I suppose you're referring to political views, especially leftist, as religion, especially obvious among climate cultists. I've never heard of anyone who was conservative becoming leftist. It seems to go the other way as people mature.
I suppose you're referring to political views, especially leftist, as religion, especially obvious among climate cultists. I've never heard of anyone who was conservative becoming leftist. It seems to go the other way as people mature.
Hmm, interesting point; how can we know for sure? As a Democrat who had a Libertarian epiphany two years ago due to COVID cultists, all the friends I've lost were leftists, and they wasted no time in throwing logic [as well as years of consistent friendship] under the bus due to their perception of ideological differences. I say perception because I was scarcely able to articulate my thought process in the avalanche of being told exactly how I think by people who once saw a Libertarian say something dumb on TV. Since I live in California, my few Republican friends have always been polite centrists, so I experienced no hostility from that camp. But I imagine if I lived in Arizona, I might have opposite views based on political demographics. So I'm wondering if what you say about people migrating from left to right is universal, or just what we perceive? Or is it more that we are experiencing an era in which the left has seized the reins of power, and are now the advocates of autocracy? Because for most of my life, that has described the right wing. Funny how things change over time...
I wasn't raised an observant Christian, but saluted the flag, learned the Lord's prayer, and rehearsed the pledge of allegiance in class. Aside from periodic visits to the front door from polite teenage Jehova's Witnesses, there was almost zero coercion. By comparison, I find the cultural shift toward government/corporation as God, absolutely terrifying.
I don't like this trend either, but perhaps it's not absolutely terrifying in a historical context. For most of human history, until very recently in fact, one's most significant concern was alienating one's community. In many parts of the world, it still is. For most people in most of history, their neighbors could isolate them, or in many cases do them physical harm, if people expressed religious or political views that were out of step with community norms. I'm old enough to remember people being assaulted for being flamboyantly gay, or black, in areas that frowned on such things. That used to be a much more immediate threat than an overbearing government or corporate crimes. Fortunately it no longer is, for most of us.
People are Left as long as they need subsidy. Take the Hispanic population. They came here with nothing. A lot needed subsidy to get on their feet. Now they are making money, working hard, paying taxes and proud of it. 2/3 of the federal tax payers get more back than the paid and less than 1/2 the adult population is working.
Progressives need to keep them dependent or minorities will no longer need them as a party. The Hispanics see millions of people parading into the country competing for their jobs and wages.
Sep 12, 2017The Census Bureau reported on Tuesday that the median household income was $59,000 in 2016,
In 2019, the average household income was as high as $69,560 and would have likely kept growing if not for the COVID-19 Pandemic. The median US income in 2020 was $67,521, UP $9,904 in 4 years.
Wage is contingent on Supply/Demand. Biden Median household income FALLS to $67,463 in 2021 year and will continue to fall through the millions more border trespassers competing for jobs.
Hispanics are moving Republican as a block and I would say as immigrants in general start making money and higher wages, they see unauthorized invasion as a threat to themselves, personally. The more intelligent minorities also don't appreciate the Left removing pre requisites from education to jobs because they truly believe they do not have the ability to learn. That is an insult.
I could be wrong. We will find out in November, unless Face Book breaks out their PERSONAL BALLOT BOXES again.
All agreed, except I don't think the Biden administration is actually immigrant friendly in any way. They pretend to be, just as they pretend that all their novel taxation schemes are intended to get money from billionaires (which is why they lamely proposed last year that the IRS should have full access to anyone's bank account that received more than $600 in deposits per year). To give you an idea of how "open borders" we are these days, we've accepted maybe a dozen Ukrainian refugees, after all the bellyaching about the moral calamity, and how Putin must be overthrown. Already forgotten are the thousands of Afghan refugees who worked with the US military against the Taliban, whom we promised asylum and then left them hanging like we always do. Anyway, I do agree that the "relaxed" state college admissions standards seem like the typical liberal condescension, and that it's weird to think legal immigrants are expected to support the rights of illegal immigrants. But for all the reformist rhetoric of this administration, they are adhering to the old playbook, as Trump did, and Obama did before him. It seems to me there are only two goals: scare working class republicans about crime and immigrants, and fool working class democrats into voting more tax burdens upon themselves.
Thank You. Democrats bill themselves being for the minorities and against the Republican BOOGIEMAN. Biden got more corporate sponsorship than Trump.
Trump got the little people like the Marines Army, Postal Service, UPS
Trump generally fared better with manual laborers, with 84% of donors who reported being ranchers and 75% of construction workers giving to him.
Biden got FB, AMAZON, Google, Apple, Microsoft, JP Morgan, U of California, Wels Fargo,
Biden - Forced Diversity, WOKE colleges and Universities. Dr.s and Physicians thanking him for keeping their incomes HIGH!
Trump became the enemy of the Globalists when he touted "America First". That does not fit in with the New World Order that Biden is trying to institute where all countries have Equal everything to the US. That means all the US workers will have to foot the bill for the rest of the world to have equity cause we print our own money.
тАЬThe affirmative task we have now is, uh, to actually, uh, create, uh, New World Order because the global order is changing again. And the institutions and the rules that worked so well in the post-World War II era for decades, they need to be strengthened, and some need to be changedтАж. So we have to lead. We have to update the rules of the road, and we have to do it in a way that maximizes benefits for everyone, because itтАЩs overwhelmingly in our interest that China prosper, that Mongolia prosper. тАжWe have to level the playing field.тАЭ
Only 1/2 the adult population is working (131.66 million full-time. Over 18, 258.3 million were adults,) 60% of THEM are receiving more back from the IRS than they paid in. Another 20 % barely pay for themselves that leaves the top 20% paying 87% of the income taxes. taxes... which means 10% of the population is paying 87% of the taxes and why we are going bankrupt. How many of the Democrats are working? Of Welfare recipients:
Democrat - 81% receive Public Housing and 74% Medicaid.
I think we should fly all new South, Central and Mexican Refugees to Europe as they never take Latinos and we are expected to take everyone. The world thinks it's OUR responsibility to equalize a whole continent by immigrating them to the US. (cost $24,691 per refugee per year. Children are at least $12,600 more for ed Special ED, twice as much). It is our right to refuse refugees if it will negatively affect our population and finances. Why are we taking refugees from Europe? Let Europe take care of the Ukraine. I don't see them importing Mexicans.
I suspect the leaders who direct policy for the rest of us don't know what they're doing, and make many dumb mistakes just like everyone else does. The Chinese government is much more dangerous than our own, but they are also making foolish errors. They have unlimited powers to implement totalitarian social control, and are trying hard to do so, yet still weren't able to foresee the catastrophe in commercial real estate, or the backlash against their new COVID lockdowns. Even if their strict social controls are able to prevent internal revolution, they are severely constraining creativity and economic participation with the wider world.
The Ukrainian situation shows how rusty most nations are when it comes to real warfare, as there hasn't been a war between great powers in so many decades. Russia, the EU, the UK, and the US are all making strategic miscalculations that look stupid, but also remind us how easily a nuclear war could start from a combination of poor decisions. I think the war itself has been a long play to cripple Russia, but backfired because Europe didn't have a backup plan for oil and gas. I can't begin to guess what Pentagon planners expect to happen, since we couldn't intimidate the Taliban out of Afghanistan after a 20-year campaign. Now we're going to put the squeeze on Putin by helping Ukraine resist the invasion? Makes no sense.
I guess I would expect a much greater risk of disaster coming from short-term thinking and lack of real-world experience, rather than a global consortium of elites who are playing 3D chess with human pawns. People who aspire to rule are seldom as clever as they think they are; and even if they are clever in some areas, that doesn't imply universal ability. The main reason we are governed by incompetent narcissists is that few of us can tolerate the pain of uncertainty in turbulent times; it's like an itch you can never scratch. When discussing such fun topics as COVID, inflation, or Ukraine, I've seen very few people able to exercise critical thinking. The reality of emotionally disturbing situations is that we lack information required to make optimal decisions--that's what makes them disturbing. The ability to come up with a strategy in the face of uncertainty, and to debate with others who may have different but also plausible strategies, and to be able to change course quickly when new information is available, is a rare skill, and one that requires strong internal discipline to acquire.
Next up on my reading list: The Wise Men, by Walter Isaacson, about the rare confluence of political wisdom in post-WWII America. I recently read an excellent biography of the Dulles brothers by Stephen Kinzer, which showed the dark side of what we unleashed on the world in the 20th century. George Kennan represented a more noble aspiration for a harmonious global future; if only there were people like that available to us now! The New World Order is an idiotic and poorly conceived ploy to "harmonize" taxation, immigration, and implement some unrealistic socialist/capitalist hybrid governance. There are far better ways to achieve a world in which everyone can coexist, if superpowers were focused on establishing a trust umbrella--meaning the minimalist rule of law required for trade cooperation.
Is this even possible? Not at the moment, but it was in the aftermath of WWII. America had the chance to create an atmosphere of mutual cooperation, and we blew it, big time. It can be done, but we might have to go through another period of great sacrifice to realize what every civilization has already learned: When the strong are allowed to prey on the weak, we are abandoning progress for chaos. I'm distinguishing the rule of law from welfare and aid. We don't owe poor nations financial support, any more than we owe it to our own people. Such policies always create dependencies and negative social stigma that combine to make people worse off in the long run. What we do owe to our fellow man is an environment of legal equality, in which the fear of harassment by the legal system is no greater for the poor than the wealthy. Do we owe people a good education? If we want them to be productive, then maybe so. Is government suited to this task? Doubtful, but there are other options, as we have seen with the charter school movement. Some private options are outright scams, some are well-intentioned but mediocre, and some are excellent. Parents are figuring out how to get what they need outside of the state system, just as young adults are considering whether a college education is still worth incurring massive debt.
My point is that there are no universal answers, just as there are no completely good or bad institutions, and very few definitively good or bad people. Life is complex, and requires trial and error to improve on the status quo. A healthy society recognizes this reality, and learns how to grapple with uncertainty. Hopefully we'll figure that out before things get ugly...
Astute Observation. A lot of good stuff in there. Was reading Archaeology mag about "The Last King of Babylon". Humans haven't changed very much even with a shitload of history to warn us. We bastardized Nature's selection. We kept alive nations of people who were unable to survive by themselves. Now we are expected to subsidize them at the cost of our future existence. We are doomed. Soon there will be a Hispanic government and SCOTUS. Do you have a hint of what they have planned for US?
Thank you for your wonderful input. Totally agree.
Thanks for the compliments! Good conversations often abound here, as they do in Glenn Greenwald's Substack comment threads. I tend not to put too much investment in either predictions of doom or utopia, because the world is extremely complex and surprising in ways that baffle everyone. I just read that article in Archaeology you refer to; the author seems to say something similar in the opening paragraph. The current events and trends we find alarming are only small, if brightly colored, threads in an enormous tapestry whose grand designs only become visible as at gets further away. The more I learn about how the world works, the less certain I get that I know how it might be improved. I'm better at predicting trends than I used to be, but still find myself on the wrong side of numerous bets because I had a mental narrative that sounded sensible, but was based on incomplete information or a narrow viewpoint of a bigger landscape than I could see. That's the reason there are so few successful investors; because understanding macroeconomic behavior is difficult. You have to relentlessly try to learn about everything, while at the same time quickly admitting your own foolish mistakes and changing course. But as long as you guess correctly slightly more than you guess erroneously, you can make a pretty decent living.
I suppose you're referring to political views, especially leftist, as religion, especially obvious among climate cultists. I've never heard of anyone who was conservative becoming leftist. It seems to go the other way as people mature.
Hmm, interesting point; how can we know for sure? As a Democrat who had a Libertarian epiphany two years ago due to COVID cultists, all the friends I've lost were leftists, and they wasted no time in throwing logic [as well as years of consistent friendship] under the bus due to their perception of ideological differences. I say perception because I was scarcely able to articulate my thought process in the avalanche of being told exactly how I think by people who once saw a Libertarian say something dumb on TV. Since I live in California, my few Republican friends have always been polite centrists, so I experienced no hostility from that camp. But I imagine if I lived in Arizona, I might have opposite views based on political demographics. So I'm wondering if what you say about people migrating from left to right is universal, or just what we perceive? Or is it more that we are experiencing an era in which the left has seized the reins of power, and are now the advocates of autocracy? Because for most of my life, that has described the right wing. Funny how things change over time...
I wasn't raised an observant Christian, but saluted the flag, learned the Lord's prayer, and rehearsed the pledge of allegiance in class. Aside from periodic visits to the front door from polite teenage Jehova's Witnesses, there was almost zero coercion. By comparison, I find the cultural shift toward government/corporation as God, absolutely terrifying.
I don't like this trend either, but perhaps it's not absolutely terrifying in a historical context. For most of human history, until very recently in fact, one's most significant concern was alienating one's community. In many parts of the world, it still is. For most people in most of history, their neighbors could isolate them, or in many cases do them physical harm, if people expressed religious or political views that were out of step with community norms. I'm old enough to remember people being assaulted for being flamboyantly gay, or black, in areas that frowned on such things. That used to be a much more immediate threat than an overbearing government or corporate crimes. Fortunately it no longer is, for most of us.
People are Left as long as they need subsidy. Take the Hispanic population. They came here with nothing. A lot needed subsidy to get on their feet. Now they are making money, working hard, paying taxes and proud of it. 2/3 of the federal tax payers get more back than the paid and less than 1/2 the adult population is working.
Progressives need to keep them dependent or minorities will no longer need them as a party. The Hispanics see millions of people parading into the country competing for their jobs and wages.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sep 12, 2017The Census Bureau reported on Tuesday that the median household income was $59,000 in 2016,
In 2019, the average household income was as high as $69,560 and would have likely kept growing if not for the COVID-19 Pandemic. The median US income in 2020 was $67,521, UP $9,904 in 4 years.
https://www.census.gov/libr...
Wage is contingent on Supply/Demand. Biden Median household income FALLS to $67,463 in 2021 year and will continue to fall through the millions more border trespassers competing for jobs.
https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hispanics are moving Republican as a block and I would say as immigrants in general start making money and higher wages, they see unauthorized invasion as a threat to themselves, personally. The more intelligent minorities also don't appreciate the Left removing pre requisites from education to jobs because they truly believe they do not have the ability to learn. That is an insult.
I could be wrong. We will find out in November, unless Face Book breaks out their PERSONAL BALLOT BOXES again.
All agreed, except I don't think the Biden administration is actually immigrant friendly in any way. They pretend to be, just as they pretend that all their novel taxation schemes are intended to get money from billionaires (which is why they lamely proposed last year that the IRS should have full access to anyone's bank account that received more than $600 in deposits per year). To give you an idea of how "open borders" we are these days, we've accepted maybe a dozen Ukrainian refugees, after all the bellyaching about the moral calamity, and how Putin must be overthrown. Already forgotten are the thousands of Afghan refugees who worked with the US military against the Taliban, whom we promised asylum and then left them hanging like we always do. Anyway, I do agree that the "relaxed" state college admissions standards seem like the typical liberal condescension, and that it's weird to think legal immigrants are expected to support the rights of illegal immigrants. But for all the reformist rhetoric of this administration, they are adhering to the old playbook, as Trump did, and Obama did before him. It seems to me there are only two goals: scare working class republicans about crime and immigrants, and fool working class democrats into voting more tax burdens upon themselves.
Thank You. Democrats bill themselves being for the minorities and against the Republican BOOGIEMAN. Biden got more corporate sponsorship than Trump.
Trump got the little people like the Marines Army, Postal Service, UPS
Trump generally fared better with manual laborers, with 84% of donors who reported being ranchers and 75% of construction workers giving to him.
Biden got FB, AMAZON, Google, Apple, Microsoft, JP Morgan, U of California, Wels Fargo,
Biden - Forced Diversity, WOKE colleges and Universities. Dr.s and Physicians thanking him for keeping their incomes HIGH!
Trump became the enemy of the Globalists when he touted "America First". That does not fit in with the New World Order that Biden is trying to institute where all countries have Equal everything to the US. That means all the US workers will have to foot the bill for the rest of the world to have equity cause we print our own money.
тАЬThe affirmative task we have now is, uh, to actually, uh, create, uh, New World Order because the global order is changing again. And the institutions and the rules that worked so well in the post-World War II era for decades, they need to be strengthened, and some need to be changedтАж. So we have to lead. We have to update the rules of the road, and we have to do it in a way that maximizes benefits for everyone, because itтАЩs overwhelmingly in our interest that China prosper, that Mongolia prosper. тАжWe have to level the playing field.тАЭ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1AMYHHAXhI
Only 1/2 the adult population is working (131.66 million full-time. Over 18, 258.3 million were adults,) 60% of THEM are receiving more back from the IRS than they paid in. Another 20 % barely pay for themselves that leaves the top 20% paying 87% of the income taxes. taxes... which means 10% of the population is paying 87% of the taxes and why we are going bankrupt. How many of the Democrats are working? Of Welfare recipients:
Democrat - 81% receive Public Housing and 74% Medicaid.
I think we should fly all new South, Central and Mexican Refugees to Europe as they never take Latinos and we are expected to take everyone. The world thinks it's OUR responsibility to equalize a whole continent by immigrating them to the US. (cost $24,691 per refugee per year. Children are at least $12,600 more for ed Special ED, twice as much). It is our right to refuse refugees if it will negatively affect our population and finances. Why are we taking refugees from Europe? Let Europe take care of the Ukraine. I don't see them importing Mexicans.
The Ukraine? If you break it, you own it.
I essentially agree with you on everything.
I suspect the leaders who direct policy for the rest of us don't know what they're doing, and make many dumb mistakes just like everyone else does. The Chinese government is much more dangerous than our own, but they are also making foolish errors. They have unlimited powers to implement totalitarian social control, and are trying hard to do so, yet still weren't able to foresee the catastrophe in commercial real estate, or the backlash against their new COVID lockdowns. Even if their strict social controls are able to prevent internal revolution, they are severely constraining creativity and economic participation with the wider world.
The Ukrainian situation shows how rusty most nations are when it comes to real warfare, as there hasn't been a war between great powers in so many decades. Russia, the EU, the UK, and the US are all making strategic miscalculations that look stupid, but also remind us how easily a nuclear war could start from a combination of poor decisions. I think the war itself has been a long play to cripple Russia, but backfired because Europe didn't have a backup plan for oil and gas. I can't begin to guess what Pentagon planners expect to happen, since we couldn't intimidate the Taliban out of Afghanistan after a 20-year campaign. Now we're going to put the squeeze on Putin by helping Ukraine resist the invasion? Makes no sense.
I guess I would expect a much greater risk of disaster coming from short-term thinking and lack of real-world experience, rather than a global consortium of elites who are playing 3D chess with human pawns. People who aspire to rule are seldom as clever as they think they are; and even if they are clever in some areas, that doesn't imply universal ability. The main reason we are governed by incompetent narcissists is that few of us can tolerate the pain of uncertainty in turbulent times; it's like an itch you can never scratch. When discussing such fun topics as COVID, inflation, or Ukraine, I've seen very few people able to exercise critical thinking. The reality of emotionally disturbing situations is that we lack information required to make optimal decisions--that's what makes them disturbing. The ability to come up with a strategy in the face of uncertainty, and to debate with others who may have different but also plausible strategies, and to be able to change course quickly when new information is available, is a rare skill, and one that requires strong internal discipline to acquire.
Next up on my reading list: The Wise Men, by Walter Isaacson, about the rare confluence of political wisdom in post-WWII America. I recently read an excellent biography of the Dulles brothers by Stephen Kinzer, which showed the dark side of what we unleashed on the world in the 20th century. George Kennan represented a more noble aspiration for a harmonious global future; if only there were people like that available to us now! The New World Order is an idiotic and poorly conceived ploy to "harmonize" taxation, immigration, and implement some unrealistic socialist/capitalist hybrid governance. There are far better ways to achieve a world in which everyone can coexist, if superpowers were focused on establishing a trust umbrella--meaning the minimalist rule of law required for trade cooperation.
Is this even possible? Not at the moment, but it was in the aftermath of WWII. America had the chance to create an atmosphere of mutual cooperation, and we blew it, big time. It can be done, but we might have to go through another period of great sacrifice to realize what every civilization has already learned: When the strong are allowed to prey on the weak, we are abandoning progress for chaos. I'm distinguishing the rule of law from welfare and aid. We don't owe poor nations financial support, any more than we owe it to our own people. Such policies always create dependencies and negative social stigma that combine to make people worse off in the long run. What we do owe to our fellow man is an environment of legal equality, in which the fear of harassment by the legal system is no greater for the poor than the wealthy. Do we owe people a good education? If we want them to be productive, then maybe so. Is government suited to this task? Doubtful, but there are other options, as we have seen with the charter school movement. Some private options are outright scams, some are well-intentioned but mediocre, and some are excellent. Parents are figuring out how to get what they need outside of the state system, just as young adults are considering whether a college education is still worth incurring massive debt.
My point is that there are no universal answers, just as there are no completely good or bad institutions, and very few definitively good or bad people. Life is complex, and requires trial and error to improve on the status quo. A healthy society recognizes this reality, and learns how to grapple with uncertainty. Hopefully we'll figure that out before things get ugly...
Astute Observation. A lot of good stuff in there. Was reading Archaeology mag about "The Last King of Babylon". Humans haven't changed very much even with a shitload of history to warn us. We bastardized Nature's selection. We kept alive nations of people who were unable to survive by themselves. Now we are expected to subsidize them at the cost of our future existence. We are doomed. Soon there will be a Hispanic government and SCOTUS. Do you have a hint of what they have planned for US?
Thank you for your wonderful input. Totally agree.
Thanks for the compliments! Good conversations often abound here, as they do in Glenn Greenwald's Substack comment threads. I tend not to put too much investment in either predictions of doom or utopia, because the world is extremely complex and surprising in ways that baffle everyone. I just read that article in Archaeology you refer to; the author seems to say something similar in the opening paragraph. The current events and trends we find alarming are only small, if brightly colored, threads in an enormous tapestry whose grand designs only become visible as at gets further away. The more I learn about how the world works, the less certain I get that I know how it might be improved. I'm better at predicting trends than I used to be, but still find myself on the wrong side of numerous bets because I had a mental narrative that sounded sensible, but was based on incomplete information or a narrow viewpoint of a bigger landscape than I could see. That's the reason there are so few successful investors; because understanding macroeconomic behavior is difficult. You have to relentlessly try to learn about everything, while at the same time quickly admitting your own foolish mistakes and changing course. But as long as you guess correctly slightly more than you guess erroneously, you can make a pretty decent living.
If you arenтАЩt a liberal at 20 you have no heart, if you arenтАЩt a conservative at 40 you have no brain-Winston Churchill
Actually, Disraeli said it. Probably, Churchill agreed with it, though.
I know people whoтАЩve gone from Right to Left even though as you say, most people, especially most men, become more Right wing as they get older.