Politics suck because politicians suck, so why would people want to drink a beer with a sucky politician acting like a regular guy? If he were a regular guy, then he wouldn't be in politics.
In his novel, Dune, Frank Herbert revealed a truth about why governments will always be corrupt:
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible."
There is an insight I've had in the past few years, which is that the value of representative democracy is not in picking good people. It doesn't do that.
What it does is, relatively easily and without bloodshed, move on from the worst people it picks. That's highly valuable and why it's the best system yet.
But we haven't mastered picking good people yet. With social media, we're getting worse at it.
The Greeks said democracies always lead to tyranny b/c of the uneducated voter. Look at who is running NYC!
What if we had to pass a civics test (or at least a citizenship test) to be able to register to vote? Yes, a lot of people would no longer vote. But, it's not discriminatory; one just needs to study for it if they want to vote.
Actually Madison verified that and had extensive notes on every democracy ever to exist and how it performed.
But the key is pure democracy (people vote for what happens and the laws, like one big set of fucking California voter propositions) versus representative democracy/constitutional republics, where you vote for legislators who have the time and ability to focus on details of issues and make better decisions.
Madison and Aristotle thought of pure democracy as corrupt, but constitutional republics as highly desirable. What they didn't have the data to know is how to pick better candidates. We still need to develop that capability.
Yes, Madison eloquently made good arguments against direct democracy in Federalist #10.
About the same time that Sam Adams was organizing the Boston tea party and Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, a Scottish professor, Alexander Tytler, connected the dots in forming his theory of the cycle of democracies (including constitutional republics since they devolve into democracies as in our case too), and why history proves that democracies of any type will never last: https://lizlasorte.substack.com/p/history-tells-us-that-democracies?r=76q58
Well Democracies don't last because time doesn't stand still. But they can last for longer or shorter. Technology (social media driven outrage) has driven the current threat to our democracy - the biggest threat right now is the left throwing over the current constitution.
But modern analysis actually shows the factors needed for such change. The model laid out by Goldstone in "Revolution and Rebelliion in the Early Modern World" is now well-tested and has proved tried and true. Highly accurate results when its predictions were applied to, for example, the Arab spring country by country.
Here if we have any major change it will be relatively bloodless, so that's good.
You can apply your opinion if you'd like to who the "worst" ones are that SHOULD be gone, but the way to analyze it is to see if those worst perceived overall can be set aside quickly when the voters agree. And they can.
You are familiar with a large number of instances of blood shed when someone is voted out of office comparable to the bloodshed over the fight for succession to wear a crown?
I understand you're making a point that people may not always go easily, but I think in the big picture they do hand over the reins.
I mean people make a big deal about Jan 6 being some sort of coup or putsch (against himself I guess), but in the end Trump physically vacated the White House and handed over the keys. Short of not doing that, it's pretty easy.
Look at Orban's recent peaceable departure in Hungary - your point would be accurately applied to him having stacked the deck in his favor, making it harder to vote him out. that's fair. My point is accurately applied to how easily he left without violence when he lost, even though it took more to oust him when the deck was stacked in his favor.
Not sure if people noticed, but the new guy immediately set about stacking the deck in his own favor. Lol.
I'd argue that it's not so much that power is a magnet, but that sitting through boring legislative sessions, hearings, and strategy meetings is a repellant to anyone intelligent enough to be insightful, thoughtful, or interesting.
It's not that power corrupts, it's that there are negatives to public service that you need to value the power or the ego boost enough to overcome and run.
I don't think Biden was particularly pathological... but he had a massive ego. And his dogs were named Governor and Senator right out of college. He denied claiming when he was in elementary school that he would be President one day, subsequent to which the nuns went and grabbed his writing on the topic from his time in school, where he claimed exactly that. That's ego.
You’re right. We get the government we voted for and that’s why no democracy will survive.
A fix might be the requirement that all voters need to pass a civics test, thus eliminating a lot of voters who want the government to take of them. But since voting is at the state level, that will not happen. Big fix -those of us who want to take care of ourselves should be able opt out if we were truly free.
Sounds a lot like an opinion asserted as a fact. Can you present an objective measure, a list of criteria that make a member of the House or Senate the worst? Is it only the best in service to their constituents that are re-elected as opposed to the best at fund raising?
I read it too for comic relief and a glimpse into parallel universes, although it typically results in blood pressure spikes. It helps that the $1/month fee is covered by a credit card so I don't have to feel like I'm personally contributing funding to the bird-cage liner of a propaganda rag. See, everyone rationalizes their actions including me!
You left out the best part of Warren's embarassment. Not that she pretended to be a beer drinker but that she literally said "I think I'll get me a beer."
The epitome of a bourgeois pretending, phony, fake. Doesn’t speak volumes for the useful idiot voters in Massachusetts who keep electing Pocahontas despite all her duplicity and phoniness.
NYT skipped the beer test with Mandami and instead went with him to a dumpy Pakistani restaurant in Queens so he could prove his regular-guy bona fides. He claimed it was his favorite place to eat, then took his meal home in a bag because he was "too busy" to actually sit and eat. A more intrepid reporter would have undoubtedly seen a staffer flinging the doggy bag from his moving Escalade a block away, but no such luck from the fawning Times.
Is it *really* fine, though, that the Times is doing a puff piece on this guy because they want the Republican to lose? You and I know the Times is the PR arm of the Democrat Party, but the paper sells itself as an ethical nonpartisan source of facts and analysis, and its readers/followers gleefully swallow that lie and all the lies that follow.
Oh Matt you HAVE to cover Nebraska politics! Both parties suing each other (and dems are getting sued by a county chair for sexual harrassment), both parties suing third parties to keep them off the ballot, and Osborn holding an "all are welcome" Soros rally and kicking out the press.
Right! And voters think elections aren't manipulated "for democracy"? Marc Elias and his team at Perkins Coie have gotten rich and cost the taxpayers millions plaything these kinds of games.
Elites try to appeal to downscale voters, so they set down the wine glass to sip a beer. No one wants to drink beer with a harridan like Elizabeth Warren.
I've always thought it was a stupid litmus test. The president is privileged to be, for a time, the chief executive of the United States. We need energy and competence, just as I would expect -- and seek out -- in a surgeon, a dentist, a lawyer, a teacher, a plumber, an electrician, a mechanic, and a parent. I'm not looking for a friend, a drinking buddy, or Santa Claus.
America is a young and sometimes immature country. We prize celebrity over ability. And sometimes we pay for it.
Politics suck because politicians suck, so why would people want to drink a beer with a sucky politician acting like a regular guy? If he were a regular guy, then he wouldn't be in politics.
In his novel, Dune, Frank Herbert revealed a truth about why governments will always be corrupt:
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible."
There is an insight I've had in the past few years, which is that the value of representative democracy is not in picking good people. It doesn't do that.
What it does is, relatively easily and without bloodshed, move on from the worst people it picks. That's highly valuable and why it's the best system yet.
But we haven't mastered picking good people yet. With social media, we're getting worse at it.
The Greeks said democracies always lead to tyranny b/c of the uneducated voter. Look at who is running NYC!
What if we had to pass a civics test (or at least a citizenship test) to be able to register to vote? Yes, a lot of people would no longer vote. But, it's not discriminatory; one just needs to study for it if they want to vote.
Actually Madison verified that and had extensive notes on every democracy ever to exist and how it performed.
But the key is pure democracy (people vote for what happens and the laws, like one big set of fucking California voter propositions) versus representative democracy/constitutional republics, where you vote for legislators who have the time and ability to focus on details of issues and make better decisions.
Madison and Aristotle thought of pure democracy as corrupt, but constitutional republics as highly desirable. What they didn't have the data to know is how to pick better candidates. We still need to develop that capability.
Yes, Madison eloquently made good arguments against direct democracy in Federalist #10.
About the same time that Sam Adams was organizing the Boston tea party and Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, a Scottish professor, Alexander Tytler, connected the dots in forming his theory of the cycle of democracies (including constitutional republics since they devolve into democracies as in our case too), and why history proves that democracies of any type will never last: https://lizlasorte.substack.com/p/history-tells-us-that-democracies?r=76q58
Well Democracies don't last because time doesn't stand still. But they can last for longer or shorter. Technology (social media driven outrage) has driven the current threat to our democracy - the biggest threat right now is the left throwing over the current constitution.
But modern analysis actually shows the factors needed for such change. The model laid out by Goldstone in "Revolution and Rebelliion in the Early Modern World" is now well-tested and has proved tried and true. Highly accurate results when its predictions were applied to, for example, the Arab spring country by country.
Here if we have any major change it will be relatively bloodless, so that's good.
The moving on may take 2 or 3 decades based on the long tenured members of the House and Senate. The damage wrought in that time is not easily undone.
You can apply your opinion if you'd like to who the "worst" ones are that SHOULD be gone, but the way to analyze it is to see if those worst perceived overall can be set aside quickly when the voters agree. And they can.
'What it does is, relatively easily and without bloodshed, move on from the worst people it picks.'
In theory, maybe. I think it's kind of hit or miss.
You are familiar with a large number of instances of blood shed when someone is voted out of office comparable to the bloodshed over the fight for succession to wear a crown?
It wasn't the bloodshed so much as the "relatively easy", especially in light of recent history.
Your point is, nevertheless, a good one.
I understand you're making a point that people may not always go easily, but I think in the big picture they do hand over the reins.
I mean people make a big deal about Jan 6 being some sort of coup or putsch (against himself I guess), but in the end Trump physically vacated the White House and handed over the keys. Short of not doing that, it's pretty easy.
Look at Orban's recent peaceable departure in Hungary - your point would be accurately applied to him having stacked the deck in his favor, making it harder to vote him out. that's fair. My point is accurately applied to how easily he left without violence when he lost, even though it took more to oust him when the deck was stacked in his favor.
Not sure if people noticed, but the new guy immediately set about stacking the deck in his own favor. Lol.
The Dune sestet hugely clarified my political thinking. I can't count how many times those books blew my head right open.
I can think of two or three morons I would rather have suffered a few beers with than have had them as president.
Operative words -"would rather have suffered"
I'd argue that it's not so much that power is a magnet, but that sitting through boring legislative sessions, hearings, and strategy meetings is a repellant to anyone intelligent enough to be insightful, thoughtful, or interesting.
🤣
I found the Iron Law of Oligarchy pretty revelatory (thanks, eugyppius). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
Previous to that, and more directly related to your Herbert quote, Political Ponerology. https://grokipedia.com/page/Political_ponerology
God damn, ain't that the depressing truth.
It's not that power corrupts, it's that there are negatives to public service that you need to value the power or the ego boost enough to overcome and run.
I don't think Biden was particularly pathological... but he had a massive ego. And his dogs were named Governor and Senator right out of college. He denied claiming when he was in elementary school that he would be President one day, subsequent to which the nuns went and grabbed his writing on the topic from his time in school, where he claimed exactly that. That's ego.
Biden was a corrupt grifter who should have been embarrassed by his kids, “Hunter is the smartest man I know,” plus, he’s a creep: https://lizlasorte.substack.com/p/meet-jack-and-dr-jane-obrien?r=76q58&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
He was a career polititian!
Stinging, but on point.
Politicians suck because the voters suck. This is our fault.
You’re right. We get the government we voted for and that’s why no democracy will survive.
A fix might be the requirement that all voters need to pass a civics test, thus eliminating a lot of voters who want the government to take of them. But since voting is at the state level, that will not happen. Big fix -those of us who want to take care of ourselves should be able opt out if we were truly free.
Amen.
Sounds a lot like an opinion asserted as a fact. Can you present an objective measure, a list of criteria that make a member of the House or Senate the worst? Is it only the best in service to their constituents that are re-elected as opposed to the best at fund raising?
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/reports/outside-money-inside-influence
Seems that the data support fund raising, including outside and special interest groups as the top correlate of election and re-election to Congress.
It is certainly OK to have an opinion. It is helpful to have an opinion with some supporting data.
They miss the point. What you want to know is what happens somewhere around the fourth beer.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Yeah, they can't put it "who would you like to get drunk with?" but that's what the phrase means. Just one beer? Why?
See Paul and Nancy Pelosi.
Except that would be the fourth box of wine?
Yep - clinking glasses everytime the S&P 500 gains a point.
08/11/26: Name of The Year: "Yascha Mounk."
Made me nostalgic about "Betty's Bathroom," a one-time thoroughbred horse.
Obviously, the politicians would hand you the tab to pay….
It would save a lot of paperwork.
It's nice that folks like you and Ann Althouse read the NYT so that normies don't have to.
Id love more coverage of what they stop covering.
Like how MSNBC has suddenly stopped caring about trans issues this year
I read it too for comic relief and a glimpse into parallel universes, although it typically results in blood pressure spikes. It helps that the $1/month fee is covered by a credit card so I don't have to feel like I'm personally contributing funding to the bird-cage liner of a propaganda rag. See, everyone rationalizes their actions including me!
Seriously, check with your local public library for free online access - Chicago public libraries use something called "Proquest".
Because, frankly, the NY Times and legacy media should be paying us to read their crap.
You left out the best part of Warren's embarassment. Not that she pretended to be a beer drinker but that she literally said "I think I'll get me a beer."
The epitome of a bourgeois pretending, phony, fake. Doesn’t speak volumes for the useful idiot voters in Massachusetts who keep electing Pocahontas despite all her duplicity and phoniness.
Can you imagine a less-fun aunt than Warren? Fun if you enjoy being lectured.
Kamala may have flunked the beer test, but I bet she aced the box wine test.
And the vodka tonic ...
Oh I'll bet she is fun to spend an evening with. Just not drinking a beer....
NYT skipped the beer test with Mandami and instead went with him to a dumpy Pakistani restaurant in Queens so he could prove his regular-guy bona fides. He claimed it was his favorite place to eat, then took his meal home in a bag because he was "too busy" to actually sit and eat. A more intrepid reporter would have undoubtedly seen a staffer flinging the doggy bag from his moving Escalade a block away, but no such luck from the fawning Times.
Trump won the "beer test," but Hilary was the runaway choice for the "drink the blood of her enemies test."
The NYT will twist itself in knots to push the agenda
Or just lie.
"heteronormative leisure tendencies" might be the greatest punk band name ever.
AOC is already winning back working-class folks by discussing the Overton Window theory of politics.
🤣😂🤣😂
Hey, Slate, Trump's a teetotaler.
It's almost a shame, though -- he'd be a drunk among drunks, I'd bet.
He pulls that off without alcohol.
"There's no situation that can't be worsened with a drink."
I am constantly amazed, Mr Taibbi, how you can take a topic on which I have a vague memory and fill in a wealth of detail that I had never suspected.
Thank you for writing the suspected but unknown history of our era.
Is it *really* fine, though, that the Times is doing a puff piece on this guy because they want the Republican to lose? You and I know the Times is the PR arm of the Democrat Party, but the paper sells itself as an ethical nonpartisan source of facts and analysis, and its readers/followers gleefully swallow that lie and all the lies that follow.
Oh Matt you HAVE to cover Nebraska politics! Both parties suing each other (and dems are getting sued by a county chair for sexual harrassment), both parties suing third parties to keep them off the ballot, and Osborn holding an "all are welcome" Soros rally and kicking out the press.
That reminds me of when WI and PA kicked the Green Party off the ballot, in 2020.
Right! And voters think elections aren't manipulated "for democracy"? Marc Elias and his team at Perkins Coie have gotten rich and cost the taxpayers millions plaything these kinds of games.
https://www.heritage.org/courts/commentary/top-democratic-election-lawyers-sanctioned-misleading-conduct
The WI Attorney General worked for Perkins Coie . Humm 🤔
Marc Elias has a lot of frequent flyer miles to Wisco
Elites try to appeal to downscale voters, so they set down the wine glass to sip a beer. No one wants to drink beer with a harridan like Elizabeth Warren.
Hey - I resemble that remark!
Since we can't get them here in the midwest, I'd suffer through EW if the beer was Heady Topper. But I would need at least 4.
I'd have a beer with you, Matt. :-)
My thought exactly!
"Fun Aunt." Why didn't Pete Buttigieg think of that?
Okay, now that's funny
"Guncle"
I've always thought it was a stupid litmus test. The president is privileged to be, for a time, the chief executive of the United States. We need energy and competence, just as I would expect -- and seek out -- in a surgeon, a dentist, a lawyer, a teacher, a plumber, an electrician, a mechanic, and a parent. I'm not looking for a friend, a drinking buddy, or Santa Claus.
America is a young and sometimes immature country. We prize celebrity over ability. And sometimes we pay for it.