The American public -- and the American political-industrial complex -- want to discuss these minor shooting events (provoked by the deceased) so they won't have to address the runaway fraud in Minnesota. A serious investigation into the rampant corruption -- NOT JUST IN MINNESOTA AND NOT JUST DEMOCRATS -- will upset the bipartisan cash cow that keeps the DC counties the richest in the nation.
Here's what I'm talking about. From the NY Post...
"Even as they push for information, Republican lawmakers are worried about potential blowback. 'We all live in glass houses, so to speak. I don’t, but my party does,' said Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Tex.), who chairs the Government Operations panel on the Oversight Committee."
Agree - it's a distraction from the rampant fraud not just in MN, across the govt. No wonder we have $38T in debt and little to show for it. And from the mission at hand, which is the removal of the illegal immigrants let in to the country by king Biden. This is a hit to the Democratic voting base of course.
I can't wait to listen to Walter explain why getting shot in the back at execution range was the fault of the victim. Oh boy oh boy! I really can't wait.
Exactly, asking "how many shots were fired", that can only be categorized as inflammatory. First of all, it not even relevant, unless some of the shots came from the deceased. We weren't hands on wrestling in the scrum, so opinions aren't based on anything other than other opinions. This video is far from helpful in trying to determine the "whys" of the incident. The only facts we know are that Alex was indeed armed and was refusing an officer's direction. If he was licensed to carry, he must not have learned much from training. Legal carry doesn't magically exempt you from obeying law enforcement, in fact it encumbers the licensee with more responsibility.
I’d like to hear your thoughts about why Pretti carried enough ammo to kill half the US Senate to a riot, keeping in mind that the federal statute makes attempts to obstruct or intimidate law enforcement officers a crime. Some accounts claim he had no ID, but I think we should wait for the evidence on that.
He would have been legally justified in shooting those feds when they began beating him in the face with a metal can without even trying to arrest him by the way. No attempt to restrain his hands or tell him he’s under arrest, just spraying and beating him.
Sequence of events is important. Several agents placating a guy who intervened in their work, hear an agent say "gun, gun" and then a shot rings out. That first shot was from Pretti's gun. Which means Pretti had one chambered and the weapon was switched off safe. Why? Surrounding agents couldn't know who had the gun that just went off. Just that the civilian in question had one. Or more. In addition, the weapon in question (Sig P320) has a clearly identified problem with spontaneous discharge. Did Pretti not know this? Or did he know this and chose to carry it around cocked and unlocked anyway? He made a whole host of poor decisions. Now he's dead from dumbassery. Call it a teaching moment
You have no idea where the first shot came from at all, you’re just repeating slop from the right wing media mill and relying on the “analysis” of grainy footage. You then base the rest of your increasingly delusional and paranoid argument off this false premise.
For one, if it was a negligent discharge as you claim, why didn’t the agent’s hand or the gun move at all? He had already disarmed Pretti and was walking away with his sig. Both are in frame on several angles during the first shot, his hand isn’t moved by recoil at all despite the fact that he would be unprepared for the recoil because you’re claiming the sig went off unexpectedly.
I will add that, unless one was involved in the heat of the moment , there is no way that an outside opinion means anything...How could any of the agents hear anything from each other? The crazies are there being crazy.
If a defense lawyer wants to present this argument to a judge and jury, fine. But we need a real prosecutor and a real judge and not a coverup that destroys the evidence and sends the perpetrators off to a new assignment to further terrorize the public.
Charlie, just because the Walz/Frey combo refuses to enforce the law doesn’t mean we should ignore it. Read the federal statute. It not only criminalizes any attempt to obstruct ICE, it also criminalizes attempts to intimidate ICE officers involved in a law enforcement operation. The vast majority of the “public” being “terrorized” by ICE are the ones creating the terror. If Walz/Frey started arresting lawbreakers, the terror would disappear overnight.
The stream hasn’t even started yet and right wingers are already in the comments lying about the facts and events while making up justifications for the latest government shooting of an American citizen.
A reflection of this administration which has already dispatched officials to lie about the victim being an attempted assassin who tried to kill as many federal agents as possible.
What will Walter Kirn’s defense of that behavior be this week?
Walter, I was wondering if you knew author Jim Harrison, since I think he was a part-time resident of Livingston. Also, as a suggestion for book selection, maybe Brown Dog as a place to start. Seems in keeping with rural America, anti-hero themed books like Train Dreams, perhaps with a somewhat warmer take. Just a suggestion. Big fan of ATW! keep it up. Ken L., Boulder CO
I wish someone would take ALL the tit for tat back and forth of DJT and TW. I would like to see it as a conversation. The only one I trust to do this is Matt and his team.
Let us honesty review, in a time line, what was said and who said it in its entirety up to this point.
During the last podcast, Walt pointed out "the right" won't battle in the streets and I suggested in a comment they have solid lives they don't wish to jeopardize. Afterward I wondered if the youthful voices on the right are battling in the streets in another way.
Rather than burning down the neighborhood CVS pharmacy, or blowing whistles and screaming and interfering with law enforcement, they are abandoning the gentleman's agreement about what can and cannot be discussed in polite society. Acutely aware the gentleman's agreement has been unidirectional for the past twenty years, they now revel in breaking every taboo. Those taboos, which were invariably identified and defined by the left -- and usually dependent upon a suspension of disbelief -- are no longer an effective way to control the population.
Frank Lee points out that there is not a constitutional right to protest.. The 1st amendment guarantees our right to "peacefully assemble". "No riots, no chaos, no burning s*** down, no intimidation, no blocking roads, no screaming obscenities. Peacefully assemble. You have the right to stand there..hold a sign...without trampling every one else's rights. The moment it becomes loud, destructive, coercive or threaten, it stops being protected and it becomes lawlessness."
I don't care. I don't care about people involved in being activists at stopping ICE from doing their job. Is ICE on edge? Probably and justifiably so...they are practically on combat duty in their own country. The bigger picture of why and who is behind thus is more important that some guy with a gun and no ID got killed because of his actions. I don't care. I care about the people behind destroying my country.
While it’s not illegal (where permitted) to bring a firearm to a protest, it is illegal to have, even a permitted gun,
WHILE committing a crime. Interfering with a law enforcement action is a crime. It’s tragic this happened, but I put the majority of fault on the “protestor” for setting these events in motion.
Walter is so naive. We have only a photo from ICE of a gun on a car seat claiming the gun was Pretti's. I'm sure they'd never plant evidence or lie. Pretti never pointed his gun at anyone and was a licensed firearm owner and Minn is a conceal carry state.
The American public -- and the American political-industrial complex -- want to discuss these minor shooting events (provoked by the deceased) so they won't have to address the runaway fraud in Minnesota. A serious investigation into the rampant corruption -- NOT JUST IN MINNESOTA AND NOT JUST DEMOCRATS -- will upset the bipartisan cash cow that keeps the DC counties the richest in the nation.
Here's what I'm talking about. From the NY Post...
"Even as they push for information, Republican lawmakers are worried about potential blowback. 'We all live in glass houses, so to speak. I don’t, but my party does,' said Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Tex.), who chairs the Government Operations panel on the Oversight Committee."
Agree - it's a distraction from the rampant fraud not just in MN, across the govt. No wonder we have $38T in debt and little to show for it. And from the mission at hand, which is the removal of the illegal immigrants let in to the country by king Biden. This is a hit to the Democratic voting base of course.
I can't wait to listen to Walter explain why getting shot in the back at execution range was the fault of the victim. Oh boy oh boy! I really can't wait.
Alex Pretti's death is a tragedy.
Let's not compound the tragedy by getting ahead of the investigation or by forgetting that people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
In your zeal, it *almost* seems as if "proving Walter wrong" is more important to you than the poor fellow who got killed.
Maybe take a moment of silence to figure out what your real priorities are?
And on edit, Walter Kirn isn't justifying the shooting, so maybe it's you (excuse the indelicate pun) going off half-cocked?
Exactly, asking "how many shots were fired", that can only be categorized as inflammatory. First of all, it not even relevant, unless some of the shots came from the deceased. We weren't hands on wrestling in the scrum, so opinions aren't based on anything other than other opinions. This video is far from helpful in trying to determine the "whys" of the incident. The only facts we know are that Alex was indeed armed and was refusing an officer's direction. If he was licensed to carry, he must not have learned much from training. Legal carry doesn't magically exempt you from obeying law enforcement, in fact it encumbers the licensee with more responsibility.
I’d like to hear your thoughts about why Pretti carried enough ammo to kill half the US Senate to a riot, keeping in mind that the federal statute makes attempts to obstruct or intimidate law enforcement officers a crime. Some accounts claim he had no ID, but I think we should wait for the evidence on that.
Yes, and that's what people can no longer do these days. We are taught to react, to show rage, instead of waiting for the facts.
That guy was no angel, I'm pretty sure he was jaywalking when he stepped off the curb to help that lady who was getting maced.
Guys with loaded, defective guns probably shouldn't be jaywalking
He would have been legally justified in shooting those feds when they began beating him in the face with a metal can without even trying to arrest him by the way. No attempt to restrain his hands or tell him he’s under arrest, just spraying and beating him.
Any idiot carrying a P320 was gonna shoot himself or an innocent bystander anyway, sooner or later. The world is not going to miss someone that stupid
So he was doing the 2nd Amendment wrong?
Yes. The 2nd amendment requires one to use some common sense. He failed
>So he was doing the 2nd Amendment wrong?
The "well regulated" part, presumably.
Sequence of events is important. Several agents placating a guy who intervened in their work, hear an agent say "gun, gun" and then a shot rings out. That first shot was from Pretti's gun. Which means Pretti had one chambered and the weapon was switched off safe. Why? Surrounding agents couldn't know who had the gun that just went off. Just that the civilian in question had one. Or more. In addition, the weapon in question (Sig P320) has a clearly identified problem with spontaneous discharge. Did Pretti not know this? Or did he know this and chose to carry it around cocked and unlocked anyway? He made a whole host of poor decisions. Now he's dead from dumbassery. Call it a teaching moment
You have no idea where the first shot came from at all, you’re just repeating slop from the right wing media mill and relying on the “analysis” of grainy footage. You then base the rest of your increasingly delusional and paranoid argument off this false premise.
For one, if it was a negligent discharge as you claim, why didn’t the agent’s hand or the gun move at all? He had already disarmed Pretti and was walking away with his sig. Both are in frame on several angles during the first shot, his hand isn’t moved by recoil at all despite the fact that he would be unprepared for the recoil because you’re claiming the sig went off unexpectedly.
But that didn’t show up on any of the video.
I will add that, unless one was involved in the heat of the moment , there is no way that an outside opinion means anything...How could any of the agents hear anything from each other? The crazies are there being crazy.
If a defense lawyer wants to present this argument to a judge and jury, fine. But we need a real prosecutor and a real judge and not a coverup that destroys the evidence and sends the perpetrators off to a new assignment to further terrorize the public.
Charlie, just because the Walz/Frey combo refuses to enforce the law doesn’t mean we should ignore it. Read the federal statute. It not only criminalizes any attempt to obstruct ICE, it also criminalizes attempts to intimidate ICE officers involved in a law enforcement operation. The vast majority of the “public” being “terrorized” by ICE are the ones creating the terror. If Walz/Frey started arresting lawbreakers, the terror would disappear overnight.
Wait until all the facts come out. Matt and Walter are insightful and intelligent journalists who actually understand the meaning of the word.
The stream hasn’t even started yet and right wingers are already in the comments lying about the facts and events while making up justifications for the latest government shooting of an American citizen.
A reflection of this administration which has already dispatched officials to lie about the victim being an attempted assassin who tried to kill as many federal agents as possible.
What will Walter Kirn’s defense of that behavior be this week?
Walter, I was wondering if you knew author Jim Harrison, since I think he was a part-time resident of Livingston. Also, as a suggestion for book selection, maybe Brown Dog as a place to start. Seems in keeping with rural America, anti-hero themed books like Train Dreams, perhaps with a somewhat warmer take. Just a suggestion. Big fan of ATW! keep it up. Ken L., Boulder CO
Probably on the money...never forget the killing of the legislator (and her husband) who voted to deny welfare to illegals....
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/jd-vance-notes-something-very-important-about-minneapolis-chaos
Correlation is not causation, just remember.
I wish someone would take ALL the tit for tat back and forth of DJT and TW. I would like to see it as a conversation. The only one I trust to do this is Matt and his team.
Let us honesty review, in a time line, what was said and who said it in its entirety up to this point.
Let's see who escalates what.
I trust neither TW nor DJT.
For some reason this platform glitches and I have to watch Live ATW on YT. I hope that gets fixed someday.
During the last podcast, Walt pointed out "the right" won't battle in the streets and I suggested in a comment they have solid lives they don't wish to jeopardize. Afterward I wondered if the youthful voices on the right are battling in the streets in another way.
Rather than burning down the neighborhood CVS pharmacy, or blowing whistles and screaming and interfering with law enforcement, they are abandoning the gentleman's agreement about what can and cannot be discussed in polite society. Acutely aware the gentleman's agreement has been unidirectional for the past twenty years, they now revel in breaking every taboo. Those taboos, which were invariably identified and defined by the left -- and usually dependent upon a suspension of disbelief -- are no longer an effective way to control the population.
Frank Lee points out that there is not a constitutional right to protest.. The 1st amendment guarantees our right to "peacefully assemble". "No riots, no chaos, no burning s*** down, no intimidation, no blocking roads, no screaming obscenities. Peacefully assemble. You have the right to stand there..hold a sign...without trampling every one else's rights. The moment it becomes loud, destructive, coercive or threaten, it stops being protected and it becomes lawlessness."
So why were all those J6 people pardoned?
I don't care. I don't care about people involved in being activists at stopping ICE from doing their job. Is ICE on edge? Probably and justifiably so...they are practically on combat duty in their own country. The bigger picture of why and who is behind thus is more important that some guy with a gun and no ID got killed because of his actions. I don't care. I care about the people behind destroying my country.
While it’s not illegal (where permitted) to bring a firearm to a protest, it is illegal to have, even a permitted gun,
WHILE committing a crime. Interfering with a law enforcement action is a crime. It’s tragic this happened, but I put the majority of fault on the “protestor” for setting these events in motion.
Trump and Walz already took steps to deescalate, which hopefully continue
There it is!!! LOL...well funded, well organized insurrection, he says. Maybe people are upset...even scared.
Walter is so naive. We have only a photo from ICE of a gun on a car seat claiming the gun was Pretti's. I'm sure they'd never plant evidence or lie. Pretti never pointed his gun at anyone and was a licensed firearm owner and Minn is a conceal carry state.
With no ID on him, it has been reported from the gitgo.