During one of the debates Trump asked Biden how he came to own three very expensive homes. Trump made a sarcastic face and said something like “it makes no sense”, but then he let it go. I think he could’ve won the election with that issue alone. That is the populace tact that could win - Dem or GOP. Nancy how did you become rich? Hamme…
During one of the debates Trump asked Biden how he came to own three very expensive homes. Trump made a sarcastic face and said something like “it makes no sense”, but then he let it go. I think he could’ve won the election with that issue alone. That is the populace tact that could win - Dem or GOP. Nancy how did you become rich? Hammer on that. Mitch can’t help but notice you’re a millionnaire. What are the politicians tax returns say, how much did they earn and does that equate to 3 homes.
And their wealth is just the grease on the rails that moved the big money. Trump was already rich and was immune to the trap. It was fun to watch a incorruptable patroit swinging like Iron Mike against the tide of slime. Hope he gets in the ring again, but he's earned a retirememt imo.
Trump came from a family fortune based on being a slumlord, not paying your bills and solving problems by suing people. He is not a patriot, he is a grifter.
Slowly, very slowly, I feel like there is a convergence between left and right developing in Matt's comments page, on at least some key issues. It's one of the main reasons I'm here. Not everyone is feeling the love, but some perceptible and gratifying connections are being made.
That said, someone will be here shortly to complain about something like Trump charging the Secret Service for staying in his hotels when they accompanied him and point to this as evidence of corruption. (They will not know, or will ignore, that Biden charges the Secret Service to stay at his guest house, and of course they are not displacing other paying guests, as they would be at the Trump hotels.)
But here's an undeniable fact: Public service has made Trump poorer, but it has made the Bidens, Obamas, and Clintons much, much richer.
I feel like if a politician did that, they would probably be universally despised by all the establishment figures in DC and the press. In my more paranoid moments, I can even imagine them being framed by the intelligence agencies, to destroy any chance of having a successful Presidency.
That's the reason this dead horse keeps getting beaten. If you don't want politicians to get rich, I don't know what to tell you. Even the people running the Soviet Union got rich, at least comparatively.
How can you avoid that when the Committee for Doing Good Things and the National Sweetness and Love Council take your well-meaning fiduciary virtue signals, and DONATE THEM TO POLITICIANS' campaigns? When Amazon/Alphabet/Apple/Netflix/M$, etc can all find ways to direct funds to them? When the old-school corps of Big Pharma, Big Ag, the MIC, etc., can all do the same?
I mean, it's the correct action, but won't solve anything.
«Even the people running the Soviet Union got rich, at least comparatively.»
That "comparatively" is a wild exaggeration, for example, here someone who was Minister for Science and Energy in the 1960 in the UK describes an official visit to the UK, from his diary, 1963-06-14:
“In the evening we went to dinner with Kirillin and his wife and daughter, Ola, at their flat, along with the Ambassador, and Gvishiani, Academician Artsemivitsch and Academician Keldersh. Madame Santalova was the interpreter. I had been told by the Ambassador that Russian Ministers never invite British Ministers to their flats or homes and he was absolutely amazed when this invitation came in but it was, of course, because I had asked Kirillin to my home in London. It was lovely. We sat and talked in a tiny little flat where he and his wife and child live. Kirillin is one of the Vice-Premiers of the Soviet Union and an eminent scientist. We sat in his little library while the meal was being laid and we ate together, then he showed us home movies of his trip to England and having snowballs thrown at him by the children.”
And he was an Academician, a category that still today in Russia enjoys the greatest prestige (in a poll more people said that their dream was to be an academician than an oligarch).
Skeptic says: "...That said, someone will be here shortly to complain about something like Trump charging the Secret Service for staying in his hotels when they accompanied him and point to this as evidence of corruption. (They will not know, or will ignore, that Biden charges the Secret Service to stay at his guest house, and of course they are not displacing other paying guests, as they would be at the Trump hotels.)"
First off, the Secret Service does not "charge" or bill presidents for their work. The government, a.k.a. the taxpayers, pick up the tab.
And from BusinessInsider:
"Even when Trump's golf club in Bedminster, N.J. was closed up earlier in the coronavirus pandemic, the documents obtained in the lawsuit show the Secret Service still got hit with a $21,800 charge for a cottage rental and other room fees....The usual rate for agents to stay at a Trump property — even when there's no indication he will stop by — is $567 per night, according to the Post....That's a far cry from the mere "50 bucks" per room Eric Trump claimed the taxpayers dish out when defending the practice back in October 2016."
Perhaps it's an accounting error with the travel ledgers. Junior miscatalogued the $50 bucks for, you know, maybe a discount hooker down on her luck---something like that, but for goodness sake who knows with those boys....
Donald Trump’s adult children reportedly cost taxpayers $140,000 in Secret Service security in the month after the clan’s patriarch left the White House in January.
Ordinarily, family members of a president lose their security detail when they leave office. But in the case of the four Trump siblings and two of their spouses, the former president issued a directive to extend post-presidency protections by six months.
The costs, obtained by the watchdog group Citizens for Ethics, do not include security protections at Trump properties in New Jersey, Palm Beach and Briarcliff, New York. With those factored in, the total would likely be far higher, according to the group.
According to the watchdog, records reveal that the Trump children maintained a “breakneck speed of travel, and racked up significant hotel and transportation bills for the Secret Service”.
Transport costs alone amounted to $52,296.75, and hotel costs totaled at least $88,678.39.The watchdog found that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump went from their jobs at the White House to a 10-day vacation in Utah, racking up hotel costs of $62,599. After a month in Miami, they stayed at Trump’s Bedminster golf property for three days in late February.
Eric and Lara Trump spent much of February at Trump’s Briarcliff property, interspersed with trips to New York, Miami and Palm Beach, at a cost of $12,742.
Donald Trump Jr also spent time in New York City, on Long Island, and in upstate New York, racking up bills of $13,337.
But Citizens for Ethics said the Secret Service did not provide records of spending at Trump businesses.
“While it may be tempting to put the story of the Trump family’s profiteering in the past, we cannot until they have actually stopped directing taxpayer money into their own bank accounts,” the group said.
Ah, the Trumps: the family that drifts together....grifts together.
Yep. Secret Service costs. You've made an ironclad case for corruption.
I'm sure you also have them tabulated to the penny for the Obamas and Clintons for comparison.
By the way, people on the right used to do this exact same thing for Obama's Secret Service costs for trips to Hawaii, a big trip to France for Michelle and the daughters, etc. etc. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.
Why would Trump people even think they need Secret Service Protection? Just paranoid, right? Quoting Maxine Waters: "“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere. We’ve got to get the children connected to their parents.”
Yes. Why would they even think they needed protection? After all, none less that Maxine Waters threatened them, and called for the general population to do the same? Why might they feel threatened? Must be paranoia?
Interesting. Out of the blocks with the gratuitous assumption that I'm defending the Obamas. Was I defending the Obamas? I don't believe I was defending the Obamas. But I must say it was a rather clumsy pivot away from the issue at hand, which is, quite simply, your categorical irresponsible posting (and intellectual laziness), and propensity for churning out third-rate propaganda in lieu of fact stating. But you get a gold star for chivalry, even if it is second-hand chivalry, for advocating for continued secret service protection for the "kids" from the intrepid Maxine Waters. Personally, I myself would feel a lot more comfortable with the 101st Airborne between me and "Mad Max." And Skeptic, if it's any consolation to you, the last person to call me a democrat got punched in the face....
Well, I can personally attest to the expenses of U.S. taxpayer contributions to Mr. Dick Cheney's dry cleaning bills? I happened to live in the area of Jackson WY during Mr. Cheney's reign. It wasn't entirely without notice.
Dick seemed to have a proclivity for disrupting the lives of his neighbors to the extent we'd avoid even being in the same area as he was, which was difficult in a place that only had 10,000 people in it to start with? On the upside, it was pretty easy to notice his presence by looking for black towncars in the parking lot.
Weak tea my man. Super weak. You reference a Newsweek (!) article written 5 months after Trump was inaugurated, a low effort hit piece. And an inscrutable unreferenced chart of nothing.
Or the rank corruption of Biden withholding aid to Ukraine to remove a prosecutor who stood in the way of Hunter's installation on the board of Burisma. https://youtu.be/rtO1OigwfVs
Turn off CNN and do some research. You will find many more examples, but only if you want to learn the truth. Biden family is pure graft, and part and parcel of the Deep State for decades. FBI has Hunters' laptop for like 2 years now, yet no prosecution at all, in spite of reported lurid interactions with minor relatives. Anyone in possession of Hunters' laptop possesses child pornography. Pretty good disincentive for getting involved there, especially in the current milieu of selective enforcement.
Or how he was never prosecuted for falsifying a firearm application, a felony. Discharged from armed services for drugs, but a couple years later no history of drug use on his firearm application... works if your name is Biden.
Inescapable conclusion is the Bidens are favored members of the Deep State, and the IC and MSM wings are doing their best to protect them. OTOH Trump is sworn enemy to IC and MSM because he is outside their control. He already had money, and he loves America.
To those of us who paid attention for the last 5 years this is obvious. To those who devoured the fear porn of CNN for the last 5 years, might as well be written in Linear A.
Madjack's "never took a salary" explanation for Trump's financial martyrdom as president is all too typical of most of the posts that fill the comments section of Taibbi's substack---to date. Quality of thought and reasoned argument very poor and makes for an overall disappointing experience here at TK News. Anybody else around here find comments and threads less than edifying?
I've never really seen a comment section that wasn't at least half if not more just people venting their frustration with the shadows on the wall of the cave not doing what they want them to.
It's also very difficult in a time where reality is a commodity and facts are like finding a turtle with a mustache.
I agree. But the media spent four years being shocked, shocked at supposedly unprecedented outrages from Trump, while ignoring similar behavior from Democrats. It got old, and it drove some credulous people into hysteria.
Yeah...The Dems all took his campaign donations when he was a democrat. He was just as much of misogynistic pagan back then but the Clintons loved him. Pelosi took his dough and I'm sure Chucky S did as well.
No, Fox news was gushing about him the whole time. 5 years ago, Fox was shocked about everything Obama did, while the liberal side gushed. Both sides have their own propaganda and they both tell everyone else that they are the real enemies of America.
Yeah. I don't subscribe to voting for the lessor of two evil thing, binary choice or everyone telling me I'm throwing away my vote. I still vote even it means a write in. I say lets just stop voting for shitty politicians.
If there was no CCP Virus, we would be rocking now. We were on a roll 2017-2019.
Say we find China created COVID. Would the next question be on purpose. And we all know Fauci financed part of the study. There are a lot of implications there.
What I can't understand is why the Democrats wanted to blame the US for COVID????
This is not love of AMERICA. They want a One World Government run by the elites:
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years… (censorship)…It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination (VOTING) practiced in past centuries.
" The present pandemic is a “golden opportunity” for radical change. And if Al Gore, Prince Charles, the elites, and the rest of the World Economic Forum can convince enough people that attempting to stop climate change is also worth dramatically pushing humanity toward greater government control, then radical – and catastrophic – change is exactly what we’re going to get."
The gullibles don't realize that in the USA (and in the world) it is real estate mobsters who bribe or blackmail politicians, not vice-versa. Trump probably could have been convicted many times over of bribery, but that issue was never brought up because the vast majority of the politicians he bribed must have been from the Democratic party (in NYC and NJ, likely to get building permits and other favourable decisions).
His attitude to Republicans instead was different: he was one of their biggest campaign donors ever (probably to get even more favourable tax rules for real estate).
"Incorruptible" is going too far. But he did have a certain degree of immunity that occasionally produced interesting remarks. Roughly along these lines was my favorite, his declaration that he loved the "poorly educated." It was really kind of brilliant.
RJF, Trump didn't want to explain how he got so "rich". Especially when his tax information was almost released. That would have been a disaster for him.
That is just one of the many baseless smears about Trump.
He is very rich, if only because he inherited a lot of NYC real estate decades ago, and NYC has ballooned in price over the decades.
Also the tax return is pointless, we all know that thanks to various loopholes he did not pay tax, but he has give a far more useful document. A previous commenter has summyrized well:
“Tax returns tell you nothing of substance. Check out Biden's from 2017, for example. [...] The real picture - the best view - is in the required financial disclosures. Then you see assets and other income sources not available in a return. Trump's are available too. He IS fabulously wealthy and has impressive assets. The point is, tax returns are a distraction - they are in no way a meaningful look at someone's finances. This is especially true when multiple corporations and corporations within corporations complicate the view.”
Maybe he isn't as rich as he wanted people to think he was. If, as this article proposes, the US is a plutocracy. Then, Trump has to maintain his Master of the Universe illusion.
applaud? No Sir I do not. He wasn't the first blatant liar President, nor the last. He did however, mostly by accident, I think, reveal what's actually behind the curtain
Not irrelevant. But also not immediately important?
A person running for national office is inherently unknown. Who could really expect the entire US popularion to sit down and carefully examine any Presidential candidate? Honestly?
Not only won't it happen, it can't. The electoral system no longer enables representative voting and it verty certainly doesn't enable presidential voting. Our obligation is to fix a system designed for 13 states and somewhere around 100,000 people, to a country of almost 4M and 50 states. Is it any surprise a 200+ year old system is leaking a bit?
Our system of election was designed well before the telegraph was invented. It was set up to allow delegates to travel by horseback from state to state until they arrived at Washington DC and cast their vote, expressing the will of the people. That's what it did, and it did it well for over 100 years.
I wouldn't personally have difficulty with the peaceful breakup (Balkanization) of the United States. It may well be our best course of action.
Times have changed. Now we have electronic communications, and as much as I hate to mention it, the ability to create a true democracy. I'm not an advocate of direct democracy; I feel it's prone to the failures of mob rule and I'll cite France as an example; mob rule doesn't work well, though it does work in a sort of stumbling "we'll get there eventually" way?
But democracy does eventually work, and we could make it work in the future, but we need to take steps now or we risk losing this great experiment. As a conservative it's very difficult for me to put this question on the table, but it will end up there regardless.
We all need to figure this out and we need to do it very soon. Where is Thomas Jefferson when we need him?
I didn't change the subject. I embellished what BlueRocket said. "what's actually behind the curtain". So mind your own business. No one want's to hear your dribble.
Wouldn't know if they were breaking the law? Hahahahahahaha -- laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes. A guy who owed how much in unpaid taxes, Tim Geitner, who was head of the NY Fed leading up to 2008 financial disaster, was confirmed as Obama's Treasury Secretary. Sharpton, who may still (allegedly) owe thousands to NY and/or other taxing bodies, was Obama's racial affairs guru and frequent White House guest --- a role model for us all. So funny.
I keep forgetting corruption is only bad when the dems do it and fine and dandy when your team does it is all..... : )
Sorry I forget that you're caught up in magical thinking and have the memory capacity of a gnat on crack.
Maybe you should look at who else turbo Timmy worked for ?
Or do you even care when in reality you just want to cheer for your team...... Because in your magical world, only the other team is bad and corrupt, right ??
I did, however, just notice our host has made the effort to tag Skutch as a "Useful Idiot", though I'm still unclear on the nature of its usefulness? Perhaps entertainment value?
I have my doubts concerning the political proclivities of our mutual aquaintence Skutch? I'm not at all convinced ol' Skutch is a registered Democrat or Republican? I don't think trolls can register in any state other than the state of confusion...
It chears me you actually have to pay our host for the privilege of posting meaningless drivel in his comments section. Sort of a stupidity tax I suppose...
And I didn't actually hurl it. It was more of a toss...
Unfortunately, my mommie is long since dead. She was a wonderful woman and my father predeceased her by 35 years. Plutonium poisoning. Responsible for the Polaris, Posidon and Trident fleet ballistic missile systems. May they rest in peace through superior firepower.
It's pretty much safe to say that we all expect you to like your own posts, so why is it you keep doing it? OK. You like your own posts. Put that thing back in your shorts and let it heal?
It's safer to say you use daddies money to hire people to like your posts as well as to bugger little children and small animals. It would be a surprise if you still had anything left to heal.
I don't really take advantage of children or small animals. Just want to go on record with that.
Where did you come up with the idea? What experience do you have with abusing children and small animals that you might conclude I had such intentions?
I'm terribly sorry you may have thought that. I can't place where, in my conversation with you so far, you might have reached it?
My daddie did what he had to do, nothing more, certainly never less. He literally lived and subsequently died by the sword. I both honor and respect him.
I think the IRS would be the first to catch them. If there is no outstanding evidence, you're just fishing which is what the democrats do with their many Conspiracy Investigations.
I don't. If someone is breaking the law there are consequences. Even when I believe the law is immoral it must be upheld. It is the one thing that holds us together. The rule of law. You and others want to define morality for all of us. It is driven by altruism that too fight to control. I truly believe your heart is the right place but your attempt to impose your understanding on me or others is perplexing. I believe excessive taxation is immoral. It is coercion. Corruption is not confined to those that are wealthy but someone has convinced you it is. Do you hold those on the lower end of the wealth spectrum to the same standard?
"I don't. If someone is breaking the law there are consequences."
Really now, so how come only those breaking the law on one team deserve your scorn ? How come people buying their way out of their consequences escapes your scrutiny ?
"You and others want to define morality for all of us."
So we just won't define morality and allow everyone to decide for themselves what it is ?
Who fills you full of this bullshit ?
You actually believe the rule of law is being upheld ?
Funny how you want to impose your ideas on everyone else about what excessive taxation is while excluding anyone that disagrees with you about morality from taking part in deciding what it should consist of don't you think ?
When did I say corruption was exclusively a problem with the wealthy exactly ??
Do you actually believe that the wealthy setting an example of being corrupt has no effect on everyone else ??
Your problem is thinking even immoral law should be upheld out of some weird dogma brought about by tradition.
Slavery used to be the law until it was changed.
Now I would hope you'd view ending slavery as a positive thing. I shutter to think of what you're willing to abide by or believe in after a statement like that.
You're making it very easy for any new cult of personality to bring about more atrocities like we had leading up to WW2.
Your just being silly. Laws applied relative to the conversation as it applies to taxation and current laws considered that you or I may differ on but are not so far out on the extremes of insanity. I know you know that. Your bringing slavery into the conversation is predictable because you just can't help yourself. If current law states that anyone including the narcistic pagan that was our previous president broke it, then he should/must accept the consequences. My thoughts about taxation are irrelevant in that context however I still believe (while not perfect) that when I or others believe the law is flawed and works against individual rights we can and must do what we can. Not perfect but the institutions are still holding. Here in West pandemic overreach restrictions have been successfully challenged in court. I see how the fruits of my labor are taken and given to others through coercion but I still pay what the law says I must and fight through what's available. (Voting against tax measures that are excessive etc.). Is there a time to take a bold steps against state actions that are so horrific, you bet. And on that my conscious is clear. To go from someone's contribution on this chain regarding tax policy to your pathetic suggestion that me or anyone else would have been complicit in slavery or events leading up to WW2 is tragic. I just can't take your contribution seriously but do hope you find peace in your life. Take Care!
Ignore Skutch. Among other nonsense he wants to dig for fairies in the dust in other folks' homes. No need for probable cause: If you are rich, you are corrupt, therefore disclose your private papers.
Once again, if you don't know how much Trump owes then you CANNOT speculate upon how wealthy he is.
He's on public record stating that he counts loans as assets. If I get to define the standards and definition of wealth, I too could be fabulously wealthy.
«did he try his damnedest to keep them away from the public eye»
Obviously because he did not pay any tax despite being very wealthy and having a huge real income. Most likely he and the other real estate moghuls did not want publicity for the enormous loopholes that he (and them) purchased over the decades from Congress. Only the little people pay taxes...
But that is a completely different issue from how wealthy and successful in business he has been. His hiding the tax return was not because he is actually poor and needs to be bribed by russian politicians with a few hotel bills, like the roaring buffoons arguing about the "Emoluments Clause" were implying.
He's on record stating he counts loan money as assets so please tell me how if no one can possibly know how rich he is you know he is very wealthy and has a huge income..........
I used to believe that too. Honestly. But as I aged, experienced more of the tax code and how it applied tome and others, I found the loopholes to be mostly nonexistent. There was a year back in the early 2000's I grossed over $3 million and I paid enough in taxes I felt snubbed because no one named a U.S. Aircraft carrier for me. :)
But generally I think you'll find a conspicous lack of loopholes, and I really mean that. It's almost the golden fleece of American Dreams, that after you achieve some level of income the tax code simply disappears; it stops being a problem. That isn't so, and there are many folks around to attest to it.
Now I find the code much more lenient. I don't make much money in my old age and my guess is I actually take in more government funding than I pay. In the past ten or so years I haven't paid any taxes at all?
«It's almost the golden fleece of American Dreams, that after you achieve some level of income the tax code simply disappears»
Personal income enjoys few loopholes, but there are large discounts for capital taxes, significant loopholes for corporate taxes, and the sky is the limit for offshore corporate tax loopholes. So the key techniques are to capitalize income, launder it through a corporate shell, and ideally an offshore corporate shell managed by nominees.
This is most convenient for the owners of businesses (Warren Buffet pointed out he paid a lower percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary), but even the CEOs and CFOs of many corporates are not "John Smith", the person, but "JS Management Services, postbox 666, Dubai City, UAE".
An example from a comment on an english newspaper from the owner of a London cleaning business:
«London is indeed full of oligarchs from the USA to Outer Mongolia, hell bent of out spending and out doing their neighbours, if they even bother to turn up. Running a small cleaning company in the magic areas over the last few years has been insane. The demand for our cleaning services is high and we are able to turn down the so called oligarchs who whine about price but never about the quality, of course it won’t last
Many of our payments are coming from North African based banks within the Spanish territories, Morocco, Algeria and most unusual Mali, who seems to issue a huge number of loaded debit cards for payment of services. In very recent years,many of the houses we clean, have been mortgaged to once again Mali based banks, although they have very familiar names, eg Santander.»
In fact, I've considered the tax code, as it applies to personal income, as I kind of glass ceiling for the middle class? A way to keep the vermin at bay?
The thought is that if you design the tax code to stop the hoi palloi, you won't have to fight them off in the trenches later?
Well. perhaps you're right then. I admit I haven't personally experienced that level of wealth.
And it is something I've thought about, that there might be a sort of quantum leap between the "sort of rich" and the seriously rich? I have no practical experience with that, nor do I consider a piddling $3M a year "rich" any longer.
«I have no practical experience with that, nor do I consider a piddling $3M a year "rich" any longer.»
I remember an example, these are the approximate numbers:
* Business has sales of $4-$5m per year.
* 2 co-CEOs pay themselves $80,000 per year, and pay personal income tax on that.
* Company accounts declare a yearly profit of $120,000 and it pays tax on that.
* Company accounts also show that the company pays $600,000 a year to an offshore (in a country with no corporate profits tax) entity for "administrative services".
That is a pretty standard arrangement, and a fairly well designed one. Sometimes the offshore company owns the building and charges rents, sometimes it owns the brand and charges royalties, etc. etc. etc.
Wrong, 87% of the INCOME TAX is payed by the top 20 %. which are receiving 87% of the AGI.
So after all the loopholes they get to subtract from their income they only report getting almost 90% of the income.
If you want 90% of the income you should pay more taxes instead of corrupting the government and starting very expensive forever wars in order to start "developing' markets.....
I read WSJ too. I'm not sure you read more than the fucking headlines though. LOL IN YOUR ACTUAL FACE! That article was literally called "87% of taxes are paid by top 20%". Holy shit you made my day regurgitating that. Did you even read the article???? Here's the study guide for you... What minimum household income
“For 2018, households in the top 20% will have income of about $150,000 or more and 52% of total income, about the same as in 2017. But they will pay about 87% of income taxes, up from about 84% last year.” Thanks to Trump.
You have a dirty mouth to match your limited brain!
I do. Not all but many create great value for all of us. They invest and build things that make all our lives better. Why should one segment of our citizenry be demonized and discriminated against because of their success.
So, Borderland, would you support changing tax law to make it illegal: closing the loopholes that currently allow "legalized corruption" — tax breaks that effectively apply only to the rich and wealthy, loopholes they paid for in perks, bribes and campaign donations (including hidden donations via "independent" PACs)?
Mar 14, 2017The official added that Trump "paid $38m even after taking into account large-scale depreciation for construction, on an income of more than $150m, as well as paying tens of millions of dollars in...
Mail order bride? She came to the U.S. as a successful international model before she met him. I don't think Trump's personal life is particularly admirable, but the idiotic bullshit that people pump out is beyond tedious.
Melania is already married. Place your obsession in check. Put your dick back and zip it up. Trump met his wife after she had already been in this country and working.
Her Agent sponsored her work VISA and permit and she did not work in the US without one.
Sep 14, 2016Paolo Zampolli, who worked as a modeling agent, says he first scouted Melania Trump in Europe and sponsored her work visa. "I'm 100[%] positive that she never worked here illegally.
Thanks, PZ. Who cares. If she was a D and worked here illegally she would be lecturing us at the next Dem presidential political convention with her inspiring story. Or being invited to sit next to Jill at the next SOFU. Jesus. When can we move on from TDS?
«there's more merit to the notion that he's actually not very rich than you do. For one thing, he has a lot of creditors and the extent of them isn't fully known, nor is it totally understood how leveraged his properties are or whether he's inflating the values of certain assets.»
The real estate business is very different from normal businesses (in many respects it is a supercharged version of "private equity"), it is all about leverage, loopholes, bankruptcies, weird accounting, carry forward tax losses, all totally legal because the loopholes have been purchased. If you don't know how it works you can't just handwave. Nothing new, for an example here is a quote from A deTocqueville, "Democracy in America", 1834:
“Consequently, in the United States the law favors those classes that elsewhere are most interested in evading it. [...] In America there is no law against fraudulent bankruptcies, not because they are few, but because they are many. The dread of being prosecuted as a bankrupt is greater in the minds of the majority than the fear of being ruined by the bankruptcy of others; and a sort of guilty tolerance is extended by the public conscience to an offense which everyone condemns in his individual capacity.”
Mar 14, 2017The official added that Trump “paid $38m even after taking into account large-scale depreciation for construction, on an income of more than $150m, as well as paying tens of millions of dollars in other taxes such as sales and excise taxes and employment taxes, and this illegally published return proves just that”.
«did he try his damnedest to keep them away from the public eye»
Obviously because he did not pay any tax despite being very wealthy and having a huge real income. Most likely he and the other real estate moghuls did not want publicity for the enormous loopholes that he (and them) purchased over the decades from Congress. Only the little people pay taxes...
But that is a completely different issue from how wealthy and successful in business he has been. His hiding the tax return was not because he is actually poor and needs to be bribed by russian politicians with a few hotel bills, like the roaring buffoons arguing about the "Emoluments Clause" were implying.
Which means he already knew how the game was played. He built in NYC, one would have to be an expert in precisely the corruption the article describes. In fact, that may have been his secret sauce and why the establishment feared him.
This is hilarious. Confirmation that Hunter Thompson was right. A decent chunk of the US liked Nixon for being a clever crook. An even larger group likes Trump for the same.
I think Thompson was right about quite a few things. Ever heard of Brad Marchand? Hockey player for Boston. He's a total dick but holy mackinaw can that guy play hockey. Dirty, mean, vicious Hockey. The fans love him. He wins a lot too.
The comments today are bananas!! BlueRocket, a game of hockey may be a decent metaphor for US politics and economy. If I shout loud enough, buy expensive seats, and enough hot dogs maybe the fucking players will score some goals. Maybe the facilities staff will look into why the ice is melting too.
They didn't fear him very much they just couldn't do much to him because they're all complicit in war crimes and massive fraud. What reforms did Trump make ?
Yeah I missed your point. You’re saying if Trump made a big deal of it -Joe’s wealth -it would have blown up in his face because his tax return would show all kinds of unflattering stuff. You are right.
Your point was not "Joe's wealth", but how he got it. He was a "public servant" (God, that makes me puke) for 44 years. being a government employee does not enable wealth. THAT is the point that Trump could have focused on, the abuse of the people's trust. The Orange man got whatever he has in the world of business - whether honest or not, not from the people.
«The Orange man got whatever he has in the world of business - whether honest or not, not from the people.»
He still got most of his wealth from the people, through the "free markets", it is the people who ultimately pay the price of higher real estate rents and prices that make developers rich. Just like as Kucinich's book described, making money through jacked up utility prices etc. is paid for by the people.
Both the "free markets" and the state can be vehicles for extractive enrichment, and as to that the "free markets" enable far more extraction than the government.
Eh, it's not the same. There is an element of choice if someone purchases a Trump tie or visits a gaudy Trump casino that just isn't there with paying taxes. You don't have to live in Manhattan and pay for overpriced real estate. But I go to jail if I don't pay up every year on April 15th.
«There is an element of choice [...] You don't have to live in Manhattan and pay for overpriced real estate. But I go to jail if I don't pay up every year on April 15th.»
This is just the usual COMMUNIST propaganda that claims that the USA is a closed country and hundreds of thousands are killed by the jackbooted thugs of the IRS police every year as they try to flee. :-)
But in reality nobody has to live in the USA, and thousands of people every year TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY by shopping around for tax deals and move to places like Monaco, Dubai, Singapore, etc. where they get a better priced residence deal.
There are more than 7 billion people in the world who have chosen not to pay a cent of USA taxes.
Anyone who is intellectually honest will recognize that barrier to obtaining citizenship in a foreign country, adopting their culture, and learning their language and laws is *much *greater than moving across town or choosing not to buy a trump tie.
On top of that, the US unlike most countries will still tax you unless you renounce your citizenship. And then depending on your new country, obtaining a visa to visit friends/family can be difficult.
«barrier to obtaining citizenship in a foreign country, adopting their culture, and learning their language and laws»
These and all other matters are just the "responsibility" part of "TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY". Whiners always find excuses of the "oh no it is hard work" type for not taking personal responsibility, yet there are 40 million migrants in the USA today, and 90% of the population of Dubai is migrants, all people who shopped around for the best deal, and took personal responsibility.
All those people prove abundantly that there is "an element of choice" as to paying USA taxes, even if exercising that choice may require some more effort than whining:
Ha! No they don't... Real estate - how many people were arrested because of NINJA loans? Casinos - regulated by the NGC. Crookedness inherent - are you saying "people" are ok with this? People did like Nixon too, but people also fired him.
Perhaps if tax burdens were equitably distributed among all U.S. citizens, the tax code made fair once again, these sorts of talk show gotchas, this never ending fixation on the peculiarly acquired wealth of a small but not insubstantial subset of parasitic citizenry, we could move on to, say, solving other problems...
During one of the debates Trump asked Biden how he came to own three very expensive homes. Trump made a sarcastic face and said something like “it makes no sense”, but then he let it go. I think he could’ve won the election with that issue alone. That is the populace tact that could win - Dem or GOP. Nancy how did you become rich? Hammer on that. Mitch can’t help but notice you’re a millionnaire. What are the politicians tax returns say, how much did they earn and does that equate to 3 homes.
And their wealth is just the grease on the rails that moved the big money. Trump was already rich and was immune to the trap. It was fun to watch a incorruptable patroit swinging like Iron Mike against the tide of slime. Hope he gets in the ring again, but he's earned a retirememt imo.
Trump came from a family fortune based on being a slumlord, not paying your bills and solving problems by suing people. He is not a patriot, he is a grifter.
Trump was immune to the trap ? Ha ! That's fucking hilarious !
Holy shit. I needed a laugh today. I agree that Trump may have at some point bitten off a human ear like Mike Tyson.
Love Iron Mike. He too could fight
I'm a fan of Mike Tyson. Especially because of who he is now.
Tyson is a bright and insightful man when he is sober. I’m definitely a fan of his, in and out of the ring.
He could at least be a House Representative...
Dude you just called Trump incorruptible. Matt’s audience is not gonna like that.
Slowly, very slowly, I feel like there is a convergence between left and right developing in Matt's comments page, on at least some key issues. It's one of the main reasons I'm here. Not everyone is feeling the love, but some perceptible and gratifying connections are being made.
That said, someone will be here shortly to complain about something like Trump charging the Secret Service for staying in his hotels when they accompanied him and point to this as evidence of corruption. (They will not know, or will ignore, that Biden charges the Secret Service to stay at his guest house, and of course they are not displacing other paying guests, as they would be at the Trump hotels.)
But here's an undeniable fact: Public service has made Trump poorer, but it has made the Bidens, Obamas, and Clintons much, much richer.
Good, and true point
Could a politician on either side ride this line of thinking - lambasting all Pols - to the White House? Glenn Greenwald as campaign chair.
I feel like if a politician did that, they would probably be universally despised by all the establishment figures in DC and the press. In my more paranoid moments, I can even imagine them being framed by the intelligence agencies, to destroy any chance of having a successful Presidency.
Oh, that could never happen! Not even if the candidate were a faux populist blowhard who tweeted like a 12-year-old edgelord.
Sublime summation my man!
There's too much money to be made.
That's the reason this dead horse keeps getting beaten. If you don't want politicians to get rich, I don't know what to tell you. Even the people running the Soviet Union got rich, at least comparatively.
Stop donating money to their campaigns for starters.
How can you avoid that when the Committee for Doing Good Things and the National Sweetness and Love Council take your well-meaning fiduciary virtue signals, and DONATE THEM TO POLITICIANS' campaigns? When Amazon/Alphabet/Apple/Netflix/M$, etc can all find ways to direct funds to them? When the old-school corps of Big Pharma, Big Ag, the MIC, etc., can all do the same?
I mean, it's the correct action, but won't solve anything.
«Even the people running the Soviet Union got rich, at least comparatively.»
That "comparatively" is a wild exaggeration, for example, here someone who was Minister for Science and Energy in the 1960 in the UK describes an official visit to the UK, from his diary, 1963-06-14:
“In the evening we went to dinner with Kirillin and his wife and daughter, Ola, at their flat, along with the Ambassador, and Gvishiani, Academician Artsemivitsch and Academician Keldersh. Madame Santalova was the interpreter. I had been told by the Ambassador that Russian Ministers never invite British Ministers to their flats or homes and he was absolutely amazed when this invitation came in but it was, of course, because I had asked Kirillin to my home in London. It was lovely. We sat and talked in a tiny little flat where he and his wife and child live. Kirillin is one of the Vice-Premiers of the Soviet Union and an eminent scientist. We sat in his little library while the meal was being laid and we ate together, then he showed us home movies of his trip to England and having snowballs thrown at him by the children.”
And he was an Academician, a category that still today in Russia enjoys the greatest prestige (in a poll more people said that their dream was to be an academician than an oligarch).
That's pretty much what Trump did. He just became what he lambasted along the way.
Wow you read Matt's mind on his June 3 essay!
Please list the first 7 numbers between 1 an 53 that come to mind. 😃
Skeptic says: "...That said, someone will be here shortly to complain about something like Trump charging the Secret Service for staying in his hotels when they accompanied him and point to this as evidence of corruption. (They will not know, or will ignore, that Biden charges the Secret Service to stay at his guest house, and of course they are not displacing other paying guests, as they would be at the Trump hotels.)"
First off, the Secret Service does not "charge" or bill presidents for their work. The government, a.k.a. the taxpayers, pick up the tab.
And from BusinessInsider:
"Even when Trump's golf club in Bedminster, N.J. was closed up earlier in the coronavirus pandemic, the documents obtained in the lawsuit show the Secret Service still got hit with a $21,800 charge for a cottage rental and other room fees....The usual rate for agents to stay at a Trump property — even when there's no indication he will stop by — is $567 per night, according to the Post....That's a far cry from the mere "50 bucks" per room Eric Trump claimed the taxpayers dish out when defending the practice back in October 2016."
Perhaps it's an accounting error with the travel ledgers. Junior miscatalogued the $50 bucks for, you know, maybe a discount hooker down on her luck---something like that, but for goodness sake who knows with those boys....
https://www.businessinsider.com/secret-service-billed-1-million-trump-properties-rooms-wapo-2020-9
And Skeptic, don't think of this as a "complaint," merely a friendly reprimand....
Hey Skeptic,
Why doncha introduce yourself to Google and basic internet research, and layoff the sloppy propaganda---or stick to UFO and crypto sites.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/08/trump-secret-service-detail-children-post-white-house
Donald Trump’s adult children reportedly cost taxpayers $140,000 in Secret Service security in the month after the clan’s patriarch left the White House in January.
Ordinarily, family members of a president lose their security detail when they leave office. But in the case of the four Trump siblings and two of their spouses, the former president issued a directive to extend post-presidency protections by six months.
The costs, obtained by the watchdog group Citizens for Ethics, do not include security protections at Trump properties in New Jersey, Palm Beach and Briarcliff, New York. With those factored in, the total would likely be far higher, according to the group.
According to the watchdog, records reveal that the Trump children maintained a “breakneck speed of travel, and racked up significant hotel and transportation bills for the Secret Service”.
Transport costs alone amounted to $52,296.75, and hotel costs totaled at least $88,678.39.The watchdog found that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump went from their jobs at the White House to a 10-day vacation in Utah, racking up hotel costs of $62,599. After a month in Miami, they stayed at Trump’s Bedminster golf property for three days in late February.
Eric and Lara Trump spent much of February at Trump’s Briarcliff property, interspersed with trips to New York, Miami and Palm Beach, at a cost of $12,742.
Donald Trump Jr also spent time in New York City, on Long Island, and in upstate New York, racking up bills of $13,337.
But Citizens for Ethics said the Secret Service did not provide records of spending at Trump businesses.
“While it may be tempting to put the story of the Trump family’s profiteering in the past, we cannot until they have actually stopped directing taxpayer money into their own bank accounts,” the group said.
Ah, the Trumps: the family that drifts together....grifts together.
Yep. Secret Service costs. You've made an ironclad case for corruption.
I'm sure you also have them tabulated to the penny for the Obamas and Clintons for comparison.
By the way, people on the right used to do this exact same thing for Obama's Secret Service costs for trips to Hawaii, a big trip to France for Michelle and the daughters, etc. etc. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.
Why would Trump people even think they need Secret Service Protection? Just paranoid, right? Quoting Maxine Waters: "“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere. We’ve got to get the children connected to their parents.”
Yes. Why would they even think they needed protection? After all, none less that Maxine Waters threatened them, and called for the general population to do the same? Why might they feel threatened? Must be paranoia?
Interesting. Out of the blocks with the gratuitous assumption that I'm defending the Obamas. Was I defending the Obamas? I don't believe I was defending the Obamas. But I must say it was a rather clumsy pivot away from the issue at hand, which is, quite simply, your categorical irresponsible posting (and intellectual laziness), and propensity for churning out third-rate propaganda in lieu of fact stating. But you get a gold star for chivalry, even if it is second-hand chivalry, for advocating for continued secret service protection for the "kids" from the intrepid Maxine Waters. Personally, I myself would feel a lot more comfortable with the 101st Airborne between me and "Mad Max." And Skeptic, if it's any consolation to you, the last person to call me a democrat got punched in the face....
Well, I can personally attest to the expenses of U.S. taxpayer contributions to Mr. Dick Cheney's dry cleaning bills? I happened to live in the area of Jackson WY during Mr. Cheney's reign. It wasn't entirely without notice.
Dick seemed to have a proclivity for disrupting the lives of his neighbors to the extent we'd avoid even being in the same area as he was, which was difficult in a place that only had 10,000 people in it to start with? On the upside, it was pretty easy to notice his presence by looking for black towncars in the parking lot.
There's no solution to this problem I can see?
Weak tea my man. Super weak. You reference a Newsweek (!) article written 5 months after Trump was inaugurated, a low effort hit piece. And an inscrutable unreferenced chart of nothing.
Compare that to "plus 10 mil for the big guy" https://youtu.be/LcpJu_MJrjc
Or the rank corruption of Biden withholding aid to Ukraine to remove a prosecutor who stood in the way of Hunter's installation on the board of Burisma. https://youtu.be/rtO1OigwfVs
Turn off CNN and do some research. You will find many more examples, but only if you want to learn the truth. Biden family is pure graft, and part and parcel of the Deep State for decades. FBI has Hunters' laptop for like 2 years now, yet no prosecution at all, in spite of reported lurid interactions with minor relatives. Anyone in possession of Hunters' laptop possesses child pornography. Pretty good disincentive for getting involved there, especially in the current milieu of selective enforcement.
Or debauchery with chinese hookers is 100% A-OK for a Presidents son? https://gtv.org/video/id=5f977cf9384a485bd9603541
Or how he was never prosecuted for falsifying a firearm application, a felony. Discharged from armed services for drugs, but a couple years later no history of drug use on his firearm application... works if your name is Biden.
https://nypost.com/2021/03/29/hunter-biden-should-be-charged-for-lying-on-gun-application/
Inescapable conclusion is the Bidens are favored members of the Deep State, and the IC and MSM wings are doing their best to protect them. OTOH Trump is sworn enemy to IC and MSM because he is outside their control. He already had money, and he loves America.
To those of us who paid attention for the last 5 years this is obvious. To those who devoured the fear porn of CNN for the last 5 years, might as well be written in Linear A.
Wrong. Trump lost money. Never took a salary.
DJT is supposedly a billionaire and your barometer of whether he gained or lost wealth over 4 years is whether or not he took a 400k salary...?
There were countless business deals going on over in ISISrael through the son in law and other family members.
Plus everyone knows all the money and perks get back loaded and don't appear till after they leave office.
Skutch, we have differences of opinion. This isn't one of them?
Madjack's "never took a salary" explanation for Trump's financial martyrdom as president is all too typical of most of the posts that fill the comments section of Taibbi's substack---to date. Quality of thought and reasoned argument very poor and makes for an overall disappointing experience here at TK News. Anybody else around here find comments and threads less than edifying?
I've never really seen a comment section that wasn't at least half if not more just people venting their frustration with the shadows on the wall of the cave not doing what they want them to.
It's also very difficult in a time where reality is a commodity and facts are like finding a turtle with a mustache.
It's turtles all the way down Skutch?
"Frustration with shadows on the wall of the cave".
That exposes insight into the workings of that mind. I salute you.
No but I thought it admirable that he donated it. If Biden did that, or any D we’d hear about it non stop
What does a salary have to do with not making money ?? Holy cow man think !
I agree. But the media spent four years being shocked, shocked at supposedly unprecedented outrages from Trump, while ignoring similar behavior from Democrats. It got old, and it drove some credulous people into hysteria.
Yeah...The Dems all took his campaign donations when he was a democrat. He was just as much of misogynistic pagan back then but the Clintons loved him. Pelosi took his dough and I'm sure Chucky S did as well.
No, Fox news was gushing about him the whole time. 5 years ago, Fox was shocked about everything Obama did, while the liberal side gushed. Both sides have their own propaganda and they both tell everyone else that they are the real enemies of America.
I thought the rise of Sanders and Trump in 2016 would stick a fork in both parties but it only seemed to solidify the sclerotic in both
Yeah. I don't subscribe to voting for the lessor of two evil thing, binary choice or everyone telling me I'm throwing away my vote. I still vote even it means a write in. I say lets just stop voting for shitty politicians.
If there was no CCP Virus, we would be rocking now. We were on a roll 2017-2019.
Say we find China created COVID. Would the next question be on purpose. And we all know Fauci financed part of the study. There are a lot of implications there.
What I can't understand is why the Democrats wanted to blame the US for COVID????
They blame the US for everything. They don’t like America
This is not love of AMERICA. They want a One World Government run by the elites:
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years… (censorship)…It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination (VOTING) practiced in past centuries.
”David Rockefeller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJDFYNkWr8I
" The present pandemic is a “golden opportunity” for radical change. And if Al Gore, Prince Charles, the elites, and the rest of the World Economic Forum can convince enough people that attempting to stop climate change is also worth dramatically pushing humanity toward greater government control, then radical – and catastrophic – change is exactly what we’re going to get."
https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/504499-introducing-the-great-reset-world-leaders-radical-plan-to Biden's New World Order.
Wow you're really tribal devotee aren't you ? Only you love America and anyone that scares is hates it, is that about the sum of it ?
That is the epitome of communism, run by only "Elites" with a one world government is Totalitarianism. Good Luck!
<<I do not fear a "world government" in the least.>>
It made for good music in the '90s though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMJjELAJKAw
«Dude you just called Trump incorruptible»
The gullibles don't realize that in the USA (and in the world) it is real estate mobsters who bribe or blackmail politicians, not vice-versa. Trump probably could have been convicted many times over of bribery, but that issue was never brought up because the vast majority of the politicians he bribed must have been from the Democratic party (in NYC and NJ, likely to get building permits and other favourable decisions).
His attitude to Republicans instead was different: he was one of their biggest campaign donors ever (probably to get even more favourable tax rules for real estate).
The correct term is "pre-corrupted"
"Incorruptible" is going too far. But he did have a certain degree of immunity that occasionally produced interesting remarks. Roughly along these lines was my favorite, his declaration that he loved the "poorly educated." It was really kind of brilliant.
Not a bad way to go...
Totally agree. We should be going after pols on both sides on this issue. It’s disgusting
RJF, Trump didn't want to explain how he got so "rich". Especially when his tax information was almost released. That would have been a disaster for him.
That is just one of the many baseless smears about Trump.
He is very rich, if only because he inherited a lot of NYC real estate decades ago, and NYC has ballooned in price over the decades.
Also the tax return is pointless, we all know that thanks to various loopholes he did not pay tax, but he has give a far more useful document. A previous commenter has summyrized well:
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/which-is-the-real-working-class-party/comments#comment-707998
“Tax returns tell you nothing of substance. Check out Biden's from 2017, for example. [...] The real picture - the best view - is in the required financial disclosures. Then you see assets and other income sources not available in a return. Trump's are available too. He IS fabulously wealthy and has impressive assets. The point is, tax returns are a distraction - they are in no way a meaningful look at someone's finances. This is especially true when multiple corporations and corporations within corporations complicate the view.”
You aren't curious about a wealthy persons finances and how they became so wealthy? It's amazing how many people applaud the rich for being crooked.
Maybe he isn't as rich as he wanted people to think he was. If, as this article proposes, the US is a plutocracy. Then, Trump has to maintain his Master of the Universe illusion.
Why do you applaud this? Let's say you're right. Then a blatant liar was elected as US President. This is like like chat-russian-roulette.
applaud? No Sir I do not. He wasn't the first blatant liar President, nor the last. He did however, mostly by accident, I think, reveal what's actually behind the curtain
I'm still unsure how deliberate that was but you are correct.
Which is what?
America is a plutocracy and what putzes on subbstack think is irrelevant to what actually happens.
Agreed. What we all think is irrelevant.
Not irrelevant. But also not immediately important?
A person running for national office is inherently unknown. Who could really expect the entire US popularion to sit down and carefully examine any Presidential candidate? Honestly?
Not only won't it happen, it can't. The electoral system no longer enables representative voting and it verty certainly doesn't enable presidential voting. Our obligation is to fix a system designed for 13 states and somewhere around 100,000 people, to a country of almost 4M and 50 states. Is it any surprise a 200+ year old system is leaking a bit?
Our system of election was designed well before the telegraph was invented. It was set up to allow delegates to travel by horseback from state to state until they arrived at Washington DC and cast their vote, expressing the will of the people. That's what it did, and it did it well for over 100 years.
I wouldn't personally have difficulty with the peaceful breakup (Balkanization) of the United States. It may well be our best course of action.
Times have changed. Now we have electronic communications, and as much as I hate to mention it, the ability to create a true democracy. I'm not an advocate of direct democracy; I feel it's prone to the failures of mob rule and I'll cite France as an example; mob rule doesn't work well, though it does work in a sort of stumbling "we'll get there eventually" way?
But democracy does eventually work, and we could make it work in the future, but we need to take steps now or we risk losing this great experiment. As a conservative it's very difficult for me to put this question on the table, but it will end up there regardless.
We all need to figure this out and we need to do it very soon. Where is Thomas Jefferson when we need him?
We knew more about what he was doing just by reading his tweets 3AM. Biden is underhanded as Obama.
The NYT, WA PO, lied more than Trump. You'll find out he sold you down the river after he leaves, like Obama.
Why do you keep trying to change the subject ?
I didn't change the subject. I embellished what BlueRocket said. "what's actually behind the curtain". So mind your own business. No one want's to hear your dribble.
We have to listen to yours.
Sleep is very important. No one should read tweets at 3:00am.
I'd have to refine that to "no one should write tweets at 3:00am", but for the honest truth I've never written a tweet in my entire life?
Peoples finances should be a personal matter if they're not breaking the law. Why are you only concerned with this one set of citizens?
If they're a personal matter you'd never know if they were breaking the law now would you ?
Wouldn't know if they were breaking the law? Hahahahahahaha -- laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes. A guy who owed how much in unpaid taxes, Tim Geitner, who was head of the NY Fed leading up to 2008 financial disaster, was confirmed as Obama's Treasury Secretary. Sharpton, who may still (allegedly) owe thousands to NY and/or other taxing bodies, was Obama's racial affairs guru and frequent White House guest --- a role model for us all. So funny.
I keep forgetting corruption is only bad when the dems do it and fine and dandy when your team does it is all..... : )
Sorry I forget that you're caught up in magical thinking and have the memory capacity of a gnat on crack.
Maybe you should look at who else turbo Timmy worked for ?
Or do you even care when in reality you just want to cheer for your team...... Because in your magical world, only the other team is bad and corrupt, right ??
Dems are too busy making up conspiracies and investigating them to govern anything!
I did, however, just notice our host has made the effort to tag Skutch as a "Useful Idiot", though I'm still unclear on the nature of its usefulness? Perhaps entertainment value?
I have my doubts concerning the political proclivities of our mutual aquaintence Skutch? I'm not at all convinced ol' Skutch is a registered Democrat or Republican? I don't think trolls can register in any state other than the state of confusion...
Thanks, I needed that. Here's one for you
He should go play with his NewMaxer Powerful Rotation Male Electric Automatic Multi-Function Silicone machine.
https://www.amazon.com/NewMaxer-Automatic-Multi-Function-Masturbator-Masturbation/dp/B00S8AWSZ4
It chears me you actually have to pay our host for the privilege of posting meaningless drivel in his comments section. Sort of a stupidity tax I suppose...
You make it sound as if someone else is paying for your posts. Did you get mommies CC out just so you could hurl an ad hominen at me ??
Nope. I'm rich :)
And I didn't actually hurl it. It was more of a toss...
Unfortunately, my mommie is long since dead. She was a wonderful woman and my father predeceased her by 35 years. Plutonium poisoning. Responsible for the Polaris, Posidon and Trident fleet ballistic missile systems. May they rest in peace through superior firepower.
It's pretty much safe to say that we all expect you to like your own posts, so why is it you keep doing it? OK. You like your own posts. Put that thing back in your shorts and let it heal?
He makes things up and posts them so many times that he believes them. Never qualifies what he says.
It's safer to say you use daddies money to hire people to like your posts as well as to bugger little children and small animals. It would be a surprise if you still had anything left to heal.
Great! Informative! To the point! Thank you so much!
I don't really take advantage of children or small animals. Just want to go on record with that.
Where did you come up with the idea? What experience do you have with abusing children and small animals that you might conclude I had such intentions?
I'm terribly sorry you may have thought that. I can't place where, in my conversation with you so far, you might have reached it?
My daddie did what he had to do, nothing more, certainly never less. He literally lived and subsequently died by the sword. I both honor and respect him.
I think the IRS would be the first to catch them. If there is no outstanding evidence, you're just fishing which is what the democrats do with their many Conspiracy Investigations.
You mean the IRS that the republicans underfunded on purpose so their donors could steal and exploit more ??
That IRS ??
The Democrats had ALL the big donors and owe out the ass.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-election-trump-biden-donors/
Trump got most of the workers and smaller donations.
You seem obsessed with people that are successful. Not sure why you and so many others have so much contempt for this one group of citizens.
You seem to simple minded to understand I'm obsessed with people who are corrupt.
Why do you hate morality so much ? How come you condone illegality ?
I don't. If someone is breaking the law there are consequences. Even when I believe the law is immoral it must be upheld. It is the one thing that holds us together. The rule of law. You and others want to define morality for all of us. It is driven by altruism that too fight to control. I truly believe your heart is the right place but your attempt to impose your understanding on me or others is perplexing. I believe excessive taxation is immoral. It is coercion. Corruption is not confined to those that are wealthy but someone has convinced you it is. Do you hold those on the lower end of the wealth spectrum to the same standard?
"I don't. If someone is breaking the law there are consequences."
Really now, so how come only those breaking the law on one team deserve your scorn ? How come people buying their way out of their consequences escapes your scrutiny ?
"You and others want to define morality for all of us."
So we just won't define morality and allow everyone to decide for themselves what it is ?
Who fills you full of this bullshit ?
You actually believe the rule of law is being upheld ?
Funny how you want to impose your ideas on everyone else about what excessive taxation is while excluding anyone that disagrees with you about morality from taking part in deciding what it should consist of don't you think ?
When did I say corruption was exclusively a problem with the wealthy exactly ??
Do you actually believe that the wealthy setting an example of being corrupt has no effect on everyone else ??
Your problem is thinking even immoral law should be upheld out of some weird dogma brought about by tradition.
Slavery used to be the law until it was changed.
Now I would hope you'd view ending slavery as a positive thing. I shutter to think of what you're willing to abide by or believe in after a statement like that.
You're making it very easy for any new cult of personality to bring about more atrocities like we had leading up to WW2.
Your just being silly. Laws applied relative to the conversation as it applies to taxation and current laws considered that you or I may differ on but are not so far out on the extremes of insanity. I know you know that. Your bringing slavery into the conversation is predictable because you just can't help yourself. If current law states that anyone including the narcistic pagan that was our previous president broke it, then he should/must accept the consequences. My thoughts about taxation are irrelevant in that context however I still believe (while not perfect) that when I or others believe the law is flawed and works against individual rights we can and must do what we can. Not perfect but the institutions are still holding. Here in West pandemic overreach restrictions have been successfully challenged in court. I see how the fruits of my labor are taken and given to others through coercion but I still pay what the law says I must and fight through what's available. (Voting against tax measures that are excessive etc.). Is there a time to take a bold steps against state actions that are so horrific, you bet. And on that my conscious is clear. To go from someone's contribution on this chain regarding tax policy to your pathetic suggestion that me or anyone else would have been complicit in slavery or events leading up to WW2 is tragic. I just can't take your contribution seriously but do hope you find peace in your life. Take Care!
You mean if you're apprehended in the US as an Illegal Alien, the penalty is deportation but that rarely happens. Why is that?
Please explain how you got the idea morality should only be defined by those who agree with you and how accusing me of doing this isn't hypocrisy.....
So you want to be the sole definer of what excessive taxation is as well as what morality is by way of playing victim ?
How is this helpful ?
"too simpleminded". It's "too" not "to".
Simple? Minded? "too simple minded"? There you have it!
Yep. I'll correct your spelling as long as you continue to use the word "asshole" to describe me or anyone else on this forum. Sound fair?
Ignore Skutch. Among other nonsense he wants to dig for fairies in the dust in other folks' homes. No need for probable cause: If you are rich, you are corrupt, therefore disclose your private papers.
Feel free to make shit up whenever necessary in order to lash out due to your mental conditions.
I've got big shoulders.........
And a little ….
How fittingly juvenile and intellectually appropriate.
BORDERLAND is a lobbyist.
Most are not crooked as they provide most of the jobs we have:
Statistics of U.S. Businesses (SUSB)
Search domain census.govhttps://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/susb.html
The 2017 Statistics of U.S. Businesses counted employment of 128.6M, of which 68.0M worked for enterprises 500+ in size and 60.5M for those under 500.
Horse shit. The economy is crooked so they have no choice but to be crooked. All the honest ones went out of business decades ago.
The facts are in your face. Fess up!
Once again, if you don't know how much Trump owes then you CANNOT speculate upon how wealthy he is.
He's on public record stating that he counts loans as assets. If I get to define the standards and definition of wealth, I too could be fabulously wealthy.
«did he try his damnedest to keep them away from the public eye»
Obviously because he did not pay any tax despite being very wealthy and having a huge real income. Most likely he and the other real estate moghuls did not want publicity for the enormous loopholes that he (and them) purchased over the decades from Congress. Only the little people pay taxes...
But that is a completely different issue from how wealthy and successful in business he has been. His hiding the tax return was not because he is actually poor and needs to be bribed by russian politicians with a few hotel bills, like the roaring buffoons arguing about the "Emoluments Clause" were implying.
He's on record stating he counts loan money as assets so please tell me how if no one can possibly know how rich he is you know he is very wealthy and has a huge income..........
Do you know how much he owes ??
I used to believe that too. Honestly. But as I aged, experienced more of the tax code and how it applied tome and others, I found the loopholes to be mostly nonexistent. There was a year back in the early 2000's I grossed over $3 million and I paid enough in taxes I felt snubbed because no one named a U.S. Aircraft carrier for me. :)
But generally I think you'll find a conspicous lack of loopholes, and I really mean that. It's almost the golden fleece of American Dreams, that after you achieve some level of income the tax code simply disappears; it stops being a problem. That isn't so, and there are many folks around to attest to it.
Now I find the code much more lenient. I don't make much money in my old age and my guess is I actually take in more government funding than I pay. In the past ten or so years I haven't paid any taxes at all?
«It's almost the golden fleece of American Dreams, that after you achieve some level of income the tax code simply disappears»
Personal income enjoys few loopholes, but there are large discounts for capital taxes, significant loopholes for corporate taxes, and the sky is the limit for offshore corporate tax loopholes. So the key techniques are to capitalize income, launder it through a corporate shell, and ideally an offshore corporate shell managed by nominees.
This is most convenient for the owners of businesses (Warren Buffet pointed out he paid a lower percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary), but even the CEOs and CFOs of many corporates are not "John Smith", the person, but "JS Management Services, postbox 666, Dubai City, UAE".
An example from a comment on an english newspaper from the owner of a London cleaning business:
«London is indeed full of oligarchs from the USA to Outer Mongolia, hell bent of out spending and out doing their neighbours, if they even bother to turn up. Running a small cleaning company in the magic areas over the last few years has been insane. The demand for our cleaning services is high and we are able to turn down the so called oligarchs who whine about price but never about the quality, of course it won’t last
Many of our payments are coming from North African based banks within the Spanish territories, Morocco, Algeria and most unusual Mali, who seems to issue a huge number of loaded debit cards for payment of services. In very recent years,many of the houses we clean, have been mortgaged to once again Mali based banks, although they have very familiar names, eg Santander.»
In fact, I've considered the tax code, as it applies to personal income, as I kind of glass ceiling for the middle class? A way to keep the vermin at bay?
The thought is that if you design the tax code to stop the hoi palloi, you won't have to fight them off in the trenches later?
Well. perhaps you're right then. I admit I haven't personally experienced that level of wealth.
And it is something I've thought about, that there might be a sort of quantum leap between the "sort of rich" and the seriously rich? I have no practical experience with that, nor do I consider a piddling $3M a year "rich" any longer.
«I have no practical experience with that, nor do I consider a piddling $3M a year "rich" any longer.»
I remember an example, these are the approximate numbers:
* Business has sales of $4-$5m per year.
* 2 co-CEOs pay themselves $80,000 per year, and pay personal income tax on that.
* Company accounts declare a yearly profit of $120,000 and it pays tax on that.
* Company accounts also show that the company pays $600,000 a year to an offshore (in a country with no corporate profits tax) entity for "administrative services".
That is a pretty standard arrangement, and a fairly well designed one. Sometimes the offshore company owns the building and charges rents, sometimes it owns the brand and charges royalties, etc. etc. etc.
I certainly appreciate your dilegence, but frankly don't understand how it fits in?
As I mentioned earlier, I have no experience with the tax code beyond being a humble victim of it?
Do you think wealthy people not paying taxes is a good thing?
87% of the taxes are paid by the top 20%.
Do you think we should import ONLY people who suck up more services than the contribute in revenue?
Wrong, 87% of the INCOME TAX is payed by the top 20 %. which are receiving 87% of the AGI.
So after all the loopholes they get to subtract from their income they only report getting almost 90% of the income.
If you want 90% of the income you should pay more taxes instead of corrupting the government and starting very expensive forever wars in order to start "developing' markets.....
I read WSJ too. I'm not sure you read more than the fucking headlines though. LOL IN YOUR ACTUAL FACE! That article was literally called "87% of taxes are paid by top 20%". Holy shit you made my day regurgitating that. Did you even read the article???? Here's the study guide for you... What minimum household income
qualifies as top 20%? Fucking trash bag.
Do you know how to read?
“For 2018, households in the top 20% will have income of about $150,000 or more and 52% of total income, about the same as in 2017. But they will pay about 87% of income taxes, up from about 84% last year.” Thanks to Trump.
You have a dirty mouth to match your limited brain!
So you believe billionaires should pay the same rate as poor folks ??
How long have you been a feudalist ?
I do. Not all but many create great value for all of us. They invest and build things that make all our lives better. Why should one segment of our citizenry be demonized and discriminated against because of their success.
Do you believe in the 14th Amendment?
Sure, if they're doing it legally. The real threat is government coercion.
So legalized corruption is fine with you ?
Absolutely, if they're doing it legally.
So, Borderland, would you support changing tax law to make it illegal: closing the loopholes that currently allow "legalized corruption" — tax breaks that effectively apply only to the rich and wealthy, loopholes they paid for in perks, bribes and campaign donations (including hidden donations via "independent" PACs)?
Trump tax returns: president had to pay millions due to ...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/14/donald-trump-tax-return-leaked-alternative-minimum
Mar 14, 2017The official added that Trump "paid $38m even after taking into account large-scale depreciation for construction, on an income of more than $150m, as well as paying tens of millions of dollars in...
He had to pay them in order to get his mail order bride into the country remember ?
Mail order bride? She came to the U.S. as a successful international model before she met him. I don't think Trump's personal life is particularly admirable, but the idiotic bullshit that people pump out is beyond tedious.
Melania is already married. Place your obsession in check. Put your dick back and zip it up. Trump met his wife after she had already been in this country and working.
Her Agent sponsored her work VISA and permit and she did not work in the US without one.
The complicated immigration history of Melania Trump https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-politics-melania-immigration-20160914-snap-story.html
Sep 14, 2016Paolo Zampolli, who worked as a modeling agent, says he first scouted Melania Trump in Europe and sponsored her work visa. "I'm 100[%] positive that she never worked here illegally.
Thanks, PZ. Who cares. If she was a D and worked here illegally she would be lecturing us at the next Dem presidential political convention with her inspiring story. Or being invited to sit next to Jill at the next SOFU. Jesus. When can we move on from TDS?
Because you're all such victims.... you should just leave if you hate America so much shouldn't you ?
Tell me about it. I always look up everything before I open my mouth. I can't believe people just gossip and think that's news like the Dossier.
«there's more merit to the notion that he's actually not very rich than you do. For one thing, he has a lot of creditors and the extent of them isn't fully known, nor is it totally understood how leveraged his properties are or whether he's inflating the values of certain assets.»
The real estate business is very different from normal businesses (in many respects it is a supercharged version of "private equity"), it is all about leverage, loopholes, bankruptcies, weird accounting, carry forward tax losses, all totally legal because the loopholes have been purchased. If you don't know how it works you can't just handwave. Nothing new, for an example here is a quote from A deTocqueville, "Democracy in America", 1834:
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/1_ch13.htm
“Consequently, in the United States the law favors those classes that elsewhere are most interested in evading it. [...] In America there is no law against fraudulent bankruptcies, not because they are few, but because they are many. The dread of being prosecuted as a bankrupt is greater in the minds of the majority than the fear of being ruined by the bankruptcy of others; and a sort of guilty tolerance is extended by the public conscience to an offense which everyone condemns in his individual capacity.”
Trump tax returns: president had to pay millions due to ...
Search domain theguardian.comhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/14/donald-trump-tax-return-leaked-alternative-minimum
Mar 14, 2017The official added that Trump “paid $38m even after taking into account large-scale depreciation for construction, on an income of more than $150m, as well as paying tens of millions of dollars in other taxes such as sales and excise taxes and employment taxes, and this illegally published return proves just that”.
«did he try his damnedest to keep them away from the public eye»
Obviously because he did not pay any tax despite being very wealthy and having a huge real income. Most likely he and the other real estate moghuls did not want publicity for the enormous loopholes that he (and them) purchased over the decades from Congress. Only the little people pay taxes...
But that is a completely different issue from how wealthy and successful in business he has been. His hiding the tax return was not because he is actually poor and needs to be bribed by russian politicians with a few hotel bills, like the roaring buffoons arguing about the "Emoluments Clause" were implying.
You still need to tell us how you know he's actually rich when you have no clue how much he owes.
Like the quip goes.
If you owe the bank $30,000 and can't pay, you have a problem.
If you owe the bank $30 million and can't pay, the bank has a problem.
Like the other quip goes, if you don't have any money you're not really rich.
Which means he already knew how the game was played. He built in NYC, one would have to be an expert in precisely the corruption the article describes. In fact, that may have been his secret sauce and why the establishment feared him.
This is hilarious. Confirmation that Hunter Thompson was right. A decent chunk of the US liked Nixon for being a clever crook. An even larger group likes Trump for the same.
I think Thompson was right about quite a few things. Ever heard of Brad Marchand? Hockey player for Boston. He's a total dick but holy mackinaw can that guy play hockey. Dirty, mean, vicious Hockey. The fans love him. He wins a lot too.
The comments today are bananas!! BlueRocket, a game of hockey may be a decent metaphor for US politics and economy. If I shout loud enough, buy expensive seats, and enough hot dogs maybe the fucking players will score some goals. Maybe the facilities staff will look into why the ice is melting too.
and I'll jump and shout when Marchand spears a guy in the neck. Especially if the Refs miss it. Yup, solid metaphor.
That's your choice. Go jump out on the ice too! That will really show your team that you support them.
Wednesday nights I go jump on the ice and play. C'mon down.
that's why you're grumpy.
They didn't fear him very much they just couldn't do much to him because they're all complicit in war crimes and massive fraud. What reforms did Trump make ?
I have accidentally outed myself as a Trump supporter
Whatever. You can be anything you want. I was just explaining why that strategy for Trump would have been a disaster.
Yeah I missed your point. You’re saying if Trump made a big deal of it -Joe’s wealth -it would have blown up in his face because his tax return would show all kinds of unflattering stuff. You are right.
Your point was not "Joe's wealth", but how he got it. He was a "public servant" (God, that makes me puke) for 44 years. being a government employee does not enable wealth. THAT is the point that Trump could have focused on, the abuse of the people's trust. The Orange man got whatever he has in the world of business - whether honest or not, not from the people.
«The Orange man got whatever he has in the world of business - whether honest or not, not from the people.»
He still got most of his wealth from the people, through the "free markets", it is the people who ultimately pay the price of higher real estate rents and prices that make developers rich. Just like as Kucinich's book described, making money through jacked up utility prices etc. is paid for by the people.
Both the "free markets" and the state can be vehicles for extractive enrichment, and as to that the "free markets" enable far more extraction than the government.
Eh, it's not the same. There is an element of choice if someone purchases a Trump tie or visits a gaudy Trump casino that just isn't there with paying taxes. You don't have to live in Manhattan and pay for overpriced real estate. But I go to jail if I don't pay up every year on April 15th.
«There is an element of choice [...] You don't have to live in Manhattan and pay for overpriced real estate. But I go to jail if I don't pay up every year on April 15th.»
This is just the usual COMMUNIST propaganda that claims that the USA is a closed country and hundreds of thousands are killed by the jackbooted thugs of the IRS police every year as they try to flee. :-)
But in reality nobody has to live in the USA, and thousands of people every year TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY by shopping around for tax deals and move to places like Monaco, Dubai, Singapore, etc. where they get a better priced residence deal.
There are more than 7 billion people in the world who have chosen not to pay a cent of USA taxes.
Anyone who is intellectually honest will recognize that barrier to obtaining citizenship in a foreign country, adopting their culture, and learning their language and laws is *much *greater than moving across town or choosing not to buy a trump tie.
On top of that, the US unlike most countries will still tax you unless you renounce your citizenship. And then depending on your new country, obtaining a visa to visit friends/family can be difficult.
«barrier to obtaining citizenship in a foreign country, adopting their culture, and learning their language and laws»
These and all other matters are just the "responsibility" part of "TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY". Whiners always find excuses of the "oh no it is hard work" type for not taking personal responsibility, yet there are 40 million migrants in the USA today, and 90% of the population of Dubai is migrants, all people who shopped around for the best deal, and took personal responsibility.
All those people prove abundantly that there is "an element of choice" as to paying USA taxes, even if exercising that choice may require some more effort than whining:
https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljxxu8wNn61qc17jm.jpg
Also, sometimes i'm pretty slow to detect sarcasm. :)
Well said
Wait...were you being sarcastic in your OG post? If so, mastermind.
I was not being sarcastic. Too bad i’ve never been called a mastermind before
Yeah, rescinded...
What did you mean by OG post?
Original post.
Nice bio. 4,000 employees is a lot. I hope you pay them well.
It’s a security guard company so we are price takers, but insofar as I am able I pay well. I was sincere when i said i liked Trump.
No it wouldn’t-people understand A-how real estate developers and casino owners make $$, and B-the crookedness inherent in those endeavors.
Ha! No they don't... Real estate - how many people were arrested because of NINJA loans? Casinos - regulated by the NGC. Crookedness inherent - are you saying "people" are ok with this? People did like Nixon too, but people also fired him.
Absolutely.
Perhaps if tax burdens were equitably distributed among all U.S. citizens, the tax code made fair once again, these sorts of talk show gotchas, this never ending fixation on the peculiarly acquired wealth of a small but not insubstantial subset of parasitic citizenry, we could move on to, say, solving other problems...