This is simply the end of "rules for thee, but not for me" governance, Dems have foisted on Americans. It never occurred to Dems cheering Obama droning hundreds of citizens of nations, on which the US had never declared war, a subsequent Rep President might do the same? Including utilizing a 2nd shot, to ensure the job was done.
Obama single handedly declared people terrorists, and then blew them off the face of the earth, including the occasional American citizen and or collateral child. He was Judge, jury and executioner. Dems lined up for miles to defend him. Now Trump is simply following the Obama playbook, and suddenly the policy is a "war crime and murder"?
Do Dems not realize there exists this thing called video, and it vividly shows them defending Obama, everyday of the week and twice on Sundays?
Nice. Way to go, you Nobel Peace Prize winning piece of shit. I always thought that he was a product of a shit system - now he is a piece of shit, but thinks of himself as "The Shit".
Seems he does. Were the "No Kings" protests in Chicago about his taking over a public park bordering Lake Michigan, paving it over and erecting his electronic Presidential Center, (property tax-free,) despite 5 years of lawsuits different organizations such as Friends of the Parks brought against him?
This is why everyone should be skeptical of ever increasing executive power.
I think Obama was the worst offender. That man thought he was Emperor of Earth and when power is given to the government, it’s basically never taken away,
Would’ve been nice if Congress had any balls and had Obama impeached and removed for violating the War Powers Act in Libya.
I remember well when Obama "extra-judiciously" killed Osama Bin Laden. Though I was not a Bin Laden fan, I asked whatever happened to the "rule of law" that was so energetically bandied about. We were in Italy with a small tour group and saw that news on TV. All the other Americans cheered. My husband and I were quiet. So it goes.
You don't even know that we killed him. Why did we allegedly dump him in the ocean? A trophy as proof of a kill would be the way to go, unless you're lying about something.
I never claimed that we actually killed him. He apparently had numerous body doubles and may have been dead for years before we “killed” him. Who the fuck knows?
Trophy would've been better than the passive-aggressive murder him and then dispose of his body in accordance with Muslim traditions. Like anyone on 9/11 got that luxury.
Even if we did kill him, capture would make much more sense for intelligence gathering alone unless there’s information that somebody wanted kept hidden…
Numerous CIA-et-alia sources were interviewed in Tucker Carlson's recent series on 9/11.
One former CIA employee in particular, Michael Scheuer, was of the opinion that there were numerous opportunities to "kill or capture" bin Laden prior to action taken in 2010. Scheuer said he was mystified why each time they spun up an operation to get bin Laden, it was canceled at the last minute.
I freely admit I thought all those early claims about an "inside job" were crazy but now I'm wondering just what the heck happened.
Why was all the wreckage of the buildings quickly shipped overseas. That seem reeaaaallllyyyy bizarre.
Obama wanted to close Guantanamo and trying terrorists was a legal morass in US courts.
He decided it was better to murder them (and their wives, children and neighbors) than risk having to incarcerate and try them.
I am OK with killing high value targets (though we are then giving up the chance to gain intel), but mass killing sprees without due process and with no transparent, documented after action reports (cataloging damage to innocents) isn’t wise. We should be sure of who we are targeting, have good evidence for their crimes or associations, try to minimize civilian casualties and track collateral damage and results (has assassination weakened the terrorists and reduced terrorism) so we can determine whether killing innocents is worth getting the target
How do you know there wasn't good evidence for the narco-terrorists. The action avoided civilians being injured.
Over 600K Americans have died from drug overdoses, and I see these cartel members as contributing to their deaths. They are choosing this path and the consequences. Let's see if they get the message and do something more familiar like prostitution, gambling, extortion, murder, etc.
That sort of sounds like the Covid virus came from the wet market…instead of the bio lab down the street 🤔. I know mistakes are made, crimes committed, but sometimes things just seem like common sense. They gather intelligence, get voice recordings, fast boat or submersible, using typical drug lanes. If it quacks like a duck…
And do what with him? Stick him in Gitmo where he'd be a well-protected world wide symbol for terrorism? No, we are all better off that he's dead. From a double tap.
Tried him, gathered intelligence, and executed him. I suspect he had plenty of information that would have been useful. As for the whole “world wide symbol” argument, I never bought that perspective. Anybody freaking out about Khalid Sheik Mohammed?
He killed him and then he gave him a Muslim funeral. I never understood that because when you go toe to toe with terrorists/mass murderers you want to show them that when you grab the tiger by the tail you get the claws and the teeth. I would have thought he'd have had bin Laden's head brought to him and stuck it on his desk or fed his whole corpse to pigs as a warning to anyone else that when you FA you will FO.
Seymour Hersh reported on the real story of the killing of OBL. It was briefly disputed (with no evidence to contradict Hersh’s account), and then memory-holed.
In 1989, Joe Biden said, "Let's go after the drug lords where they live with an international strike force. There must be no safe haven for these narco-terrorists and they must know it."
All it ever and always comes down to is to is “Follow the Money”. All this is a way to make someone richer and more powerful. And we all know who those “someones” are. I understand that the City of London and Wall Street are moving to Qatar. When the news or governments say pay attention to “this” or “that” my radar starts looking for what is really happening. Just saying.
The person interviewed said it started with the Bush 2 administration. It actually started long before that, by both parties, with one of the largest, clearest examples being Desert Storm and the “Highway of Death” slaughter. People need to understand that if these kind of methods are excused because “the Dems” or “the Republicans” did it first, then you’re just opening the door for both of the them to use this and even more brutal measures, here and at home, against whomever they wish, while running a slander campaign, if they need to, to make it seem “reasonable” this time. An injury to one is an injury to all, as we say in the labor movement.
Exactly. It's a little disturbing to me how quickly "civilized" people will scream for blood based on little more than government assurances (especially when many of these people don't trust the government at all, except I guess when it comes to killing "bad guys").
It also seems like the diehard Trump supporters are all too eager to trust him and his administration. I find this strange since history shows that the government is NOT to be trusted, no matter which party is in power.
Because the Republicans though we didn’t kill enough people. One side kills and cries and other side kills and laughs, but both sides kill. Perhaps we can try to stop that?
I have to assume he is talking about Dem voters, but there were precious few of those objecting. I voted for Obama and came to regret it, so I was one of the few objecting to it. Of course, I'm not a journalist or someone with any power or influence, but there were some of us. I stopped being a lefty during Obama's time.
Matt and Greg just wrote that Morning Joe, Democrat Leon Panetta and an Independent Senator who aligns w/ Democrats defended this policy under Obama but ululate when Trump is guilty of one instance. You’re telling folks to read a book when you haven’t even read the article.
I think you’re right, but the ‘read a book’ thing made me decide some a-hole turnabout was fair play. And most Dems hewed to the party line. Still, reading is a good suggestion for everyone.
The nom-de-Trek was pretty spontaneous. Told a bunch of brash but well-meaning musician kids they should name their band The Shirtless Kirks. They said it was the stupidest name, ever. A few years later it recycled itself as my user name.
Yes, but those videos we have to hunt for or people here ask for evidence. You will never see them replayed now on MSM. I can’t wait to read all the comments telling up Matt now that’s he’s done an article about Saint Obama!
It was Bush who started the drone strikes you’re talking of, and it wasn’t just Democrats who cheered when Obama carried on doing it, including on US citizens.
As this article and the interviewee makes clear - "The difference between then and today is how openly it’s being done."
Meaning, the only reason we're even having this conversation is that Trump isn't killing grandmothers in secret like Obama and lying about it, along with two-faced scum like Angus King. These are narco-terrorists Trump is killing. Openly. You want to give THEM your sympathy? How about the parents of the dead, thanks to the products these criminals bring in.
Oh, and Matt, when you do your timeline, make sure you don't forget Fast and Furious, where Eric Holder, Obama's AG used American taxpayer money to send arms to these same cartels. Don't forget that, okay?
It's being more "openly done" because we have a press interested in the story. Obama was allowed to conduct secret dronings because the press gave him a free pass generally
Buddy its being "openly done" because Trump and that idiot Hegseth have been bragging about it to anybody who will listen. Like, posting the videos on the "Department of War" website and then throwing around all sorts of insanely monkey-math'd numbers to the same press that you claim is colluding against him when they gave Obama a pass. What are they supposed to do, blatantly ignore the things Trump and his admin (read: press secretary) brag about/tweet/post to the high heavens just because your (biased and inaccurate) recollection was that "the media" (as if they are a monolith) was "nicer" to a Dem president that you hated over a decade ago?
Your point is really important and totally negates any comparison to most other drone strikes. Everyone on those boats is a combatant. And they are “armed” with drugs deadly to Americans.
"You could say [the boat] was a military objective, but from my experience, it was really clear they were targeting the rescuers"
What??? There were no rescuers. The boat wasnt sunk, occupants were trying to reboard. You can very reasonably argue against the strikes in the first place, but the boat second hit is in no way similar to double taps targeting rescuers.
Assuming they were cartel soldiers, which we really don't know for certain. Unless you blindly trust the words of government officials. I do not. That said, I have no sympathy for cartel members if indeed that's what they were. None of us really know for srue though, do we?
Haven't seen any intel from the Trump administration and currently trust no one. So no, I don't know. We live in a time where someone convicted of cartel ties in their home country and affirmed by American judges is nevertheless a solid family guy (with restraining orders). Hegseth's clumsy framing is dumb, even if the hits turn out to be legal. It's only a matter of time before Obama-level errors occur, under full media scrutiny this time. There should be some standard of proof. All kinds of wrong in such randomness. Still, I'm thinking these skiff enthusiasts weren't grandmothers or heroic medical personnel, however it shakes-out. So it remains a false equivalency. To me, this sort of stuff has a whiff of bad faith. We're trying to gin up emotionalism to make a point. It's the mirror-opposite of Matt's appeal to fact and reason.
You know this how? Have you seen the drone footage? Do any of us know exactly what went down? Personally, I don't trust the government to tell me the truth about much of anything, no matter who is in charge. That said, I don't know either, so I'm not saying you are wrong either, because like everyone commenting, I simply don't know.
They blew-up another alleged cartel boat shortly after this and rescued the survivors. Who were they? The Skipper and Gilligan? If nothing else, it shows this isn't consistent policy. Nice to get an incident report, though. These broad powers could feasibly be used to drone Americans at some point in the future, like 'color revolution' tactics were turned on Trump. You think he'd be the guy to realize this.
Probably because all the hoopla about the September hit. This time, the Coast Guard used the HITRON method. I often think about the movie Lone Star where a Afghan young man sees the seal team on their mission against the Taliban. Instead of killing him, because their comments were it’ll be all over CNN, they let him escape. At the end, the seal team gets killed all except one because the young man warns the enemy. I guess it’s easy to sit in the cheap seats.
That's just a slang term for taking two successive shots at the same target, which in many circumstances may be a wise idea. It says nothing about whether the second shot is necessary, or calculated to strike rescuers.
Help! Isn't the predictable result of all strikes death and destruction? I don't understand why the first one is legal if the second one in rapid fire is not as well. Seems to me it's just finishing up the job. It's not a matter of delay to target the rescue crew. Do drug runners even have rescue crew?
I really wish congress would wake up and set parameters. The concept of spontaneous war makes me very uncomfortable.
Yes to your first question. Are you are proposing that there should be no legal constraints on military engagement?
The second strike was 41 minutes after the first one, not really what you might call rapid-fire, while the brave US forces circled above and watched a couple of guys (probably drug smugglers, but we'll never know), trying to stay afloat, and the deciders mulled over the optics of murdering them as opposed to the bizarrely un-Trumpian optics of picking them up.
The main concern of Congress is also optics. The parameters are already set. They just need to be enforced.
I think you just invented a new concept, perhaps to locate a more acceptable space for your discomfort ;-). You're welcome.
I get lost in these long threads, but I just read this and would be interested in your take on Fiery Hunt's comment:
"As I understand it, the 2 "survivors" climbed back in the boat and were observed using the radio. JAG advisors deemed them "still in the fight" and possibly communicating info to the enemy. Declared legal targets and blow to bits.
Not a legal issue.
Period."
Thank you for your responses. You are a main source when I'm trying to figure things out for myself.
No, I'm proposing that they be either rewritten if inadequate to the "new" military, or enforced. We seem to be existing in chaos at present. Congress seems paralyzed while Trump stretches all the rubber bands to the point of snapping.
And no, a delay of 41 minutes seems wholly wrong. I hadn't known that when I asked the question. I guess it took that long to figure out their orders - you know, whether or not they were legal.
Trump is putting the military in an unacceptable position. He did it in Lafayette Square and he's at it again. Political enemies as well are now using the military to oppose Trump.
How do you suggest the US fight wars against non-specific extra-national enemies such as drugs, terror of various kinds? Do you think existing parameters are adequate? I'm not at all sure they are, especially with a congress hors de combat. Laws need to be CLARIFIED and enforced.
I think part of the confusion is conflating a "double tap" (which Bill Befort correctly defines) with a "secondary strike" (ie, a deliberate follow-up attack on the same location shortly after an initial strike, timed to hit rescuers, medical personnel, or civilians who arrive to help the wounded). Clearly, two very different tactics, but used (wrongly) interchangeably by media and lay people.
Of course the media and Democrats are brazen liars and hypocrites. They're not capable of acting any other way.
One point of order - the Venezuelan government is a narco-state which has sent both drugs and trained operatives in the form of Tren del Aragua into our nation in an act of war.. The drug boats are legitimate targets - no different from missiles or aircraft aimed at the US. This shouldn't be difficult. But it is for treasonous, mendacious Democrats, which speaks volumes as to their real intent. They support criminals, drug dealers and illegal immigrants. No real American should be fooled by their lies.
And reading the article and watching the clips that show their lies and hypocrisy. Plus you forget all the hellfire strikes Obama ordered and the attack by Biden that killed the family in Afghanistan. Karen. lol.
Bidens withdrawal from Afghanistan, standing down when they had intelligence warning about the suicide bomber heading for the gate and finally their drone strike on the innocent family with children. Dear God, what a total fking disaster.
Could everyone please go back and watch "Collateral Murder," the video depicting the murder of over 20 Iraqi civilians by a Blackhawk helicopter, that cost Julian Assange 10 years of his life and possibly his sanity to show to the world? That was Americans first direct exposure to the "double tap."
If you/your friends or family have not watched it, they have a moral obligation to do so in order to see what your government, led by the State Department and the CIA do every day on almost every continent.
Thank you. The CIA needs to be cleansed from top to bottom. One need look no deeper than to the sort of lunatics we employed there in the form of Spanberger and Slotkin.
A lot of work done here Matt, to focus on a scheme to take down a president just by asserting a law was broken at the same time a six pack of Dems set the stage for illegal military orders. This rinse and repeat strategy is wearing thin.
Everyone has an opinion, everyone. Are they legal opinions, moral opinions, partisan opinions, or uninformed opinions? What are these opinions all about?
Who says the boats had no weapons?
Who witnessed these double taps?
Who was behind the six Dems pushing military personnel to refuse orders?
I wonder if after the 2028 fraudulent installations of more Dems in the House and Senate, Trump will be impeached as a war criminal.
The stage is certainly be set for it, so when it happens, I can guarantee there will still be no evidence proving this accusation took place unless gifted video from AI can produce a fake.
The first rule of politics ought to be: "Never give yourself a power you don't want in the hands of your worst political adversary." Because, sooner or later, your worst adversary will be in a position of power & control. Modern politicians, and most people frankly, are rarely able to see beyond first order effects in anything let alone second or third order effects. They can't see beyond their noses in wanting to drone their version of "bad guys" that an opposing administration would want to use the same power & the "bad guys" might be different. They might even be the former "good guys" or an American citizen. The press today would be all over the President, if an American was accidentally hit in a strike, but were conspicuously silent when an American was targeted & hit by the Obama administration. In contrast Matt, you have covered this very consistently that this exercise of war powers should not be legal unless explicitly authorized by Congress. The checks & balances were put in there by brilliant and prescient men attuned to excess exercise of the unfettered power of the state. We ignore those checks & balances at our own peril.
Congress writes laws like the Patriot Act that confers (defers?) war powers to the Executive branch. These often ignore the Checks and Balances our Founders created. Then the Courts say, 'no standing' when citizens say WTF? Sure seems like all branches of our government could use more ongoing, US Civics refresher courses.
I can not believe this. I just read actual journalism where the facts are layed out clearly and without a narrative that smears the other side. So the United States has been employing the technique of a double strike for at least 20 years and now it’s an outrage. Give me a break just confirms once again that there is nothing the MSM will not lie about to smear Trump.
As far as I can tell, they are not lying about the basic story, so it's not a smear on Trump, it's just the truth of what happened. The current drama and hypocrisy doesn't change the fact that our military killed people without war, trial, or evidence presented, and apparently deliberately targeted the survivors of the initial strike. While Trump was commander in chief. Just because it also happened under other presidents doesn't make it okay.
I mean ... my outrage button is pretty much broken. I was shocked when the Bush admin came on tv and said trials aren't needed and torture is great. I was outraged when Obama decided that the president had the unilateral right to assassinate American citizens. I read the stories of the Obama admin targeting weddings and rescue workers. Now ... another president, another mass murderer, nothing new.
I'm a bit baffled by the current media outrage when they never had a single problem with any of this under our previous presidents. My jaw's still on the floor at the amazing hypocrisy of people like John Yoo. But eh, if this drama leads to reining in any president's power to kill people at his whim, I'll absolutely take it. I doubt anything worthwhile will come of this, but truly, people SHOULD be outraged. They also should have been outraged 20 years ago, and all the time in between. A lot of the current outrage is obviously fake because it's just anti-Trump, but I can always dream that maybe the current story will lead to a general reassessment of the wisdom of believing our government anytime they tell us they really need to kill those terrible bad people, and there's no need to bother with pesky things like arrests and trials and rules of war. While I'm dreaming, I'd like to prosecute Hegseth, Trump, Obama, Yoo, and everyone else who decided that they are entitled to commit murder and torture.
I don't need a pony for Christmas, though, that's okay.
My feelings as well. Sadly, I think it's a pipe dream because people have become way too tribal for the reasonable and sensible things you ask for to actually happen. If people would just realize that we don't have to pick between two authoritarian options at every election, maybe things might change. But I doubt it.
Don’t kid yourself. They don’t want to change the game, they just want to get Trump. It would be nice to think perhaps the outrage and even bringing up the past will make congress have some sort of epiphany, but it won’t . The left wants to crucify Trump and the right wants to save him. Hence, nothing will be done.
I appreciate Matt's sincere professional endeavors to report all news stories as fairly, evenly, honesty, leaving out the extreme political bias that has become the norm in most other news media organizations. But it seems the larger story with much greater significance is the deeper story that repeats itself in most everything Matt has written and talked about. I refer to the story of double standards, of hypocrisy, of extreme bias, of the change in the news media that has created this very dangerous landscape we now live in, where the news media has abandoned all efforts to report news in any sort of fair and unbiased form, but has made it clear to anyone paying any attention at all that they instead work exclusively, with a universal single minded intent to support of the Democratic Party. "Democracy dies in darkness". That's where we are. The public can no longer rely on the news media to provide them with truthful information. This is the greatest threat to our democracy. This is the bigger story. A democracy depends on the voters having access to straight honest news that is not controlled by the extreme political bias that currently exists.
While congress prepares to make sure we can't access unbiased news by introducing age verification, real ID, and so many other privacy erasing policies. It's moving slower here than in Europe and other western nations, but it's happening nonetheless.
Completely agree Mike. While I admire Matt's professionalism and clear intent to report all the news as honestly and accurately as possible, I also feel that by doing so he is unintentionally supporting the carefully crafted narrative of the democrats. It was no accident that they first released the don't give up the ship video, which dominated the news cycle, then this story of the second strike appears, long after it happened. The democrats strategy never changes, it's always focused some Trump criticism. It's meant to distract and it works extremely well. What would be more important to the average American; the legal minutiae of Trump's military use to stop lethal narcotics from killing our citizens?, or the fraud and corruption that was USAID, the Minnesota tax dollar theft, SS numbers and benefits to illegals, democrats promoting resistance to law enforcement and suggesting our military and intelligence personnel actively question their superiors directions, school systems stepping on the rights of parents, the censorship that existed under Biden and as you point out is so very likely to return, etc etc. In other words (as Walter would say), are Americans really as concerned with this, as they are with how their tax dollars are being stolen and how their rights are being lost?
The difference between Obama and Trump double-taps is even more dripping with hypocrisy considering that every person in the drug boat was guilty of terrorism activities, but Obama knowingly butchered innocent people in attendance.
Obama's actions fed the Middle East hate of America from even moderate secular people living in those countries. I am sure that Trump's policy to take out the narco terrorists is silently applauded by those good people in south and central America.
I have no idea who was in the boat nor what the boat was doing, what it was carrying, or where it was going, and neither do you,
The government thought that hey we’re all worth killing, just like the innocent Afghan family Biden murdered.
What the government believes about the people it kills may not be accurate and I would never take the government’s word for it. There should be congressional oversight of these programs.
If you decide to put your head in the sand or cover your eyes, you can claim that you did not see and have no idea. The rest of us will look and trust our good judgement based on rational and objective reasoning.
Childish comment. It is amazing to me how people have been brainwashed to believe that the least capable people are qualified for political office. You would vote for career politicians that can speak soothing words in your ear to make you feel better about yourself, instead of people that have actually done things in their life outside of politics. The design of our one great country was for regular productive people to take time out of their regular productive lives to serve in political office and then return to their regular productive lives when done. People like you f*ck up the system by stupidly voting for plastic actors that don't have a clue how to make effective decisions and get things done. Life isn't a Hollywood movie you dope.
LOL! What did Trump & Kegstand do in their private lives? Bankrupt multiple institutions they ran and in Trump's case commit multiple frauds and sexual assaults.
Talk about brainwashing - have you *been* to a Trump rally where people nod along to one lie and piece of bullshit after another ("greatest economy in the history of our country"; "I won the 2020 election"; "I solved 8 wars", "I mentally declassified everything": "perfect phone call"; Saudi Arabia is going to invest $20 trillion in the US and my favorite "I'm reducing drug prices by 700%" and on and on. Only due to the resilience of our institutions have the Trumpists not screwed up our country more than they already have.
You are wacked. Seriously wacked. Trump lives rent free in your head. Trump Enterprises employs tens of thousands. I am sure you have zero experience starting and growing any business. You probably live off the soft money of government or mommy's teat.
But you cannot resist the urge to speculate and accuse.
Congress already abdicated responsibility to the Executive 20+ years ago. Not a significant objection during the Obama reign to indiscriminate drone killing of presumed bad actors with known collateral damage. Precedent has been set. A new standard can be declared henceforth, but if it is to be applied retroactively, it should apply to all previous administrations equally.
I neither speculated nor accused- how could I when nobody has any info (other than a boat being struck)?
Yes, active congressional oversight of an assassination program would require a change in the Patriot act, though nothing prevents Congress from calling Hegs and Tulsi in to testify. That is going to happen for sure.
I think these programs have gone overboard, so to speak, no matter which party is in power.
“The government thought that hey we’re all worth killing, just like the innocent Afghan family Biden murdered.”
No accusations? No speculation? Were you there when “ the government” made that decision?
If so, hats off to you. If not then you are accusing and speculating about unknown individuals allegedly deciding that we ALL are worth killing. Not a small statement to be made casually.
Both sides. Whether it's Obama wearing a tan suit or Trump killing 88 people without trial both sides have taken controversial actions. In Afghanistan there was a war winding down and there was an honest mistake. It happens in war. Apple meet orange.
What proof do you need other than 40’ open-bow boats carrying barrels of fentanyl running 1000 hp going 60 mph from countries known to traffic drugs and sponsor terrorism, and heading to the US shores while tracked and videoed by drones to confirm before getting the senior officer confirmation to take them out? What else are those boats doing? Geesh.
And you know they are doing that how? And what if they are? We don’t just execute drug dealers without a trial. If someone is driving a boat across Lake Michigan with drugs in it and you blew them up you would go on trial for murder.
They are not in Lake Michigan. They are running in waters, utilizing routes typically used by drug trade. There’s intelligence, phone taps and conversations. Good Lord.
Really? Then let's see it! What are the names of the people who were killed? Other than the two fisherman from Colombia identified by their relatives, you and I have literally no idea. Neither, in all probability does the DoD. But regardless, since when is the death penalty by hellfire missile without indictment let alone a trial and the penalty for drug dealing? Good lord, indeed!
The difference is that we invented the term "narco-terrorist" so that we could do whatever the fuck we wanted to do to them. With drug dealers, there are laws on how they should be treated.
This is total nonsense. The drug cartels and their operatives are fighting a war against US citizens, who are dying by the tens of thousands. So this is a war, not a parlour game. The only way to stop it is to speak the language of the cartels back to them: anyone who works with you will be killed. Full stop. We take no prisoners. Trump is finally getting the message across to the cartels in a way that no judge and jury trial--with slap-on-the-wrist penalties--could do. You kill Americans, you will be killed. A very clear message that shows we are no longer fooling around.
Maybe it was needed to destroy the vessel and the cargo. That was the mission. Especially when not all the facts are known. Greg Collard points out that this is the only known incident of a second strike so far in the Venezuela campaign. It doesn't look like it's the rule as it was in Obama's strikes in the ME. Maybe we will learn more and it turns out differently, but right now it looks like the second strike was a decision to sink the ship and destroy the cargo.
This is simply the end of "rules for thee, but not for me" governance, Dems have foisted on Americans. It never occurred to Dems cheering Obama droning hundreds of citizens of nations, on which the US had never declared war, a subsequent Rep President might do the same? Including utilizing a 2nd shot, to ensure the job was done.
Obama single handedly declared people terrorists, and then blew them off the face of the earth, including the occasional American citizen and or collateral child. He was Judge, jury and executioner. Dems lined up for miles to defend him. Now Trump is simply following the Obama playbook, and suddenly the policy is a "war crime and murder"?
Do Dems not realize there exists this thing called video, and it vividly shows them defending Obama, everyday of the week and twice on Sundays?
"Turns out I'm really good at killing people. Didn't know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine." - Barack Obama
As reported in the 2013 book Double Down: Game Change 2012
Nice. Way to go, you Nobel Peace Prize winning piece of shit. I always thought that he was a product of a shit system - now he is a piece of shit, but thinks of himself as "The Shit".
Seems he does. Were the "No Kings" protests in Chicago about his taking over a public park bordering Lake Michigan, paving it over and erecting his electronic Presidential Center, (property tax-free,) despite 5 years of lawsuits different organizations such as Friends of the Parks brought against him?
A cowardly piece of shit. There, fixed it for you.
This is why everyone should be skeptical of ever increasing executive power.
I think Obama was the worst offender. That man thought he was Emperor of Earth and when power is given to the government, it’s basically never taken away,
Would’ve been nice if Congress had any balls and had Obama impeached and removed for violating the War Powers Act in Libya.
Like
I remember well when Obama "extra-judiciously" killed Osama Bin Laden. Though I was not a Bin Laden fan, I asked whatever happened to the "rule of law" that was so energetically bandied about. We were in Italy with a small tour group and saw that news on TV. All the other Americans cheered. My husband and I were quiet. So it goes.
I always wondered why the hell we didn’t capture OBL.
You don't even know that we killed him. Why did we allegedly dump him in the ocean? A trophy as proof of a kill would be the way to go, unless you're lying about something.
steven t koenig - I agree.
I never claimed that we actually killed him. He apparently had numerous body doubles and may have been dead for years before we “killed” him. Who the fuck knows?
The "you" in my comment should have been "we". It wasn't directed at you personally.
Thanks, I found that a little confusing as a response to my post. Agreed.
Trophy would've been better than the passive-aggressive murder him and then dispose of his body in accordance with Muslim traditions. Like anyone on 9/11 got that luxury.
Um, no need for a full body trophy. The CIA already had Osama's DNA which they applied during "vaccinations" to search for relatives.
Even if we did kill him, capture would make much more sense for intelligence gathering alone unless there’s information that somebody wanted kept hidden…
Numerous CIA-et-alia sources were interviewed in Tucker Carlson's recent series on 9/11.
One former CIA employee in particular, Michael Scheuer, was of the opinion that there were numerous opportunities to "kill or capture" bin Laden prior to action taken in 2010. Scheuer said he was mystified why each time they spun up an operation to get bin Laden, it was canceled at the last minute.
I freely admit I thought all those early claims about an "inside job" were crazy but now I'm wondering just what the heck happened.
Why was all the wreckage of the buildings quickly shipped overseas. That seem reeaaaallllyyyy bizarre.
We have a big piece of the twin towers hanging from the ceiling in one of the Charlottesville, VA fire stations for some reason. Super weird. Morbid.
He might have been a source of information that the powers did not want disseminated.
Yeah, he started as a CIA asset, didn’t he?
Yes, the CIA provided him with Stinger hand held anti-aircraft missile launchers that they used in their fight against the Soviets back in 79-80.
I've heard that.
🛎️🔨
Maybe he knew Obama to be a Muslim that wanted death to America.
Perhaps
BTW, Bin Laden was taken down by a surgical “invasion” of Pakistan. He was wasn’t killed on the high seas, just buried there.
In accordance with Muslim traditions.
Ha! Burial at sea a muslim tradition. Really.
The body was prepared for burial in accordance with Muslim traditions. Look up dafn f'il-bahr.
That’s what the official story says…
Obama wanted to close Guantanamo and trying terrorists was a legal morass in US courts.
He decided it was better to murder them (and their wives, children and neighbors) than risk having to incarcerate and try them.
I am OK with killing high value targets (though we are then giving up the chance to gain intel), but mass killing sprees without due process and with no transparent, documented after action reports (cataloging damage to innocents) isn’t wise. We should be sure of who we are targeting, have good evidence for their crimes or associations, try to minimize civilian casualties and track collateral damage and results (has assassination weakened the terrorists and reduced terrorism) so we can determine whether killing innocents is worth getting the target
How do you know there wasn't good evidence for the narco-terrorists. The action avoided civilians being injured.
Over 600K Americans have died from drug overdoses, and I see these cartel members as contributing to their deaths. They are choosing this path and the consequences. Let's see if they get the message and do something more familiar like prostitution, gambling, extortion, murder, etc.
I have no idea who was in the boat nor what their associations and transgressions were nor what evidence we had against them, and never said I did.
None of us knows.
That sort of sounds like the Covid virus came from the wet market…instead of the bio lab down the street 🤔. I know mistakes are made, crimes committed, but sometimes things just seem like common sense. They gather intelligence, get voice recordings, fast boat or submersible, using typical drug lanes. If it quacks like a duck…
Is that what cynical politician Obama truly believed? I seriously doubt that. Who the fuck knows what he actually believes in. Power?
And do what with him? Stick him in Gitmo where he'd be a well-protected world wide symbol for terrorism? No, we are all better off that he's dead. From a double tap.
Tried him, gathered intelligence, and executed him. I suspect he had plenty of information that would have been useful. As for the whole “world wide symbol” argument, I never bought that perspective. Anybody freaking out about Khalid Sheik Mohammed?
Should've thrown his body into a pig pen as a warning to others.
BTW your early eighties albums are great.
lol lets see how you feel when the shoe is on your foot.
Well, since I don't run around bombing shit I'm probably not gonna have to worry about that
Touché Steven!
I think you’ve replied to a bot.
You are American correct? Remember 9/11?
He killed him and then he gave him a Muslim funeral. I never understood that because when you go toe to toe with terrorists/mass murderers you want to show them that when you grab the tiger by the tail you get the claws and the teeth. I would have thought he'd have had bin Laden's head brought to him and stuck it on his desk or fed his whole corpse to pigs as a warning to anyone else that when you FA you will FO.
Most of that sounds like a pretty good plan, but, a Muslim funeral? I don't think they know how to fly helicopters
Seymour Hersh reported on the real story of the killing of OBL. It was briefly disputed (with no evidence to contradict Hersh’s account), and then memory-holed.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
thumbs up
In 1989, Joe Biden said, "Let's go after the drug lords where they live with an international strike force. There must be no safe haven for these narco-terrorists and they must know it."
Here’s that video: https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1996308495105196037
All it ever and always comes down to is to is “Follow the Money”. All this is a way to make someone richer and more powerful. And we all know who those “someones” are. I understand that the City of London and Wall Street are moving to Qatar. When the news or governments say pay attention to “this” or “that” my radar starts looking for what is really happening. Just saying.
Dems, it seems, are only aware and devoted to current narratives; Factual and/or past narratives excluded, of course.
The person interviewed said it started with the Bush 2 administration. It actually started long before that, by both parties, with one of the largest, clearest examples being Desert Storm and the “Highway of Death” slaughter. People need to understand that if these kind of methods are excused because “the Dems” or “the Republicans” did it first, then you’re just opening the door for both of the them to use this and even more brutal measures, here and at home, against whomever they wish, while running a slander campaign, if they need to, to make it seem “reasonable” this time. An injury to one is an injury to all, as we say in the labor movement.
Exactly. It's a little disturbing to me how quickly "civilized" people will scream for blood based on little more than government assurances (especially when many of these people don't trust the government at all, except I guess when it comes to killing "bad guys").
It also seems like the diehard Trump supporters are all too eager to trust him and his administration. I find this strange since history shows that the government is NOT to be trusted, no matter which party is in power.
Many on the left were openly critical of Obamas drone wars. Read a book.
Guess I missed the democrat impeachment hearings on that
Because the Republicans though we didn’t kill enough people. One side kills and cries and other side kills and laughs, but both sides kill. Perhaps we can try to stop that?
Sorry, who's laughing? Hillary and Obama? didn't they make jokes about Libya? leave the embassy hanging?
You must listen to Joe and Mikka, No one is more cavalier about killing than democrats.
Repeat after me. Democrat motto, I love mankind, it's people I can't stank
Do you think the Republicans are better on this? Trump is right now engaging in open piracy. One might consider objecting to that.
It was the reason I stopped being a lefty. Obama's Presidency removed my illusions about the the Dems being the "better" party.
Gee, thanks for the advice, Kyle
Which Democratic Party fluffer in the MSM accused him of committing war crimes, much less murder?
Excellent use of fluffer.
I have to assume he is talking about Dem voters, but there were precious few of those objecting. I voted for Obama and came to regret it, so I was one of the few objecting to it. Of course, I'm not a journalist or someone with any power or influence, but there were some of us. I stopped being a lefty during Obama's time.
Matt and Greg just wrote that Morning Joe, Democrat Leon Panetta and an Independent Senator who aligns w/ Democrats defended this policy under Obama but ululate when Trump is guilty of one instance. You’re telling folks to read a book when you haven’t even read the article.
I think he was saying that we shouldn't say NO Democrats were opposed, that there were some. Clearly not enough.
BTW...that's a....great....handle Captain. (My ill-advised attempt to type what staccato spoken words would look like.)
Also. Your reply was. Very. Shatneresque.
I think you’re right, but the ‘read a book’ thing made me decide some a-hole turnabout was fair play. And most Dems hewed to the party line. Still, reading is a good suggestion for everyone.
The nom-de-Trek was pretty spontaneous. Told a bunch of brash but well-meaning musician kids they should name their band The Shirtless Kirks. They said it was the stupidest name, ever. A few years later it recycled itself as my user name.
Fair point. And those kids in the band lost out.
Yes, but those videos we have to hunt for or people here ask for evidence. You will never see them replayed now on MSM. I can’t wait to read all the comments telling up Matt now that’s he’s done an article about Saint Obama!
It was Bush who started the drone strikes you’re talking of, and it wasn’t just Democrats who cheered when Obama carried on doing it, including on US citizens.
As this article and the interviewee makes clear - "The difference between then and today is how openly it’s being done."
Meaning, the only reason we're even having this conversation is that Trump isn't killing grandmothers in secret like Obama and lying about it, along with two-faced scum like Angus King. These are narco-terrorists Trump is killing. Openly. You want to give THEM your sympathy? How about the parents of the dead, thanks to the products these criminals bring in.
Oh, and Matt, when you do your timeline, make sure you don't forget Fast and Furious, where Eric Holder, Obama's AG used American taxpayer money to send arms to these same cartels. Don't forget that, okay?
It's being more "openly done" because we have a press interested in the story. Obama was allowed to conduct secret dronings because the press gave him a free pass generally
🎯
Calling out Obama didn’t fit the narrative.
Attacking Trump IS the narrative.
It’s the only narrative.
Exactly.
Buddy its being "openly done" because Trump and that idiot Hegseth have been bragging about it to anybody who will listen. Like, posting the videos on the "Department of War" website and then throwing around all sorts of insanely monkey-math'd numbers to the same press that you claim is colluding against him when they gave Obama a pass. What are they supposed to do, blatantly ignore the things Trump and his admin (read: press secretary) brag about/tweet/post to the high heavens just because your (biased and inaccurate) recollection was that "the media" (as if they are a monolith) was "nicer" to a Dem president that you hated over a decade ago?
Another big difference is in the open ocean there is no collateral damage, just the narco-terrorists.
Your point is really important and totally negates any comparison to most other drone strikes. Everyone on those boats is a combatant. And they are “armed” with drugs deadly to Americans.
And the risk of collateral damage is nil.
I didn’t know about that. Thanks.
"You could say [the boat] was a military objective, but from my experience, it was really clear they were targeting the rescuers"
What??? There were no rescuers. The boat wasnt sunk, occupants were trying to reboard. You can very reasonably argue against the strikes in the first place, but the boat second hit is in no way similar to double taps targeting rescuers.
This seems plain to me too.
Maybe the rules need to be rewritten for a new age. Battlefields look more like special effects than anything real.
Yeah, likening cartel soldiers to grandmothers and medical personnel murdered while trying to collect the dead is a huge false equivalency.
Assuming they were cartel soldiers, which we really don't know for certain. Unless you blindly trust the words of government officials. I do not. That said, I have no sympathy for cartel members if indeed that's what they were. None of us really know for srue though, do we?
Haven't seen any intel from the Trump administration and currently trust no one. So no, I don't know. We live in a time where someone convicted of cartel ties in their home country and affirmed by American judges is nevertheless a solid family guy (with restraining orders). Hegseth's clumsy framing is dumb, even if the hits turn out to be legal. It's only a matter of time before Obama-level errors occur, under full media scrutiny this time. There should be some standard of proof. All kinds of wrong in such randomness. Still, I'm thinking these skiff enthusiasts weren't grandmothers or heroic medical personnel, however it shakes-out. So it remains a false equivalency. To me, this sort of stuff has a whiff of bad faith. We're trying to gin up emotionalism to make a point. It's the mirror-opposite of Matt's appeal to fact and reason.
You know this how? Have you seen the drone footage? Do any of us know exactly what went down? Personally, I don't trust the government to tell me the truth about much of anything, no matter who is in charge. That said, I don't know either, so I'm not saying you are wrong either, because like everyone commenting, I simply don't know.
They blew-up another alleged cartel boat shortly after this and rescued the survivors. Who were they? The Skipper and Gilligan? If nothing else, it shows this isn't consistent policy. Nice to get an incident report, though. These broad powers could feasibly be used to drone Americans at some point in the future, like 'color revolution' tactics were turned on Trump. You think he'd be the guy to realize this.
Probably because all the hoopla about the September hit. This time, the Coast Guard used the HITRON method. I often think about the movie Lone Star where a Afghan young man sees the seal team on their mission against the Taliban. Instead of killing him, because their comments were it’ll be all over CNN, they let him escape. At the end, the seal team gets killed all except one because the young man warns the enemy. I guess it’s easy to sit in the cheap seats.
And even this course of events is a rumor.
It is certainly a misstatement, but a double tap is still a double tap.
That's just a slang term for taking two successive shots at the same target, which in many circumstances may be a wise idea. It says nothing about whether the second shot is necessary, or calculated to strike rescuers.
One may attempt to characterize it as a "slang term" but it remains an illegal act when the result is predictably obvious.
Help! Isn't the predictable result of all strikes death and destruction? I don't understand why the first one is legal if the second one in rapid fire is not as well. Seems to me it's just finishing up the job. It's not a matter of delay to target the rescue crew. Do drug runners even have rescue crew?
I really wish congress would wake up and set parameters. The concept of spontaneous war makes me very uncomfortable.
Yes to your first question. Are you are proposing that there should be no legal constraints on military engagement?
The second strike was 41 minutes after the first one, not really what you might call rapid-fire, while the brave US forces circled above and watched a couple of guys (probably drug smugglers, but we'll never know), trying to stay afloat, and the deciders mulled over the optics of murdering them as opposed to the bizarrely un-Trumpian optics of picking them up.
The main concern of Congress is also optics. The parameters are already set. They just need to be enforced.
I think you just invented a new concept, perhaps to locate a more acceptable space for your discomfort ;-). You're welcome.
I get lost in these long threads, but I just read this and would be interested in your take on Fiery Hunt's comment:
"As I understand it, the 2 "survivors" climbed back in the boat and were observed using the radio. JAG advisors deemed them "still in the fight" and possibly communicating info to the enemy. Declared legal targets and blow to bits.
Not a legal issue.
Period."
Thank you for your responses. You are a main source when I'm trying to figure things out for myself.
No, I'm proposing that they be either rewritten if inadequate to the "new" military, or enforced. We seem to be existing in chaos at present. Congress seems paralyzed while Trump stretches all the rubber bands to the point of snapping.
And no, a delay of 41 minutes seems wholly wrong. I hadn't known that when I asked the question. I guess it took that long to figure out their orders - you know, whether or not they were legal.
Trump is putting the military in an unacceptable position. He did it in Lafayette Square and he's at it again. Political enemies as well are now using the military to oppose Trump.
How do you suggest the US fight wars against non-specific extra-national enemies such as drugs, terror of various kinds? Do you think existing parameters are adequate? I'm not at all sure they are, especially with a congress hors de combat. Laws need to be CLARIFIED and enforced.
Really ? Like a cigar is just a cigar? FFS
I think part of the confusion is conflating a "double tap" (which Bill Befort correctly defines) with a "secondary strike" (ie, a deliberate follow-up attack on the same location shortly after an initial strike, timed to hit rescuers, medical personnel, or civilians who arrive to help the wounded). Clearly, two very different tactics, but used (wrongly) interchangeably by media and lay people.
Of course the media and Democrats are brazen liars and hypocrites. They're not capable of acting any other way.
One point of order - the Venezuelan government is a narco-state which has sent both drugs and trained operatives in the form of Tren del Aragua into our nation in an act of war.. The drug boats are legitimate targets - no different from missiles or aircraft aimed at the US. This shouldn't be difficult. But it is for treasonous, mendacious Democrats, which speaks volumes as to their real intent. They support criminals, drug dealers and illegal immigrants. No real American should be fooled by their lies.
And you know this how?
By opening his fucking eyes and using his brain.
And reading the article and watching the clips that show their lies and hypocrisy. Plus you forget all the hellfire strikes Obama ordered and the attack by Biden that killed the family in Afghanistan. Karen. lol.
So Biden and Obama’s attacks were correct and justified?
Some of Obama's were. Some not. Biden was a joke.
Bidens withdrawal from Afghanistan, standing down when they had intelligence warning about the suicide bomber heading for the gate and finally their drone strike on the innocent family with children. Dear God, what a total fking disaster.
Leon Panetta lecturing us about war crimes.... that's a little hard to take.
Leon Panetta continuing to use up oxygen that could be used by people actually trying to make a difference...that's continuingly hard to take.
Could everyone please go back and watch "Collateral Murder," the video depicting the murder of over 20 Iraqi civilians by a Blackhawk helicopter, that cost Julian Assange 10 years of his life and possibly his sanity to show to the world? That was Americans first direct exposure to the "double tap."
If you/your friends or family have not watched it, they have a moral obligation to do so in order to see what your government, led by the State Department and the CIA do every day on almost every continent.
Should anyone be surprised that a key organizer of the Seditious Six is also a CIA alum?
This old article has been memory-holed, please circulate it widely-
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/their-new-mission-foil-trump-ex-intelligence-officials-run-congress-n907291
Thank you. The CIA needs to be cleansed from top to bottom. One need look no deeper than to the sort of lunatics we employed there in the form of Spanberger and Slotkin.
Great, now their governing states or governing the country
You're right.
After watching it I realized I had seen it before, but had sadly forgotten.
I can still see that video just as plainly as viewing it right now.
A lot of work done here Matt, to focus on a scheme to take down a president just by asserting a law was broken at the same time a six pack of Dems set the stage for illegal military orders. This rinse and repeat strategy is wearing thin.
Everyone has an opinion, everyone. Are they legal opinions, moral opinions, partisan opinions, or uninformed opinions? What are these opinions all about?
Who says the boats had no weapons?
Who witnessed these double taps?
Who was behind the six Dems pushing military personnel to refuse orders?
I wonder if after the 2028 fraudulent installations of more Dems in the House and Senate, Trump will be impeached as a war criminal.
The stage is certainly be set for it, so when it happens, I can guarantee there will still be no evidence proving this accusation took place unless gifted video from AI can produce a fake.
All great questions.
The first rule of politics ought to be: "Never give yourself a power you don't want in the hands of your worst political adversary." Because, sooner or later, your worst adversary will be in a position of power & control. Modern politicians, and most people frankly, are rarely able to see beyond first order effects in anything let alone second or third order effects. They can't see beyond their noses in wanting to drone their version of "bad guys" that an opposing administration would want to use the same power & the "bad guys" might be different. They might even be the former "good guys" or an American citizen. The press today would be all over the President, if an American was accidentally hit in a strike, but were conspicuously silent when an American was targeted & hit by the Obama administration. In contrast Matt, you have covered this very consistently that this exercise of war powers should not be legal unless explicitly authorized by Congress. The checks & balances were put in there by brilliant and prescient men attuned to excess exercise of the unfettered power of the state. We ignore those checks & balances at our own peril.
Congress writes laws like the Patriot Act that confers (defers?) war powers to the Executive branch. These often ignore the Checks and Balances our Founders created. Then the Courts say, 'no standing' when citizens say WTF? Sure seems like all branches of our government could use more ongoing, US Civics refresher courses.
What Congress gives, Congress can take away. But they seem to forget that, as well as their responsibility of responsible oversight.
Congress has become a collection of empty suits. Why do we vote for this?
I once described someone as an empty suit posing as a genuflecting supplicant. That might be a good description of a fair number of politicos.
You're right. But the rule seems to be "Don't worry. We will be in power forever."
The powers behind the thrones of the puppets (I had hoped Trump would not be one) ARE in power forever.
Perhaps, but there are factions within said powers…
I wish they would make themselves more apparent with more infighting that could result in positive gains for the people.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
That certainly seems to be it, doesn't it?!? How shockingly stupid! And it really is stupid not simply short-sighted.
I can not believe this. I just read actual journalism where the facts are layed out clearly and without a narrative that smears the other side. So the United States has been employing the technique of a double strike for at least 20 years and now it’s an outrage. Give me a break just confirms once again that there is nothing the MSM will not lie about to smear Trump.
As far as I can tell, they are not lying about the basic story, so it's not a smear on Trump, it's just the truth of what happened. The current drama and hypocrisy doesn't change the fact that our military killed people without war, trial, or evidence presented, and apparently deliberately targeted the survivors of the initial strike. While Trump was commander in chief. Just because it also happened under other presidents doesn't make it okay.
I mean ... my outrage button is pretty much broken. I was shocked when the Bush admin came on tv and said trials aren't needed and torture is great. I was outraged when Obama decided that the president had the unilateral right to assassinate American citizens. I read the stories of the Obama admin targeting weddings and rescue workers. Now ... another president, another mass murderer, nothing new.
I'm a bit baffled by the current media outrage when they never had a single problem with any of this under our previous presidents. My jaw's still on the floor at the amazing hypocrisy of people like John Yoo. But eh, if this drama leads to reining in any president's power to kill people at his whim, I'll absolutely take it. I doubt anything worthwhile will come of this, but truly, people SHOULD be outraged. They also should have been outraged 20 years ago, and all the time in between. A lot of the current outrage is obviously fake because it's just anti-Trump, but I can always dream that maybe the current story will lead to a general reassessment of the wisdom of believing our government anytime they tell us they really need to kill those terrible bad people, and there's no need to bother with pesky things like arrests and trials and rules of war. While I'm dreaming, I'd like to prosecute Hegseth, Trump, Obama, Yoo, and everyone else who decided that they are entitled to commit murder and torture.
I don't need a pony for Christmas, though, that's okay.
My feelings as well. Sadly, I think it's a pipe dream because people have become way too tribal for the reasonable and sensible things you ask for to actually happen. If people would just realize that we don't have to pick between two authoritarian options at every election, maybe things might change. But I doubt it.
Don’t kid yourself. They don’t want to change the game, they just want to get Trump. It would be nice to think perhaps the outrage and even bringing up the past will make congress have some sort of epiphany, but it won’t . The left wants to crucify Trump and the right wants to save him. Hence, nothing will be done.
John Yoo, the author of the torture memo??? Amazing. I think we've run out of adjectives and superlatives for this kind of hypocrisy.
I appreciate Matt's sincere professional endeavors to report all news stories as fairly, evenly, honesty, leaving out the extreme political bias that has become the norm in most other news media organizations. But it seems the larger story with much greater significance is the deeper story that repeats itself in most everything Matt has written and talked about. I refer to the story of double standards, of hypocrisy, of extreme bias, of the change in the news media that has created this very dangerous landscape we now live in, where the news media has abandoned all efforts to report news in any sort of fair and unbiased form, but has made it clear to anyone paying any attention at all that they instead work exclusively, with a universal single minded intent to support of the Democratic Party. "Democracy dies in darkness". That's where we are. The public can no longer rely on the news media to provide them with truthful information. This is the greatest threat to our democracy. This is the bigger story. A democracy depends on the voters having access to straight honest news that is not controlled by the extreme political bias that currently exists.
While congress prepares to make sure we can't access unbiased news by introducing age verification, real ID, and so many other privacy erasing policies. It's moving slower here than in Europe and other western nations, but it's happening nonetheless.
Completely agree Mike. While I admire Matt's professionalism and clear intent to report all the news as honestly and accurately as possible, I also feel that by doing so he is unintentionally supporting the carefully crafted narrative of the democrats. It was no accident that they first released the don't give up the ship video, which dominated the news cycle, then this story of the second strike appears, long after it happened. The democrats strategy never changes, it's always focused some Trump criticism. It's meant to distract and it works extremely well. What would be more important to the average American; the legal minutiae of Trump's military use to stop lethal narcotics from killing our citizens?, or the fraud and corruption that was USAID, the Minnesota tax dollar theft, SS numbers and benefits to illegals, democrats promoting resistance to law enforcement and suggesting our military and intelligence personnel actively question their superiors directions, school systems stepping on the rights of parents, the censorship that existed under Biden and as you point out is so very likely to return, etc etc. In other words (as Walter would say), are Americans really as concerned with this, as they are with how their tax dollars are being stolen and how their rights are being lost?
‘Double taps’ were used by both the allies and axis air forces during the WWII bombing campaigns.
Delayed action bombs were dropped with the express intention of killing firefighters and rescuers subsequent to the attacks.
Morality and war are seldom bedfellows.
The difference between Obama and Trump double-taps is even more dripping with hypocrisy considering that every person in the drug boat was guilty of terrorism activities, but Obama knowingly butchered innocent people in attendance.
Obama's actions fed the Middle East hate of America from even moderate secular people living in those countries. I am sure that Trump's policy to take out the narco terrorists is silently applauded by those good people in south and central America.
I have no idea who was in the boat nor what the boat was doing, what it was carrying, or where it was going, and neither do you,
The government thought that hey we’re all worth killing, just like the innocent Afghan family Biden murdered.
What the government believes about the people it kills may not be accurate and I would never take the government’s word for it. There should be congressional oversight of these programs.
If you decide to put your head in the sand or cover your eyes, you can claim that you did not see and have no idea. The rest of us will look and trust our good judgement based on rational and objective reasoning.
And tinkerbell!
You're going to trust Trump and Pete Kegsbreath?
Childish comment. It is amazing to me how people have been brainwashed to believe that the least capable people are qualified for political office. You would vote for career politicians that can speak soothing words in your ear to make you feel better about yourself, instead of people that have actually done things in their life outside of politics. The design of our one great country was for regular productive people to take time out of their regular productive lives to serve in political office and then return to their regular productive lives when done. People like you f*ck up the system by stupidly voting for plastic actors that don't have a clue how to make effective decisions and get things done. Life isn't a Hollywood movie you dope.
LOL! What did Trump & Kegstand do in their private lives? Bankrupt multiple institutions they ran and in Trump's case commit multiple frauds and sexual assaults.
Talk about brainwashing - have you *been* to a Trump rally where people nod along to one lie and piece of bullshit after another ("greatest economy in the history of our country"; "I won the 2020 election"; "I solved 8 wars", "I mentally declassified everything": "perfect phone call"; Saudi Arabia is going to invest $20 trillion in the US and my favorite "I'm reducing drug prices by 700%" and on and on. Only due to the resilience of our institutions have the Trumpists not screwed up our country more than they already have.
You are wacked. Seriously wacked. Trump lives rent free in your head. Trump Enterprises employs tens of thousands. I am sure you have zero experience starting and growing any business. You probably live off the soft money of government or mommy's teat.
“I have no idea”; enough said.
But you cannot resist the urge to speculate and accuse.
Congress already abdicated responsibility to the Executive 20+ years ago. Not a significant objection during the Obama reign to indiscriminate drone killing of presumed bad actors with known collateral damage. Precedent has been set. A new standard can be declared henceforth, but if it is to be applied retroactively, it should apply to all previous administrations equally.
What accusation?
“The government thought that hey we’re all worth killing, just like the innocent Afghan family Biden murdered.”
No accusations? No speculation? Were you there when “ the government” made that decision?
From the original comment. How is that not an accusation? Please explain.
I neither speculated nor accused- how could I when nobody has any info (other than a boat being struck)?
Yes, active congressional oversight of an assassination program would require a change in the Patriot act, though nothing prevents Congress from calling Hegs and Tulsi in to testify. That is going to happen for sure.
I think these programs have gone overboard, so to speak, no matter which party is in power.
“The government thought that hey we’re all worth killing, just like the innocent Afghan family Biden murdered.”
No accusations? No speculation? Were you there when “ the government” made that decision?
If so, hats off to you. If not then you are accusing and speculating about unknown individuals allegedly deciding that we ALL are worth killing. Not a small statement to be made casually.
Both sides. Whether it's Obama wearing a tan suit or Trump killing 88 people without trial both sides have taken controversial actions. In Afghanistan there was a war winding down and there was an honest mistake. It happens in war. Apple meet orange.
And we know the 88 people are "narco-terrorists" because what? Trump said they were?
What proof do you need other than 40’ open-bow boats carrying barrels of fentanyl running 1000 hp going 60 mph from countries known to traffic drugs and sponsor terrorism, and heading to the US shores while tracked and videoed by drones to confirm before getting the senior officer confirmation to take them out? What else are those boats doing? Geesh.
What barrels?
https://youtu.be/llivCMKD9bE?si=9esuA-OrxWmMhYnE
I don't see any barrels in that video.
And you know they are doing that how? And what if they are? We don’t just execute drug dealers without a trial. If someone is driving a boat across Lake Michigan with drugs in it and you blew them up you would go on trial for murder.
They are not in Lake Michigan. They are running in waters, utilizing routes typically used by drug trade. There’s intelligence, phone taps and conversations. Good Lord.
Really? Then let's see it! What are the names of the people who were killed? Other than the two fisherman from Colombia identified by their relatives, you and I have literally no idea. Neither, in all probability does the DoD. But regardless, since when is the death penalty by hellfire missile without indictment let alone a trial and the penalty for drug dealing? Good lord, indeed!
Fisherman…just like the sainted Maryland dad. Okay, if you say so.
They are foreign narco-terrorists. We blow up foreign terrorists by law. They are not citizens doing drug crime.
What's the difference between a narco-terrorist and a drug dealer?
The difference is that we invented the term "narco-terrorist" so that we could do whatever the fuck we wanted to do to them. With drug dealers, there are laws on how they should be treated.
Cartels
Leave it to Racket to uncover yet another memory hole. Thanks.
This is total nonsense. The drug cartels and their operatives are fighting a war against US citizens, who are dying by the tens of thousands. So this is a war, not a parlour game. The only way to stop it is to speak the language of the cartels back to them: anyone who works with you will be killed. Full stop. We take no prisoners. Trump is finally getting the message across to the cartels in a way that no judge and jury trial--with slap-on-the-wrist penalties--could do. You kill Americans, you will be killed. A very clear message that shows we are no longer fooling around.
The Democrats ability to distort history is mind boggling.
Maybe it was needed to destroy the vessel and the cargo. That was the mission. Especially when not all the facts are known. Greg Collard points out that this is the only known incident of a second strike so far in the Venezuela campaign. It doesn't look like it's the rule as it was in Obama's strikes in the ME. Maybe we will learn more and it turns out differently, but right now it looks like the second strike was a decision to sink the ship and destroy the cargo.
Great distinction👍
Poor fish!