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ERIN REESE's avatar

Another piece of evidence pointing to the necessity of creating non-tech-company driven networks and communities, detaching from dependence on companies like Google, Meta, YouTube, et al. Even Rumble and Substack are vulnerable when examining their own dependence. It's clear this is going to amplify. Trusting and using our human creativity and ingenuity to come up with alternatives to tech-dependent monetization is the imminent challenge. And opportunity. The sooner the better.

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MBHayes's avatar

Long time user and donor to NakedCapitalism. I wish they would come to Substack. It's a tremendous site. The comments section is the best on the internet. Great readers with vast knowledge and experiences.

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Ken Kunda's avatar

I looked at this website after reading Matt's article and I think it is one of the biggest echo chambers I have ever seen. Everyone seems to be anti-growth and worse. I thought by its title it might be worthwhile however I was wrong.

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Tom Sparks's avatar

I couldn’t care less what her opinions are. No one should be able to intimidate, censor or demonetize her.

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Charles weaver's avatar

Well, when one has no ability to write a reasoned rebuttal, I guess “spoiled child” tactics are easier to use.

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Ken Kunda's avatar

If you read my comment you will note that I didn't say anything about her situation. I actually agree with your opinion in regard to her.

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Last One's avatar

I’m not sure what type of growth you are referring to, but we all are living in the Holocene extinction.

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Pat Robinson's avatar

Assuming that is a joke

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MBHayes's avatar

There are people with opinions, on both sides. You will find pushback and good discussion and links to information. A single day won't give you a good feel for the depth of conversation. Science gets discussed there in the context of published papers and public data. The info on the financial system is the same. Yves book "Econned" is a must read. They moderate comments so well, you do not find name calling fighting and such BS going on.

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ChiGal's avatar

second all of that. it is a daily must read for me.

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Jose Weto's avatar

Remember gentle reader, the 1st amendment is not for speech you love, it's for speech you hate. I could personally do with a bit of anti-growth in the kleptocracy we call the USA.

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Gogs's avatar

So you're an American.

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HiggsBosonSlut's avatar

Surprising (well, I guess not so) that NakedCapitalism was getting censored, because when I was reading it, it was pretty tame, dry stuff. And comments were censored as well. Zerohedge is way more off the hook.

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Paul Harper's avatar

Within her area of expertise, Yves is a useful voice. Zerohedge is more of a rode clown - fun, but a little too wild.

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Jose Weto's avatar

I started reading Zerohedge when I saw Matt describe it as something like "The always excellent Zerohedge". The more doctrinaire libertarians get as tiresome as woke ideologues, but there is some quite informative writers featured there, including occasionally our gracious host.

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Paul Harper's avatar

So I checked NC for their 2016 election coverage, especially in October and November, which is my metric for any and all claims about expertise.

Yves et al missed all the clear indicators that Trump would win. I'm not about to dive into the weeds to search for 'maybe' and 'coulds'. Turns out Yves and her crew are so selective about evidence as to be indifferent to fact. Little wonder Matt looks smart to Yves.

Politics, economics, and government are not my areas of expertise. Lots of very 'smart' people aren't. We're all blind to what we can't see and if we don't start looking hard, we're going to miss the facts. Most did in 2016 isn't an excuse or a viable defense.

I watched one Trump speech in late August 2015 and was stunned by the viability of his message. Never heard anything like it from a candidate.I knew zip about the rodeo cowboy, then, beyond blondes, casinos, avarice, and narcissism. He talked about jobs lost, getting screwed by both parties, protecting social security, avoiding foreign wars, bounty, and individual freedom. Huge, bigly skillful messaging and marketing. He listened to the outrage (unlike most) and fed it right back to the audience amped to the max. Most important: He wasn't 'them'. He wasn't 'them'. He wasn't 'them'.

Two weeks later, I stated that Trump would win the presidency at the one left-leaning site still willing to permit my heresies. Took no end of abuse throughout 2015 and 2016 as victory became clearer and clearer (to me). Twas fun! Banned late in 2017 for repeatedly pointing out that the expert left a/ had completely failed to understand the electorate (Yves included) b/ had completely signed up as security state stenographers (Yves not included.)

My visit to NC did nothing to impress me. Her links are useful, but I can find plenty of those myself. Designing mixed-method research instruments is situation and task specific. Not clear that Yves and her crew have any idea of how to identify and interpret task-specific metrics. Hint: if one walks past an empty diner, odds are the owner's going broke. But we have to check to be sure. As for the comments - yawn. Sorry!

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Pacificus's avatar

"I watched one Trump speech in late August 2015 and was stunned by the viability of his message." Yeah, Paul, same for me. For decades, I had nothing but contempt for Trump but when he began to break all the unwritten rules and say all the things politicians were not allowed to say, I knew he had a chance to win.

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UserFriendlyyy's avatar

She was not anti-Trump. Really, she was behind Sanders but hated Clinton. This is the piece that introduced me to the site. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/06/our-politico-story-on-why-clinton-does-not-deserve-the-sanders-vote.html

And the site was rather ambivalent about November 2016. In case you weren't sure, indented text is a quote, generally followed by snarky disagreement. Like in this post from election day before polls closed, which was actually bullish on Trump. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/200pm-election-day-water-cooler-1182016.html

And she had no qualms about praising Trump when he did things that she thought were beneficial. But seriously, her real claim to fame was shredding Obama for the god awful sellout he was and the never ending kid glove treatment he got from the press.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/03/the-empire-continues-to-strike-back-team-obama-propaganda-campaign-reaches-fever-pitch.html

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norstadt's avatar

Naked Capitalism were very pro-COVID-panic and pro-Pfizer/Moderna.

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the suck of sorrow's avatar

Here is a data point for you: Yves Smith got jabbed with J&J's vaccine.

She and Lambert Strether were very critical of the liability exclusions provided to Moderna and Pfizer. In fact, they and the research experts that contribute to the site had many criticisms for the roll-out of the vaccines.

To quote Ms. Smith, "you are making shit up!"

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Paul Harper's avatar

That's Yves in a nutshell: "I have an opinion, your job is to agree."

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ChiGal's avatar

it’s more like don’t disagree without providing supporting evidence. and logical fallacies are out…

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Paul Harper's avatar

You remember, thanks!

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the suck of sorrow's avatar

You are the self professed data guru, here is a graph:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=17ENT

What you call obsession, I call a sensible caution about an extremely dangerous virus. How can you discount a barrage of studies showing long term adverse effects? What is inaccurate or plainly wrong in either of the two articles you linked?

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norstadt's avatar

The virus is 100 times less lethal now than at the start of it all. And that early lethality was probably more a product of panic than anything intrinsic to the disease. https://github.com/s1rh3nry/covid_calc

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Chris Coffman's avatar

Does the graph depict the consequences of COVID or is it depicting the vaccine-injured? I wasn’t able to establish the underlying cause of the disabilities from the info in the graph

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UserFriendlyyy's avatar

They flagged COVID in China in early Jan and warned it would go worldwide; We didn't start shutting down till mid March. They have been a bit to covid maximalist for my taste, but they are almost twice my age, so they have a different risk profile. They were very anti vax mandate and have done nothing but shred the CDC at just about every turn.

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Dan Mage's avatar

I got jabbed 4 times and finally stopped before the 5th. The Cancer, the aggravation of joint pain, and P.O.T.S. (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome), a know and document adverse vaccine reaction. I did it because I was doing healthcare work. I was not convinced that the COVID vaccine was dangerous or harmful until I experienced the effects, and even now I don't know for sure, correlation does not equal causality and all that...

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feldspar's avatar

Roughly translated for the non-Racket News commenter: "pro-public health."

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UserFriendlyyy's avatar

No, they constantly trashed Fauci for the lie and turnaround on masks, have been very skeptical of using untested mRNA vaccines, and are very opposed to mandates. They do overplay the risks of getting COVID and long covid a bit, but they are pushing 70 IIRC. so they are in a higher risk bracket.

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norstadt's avatar

Like our leaders, they only think of the 70 plus age bracket. Meanwhile kids had to stay home from school and wear masks for years on end.

Good job being against vaccine mandates. That's one good call versus a bunch of bad ones.

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Paul Harper's avatar

Yves Smith banned me for refusing to retract my charge that Matt Yglesias is a dunce. (circa 2010). At NC, it's her way or the highway.

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Jose Weto's avatar

So Yves doesn't like truth either?!

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Paul Harper's avatar

Invaluable data point from 2016 Enjoy, runs about 5 minutes, if you can't take that much: https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/39548?in=00:35

Young reporters who figure going on the campaign trail with the candidates to meet voters is a waste of their valuable time. That's the state of modern journalism. To be fair to Yves, she's light years ahead of these two. Both, of course, were promoted up for getting 2016 wrong. Surprise!

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UserFriendlyyy's avatar

Considering she was calling Ezra Klein "Baghdad Bob" for his relentless shilling of Obama's worst ideas, there has to be more to that story. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/memo-to-ezra-klein-doing-something-stupid-isnt-smart.html

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Paul Harper's avatar

From what I can recall, there was another comment or two where I disagreed with her. Water long under the bridge. I wish her and hers well.

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Ibbiat's avatar

Once a Substack comment thread gets to more than ~50 comments or so, there are some usability flaws that are kind of horrible. I really wish they would make improvements.

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Bakelite72's avatar

Excellent -- this is THE important point. Whatever we have to do to reject, unplug and insulate ourselves from The Machine, it will be necessary in order to stay committed to keeping truth and freedom of thought alive in this increasingly micro-managed "reality" being forced on us.

Perhaps we should all stock up on mimeograph machines and paper, for we may find ourselves driven underground to such a degree that we must revive the Samizdat tradition *(look it up, if you missed Matt's explanation of the name-origin of his recent journalism award) of folks surviving Stalinist Russia, here in post-sanity America.

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ERIN REESE's avatar

County Highway is a good start. I encourage subscribing if folks haven't yet.

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Kevin Schilling's avatar

Thank you for the recommendation,,,,,,just subscribed this morning

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DMang's avatar

Agree! I highly recommend it. Excellent writing with an aversion to the cultural garbage and panic journalism that drives most of us away from media. Worth every penny and every moment spent reading it. And as a bonus it is a print only publication immune to the whims of the censorship overlords infesting the internet.

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Jose Weto's avatar

Thank you Erin. After noting that Matt's partner in truth, Walter Kirn is the Editor At Large, I subscribed.

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Chris Coffman's avatar

Thank you!

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Martine Zee's avatar

Not sure America was EVER sane. I do wish I hadn't sold all my books after got tired of hauling all the boxes every time I move (which is often, constantly chasing lower rents). The internet is going to be useless pabulum in short order.

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Chris Coffman's avatar

I considered selling my books years ago and decided against it—so glad now!

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ERIN REESE's avatar

Good for you! I sold a lot when I fell for the Marie Kondo fad (Kondonista) - ugh! But am replenishing them and now they're burgeoning in the library. I rescue books all the time from FREE stacks and libraries. We've gotta keep them alive!

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Pacificus's avatar

Bakelite, samizdat time is already here in America, and has been for a few years now.

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Bakelite72's avatar

Yeah, you are probably right -- I was trying to put on my optimistic face ;^)

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Jose Weto's avatar

This article is yet more proof of it.

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ERIN REESE's avatar

I am also thinking to get some good old carbon copy paper, which is still for sale out there!

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Mike R.'s avatar

You bet!! The recent TFP report on Marshall McLuhan reinforced my belief that "we the people" indeed need to rethink our entire relationship to technology. It is intrusive, hypnotic, addictive, and distorts time and reality. And, having been captured and weaponized by the joined at the hip mal actors in the financial and surveillance communities is used to enforce a criminal hyperreality that shouts down human moral reason. At present tech/AI is the shiny object in the jungle path luring the free peoples of the world toward totalitarian enslavement.

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Pacificus's avatar

Good points, Mike. Yeah, we all need to take a cue from the Amish, who scrutinize new technologies very very closely before they adopt them, understanding as they do that technology can undermine family and culture, often in insidious ways.

My favorite is their relationship to the telephone. They have them, but they are not kept in the house. That way, the phone is available for emergencies but cannot interrupt or otherwise takeover their lives. Smart.

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craazyman's avatar

It seems if one looks at history this problem -- distributed versus centralized consciousness (and therefore implied power relations, judgments, censorships and worse) -- is omnipresent. The technology changes but the basic fabric, the tensions inherent in organizing millions of people, is timeless.

Today's technology is new, but that's all that's new.

Paul was arrested for preaching. Jesus was crucified. Roman emporers had secret police. The Church, which inherited Roman governance structure, had it's inquisition. European royal courts had their henchmen. Everyone. I suspect ancient Egypt had police who informed for pharoah and whichever priests were in charge. Ahkenaton's situation.

Pre-history, Joseph Campbell traces the complex organizing myths that regulated societies -- those had their rebels too. His PRIMITIVE MYTHOLOGY chronicles an especially fascinating situation in Upper Nile Egypt in the 400s or so BC, where a ruling king would not submit to his own expected ritual suicide and instead had his soldiers slay the priests in the temple to a man. The king was evidently inspired by Greek philosophy, which was then percolating in the region.

Well. The power of language? Hello.

This is going to be a long and difficult process and it only will result in permanent change with an evolution in the culture's values-based operating system. The Enlightenment was recent, only a few hundred years old. We're still in it. It's still happening. It won't be over for a few hundred more years, or longer if we backslide.

Ecce Homo.

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H8SBAD's avatar

Erin nails it, IMHO.

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Sleazy E's avatar

The internet was a mistake.

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David Cashion's avatar

Like papyrus?

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Sleazy E's avatar

Nah, books are awesome.

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David Cashion's avatar

I am going to coin a phrase.

Are you ready ?

Phone worms.

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Ah, you read Neil Postman's Technopoly?

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craazyman's avatar

No.

The problem was the pen, not the paper. :-)

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Billy Masterson's avatar

Problem is the nut on the end of the pen.

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David Cashion's avatar

Funny

But to be serious it is the hand.

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TWC's avatar

Technology is never a mistake. The mistake is misunderstanding it.

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TWC's avatar

I'll add that, regarding the internet, we know/have known quite a bit re: it's overall effects in terms of the 'information superhighway' aspects (psychological impacts, hijacking attention, et al)...we just pick and choose what gets exploited, amplified, advanced, etc. And by we, I mean those in SV that run the thing.

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Stxbuck's avatar

I bought into the 90s “information superhighway” vision of the web, and still mourn it’s fading into obsolescence. Now it’s turned into Arkham Asylum…..

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Tom Sparks's avatar

And when big tech yanks Substack’s ability to publish?

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SueB's avatar

Without one doubt, this is what is needed.

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Erin Marie Miller's avatar

This!! 🙌🏼

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Sheila Dean's avatar

"Trust & Safety" strikes again. It may improve the public discussion to observe the 1st party rules for laundering government propaganda or their desired outcomes that actually apply to State sponsored media plied abroad. The problems here are that US social media, carrying a partial global ownership, has blurred the lines for a lot of these public agencies. They don't seem to be observing internal compliance rules that apply to their agencies. Let's say they did, for sake of argument and we put this 1st part contracting back onto social media. They could contract an algorithmic developer to create internal location generation markers applicable to US-based consumers, based on content and location traffic rules to deduce who is domestic vs. foreign. Those things can be flagged internally without interfering with US public participation.

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Yuri Bezmenov's avatar

Google Gemini lacks self awareness, just like the people who created it. It should be renamed NPC.AI. Let's flag Google's crony monopolistic capitalism for the same issues it is attacking Naked Capitalism with:

VIOLENT_EXTREMISM

HATEFUL_CONTENT

HARMFUL_HEALTH_CLAIMS

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Phisto Sobanii's avatar

I just came here to say that.

Artificial "intelligence" looks about as smart as the average wokie Karen bureaucrat. Working as intended, I'm sure.

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

It is has always been the hubris of "smart people" to believe that AI would be just like them. Seriously, could you imagine the reaction if AI was suddenly spewing out William F. Buckley Jr sounding pieces?

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Feral Finster's avatar

AI responds as it is trained.

Q.E.D.

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Pacificus's avatar

Yep, AI is nothing more than garbage in, garbage out.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

When you tell the model (AI) that masks work, the model (AI) tells YOU that masks work!

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DMC's avatar

WFB would break the algorithm

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Even better - Christopher Hitchens.

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Kate Cahill's avatar

Rather-- I love it!!! The would be so much better!

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Drewbacca's avatar

Feature, not a bug.

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Brad's avatar

Google Gemini is absolutely insane. It’s an attempt by a group of fringe upper-class wokes to control information and feed unwitting users only knowledge fit for the progressive vision of society.

https://www.euphoricrecall.net/p/googles-ai-is-insane

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QX's avatar

There is no point in complaining about Google. They've made it very clear they're not going to change. Content creators need to get off their platforms en mass. Take their shows to Substack which now has podcast features and Spotify. Journalists who support free speech like Matt should start reporting on alternative search engines. Maybe interview some of the heads of other search engines. Google search sucks now anyway. People are just using it because they're used to it. It's no longer good, it sucks.

The time for complaining is over. They won't listen. We all need to move on. Take our content and businesses to their competitors. It's the only way things will change.

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Sea Sentry's avatar

I use DuckDuckGo for searching. Google is downright scary.

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QX's avatar

Me too. I also use Brave. Those of us who know how awful Google is left it long ago. I avoid it at all costs unless I have no choice, like group projects where I can't control where content is shared. Or if there's something I can watch only on YT.

But I think it would help expose Google's rot more if people with bigger voices like Matt and others talk more about alternative platforms and search engines.

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Sea Sentry's avatar

Great suggestion!

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SueB's avatar

I agree!

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Feral Finster's avatar

See, questioning election results is Bad, Very Very Bad.

Unless *we* question election results. Then that makes it okay. For example the russiagate conspiracy theory is a wackadoodle conspiracy theory so goofy that it would have gotten you laughed out of the 1962-era John Birch Society, but it also has inspired millions of volunteer FBI agents, amateur intelligence analysts and internet Russia experts, and remains a Team D Article of Faith to this day.

For that matter, I am sure that questioning the Russian Sputnik vaccine for COVID is not anti-vax at all.

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

Questioning *anything * is Bad, VERY VERY BAD, unless it’s them doing the “questioning.”

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Pacificus's avatar

Yeah, you don't see too many Leftist these days sporting the "Question Authority" bumper sticker that was once so popular. It has been replaced by "Obey."

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

Absolutely headspinning. The ACLU's pivot is probably the most stunning - now the American Civil Liberties Underminers

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Paul Harper's avatar

I haven't seen that anywhere in decades. Last time I put that on the board for my undergrad students they looked like they were going to cry. True.

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John Duffner's avatar

Dissent is currently not patriotic anymore.

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Doohmax's avatar

Speaking of questioning election results…..Did they ever get the water pipe leak fixed at the Fulton County vote counting center fixed? Damn. Imagine the luck. Of all days to spring that leak right in the middle of election night.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

*the morning of the election

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Pacificus's avatar

You mean the "water pipe leak" that was actually a leaky toilet?

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Doohmax's avatar

Yep. The overflowing urinal cleared the massive building and took over 4 hours to fix.

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T.'s avatar

Every time I go to an arena event now I wait for

The loudspeaker to announce that there is a clogged toilet in the arena so the game needs to be cancelled

And the arena empire as quickly as possible. It never happens. I guess a leaky toilet is only a big problem during election evening

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Love to see AI commentary on Bush v. Gore - as long as it was Doe v. Smith so that the partisan filters wouldn't automatically trigger.

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Artemus Gordon's avatar

Only the inquisition is allowed to ask questions.

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Michael Meo's avatar

I used to read naked capitalism daily, but don't bother any more. The site jumped the shark. When the incidence of covid was declining, and there were fewer and fewer people hospitalized, at least half of the site was devoted to endless charts and statistics claiming an imminent threat of an increase. When covid had definitely closed up shop and moved on, when no one was bothering to take the third booster, naked capitalism was ringing th gong all-out, predicting a savage wipe-out of the unprepared population.

In other words, naked capitalism was totally unaware of what it didn't know. It claimed expertise it didn't possess.

Obviously that cast considerable doubt on its other, equally absolutely sure, predictions and evaluations (such as that Uber was a sham and would go bankrupt any day now).

No, naked capitalism never spread conspiracy theories or recommended violence in any form; it just didn't know what it was talking about.

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Drewbacca's avatar

That's too bad to hear...definitely jumping the shark. Still, the issue is not Naked Capitalism, but what Google is doing to them.

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Michael Meo's avatar

You're quite correct, Drewbacca; that's why I said naked capitalism had never done any of what it stands accused. But I wrote what needed to be said.

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Spoofs desu's avatar

Mr. Meo,

After being a daily reader of NC since the financial crisis, I also no longer bother visiting there, for similar reasons, since early 2020.

When the moronic shit show was ramping up in early/mid 2020, everybody was hyperventilating about the dramatic increase in covid cases, posting graphs, etc. I posted a comment simply saying you should divide the number of cases by the number of test in order to understand if prevalence was increasing. I was swarmed by morons.

I think they took their first turn south when the WaPo called them out as useful idiots, quoting some sketchy website called prop or not, or something like that.

I also strongly suspect at least some of their regular posters are paid...

Anyway, doesn't change Matt's story that google AI/censorship is total BS.

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Paul Harper's avatar

We still don't know a lot/enough about COVID. That's uncomfortable for folks who need certainty.

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Red Rooster's avatar

Anecdotally, as an on-again, off-again NC reader, my take is that the commentariat there is extremely risk averse. Covid fear fits in well with them.

Interestingly, contrary to Yves and Lambert's fear mongering (and credit to both of them for publishing him), their commenter IM Doc was a go-to source for me in 2021 as he highlighted the inefficacy of the vaccines as well as issues with the Pfizer trials. His commentary provided the proof I needed to analytically support my intuitive skepticism of Covid vaccines based on the fundamental fact that you cannot "warp speed" clinical trials.

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Paul Harper's avatar

Good to hear! Cheers.

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Thunderlips's avatar

For people who seemingly "hate religion" they sure as hell believe they're gods. Is there no company start-up willing to take on the internet freedom challenge? The black hole is rapidly expanding.

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

Google Gemini was released with a ridiculous lack of credibility, specifically to give them cover for” oh, Gemini sometimes makes little mistakes “… no way in HELL did they NOT know it would throw the kind of garbage it did. This is the premier focus of development in a company with supposedly some of the most talented developers in the world.

Gemini is just cover for this kind of censorship - “oh sorry, the “system” does what it wants - everyone knows how crazy it is. It did that, so we can’t really change it..”.

No way did Gemini flag this account.

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Drewbacca's avatar

Really excellent point. I was in software product management/Marketing for a top 50 Global software company for close to 20 years, and there is simply no way in the bad place that something is released without specific, extremely detailed testing plans and phases of testing throughout the development process. No way at all Gemini slipped such significant "mistakes" past all of that. None.

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Artemus Gordon's avatar

I agree. I worked in technology my whole career and have worked multiple times in test engineering both hardware and software. They knew exactly what the tool would do when released to the real world. The release was a test of the audience. Would it go unnoticed? How much backlash will we get? Do we really care? Is the populace now desensitized to the output? etc...

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Dave Slate's avatar

I worked for several decades as a computer programmer with a focus on predictive analytics. Although I'm not an expert on "Large Language Models" like Gemini, ChatGPT, etc., in my opinion these gadgets are just too complicated for their behavior to be well-predicted by their developers or anyone else. Yes, it is possible to bias them to some extent towards particular positions on political, economic, or cultural issues, but even if the developers tried their best to make them "objective" and unbiased, they would still tend to "go off the rails" and give bizarre responses if given the "right" input. I think they are at best able to suggest interesting text, sounds, and images, but in their present state of development the output of these contraptions shouldn't be taken very seriously as factual information.

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Lauren A's avatar

People need to seriously start thinking about alternatives to the Google ecosystem and transition themselves. Brave (for browsing, includes a community-driven ad monetization feature), other web3 products in development for alternative delivery and monetization strategy, etc. (encrypted email, the list goes on). Unfortunately none of these compete with the Google Ads network today, but they will. Sadly Google is unwinding the very conditions that made it a trusted platform and thus successful in the first place.

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

Google is just the tip of the sword. Try to build something actually challenging, and Amazon servers will ban you, the banking system will reject you, the US Congress will come through with the fastest “bi partisan effort to”protect” the country “ imaginable. From Parler to TikTok to all the little people crushed in between. There will be no alternative when a Supreme Court Justice openly says “help me keep the government all- powerful…”

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

I had to troubleshoot a problem my wife had on her Android phone. Tracked it down to a call in the OS that could not be managed - for ad service that a near-malware was exploiting. Only solution was to remove the offending app. Don't Be Evil was a lie from the beginning.

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TeeJae's avatar

I've used Mozilla Firefox for years, and I love it.

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madrad's avatar

Brave is literally chromium. It’s not an alternative. The only actual alternative browser engines left are Firefox and Safari.

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

For gawdsakes - let Google kill the advertising-based model. It isn't like there is no alternative. We pay for the content we want here and Google can eat shit and die. And we don't get blasted with corporate slime.

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

But it works FOR THEM. Everything they do WORKS FOR THEM. (Or their chosen tools in government.) WE don’t matter one tiny bit.

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

For many years my primary if not sole concern was with govt power and the abuse thereof. The one redeeming aspect of capitalism is you are not forced to use any company's service/product - not even Google. What the bastards did figure out is that we are willing to sacrifice almost everything for convenience, and they use that against us.

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

And it’s not just Google - Amazon servers, the entire banking/credit system - everything can be depleted if they choose. (Check Parler’s experience for the full-court-press.)

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Yes, and where govt grants monopoly power - directly or indirectly. The corporations end up serving their masters, for a corporation is a creation of the State, and in the end, to the State it returns.

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Richard Rosenthal's avatar

For years Google has proven it is being operated under aegis of the late Joseph Goebbels and the Information Ministry of the Third Reich. Goobles censorship and suppression of info and access to safe effective early treatment remedies and their medical expert advocates, perforce, caused the suffering and death of countless Americans and others around the globe. This FACT needs to be more widely known so that the most arrogant fascist internet presence is subjected to greater scrutiny, and held responsible for the immense damage it has done and is doing to society.

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Thoughtful Reader's avatar

Too late. It is already widely known - and supported by everyone with real power. There’s no cavalry coming. There will be no “holding anyone responsible.”

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Samhain's avatar

Honestly, voting Republican, straight down the ticket, is America's last, best hope at this point.

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Thunderlips's avatar

I wish I shared your hope that the Republicans will be our saviors, but alas TikTok shows they're just as verminous.

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TeeJae's avatar

Actually, America's last, best hope at this point is ditching BOTH parties and voting independent/3rd party straight down the ticket. The 2 party duopoly IS the Establishment, which needs to be DE-established.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

AI is the 'perfect' form of censorship, because intentional acts can be obfuscated by 'the algorithm', and when the 'mistake' is made, the liars simply say 'oopsie poopsie! we promise not to do it again!'

And they're turning their sights on people who actually read primary sources.

Yes, you read that correctly.

https://thefederalist.com/2024/03/07/ai-censorship-targets-people-who-read-primary-sources-to-fact-check-the-news/

eople dedicated to sacred texts and American documents such as “the Bible or the Constitution,” the MIT team said, were more susceptible to “disinformation” because they “often focused on reading a wide array of primary sources, and performing their own synthesis.” Such citizens “adhered to deeper narratives that might make them suspicious of any intervention that privileges mainstream sources or recognized experts.”

“Because interviewees distrusted both journalists and academics, they drew on this practice [of reading primary sources] to fact check how media outlets reported the news,” MIT’s successful federal grant application said.

People who did this were less likely to believe the federal government’s propaganda, making them prime obstacles to government misinformation. Researchers are targeting people in these categories to figure out how to manipulate them into believing government narratives, emails and documents in the House report show.

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BradK (Afuera!)'s avatar

"Free thinking is the enemy of the collective"

And......history just keeps repeating itself. The only way out of the loop is to learn how to play the piano and romance Andie McDowell.

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Kurl Malone's avatar

The Chalmers Johnson book "Blowback" was a real boon to my critical thought in the years after 911, and it's very odd to see it pop up in an article on censorship twenty years later.

What a strange life, having once idolized Noam Chomsky with the caveat that I disagreed with his anarchist leanings in 2001 and now idolizing Ron Paul and finding Chomsky lacking in every arena of thought SAVE his anarchist leanings.

I will (as a 30 year registered independent) be pledging my vote to the libertarian party in the 2024 presidential election unless they run RFK Jr.

I hope they put forward Rectenwald as the candidate. If nothing else he will be an intelligent placeholder until I can vote Dave Smith to get the Ron Paul to more ears.

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MS's avatar

I, too, was surprised to see that a flag was put on a book review of Chalmer's Johnson's book "Blowback". His trilogy of books on the repercussions of American Empire were excellent.

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Erin Marie Miller's avatar

I'm not sure AI censorship can be stopped, and it will absolutely be problematic for almost every group and demographic at one point or another as we move into this tightly-controlled future.

But I also think instead of fighting that future, we need to focus on simply creating an alternative one. We need to focus on building a world that is more organically connected and informed -- one that relies less on technology. Maybe this means a return to tangible magazines and newspapers, building inclusive community organizations, etc. The answer to all of these problems is bringing humans together.

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Safir Ahmed's avatar

When I was a young reporter at a daily newspaper eons ago, I would run up against Metro Desk editors who wanted to change or tone down, or rephrase my articles. In most cases, I would simply walk across the newsroom and talk them out of it, more often than not.

But to be edited -- censored, really -- by a frickin' bot?

Two thoughts:

1. This is the result of Google and the other Big Tech corporations being hounded by Democrats in recent years to ban "hate speech" "misinformation" and such, and so now perhaps they want to endear themselves to the Dems by censoring this kind of nonsense.

2. For all their talk about Trump being a "threat to democracy" the Democrats seem incapable of looking in the mirror. They fail to understand that a democracy rests on the old cliché of "a marketplace of ideas".

The Democrats, and their friends in Big Tech, seem to want a monopoly of ideas, not a real, thriving marketplace of ideas.

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TeeJae's avatar

Amen!

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jane allen's avatar

AI quite obviously is a blunt instrument not to be trusted. But I find a certain irony in Yves Smith complaining about being censored. I was a regular reader, and financial supporter, of Naked Capitalism for a number of years, finding the articles interesting and comments unusually informed. But I was regularly disturbed by what struck me as Yves' dictatorial review of comments, often threatening to block certain posters without, it seemed to me, any legitimate reason. More than that, her tone was typically superior and scolding. Well, I finally got a taste of the treatment myself -- for daring to question NC's almost obsessive opposition to charter schools. My own daughter attended a charter for seven years, and I wrote attempting to point out some of the positives about own experience, some of which contradicted the accepted anti-charter narrative. The response -- first from Lambert, then from Yves -- was immediate and dismissive. I replied, attempting to deal with their objections -- which provoked even more vehement response from Yves -- who speculated that I was probably a troll or, worse, an employee of a charter school. Neither was true. One lone poster came to my defense, saying he'd been away from the site for some time and was distressed now to see the "toxic" treatment being handed out a poster who seemed to have to have a reasonable point of view. I replied to Yves, denying her accusations -- but she blocked me. She maligned me with false accusations, and then censored my response.

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craazyman's avatar

Me too.

Although in my case it wasn't so black & white. I acknowledge there was room for a fair misunderstanding. I was only disappointed how they handled it, and nevertheless (and even now) I fully respect their right to curate their own comment section.

Yet there is a "taste of their own medicine" quality to this predicament they face. Lambert would routinely chastise commenters that triggered his temper with the line "it's a big internet", and imply they should go read and post elsewhere.

Indeed, it's a big internet with billions of potential readers and site viewers. Maybe if Google doesn't like them, they should build their viewership strategy without it? I'm just being a little snide to highlight their slight hypocrisy. Actually, in this case I fully agree Google is the bad actor here, not NC. If everyone faced these arbitrary decisions it would make self-publishing on any controversial or complex topic all but impossible. But those who throw stones for a living should be a little more self aware. Ecce Homo.

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ChiGal's avatar

I think I remember when you got “disappeared” some years ago CraazyMan and I was sorry to lose a fellow traveler whose comments were at times inspired. But as I recall it did seem kind of legitimate: you got on a hobby horse about how the civil war wasn’t about slavery?

I appreciate Yves’ iron hand on the wheel because it results in such quality discourse—and yes, her party, her rules ;-)

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craazyman's avatar

I don’t recall that at all. Good grief. And I’ve never in my life believed or argued that. I do recall at the time Yves accused me of supporting in some way the Charlottesville protests (this was 2017 Charlotttesville, VA torch marchers from Unite the Right).

At that time I said the less attention paid to them, the better. I made the analogy that in 1980s the Nazis would march on Sundays in towns and it would get covered on page 37 of the National News section of the paper. Nobody cared. IIRC, Yves Smith said my views were equivalent to supporting them. That was not remotely true,

At any rate, clearly we disagreed on that point.

Regarding the Civil War and slavery, at the time it wasn’t a big concern across the northern states. IF you read Lincoln’s speeches during his first campaign and initially, he wasn’t interested in abolishing it. Most in the north didn’t care. If you read Frederick Douglass, he also observed the lack of concern about it in the north. This isn’t my personal opinion. And anyone who doesn’t understand that doesn’t understand American history or group psychology.

The tariffs placed on the southern states by the north were a more powerful initial causes belli. Slavery later became one. That’s not to say the Civil War wasn’t “about slavery” as you put it. OF COURSE IT WAS! It was about other things too — simultaneously and in succession.

At any rate, no argument with your conclusion — NC has every right to moderate their comment section. In my view they could have done it — way back then anyway — with a little less arbitrary dictates and a little more clarity about ground rules.

PS - ChiGal, I don’t wish to sound contentious at all. I truly appreciate your “hello” here and your kind words.

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Jeff W's avatar

The way I recall it was that you made a comment to the effect that Yves was having a “bad day,” she went into “How dare you!” mode, and <poof!> you were gone. It struck me at the time as a peremptory move.

I recall another comment you made at one point that I thought was really clever, witty, and well-written—it was some (obviously) satirical comment about Yves—and she reacted sharply and negatively to it, something about the reputational risk to the site. At the time I thought a better response would have been to laugh it off—again, I thought your comment was genuinely funny—but that is not her style.

Of course NC has a right to moderate its comment section but I think often the style (rather than the substance) creates an environment that doesn’t feel especially safe. (I made a comment to that effect once and ChiGal, in fact, agreed with me.) A very simple example is Yves’s responding to comments with “*sigh*.” It’s unnecessary and comes across as high-handed.

As for the Civil War/slavery issue, Benjamin Studebaker says

“The production of raw cotton got in the way of American economic development, just as the production wine got in the way of the development of France and Portugal. The only way to overcome the political obstacles presented by the cotton industry was to destroy it, and the best way to destroy the cotton industry was to emancipate the slaves that were necessary to operate it. The moral argument against slavery and the economic argument against cotton went hand in hand.”

So, it seems Ben would agree that the Civil War was about slavery and other things (e.g., Northern industrialists wanting to impose powerful tariffs) as well.

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Grzegorz's avatar

I've been reading NC daily since GFC, including most of the comments. The comments are heavily moderated but the resulting standard is top notch. Yves has short temper but I guess you can't have it any other way if you want to keep the noise to signal ratio in the black. I had my comments deleted too a couple of times but i understand why & don't mind.

I am also a paid subscriber here but I prefer NC's comment section. Here it is too US centric for me.

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Barbara's avatar

For those who say "screw Google et al" I would like to point out that due to our "thriving economy" some of us (I suspect many) have limited funds to subscribe to all of the sites and podcasts we would like to support. I know this is totally old-fashioned but since we're talking community, what if Rumble et al had a group rate - you get so many subscriptions for X dollars - spreading the funding around? It would help newer actual journalists and others to get a start and form a more perfect union.

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John Horst's avatar

Large Language Models = Computational Sophistry.

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craazyman's avatar

It's like the old Dan Akryod SNL skit -- OK we're going back decades -- where he puts a bass fish in a blender and Frappes it up right on camera.

LLM's do a lot of good things, as do blenders, but LLM's being the school hall monitor equivalent of the political language police isn't one of them.

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BradK (Afuera!)'s avatar

The "Bass-o-matic". I miss the old Saturday Night when it was actually funny, instead of lamely and transparently pushing an agenda.

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BradK (Afuera!)'s avatar

One the most most durable gags from the 70's when when the dual-blade razor was introduced. SN spoofed on it by introducing the "triple blade" razor with the tag line "because you'll buy anything".

Now we're up to what, four or five blades?

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BradK (Afuera!)'s avatar

Not so much a product as it is an info-op. "Distract and restrain".

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publius_x's avatar

Stochastic Idiocy

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John Horst's avatar

No, no, no... Deterministic idiocy!

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Rather Curmudgeonly's avatar

Are you sure it isn't chaotic idiocy?

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John Horst's avatar

No, I'm pretty sure it's on purpose.

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