Wait, are you suggesting there might be other possible opinions than the one held by the CIA and the Pentagon which we are being constantly clobbered with by the mass media?
I don't blame anybody for not trusting the US government. Go back to the Indian wars in the 1800's. I know I got this from westerns I watched as a kid, but... "White man speak with forked tongue"
I think the Collective West and its media have made it pretty clear that they hate,and expect all decent Westerners to hate, all things Russian. That goes for Russian athletes, musicians, even cats. I've heard that about 20% of the Russian people are liberals who for decades have wanted to integrate with the West, but from what I've been reading, it appears that even they now realize that Europe and America hate them and want to destroy them. They may have reason to distrust Putin, but why would they ever trust the West again?
I don't think Americans hate Russians. This is Putin's war. It's wrong that Russian athletes, singers, are being targeted. The first time I heard of this kind of thing was a Russian opera singer being removed from the group. To me, this is wrong. There are probably many Americans who feel as I do. I know for me, I see this as Putin's creation, not the Russian people.
I don't think most Americans hate Russians, because I think most Americans don't actually know anything about Russians. We've been propagandized by the western elites and their media to think of Russians as "other," somehow less worthy. IHMO if any other ethnicity or culture were treated that way, we'd be screaming "racist," but somehow, when Russians are slurred, it's OK. Note that Biden himself publicly admonished the Russian people just last week and told them they are personally culpable if they don't overthrow Putin (as the US directs). By Biden's reasoning, every American would be guilty of multiple war crimes based on the conduct of American foreign "policy" establishment.
yes, I was initially excited that Matt is giving an alternative to the cancelled RT Sputnik voices, but turns out he is still reluctant to call out the West for what it is. Love affairs are hard to get over, even after repeated betrayals.
Why would they trust the West again after Collective West stole their Central Bank's foreign reserves? How can any country trust western financial architecture after that?
I think that is EXACTLY what China, India, and Pakistan (among others) are thinking now. They have learned that the precautions Russia took are not enough, and I'm guessing they are already implementing plans to secure finance routes and leverage to be in a better position when (not if) the US does the same to them.
Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and Israel.
by David Brooks
04/15/2002, Volume 007, Issue 30"
This is the David Brooks I had forgotten to respect for his academic CONservative intellectual acuity. (By the way,🤔 could you help this hapless operative access "part 2" of the article❔)
Kagarlitsky's column was always one of the most interesting reads in The Moscow Times; definitely interested in checking this out. Thank you for organizing. And understanding this is key: "I suspect many Americans will find the attitudes in some of these pieces to be puzzling or even off-putting. For one thing, even Russians who are fiercely opposed to the war in Ukraine are often not positively disposed toward the West."
I don't have to support the Russian writers' points of view to support their right to publish them. Thanks for doing something substantive to foster freedom of speech. It's not just an American or Western right, it is a human right.
Putin is a thug, but that's not why the American elite hate him. They hate him because he only allows Russian oligarchs to rape the country; he sent the foreign ravishers home.
You mean like Iraq, Yemen, and Syria? We were happy having ISIS take over Syria until Russia came to the rescue.
Apropos sodomized. You mean like Libya, which was the wealthiest and best educated country on the continent of Africa until we overthrew Ghaddafi and he was sodomized with a bayonet? What do you think of the open slave trade now in Libya? Better, worse or just different than Chechnya? You think the people of Yemen would trade places with the people of Georgia?
"A theme that pops up at times is an embittered belief that American policymakers may have concluded long ago that the Russian people were more useful to them as enemies than as friends."
I can understand why they might doubt the beneficence of the American government. I have plenty of reason to do so.
I liked this comment, though I'm not sure I agree with it. Following the Second World War the same "baked into the cake" attitudes were prevalent with regard to Japan and Germany — in short, they were widely believed to be incapable of liberal democracy. Such was the basis of the Morgenthau Plan, devised immediately after the fall of Berlin, to permanently deindustrialize Germany, including the seizure of all its heavy machinery and the razing of all its forestland. (Keith Lowe's excellent book "Savage Continent" details the forgotten history of postwar Germany in great detail, including what can only be described as a genocide perpetrated against ethnic Germans in parts of Czechoslovakia and Poland.)
All of which is to say: I don't think there is anything fundamental about the nature of Russian people that makes them any more or less capable of self-governance and open societies than, say, the Japanese. Honor cultures exist around the world, including in large swaths of the United States.
I do agree that America's long history of prosperity and cultural dominance prevents most Americans from being able to understand the rest of the world (and, to a certain extent, their own world). All the weirdly pro-Putin commenters on this blog have the luxury of cheerleading a despot from the comfort of their American homes — they wouldn't last a week in Putin's Russia. They are the mirror image of America's pro-Chavez left wing 20 years ago.
To be clear: I don't believe Western liberalism could ever be imposed on Russia from without. A post-WWII style reconstruction, should events ever make it possible (unlikely), would indeed prove a dismal failure.
That being said: Russia is not Saudi Arabia. It has (or had, until February) a fairly large professional and creative class. It also has a centuries-long tradition of cultural excellence in the arts, music, literature, and science that is neither trivial in its global reach nor insubstantial enough to suggest a nation hopelessly mired in tribalistic despotism. The obstacles to liberalization would be immense, and daunting — particularly, dismantling the klepto-state and extinguishing the vast corruption it imposes. But the ingredients are there in a way that they weren't in, say, Afghanistan, where no amount of Western money would ever have made a difference.
One final note: America has its own Dugins, and its own inbred tribalism. I've never been to Russia (sadly, I may not have a chance to go for many years). But I would imagine that the people one might meet in its vast rural expanses are not so different from those you'd find in parts of rural America: obstinately suspicious, conspiratorial, parochial, fundamentalist, and vapidly nationalistic. These are universal human traits, and they are distributed among peoples of every nation on earth. The difference between America and Russia is that we've (historically) done a better job of keeping our crazies on the margins — though that's certainly not the case anymore.
I'm not sure, but based on what I've read and interviews I've listened to, Putin views Ukraine as Russia's "mini me". How is it that Ukraine seems to be moving in a direction of democracy and wanting to become a member of the EU? Maybe Ukraine isn't a mini me of Russia, but a country with it's own history and traditions.
Moving in the direction of democracy? …By having a U.S.-backed coup, a massive military buildup funded and trained by NATO and staffed by literal Nazis, killing 14,000 of your own citizens, shutting down opposition parties and press outlets (and that was before the war)…this is a democracy? Lol.
From an executive at Substack: "withstanding scrutiny makes truth stronger, not weaker." I would also suggest making a new substack for pro-Russian intervention writers who dissent from the western MSM narrative and have been equally censored. I am never in favor of violence, but the censorship in the west of the intentional goading by NATO to get Russia to invade, and the unmentioned, but obvious goal of using Ukrainians as pawns to "bleed Russia" instead of promoting real peace and democracy in Ukraine needs to be part of the debate. Also the relationship between western based multinational corporations (who long for a return to the looting of the Yeltsin years) and the imperial war machine needs further discussion.
Super! Now we only need an equivalent substack for all the dissident writers in the West who have been censored, silenced, and deplatformed. Hold a moment, I am now being informed that is in fact what substack is. Carry on.
Wait, are you suggesting there might be other possible opinions than the one held by the CIA and the Pentagon which we are being constantly clobbered with by the mass media?
Glen Greenwald certainly believes the MSM is a spokesperson for US intelligence agencies. What should we expect?
Call me old fashion, but I expect the media to do its job.
They won't.
Yes, they will 'cause their job is to support US Empire.
Ibdo nit recall the last time when mainstream media actually did its job
Only through thoughtful exchange can one ever hope for civility to exist.
It helps if leaders value human life. If they don't, what can we expect to see?
Thanks! Matt for bypassing all the propaganda and allowing the world to hear the censored Russian voices.
I don’t know for sure but my guess is the feelings for the West are pretty universally frosty
I don't blame anybody for not trusting the US government. Go back to the Indian wars in the 1800's. I know I got this from westerns I watched as a kid, but... "White man speak with forked tongue"
NATO/US apologists are infinitely worse. NATO/US killed infinitely more many innocent people than Putin did.
I think the Collective West and its media have made it pretty clear that they hate,and expect all decent Westerners to hate, all things Russian. That goes for Russian athletes, musicians, even cats. I've heard that about 20% of the Russian people are liberals who for decades have wanted to integrate with the West, but from what I've been reading, it appears that even they now realize that Europe and America hate them and want to destroy them. They may have reason to distrust Putin, but why would they ever trust the West again?
I don't think Americans hate Russians. This is Putin's war. It's wrong that Russian athletes, singers, are being targeted. The first time I heard of this kind of thing was a Russian opera singer being removed from the group. To me, this is wrong. There are probably many Americans who feel as I do. I know for me, I see this as Putin's creation, not the Russian people.
I don't think most Americans hate Russians, because I think most Americans don't actually know anything about Russians. We've been propagandized by the western elites and their media to think of Russians as "other," somehow less worthy. IHMO if any other ethnicity or culture were treated that way, we'd be screaming "racist," but somehow, when Russians are slurred, it's OK. Note that Biden himself publicly admonished the Russian people just last week and told them they are personally culpable if they don't overthrow Putin (as the US directs). By Biden's reasoning, every American would be guilty of multiple war crimes based on the conduct of American foreign "policy" establishment.
You don’t seem informed enough to see much.
Have you been over to the Russian dissenters page? They are toxiclly anti Russian many of them. I'm not sure if they are russians tho.
You’re casting aspersions on brave Russian anti PUTiN authors like Victoriya Nulandova?
yes, I was initially excited that Matt is giving an alternative to the cancelled RT Sputnik voices, but turns out he is still reluctant to call out the West for what it is. Love affairs are hard to get over, even after repeated betrayals.
I think a pragmatic approach would be helpful for Russia. I'm referring to their economy. Why shouldn't Russia trade with the West and Asia?
Why would they trust the West again after Collective West stole their Central Bank's foreign reserves? How can any country trust western financial architecture after that?
I think that is EXACTLY what China, India, and Pakistan (among others) are thinking now. They have learned that the precautions Russia took are not enough, and I'm guessing they are already implementing plans to secure finance routes and leverage to be in a better position when (not if) the US does the same to them.
@ e.pierce 👍❔
Thanks for this excellent reference;
"Among the Bourgeoisophobes
Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and Israel.
by David Brooks
04/15/2002, Volume 007, Issue 30"
This is the David Brooks I had forgotten to respect for his academic CONservative intellectual acuity. (By the way,🤔 could you help this hapless operative access "part 2" of the article❔)
As Usual,
EA😎
Kagarlitsky's column was always one of the most interesting reads in The Moscow Times; definitely interested in checking this out. Thank you for organizing. And understanding this is key: "I suspect many Americans will find the attitudes in some of these pieces to be puzzling or even off-putting. For one thing, even Russians who are fiercely opposed to the war in Ukraine are often not positively disposed toward the West."
“Alla Glinchikova’s article, “I Can’t Not Write,” she opines that the United States never even wanted its “accidental victory” in the Cold War:”
It’s telling that Russians know this but most Americans don’t. It explains why the U.S. is still obsessed with Russia.
Pretty gutsy move, Matt. Bravo.
I don't have to support the Russian writers' points of view to support their right to publish them. Thanks for doing something substantive to foster freedom of speech. It's not just an American or Western right, it is a human right.
How can you have a real, functioning democracy without a free press?
Shut up, Elon! How dare you!
Putin is a thug, but that's not why the American elite hate him. They hate him because he only allows Russian oligarchs to rape the country; he sent the foreign ravishers home.
Well, better to get raped than sodomized. The countries we "rape" seem to do better than the ones he "saves" for himself.
You mean like Iraq, Yemen, and Syria? We were happy having ISIS take over Syria until Russia came to the rescue.
Apropos sodomized. You mean like Libya, which was the wealthiest and best educated country on the continent of Africa until we overthrew Ghaddafi and he was sodomized with a bayonet? What do you think of the open slave trade now in Libya? Better, worse or just different than Chechnya? You think the people of Yemen would trade places with the people of Georgia?
Do you mean Aleppo, Grozny? And now Ukraine?
Yes.
Great idea!
Good initiative, Matt.
"A theme that pops up at times is an embittered belief that American policymakers may have concluded long ago that the Russian people were more useful to them as enemies than as friends."
I can understand why they might doubt the beneficence of the American government. I have plenty of reason to do so.
I liked this comment, though I'm not sure I agree with it. Following the Second World War the same "baked into the cake" attitudes were prevalent with regard to Japan and Germany — in short, they were widely believed to be incapable of liberal democracy. Such was the basis of the Morgenthau Plan, devised immediately after the fall of Berlin, to permanently deindustrialize Germany, including the seizure of all its heavy machinery and the razing of all its forestland. (Keith Lowe's excellent book "Savage Continent" details the forgotten history of postwar Germany in great detail, including what can only be described as a genocide perpetrated against ethnic Germans in parts of Czechoslovakia and Poland.)
All of which is to say: I don't think there is anything fundamental about the nature of Russian people that makes them any more or less capable of self-governance and open societies than, say, the Japanese. Honor cultures exist around the world, including in large swaths of the United States.
I do agree that America's long history of prosperity and cultural dominance prevents most Americans from being able to understand the rest of the world (and, to a certain extent, their own world). All the weirdly pro-Putin commenters on this blog have the luxury of cheerleading a despot from the comfort of their American homes — they wouldn't last a week in Putin's Russia. They are the mirror image of America's pro-Chavez left wing 20 years ago.
To be clear: I don't believe Western liberalism could ever be imposed on Russia from without. A post-WWII style reconstruction, should events ever make it possible (unlikely), would indeed prove a dismal failure.
That being said: Russia is not Saudi Arabia. It has (or had, until February) a fairly large professional and creative class. It also has a centuries-long tradition of cultural excellence in the arts, music, literature, and science that is neither trivial in its global reach nor insubstantial enough to suggest a nation hopelessly mired in tribalistic despotism. The obstacles to liberalization would be immense, and daunting — particularly, dismantling the klepto-state and extinguishing the vast corruption it imposes. But the ingredients are there in a way that they weren't in, say, Afghanistan, where no amount of Western money would ever have made a difference.
One final note: America has its own Dugins, and its own inbred tribalism. I've never been to Russia (sadly, I may not have a chance to go for many years). But I would imagine that the people one might meet in its vast rural expanses are not so different from those you'd find in parts of rural America: obstinately suspicious, conspiratorial, parochial, fundamentalist, and vapidly nationalistic. These are universal human traits, and they are distributed among peoples of every nation on earth. The difference between America and Russia is that we've (historically) done a better job of keeping our crazies on the margins — though that's certainly not the case anymore.
I'm not sure, but based on what I've read and interviews I've listened to, Putin views Ukraine as Russia's "mini me". How is it that Ukraine seems to be moving in a direction of democracy and wanting to become a member of the EU? Maybe Ukraine isn't a mini me of Russia, but a country with it's own history and traditions.
Moving in the direction of democracy? …By having a U.S.-backed coup, a massive military buildup funded and trained by NATO and staffed by literal Nazis, killing 14,000 of your own citizens, shutting down opposition parties and press outlets (and that was before the war)…this is a democracy? Lol.
If Putin takes control of Ukraine, what will it be? What about the people of Ukraine? They shouldn't have a say?
From an executive at Substack: "withstanding scrutiny makes truth stronger, not weaker." I would also suggest making a new substack for pro-Russian intervention writers who dissent from the western MSM narrative and have been equally censored. I am never in favor of violence, but the censorship in the west of the intentional goading by NATO to get Russia to invade, and the unmentioned, but obvious goal of using Ukrainians as pawns to "bleed Russia" instead of promoting real peace and democracy in Ukraine needs to be part of the debate. Also the relationship between western based multinational corporations (who long for a return to the looting of the Yeltsin years) and the imperial war machine needs further discussion.
I think it's a great idea !
Super! Now we only need an equivalent substack for all the dissident writers in the West who have been censored, silenced, and deplatformed. Hold a moment, I am now being informed that is in fact what substack is. Carry on.
Thanks, Matt. Is this something readers would subscribe to? Or would there be an option to donate?
None of this has ANYTHING to do with TK.
Little bit of a typo there in the third para.
Jesus, I need to get more sleep. Obviously that was originally a different sentence. Thanks… sorry
No good deed goes unpunished. Great work you are doing with this piece in specific, and TK in general.
Thanks. What a great idea. I’m sure I’ll learn something and find their perspectives very interesting.