“Suckage visible from space”. What a great line.

The problem is you are taking this seriously while Scarborough and CNN are not. They don’t give a fuck about anything but ratings and money.

I would try Ashleigh Banfield and her new show/network. She wants a conversation. Give her one.

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You are not correct -- once the scam of the century, Russia-gate hoax, breaks into corporate media the entire corrupt entity will start to collapse.

I agree that Trump was incompetent and silly amateur president who luckily for us voted himself out -- but the DNC leadership, WS, MSM, US security apparatus, HiTech monopolies, etc. joint 5-year and ongoing efforts to remove US president are hugely dangerous and must be addressed.

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I hope you are right but that is wishful thinking

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Wishing and faith are nothing alike because what is faith, Heb 12 faith is the substance of things hoped(prayed) for, and the evidence of things not seen. The very real tangible provided by something you can’t see, unless of course He has something to say or you, and I’ve experienced them all. ✝️

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Brother it’s part of the the machinations put into play In The Beginning. Anyone who has ever read the book of Revelation should have immediately noticed this “trump” due to their importance. It wasn’t him, a complete pos but a clear sign for those who’re watching world events play out, and I’ll even add this that everything in my heart tells me that at least we’ve suffered through our last presidential election because times up. 80% of people right now don’t have access to clean drinking water and nobody cares, but Father does and His hand is not idle. Did you know the Romanov deaths were written about 2000 years in advance in Amos 2: ?

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You are writing pure religious BS -- like some of the worst Trump's religious fundamentalists, charlatans and grifters... ;-))

Insufficient media coverage is on the extent of just how much evangelical fundamentalists (the Rupture End-Time Christians) dominate ALL levels of US government. Corona virus human and economic catastrophe in the US will likely end up being called – the Trump virus.

• Evangelical anti-science idiot, Trump’s VP Mike Pence, has been installed to lead the pandemic fight as Corona virus tsar

• Evangelical Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State insane clown who considers Trump as the coming Christian King

• Evangelical Jerome Adams, now US Surgeon General was the state health commissioner under Governor Mike Pence during AIDS epidemic (he acts like he already “Ruptured” to another world

• Evangelical Bible idiot Ben Carson, Housing Secretary – famous for stating that Egyptian pyramids were built by St. Joseph for wheat storage; always reassuring when he stands next to Trump during our Great Leader blabbers

• Evangelical Robert Redfield, installed to run critical organization CDC (Center for Disease Control and Prevention) as its director in 2018 (he immediately increased his salary to almost $0.5M) decided to develop an American, hence superior test kit (despite that Chinese scientists in a record short time provided full virus genome and Germans and others developed a test kit adopted by WHO).

The new “superior and our” test kits failed and much delayed testing – resulting that in the entire February only 256 people were tested?!? – the crime of a century. Redfield was on a board of the largest evangelical anti-gay organization while for a decade unsuccessfully developing AIDS vaccine (and fabricating results)….

• Evangelical Deborah Birx, White House Corona virus response coordinator managed anti-AIDS international $6.3B fund – like Redfield focusing on – abstinence

• Evangelical Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary and a sister of evangelical Eric Prince (founder of Blackwater – runs Trump’s private army)

• And an endless number of government and military evangelical officials financed by now almost limitless government resources

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You are right about Pompeo and the Pence of idiots but not they thought ever thought that scumbag heathen was anything other than a useful idiot. It was a bizarre freak show indeed. Moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem was clearly an act to create trouble, plus the Arab world will not just do nothing about the Palestinian situation either and that’s a fact. Israel the chicken shits they are just in the last couple days closed off the creek into Jordan, it’s only source of water, despicable, but you also must realize there are players in the game who are not as they claim. They’re called Kenites and they are the progeny of Cain the very first murderer and they work behind the scenes and they sure as hell believe in God because He created Cain’s real father and that was none other than Satan himself as called the serpent. That was the original sin in Eden, Eve was wholly seduced by the devil and then Adam knew her as well and you’ve got paternal twins from different fathers, I happen to be an identical twin. This is scripturally brought forth many times in both OT and NT. They were in the scribes responsible for instigating the crucifixion carried out by the Romans, there wasn’t one Israelite hand involved but because because of the Roman translators that worked on the KJV biblle the Jews are left holding the bag.

I guess enough is enough I’m sure there’s something that we do agree on, my spiritual life aside.

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You’ve apparently haven’t read a word I said with any understanding whatsoever which of course is your prerogative. But I belong to none of the biblically illiterate masses of hypocritical religionists, period. Am I Christian yes, and an ordained minister of the independent Christian church, not an evangelical Lutheran Catholic or baptist. I’m a student of the texts and I use the tools available to all to back to the original Hebrew Chaldean and Greek. This earth as stated is in fact billons of years old and there’s also a reason why it was destroyed to begin this age, unlike the illiterate who think the earth was created in days, same as the lie of Eve the apple and a snake, the pagan worship of Easter which actually comes from Ishtar a Babylonian goddess of fertility hence the bunny and the eggs it’s a blasphemous disgrace how people have allowed themselves to believe in these religionists lies, same as the mythical rapture which Pompeo and pence tried ever so hard to create enough chaos to trigger it, but it’s a total fabrication with out any scriptural backing. I know that most people don’t want or care to hear the truth especially when there’s been so many lies infused into it that they can’t even see the truth. I’m not a preacher but more a teacher and most times I keep those things to myself just because of reasons like this. I’ve always been someone that looked for things that unite us and leave it at that there’s already enough hate mongering without feeding into that nonsense.☮️

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In his note on Rush Limbaugh's death, Matt explained the dynamic set up by feeding your audience the red meat that gets it most excited. The only way to keep the game going is to up the intensity. Eventually you end up in la-la land. I don't understand why Matt wants to engage with that.

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True enough, ratings and money are a goal to simply lie. But also getting political power for the Democratic Party is also a prime goal.

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"ratings and money" as in ad revenue... seems Matt went into this in some detail a few months back, presented with distinct clarity.

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He did but didn’t copyright it

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It's frightening how they simply lie with impunity now. There's nobody who can stand up and stop them, they just keep lying. And if you point how they are lying, you might get unpersoned.

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The Ministry of Truth will be knocking on your door shortly. I suggest that you willingly bend over and cough or they will go with the full body cavity search. Don't ask me how I know.

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That was obviously my cat jumping on the keyboard up there. I meant to say "I've always loved big brother!"

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Cats are seditious little fuckers. Mine has been stockpiling ammo.

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damn, thought that was only happening to me.. plus he surfs porn on my computer and never wipes the browser history.

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So true. Maybe the biggest lie is that they mostly got it right. Really?! Was there a SINGLE Russia-gate story that turned out to be true? Is so, I don't remember it.

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It is good to be an oligopoly. All the money, all the power. None of the downside.

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For the time being. But longer term I doubt the game is sustainable. If they keep ramping up the crazy, as they must to maintain audience, the destination is a credibility level like Alex Jones.

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I think you do him an injustice.

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Trying to engage anyone on MSNBC on the substance of their allegations is futile. They're not here to engage. They will take morsels from your writings to scream mockery, unopposed, to their viewers. Sadly, that's all their viewers want. I always go back to laying blame at the feet of the viewers who actively seek out and support slanted "reporting."

Remember when Scarborough was a Republican congressman? lol.

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Remember when Scarborough was a proud, respected man? A Republican Congressman? Remember when he joined MSNBC as the moderate/conservative voice? Remember when he was married, with a family? Remember when he divorced to marry his co-host? Remember when he changed sides in the debates, became a liberal, attacking Republicans? Remember when he started believing and repeating the lies? Remember when Scarborough was a proud, respected man? Yeah, but that was a long time ago.

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Remember when his healthy young intern had her brain bashed in on his desk in his office?

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And there was large amounts of cocaine involved as well.....

Joe has had a pretty rough time being Joe after dodging all those charges hasn't he ? Makes you wonder if someone(or some agency) is pulling his strings now doesn't it ?

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He doesn't even remember any of that himself.

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A question - perhaps you know:

-- Other than Fox News -- has ANY of the mainstream "elite" media published Matt's challenge to JimS?

-- Any of the coopted/corrupted "independent" media a la The Intercept, TYT's Cenk or Ana, Democracy Now -- any?

Many thanks to all in advance (and with link please).

PS: I love the "suckage visible from space" -- propose for Nobel prize in literature

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I remember the image, but can’t say when it was.

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So despite all of the years (and changes noted), he hasn't really changed much.

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It's akin to directing outrage ad the puppets Punch and Judy for reading their lines.

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Joe may be one of the puppets as well. How else do you skate away from an office full of cocaine and a dead intern ?

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I’m sure he knew Ted Kennedy well from his Senate days-got pointers from him!

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It is also very futile to engage any of MSNB viewers. They just tune you out, put the fingers in their ears and go la-la-la-la-la. They cannot stand their bubble burst. They can't handle any cognitive dissonance. They can't handle any truth.

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I'd pay a fair amount of cold, hard cash to see Matt Taibbi or Aaron Mate debate Joe Scarborough. Is that ever gonna happen? Of course not! Smug, ill-informed, overpaid clods like old Joe would rather have their teeth pulled out with pliers.

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Joe Rogan should invite both of them on his podcast for the debate-it would get way more eyeballs/ear holes than Morning Joe!

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I'd pay for Spotify for that show!

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Me too. Death Cage match on pay-per-view. Tag team with Scarborough and Adam Schiff taking on Taibbi and a second of his choice. May as well get the source of many of the stories - Schiff - on the card.

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OMG. Schiff makes me positively queasy. But yeah - watching the two of them being pummeled into the carpet would be pretty darn great. :)

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Pfff Joe Scarborough would never invite anyone on his stupid show because A: He's just a television personality and B: He's an ignoramus.

He's like a younger Wolfe Blitzer. A talentless hack.

Fuck these douchebags.

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There's not a suckage's chance in space that you'll be invited on.

You can see that they have already adjudicated the issue with the "right more often than not" claim; this allows Joe to set up whatever scoring system he wants, assigning colossal weight to trivial "rights" but few demerits to enormous "wrongs."

If I wanted to trash this newsletter, I would assign a huge level of importance to "structural elegance" and refer to the small handful of times last year you dispatched incomplete posts, and assign almost no weight to the dogged work you do just to make your own posts possible, the content itself, etc.

Why they decided to do this bit at all is a mystery, but it smells of a pre-emptive kind of "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

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As Biden Voter Buyer's Remorse kicks in (and I've seen a LOT of it), there are people wondering HOW Biden could have fooled them.

"I will NOT end fracking." Ends fracking on federal land. "I DEFINITELY plan to end fracking." Allows fracking to continue everywhere else. (Pissing off people on both sides of the issue.)

First thing he did? Cancel a pipeline that was half constructed, putting thousands of high-earning tradesmen and engineers out of work. For NO benefit. The oil's still gonna move across the border. Only question was, is it going to move more safely and efficiently, and with fewer emissions via pipeline? Or is it going to move by less safe and eco-friendly tanker trucks and rail? Biden chose the latter.

Biden gets in, Ford decides to move a new plant planned for 2023 from Ohio to Mexico.

The $2000 checks Biden promised would go out the door immediately took weeks, and suddenly depreciated in value.

"You can't rule by executive order. You need the votes. Otherwise, you're a dictator." Signs 27 EOs as of March 8 (compared to Trump's 15 by March 9 2017), and then supports ending the filibuster, which would give his party total, uncontested control over a 50/50 Senate.

All those rosy cheeked young-uns hoping for $50k in student loan forgiveness? He waited until after he was inaugurated to dash their dreams.

"Crisis at the border? What crisis? How can there be a crisis when I barred reporters from documenting it?"

"It's not a border crisis. It's a border *challenge." Migrant at border, asked if he came because Biden was elected president: "Basically. Basically." Asked if he'd have come had Trump been reelected: "Definitely not."

Now Biden is presiding over hermetically sealed plexiglass "pods" (read: cages) built for 80 people, filled to 800+% capacity *during a freaking pandemic.* And CBP agents have been TOLD not to talk to the press.

"Why would anyone think gas prices are going to rise if I'm elected? That's just Republican fear mongering." Gas prices approach $4/gallon.

And Biden's first press conference? That might have been the first time some voters realized they'd elected a man in the intermediate stage of dementia, and that someone other than the president is running the country.

The MSM used false narratives about Trump and Russia (and a LOT of other things) to scare people into voting for Biden. It worked. Now the duped are waking up, and everyone's covering their asses like mad.

"Well, you know. We were right SOME of the time! And the things we breathlessly reported came from the highest levels--they COULD have been true! Heh heh, pay no attention to that giant sum of money some Russian oligarch paid to Hunter Biden's investment firm. Laptop? What laptop? Why are we even TALKING about laptops! The point is, we did our best, we weren't malicious or even irresponsible, and it's not our fault it turned out to not be true and now you have a lobotomized kumquat as a president. Also, did you know that Fox News is really, literally paid for Russian propaganda? You probably shouldn't listen to those guys..."

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It is a lot to ask to have anyone admit they were wrong and harder for them to admit they were duped. Basically they told them em to their face “ you are stupid and we now will prove it but having you swallow whole this shit sandwich, all the while thinking you were doing a cool thing.” It worked and will be hard to unwork.

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“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

Attributed to Mark Twain. Snopes disagrees, so I am all the more certain it was probably Twain.

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Ironically, most Trump voters still think that they were right and that Trump stood for actual, systemic change and a reset of the corruption that is now - and always has been - part of the life's blood of Washington DC.

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Cancelling the Keystone Pipeline was a payback to Warren Buffett who owns the railroad the oil will travel on. Any costs and deaths from derailment and oil explosions should paid for by Buffett and Biden. I am sure the EPA can cost in the lives lost due to the excess emissions as well as part of their new made up “climate justice” initiative.

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Buffet has been making $$$ off D initiatives for years. Remember when he bragged about supporting a higher inheritance tax and slagged on inherited wealth? Guess who swoops in to buy family companies on the cheap when the heirs can’t afford the price of the inheritance tax-Berkshire Hathaway of course.

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It's not canceled. There are presently 13 states suing admin over stoppage and 1st one in line will win. Biden will claim he tried.

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Well, at least they are consistently horrendous.

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Have you really seen “Biden voter remorse?” I hope you’re right. We need more people to see through the media smokescreen, but I don’t have my hopes up.

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I've seen lots. Much if it is very salty.

What has shocked me the most is the handful of people I've come across who didn't realize he was senile when they voted. It's like someone saying, "okay, sure, I have this grapefruit sized growth on my forehead, but I just didn't realize anything was wrong..." MOST of the people who regret voting for Biden were voting AGAINST Trump. They didn't want to throw their votes away on a third party or write in candidate, or just sit this one out.

Look skyward (a few comments up) to Barbara. No remorse. Kids are drowning in the Rio Grande because Biden announced the gates were open, and she doesn't give a shit. They're packed into hermetically sealed "pods" (read: petri dishes) stuffed to 800% capacity during a pandemic, suffering COVID, flu, head lice, scabies. Biden's administration has banned reporters from going in to document conditions, but it was worth it. Because Bad Orange Man is gone.

She'll happily see her granny turning tricks for insulin money after Biden upped the price, because it got rid of Bad Orange Man.

Barbara is probably in the majority of TDS sufferers. But there are plenty of people who feel like they were baited and switched by Biden.

4.6% of Biden voters polled said that if they had heard about the Hunter Biden laptop story and knew there was merit to it, they wouldn't have voted for him. If that ONE story had gone viral instead of being suppressed by social media and misrepresented as "Russian disinformation" in the mainstream media, Trump would have won with 289 electoral votes.

4.6% of actual Biden voters regret their votes just on that one issue. They might not be tweeting about it, but they're regretting it. They're feeling lied to and betrayed by the media. Why do you think Fox is holding steady while CNN and the other alphabet networks have lost up to 50% of their audience? It's not that the Trump Bump is dead. It's that viewers are comparing what they were told Biden was going to do with what Biden is doing.

The fucking pipe-fitter's union supported Biden, told their members to vote Biden. First thing he did is cancel a PIPEline project that was employing thousands of pipe-fitters. Now he's proposing a mileage tax that would destroy small to medium size trucking companies to support his extravagant, multi-trillion dollar infrastructure bill.

When Peter Doocy of Fox News asks Biden's press secretary when the laid off pipe fitters, welders and excavators will be given better green jobs, she sniffs, "maybe you can present me with a list of workers who are NOT going to get green jobs." WAT?

Mainstream media is hemorrhaging viewers. And print was already suffering despite the Trump Bump. Does anyone recall the Twitter suspensions over #LearnToCode? More layoffs are impending now that Trump's not on Twitter to say outrageous things and garner clicks.

Where are viewers going? My guess is, the former alphabet viewers are going to Fox and the Chris Wallace haters are going from Fox to Newsmax, OANN, Epoch and (some may think this is odd) Sky News Australia.

Get ready for a hard correction.

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ANOTHER unbacked assertion tied to some mystery poll!

"4.6% of Biden voters polled said that if they had heard about the Hunter Biden laptop story and knew there was merit to it..."

Why are you so smart that you can recall figures like this but so lazy that you can't just provide links? WHAT poll? What was the sample size? Who conducted it? What was the methodology?

Come on, Karen. You and your Brady bogeyman constantly accuse ME of being a "pawn" and a trouble to this site, but sifting through your comments just brings up wave after wave of unsourced, unmitigated bullshit. All of the perspective I just voiced could have been avoided, or at least discussed in a rational and informed manner if you actually provided links to these continual ridiculous sounding assertions. And to make matters worse, I don't even disbelieve that the Hunter laptop contents might have actually shifted the outcome of the election, but that's all rendered totally moot because YOU almost certainly think that Pillow Guy and Ghouliani were right and that there was widespread mail-in vote fraud despite a single example of a single fraudulent mail in vote for Biden that wasn't offset by one for Trump. LOL!!!

Stick to Canadian politics or just renounce your Canadian citizenship and socialized healthcare and come fend for yourself in the US. Better yet, since you're so flush from your "oil stocks" (LOL let us know in detail how they perform over the next 10 years), convince your less fortunate friends and family to move here. You implied that your sister might become an American citizen soon. So why aren't you pushing her on it rather than discouraging it? You care more about who she might vote for in the meaningless presidential election than the welfare of her and her family? Speaks volumes, actually.

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I literally just searched for "4.6 biden voters hunter laptop" and got a link providing the source of the poll as the first result. I understand if a particular piece of information is hard to find, but if you're willing to spend the time to spew walls of text here but not even willing to try a basic search before complaining "where's the link?", that says everything about your actual desire for conversation here vs your desire to just argue with people.

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Answer my other questions regarding your either totally ignorant or completely disingenuous replies to my comments, buddy, before I bother continuing to chase your replies around without any actual engagement.

But let's be real. You found this poll and not even YOU could share the link?

GFY punk. You're not here to have genuine discussions. You're here to concern troll.

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Why are you so lazy that you can't use google?

I have a good memory, and if the info is specific enough, I assume anyone curious is capable of finding the source.

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Trump Derangement Syndrome-more potent than Covid!

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I'm having an increasingly hard time talking to my sister. She doesn't hate anything he did policy-wise. She just hates him and thinks he's Hitler 2.0.

She literally told me Trudeau did a better job dealing with COVID than Trump. Trump travel ban on China, Jan 31, 2020. Trudeau travel ban on ANYONE? March 8, after the WHO declared a pandemic. We weren't even doing temperature checks at airports before that, let alone quarantines.

So I ask her, "What's Trudeau done that's so great?" She tells me (I kid you not), "He preordered a bunch of the vaccines." I was like, "Oh, you gotta be kidding me. You mean Trudeau did super awesome on COVID because he preordered a bunch of vaccines that wouldn't exist if not for Trump? You're seriously telling me that Trudeau did better than Trump because he bought a bunch of Trump vaccines??!! Is there a Trudeau vaccine? No. There isn't."

THEN she says Trump is prioritizing vaccinating Americans over people in other countries and that's not fair. I was like, "ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS NOW? He underwrote all of those vaccines with American taxpayer money. He told them, 'stage 1 trials look good? Start mass producing now, and if you have to throw the entire batch out, we'll compensate you with taxpayer money.' How much taxpayer money did Trudeau invest in vaccine development? NONE? You don't say."

After an hour on the phone discussing the actual facts (not opinions), she always defaults to, "but he just says stupid shit..."

Then I say, "like telling people to inject bleach?"

She says, "YEAH! Like that!"

Then I tell her, "Okay. He was talking about UV light therapy. The first thing he talked about was a research project that was underway at Loma Linda, where they use a scope to blast the lungs with certain wavelengths of UV light to kill viruses and bacteria. Then the, "almost like an injection" thing was about using UV light to disinfect the blood. They did that shit in the 40s and 50s to treat tuberculosis, septicemia and other stubborn infections. You do dialysis, except instead of putting your blood through an artificial kidney, you blast it with UV light to disinfect the blood and reintroduce it. They've been literally talking about reviving this since 2017, as a possible strategy to deal with superbugs that don't respond to drugs. The main reason the therapy was abandoned was because of antibiotics, not because it didn't work."

"But he said, 'almost like an injection'. That was just DUMB."

I told her, "It took me two minutes on google to find what he was talking about. How dumb are you that you can't use google? Also, why didn't any of the reporters there ask Dr. Birx (who was present) to explain like a doctor what he was talking about? Why did they instead run with 'Trump tells Americans to inject disinfectant!' headlines? What if this therapy could have saved people, but all those negative headlines scared doctors away from testing it and grant committees away from funding research on it?"

"Well, but he sounds DUMB. Anyway, I can't talk longer. I have to run to the store."

I have had several iterations of this same conversation with my sister. It's sad. Only saving grace is she couldn't vote for Biden because we're Canadians. Although that might change in the near future.

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LOL I call BS. Your sister isn't clamoring to obtain American citizenship unless she's VERY well off and you and her both ENJOY socialized medicine, right? Tell us the horror stories that YOU and YOUR family have experienced if I'm wrong. Then explain how you overcame them with benevolent "best in class" privatized American healthcare.

P.S. you're totally wrong on the whole UV light thing. It's completely unfeasible and in fact was just Trump blabbering BS based on something he was told or saw on Fox News.

"Bill Bryan, an undersecretary at the Homeland Security Department, told reporters during the White House’s daily task force briefing that research had shown bleach could kill the virus in saliva or respiratory fluids in five minutes and isopropyl alcohol could kill it even more quickly."

So tell me - what could the implication to that statement possibly be other than somehow claiming that bleach or H202 COULD be introduced into blood, saliva or "reparatory fluids" as a near-term treatment for a raging pandemic rather than a Biden-esque senile bullshit attempt to deflect from his administration's horrible response - both policy wise and in rhetoric - to the burgeoning and exploding pandemic. Oooooooh a China travel ban.....that doesn't look so important now that we mostly know that COVID-19 was ALREADY in Italy, the US and other countries well before China ever implemented their first (highly effective) lockdowns.

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"LOL I call BS. Your sister isn't clamoring to obtain American citizenship unless she's VERY well off and you and her both ENJOY socialized medicine, right?"

I said she couldn't VOTE for Biden, but that might change. It was a joke about the new election reform bill. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

"P.S. you're totally wrong on the whole UV light thing. It's completely unfeasible and in fact was just Trump blabbering BS based on something he was told or saw on Fox News."

Yes, I totally did not read about research ongoing at Loma Linda at the time, and did NOT read a 2017 medical journal article on UV light blood irradiation.

"So tell me - what could the implication to that statement possibly be other than somehow claiming that bleach or H202 COULD be introduced into blood"

At the time, the suspected mode of transmission was through droplets on surfaces--saliva and respiratory fluid droplets. Anyway, we're never going to agree on this. Trump was spitballing ideas and asking questions. It's what he does. He said at the time that he wasn't a doctor, and that doctors would need to test things to see if they were possible.

I watched that press conference, and I didn't come away with the impression people like you did. Maybe people like you need to be told not to inject substances that haven't yet been tested for effectiveness and safety.

"that doesn't look so important now that we mostly know that COVID-19 was ALREADY in Italy, the US and other countries well before China ever implemented their first (highly effective) lockdowns."

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy. Regardless, it can be assumed that cutting off travel prevented cases. My husband, caught it from a coworker who'd just returned from vacation. The guy returned to work for three days, then took 3 weeks off sick. Where was he vacationing? China. That's three cases (my husband, son and me) that a China travel ban, and mandatory quarantine for repatriated persons, would have prevented.

To my knowledge, we didn't infect anyone else.

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"now that we mostly know that COVID-19 was ALREADY in Italy, the US and other countries well before China ever implemented their first (highly effective) lockdowns."

Are you sure about that? Hint: you might want to check out retractionwatch.com and update yourself on papers that have been retracted or are currently being reviewed for retraction.

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Still waiting buddy. What does how random Muslims deal with pain have to do with anything we're talking about regarding vaccines, bleach or UV light treatments? Seriously....are you going to just disappear after self-owning like that? A link to Muslims feeling pain? LMAO

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Again, what has this got to do with the excerpted portion of my comment you copy/pasted?

"A paper about medical treatment for migrant patients in Germany has been retracted after the authors made unsupported claims that Muslims are “particularly sensitive” to pain.

The paper, titled “Diversität im klinischen Alltag der Augenheilkunde,” or “Diversity in everyday clinical practice in ophthalmology,” in English, was published in Der Ophthalmologe, a German medical journal, in November 2019. It has not yet been cited, according to Clarivate Analytics’ Web of Science.

The original article, penned by ophthalmologists at the Cologne University Eye Clinic, is in German. We ran it through Google Translate to get a sense of its content. The paper begins with a case study of a 52 year-old Turkish migrant, explains how to use smartphone speech translators to overcome language barriers, and highlights cultural differences that physicians should consider while treating migrants. "

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LOL wait wut? A paper about the alleged Muslim patients being particularly sensitive to pain relates to the first occurrence of COVID in certain states/countries, how, exactly? Wrong link maybe?

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I hope you are right but don’t underestimate our ability to deny ANY evidence even if it is shoved where the sun don’t shine. The when they do their fallback line will be “At least I didn’t vote for that warmongering lunatic who would have destroyed the world like he did in his first four years!”

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Betrayal will do that. The look on that young woman's face at the town hall, when she asks him, "$10k in student loan forgiveness isn't enough. Americans need at least $50k. What is your administration going to do to make that happen?" and he said, "My administration is NOT going to make that happen."

Reminded me of that Simpson's Valentine's Day episode: "Watch this, Lis. You can actually pinpoint the second when his heart rips in half."

Perhaps the best L I saw posted on Twitter was Naomi Wolf. "If I’d known Biden was open to ‘lockdowns’ as he now states, which is something historically unprecedented in any pandemic, and a terrifying practice, one that won’t ever end because elites love it, I would never have voted for him."

Because I was banned on Twitter, I asked a friend to reply, "Maybe if you bothered to inform yourself before making decisions, your latest book would not have been recalled and pulped." Referring to this unbelievably gross error (upon which her Oxford PhD thesis, as well as the thesis of the book relied): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uRCcEoGWxs

People don't like being duped. In the case of her book, Naomi was a victim of ambiguous terms, sloppy research and wishful thinking. In the case of Biden, she was the victim of a propaganda campaign. The media she was following didn't tell her the things she needed to know to make a decision she could have lived with, and she is NOT amused.

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Is this like the Trump voters that ignored Trump's declaration in his campaign that "wages are too high ?

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Huh. Did he promise to bring wages down? Because if so, that appeared to be one promise he wasn't able to keep...

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You do your own interpretation of the statement. Elsewise, accuse Skutch of "lying by omission" because he didn't quote the entirety of this or another article to you.


"Real-estate tycoon Donald Trump argued during the Tuesday-night Fox Business Network debate that US wages are "too high" — and he didn't back off the next morning when pressed.

"It's a tough position politically," Trump admitted during an interview on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"We have to become competitive with the world. Our taxes are too high, our wages are too high. Everything is too high. We have to compete with other countries."

Damn right it's tough, because most American workers saw it for what it was. Effective tax rates will always be lowered on the rentier, oligarch/plutocrat class of which Trump is a member. But claiming that wages are too high for the working class is old school Rockefeller dynasty stuff.

Here's another doozy. And another complete hypocritical lie. He's co-opting Bernie's platform to come at Hillary from the left:

"Trump has railed against the tax system for unfairly benefiting "hedge fund guys," and he has proposed to eliminate the so-called carried interest loophole in the tax code."

Reeeealy? So what actually happened when Trump and his team got their tax bill passed? You tell us, Karen - you're a bigger expert on the USA than most of us Americans if your tone is justified and your information correct.

Here's more (and keep in mind this was 2015):

"He also opposes free-trade deals supported by Washington Republicans and, unlike some of his rivals, Trump supports a graduated income tax that would result in billionaires like himself paying higher rates.

But Trump held his ground Wednesday despite "Morning Joe" host Mika Brzezinski telling him that "nobody can live" on the federal minimum wage of $7.50 an hour.

"We have got to do something to compete with the rest of the world," Trump said. "Our country is not competitive anymore. That's why we're losing all of the manufacturers. Now, it's currency manipulation and all of those things that I talked about last night.""

Let's be clear. Trump opposes free trade/movement of LABOR. He is totally in favor of neoliberal policies of free movement of capital. Furthermore, look at the rest of his statement - he's essentially saying that we can somehow re-enter the developing economy realm of child/forced/underpaid labor and yet somehow rebuild a prosperous society that makes THINGS rather than financial "products" and rentier class money makers like real estate, inheritances and what have you by LOWERING the wages of the working class? LOL, it's a joke.

Just like anything you've accused Biden of doing in hypocritical fashion. Take whatever Trump said in the runup to his campaign and the campaign itself and compare it to the neocon/trickle down bullshit he actually implemented - and it's drastic failure in the face of what should have been a more manageable pandemic - and get back to me on why you think Biden "buyer remorse" is a thing, but not for Trump. This should be interesting!

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There's several he didn't keep and he has nothing to do with wages. So funny how the American people have been deluded into thinking the president controls what private companies pay.

Which is it ? Is it the "free market" or does the president set wages ??

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...And wages were on their way up before that so are you prepared to give Obomer credit for raising wages too ??

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Two things about that Wolf comment. One, I was shocked Biden won specifically because of that. Biden is a career politician, of course we all knew he would support lockdowns.

Two, I say covid, a seasonal virus, returns next autumn, vaccines be damned. Wolf's fears will most likely be realized.

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I found it quite bizarre, too, since she's a bit of a conspiracy theorist. She's made a career of "exposing" grand, patriarchal conspiracies against women (The Beauty Myth, etc).

More lately, she's been writing about policing and surveillance, etc. The Plandemic narrative should have been right up her alley, and one would THINK she'd be highly interested in her candidate's stance on lockdowns, but apparently she forgot to look into it.

I'm not too worried about COVID coming back. Natural selection will favor mutations that are as/more contagious and less lethal. Killing your host is like burning down your own house with all your babies inside.

And immunity for viruses that mutate frequently is imperfect, but it does provide some resistance if the strains are similar enough on the surface.

I recall they were close to success in the initial stage of developing a vaccine for SARS-CoV-1, when the virus mysteriously disappeared. My guess is that while no one was looking, a new strain of it that caused only mild, cold-like symptoms (or perhaps a different CoV, but one similar enough) blasted through the population and (fully or partially) immunized enough people against the original that it stopped circulating.

What I find most interesting is, CBC Radio does like 8 hours of COVID coverage a day (feels like it, anyway), and they had on an expert a month or so ago to talk about the new variant out of South Africa that was now circulating in Alberta.

She said (paraphrasing), "on the hopeful side, this variant, while more contagious, doesn't make people as sick." I was like, "no duh, that's how it generally (not always) goes."

So I'm listening to all the coverage since that interview, and what is everyone talking about? They aren't talking about how the new strain is less deadly, ONLY about how it's more contagious. The updates? "Alberta's top doctor is warning that it's too soon to move to phase three of the reopening plan. Experts are concerned that the new variant now accounts for more than a quarter of new cases in the province."


But nope. They want to keep people scared and locked down. Honestly, I didn't think this pandemic was planned, but the more shit like this they pull, the less resistant I am to the idea that it was.

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Yeah, well that's the thing. I agree with you that if it returns next autumn it will probably be in a less harmful form, but that's not at all my concern. Just like this time it is the narrative politicians and media push that could prove most costly. With a spike in "cases" I can't imagine the emotionally compromised Walensky not urging lockdowns, and banjo boy, of course, following in step.

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Um so she was told by Biden to her face in a town hall that he WOULDN'T implement the more "radical" policies currently gaining in popularity on the new left, that's somehow a betrayal? LOL She should have voted for Bernie in the primaries, because Biden NEVER promised or even floated anything like that. Haha.

That Naomi Wolf quote is so completely ridiculous that I struggle to figure out why you think it's relevant to anything. So what if Biden is struggling mentally? Have you ever heard of Ronald Reagan? Do you have the slightest idea of what the President of the United States of America REALLY does, not "advised" into orders and policy requests? And why should I care what a COVIDIOT denier and likely "Plandemic" supporting figurehead like Naomi Wolf says in the first place?

If she was duped by Biden, then by no means does she deserve a place in some sort of mostly imagined progressive pantheon that is, by no coincidence, mostly defined and pushed by the right. Besides, what "lockdowns" has Joe Biden (or whatever puppetmasters we both agree in some way control his administration) enacted so far? You've gotta wear a mask on domestic flights? LOL - But somehow you don't mind being checked for box cutters or expected to wear pants and underwear in public?

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"that's somehow a betrayal?"

Her question wasn't "is your administration open to the idea of increasing student loan forgiveness to $50,000?" It was, "what is your administration going to do to make it happen?"

I can't say where she got the idea from that he'd be open to increasing student loan forgiveness, but the assumption is clear from her question, and the expression on her face when he told her no was, "wait, wut?"

Next thing you'll tell me is that all Biden voters are informed voters.

"That Naomi Wolf quote is so completely ridiculous that I struggle to figure out why you think it's relevant to anything."

It's an example of Biden voter buyer's remorse.

"Besides, what "lockdowns" has Joe Biden (or whatever puppetmasters we both agree in some way control his administration) enacted so far?"

None, because he can't. He doesn't have the authority to dictate to the states. Wolf didn't say anything about Biden locking people down, just that he was open to them. Which means that he will encourage and facilitate them, rather than discourage them.

Evidence of this is in the stimulus bill. Payments to the states are based on unemployment numbers. Meaning Florida (which is open and has low unemployment because of it) will get less money per capita than states that are locked down. It's called enabling. Like when you pay your addict daughter's rent. You're not *technically* buying her drugs, you're just enabling her to spend her rent money on drugs.

"You've gotta wear a mask on domestic flights?"

Apparently, you have to wear a mask on federal property, by executive order. Not that people are adhering to it.

As far as flights go, on large commercial aircraft, it's a stupid rule. Effectiveness of the circulation and filtration in the cabins has been tested, and found to be extremely good. The air in a full cabin is cleaner than the air in the average operating room. Meaning, if you're not sneezing, coughing or speaking (producing droplets), a mask probably isn't doing anything useful.

But as many people tell me, if it prevents even one case, it's worth doing. Which kind of puts your Monday morning quarterbacking on the China travel ban into perspective.

Tell me, are you one of those "if it prevents even one case" people?

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While much of that is true, some of it isn't and other parts lack context. For example, I'm not sure who you're thinking of, but Biden said straight up that "nothing will fundamentally change" (in regards to healthcare and student debt) very early on in the primaries. But you'd have to provide a link to support the notion that Biden EVER promised forgiveness of $50K in student debt. I don't recall him or Kamala saying that ever.

Also, while it was stupid for him to make a statement on the price of gas to begin with, his administration has almost zero to do with the rise in prices: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-gasoline-prices-rising-high-162200876.html

So yes, the $4/gallon talk WAS in fact Republican fear mongering based on an expected uptick in gas prices no matter who was President.

But you also forgot that he put a moratorium on the construction of all border infrastructure that has technically expired, but companies are still on hold and workers idle because of it.

From my own personal anecdotal experience on social media, with friends and family and online, nobody has been surprised at all by anything Biden has done. Besides, you're right - he's probably too senile to even remember what he says from one day to the next.

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Let’s be honest here- Joe Biden is not president. He doesn’t know what fucking day it is. He is not running the country and neither is Kamala and that’s what the cabal wants. Biden is just their Trojan horse that benefited from the orchestrated Trump hate. They just conned people into voting for him because he wasn’t Trump. Did you see his press conference where he says he intends to run for re-election? His handlers must have shit their pants when they heard that.

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Very true, but I think you might be making the mistake of thinking that Trump wasn't also a tool of the cabal, albeit used in different ways. Call it distraction by spectacle whereas Biden is distraction by senile banality and being "not Trump." Either way, the billionaire private finance mafia that controls the western world and uses the USA as its mob enforcer gets its way. The media they own then finds ways to divide and distract the rabble like us so that we don't wake up and demand a say in what happens.

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Not really. Trump is a wild card and not owned by the cabal. That’s why he had to go. I’m not defending the guy cause he fucked it up himself but Biden is the tool.

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Both can be a tool -- it depends which area is doing the work. Finance, Intelligence, CIA, Healthcare Execs, Defense contractors etc.. Trump is/was a tool for media - everyone made money and now look at how the industry has changed so much that it is leaking into other areas: free speech, legal profession, higher education.

Biden just has a different set of owners, and benefactors. They all work the same empire -- and socialize in the same asset classes.

To make small distinctions around these people as if it makes huge differences is a waste of time. The last 8 Presidents have all been Neoliberals (Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Shrub, Obama, Trump, and Biden) - they have deregulated, privatized, and then protected our oligophy machine into what we have now. Trump is a part of the cabal -- its a fantasy to suggest he is not. You do not become President without paying fealty to the cabal and becoming a member of it.

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Trump: "I will not be your tool."

Cabal: "We will use you in other ways. Behold, while we use false allegations to destroy your presidency!"

The Fun Police: "Trump is just as bad as the rest of them."

Did I get it right? Genuinely curious.

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You got the main conclusion right: Trump is just as bad as the rest of them, if not worse.

That doesn't make all the Russia nonsense true, but there's a reason the corporate media and centrist Democrats (and sadly it infected even Bernie Sanders) chose to use that rather than expose the actual corrupt, illegal things that Trump was doing - Namely, because then the curtain would really be pulled away and future Democrat administrations wouldn't be able to get away with it, at least with a straight face.

Canadian, Karen Straughan: "The "cabal" "destroyed" Trump's presidency!"

Did I get it right? Genuinely curious. If so, please explain how and by that I mean exactly what Trump wishes were dashed by the ridiculous Mueller investigation and non-stop blathering about it by the Democrats and media, up to and including the failed impeachment. How exactly was his presidency "destroyed"?

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Probably close enough. Imagining one side is a tool and the other is not is just that. Imagining.

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But I don't think his handlers had that reaction, because they know he will not be the Head Cheese for very long. The only question is, will he be there until the 2022 election, or will he become "unable to serve" shortly thereafter.

According to this morning's news, the Veep is already bailing on being Border Czar. Got to leave her a blank slate for her own presidential run.

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Agreed that the handlers know he ain’t running again. It was just because he went off script and he is on a short leash.

Even Kamala is smart enough to know the border situation is fucked beyond fixing now and she doesn’t want that stain.

Biden will resign within a year having outlived his useful purpose and if I was Kamala I would sleep with one eye open knowing Nancy Pelosi is a heartbeat away from the presidency.

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But President Harris could nominate Donald J. Trump to be her VP, and after Congress approves, resign and he becomes President again! If she waits until January 21, 2023, President Trump could run for re-election in 2024.

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"While much of that is true, some of it isn't and other parts lack context."

Like if someone told someone else Russia didn't invade Crimea because Crimeans supported joining the Russian federation with a 97% vote, but neglected to tell them the Russians were already militarily occupying and running Crimea before they oversaw the referendum in question, and the referendum questions were super shady?

Somehow, I feel I will be disappointed if I read beyond your first sentence. Let's see...

Oh, here we go: "But you'd have to provide a link to support the notion that Biden EVER promised forgiveness of $50K in student debt"

See I would provide you a link, had I claimed he ever made that promise. He just let Democrat politicians and activists talk about the possibility of radical student loan forgiveness without giving young voters the hard no that would have lost him their votes. You don't have to promise it in writing and stick a royal seal on the envelope to have little Suzie believing she just MAYBE might be getting a pony for Christmas. Little Suzie sure seemed to believe it was possible when she asked him at that town hall what his administration was going to do to make it happen.

"So yes, the $4/gallon talk WAS in fact Republican fear mongering based on an expected uptick in gas prices no matter who was President."

Of course gas was going to go back up to pre-COVID levels. It's why I bought super cheap oil and gas stocks when everyone lost their freaking minds over COVID.

But the price at the pump wouldn't have gone up to pre-Covid levels when demand was still low (which it is) unless he hadn't fucked with anticipated supply with his EOs on fracking and Keystone.

Like Mr. Ghost below, my husband works in the sector. The execs assured key management personnel that Biden cancelling Keystone would be bad for the growth of the sector overall, but it would drive oil and gas prices up. What companies can't earn through volume, they'll make up for in profit due to inhibition of supply. Cost per barrel would rise, and cost per barrel transported through existing pipelines would also rise as pipeline companies would have more leverage. Meaning higher prices at the pump, and lost low-level but high paying jobs.

What Republicans were "fear mongering" about was Biden-contemplated projects like a carbon tax. If he goes through with that on top of what he's already done, you poor saps will be looking back fondly on the good old days of the $4 gallon.

How's that for some "context".

"But you also forgot that he put a moratorium on the construction of all border infrastructure that has technically expired, but companies are still on hold and workers idle because of it."

Is that something Biden voters would be upset about?

"friends and family and online, nobody has been surprised at all by anything Biden has done"

Sure. Meanwhile, "They're dropping bombs in Syria right now—and those bombs are kinda expensive for a dude who owes me $2,000."

"Besides, you're right - he's probably too senile to even remember what he says from one day to the next."

Well. Finally, I find myself agreeing with you again. Who do you suppose is really in charge?

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You're insufferable on the Russia/Crimea thing. Crimea river already. But seriously, you do realize that Russia was ALREADY militarily in Crimea right, by the very virtue of them having a permanent lease of the naval port there? It's not my duty to inform you of every aspect of a situation, especially when you started off there - as you often do - with bold assertions stated as incontrovertible facts, when more often than not, they're either outright false, or just the typical US government's and media spin on something.

You clearly don't understand how gasoline is produced or marketed. Please explain, in your own words, how you believe that stopping construction on a pipeline has a direct effect on the price of gas at the pump. I genuinely want you to try articulating that without links or quotes. I know why gas has gone up, but I don't think you do (hint: you can read one of the two articles I've posted in this thread on the matter). It's laughable that Biden would implement a carbon tax that would affect gas prices too. That would be political suicide for him OR Kamala and any centrist Dem who wants to run in 2024.

""But you also forgot that he put a moratorium on the construction of all border infrastructure that has technically expired, but companies are still on hold and workers idle because of it."

Is that something Biden voters would be upset about?"

No, Karen. I was trying to help you with other ways that Biden's policies - the real ones, not the nonsense about gas or $50K college loan forgiveness, or the stuff about the Ford plant - have negatively affected American jobs. Trump's trying to take credit for manufacturing jobs was nonsense BEFORE the pandemic. But don't take my word for it, here's the President of Alliance for American Manufacturing's take.

"In awarding Trump a Promise Broken for his pledge to bring back manufacturing, we also noted that another metric, gross manufacturing output by quarter, found nothing special on Trump’s watch. Manufacturing output rose during the first year and a half of Trump's presidency, but at a rate not much faster than during most of Obama's presidency. And after that, output stagnated or even declined slightly.

"There was nothing special or extraordinary about Trump's two years of manufacturing job growth, other than to say he benefited from synchronized global growth, which is very rare, and juice from the corporate tax cut, which probably shifted investment and hiring forward a bit," Scott Paul, president of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, told us in June."

Furthermore, you must be a mind reader because not even Ford has said why they decided to put the plant in Mexico instead (other than obvious greed). https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/union-ford-backs-vow-add-model-ohio-plant-76497644

Has Biden issued 27 executive orders? Yes, but many for things like having any Executive official sign an ethics oath or something like that and rejoining the Paris Accords. Many (if not most, I'd have to check) of them aren't even reversals of Trump policies. When they are, they are reversing Trump orders that were, themselves, reversals of Obama policies. See how that works? So yeah, politicians lie; Joe Biden's a politician and therefore he lies. Do you seriously think Trump didn't tell any lies or make false promises in his campaigns or hypocritical statements about Democrat politicians on Twitter (remind me how much time he spent golfing)? This was TOTALLY expected and completely within the framework of Donald Trump's own communication/campaign strategy, LOL.

The whole point of your original post was to start with a false conclusion - that a BUNCH of Biden voters have "buyer's remorse" because they expected progressive policies (that you're either lying about or exaggerating - most Biden voters I know did NOT expect any such things) and work backwards by spinning several bits of truth in with an equal amount of fiction. Is Biden senile? Most assuredly. Does it matter and is it any different than when Reagan or Trump were in office with regards to who's "running the country" (a ridiculous and naive way to think in the first place)? Of course not. Did the media spend 4 years hyping Russia collusion nonsense? Of course they did, but what on God's green Earth does that have to do with whether Biden voters are remorseful, which they aren't? Biden NEVER promised $50K in loan forgiveness to former college students, he's NOT the reason that gas prices have been rising, he's not why Ford reneged on their "promise" to build a plant in Ohio, and the "liberal" media IS reporting on the "crisis" at the border. And guess what else they're doing? FAKING the reports to make the situation look worse than it is: https://www.waynedupree.com/2021/03/cnn-staged-border-crossing/

Whose interests does that serve? CNN's ratings. And your alleged quote from a migrant saying he might not have come if Trump was in office - without further context I say "who cares what one cherry picked guy says?" Do you really think that these people wouldn't have eventually come at some point anyway, no matter whether there's a new and mostly ineffective wall or whether ICE was acting like the gestapo force they're pretty much ALWAYS been? You want to really stop 'illegal' aliens from entering the USA? Then lobby YOUR government (Canada) to stop supporting United States meddling and anti-democratic activities in Central and South America. You know, like Hillary Clinton's coup and death squads in Honduras or Trump's brutal sanctions regime on Venezuela.

At the end of it all, it's just plain ridiculous and counterfactual to claim that a large number of Biden's voters are disappointed and that Biden is to blame for gas prices. What, you don't think Trump bombed Syria or stole their oil and land? That IS Republican fear mongering whether you realize it or not - REGARDLESS of what kind of fear mongering the corporate illiberal media did while Trump was in office being a hypocrite (really too many examples to count) or not living up to campaign promises despite control of the Senate. IOW, from Biden's own mouth: "Nothing will fundamentally change." And nothing really has. Yet.

Again, when you imply that someone (especially a single person) is "in charge" it belies a fundamental misunderstanding of how the American government (and deep state) really works.

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"You're insufferable on the Russia/Crimea thing"

You just can't get over the fact that I caught you lying by omission. And here's the thing. You wouldn't even have had to lie (by omission or otherwise) to change my mind on Crimea. If you'd told me the entire story, I'd have been, "well, the majority of Crimeans are ethnically Russian, they speak Russian, their grandparents were part of Russia and were given by Russia to Ukraine to secure alliances, maybe without the consent of the Crimean people, like the daughter of a king offered to a foreign prince to end a war. Just close your eyes and think of England, dear."

But no. You couldn't tell me all that stuff that might have provided context, because then I might not have agreed with you. So you lied. You lied by omission. You misled me. So I called you on it.

And then you engaged in some sidebar bitch session with another disingenuous ... person ... about how I'd impugned your character. Oooh. I've been spanked. The Fun Police has publicly spanked me.

So I call you on THAT, and then you call ME insufferable. Perhaps you're right. I don't suffer fools, liars or manipulative shitbags.

Anyway, I'm about to hit the hay. If you've said anything above after that doozy of an opener that is worthy of a response, I'll get to it tomorrow.

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Yawn. There was not even an *opportunity* to lie by omission. You said that Russia "illegally" annexed the Crimean peninsula and it went from there. Yes, that is in fact the opinion of NATO and its lapdogs. That is in fact the opinion of the Ukrainian government. I provided links to exactly the information you're claiming I was intentionally omitting, as though I'm some naive netizen with an agenda who thought there was no way you'd actually click through to the links or go to Wikipedia yourself. So no, there was no omission. However you, or Bellingcat, or NATO or the US and Canadian governments and corporate media wish to characterize it, there was massive instability in Ukraine at the time sparked by the Obama administration (with help from Canada, BTW) and Russia acted to protect its interests - a warm water naval port in Crimea - by stationing troops in the region to prevent the kind of neo Nazi (minority) uprising and to bloodlessly prevent its aggressors from gaining control of the area surrounding its sole naval port on the Mediterranean.

Then you spent a good 5-6 comments - in partial agreement with me, I might add - focusing only on the "fact" that a 97% "YES" vote with an 80+% turnout is so unlikely as to be automatically indicative of some sort of fraud (of a nature you were unable to articulate) and therefore another way to cast the annexation as illegal from your perch in the West, having previously had zero knowledge of the things you just mentioned such as the Russian heritage of the majority of Crimeans. Again, it's not my job to provide encyclopedic replies to you so that you don't accuse me of lying by omission. That's just ridiculous. This is the Internet - if you're interested enough to spend as much time as you did arguing with me about it, you MUST be interested enough to devote some time to reading about it on your own. Granted, you did change your mind, or at lease come to view the situation with a lot more (justified) nuance, so I feel as though I at least accomplished something positive.

"And then you engaged in some sidebar bitch session with another disingenuous ... person ... about how I'd impugned your character..."

No, actually and what you just wrote could be considered lying by omission as well, because you're leaving out the context that you accused ME of impugning YOUR character first and I then pointed out that the same could easily be said about your "style" of argument and the things - such as you current accusation of me being a liar - that you said about my character. Seeing a pattern here? Karen starts by stating opinions as irrefutable fact, someone points out to her that she's actually not correct or considering the whole context/history and we end up down this same rabbit hole again and again.

Another way to describe your "style" could be pot calling the kettle black. Or projection. I don't think you take the time to read carefully and for comprehension - I didn't say "you are insufferable." (period), I said you were insufferable on a certain topic on which you initially started with a firm conclusion (Crimea's referendum result to join Russian Federation is "illegal") and worked backwards tirelessly through various and shifting rationales to support the same initial conclusion when presented with evidence or contrary information. Instead of first getting the holistic picture yourself - inclusive of history, demographics, societal attitudes there, and also the nature of land acquisitions in the West - you expected me to read your mind and educate you on literally every aspect of what happened and when I didn't overtly mention one part of it, you accused me of lying by omission.

Regardless, my main point in that entire conversation - mired and bogged down by Western propaganda driven minutiae - was that both referendums (like Brexit and the Crimean annexation) and land acquisitions (throughout "modern" history) are never as simple and one sided as you presented the Crimea situation to be. I proceeded to point out that, once one understands the history and continuing legacy of the Gadsden Purchase, the Louisiana Purchase and the "purchase" of Arizona and California - all well within the past 200 years - they could easily be classifiable as "illegal" or "theft" or any number of other negative terms of abuse that the United States, Canada and the NATO countries have used to describe virtually any Russian action and any previous action committed by non-allied countries in their own backyards. To me, that was the bigger message - that you were engaging in Western Chauvinism common among the liberal center and the right in the United States and Canada. Applying differing standards to people and countries half a world away than you do to your own and my own country, which happen to be very ideologically and strategically aligned on behalf of Western private capital. Or arguing from the perspective that "history began at _____ point in time" to conveniently frame out any of the past "illegal" and unethical things that Western capitalist controlled countries have done to their own neighbors AND countries much farther away from our homeland than Crimea and Georgia are from Russia. Further, I hoped to demonstrate that Western media and the way we write and remember history, distant and recent, is full of propagandistic notions of exceptionalism and bravery in the face of evil while we have ALWAYS painted countries that don't bow to the whims of western capitalists and extractive industries to which they are home as evil, existential threats to the existence of everything from the USA, white people in general, "freedom", "democracy" and everything we are taught to hold dear and sold on constantly by the center-liberal corporate media, the rightwing media and of course the banks and corporations that control it all (which is also an answer to your question about "who's in charge with Biden/Kamala in the White House).

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OK, well if you do find the time to respond to the ACTUAL content of my reply to you, here's an article from a conservative American website which basically says the same things I've said/linked: NO, Biden is NOT responsible for the rise in gas prices....YET.


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And in case you find yourself wondering if I care about hypocrisy from a newly elected president, the answer is "no - it's completely normal and has never been any different."

P.S. Why do you care so much about American politics? Have you ever been to the American Southwest or Texas? Last time we tangled, it was pretty clear you were ignorant on much of American history including how the US acquired lands (and the people who were living there) through shady, brutal, tricks and broken promises, in the not TOO distant past. If the US government wasn't so inherently hypocritical or characterized by the "do as we say not as we do, as we can do whatever we want" (which the corporate media totally supports), then even they would say that way the USA acquired the states of New Mexico, Arizona and California was illegal, based on a military invasion and that it isn't legitimate. You understand what I'm saying?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Biden cancelled the Keystone XL, not the Keystone pipeline, which is still sending that sludge to Texas ports to be refined and shipped all over the world, the US being largely just a transit along the way to those Texas refineries, which as I recall, are duty free.

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A distinction without a difference. And by sludge, do you mean a vital component of the asphalt you drive on every day, without which modern travel would be impossible?

By which I mean bitumen?

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The Keystone and XL lines are different, as they take different routes from Hardisty, Alberta through Canada and then through the US before joining together in Steele, Nebraska, the XL picking up US oil along the way before that junction, while US oil is added further south on the existing Keystone line. By the way, the XL stands for "Export limited". Hmm.

Biden's cancelling the XL still has no impact on the tar sands reaching US refineries, and most importantly, the Saudi owned refineries in Port Arthur, where their export is out of US hands, as best as I can determine. I just read an article that despite the XL being cancelled, which was allowed to be done by the executive order Trump signed back in 2017, it is expected that exports of those tar sands will continue to grow in the next few years.

As Biden said, nothing will fundamentally change; all this noise over the XL allowing both parties to virtue signal with little tangible difference in the real world.

By sludge, I mean the product dug up in Alberta, which uses vast amounts of water and fuel to be extracted and then sent by pipelines, that seem either poorly constructed or designed.

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I'm not sure on the naming or details, but let me dig up an interesting bit about the Texas ports. Might take me until tomorrow to do it, but it ties in with everything from the sanctions on Venezuela to the goings on in the Ukraine, if I recall correctly.

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All this is from memory, but I recall the Port Arthur refinery/ ports were tax free, or mostly so, and they, at least years ago when I read about it, were switched over to producing more diesel fuel than gas, as it were to be shipped overseas, where diesel demand was higher.

I wonder if Karen realizes, or would admit, that it was Obama who cleared the way for the Keystone Pipeline, (not the XL) to be pushed from its previous terminus at Cushing, OK. down to Port Arthur. Typical Obama/corporate Dems; triangulating everything they touch.

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It is as if people have forgotten that Biden was a complete disaster all through the primaries, until Obama, Buttigeig, Klobaucher, and Jim Clyburn stepped in after Nevada. What was remarkable were two things about that period:

1. Centrist democrats were threatening to jump ship to Trump instead of back Bernie, this was amplified loudly in major media as threat to people who did not want Trump re-elected (but not enough to vote for "a socialist").

2. The brand of Biden is -- "I am not as bad as Trump" after 4 years of the media saying how bad he is...

Pro-Biden is like being pro cheese....its okay, but there are only a few gromits in the bunch --- certainly not in the numbers some of these poster imagine.

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Not a bad analysis but what does it mean to be pro-Biden? Are you pro-senility?

Oh, it’s because he has a stutter? This would be funny but the leader of the free world has no idea what day it is and there are very real geopolitical threats out there that want to rip us a new asshole.

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Forgot to address item 1. In my social and other personal circles, none of the Biden backers ever overtly threatened to jump ship and vote for Trump, but they definitely talked a lot about how badly a "socialist" like Bernie Sanders would lose if he got the nomination. This despite things like this: https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/332097-why-sanders-would-have-defeated-trump-in-2016

And: https://trofire.com/2020/01/27/trump-admits-hes-scared-of-bernie-sanders-in-leaked-footage/

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The difference being that those messages of jumping ship were far higher up than at the individual level. I am talking institutions and power brokers who were signaling, there is no way we call sell it in our environments without people losing their revenue streams. I have no idea about the social circles you reside in, but here in DC area there were plenty that said they could just hold their nose for 4 more years and keep their positions in opposition to Trump --- and at least they would still be viable later.

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Exactly. Nobody that I know was under any illusions that Biden was going to even remotely try to enact any of the Bernie or AOC favored policies, hell, not even Warren's. He was straightforward about it and so were his supporters in my circles. They basically all said the same thing - we need to get rid of Trump, but f*ck your tuition loan forgiveness and M4A. Frankly, I still don't believe that Biden actually won Massachusetts either or that Warren came in THIRD in her own state.

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This needs to be amplified much more than it is. Apparently, there are people here who think the squad, Bernie, Ro, or pick a progressive has influence or sway of the DNC machinery. Katie Porter at times too. None of them are anywhere near the centers of real power, decision making in crucial areas of the economy, our defense, intelligence or procurement. They are symbols, dimly lit.

However, the one thing that was promised over and over again --- and I suspect it is true --- is that Biden does not think much will change. And if he thinks this, and says it out loud, then we would be thick not, at the very least, not to listen and observe how he makes good on this promise.

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I don’t think progressives hold sway. I think the DNC et al, will co-opt some talking points, devise some really bad policy that throws huge money at the insiders fake not for profits in a pretense to address real issues and deflate Bernies coalition so a third party isn’t viable.

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Agree. Why do you think the corporate "liberal" media gives AOC and Omar such shit in almost the exact same ways as the right when they accomplish things like concessions from Amazon.

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"Please expound. Give us exact examples of illegitimate outcomes and give some of us the chance to prove you wrong."

"Frankly, I still don't believe that Biden actually won Massachusetts either"

Both of these are statements by you. Do you actually try to be consistent in your views, or do you just like coming on here and arguing with people, and thus saying whatever serves the purpose?

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"Both of these are statements by you. Do you actually try to be consistent in your views, or do you just like coming on here and arguing with people, and thus saying whatever serves the purpose?"

Where'd you go Adam? I want answers to my questions below since obviously it's YOU that does what you're accusing me of doing without having the slightest understanding of the nuances or processes that us adults are talking about. Well? Are you going to answer ANY of my questions?

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Since you probably have no clue what I'm talking about regarding your totally off-topic and irrelevant link in response to a different topic, and you might be too inebriated to care or track it down, I'll go ahead and answer your question.

You ARE aware that my comment about Biden winning MA was regarding the Democrat primary and not the general (in which he also won it, but is beside the point) and that the primary for that party is run completely differently than a general election, right?

Or were you operating under the misconception/delusion that I was saying I didn't believe that Biden won MA in the 'General' which itself - given the entirety of my statement - would mean that somehow Warren was running against Biden, Trump and whoever would have come in at 2nd place in such a scenario?


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First answer my question about the pandemic being present in multiple countries before China's first lockdown and what it has to do with Muslims either feeling or not feeling more pain.

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Schumer and others said ALL of student debt forgiven; Biden and Harris said they were looking at it, but have talked about $10K . Haven't even done that except to those"defrauded). He definitely let them think he would do it. His administration has everything to do with rise in gas prices. We will be energy dependent and now we've allowed China access to our electric grid again. She's right about all of it. And my dad has Parkinson's and I know he has that or some other form of dementia. Nightmare.

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You revealed yourself as a pawn last week, make that 2 weeks straight.


And I didn't read your garbage AOL "report" but, imo (and I'm invested heavily in sector), the price of oil (gas) is increasing because more risk is being factored in with banjo boy's mishandling of ME.

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LOL, was the Biden Tweet in response to my statement that Biden never promised to forgive $50K in college loans? You do realize that the loans he's talking about in that Tweet are business loans from the COVID stimulus bills, right?

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Figured you'd read it. Not surprised you did not. Direct link:


You're a pawn sent here to make things unpleasant. Get lost. No, scratch that, continue to pay MT while we ignore you.

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Hey, BTW - on a scale of 1 to 10, how invested are you in the Qanon 'movement'?

I'm guessing 11?

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You keep using the word "pawn" but I don't think you know what it means. For the 2nd time, who do you think I'm a "pawn" for?

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I did read it you dipsh*t. Now explain to me how it's in any way relevant to what I said.

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"Additionally, we should forgive a minimum of $10,000/person of federal student loans, as proposed by Senator Warren and colleagues. Young people and other student debt holders bore the brunt of the last crisis. It shouldn't happen again."

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You must be mistaking me for someone else. AOC "report"? WTF is that? A pawn? To whom? Please explain, big guy.

Also please explain to me, in your own words, how Biden's "mishandling" (as though Trump did something right?) of the ME has factored into the running 3-month surge in gasoline prices. I'll wait.

P.S. what was the point in the Twitter link?

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Have absolutely no remorse. Trump was a pure horror before he tried to overthrow the results of the election.

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Wow. There is a shitload of crap hanging out in these replies, but if you seriously believe that that was a legitimate outcome on Nov. 4th, or wait was it the 5th? Maybe the 6th? Well whatever....if you think that election was kosher please please look at my zillow listing for my BEAUTIFUL ocean view condo in Ames, Iowa. You can have it dirt cheap.


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You fell for the conspiracy hook, line and sinker. If the Ds could steal an election without any evidence coming to light, why don't they do it in every race going forward if they're so all powerful?

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I mean it's not as if they don't recognize that exact thing and are not trying... https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1/text

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Please expound. Give us exact examples of illegitimate outcomes and give some of us the chance to prove you wrong.

Coalescing to destroy Bernie's campaign again and hiding Hunter's laptop contents by censoring and de-platforming I'll agree with. But those are akin to the Comey "October Surprise" when Hillary was running. The Pillow Guy type slander of the entire voting system and easily debunked bullshit is where I think you're coming from and I'd be happy - as a firm believer in the multiple ways fraud has been committed to install Republican neocon/neolib Presidents - to point out to you on a case-by-case basis why you're wrong about mail-in ballots and the like.

The real voter fraud and voter suppression is largely Republican, hence pro-Trump, oriented and it affects my district directly via gerrymandering and the lack of voting 'infrastructure' in poorer, mostly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods - INCLUDING by Democrats during their own primaries.

But you look at Ohio in 2004 and Florida in 2000 if you want to see fraud in the presidential election process.

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Tried to overthrow the results of the election? By going to court, and then exercising constitutional remedies?

Hey, how's this for "incitement of insurrection?" https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1375276181034045441

One of the House Managers who impeached Trump for inciting an insurrection by encouraging senators to join house members in objecting to Biden's electoral votes, objected to Trump's electoral votes in Jan of 2017. Was the House manager inciting an insurrection? What about Maxine Waters? She objected to Trump's electoral votes too. Hillary? Spent 4 years claiming Trump was elected by Putin.

Hell, PA didn't even certify the 2016 election until Dec 12 (4 days past the supposedly hard deadline of Safe Harbor Day) because Hillary was litigating. Oops. I meant to say, Hillary was attempting to overthrow the government.

Of course, in 2020, despite several pending lawsuits, PA certified the results for Biden on November 24, then successfully argued in court that reversing the certification was too big an ask.

Why, it's almost as if there are two standards here!

Meanwhile, in September of last year, in the middle of a pandemic and lockdowns no less, 56% of Americans said they were better off then than they were 4 years prior. Even Ronald Reagan didn't break 50% when running for reelection. No president running for reelection has since they started the poll.

Congratulations. You are why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, why don't you fill me in on Trump's policies you disagree with. Once you've been delivered your smelling salts over the vapors you're suffering over his attempted overthrow.

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Ask the 500,000 dead if they feel better off. His attempted overthrow happened January 6th - which you neglected to mention in your diatribe. Going to courts is okay; sending your followers into the Capital with noises, zip tied and stun guns is not.

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"sending your followers into the Capital with noises, zip tied and stun guns is not."

Oh no! Not the noises! Anything but the terrible noises!

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Since you're already here on Substack, perhaps you should consider also reading Glenn Greenwald. Your misconceptions would clearly benefit from it: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims

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No thanks. Cannot stand Greenwald.

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Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore - are there any other non-contrarian journalists you lot endorse? Very tiresome.

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Your take on Warren's statement is so far off the mark as to be part of the Qanon pantheon. How is what she said incitement for insurrection?

"Going to court and exercising constitutional remedies" must mean "flooding the already too busy court system with meritless but technically compelling lawsuits designed to drag the certification out long enough in hopes of something really bad happening and me hanging onto power."

Please. The Democrats have been trash throughout all of this, but your apology writing for Trump and his close allies and fanbois/girls are just pure Trumpist talking points and delusions.

And here you are with one of your unlinked, unnamed polls again. You're worse than the Dems and their polling sites leading up to 2016. What exact poll was that and what exact questions were asked?

You're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Common Trumper tactic. Also, no coincidence, common modern center-liberal DNC and corporate media tactic, the latter having been adopted whole cloth from Fox News.

Seriously, Karen - would you mind providing a list of the news and analysis sites you read on a daily basis that are specific to American politics? I'll do the same in order to ensure fair play, but you seem indoctrinated by corporate/energy company rightwing propaganda and that's evident/implied in your responses to me above. Given that there's no "ignore" feature here and to spare our fellow readers any more painful discomfort of reading our back-n-forths, it would be nice to know where exactly you're coming from. Who do you read?

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Yup! So the Ds lie and the Rs lie - ho-hum, what else is new - I have seen the back and forth mud-slinging over the years - and i say "a pox on both their houses!" - time, way past time, to dump the lot and go 3rd party BIG time - THAT is the ONLY thing that will get their attention, and maybe, just maybe, get us on the road to the getting the stuff we the people really need, and want ... If we had voted at the electoral polls the way we vote in opinion polls - neither of these schmucks, nor the schmucks for at least the last 20 years or so, would be in office ...

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Biden has been in office two months and it is a complete shitshow. Russia, China and N Korea are quaking in their boots at the sight of Biden. If you have no remorse now wait to you see what happens.

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So fear mongering. Naked, baseless fear mongering. As though anything Trump was doing would have led to mutually acceptable outcomes with NK or China or Russia. Russia was quaking in their boots over Trump's administration, but your "side" doesn't seem to get those memos. https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/11/18/25-times-trump-has-been-dangerously-hawkish-on-russia/

And if you think I'm "defending" Biden, that's further proof of your own indoctrination and bubble dwelling existence.

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What will it take to have remorse....or do you aspire to see a country in one short year that none of us will recognize, much less be able to pay for!

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I see a country with 500,000 dead due to the ineptitude of the former guy. I’ll take Biden any day.

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500,000 dead of cancer with Covid and motor vehicle deaths with Covid and murders with Covid and strokes and heart attacks with Covid. There are 500,000 deaths when you count all those who died of something else but got tested for Covid so they could count them. Wake the hell up to truth.

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Disagree. I have very controlled high blood pressure - which has high co-morbidity with COVID. If I contracted COVID would you just cavalierly write off my cause of death as you have just done here? Anything to protect the former guy’s abhorrent handling of this virus.

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Correction: you mean "guys and gals": Murphy, Cuomo, Whitmer, ...

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Ineptitude of former guy? How so?

This country is arguably the freest and most hard-headed on earth and definitely it's most mobile. How on earth will we wind up with less deaths/m than over a dozen other countries, along with the EU? What did Trump do so wrong I ask seriously?

Downplay it in favor of not crashing economy? Presidential. Try comparing that to the shitshow put on by Walensky and Biden yesterday. You'd rather that?

Said it's just going to go away? As viruses do. But again, stay calm. Show faith. Lead.

Mitigate under-supply of PPE because of China dominance in production of? In under 3 months. I thought he and American biz partners did pretty well.

Discourage mask usage by not wearing one like Biden did while campaigning? Ok, but regardless of what the pro-maskers claim there exists no data showing they work. Would a 100% masked country have made any difference? Unconstitutional and nope.

Have the audacity to promise an autumn vaccine while Fauci and literally EVERYONE else claimed it would take years? Trump was right.

I really dislike blaming elected officials for how covid effected their particular state or country, as if those officials had anything to do with a virus running its natural course. Except, of course, the lockdown states and countries. Those officials, and Biden would have been one of them, have caused far more damage.

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Or so you were told

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Wow, this is so fucking well done. Kudos, Ms Straughan

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Two-man circle jerk.

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By their logic, Hitler was "right more often than not" as well.

So was Stalin.

Sure... they may have been VERY wrong about some key issues, like being genocidal cunts, but man... synthetic fuel and a completely controlled media to urge the sheep in even the most horrific directions -that's something these douchebags envy greatly.

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Without social media, none of the cunts would have either fuel to burn or oxygen and accelerants to power their shitquests along. Their entire ethos is lying, flaming, gaslighting, and (this part is speculative) finger-fucking themselves with the use of sandpaper thimbles.

So yes, even with all the electronic tools for chickenshit deviance anyone needs, they still lack the game of the Nazis, making their envy of the ability to fully control all the greater.

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"... finger-fucking themselves with the use of sandpaper thimbles."

Enough said.

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I was just talking about how USA Today fired their “Race Initiatives Editor” or some such title over a bad tweet regarding the Colorado supermarket shooting-premature white dude blaming. Anyway, I said the last paper to have an editor with a similar title was run by Joseph Goebbels...

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Where was the "premature white dude blaming" in the Colorado Muslim shooting spree? Some rando's Twitter feed? Please do provide evidence....OH, you mean the USA Today cancel culture editor's stupid Tweet that it's "always a white guy" - well she got canceled dude. Isn't that exactly what you want....when the person doing the tweeting is considered to be opposed to your own viewpoints? Win Win!

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This is akin to advertising in a church for abortion clinic locals.

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Oooh, so Kevin Beck is really onto something there. But let's review US history. In the aggregate, as a percentage, how many mass killings - which in this case I'll define as more than 7, 'preferably' total strangers - have been perpetrated by white males?

It's just a simple question. Again, keep in mind the "total stranger" qualifier. In the USA, UK, New Zealand, Norway, even France (which I threw in along with acknowledging the Orlando shooting here because I know it would offset some of the white numbers).

Let's take it a step farther. As far as mass shootings according to the same arbitrary definition I just provided, how many have been committed by white females or women of color?

So when You hear about a mass shooting, and the initial word is that it was random - not workplace disenfranchisement related aka "Postal" - do YOU generally think of a particular profile, and does that profile align with the statistical reality, or do you wait until every detail is known, or do you assume it was a non-white, possibly Islamic extremist?

*Note that I said random strangers because of course, in deeply impoverished inner city situations like Chicago and St. Louis where there are few jobs and even less trust in law enforcement to right past/recent grievances, it's obvious that most "mass shootings" will at least involve someone or some people that the shooter knows on some level. Contrast that with El Paso, Charleston, Christchurch, Atlanta (so far as is public), Sandy Hook, and even the high school shootings dating back to Columbine where most of the victims weren't even secondary acquaintances of the killers.

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A Hitler and a Stalin analogy in the same comment. Must be bad... (I'm wondering what the trifecta would be?)

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My money is on Pol Pot or Papa Doc Duvalier.

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Don't forget Idi Amin.

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The Last King of Scotland-the most worthy Oscar ever for Forrest Whitaker. My mom actually flew into Kampala-safari vacation-the day after Idi took over in 1971!

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Probably Mao, although as the TaiPing rebellion was the third or second bloodiest conflict in human history, maybe it’s the guy who set it off, claiming to be Christ’s brother.

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Taiping Rebellion-exhibit A for why devolution of military authority to local authorities is a really shortsighted policy.

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I believe management and staffers at MSNBC, CNN, NYT, et al, rationalize their ineptitude and duplicity as follows:

Yes, we intentionally misled our audiences with lies and fake news with our reporting on the _________________________ story (insert Russiagate or any other Trump era fake news scandal), however, Trump was such a threat to our democracy and Western Civilization that we had to use all means necessary, including creating and/or perpetuating false narratives, to keep Trump from being reelected.

Curiously, MSM reporting of false narratives has not slowed down or stopped since Trump left office, which proves the adage once you start telling lies it's very hard to stop!

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Yep, and it's easy to delude oneself into believing that none of the crazy stuff you were yelling about happened BECAUSE you were so vigilant.

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You're kidding, right? Contradictory viewpoints must not be heard. Dissenting voices must be eliminated. That is the raison d'être of the old media and the national intelligence apparatus (but I repeat myself).

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When I read this thread from time to time, I see a few glaring errors from posters.

One of which happens to be confusing Democratic Party Leaders with being left, liberal in the general sense or having much connection to the masses of people who've taken on the progressive identity. These leaders put on this identity like it is a costume, but in no way is it reflected in their most important policy initiatives.

Do you think here in this space, we could agree to quit calling the Bidens, the Obamas and the Clintons of the world leftist liberals? It is inaccurate and contributes to division.

I say this because in almost every category one can evaluate a President (distinguishing it from political candidate), they are uniquely Neoliberal. This means that they support the war machine, defense department policies. They are led by their scrotums to nominate Goldman Sachs executives into the White House as their Treasury advisors, and have been responsible for:

1. Creating Shitty Neoliberal Policies (NAFTA, Gramm-Leach-Bliley, ZIRP, Drones Warfare)

2. Substituting Shitty Neoliberal Policies (Affordable Care Act, Prison Pipeline, WS Bailouts)

3. Ignoring Popular Progressives & Labor Initiatives (M4A, Min Wage $15, Free College)

The number of wars, their financial allies, their vacuous pandering at election time, their disgust for the average working person, their absence during and contributions to our worst national events home and abroad would lead me not to think of these people as left or even right, but attached to the billionaire class in discernible ways, which makes party affiliation as we, the people, tend to use it errant--- it is more of a mask they put on when they need to belong and one they quickly take off when they get to where they are going.

Neoliberals are known for having one foot in the culture when it suits, and one foot attached to power making our labels inaccurate --- and destined for the pleabs to argue over.

Biden, Obama, the Clintons are NOT leftists --- once you get a net worth near $50 million, your political affiliation goes from the traditional pick a side 50/50 Left or Right theatre to the gaming both sides 100 (whichever party does what I want) side where they win whomever wins.

Thank you for reading.

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The really insidious part of the neoliberals being passed off as liberal, and even worse, left, is that they become the leftward limit of acceptable US political discourse. This is the inside the Beltway two step; the Dems exclude from the left and the Repubs then calling the Dem insiders leftist/socialists, the real target for them both being the already weakened US left, which if it's headed by Sanders and even worse, that complete fake AOC, is already toothless.

There are a few things we can thank Trump for, but to me his drawing out just how far right the Dems have moved, especially as it pertains to US foreign policy and their jingoistic militarism, is most noticeable. While it's true they did at times attack Trump from the left, mostly along performative lines, they always seemed more heartfelt when coming at him from the right, especially as it pertained to Russia or anything relating to military affairs.

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Nice response Michael. I wrote that not to pick at some of the more conservative members or the left-right theatre in the posting area here, but more of a support of Matt's thesis that we have to start getting accurate information to people because "getting it right more than not" is really an indifferent and damning indictment of the media and the public too for consuming it.

There is a theory, if people are interested in it, called Transtheoretical theory, often used with people who have addictions (like so many in our society) and their therapists. This theory structures change in 5 stages of individual development (I think it would be great to look at this at higher levels too family and community development etc..).

These 5 stages are:


an individual has no current plan to change their problematic behavior at all in the next 6 months. They are happy to be where they are. This begs the question. How does someone begin to know what it is they do not yet know? People in this stage often deny the existence of problematic behavior or place too much emphasis on the negatives that will result from trying.


an individual recognizes their behavior is problematic and begin to actually wrestle with idea of (pros and cons) changing one's behavior. This stage is defined by taking something that was unconscious and bringing into thinking, talking about, and consideration. It is still passive --- and many who reach this stage are still unresolved about changing their addiction, behavior, or approach to a new behavior.


an individual moves from thoughts to action with a plan. A healthier life is visualized and targeted, so they start making space in their physical and relational environments for change. Individuals tend to exhibit a great deal of determination in this stage.


an individual targets the problematic behavior directly - moving beyond past behaviors to explore new ones. Repeat changed behavior enough to where it becomes a part of a solution to their old problematic behaviors.


an individual or family actively work to prevent any relapse of the problematic behaviors or celebrate the new behaviors in such a way to honor the person's work in creating change.

**** Reminder here: the problematic behavior here is our inability to uncover the truth via mindless media consumption to the purposive distortion of events, especially those that divide us. ex. Clinton is a lib, or Obama is a lib etc.. let's get it correct.

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In my experience as a therapist, Contemplation is almost always triggered by an emotionally significant event. The actual theory of Dunning-Kruger isn't that many people think they know more than they actually do, it's that those who most loudly boast of their knowledge are usually the most ignorant; those who most loudly boast of their abilities are usually the least capable.

Dunning-Kruger's work is absolute rubbish. These 'scientists' results have only been replicated once, and that was by loading random data. It is entertaining, though. For them to move to Contemplation would require someone close to them being evicted from a prominent position on claims that their behavior is Dunning-Kruger. To move a sheep to Contemplation will require actual fascism, military invasion, or national bankruptcy.

Then, the sheep is only at Contemplation. It's like the unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence path. Most people get stuck at conscious competence and think they've arrived.

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Interesting Bill. Agree with you contemplation is often a triggering event for the self to grapple with emotions of the past, outcomes that did not work out or random emotional waste mixed in with the current patterns of behavior.

And I like how you bring in the work of D-K here, as well as contextualized it as being less significant for people other than how it has been bastardized or reoriented and aimed at people's/demographic groups's differences. Well done. And your last sentence tops off a wonderful post by uncovering what is the hidden truth in this idea (a spectrum of changes need to occur).

In fact, if you'll allow me to build upon your post, I might even suggest that "movement" forward in these stages (with respect to how we consume information) or mobility is what we need versus the current stasis and lethargy of left-right slugging it out paradigms. I win You lose type stuff changes nothing but creates more rigid thinkers.

Rather, all of the stages working and meeting people where they are at:

1. Getting more people to self-examine (Pre-Contemplation)

2. Helping those who are thinking reduce obstacles (Contemplation)

3. Having a series of helpful supports as people commit (Preparation)

4. Watching and validating the changes accomplished (Action)

5. Keep re-examining and helping others to do so as well (Maintenance)

The more people moving through the various stages, even regressing or struggling with making a change is a positive piece since it is the very polar opposite of indifference and "getting right more than not" type of thinking.

Getting it right more than not --- wear masks (oopsy); tell that to the dead

Getting it right more than not --- $1400 is better than nothing

Getting it right more than not --- Parliamentarian said no; so no $15 MW

Getting it right more than not --- WMD's in Iraq; Bernanke on Housing 2006

Getting it right more than not --- Russiagate, Syria and Venezuela 2016-20

Getting it right more than not --- Sacklers & Purdue Pharma - Oh my bad.

Getting it right more than not --- Martin Shkreli - Pharma Bro Rate Hijacked

Getting it right more than not --- Iowa Caucuses DNC App Fail (PB wins?)

Getting it right more than not --- Donna Brazile's book on DNC Hacks

Getting it right more than not --- CARES Act - Prop up the stock markets

Getting it right more than not --- Brazil, Bolivia, Venezuela (regime change)

Getting it right more than not --- Fill in the ______________________________

We need new behaviors folks. And for me that the end of television, beyond a few sporting events. Read more, think more, move to change old behaviors that do not work, and try to build a community around people who want the same things.


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I largely agree with you, especially on points two through five. We diverge significantly on point one. People willing to put any resources into self-examination don't need to be encouraged. People unwilling to put any resources into self-examination, typically because they're already perfect. Dunning-Kruger.

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Bill (triggered by an event) - edit :)

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Nonsense. Some religous traditions practice it (daily) weekly

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It sounds like it is time for Democrats to show up for the primaries and show every last neoliberal the door. Until then, it doesn't really matter about what anyone calls them because they will continue to be a stain on the legacy of the Democratic Party and these United States.

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Nicely put!

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A question -- perhaps you know:

-- Other than Fox News -- has ANY of the mainstream "elite" media published Matt's challenge to JimS?

-- Any of the coopted/corrupted "independent" media a la The Intercept, TYT's Cenk or Ana, Democracy Now -- any?

Many thanks to all in advance (and with link please).

PS: I love the "suckage visible from space" -- propose for Nobel prize in literature

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Thank you for posting.

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It seems a lot of people see the word liberal in neoliberal and misinterpret the meaning of neoliberal. You get this head-scratcher commentary from some attacking neoliberalism and supporting the Republican party.

Perhaps, as with the word progressive, its meaning is being changed to suit the culture war players of the moment? I'm afraid your thoughtful comment will fall on deaf ears.

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Philip Mirowski (academic at Notre Dame) writes about the meaning of the origins of Neoliberalism - in his book with Dieter Plewe called the Road to Mount Pelerin.

He has a few lectures as well on Youtube one could find easily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ewn29w-9I (Life & Debt)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBB4POvcH18 (Neoliberalism)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsiT9P87J4g (How NL survived)

He often cites a German colleague named Thomas Briebricher who describes the different variants of Neoliberalism as well. Anyhow these meanings have not changed in 30 years --- it is a difficult topic (Neoliberalism) precisely because the different movements across Europe and the US made a conscious decisions not identify as Neoliberals publicly or any configuration often pointing their diversity of thought - many of the original thinkers deny this label - neoliberalism. Nonetheless, they contributed to its dominance in hidden ways to the lay public.

And when you learn about the history of who they are why behave the way they do, you'll understand why no one actually claims to be a Neoliberal (it is much easier because of the policies to hide in the recesses of the two parties, pretending).

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So I’m coming at this from a left-libertarian perspective (LTV, free-market in the classical sense as a means to trade goods, “corporate” organization as worker cooperative or self employed, property rights to be held in common or if privately owned require occupancy and use as a requisite), but I don’t understand how he is counting Hayek into the neo-liberal world, or how he thinks that somehow any of this invalidates the LTV and the critiques of Marx.

The LTV in equation form as stated by Marx is just ridiculous - valueless things don’t just magically have value because someone produced them. They have value because it’s a good that requires some marginal disutility to obtain and because someone wants it. Even if you agree with the marginalists (like me) and think value is subjective, you can still work backward and say the value that someone is willing to pay just determines the value of the labor once you subtract the cost of capital, and that the LTV still holds. We have all heard the arguments about making mud pies and what not... I don’t really see why everyone spends so much time arguing about value theories and how those concepts are mutually exclusive; it’s largely a waste of time. Profits above cost of capital and labor are exploitation because the capitalist is getting something for nothing; this doesn’t require one to believe in strict LTV as Marx stated it and throw away marginalist claims of value. The right claims it’s not exploitation because they think you should get rewarded for the “risk” of investment. It’s simply a different definition of what profit is and I don’t think neo-liberal assumptions about markets as information or something lie that changes these basic definitions.

Also, on Hayek being the start neo-liberalism, I have never been able to find any concrete evidence of this. Of all of the Hayek I have read, he seems to be honestly lassiez-faire with a new, almost post-modern style analysis of why we need a free market. It seems the defining aspect of neo-liberals is pretending to be a classical liberal caring about enlightenment values then just tweaking the market to your own ends. Yes, hayek does conclude the market is a way of moving information, but the information of prices not all value in life. It’s more a statement that nobody can fully understand the market, so we need to let it work itself out instead of doing the central planning thing. I can see how this plays into neo-liberal agenda and though process and I do know he was a big influence on people like Reagan, but all of the neo-liberals have attempted to interfere with the market in ways that are certainly not lassiez-faire, so it’s hard to think that any of them actually really put much stock in his work. I suppose he is assuming they use the guise of being his follower as a cloak for what they are doing, the same as they lie about actually desiring a free market in the classical sense?

I’m no expert on Marx or Hayek; I’ve never read their works more than once and not all of them (they both have loaaads of material and have what I find to be off-putting writing styles), so I could be off base here... Just my thoughts from watching the videos, and my understanding from reading the primary two economists being discussed.

Is there something I’m missing here?

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The Road to Mount Pelerin and Never Let a Serious Crisis go to Waste are the two books you want if you want to make connections between the original founders of the MPS (Mount Pelerin Society - writers of Neoliberalism's origins) of which F Hayek was an important founding member (often cross-pollinating his ideas on classic liberalism at LSE, U of Chicago, and Freiburg).

Hayek rejects Marx and the socialist point of view, that is why he is valuable to the US empire - as a social scientist and economist for "free market" capitalism, but then we actually get into the meat of both their ideas -- and its ironic that the capture of the US governmental apparatus (corporatism led by finance) originated from the MPS (with the help Hayek).

A key defining feature here is that he and his colleagues (eventually Milton Friedman and the Chicago Boys) were looked upon as outsiders for much of the 20th century (weird to the profession --- cult like and often ridiculed by the mainstream successes of Keynesian economics and the Golden period of economic growth in the US 1947-1970 or there about.

Neoliberalism can be defined as a series of different theories used in conjunction to take over state power by using the purposeful rhetoric (Free markets, there is no alternative, supply side tactics to redistribute wealth), the power of the state, and corporations to seize back power for capital and away from the balance between capital-labor. This is a global phenomenon using the elite in the different world economies to work together to generate cheap labor and reduce wages.

Their strategies are:

Neoliberal Manual of how to extract wealth (home and abroad

1. Sell free markets on the front end (free market capitalism - fantasy)

2. Assess profitability or scout out new revenue streams (natural resources)

3. Align with business classes to deregulate markets (open up; change rules)

4. Align with political class to cut social supports (reduce public resources)

5. Align with industry stakeholders to privatize resources (Private Gains)

6. All losses that come from deregulation/privatization (Socialized Losses)

7. Protectionism (thin layer of free market rhetoric) (Oligopoly & Monopoly)

The central facet is that Neoliberals use every conduit to their advantage often infiltrating organizations and institutions to carry out their policies:

A. Thinktanks, NGOs

B. Large regulatory bodies or World Banks (IMF)

C. Chamber of commerce, National Association of Manufacturing

D. Political Appointees, Ambassadors, College Presidents (Ivy League)

E. Media (Operation Mockingbird) - CIA plants editors into industry

F. Wall Street - Financialization, legislation, and preferred legal status

G. Federal Reserve Policy (Greenspan put) - inflation boogyman

H. Scientists, Universities, Administrators - pay to play (rainmakers)

I. Physicians, Pharma and Patents

J. Gutting of Federal Regulators (S&L, Rating agencies, Anti-Trust abuses)

K. Key Legislation (GLB 1999, CFTC Act, ACA, CARES Act)

**** Each little piece won the group grows the base of support and more of the followers go get MBA's at Harvard or Uni of Chicago and go to NY to make their way, susceptible to being an agent for neoliberalism. And by 1990s to 2004, almost all of the levers of power were taken over by corporate hands. This allowed them to make huge changes to compensation, take huge risks in the market place and profit off of the transition to a global capitalist system (with few rules, and a militant bent to protect monopolies).

Marx is helpful to us Americans, not because of his theory for what to do next (i.e. socialism), but more so for having the singularly greatest critique of capitalism that has ever been done. There are no utopia "free market" rebranded tropes to repair capitalism here, but just the hard plain facts that capitalism eats itself -- when you factor in that all of the levers of power have succumb to corporations.

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I agree with you that Marx has a spectacular critique of capitalism, and that the value is in the critique not in the solution. I do not agree with his solution or with most socialists that markets themselves are the problem. I do not believe the tool of markets requires capitalism, or that communism should be the end goal. With all of the intellectual hazard that comes with quoting dead anarchists, I will reference Proudhon on this one “Property is exploitation of the weak by the strong. Communism is exploitation of the strong by the weak.”

In the spirit of this comment on properly defining terms, I will stop rambling and take your answer on neoliberalism and Hayek’s part in it. Thanks for the great response; I’ve got a book or 2 to read.

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Except that we have a long history of socialism in this US, mostly hidden from view; socialism for the wealthy and corporations, and capitalism for everyone else (TBTF 2009 Bailouts, Estate Tax Sunset Provision, Failure to prosecute Bankers/Banks responsible).

And we also have an example of FDR putting government to work for people (legislation, social security, and a whole of host of infrastructure and public good programs), which could be described as social spending. In fact, they were so wildly popular that the business class tried to have FDR killed and have spent the last 70 years after his death trying to unwind what his administrations accomplished for the people.

So, your beliefs of how things should be --- need to be informed with what works and the historical tendency for capital to erase the gains of labor.

Dave, in reading your last parts here --- you are throwing around too many things. It is a fun conversation though.

Back at it. Communism is not an experiment that would fly in this country. Plus, Marx gets unfairly blamed for the Russian & Chinese experiments. We would not blame Jesus Christ for the worst behaviors of violent Christians, so why would we blame Marx for the practitioners abroad --- which led to totalitarian regimes?

The reason this happens is because the US is a hyper-capitalist country and would rather dismantle Marx than give him credit. See Allen Dulles' work on the issue, especially Indonesia.

Back home here, even some of the most ardent socialists believe capital has a role to play in society (private industry).

The problem that exists now is not one of a teeter tottering over to communism; that is an impossibility. But at hand, the current issue is that Neoliberal capitals have captured all of the levers of power and corrupted it -- just like Marx predicted. The obvious solution is to rebuild/grow the public sector, unions, schools, and other institutions in the mould of non-neoliberal worker driven enterprises, but the TPTB are not going to let that happen. They have a monopoly on the economy/power hubs - so they make the rules just like Marx said -- its the death of democracy.


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Matt Stoller on Useful Idiots - ("No such thing as free unregulated markets")

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Why would MSNBC invite on someone who would shatter the carefully constructed narrative they've spend years fabricating?

That would be like Lincoln buying theater tickets for John Wilkes Booth.

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Inviting Matt on the show would not contribute a single additional advertising dollar. And while there is a small chance that Joe could humiliate his guest, I suspect everyone at MSNBC recognize in their hearts of hearts none of them are intellectual giants exactly, and there is a not insignificant chance the humiliation would run the other way.

In short, there's nothing in it for them.

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I have to believe that some of these people worked their way up the greasy pole on merit and brains. That they are not stupid, but cunning and deceptive. I HAVE to.

Otherwise, I have to realize 50% of the people are under the thrall of morons.

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You're just realizing that now? As for Biden, I thought everyone understood what he is. There was actually a good reason for voting for Biden (and the organization or AI program that runs him): Trump looked like he was going to provoke civil war, whereas Biden will start foreign wars, and civil wars are closer to home and more destructive than foreign wars, at least in the US experience. I'm not saying this is definitively provable; team Biden might well turn out to be worse than we imagine, much worse, where Trump's incompetence somewhat neutralized his particular brand of evil.

But, yeah, morons led by morons; morons by choice. It's a style very much in fashion.

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Well, if it walks like a duck . . .

A huge number of people are in thrall of morons because they stopped reading in the 1980s, and raised their progeny to imitate them. These people breed and vote.

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Go get them, you magnificent son of a bitch.

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A question -- perhaps you know:

-- Other than Fox News -- has ANY of the mainstream "elite" media published Matt's challenge to JimS?

-- Any of the coopted/corrupted "independent" media a la The Intercept, TYT's Cenk or Ana, Democracy Now -- any?

Many thanks to all in advance (and with link please).

PS: I love the "suckage visible from space" -- propose for Nobel prize in literature

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What a terrible human being Joe is. Despicable cheating lying moron married to a brain dead twit. Pathetic.

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I feel sorry for Joe. He's been a party man all his life, and there was no way for the Democrats to beat Trump, no matter who ran. The pandemic was a godsend. If they could put Trump on the defensive, they might win. Then Trump snuck into Minneapolis and murdered George Floyd, probably on his way back from China where he was spreading the virus. Now it became possible.

Every candidate was for M4A, meaning not one understood what that meant. Nobody could criticize Elizabeth "Running Drool" Warren, so the impact of her CFPB was never brought up. There were no debates, so nobody could skewer any of them. Then the party called on Biden, told him it would be one last one for the Gimper (stet). He'd only have to give a few speeches, everybody would drop out, and he'd be president. All his work would be done for him. Make $400,000 a year by working from home, max eight hours a week. But wait, there's more.

Hunter and Jim and the rest of the Family would be protected. And, he could retire after a few months with honors. Just sign here, no need to read it.

Joe Biden is a victim of elder abuse.

I just realized that the Joe you're describing is Scarborough. I'm too tired to copy the post, put it elsewhere, then delete this. It's past my bedtime.

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Her father was a smart guy. Disagreed with him sometimes, but bright.

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Genetics is a funny thing. Maybe IQ skipped a generation. When asked she said her favorite founding father was Abraham Lincoln.

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