc's avatar

Your comment makes zero sense. You can literally track the history of which party has power and how they vote lol

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Neil Kellen's avatar

You are suffering from rectal-cranial inversion. Seek help immediately!

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policestateshill's avatar

Why don’t you go visit any big city in the country, Skidoo. Guess who runs them?

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policestateshill's avatar

Again, you’ve truly wowed us with your insight. I mean who would have thought it possible to distill this problem with a one word non sequitur? But you did it, you really did it! Good job, little man. Now run along to bed.

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Freedom Lover's avatar

Someone just claimed that Youngkin won in Virginia, because Asians, who value education, voted for him.

It took me the whole 25 seconds to prove him wrong: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/asian-americans-favored-democrats-wide-margin-high-profile-races-exit-rcna5024

Well, in America, Asians are just like blacks and Jews. All groups are screwed mightily and still vote for their soul owners. 😢

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