1. The teachings of science and medicine universally agree that trans people are real, that dysmorphia is a genuine condition for which treatment exist. I don't think there is even one medical or psychological consortium that doesn't largely proscribe transitioning as long-term treatment for persistent gender dysmorphia. Now I don't have…
1. The teachings of science and medicine universally agree that trans people are real, that dysmorphia is a genuine condition for which treatment exist. I don't think there is even one medical or psychological consortium that doesn't largely proscribe transitioning as long-term treatment for persistent gender dysmorphia. Now I don't have kids and am no expert on these issues, but really who (but another trans person) in this thread would be? I'm OK deferring to the people whose job it is to know the right things to do about this stuff. Is anyone arguing that every single member of the AMA, the Endocrine Society, the American Association of Mental Health Professionals, etc. has been coopted by radical transactivists into recommending medicinally unhelpful mistreatment of patients? That's a fast track to malpractice, poverty and possibly jail.
2. I'm sort of happy that you're fiercely loyal to calling things as they are, not as any party might wish them to be. I hope that your conviction encompasses the grotesque body mutilation that has been visited up children for decades now, called elective cosmetic surgeries, (in addition to the trans-related interventions you object to). After all--the cosmetic surgery industry represents over 230 billion dollars a year (which makes even the projected increases in trans surgical intervention over the next decade, possibly as high as 20 million dollars annually, a mere pittance). And while every single medical board and standards agency all agree that transitioning has some curative value, no one but plastic surgeons believes the same thing about cosmetic surgeries that are routinely--ROUTINELY!--performed on (mostly) girls and boys who are not yet teenagers. One of the most common surgeries? Rhinoplasty and....breast augmentations. Let that sink in. That's right... more ten year old girls will receive breast augmentations in one year than the entire number of <17 year old boys and girls will receive any sort of trans-related surgical intervention in five years. Ten year old girls. Getting breast enlargements. Talk about grooming.... Anyway, I'm sure you're as outraged about that, otherwise you'd look rather like a hypocrite.
3. Many people in this thread are so aggrieved over being asked to call someone by a pronoun or a proper noun that they believe doesn't tell the genetic truth of the person's identity. But what if I told you we've been doing this within human society for as long as we've had the institution of marriage? I mean, do you simply accept the new surname that a coworker wants you to use for her, when she returns from her honeymoon? Or do you give her a stern lecture about no matter how hard she wants to pretend she's now Ms. Johnson, it's empirically true that she is now and will always remain genetically a Ms. Robins? I'm just suggesting you exercise a modicum of the same kind of acceptance for trans people. That's all.
4. My favorite cat in all of history is F. Smiledon. That's the sabertooth tiger, a member of America's now-extinct megafauna that while not technically part of the Triassic epoch, is still routinely lumped into the group of infamous mega predators that common parlance will sometimes refer to as dinosaurs. And if you called that kitty a dinosaur I doubt it would care one way or the other. I know I wouldn't.
Uh, Joel--a big ol' no. Double ixnay on the kiddie cosmetic surgery hooey. In 2021, Americans spent a total of $14.6 billion on ALL cosmetic surgeries for all age groups. From what stagnant pond did you fish out the $230 billion figure? That figure nearly approximates the annual defense budget of China.
I pulled your paragraph (below) that consists of several different flavors, mostly sour, of nonsense. Do you have any documents, statistics, or news stories generated by reputable media, governmental agencies, NGOs, or studies in the medical literature that can speak to your assertions?
Maybe even some off-hand anecdotal material, say, a few 14-year old girls who are on record saying if they had it to do it all over again they'd be more patient and wait for the big tits until they turned 16? Anything at all that might buttress this nonsense that you have so charmingly shared with the group? Anything?
I've attached a link to the American Academy of Pediatrics site that might (or might not) be helpful. Or helpfully illuminating.
Curious as to who or what you're representing here. You definitely have the hyperbolic ghoul-speak perfected by right-wing fairy-tale merchants over the past few years down to spec: ..."the grotesque body mutilation that has been visited up children for decades now..."
"And while every single medical board and standards agency all agree that transitioning has some curative value, no one but plastic surgeons believes the same thing about cosmetic surgeries that are routinely--ROUTINELY!--performed on (mostly) girls and boys who are not yet teenagers. One of the most common surgeries? Rhinoplasty and....breast augmentations. Let that sink in."
"...That's right... more ten year old girls will receive breast augmentations in one year than the entire number of <17 year old boys and girls will receive any sort of trans-related surgical intervention in five years. Ten year old girls. Getting breast enlargements. Talk about grooming.... Anyway, I'm sure you're as outraged about that, otherwise you'd look rather like a hypocrite."
Feldspar, you know what? You're correct. My 230 billion dollar number was way off. I apologize. To clarify, I was quoting a figure that represented the estimated industry revenue growth over a ten year period. I keep a DRAFT email with snippets and excerpts that I refer to from time to time, which is where I mistakenly pulled my figure from. I apologize and I appreciate your fact-based correction. However, I would still assert that 14 billion dollars still eclipses the total value for the trans medical industry by orders of magnitude. My point was damaged by my own sloppy mistake, but I wouldn't say it is rendered incorrect. Do you disagree?
The second portion of my comment that you took issue with has to do with the vast difference between minors receiving breast augmentations versus any sort of trans-related surgical intervention. As far as I can tell, my point remains correct.
We have data suggesting that approximately 4,500 teenagers will get breast augmentation for any given year; meanwhile, despite there being no standardized database tracking numbers of trans surgeries for minors, we have a couple of different tracking entities and all point to the numbers of surgeries for trans kids (while certainly increasing by as much as 13 fold in the last two years) still being less than 300 cases per year.
To recap: your critique of my comment, which contained 4 distinct arguments, correctly identified one error within one of those 4 points. Does that mean that you agree with the rest--really, the vast majority--of my comment?
Thanks again for the fact check, btw. I really do appreciate it.
You're both a couple of obviously educated mental retards. I mean you're both fucking nuttier than fruitcakes. Wtf? You ought to be writing political speeches for the retards that run for office. Fuck. You'd both be fun to punch.
1. The teachings of science and medicine universally agree that trans people are real, that dysmorphia is a genuine condition for which treatment exist. I don't think there is even one medical or psychological consortium that doesn't largely proscribe transitioning as long-term treatment for persistent gender dysmorphia. Now I don't have kids and am no expert on these issues, but really who (but another trans person) in this thread would be? I'm OK deferring to the people whose job it is to know the right things to do about this stuff. Is anyone arguing that every single member of the AMA, the Endocrine Society, the American Association of Mental Health Professionals, etc. has been coopted by radical transactivists into recommending medicinally unhelpful mistreatment of patients? That's a fast track to malpractice, poverty and possibly jail.
2. I'm sort of happy that you're fiercely loyal to calling things as they are, not as any party might wish them to be. I hope that your conviction encompasses the grotesque body mutilation that has been visited up children for decades now, called elective cosmetic surgeries, (in addition to the trans-related interventions you object to). After all--the cosmetic surgery industry represents over 230 billion dollars a year (which makes even the projected increases in trans surgical intervention over the next decade, possibly as high as 20 million dollars annually, a mere pittance). And while every single medical board and standards agency all agree that transitioning has some curative value, no one but plastic surgeons believes the same thing about cosmetic surgeries that are routinely--ROUTINELY!--performed on (mostly) girls and boys who are not yet teenagers. One of the most common surgeries? Rhinoplasty and....breast augmentations. Let that sink in. That's right... more ten year old girls will receive breast augmentations in one year than the entire number of <17 year old boys and girls will receive any sort of trans-related surgical intervention in five years. Ten year old girls. Getting breast enlargements. Talk about grooming.... Anyway, I'm sure you're as outraged about that, otherwise you'd look rather like a hypocrite.
3. Many people in this thread are so aggrieved over being asked to call someone by a pronoun or a proper noun that they believe doesn't tell the genetic truth of the person's identity. But what if I told you we've been doing this within human society for as long as we've had the institution of marriage? I mean, do you simply accept the new surname that a coworker wants you to use for her, when she returns from her honeymoon? Or do you give her a stern lecture about no matter how hard she wants to pretend she's now Ms. Johnson, it's empirically true that she is now and will always remain genetically a Ms. Robins? I'm just suggesting you exercise a modicum of the same kind of acceptance for trans people. That's all.
4. My favorite cat in all of history is F. Smiledon. That's the sabertooth tiger, a member of America's now-extinct megafauna that while not technically part of the Triassic epoch, is still routinely lumped into the group of infamous mega predators that common parlance will sometimes refer to as dinosaurs. And if you called that kitty a dinosaur I doubt it would care one way or the other. I know I wouldn't.
Uh, Joel--a big ol' no. Double ixnay on the kiddie cosmetic surgery hooey. In 2021, Americans spent a total of $14.6 billion on ALL cosmetic surgeries for all age groups. From what stagnant pond did you fish out the $230 billion figure? That figure nearly approximates the annual defense budget of China.
I pulled your paragraph (below) that consists of several different flavors, mostly sour, of nonsense. Do you have any documents, statistics, or news stories generated by reputable media, governmental agencies, NGOs, or studies in the medical literature that can speak to your assertions?
Maybe even some off-hand anecdotal material, say, a few 14-year old girls who are on record saying if they had it to do it all over again they'd be more patient and wait for the big tits until they turned 16? Anything at all that might buttress this nonsense that you have so charmingly shared with the group? Anything?
I've attached a link to the American Academy of Pediatrics site that might (or might not) be helpful. Or helpfully illuminating.
Curious as to who or what you're representing here. You definitely have the hyperbolic ghoul-speak perfected by right-wing fairy-tale merchants over the past few years down to spec: ..."the grotesque body mutilation that has been visited up children for decades now..."
"And while every single medical board and standards agency all agree that transitioning has some curative value, no one but plastic surgeons believes the same thing about cosmetic surgeries that are routinely--ROUTINELY!--performed on (mostly) girls and boys who are not yet teenagers. One of the most common surgeries? Rhinoplasty and....breast augmentations. Let that sink in."
"...That's right... more ten year old girls will receive breast augmentations in one year than the entire number of <17 year old boys and girls will receive any sort of trans-related surgical intervention in five years. Ten year old girls. Getting breast enlargements. Talk about grooming.... Anyway, I'm sure you're as outraged about that, otherwise you'd look rather like a hypocrite."
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/puberty/Pages/Cosmetic-Surgery-in-Teens-Information-for-Parents.aspx#:~:text=There%20are%20no%20specific%20laws,children%20make%20the%20right%20decision.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281357/total-us-expenditure-on-surgical-and-nonsurgical-cosmetic-procedures/
Feldspar, you know what? You're correct. My 230 billion dollar number was way off. I apologize. To clarify, I was quoting a figure that represented the estimated industry revenue growth over a ten year period. I keep a DRAFT email with snippets and excerpts that I refer to from time to time, which is where I mistakenly pulled my figure from. I apologize and I appreciate your fact-based correction. However, I would still assert that 14 billion dollars still eclipses the total value for the trans medical industry by orders of magnitude. My point was damaged by my own sloppy mistake, but I wouldn't say it is rendered incorrect. Do you disagree?
The second portion of my comment that you took issue with has to do with the vast difference between minors receiving breast augmentations versus any sort of trans-related surgical intervention. As far as I can tell, my point remains correct.
We have data suggesting that approximately 4,500 teenagers will get breast augmentation for any given year; meanwhile, despite there being no standardized database tracking numbers of trans surgeries for minors, we have a couple of different tracking entities and all point to the numbers of surgeries for trans kids (while certainly increasing by as much as 13 fold in the last two years) still being less than 300 cases per year.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11392117/Trans-child-surgery-risen-13-TIMES-decade-hospitals.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706052/#:~:text=Nearly%20320%2C000%20breast%20augmentations%20were,%2C%2011%E2%80%9318%20years).
To recap: your critique of my comment, which contained 4 distinct arguments, correctly identified one error within one of those 4 points. Does that mean that you agree with the rest--really, the vast majority--of my comment?
Thanks again for the fact check, btw. I really do appreciate it.
You're both a couple of obviously educated mental retards. I mean you're both fucking nuttier than fruitcakes. Wtf? You ought to be writing political speeches for the retards that run for office. Fuck. You'd both be fun to punch.
Wokey-dokey.