I believe those are the "Boys in the Castle Walls" or something like that, but searching that doesn't find anything. Looking it up on Wikipedia now says that it's a folk tale of unknown origin, but one historical basis given is that they were rescued by John of Gaunt, who was man whom the Lancastrian claim to the throne descended from
Hmm. I only know them as the supposed victims of Richard III, who, of course was of the York house.
But, though John of Gaunt certainly sired the Lancasters (his Duchy), he was the son of Edward III, and antedated the victory of York under Edward of York, later Edward IV.
And, of course, Lancaster eventually defeated Richard in the person of Henry Tudor (Henry VII), who descended on his mother's side from John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, and his long-time mistress and eventual third Duchess, Katherine Swinford (sp?), sister-in-law of Geoffrey Chaucer. These were the Beauforts, if memory serves.
There is a wonderful mystery novel, Josephine Tey's The Daughter of Time, which deals with a British police inspector, hospitalized, who with the assistance of a young American researcher, investigates and clears Richard of murdering his this nephews.
He indeed had great names, they were mostly random historic names he discovered doing his research on the region. Far from the Madding Crowd is fairly typical of his work, though later on he started having somewhat better storylines. Later on he started having stronger premises and it still didn't improve his work all that much.
An interesting fact about Crane's real life shipwreck that I didn't hear Brad or Matt mention (apologies if they did) was that Crane was reported dead by many newspapers after news of the shipwreck and before his rescue. I'm not sure why Matt thinks the camaraderie of the men degrades as the story proceeds. I always thought the central theme of The Open Boat is that the only thing that can save the men is their tight bond. Neither the house of refuge, the lighthouse, the life saving station, or the morons on shore, do a single thing to help them. Their solidarity is what saves them. In the text, Crane describes their friendship as "the finest experience of his life." This theme is a polar opposite to Maggie where nobody can trust or count on anyone. He may have been nihilistic but I see lots of hope in "The Open Boat." I get the impression that Matt struggles with Crane. He should read "The Blue Hotel", or "The Five White Mice", or "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky". Those stories blew my mind. They are so good! Another mind blower is is his poem "In the Desert."
How did I forget to say that! I am sure I said it when I announced we would be doing this story on a prior episode. Funny enough, his contemporary Jack London was also reported lost at sea, I was sure there was a picture of him holding the headline but for some reason can't find it.
I think Matt touched on what makes modern storytelling:
You START with the shocking incident, and work backwards, psycholigically, from the climactic incident. You back-trace the journey of each of the participants back through the last 24-48-72 hours.
Sorry to say, Matt Taibbi, that I will be cancelling my paid subscription for the time being. I still have tremendous respect for your work, but I just haven't seen enough of it lately, and the Get Lit podcast is a poor substitute for your old America This Week show. I also miss the Swamp Log from Emily Kopp's brief tenure. Best wishes.
The "omnibus" thing is the 100-yo-equivalent of modern people seeing you dying, and pulling their cell phones and filming this remarkable spectacle.
The Babes in the Wood were the princely sons of Edward IV, supposedly killed by Richard III, but much more likely later by Henry VII.
I believe those are the "Boys in the Castle Walls" or something like that, but searching that doesn't find anything. Looking it up on Wikipedia now says that it's a folk tale of unknown origin, but one historical basis given is that they were rescued by John of Gaunt, who was man whom the Lancastrian claim to the throne descended from
Hmm. I only know them as the supposed victims of Richard III, who, of course was of the York house.
But, though John of Gaunt certainly sired the Lancasters (his Duchy), he was the son of Edward III, and antedated the victory of York under Edward of York, later Edward IV.
And, of course, Lancaster eventually defeated Richard in the person of Henry Tudor (Henry VII), who descended on his mother's side from John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, and his long-time mistress and eventual third Duchess, Katherine Swinford (sp?), sister-in-law of Geoffrey Chaucer. These were the Beauforts, if memory serves.
There is a wonderful mystery novel, Josephine Tey's The Daughter of Time, which deals with a British police inspector, hospitalized, who with the assistance of a young American researcher, investigates and clears Richard of murdering his this nephews.
yeah the wikipedia page is not particularly helpful, I am sure at some point I read a better origin story of the babes in the woods
Try this - it refers to a pantomime, but one that derives from the ballad.
https://www.hypnogoria.com/folklore_babes.html
Thanks, and enough to get me to find that "The Princes in the Tower" are what they call the missing nephews
Yes, but as the linked piece points out, some disguise was advisable for safety - lese majeste was a serious crime.
Heavens, use just a little French and watch out for autocorrect! It wanted me to say less instead of lese.
Brad, I agree about Thomas Hardy. He is doggestly patoral. ""Far From the Madding Crowd" is a tedious manual of shepherding.
But his heroines do have the most AWESOME names. Eustacia Vye, Bathsheba Everdine, etc.
He indeed had great names, they were mostly random historic names he discovered doing his research on the region. Far from the Madding Crowd is fairly typical of his work, though later on he started having somewhat better storylines. Later on he started having stronger premises and it still didn't improve his work all that much.
An interesting fact about Crane's real life shipwreck that I didn't hear Brad or Matt mention (apologies if they did) was that Crane was reported dead by many newspapers after news of the shipwreck and before his rescue. I'm not sure why Matt thinks the camaraderie of the men degrades as the story proceeds. I always thought the central theme of The Open Boat is that the only thing that can save the men is their tight bond. Neither the house of refuge, the lighthouse, the life saving station, or the morons on shore, do a single thing to help them. Their solidarity is what saves them. In the text, Crane describes their friendship as "the finest experience of his life." This theme is a polar opposite to Maggie where nobody can trust or count on anyone. He may have been nihilistic but I see lots of hope in "The Open Boat." I get the impression that Matt struggles with Crane. He should read "The Blue Hotel", or "The Five White Mice", or "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky". Those stories blew my mind. They are so good! Another mind blower is is his poem "In the Desert."
How did I forget to say that! I am sure I said it when I announced we would be doing this story on a prior episode. Funny enough, his contemporary Jack London was also reported lost at sea, I was sure there was a picture of him holding the headline but for some reason can't find it.
Good Crane story. (Though the illustration used here is tonally quite wrong re the story.)
I think Matt touched on what makes modern storytelling:
You START with the shocking incident, and work backwards, psycholigically, from the climactic incident. You back-trace the journey of each of the participants back through the last 24-48-72 hours.
Sorry to say, Matt Taibbi, that I will be cancelling my paid subscription for the time being. I still have tremendous respect for your work, but I just haven't seen enough of it lately, and the Get Lit podcast is a poor substitute for your old America This Week show. I also miss the Swamp Log from Emily Kopp's brief tenure. Best wishes.