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Jesse's avatar

Americans cities aren’t a war zone. If people want to protest the government-military complex destroying the property of minorities isn’t the answer. This is a false equivalence. I doubt the small business owners will find comfort in your convoluted justification for gangster tactics.

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tdsisti's avatar

War zones are not designated places. Do you propose that the places and people being bombed by the U.S. wanted their homes, hospitals, business, weddings, funerals, and country sacrificed to wars? You’re wrong.

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Jesse's avatar

You went all 2009 Glenn Beck on me. Stick to the bigger picture: rioters destroying private property of little guys to stick it up to Big Corp and war-profiteering thugs. —keen logic right there. In the meantime the likes of Amazon are seeing their stock soar as their “competition” (small businesses) are systematically being destroyed. First revolution swimming in corporate cash and indulging in corporate sponsorship.

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Trollificus's avatar

Very much this. I'm not all tinfoil hatty about the origins of the Covid, but the effects of the *shutdowns* have been detrimental to the middle class, small businessmen and individual smaller entrepreneurs, as if they were designed to do so.

That the risks of the "pandemic" have been so hysterically (and sometimes fraudulently) overblown by the bought-and-paid-for legacy media does have me reaching for the Reynolds Wrap thouigh.

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Skutch's avatar

They are now. What's the matter ? You don't like getting some of your own medicine ?

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Smaack's avatar

If this is really how you feel then I expect you'll be voting for Trump. He's the first President in my lifetime (and I'm 60) who hasn't initiated any new wars.

Just kidding. I know you won't. I have a friend who thinks like you who described Obama as a "war criminal" in 2012 and then voted for him anyway on the grounds that Mitt Romney would probably be a war criminal too. Can't let principals get in the way of tribalism.

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Jay Fiske's avatar

All presidents are war criminals.

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Skutch's avatar

And most of them are puppets as well.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

Trump is also the first president to have so openly looted the treasury with brazen disregard for the well-being of anyone.

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Rick Merlotti's avatar

As opposed to the all the POTUS's of both parties who looted the Treasury behind closed doors. Trump is an unique evil, we must return to the "normal" looting of working people and endless war, and probable nuclear war that Biden will bring.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

I agree with you that covert, silent or unreported looting is at least as bad as open looting, and I think both parties have probably been looting the treasury in most administrations. But open looting is no better, unless it spurs action to stop it. Trump has been openly looting during his first term, I think, and now it is time to take action to stop it.

Now where do you get the strange idea that Biden will start a nuclear war? On that subject, I think someone has been lying to you. Strategic nuclear deterrence has been the backbone of US military policy since the 1950s. Biden has been part of that consensus during his entire time in Federal office.

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Rick Merlotti's avatar

Biden was Proconsul to Ukraine during the Nazi-led color revolution. The UK/US NATO Empire has been moving troops, weapons closer and closer to Russia's borders for 2 decades. Biden's handlers (Remember that he was never a smart guy, and now he is sliding into dementia) will be people like Susan Rice and John Brennan, who have a visceral hated for Russia. Putin has been unbelievably patient in the face of constant provocations from the Bush/Obama warhawk faction. That Trump has pushed back even slightly against the bipartisan consensus for forever wars and nuclear gamesmanship is his real crime (in their eyes). Nuclear war is almost inevitable because it just takes a miscalculation or a technical error (which has happened numerous times over the last decades) to send the birds flying. Only way out is a new paradigm of win-win cooperation amongst the world's superpowers. Trump has at least an inkling of this sort of worldview. That is why a coup has been in process to remove him since before he even took office. He is odious on many levels, but is the best chance we have for the survival of human civilization. Biden is a vote for war, whether accidental or intentional.

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Antipodean's avatar

I think you are definitely on the right track Rick.

I'm plowing my way through a book by a Ukraine specialist at the moment, Richard Sakwa. A review by a former British diplomat** and the early chapters of the book tend to parallel what you are saying.

For example, from the reviewer

"...I have qualifications for reviewing this book: I am a former British diplomat now a diplomatic consultant. I have been involved with relations with the USSR and Russia all my working life. I am the author of 'A Valedictory Despatch' (soon to be published) which deals at some length with the Ukraine crisis...."

"...What worries me is the near impossibility of drawing attention to any work - even this one - contradicting the grossly MISTAKEN 'received wisdom' of the print and TV media in both 'the West' and Russia. So this essential book on a subject of immense importance to us all may suffer this self-censorship. I know. I have to struggle against this myself!..."

Source: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1269979066

_____________

**John Pedler is a former British diplomat now a diplomatic consultant based in France. He was posted to Vienna, Singapore, Saigon, Vientiane, Phnom Penh and Paris. He was a war correspondent in Vietnam, a businessman in Mao’s China, and the first Director of the Cambodia Trust. He worked for the Bosnian government during the siege of Sarajevo. He was educated at the Browne and Nicholls School, Cambridge, Mass. USA and the London School of Economics (where he took a subsidiary course in Comparative Religion).

Examples from the book, here on H. Clinton, etc.

Excerpt 1: https://imgbox.com/nCr2XTK1 (R. Sakwa book pg 30-31)

Excerpt 2: https://imgbox.com/0dRE26o7 (R. Sakwa book pg 32-33)

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

Interesting! But, of course, speculative.

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Antipodean's avatar

Hi Ralph

The war bit might not be too speculative, though of which type I have no idea. Refer to my reply to Rick, above, for more detail.

I think the quote from the British diplomat, in my reply to Rick, is very relevant for the times we find ourselves in:

"...What worries me is the near impossibility of drawing attention to any work - even this one - contradicting the grossly MISTAKEN 'received wisdom' of the print and TV media in both 'the West' and Russia. So this essential book on a subject of immense importance to us all may suffer this self-censorship. I know. I have to struggle against this myself!..."

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Skutch's avatar

You're not very well informed then. Keep voting and pretending it will make a difference when you live in a plutocracy. I can tell you have no idea what "principals" actually are when you vote for someone who's shunned them his entire life.

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Postimpressionist's avatar

It did make a difference. We are in no new wars and have more peace in the Mideast and more peace in Korea.

Trump fired Bolton because he wanted to invade Syria.

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Smaack's avatar

So...you're voting Green Party?

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Skutch's avatar

Why bother ? This is a plutocracy not a democratic republic. The Princeton study proved our representatives no longer represent our interests unless it just so happens to align with the wishes of the corporate authoritarians.

How else do these forever wars and austerity no one wants continue while the elite continue to concentrate all the wealth and power ?

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Smaack's avatar

Ah, so you're irrelevant. Good to know.

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Skutch's avatar

No more than you are. I just realize I'm irrelevant when it's time to decide policy. You're too ignorant and full of propaganda to realize your own irrelevancy.

Vote harder next time and watch as nothing changes.

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Lipo Davis's avatar

The one thing you're not is persuasive. You're just a POS.

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Trollificus's avatar

Don't limit yourself to being "irrelevant when it's time to decide policy"! You're also irrelevant when presenting the loose stool of your poolitical ideas.

(typo? what typo?)

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Bea South's avatar

Then why are you so exhaustively attacking everyone and every idea. If nothing matters then nothing you say matters.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

Are you a real person, Skutch?

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Skutch's avatar

Are you a real person Ralph, and if so, when did you stop beating your wife ?

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

I claim to be a real person. But if you are trying to evaluate the truth of my personhood, you cannot very well rely on my testimony, can you? As for beating my wife, I did get mad and punch her car, a nice old green Volvo, putting a dent in it. I stopped that right after damaging the Volvo, probably in 1985.

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Antipodean's avatar

Skutch...

It means "pest" and has been used for several generations by Italian-Americans. It comes from the Italian word, "scocciare" (pron. skoh-CHA-reh)which means "to bother or annoy".

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skutch

Skutch...150+ comments in 24 hours...an impressive body of work ;-)

Some random samplings....I'm sure I spot a "change of shifts" in there somewhere, or a few lunch breaks at least ;-)

__________________

1. There are way more people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc, who lost their families and their

2. Why were they smashing it ? What were they mad about ? You don't ever care do you ?

3. It's what is actually happening, so there is that. Funny you can't recognize your countries own foreign policy.

4.Skutch has been doing boilerplate deflection through the entire thread. I've read that sort of filler so often- from knee-jerkers on both the Left and the Right- that it's gotten wearisome.

5. Why is critical thinking a crime in your world ? Do you think people do this sort of stuff for fun ?

6. The book is for profit. Or do you actually believe someone would write a book for fun that wasn't a trust fund baby which are the only people who could afford to.

7. It isn't deflection, it's just incoherent. Let me translate from Skutch to English for you: 'I hate the USA, I hate Western Civilization, I want them destroyed, and I'm in favor of everything that harms them. The USA is evil and has to be destroyed. People like Matt are evil too, because they are trying to prevent the destruction of the U.S.'

8. They are now. What's the matter ? You don't like getting some of your own medicine ?

9. You're not very well informed then. Keep voting and pretending it will make a difference when you live in a plutocracy. I can tell you have no idea what "principals" actually are when you vote for someone who's shunned them his entire life.

10. Why bother ? This is a plutocracy not a democratic republic. The Princeton study proved our representatives no longer represent our interests unless it just so happens to align with the wishes of the corporate authoritarians.

11. No more than you are. I just realize I'm irrelevant when it's time to decide policy. You're too ignorant and full of propaganda to realize your own irrelevancy.

12. Are you a real person, Skutch?

13. Are you a real person Ralph, and if so, when did you stop beating your wife ?

14.And most of them are puppets as well.

15. Then why bother replying ? DERP

16. Your ASSumptions are hilarious and your inability to see double standards typically American.

17. I can tell you are an asshole with a superiority complex but that's to be expected since you're the typical indoctrinated American imperialist.

18. Believe whatever you need to make your little delusional world make sense. Like I said, I'm 54 years old and can work your lazy ass into the dirt any day with no problem. I also don't need to project or make things up to attack you. I just let you prove to everyone reading this thread what a jack ass you truly are.

19. I've just proven you don't care about anything but scoring points for the "team" you believe that you are on, and that there are many more idiots like you that agree with your delusional red team/blue team indoctrination.

20. So now you're going to pile on in true tribal cowardice fashion.

21. Someone should also tell him (her?) not to use the term DERP if he wants to be believable as a 54-year-old.

22. Or you could not judge people, ohy wait, you're a right wing dickhead so that's out of the question now isn't it ?

23. I've worked for 40 years now and could still work your fat worthless ass under the table without a problem. But keep trying, it's amusing to see your need to lash out at someone with an opposing position to yours.

24. Lol “work my fat ass under the table” also clearly a statement by a 19 year old whose never actually had a job. Why you so worked up bro?

25. Looks like I hit a great big nerve there ! HA !

26. Ad hominen attacks only prove you have no point or argument to make and are yet another frothy emotional snowflake caught up in group think.

Just letting you bask in your own ignorance is true justice.

27. It's okay to admit it, I can take it unlike most of the other self righteous fake intellectuals on this site.

28. The fact you can't see the bread and circus surrounding this latest psyop on taking place in the US only shows you're the cancer and that you're too self absorbed to even see yourself as the useful idiot you truly are.

29. No one thinks Biden is going to win except the DNC, fake left press, and the donors stupid enough to only back one side of the (s)election so no one is going to be shocked.

30. Neither party stands for anything.

31. Neither party opposes the looting and rioting in actuality since the RNC is as phony and corrupted by money as the DNC.

32. You really are a stupid bastard aren't you Nick ? No one said anything about communism except your ideologically cult like ass now did they?

33. How so ? Looting and rioting are wrong no matter who does it. It's also a matter of monkey see monkey do for some. Then there are paid for provocateurs and off duty cops who help organize and direct these actions.

Have we not seen this movie before in several other countries. ?

No one knows the truth by design. You'd see unity if there were any truth to be had.

34. Kinda like most serial killers and the biggest thieves in the world are mostly white Americans who vote republican.

35. These psyops are used to keep us fighting red team/blue team and therefore insuring at least a 50/50 split. Then you have inter party warfare and single issue(wedge issue usually) voters.

36. The elite have used divide and conquer for centuries because it always works.

37. I have no problem with that. Sorry to burst your tribal bubble. I also think Trump all the way back to Carter should be held accountable for their action no matter what crooked ass ideology they prescribe to.

And voting for anyone will change nothing.

38. Now you know how the rest of us feel Karen. That goes for both of your accounts.

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DC Reade's avatar

odds-on, Skutch is not an American citizen, and couldn't vote if they wanted to. My guess is that he (odds-on it's a 'he') hails from the UK.

Of course, anyone can claim anything. Skutch says he's 54, even though he writes from the perspective of an alienated teenager.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

I did not initially favor Biden. I wanted Bernie. I agree that Biden will not likely be part of a lot of change. Unfortunately Trump is truly dangerous, as numerous of his associates as well as important Republicans have been testifying almost the whole time he has been in office. Trump must be removed from office. That is a true emergency. Don't you read anyone like David Frum or Jennifer Rubin or Max Boot or George Will, who have been staunch Republicans all their adult lives, as far as I know, and are now bitterly opposed to Trump's reelection?

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Lipo Davis's avatar

They're not really conservatives. They're corporate as kissers and authoritarian boot lickers. They represent constituencies whose vested interests are not aligned with the middle class.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

When did you realize this?

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Lipo Davis's avatar

When Trump rose to prominence on the basis of his strong advocacy for the issue most important to the middle class: immigration

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DC Reade's avatar

I don't buy that "immigration" is the heart of Trump's appeal, or that it's the issue most important to the middle class.

But if it is: Lord, what a bunch of myopics.

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Trollificus's avatar

You say "staunch Republicans all their adult lives" as if that suggests they possess some sort of credibility.

They are all, more importantly, accepted careerist parts of inside-the-Beltway DC. I see these kids tearing things up, and I disapprove. But I understand the sentiment.

Trump pisses off people who deserve to lose, who deserve for the American people to break their toys, withhold their allowances and take away their Armies. To the extent Trump will do that...well, I can put up with him for that service.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

What you wrote there about putting up with Trump for that service sounds honest to me, but I'm not sure just who you mean by these "people who deserve to lose" and have their toys broken. Democrats? Republicans?

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Trollificus's avatar

Sry bout the late response. I mean the entire Beltway-insider, "one-hand-washing-the-other", corrupt, corporate connected politicians of both parties.

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Ralph Dratman's avatar

Soon, maybe. Of course people over here don't want our "own medicine". I've been speaking out against foreign wars since I was about 13 years old. America has laid waste to a lot of the world.

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