There was a violent attack on the seat of government. That is why Biden locked down the area. No responsible president could have done otherwise. If you were president, how would you react to a highly destructive attack on a key government building by BLM, in which they beat to death one of your policemen? Would you ignore it and take no precautions?
There was a violent attack on the seat of government. That is why Biden locked down the area. No responsible president could have done otherwise. If you were president, how would you react to a highly destructive attack on a key government building by BLM, in which they beat to death one of your policemen? Would you ignore it and take no precautions?
I’m not a fucking conservative FYI. But I also don’t give a crap about political elites who are in business for themselves so I empathize with the breachers who were there due to frustration at an impotent government. I didn’t see it as a violent attack or an insurrection or coup. I thought it was pretty funny that it was so easy to breach the Capitol. Maybe govt should convene for the next few months via zoom like everyone else until it’s safe to come out.
I would beef up security w/o a military encampment. I think there’s a way to do that without troops lounging around infecting each other with Covid and sleeping in parking garages and preventing citizens from gathering to show dissent. Talk to me a year from now when they’re still there.
Now we are getting somewhere! And there are weird parallels between The Bonus Army and the original fascist movement in Italy which was mostly made up of soldiers returning from WWI hell bent on not allowing the ruling class to ever get them into a hellish war like that again...and then proceeded to pull an Oedipus and fulfill what they were trying to avoid. Kind of like Google did, too...
Read: The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert O Paxton for a detailed history.
Word of advice - Fun Police = Cypher - 'A cypher is a message written in a secret code. ... Another kind of cypher is an unimportant person who's blank or devoid of personality — you might call a lifeless character in a book a cypher. The word has an Arabic root, sifr, "zero, empty, or nothing."
Mr Zero is back - in a new 'Bird-Whistle' nom de plume
Yeah Beetle Grisha. Of note about the eventual forced removal - it was led by Douglas McArthur who was Army Chief of Staff - is it even remotely possible that our current Army COS (had to look 'em up)
would consider suiting up - manning a mount on a steed - and having at 'em with a blackjack?
Now the betrayal is far more subtle, remote, and lucrative. Like Petraeus & Mattis - who build their 'brand' via the rank and file fighting and dying and then cash in with War Inc.
Another note I've read Beetle G - about how we now may be in a similar 'Phony War' - the lull of minor to non-existent ('39 & '40) fighting for England and France until the Blitz punched through the Ardennes - and the French folded and the Vichy prevailed - unlike Churchill who thwarted Halifax and the surrender monkeys.
So, yeah - parallels indeed.
Final unrelated side bar Beetle - I have arrived (thanks for the guidance) as a poster/blogger. Cypher was way not happy with my cribbing Webster's on cluing him on choice of post-nom de plum - check out the response -
Good point. I'm not a fan of MacArthur, but at least he was willing to get his hands dirty. To make my political position clear, I take the side of the Bonus Army.
I think Petraeus was always a careerist POS and people knew it. His nickname within the military was "BetrayUs." There was a long period of breathless, worshipful media coverage of him and McChrystal; they liked the cameras. This is well covered in the late Michael Hastings' book "The Operators."
I'm very disappointed in Mattis and McMaster. To be fair, I'm sure working with Trump wasn't easy. McMaster -- the guy who literally wrote the book on the mendacity of the general officer corps in Vietnam -- advocating for more of the same policies was skull-exploding for me.
I got all the F-Bombs you need and then some. I'm Slim Pickens riding an F-Bomb and yelling "YEE-HAW!"
MacArthur was also the far right (I'm from Ohio and some of my family's Red Red Right - while I did the long road 'home' being a dedicated Lefty until mid thirty - Kent State ect - and thus my earlier post) the Taft Wing - he was their guy - they tried to run him once they turned on Eisenhower - and in many respects those fissures are still simmering....
I didn't read Hastings but rather for me it was Thomas Ricks FIASCO - about '16 or so - but I must really credit Andrew Bacevich - I was totally ashamed years later for having I bought into the WEEKLY STANDARDS dismissiveness by writers I then trusted - Max Boot, Kristol, Steve Hayes -
It was so disgusting - he was unreliable they claimed at the the time because he was 'unhinged' as a Gold Star Parent.
Let that sink in. Career military, teacher, original thinker, and unquestionably a true patriot no matter if you agree or not - and he suffers the loss every military family fears - and -
That last full measure becomes the excuse given to dismiss him?
Ricks is good (I'm a big fan of "The Generals," the main thesis of which is that accountability for the general officers' corps performance somehow vanished entirely post-WWII, when if you failed you got fired), but Bacevich is better.
It's the difference between being a keen reporter with a clear eye (Ricks, Chris Hedges, even MT, although I don't think he was ever "embedded") and somebody who actually held responsibility for their troops living or dying (Bacevich).
You probably got there by yourself already, but Chalmers Johnson is really good too. I especially like "Nemesis."
Chalmers J - wow - he was more of a Rock God in leftist circles I drank pints of Molson's at the Venice Cafe in Kent - in the 80's and 90's. Saw him speak - I can't even remember if it was DC but I'm sure it wasn't a May 4 rally.
Yes Chalmers had a keen catbird seat on the California version of the MIC - and was quite vocal about it.
If that is your criterion for success, you will be missing a lot of reasoned discourse. Do you want to provoke everyone to use an F-bomb? What purpose does angering people have? It can never be helpful in advancing a discussion, as far as I can see.
Very interesting. Thanks for that link. Seems from my quick read similar in terms of concerns about the govt not working for its citizens. And two protesters shot dead, one an immigrant.
I will talk to you in a year if they are still there. I am going to repeat part of another comment I just posted below:
If you were President, and BLM attacked a key government building, and even cooperated with the attackers, what would you do? Not call in the National Guard? If not, why not? It would be one of your powers. How could you justify not using it to protect the inauguration, assuming it was the second inauguration for Trump?
I would beef up security and go on with the show. Do you remember the violence during Trump’s inauguration? Somehow he wasn’t affected by it. There is a way to create a shield without 30000 troops installed. Either we have to admit that security forces are inept and can’t determine when an attack will come (as they claimed were possible)and need brute force or see the military response as unjustified, alarming and perilous to this tattered democracy.
I very much agree. If the Capitol police had even halfway done their job, the National Guard would never have been needed. The question is, why did the Capitol Police fail? I read that their budget is enormous by comparison with the nature of the job they do. Yet they applied very inadequate resources on that day. Why?
Let me answer your question with a question: this is what happened in 2018 at the supreme court. Look at it, and ask yourself honestly and realistically what would have happened if those doors had been forced open. It's only luck or incompetence that separate these two incidents. So what should have been done back then when this occurred?
And just to clarify, as CNN themselves describe in this video:
"Protesters opposed to Brett Kavanaugh's appointment to the US Supreme Court swarmed over Washington -- massing at the Capitol, disrupting the confirmation vote in the Senate and banging on the Supreme Court building doors when Kavanaugh arrived to be sworn in."
That is an interesting comparison. To form an opinion, I would have to study that situation in comparison with 1/6/2021. Maybe someone has already written a comparison.
You might also consider looking at Jeremy Lee Quinn's footage of the day at PublicReport.org I listened to an interview he had with Bret Weinstein both of them to the left on Weinstein's YT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFJdjO0fD4E&t=8314s&ab_channel=BretWeinstein It's long but given he was there, it offers different conclusions than the MSM/Twitter checkmark crowd. I listened to the whole thing and since the Covington high school affair where high school kids were accused, doxxed, and cancelled by MSM and social media for being racist, I've learned to place all events in context by committing to finding different perspectives and looking at footage without it first being interpreted by media/checkmark dolts. RT is also good for that as it streams live of unfolding events without all of the hysteria.
No that’s not the point. If you want footage that has not been curated look beyond CNN and MSN etc. I read that CNN is now calling these people American Al Queda and that we all need to fear another attack. It’s absurd and scary bc Americans are vulnerable to groupthink and will allow more and more civil liberties be taken away in the name of security.
In America we are all afraid someone will take our civil liberties away. Both sides of the political spectrum are afraid of that. The difference is that Republicans think the Democrats will take away their civil liberties and Democrats think the Republicans will take them away.
Right now Democrats are thinking that if Trump's people had taken over the Capitol, Trump would stay in the White House and he would then take away their liberties. That is why they are expressing so much fear about the people who broke into the Capitol.
Meanwhile Republicans seem more and more afraid that the Democrats will take away their freedom. But Democrats really do not want to control people or take away their freedoms. Why would they want that? Democratic voters do not want more control by the government any more than Republicans do.
If those "insurrectionists" had gotten farther into the Capitol, do you think there's some Central Control Room with "Levers of Power"?? Or do you have something more Wizard of Ozish in mind?
"Trump would stay in the White House", lol. Where do you get this crap? Brian Stetler? Haaahahah!
And the Dems DO want more governmental control if it can be made certain that they will be in control of it.
No, your whole post is at a 10-year-olds' level of naivete.
Thank you for that link. All I can say is that there was adequate security that day and no one got in. I don't know anything else. One other point: no one in the crowd was wearing military-style gear. But the key point was that the security forces kept the crowd out. On 1/6/2021, the security forces failed.
You'd be 100% right in that conclusion if this was being generally discussed as a security failure. But it's being hysterically described as an "attempted insurrection". But then, by that standard, how was the 2018 Supreme Court protesting not also an "attempted insurrection" but with better security? People were obviously trying to stop the functioning of the federal government, and there's zero reason to believe that if those doors opened everyone would have just politely stood at the doorway :)
I'm fine with people taking either stance, as long as they're consistent and take the same stance in both cases.
If I were president or even speaker of the house, I would have listened to the requests for added security given 100k + demonstrators were expected. Nancy and Mitch should be fired just for that level of incompetence.
Really??? I thought that is what the police are for! (And your argument falls flat when you consider the death, destruction, and mayhem this summer, which included breeches of federal and state property.)
The death and destruction this summer are irrelevant to what we are discussing. The Capitol police did not handle the attack on the Capitol adequately. If you were President, and BLM attacked a key government building, and even cooperated with the attackers, what would you do? Not call in the National Guard? If not, why not? It would be one of your powers. How could you justify not using it to protect the inauguration, assuming it was the second inauguration for Trump?
The fact that the Capitol Police were unprepared (for reasons that still aren't clear) on Jan 6 has nothing to do with a prepared police force now. That is what the police are for. Fine, National Guard for the inauguration but why are they still there? If you say to guard against some possible violence during the impeachment trial, I'm not going along. We are getting dangerously close to a CCP style government. But you can't see it, so I am not going to try to convince you.
Given the No Comment coming from the House and Senate, it's obvious what happened. They were either incompetent or wanted something to happen. Not sure which one.
I don't have an answer. We have to inquire further, and find out when the National Guard is withdrawn. I believe their presence was warranted, but I have no information or ideas about when they should be withdrawn, except, of course, as soon as possible.
'The death and destruction this summer are irrelevant...'
What a pathetic excuse for a position. We are one year into this and yet to really feel the economic consequences of what you consider irrelevant - like - a MANUFACTURED DEPRESSION just in business closings and job losses alone.
And by the way for most of the 50k+ there peacefully to protest what they considered a stolen election - IT WAS TRUMPS 2ND INAUGURATION - cause they and I believe he won - possibly in a landslide.
Locking down the capital with 20k National Guard isn't a warning to the fellow Phoenician nut job wearing a buffalo head-dress and the other goof-ball now sitting in Prince George County because he messed with Goat Girl Pelosi's to-do list on her desk once he plunked down his Dr. Martins.
Tucker Carlson nailed it the other night on why - You are allowed to believe that Biden won - as I am that he is nothing more than a pathetic puppet installed illegally. He is incompetent and illegitimate and the pretext that you have bought into - if you are sincere - likewise puts your ability to make rational decisions suspect. We all are entitled to a Senior Moment Ralph. Not a delusional nightmare that you want to force on half the country.
There are 70+ million of us - and we are not going to curl into a fetal position or go away. We are going to re-install voter integrity - and stop these fascist-progs from stealing our republic.
Also I never said -- and I do not believe -- that the death and destruction this summer are unimportant. They are very important, just not relevant to a narrow discussion of the Capitol situation on 1/6/2021.
Peter Navarro' s - three volumes of compiled - as of yesterday on War Room he announced it is to be released in print - within the month.
Both in content and breath the evidence rivals the 9/11 commission report - and the American Public - denied the chance to view that evidence by way of congressional debate - due to the tragic results of the capital riot - and the MSM scandalous blackout - will ultimately decide.
just google Peter Navarro 'The Immaculate Deception' Report News ... - there are 3 total and they are available free at some sites - I'm gonna get the softcover that is to be out soon...
Navarro's is only the best comprehensive compilation in my view - any one can find information if they want to - it's widely available - but not every one is retired like us Ralph...
Of course not. Retired people like me and my wife are extremely fortunate. And in fact the situation does not seem fair to me, since not everyone is able to retire.
I don't "get to determine". I just asserted that I think it is irrelevant to that narrow discussion. Repeating something I wrote above, I never said -- and I do not believe -- that the death and destruction this summer are unimportant. They are very important, just not relevant to a specific discussion of the Capitol situation on 1/6/2021.
I would like someone to explain why the “invaders” and “insurrectionists” did not bring guns if they were seriously trying to oust the “sacred democracy.”
We do know that some came with those plastic handcuffs. And one person (group?) actually did beat a policeman to death.
One big clarification I've learned from this batch of comments is that the most important problem is that the security failed. Regardless of anyone's intentions, if the crowd had not entered at all, there would have been no significant problem. So I am going to stop calling it an insurrection, etc., because it would have been a nothing-at-all if the security had held.
To put that another way, "intentions" of a group cannot easily be measured in a one-off like this because everyone has a different set to intentions. That is why security must hold: you never know what might happen if a crowd gets in somewhere. (And obviously they were not entering a public place, such as a shopping mall, where intentions might have to be analyzed, in retrospect anyway, if there were an attack.)
Thank you for this. I appreciate your decision to stop calling it an insurrection as the MSM/DNC is portraying it. I agree with you. My wife and I watched it live from our couch, with live feeds from various sources on the web. 90% of the folks there were peaceful and respectful of the Capitol. In several places the cops let them in, either thru fealty to the aims of the protestors or by order, maybe both at different times and places. Protestors taking happy selfies with the cops, walking deferentially between the velvet roped tour lines. There were indeed bad actors, many arrived before Trump even ended his speech. But from what I have seen at least a plurality of them were antifa, and called out as such by the protestors. Very, very few from the Trump contingent meant any harm to that sacred place. Remember, at base Trumpers are solid patriots. They love America, and the shrines that represent it. If you think otherwise you are deluded.
I want to circle back to why nobody has heard of David Bailey, the DC cop who evidently shot Ashli Babbit. If that was truly an "armed insurrection" and "coup" against our Republic, the cop who fired the shot that killed the prime "domestic terrorist" should be feted and welcomed as a hero! His name and deeds and stalwart defense of the Capitol and "our sacred democracy!" should be celebrated to the heavens by DNC and MSM!! But instead we have complete silence. Zero info from any investigation, zero interest and zero questions from the compliant MSM. Nobody knows his name. The truth does not fit the Narrative. The Narrative wants you to believe 5 people died because Trump Incited a Riot, worthy of Impeachement! Yeah, well... no. The DC cop David Bailey shot the unarmed Ashli Bobbit to death in the Capitol.
David Bailey shot unarmed protestor Ashli Bobbit to death in the Capitol. Just for clarity.
Several died of natural causes like heart attack, almost a given in a giant crowd like that. (How giant was the crowd? Nobody knows. That info is Not To Be Discussed.) DC cop Brian Sicknick walked away from the riot but died a day later from a head wound suffered during the riot. RIP. All evidence paints him as a man of honor and I have every reason to believe it.
To be clear I believe David Bailey may have been in the right of doing his job best he could. I have no reason to think he was a bad actor. Maybe he was the last line of defense before some cowering Congress Critters. Evidently he was security detail during the attack on Sen Scalise some years ago, and was wounded by the (Bernie Bro) assailant. Bailey's shot to the chest of the attacker was likely the mortal wound that stopped the attack. Add all that up and I could credit the man a hero. So how he came to shoot Ashli Babbit? Darn, if there was only an investigation. If only somebody cared enough to want to know the truth. But that does not fit the Narrative. You, Joe public, are just a serf to be played.
What they do not show you is much more important than what they holler to the skies.
I do not agree that antifa was involved in most of the instances of violence. Since most of the people who perpetrated violence or destruction have been arrested, and will be prosecuted, there is an opportunity to find out if they had connections with antifa. As for an investigation, my understanding is that an exhaustive investigation has already begun, and is expected to go on for a long time. How David Bailey came to shoot Ashli Babbit will surely be an important part of that investigation. Just try not to say it's not an investigation if the Democrats run it. They happen to be the party in power in both chambers, and whatever party that is usually controls investigations. If you want democracy, you have to accept that either party may be in power at any given time.
What I'd love to have is an unbiased government bureaucracy with political appointees at the top. Then your vision of a party POV influence would make sense. But that's not what we have. What we have is an FIB that broke the law to lie to a FISA court to spy on Trump. Small fish Clinesmith has a federal conviction for that, but he could not act without upper level approval, just recently documented. And a 2 year Mueller investigation to whitewash Crossfire Hurricane and allow years (YEARS) of disinfo to be pushed by the MSM. A deep state psyop to harm the legitimately elected sitting President.
If these are the folks in charge of investigating the Capitol riots I have zero reason to believe their conclusions. After all their lies, why should I?
But I'll wait to see what happens. Maybe the results will be believable this time. I do not think we have a monolithic Deep State opponent. I think they are tightly bound by common interests but tribes of them have chiefs that control their turf best they can. The truth might still spill out.
There was a violent attack on the seat of government. That is why Biden locked down the area. No responsible president could have done otherwise. If you were president, how would you react to a highly destructive attack on a key government building by BLM, in which they beat to death one of your policemen? Would you ignore it and take no precautions?
I’m not a fucking conservative FYI. But I also don’t give a crap about political elites who are in business for themselves so I empathize with the breachers who were there due to frustration at an impotent government. I didn’t see it as a violent attack or an insurrection or coup. I thought it was pretty funny that it was so easy to breach the Capitol. Maybe govt should convene for the next few months via zoom like everyone else until it’s safe to come out.
I would beef up security w/o a military encampment. I think there’s a way to do that without troops lounging around infecting each other with Covid and sleeping in parking garages and preventing citizens from gathering to show dissent. Talk to me a year from now when they’re still there.
There are weird parallels between what's been going on in the past few weeks and the Bonus Army of 1932: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
Grisha:
Now we are getting somewhere! And there are weird parallels between The Bonus Army and the original fascist movement in Italy which was mostly made up of soldiers returning from WWI hell bent on not allowing the ruling class to ever get them into a hellish war like that again...and then proceeded to pull an Oedipus and fulfill what they were trying to avoid. Kind of like Google did, too...
Read: The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert O Paxton for a detailed history.
Word of advice - Fun Police = Cypher - 'A cypher is a message written in a secret code. ... Another kind of cypher is an unimportant person who's blank or devoid of personality — you might call a lifeless character in a book a cypher. The word has an Arabic root, sifr, "zero, empty, or nothing."
Mr Zero is back - in a new 'Bird-Whistle' nom de plume
Yeah Beetle Grisha. Of note about the eventual forced removal - it was led by Douglas McArthur who was Army Chief of Staff - is it even remotely possible that our current Army COS (had to look 'em up)
would consider suiting up - manning a mount on a steed - and having at 'em with a blackjack?
Now the betrayal is far more subtle, remote, and lucrative. Like Petraeus & Mattis - who build their 'brand' via the rank and file fighting and dying and then cash in with War Inc.
Another note I've read Beetle G - about how we now may be in a similar 'Phony War' - the lull of minor to non-existent ('39 & '40) fighting for England and France until the Blitz punched through the Ardennes - and the French folded and the Vichy prevailed - unlike Churchill who thwarted Halifax and the surrender monkeys.
So, yeah - parallels indeed.
Final unrelated side bar Beetle - I have arrived (thanks for the guidance) as a poster/blogger. Cypher was way not happy with my cribbing Webster's on cluing him on choice of post-nom de plum - check out the response -
Got my first F-Bomb. I have arrived. Hooray!
Good point. I'm not a fan of MacArthur, but at least he was willing to get his hands dirty. To make my political position clear, I take the side of the Bonus Army.
I think Petraeus was always a careerist POS and people knew it. His nickname within the military was "BetrayUs." There was a long period of breathless, worshipful media coverage of him and McChrystal; they liked the cameras. This is well covered in the late Michael Hastings' book "The Operators."
I'm very disappointed in Mattis and McMaster. To be fair, I'm sure working with Trump wasn't easy. McMaster -- the guy who literally wrote the book on the mendacity of the general officer corps in Vietnam -- advocating for more of the same policies was skull-exploding for me.
I got all the F-Bombs you need and then some. I'm Slim Pickens riding an F-Bomb and yelling "YEE-HAW!"
MacArthur was also the far right (I'm from Ohio and some of my family's Red Red Right - while I did the long road 'home' being a dedicated Lefty until mid thirty - Kent State ect - and thus my earlier post) the Taft Wing - he was their guy - they tried to run him once they turned on Eisenhower - and in many respects those fissures are still simmering....
I didn't read Hastings but rather for me it was Thomas Ricks FIASCO - about '16 or so - but I must really credit Andrew Bacevich - I was totally ashamed years later for having I bought into the WEEKLY STANDARDS dismissiveness by writers I then trusted - Max Boot, Kristol, Steve Hayes -
It was so disgusting - he was unreliable they claimed at the the time because he was 'unhinged' as a Gold Star Parent.
Let that sink in. Career military, teacher, original thinker, and unquestionably a true patriot no matter if you agree or not - and he suffers the loss every military family fears - and -
That last full measure becomes the excuse given to dismiss him?
That is War Inc. with it ass in the wind.
"WEEKLY STANDARDS dismissiveness by writers I then trusted - Max Boot, Kristol"
Wild how hardcore neocon fedoras, e.g. Boot, Kristol, Frum are now running interference for the DNC. The flag shows which way the winds are shifting.
Ricks is good (I'm a big fan of "The Generals," the main thesis of which is that accountability for the general officers' corps performance somehow vanished entirely post-WWII, when if you failed you got fired), but Bacevich is better.
It's the difference between being a keen reporter with a clear eye (Ricks, Chris Hedges, even MT, although I don't think he was ever "embedded") and somebody who actually held responsibility for their troops living or dying (Bacevich).
You probably got there by yourself already, but Chalmers Johnson is really good too. I especially like "Nemesis."
Chalmers J - wow - he was more of a Rock God in leftist circles I drank pints of Molson's at the Venice Cafe in Kent - in the 80's and 90's. Saw him speak - I can't even remember if it was DC but I'm sure it wasn't a May 4 rally.
Yes Chalmers had a keen catbird seat on the California version of the MIC - and was quite vocal about it.
Big Wow G. Beetle.
oops - 'more of a rock god than even Normie Chams...'
I need a break. Gonna walk the dog. Laters.
If that is your criterion for success, you will be missing a lot of reasoned discourse. Do you want to provoke everyone to use an F-bomb? What purpose does angering people have? It can never be helpful in advancing a discussion, as far as I can see.
Very interesting. Thanks for that link. Seems from my quick read similar in terms of concerns about the govt not working for its citizens. And two protesters shot dead, one an immigrant.
The bonus army camped and stayed; these deranged, uncouth ruffians and lunatics came, rioted, invaded, and then left to avoid arrest.
I will talk to you in a year if they are still there. I am going to repeat part of another comment I just posted below:
If you were President, and BLM attacked a key government building, and even cooperated with the attackers, what would you do? Not call in the National Guard? If not, why not? It would be one of your powers. How could you justify not using it to protect the inauguration, assuming it was the second inauguration for Trump?
I would beef up security and go on with the show. Do you remember the violence during Trump’s inauguration? Somehow he wasn’t affected by it. There is a way to create a shield without 30000 troops installed. Either we have to admit that security forces are inept and can’t determine when an attack will come (as they claimed were possible)and need brute force or see the military response as unjustified, alarming and perilous to this tattered democracy.
I very much agree. If the Capitol police had even halfway done their job, the National Guard would never have been needed. The question is, why did the Capitol Police fail? I read that their budget is enormous by comparison with the nature of the job they do. Yet they applied very inadequate resources on that day. Why?
This is the best answer I've found so far for why the failure happened:
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuffs-claims-national-guard-was-never-called-during-ri
TY. I’d heard Bowser was involved in poor decision making also but for some reason that story has been muted.
Thank you. Yes, I've seen that. But why were they turned down 6 times? I don't remember seeing a real answer to that.
Let me answer your question with a question: this is what happened in 2018 at the supreme court. Look at it, and ask yourself honestly and realistically what would have happened if those doors had been forced open. It's only luck or incompetence that separate these two incidents. So what should have been done back then when this occurred?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnmnxVtDqg
And just to clarify, as CNN themselves describe in this video:
"Protesters opposed to Brett Kavanaugh's appointment to the US Supreme Court swarmed over Washington -- massing at the Capitol, disrupting the confirmation vote in the Senate and banging on the Supreme Court building doors when Kavanaugh arrived to be sworn in."
That is an interesting comparison. To form an opinion, I would have to study that situation in comparison with 1/6/2021. Maybe someone has already written a comparison.
You might also consider looking at Jeremy Lee Quinn's footage of the day at PublicReport.org I listened to an interview he had with Bret Weinstein both of them to the left on Weinstein's YT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFJdjO0fD4E&t=8314s&ab_channel=BretWeinstein It's long but given he was there, it offers different conclusions than the MSM/Twitter checkmark crowd. I listened to the whole thing and since the Covington high school affair where high school kids were accused, doxxed, and cancelled by MSM and social media for being racist, I've learned to place all events in context by committing to finding different perspectives and looking at footage without it first being interpreted by media/checkmark dolts. RT is also good for that as it streams live of unfolding events without all of the hysteria.
Would you have a few minutes to summarize those video reports as you see them? I have a lot of other video I need to watch first.
No that’s not the point. If you want footage that has not been curated look beyond CNN and MSN etc. I read that CNN is now calling these people American Al Queda and that we all need to fear another attack. It’s absurd and scary bc Americans are vulnerable to groupthink and will allow more and more civil liberties be taken away in the name of security.
In America we are all afraid someone will take our civil liberties away. Both sides of the political spectrum are afraid of that. The difference is that Republicans think the Democrats will take away their civil liberties and Democrats think the Republicans will take them away.
Right now Democrats are thinking that if Trump's people had taken over the Capitol, Trump would stay in the White House and he would then take away their liberties. That is why they are expressing so much fear about the people who broke into the Capitol.
Meanwhile Republicans seem more and more afraid that the Democrats will take away their freedom. But Democrats really do not want to control people or take away their freedoms. Why would they want that? Democratic voters do not want more control by the government any more than Republicans do.
That is an especially dim-witted take.
If those "insurrectionists" had gotten farther into the Capitol, do you think there's some Central Control Room with "Levers of Power"?? Or do you have something more Wizard of Ozish in mind?
"Trump would stay in the White House", lol. Where do you get this crap? Brian Stetler? Haaahahah!
And the Dems DO want more governmental control if it can be made certain that they will be in control of it.
No, your whole post is at a 10-year-olds' level of naivete.
Thank you for that link. All I can say is that there was adequate security that day and no one got in. I don't know anything else. One other point: no one in the crowd was wearing military-style gear. But the key point was that the security forces kept the crowd out. On 1/6/2021, the security forces failed.
You'd be 100% right in that conclusion if this was being generally discussed as a security failure. But it's being hysterically described as an "attempted insurrection". But then, by that standard, how was the 2018 Supreme Court protesting not also an "attempted insurrection" but with better security? People were obviously trying to stop the functioning of the federal government, and there's zero reason to believe that if those doors opened everyone would have just politely stood at the doorway :)
I'm fine with people taking either stance, as long as they're consistent and take the same stance in both cases.
That is a very good, very interesting point. Thank you!
If I were president or even speaker of the house, I would have listened to the requests for added security given 100k + demonstrators were expected. Nancy and Mitch should be fired just for that level of incompetence.
Nancy and Mitch ain't getting fired until they die. That's the Permanent Government right there.
Were they warned in advance, do you know?
An internet search "were capitol police warned in advance" turns up many articles that says they were.
Sorry, I meant to ask if Nancy and Mitch were warned in advance. All this is so horribly complicated!
Really??? I thought that is what the police are for! (And your argument falls flat when you consider the death, destruction, and mayhem this summer, which included breeches of federal and state property.)
The death and destruction this summer are irrelevant to what we are discussing. The Capitol police did not handle the attack on the Capitol adequately. If you were President, and BLM attacked a key government building, and even cooperated with the attackers, what would you do? Not call in the National Guard? If not, why not? It would be one of your powers. How could you justify not using it to protect the inauguration, assuming it was the second inauguration for Trump?
The fact that the Capitol Police were unprepared (for reasons that still aren't clear) on Jan 6 has nothing to do with a prepared police force now. That is what the police are for. Fine, National Guard for the inauguration but why are they still there? If you say to guard against some possible violence during the impeachment trial, I'm not going along. We are getting dangerously close to a CCP style government. But you can't see it, so I am not going to try to convince you.
Given the No Comment coming from the House and Senate, it's obvious what happened. They were either incompetent or wanted something to happen. Not sure which one.
I think that is important but it is not at all obvious what happened. We need to find out.
I don't have an answer. We have to inquire further, and find out when the National Guard is withdrawn. I believe their presence was warranted, but I have no information or ideas about when they should be withdrawn, except, of course, as soon as possible.
This is hysterical nonsense
'The death and destruction this summer are irrelevant...'
What a pathetic excuse for a position. We are one year into this and yet to really feel the economic consequences of what you consider irrelevant - like - a MANUFACTURED DEPRESSION just in business closings and job losses alone.
And by the way for most of the 50k+ there peacefully to protest what they considered a stolen election - IT WAS TRUMPS 2ND INAUGURATION - cause they and I believe he won - possibly in a landslide.
Locking down the capital with 20k National Guard isn't a warning to the fellow Phoenician nut job wearing a buffalo head-dress and the other goof-ball now sitting in Prince George County because he messed with Goat Girl Pelosi's to-do list on her desk once he plunked down his Dr. Martins.
Tucker Carlson nailed it the other night on why - You are allowed to believe that Biden won - as I am that he is nothing more than a pathetic puppet installed illegally. He is incompetent and illegitimate and the pretext that you have bought into - if you are sincere - likewise puts your ability to make rational decisions suspect. We all are entitled to a Senior Moment Ralph. Not a delusional nightmare that you want to force on half the country.
There are 70+ million of us - and we are not going to curl into a fetal position or go away. We are going to re-install voter integrity - and stop these fascist-progs from stealing our republic.
They're all puppets and have been for some time now.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/04/17/here-are-the-billionaires-backing-donald-trumps-campaign/?sh=294164c47989
Also I never said -- and I do not believe -- that the death and destruction this summer are unimportant. They are very important, just not relevant to a narrow discussion of the Capitol situation on 1/6/2021.
What is your evidence that the election was stolen?
Peter Navarro' s - three volumes of compiled - as of yesterday on War Room he announced it is to be released in print - within the month.
Both in content and breath the evidence rivals the 9/11 commission report - and the American Public - denied the chance to view that evidence by way of congressional debate - due to the tragic results of the capital riot - and the MSM scandalous blackout - will ultimately decide.
How do I get this three-volume work? What is it called? I am not familiar with Navarro or War Room.
just google Peter Navarro 'The Immaculate Deception' Report News ... - there are 3 total and they are available free at some sites - I'm gonna get the softcover that is to be out soon...
Thanks so much.
Gladly. Is this good to disagree in a civilized manner!
Navarro's is only the best comprehensive compilation in my view - any one can find information if they want to - it's widely available - but not every one is retired like us Ralph...
Of course not. Retired people like me and my wife are extremely fortunate. And in fact the situation does not seem fair to me, since not everyone is able to retire.
No, it is not hysterical nonsense. That is a distracting, provocative comment meant to disrupt.
You beat the snot out of your own strawmen, like I said previously, hysterical nonsense
Ralph Dratman13 hr ago
The death and destruction this summer are irrelevant to what we are discussing.
Since when do you get to determine what's relevant to the conversation ?
Both riots were aimed at government just at different levels. Are you saying local government is irrelevant ?
Are you implying that you actually believe these idiots were going to overthrow the US government ?
That's just hilarious on it's face !
Welcome to your own foreign policy being practiced domestically....
So funny how Americans will buy anything DC sells as long as twitter, face book, and the cable monopolies back it up.
It's a convenient way to shut down any discussion of a double standard.
Discussion of a double standard (I assume you mean in journalism) is extremely important and should certainly occur, at length, on an ongoing basis.
Irrelevance is a valid reason to pass over a propose argument.
I don't "get to determine". I just asserted that I think it is irrelevant to that narrow discussion. Repeating something I wrote above, I never said -- and I do not believe -- that the death and destruction this summer are unimportant. They are very important, just not relevant to a specific discussion of the Capitol situation on 1/6/2021.
Who did David Bailey shoot to death? Anybody want to say her name?
Bailey is alleged to be the policeman that shot and killed Ashli Babbitt.
Could you please explain your question? I don't understand.
I would like someone to explain why the “invaders” and “insurrectionists” did not bring guns if they were seriously trying to oust the “sacred democracy.”
That's a very good question.
We do know that some came with those plastic handcuffs. And one person (group?) actually did beat a policeman to death.
One big clarification I've learned from this batch of comments is that the most important problem is that the security failed. Regardless of anyone's intentions, if the crowd had not entered at all, there would have been no significant problem. So I am going to stop calling it an insurrection, etc., because it would have been a nothing-at-all if the security had held.
To put that another way, "intentions" of a group cannot easily be measured in a one-off like this because everyone has a different set to intentions. That is why security must hold: you never know what might happen if a crowd gets in somewhere. (And obviously they were not entering a public place, such as a shopping mall, where intentions might have to be analyzed, in retrospect anyway, if there were an attack.)
Thank you for this. I appreciate your decision to stop calling it an insurrection as the MSM/DNC is portraying it. I agree with you. My wife and I watched it live from our couch, with live feeds from various sources on the web. 90% of the folks there were peaceful and respectful of the Capitol. In several places the cops let them in, either thru fealty to the aims of the protestors or by order, maybe both at different times and places. Protestors taking happy selfies with the cops, walking deferentially between the velvet roped tour lines. There were indeed bad actors, many arrived before Trump even ended his speech. But from what I have seen at least a plurality of them were antifa, and called out as such by the protestors. Very, very few from the Trump contingent meant any harm to that sacred place. Remember, at base Trumpers are solid patriots. They love America, and the shrines that represent it. If you think otherwise you are deluded.
I want to circle back to why nobody has heard of David Bailey, the DC cop who evidently shot Ashli Babbit. If that was truly an "armed insurrection" and "coup" against our Republic, the cop who fired the shot that killed the prime "domestic terrorist" should be feted and welcomed as a hero! His name and deeds and stalwart defense of the Capitol and "our sacred democracy!" should be celebrated to the heavens by DNC and MSM!! But instead we have complete silence. Zero info from any investigation, zero interest and zero questions from the compliant MSM. Nobody knows his name. The truth does not fit the Narrative. The Narrative wants you to believe 5 people died because Trump Incited a Riot, worthy of Impeachement! Yeah, well... no. The DC cop David Bailey shot the unarmed Ashli Bobbit to death in the Capitol.
David Bailey shot unarmed protestor Ashli Bobbit to death in the Capitol. Just for clarity.
Several died of natural causes like heart attack, almost a given in a giant crowd like that. (How giant was the crowd? Nobody knows. That info is Not To Be Discussed.) DC cop Brian Sicknick walked away from the riot but died a day later from a head wound suffered during the riot. RIP. All evidence paints him as a man of honor and I have every reason to believe it.
To be clear I believe David Bailey may have been in the right of doing his job best he could. I have no reason to think he was a bad actor. Maybe he was the last line of defense before some cowering Congress Critters. Evidently he was security detail during the attack on Sen Scalise some years ago, and was wounded by the (Bernie Bro) assailant. Bailey's shot to the chest of the attacker was likely the mortal wound that stopped the attack. Add all that up and I could credit the man a hero. So how he came to shoot Ashli Babbit? Darn, if there was only an investigation. If only somebody cared enough to want to know the truth. But that does not fit the Narrative. You, Joe public, are just a serf to be played.
What they do not show you is much more important than what they holler to the skies.
I do not agree that antifa was involved in most of the instances of violence. Since most of the people who perpetrated violence or destruction have been arrested, and will be prosecuted, there is an opportunity to find out if they had connections with antifa. As for an investigation, my understanding is that an exhaustive investigation has already begun, and is expected to go on for a long time. How David Bailey came to shoot Ashli Babbit will surely be an important part of that investigation. Just try not to say it's not an investigation if the Democrats run it. They happen to be the party in power in both chambers, and whatever party that is usually controls investigations. If you want democracy, you have to accept that either party may be in power at any given time.
What I'd love to have is an unbiased government bureaucracy with political appointees at the top. Then your vision of a party POV influence would make sense. But that's not what we have. What we have is an FIB that broke the law to lie to a FISA court to spy on Trump. Small fish Clinesmith has a federal conviction for that, but he could not act without upper level approval, just recently documented. And a 2 year Mueller investigation to whitewash Crossfire Hurricane and allow years (YEARS) of disinfo to be pushed by the MSM. A deep state psyop to harm the legitimately elected sitting President.
If these are the folks in charge of investigating the Capitol riots I have zero reason to believe their conclusions. After all their lies, why should I?
But I'll wait to see what happens. Maybe the results will be believable this time. I do not think we have a monolithic Deep State opponent. I think they are tightly bound by common interests but tribes of them have chiefs that control their turf best they can. The truth might still spill out.
They had just watched Monty Python's bit. Come at me with a loaded banana. MPFC makes a lot more sense than our polity.