The American public -- and the American political-industrial complex -- want to discuss these minor shooting events (provoked by the deceased) so they won't have to address the runaway fraud in Minnesota. A serious investigation into the rampant corruption -- NOT JUST IN MINNESOTA AND NOT JUST DEMOCRATS -- will upset the bipartisan cash cow that keeps the DC counties the richest in the nation.
Here's what I'm talking about. From the NY Post...
"Even as they push for information, Republican lawmakers are worried about potential blowback. 'We all live in glass houses, so to speak. I don’t, but my party does,' said Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Tex.), who chairs the Government Operations panel on the Oversight Committee."
Agree - it's a distraction from the rampant fraud not just in MN, across the govt. No wonder we have $38T in debt and little to show for it. And from the mission at hand, which is the removal of the illegal immigrants let in to the country by king Biden. This is a hit to the Democratic voting base of course.
That's pretty much my take as well. Matt thinks that this is a loser for republicans. Trump's tone deaf response to Good and Pretti's deaths will probably cost him some support. However, the circumstances surrounding these shootings are such that people will see what they want to see, and I don't think the deaths of these two people are going to change many minds.
Where Trump can win the public is over quashing dark money/NGO interference of law enforcement. The public is very tired of Big Protest. For better or worse, Trump was elected to fix the immigration problem, and after the 9 billion in fraud that was uncovered in Minnesota, it is a reasonable place to target. I find signalgate quite troubling. It's still to early to say how troubling, but if there has been cooperation between paid out of state protestors and local law enforcement and politicians, well, that's very troubling to put it mildly.
Remember that a lot of people are like me and other former Dems here, secretly hoping Trump crushes the extreme left so we can openly call ourselves sensible Democrats again.
yep. the idiots on the ground are pawns for this purpose. it is just statistical probability that there will be people getting killed. You just need the right people standing by ready to create the right optics.
Spot on. Shawn Ryan had on Steve Robinson from the Maine Wire last week and it was the most infuriating podcast I’ve heard in awhile, about the rampant fraud in Maine (and all over the US) that rivals that in Minnesota - and is perhaps even more lubricious in nature with these asshole Somalis and their Democrat enablers. And no one does anything.
A minor shooting event provoked by the deceased? I guess it's minor cuz you weren't shot, if it had been you shot then I suspect it would be a major event. How is it possible you're missing the second amendment argument. Patel has even come out now and said it's illegal to bring a firearm to a protest. Republicans should be defending this poor ICU nurse who just got blown away. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling...
How was he supporting government fraud? Anybody who doesn't want to be a revolutionary nowadays needs to consider what it means to be an American. The Trump administration and the FBI are now attacking the second amendment and Republicans are remaining silent? You people really don't understand the consequences of what is going on do you?
He also 1. didn't take ID with him 2. brought 2x mags 3. now appears to have deleted all his social media accounts prior to the last encounter. 4. Was told by his father to "not go to protests and do something stupid because of how angry he was". Seems like the actions of somebody who wanted to take a one-way trip.
Thank goodness, Walter finally brought up color revolutions. Yes, I sense this is what is going on! There are global powers that have been lying in wait for a long time.
The word "choreography" came to mind recently as I have watched the events unfold in MN. As in the chaotic scenes are choreographed by the very clever puppet masters behind the scenes. The intent being to flood the news media with images of violence, violence that would not exist if it were not created by the choreographers, and use these images of chaos and violence to sway public opinion, sway the polls, with the ultimate goal to win the midterms.
Claiming that ICE is provoking the chaos is simply part of the fabricated script. Arranging these supposed grassroots "colour revolutions" -- which are not grassroots at all -- is one of the tactics the globalists have become expert at.
You are hitting the nail on the head, Biff. The puppetmasters have arranged these scenes for 170 years now, so they are very well practiced. They know exactly how to make the onlookers jump to certain conclusions which will benefit those masters.
They are much like stage-magicians who know all the tricks.
Agreed. It is disappointing to see him dive into the minutiae of each and every incident and reflect on how those details may alter public opinion. Take a step back and look at the fundamentals of the larger picture. Matt seems to be wasting his enormous journalistic talent with attempting to look at every possible aspect of every one of these tragic events. It's chaos and the cause of the chaos is the rhetoric of the dem leadership. One could just as well get into every detail of every abuse (fingers bitten off) rioters damaging hotels and security personnel while MN police stand by and watch - local police being ordered to stand down and do nothing while the law is being broken right in front of them. These are larger issue topics that should override one accidental shooting. "Peaceful Protestors" constantly getting in the face of armed ICE agents, impeding their movement and ability to enforce federal law, encouraged to do so by their governor and mayor and other leaders, especially while carrying a firearm, is setting up more tragic and unnecessary deaths.
These Minneapolis leftwing street-theatre types have been set-up as the Useful Idiots. Just as the Communists always arrange Useful Idiots.
However, it is in the very definition of a Useful Idiot not to realize that your cause is phony and that you are actually serving a tyrannical power. All the while believing fervently that you are doing something noble and heroic.
And then your masters get rid of you. As you stare at them in utter astonishment. Sorry folks, but your type will have to learn the hard way.
Disagree , Matt is committed to not declaring any specific except for what can be proved with evidence. It leaves both sides wanting. But that’s good. He ain’t gonna be a cheerleader.
I don't think you understand what I am saying. Though you are welcome to your opinion.
How much background reading have you done, in the wide and relevant fields? Because conclusions off the top of your head will not suffice.
Matt is certainly not going after the evidence. Only what he believes the "evidence" entails. Since in his mind evidence involves only what can be seen in active terms.
Matt has no concept of the psychological tactics being used, and the evidence for that. He assesses this situation within a very narrow sphere which fails to cover what is actually the power and the orders behind the scenes.
This is scripted theatre in Minneapolis, but Matt falls over himself to look at the charade from different angles as if the whole thing was an authentic grassroots protest. That is his first and major mistake. He thinks this approach means he is being objective, when actually it means he has been duped from the start.
I don't mind if Matt continues being left of center as long as he is intellectually honest . Did anyone notice how rushed the beginning of ATW was? Couldn't let Walter see and comment on those videos..
The further left you go, the less intellectual honesty there is. The two just don't go together.
In the case of Matt, he is oblivious to the actual goings-on. And he likes it that way. No acknowledgement of a psychological layer being involved here. Matt doesn't do Psychology -- which means he misses a huge swathe of what is happening. And he does not do the sort of history of the Deep State that historian Carroll Quigley gave us (back in 1966). So that leaves precious little to work with. And I'm afraid it shows.
Matt is insane on this issue. I can’t listen to him stammer about things he has no information on and make proclamations with zero insight or knowledge. Just absolutely embarrassing.
Every time I listen to this podcast I remember why I don’t listen to it very often.
Tucker just dropped an excellent video investigation on UN migrant movement. The UN employees out in the open call the United Nations’The Mafia’. Imagine watching The Sopranos, now with taxpayer funded international asylum kickbacks in the billions. Cash only no wire transfers
This is discussed today on the Promethean Action website. They name Rachel Sayre of the Minneapolis Management Department as the chief plotter and pusher of this.
Reminds me of the LA Mayor during the massive fires there.
I can't wait to listen to Walter explain why getting shot in the back at execution range was the fault of the victim. Oh boy oh boy! I really can't wait.
Exactly, asking "how many shots were fired", that can only be categorized as inflammatory. First of all, it not even relevant, unless some of the shots came from the deceased. We weren't hands on wrestling in the scrum, so opinions aren't based on anything other than other opinions. This video is far from helpful in trying to determine the "whys" of the incident. The only facts we know are that Alex was indeed armed and was refusing an officer's direction. If he was licensed to carry, he must not have learned much from training. Legal carry doesn't magically exempt you from obeying law enforcement, in fact it encumbers the licensee with more responsibility.
Who in their right mind would get in the faces of these officers (who for weeks have been subjected to deliberate psychological stressors under the urging of puppet masters who know exactly what that can produce) while carrying a weapon?
Very true. Glad someone else is pointing out that the puppetmasters knew exactly what they were doing in arranging these situations. They WANTED violence. It serves their purpose. And they are quite aware that the ICE officers can be pushed only so far before they might crack. So the tactic is to get the Useful Idiots to goad them....and hope for a tragedy which they can use.
Finally, somebody said it!!! Can you imagine the nervous systems of these guys after weeks of purposeful harassment & goading of all forms. The protesters are in a more assault mode knowing full well the potential for such outcomes -- and so many pretend otherwise! I wonder if they feel any regret for what the role they played.
Agreed. Imagine stepping onto an ice-rink and wrestling with pepper-sprayed angry adults armed with hand guns. What can go wrong? Maybe Matt thinks that carrying a weapon to a confrontation with law officers legally carrying out their duties confers upon these clowns the special authority to interfere with ICE officers, even more so with a fake badge.
In the end, unwatchable - Matt seemed more upset about the shooting than his football, perhaps he feels guilty for having fun this weekend - which is the point - no fun for anyone according to the Sanctuary-City Segretationists.
Here's a question for Matt - would he let his wife, friends, or relations step onto icy streets to interfere with armed law officers while purposefully carrying a weapon - like the weapon is something we need to bring to the confrontation, just coz, in a city where one person has recently been shot by cops in a confusing confrontation on icy roads? If Matt's answer is damn straight, I would - then he at least believes his "argument" has merit.
The same goes for all the stay-at-home dumb asses who have never served or risked their lives so the rest of us can sleep easily. The 'health-care professional?" thinks that carrying a weapon into a confrontation into the same icy streets to confront cops couldn't possible result in another unwanted civilian fatality? - this is the mental architecture of the over-educated idiot - unless, of course, what he really sought deep down was martyrdom.
Shooting him after he was disarmed can’t be right, however his actions in the fatal incident and especially the previous one show he was literally asking for something like this to happen. Some on the left seem to think that either 2A is a dead letter (which they prefer) or it’s a license to kill & be a vigilante, total indemnification of any & all behavior with a gun (which they think pro-2A people want). The latter is similar to their apparent belief that 1A protects trespassing & disrupting church services (when they do it).
We don't know that he refused the officer's direction, do we? The run up isn't entirely clear, he reacts to the woman being pushed to the ground. Once he's pepper sprayed, his movements seem consistent with what I'd expect of the pain from that while being subdued.
I’d like to hear your thoughts about why Pretti carried enough ammo to kill half the US Senate to a riot, keeping in mind that the federal statute makes attempts to obstruct or intimidate law enforcement officers a crime. Some accounts claim he had no ID, but I think we should wait for the evidence on that.
Agreed. Matt's ready to emote, without taking the time "from football" to determine who shot first, or how many shots were fired? But hey "we know what we saw!"
I am a concealed weapons carrier, I typically have one mag in weapon and at least 2 extra close by or on my person. (Former Boy Scout,"Be prepared")
The issue in my mind is interacting with LEO with weapon, LAST THING to do when carrying. I have had interaction with LE while carrying, even one time allowing myself to be handcuffed while they checked my cred's. (I was taking my dogs to a local bike trail park before it officially opened) Point is, I appreciated their position and cooperated. Ultimately I passed the check, we talked weapons,ammo and holster/weapon retention. It's important to know and understand that LEO's are human beings are doing a job that you couldn't pay 99% of Americans to do.
He would have been legally justified in shooting those feds when they began beating him in the face with a metal can without even trying to arrest him by the way. No attempt to restrain his hands or tell him he’s under arrest, just spraying and beating him.
Andrew, this is a minor variation of the “he should have shot the killer in the foot or shot the gun out of his hands” argument. In my military career and in civilian life, I’ve been surrounded by armed uniformed personnel pointing guns at me 3 times. On all 3 occasions I had, from my personal perspective, done nothing wrong. The people with the guns disagreed. I was unarmed, and on each occasion, I followed “Jim’s Law of Survival: comply first, litigate (explain) later.” Pretti simply needed to surrender. We can question/ analyze the situation as more evidence is available. But actually caring about Pretti’s death requires educating the public to understand exactly what caused it, and what could have prevented it. If people stay away from ICE enforcement actions, their probability of being shot by ICE becomes vanishingly small. A corollary relevant to Pretti:If you are a large person, people will automatically see you as more dangerous and threatening. In a melee, this may work to your disadvantage.
While you have a 2nd Amendment right to carry a gun, it's dangerous to carry one into an airport or the Capitol building. That said, once he was disarmed shooting him was murder or a horrendous mistake. Good luck getting accountability from any federal agency though.
I'm surprised after January 6th where protesters were exercising "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" (without guns) that people are not carrying their protests against ICE to the Government in DC (which is the target noted in the First Amendment). Of course, over 300 of the 1500+ January 6th protesters were charged with FELONY Obstruction of a Federal Process (most were charged with MISDEMEANOR trespassing). At some point these protesters must be crossing lines and shouldn't those be also charged with FELONY Obstruction of a Federal Process (ICE carrying out deportation orders?) I'm all for protesting, IT'S OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT but it would be more effective (though even more dangerous) "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" directly rather than harassing those implementing the government's orders.
Once he was disarmed, he was objectively not a threat. But from the officer's perspective, which matters for his criminal liability, he may still have been reasonably perceived as being a threat by the shooter. For example:
- the officer may not have been aware he had been disarmed of the known weapon.
- if the first shot was the P320 accidentally discharging in the hands of the grey jacketed officer, it may have been reasonable to assume he had a second gun, provided that his hands were obscured.
Consider that some Conceal Carry persons may have a second weapon, a knife or ankle holster. A LEO cannot reasonably or objectively know that a person (even potentially disarmed ) is no longer a threat. That is dangerous to a LEO , who is trained to stop the threat , esp. if the perp. Is/was armed and resisting.
These protests seem more like the fake ones that USAID, NED and other US-funded groups do for coups, color revolutions, regime changes and "insurgencies". (Everything bad the US does abroad eventually comes home.) Wonder who is funding this operation? Unlikely it has grass roots.
I will help, resisting arrest while armed. Any one familiar with Concealed
Carry will tell you, if you resist a LEO with a weapon , chances are you will get shot DEAD! Front, back does not matter. Use of force laws are always on the side of LEO .( Supreme Court precedents)
I have to wonder, for instance, whether the ice agent(s) who shot, had more an hour of sleep, uninterrupted by airhorn blasts, over several previous nights.
Agreed. They are only human. I think it is very important to have a buffer force between ICE and the protestors. They could escort ICE and set perimeters, with crowd control being their sole duty. There is way too much face-to-face here.
The whistles alone will increase stress and decrease cognitive function. The last thing we want is ICE to have to be distracted with dual roles, as it decreases the chance that both can be performed professionally.
Since the state seems unwilling to participate in federal coordination to keep the activities safe, probably could to federalize the National Guard to explicitly serve that role, with the public safety of all involved being the rationale.
The stream hasn’t even started yet and right wingers are already in the comments lying about the facts and events while making up justifications for the latest government shooting of an American citizen.
A reflection of this administration which has already dispatched officials to lie about the victim being an attempted assassin who tried to kill as many federal agents as possible.
What will Walter Kirn’s defense of that behavior be this week?
Andrew, one person carrying easily enough ammo to kill a dozen people got involved in a melee with ICE officers. The facts are in dispute. I totally agree that transparency is important. Incidentally, I was arguing for transparency for several years while Democrats were in power and refused to release any of the January 06 camera footage, except for a few snippets of carefully selected shots. A few minutes out of thousands of hours of footage. Were you arguing for transparency then?
Of course I was for transparency then, what kind of a question is that? You are completely distracting from the fact that this administration is lying about American citizens they kill being domestic terrorists who showed up to kill as many feds as possible.
That is an unforgivable, provable lie in the case of both Pretti and Good.
I didn’t give a shit about Jan 6th actually I was celebrating with memes of Congress people
cowering on the floor with the captions “war pigs crawling.”
You don’t know anything about me. But I know something about you - you’re a light-switch brained tribalist who categorizes everybody into an “us or them” based on their agreement with your preconceived notions. That’s why you assumed I’m some kind of Democrat or liberal who was all upset about Jan 6th.
While I think there is a good chance the officers aren't criminally liable, I don't think that Pretti could be characterized as seeking a melee with ICE officers.
From what I've seen of the video, he naturally reacts to a woman being pushed down to the curb, and then the ICE officer moves into his path and pepper sprays him once there was marginal contact.
Also, whether he was carrying ammo or not is irrelevant, as it is his right to for defensive purposes. I wouldn't have changed my opinion of Rittenhouse simply because he had additional ammo.
I think, in both cases, it is unwise to take weapons into a chaotic protest environment, as chaos and guns tend to create their own problems. But others might make a different self-defense calculation.
This week, Walter gifted us with what might be the most idiotic justification ever for labeling an American a domestic terrorist who was looking to go on a murder rampage. The evidence - he had a sight on his gun meant to “lock on” (Walter’s words) to a target.
To steal his favorite phrase, “in other words,” Walter’s evidence of domestic terrorism is that the pistol had a sight that’s used to aim at targets with. Walter said he’s “never seen anything like it.” Never seen a sight that’s used for aiming huh?
God damn. Just utterly brain-dead. Then he said the sight was for acquiring targets at “long range.” Again, this sight was a holographic sight on a pistol, a weapon not notorious for its range and accuracy. But Walter sees a red dot sight on a pistol, something that literally replaces the iron sights with a red fucking dot, and calls it a mechanism to “lock on” to targets at “range” and that he’s never heard of nor seen anything like it before.
And he pretends to be a rural guy familiar with guns. Amazing. I’m just stunned. If you’re going to engage in apologetics for the Trump admin you could at least make it coherent Walter.
That Matt shares a podcast with this fucking moronic liar is a disgrace to his own reputation.
I like Walter's literary analysis but this is not the first time he's gone way over his waders pretending to be a gun guy. When Tim Walz did his hunting photo op he had a whole spiel about duck hunting shotguns holding 5 or 6 rounds compared to the gentlemanly pheasant guns.
Red dot sights are not advanced weaponry, an extra mag is not intent to kill, and a p320 is a dumb choice to carry these days, but not a damn hand cannon. If anything it's evidence the guy wasn't a serious shooter.
Matt has the patience of a saint. Walter was downright idiotic yesterday. I don’t even think he has watched any of the videos, just completely talking out of his ass. It was an embarrassing display of ignorance
As a general statement, perhaps...but I look at the big picture and how seemingly separate actions fit together...even if I didn't catch it at the time...
Our right to bear arms is sensibly premised on a personal duty to exercise this right responsibly within a broader project of maintaining public order and safety. I'm a CCP holder - It's not a casual endeavor.
The combustible volatility of that situation entirely overwhelmed the proposition of personal and public safety - meaning - the presence of his sidearm was a danger to himself and to the other protesters.
No one deserved to get shot but they wouldn't have if that gun had been left at home.
Very similar to the judgement of Rittenhouse. When he was running around with a gun, he easily could have been shot by police drawing a wrong, but reasonable assumption. The whole situation becomes volatile and hard to control when you mix guns with chaos.
This is exactly how I see their exchange. Once I understood that (took a while! And I've been listening since essentially the start of ATW), it made a lot more sense and I felt less frustrated and more appreciative of their different approaches and offerings to the show.
Sequence of events is important. Several agents placating a guy who intervened in their work, hear an agent say "gun, gun" and then a shot rings out. That first shot was from Pretti's gun. Which means Pretti had one chambered and the weapon was switched off safe. Why? Surrounding agents couldn't know who had the gun that just went off. Just that the civilian in question had one. Or more. In addition, the weapon in question (Sig P320) has a clearly identified problem with spontaneous discharge. Did Pretti not know this? Or did he know this and chose to carry it around cocked and unlocked anyway? He made a whole host of poor decisions. Now he's dead from dumbassery. Call it a teaching moment
You have no idea where the first shot came from at all, you’re just repeating slop from the right wing media mill and relying on the “analysis” of grainy footage. You then base the rest of your increasingly delusional and paranoid argument off this false premise.
For one, if it was a negligent discharge as you claim, why didn’t the agent’s hand or the gun move at all? He had already disarmed Pretti and was walking away with his sig. Both are in frame on several angles during the first shot, his hand isn’t moved by recoil at all despite the fact that he would be unprepared for the recoil because you’re claiming the sig went off unexpectedly.
I will add that, unless one was involved in the heat of the moment , there is no way that an outside opinion means anything...How could any of the agents hear anything from each other? The crazies are there being crazy.
If a defense lawyer wants to present this argument to a judge and jury, fine. But we need a real prosecutor and a real judge and not a coverup that destroys the evidence and sends the perpetrators off to a new assignment to further terrorize the public.
Charlie, just because the Walz/Frey combo refuses to enforce the law doesn’t mean we should ignore it. Read the federal statute. It not only criminalizes any attempt to obstruct ICE, it also criminalizes attempts to intimidate ICE officers involved in a law enforcement operation. The vast majority of the “public” being “terrorized” by ICE are the ones creating the terror. If Walz/Frey started arresting lawbreakers, the terror would disappear overnight.
Ok, so actually arrest people and charge them with obstruction and give them a trial, etc. Say, "you're under arrest!" Get a prosecutor. Enforce the law. Wear a badge. Show your face. Show some pride in your work.
But no, they have no interest in doing any of that. Everything is just an excuse to vent their anger and frustration. An excuse to mace and shove people to the ground and beat them and shoot them.
I don't think it has been confirmed yet that the first shot is from Pretti's gun, but it seems very likely to me. That said, the company has insisted the guns are safe and in wide use, so he could have bought into their propaganda.
Given the way it was kitted, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a gun he liked from a video game, like Call of Duty. Just based on the YouTube videos I've seen, it seems like a terribly unsafe gun to own.
Where is this idea the gun was kitted out coming from? P320s are super common despite their reputation of accidental discharge the last few years. They were standard militsry and police sidearms for years. They come in 9 or 10mm, both of which are common everyday carry rounds. Red dot sights are almost standard equipment these days- my 70 year old dad has them.
This story has really demonstrated how clueless much of the right is about guns, not to mention gun laws.
I'm not a "gun guy" at all, and not claiming any expertise here -- please don't draw conclusions from that. If you are correct, I stand corrected.
I'm also not on the right (not on the left either).
I'm aware that they are common, and used by both millitary and police. I didn't mean to imply anything negative by it being kitted, other than it having a modular platform that might be an attractive weapon to someone that built a relationship to guns through video games. People -- especially gamers -- like things that are customizable.
If that is true, the deceased may have been unaware of that reputation for discharge. I can't imagine everyone that buys one is dialed in enough to be aware of it.
As for the augmentations, I did read a piece from someone that seemed to be a gun guy and he'd said there were a couple things modified from stock. Besides the sight, maybe it was the grip? I don't recall.
This comes up a lot in gun control discussions with people who don't know much about guns (no judgement). Changing the grip does nothing to make the gun more powerful, more capable of spraying bullets, more objectively dangerous, etc.
It can make it more lethal, but only in a good way: it can make the gun more accurate. I just don't see how that is a bad thing when you're talking about a weapon whose entire point is to put the bullet on target as accurately as possible. The last thing you want when using lethal force is for it to not be lethal, or to be lethal to a bystander. The same applies for red dot sights, upgraded barrels and triggers, and (for AR-15-type weapons) adjustable stocks, pistol grips, and other "lego" type customizations.
The fact that a gun has been customized really doesn't prove anything at all-- as you say, there's plenty who just want to accessorize. But to the extent such customizations fall within the normal scope of "kitting out" a gun (barring illegal modifications to convert to full-auto, for example), they're all made with the goal of making the gun perform better for the user, which is an objectively good goal.
Some modifications might make a gun impractical for daily carry, or optimized for range, use, but if you're going into a riot zone, the second piece of advice you'd likely get is to carry the gun you're most capable of shooting well. The first piece of advice you'd get is to not go.
To be clear, I'm a gun guy but not really a tactical gun guy. Tactical gun guys (which includes my 70 year old dad who is a competitive shooter) make fun of people like me. My guns get used for hunting, and I kill a lot of birds, a few coyotes, a few big game animals, and put down a few cows and deer that have been hit by cars every year.
The reputation for unintentional discharge with the Sig P320 is very well known in the gun world. Enough that when my boss told me he was buying a new Sig last year, he immediately clarified that it was not that model. Sig normally makes great guns, and it's not clear the P320 is as bad as its reputation, but it definitely has that reputation, and has been removed from service (at great expense) by many military and police units. For what it's worth, the manufacturer continues to insist that the reported incidents of accidental discharge are all user error. Some people believe that and still carry that model. Some people think that's legal/PR CYA, but it's been a PR disaster for the company.
As it is, I find it unlikely Pretti had a customized P320 but wasn't aware of its reputation. But the fact of the customization really doesn't mean much to me.
Well, I personally don't think following around law enforcement and harassing them is a good idea. I am surprised that so many are doing so. I can't imagine, say, following around our local Sheriff's department and pulling what is being pulled as they answer calls. And doing so with a gun, seems to open up a world of bad possibilities.
In a normal protest, it would be much safer -- but these are far from normal protests because they are sustained and pursue the officers out in the field using group tactics.
As for the company itself, I have no idea -- and agree that anyone sharing a video on YouTube has potential incentive. It could be that it is all due to user error, but I'd guess that some errors are probably easier to make than others.
I don't care. I don't care about people involved in being activists at stopping ICE from doing their job. Is ICE on edge? Probably and justifiably so...they are practically on combat duty in their own country. The bigger picture of why and who is behind thus is more important that some guy with a gun and no ID got killed because of his actions. I don't care. I care about the people behind destroying my country.
Yep. And independent journalists have laid it all out. Now I just wait somewhat patiently for the Administration to move on it in a way that will be effective. And I wait because it’s going to get so big and gnarly, that not even the MSM can ignore it or spin it from We The People.
It's also unfortunately two law enforcement agencies thrown into environments that are beyond their training. Most ICE and Border Patrol agents do not specialize in crowd control and riot control. National Guard MPs are but Walz won't deploy them to protect ICE operations. State Troopers have riot control training but again Walz won't deploy them. Add in that none of the agencies are trained for counter-insurgency.
Walter was spreading lies about a negligent discharge being the cause of the shooting, he didn't wait for any facts to come out, he simply spreads rumor. Intelligent?
Where does this all lead, my predicted end result.
Protesters intentionally created a forced‑error environment
Officers made a catastrophic, heartbreaking mistake with some cause
Mr. Pretti breached the core legal duties of a P2C holder by inserting himself into an active law‑enforcement action while armed
All three failures converged
He did not deserve to die
The events leading to Mr. Pretti’s death unfolded in an intentionally chaotic, high‑pressure environment engineered to force operational errors: crowd surges, relentless noise, communication disruption, and deliberate interference with officer movement. These conditions made it nearly impossible for officers to hear each other, maintain situational awareness, or reliably process commands. Video evidence shows that the disarmament of Mr. Pretti occurred roughly one second before shots were fired. A span so brief that officers were still visually searching for the weapon and could not realistically have processed any “weapon clear” communication, even if it had been made and they could have heard it! In the absence of the gun they believed they had just seen, the reaction appears driven by uncertainty: Where is the weapon now? Is it in his hand? Is he about to fire? Panic gripped someone.
This is an interval far too short for meaningful assessment or de‑escalation.
The broader protest environment is intended to induce mistakes: overwhelming noise, disrupted communication, sensory overload, and stress‑driven reactions. These factors can push even trained personnel into catastrophic errors. None of this excuses the outcome. Mr. Pretti should not be dead. But he came heavily armed, and as an armed citizen, he carried a heightened responsibility to avoid inserting himself into volatile situations because the law imposes stricter expectations on those who choose to carry a weapon in public. As a P2C holder, he would have been trained on these obligations. What follows explains how that legal framework applies to the moments leading up to the shooting.
They want mistakes; they now have two.
What were a P2C's requirements:
Minnesota law is explicit: under § 609.50 (Obstruction of Legal Process) and § 624.714 (Permit to Carry), a P2C (Permit to Carry) holder may not engage in any criminal conduct while armed. The moment Mr. Pretti stepped into the physical space between law enforcement and a protester already engaged with officers, he committed obstruction under § 609.50 — and at that instant, the protections of lawful carry no longer applied. Minnesota sentencing treats the presence of a firearm, even holstered and unused, as an aggravating factor because it elevates the risk to officers and bystanders.
Federal law mirrors this. Under 18 U.S.C. § 111, resisting, impeding, or interfering with federal officers is a crime, and subsection (b) adds a deadly‑weapon enhancement if the person is armed — even if the firearm stays holstered. Courts interpret mere possession during the offense as “involving” a weapon because it creates an immediate weapons‑retention threat. This is why federal agents escalate force rapidly when an armed individual inserts themselves into an arrest or use‑of‑force event.
And this is not unique to federal agents. A Minnesota P2C holder who did the same thing during a bar fight — stepping into the middle of state troopers or local police already hands‑on with a suspect — would face the exact same legal consequences. Once officers know a person is armed, any non‑cooperation becomes a potential deadly‑force scenario.
So in Mr. Pretti’s case, the critical moment was not when or if he drew a weapon — in the videos reviewed, it does not appear that he ever did. It was when he physically entered an active law‑enforcement action and intervened while armed. Under both Minnesota and federal law, that act alone constitutes obstruction, regardless of his intent, however “good or noble” one may feel those intentions were. And because he was armed, that obstruction is treated as a felony‑level threat due to the immediate weapons‑retention risk. His P2C training would have made clear that stepping into an active law‑enforcement action while armed is exactly the kind of conduct the law prohibits.
Finally, by most reports Mr. Pretti did not have ID or his P2C permit in his possession. Minnesota law requires a permit holder to carry both while armed, so he was already in violation of § 624.714 the moment he stepped outside with a firearm. This does not revoke the permit itself, but it does mean he was not lawfully carrying at the time — a problem he could have avoided simply by having the documents he agreed to carry when he received his P2C. It is difficult to understand why a trained permit holder would neglect something so basic, especially while choosing to enter a volatile situation while armed.
Apparently there was a very advanced sighting device on Pretti’s gun. Does not speak to a “benign” motive for bringing the gun to the protest.
We should wait for the total facts to emerge but all in all, it is sad but a direct result of a catastrophic error in judgment on Pretti’s part.
Given the nature of the Signal chats directing these protestors—many paid, along with “supplies” appearing—the true villains are those creating this chaos for a deliberate purpose to obfuscate the massive fraud. These folks are the ones that are using protestors like Fretti as cannon fodder for their nefarious purposes.
The additional magazines also speak to premeditation of some sort. Either that or some kind of vague paranoia that extra ammo would somehow be appropriate to bring.
yes it does prompt questions. While one is legally allowed to carry, and apparently Pretti had a concealed carry permit, one is also obliged to disclose that to law enforcement in such a situation. Might have been wiser for him to not interfere with law enforcement as well.
Sad for him and his parents of course, but his actions were spectacularly unwise.
I'd call anyone who brings a weapon to a protest -- including extra clips -- and doesn't bring his license AND then engages with law enforcement is mentally unhinged.
Thinking that interfering with law enforcement and actively resisting arrest is "mere obstruction" is something a drooling moron would write.
This artificially inseminated uprising is thinly veiled.. It's not like any previous historic uprising.. Certainly not one with a legitimate basis... What's going on in Minnesota is orchestrated by at least 4 primary sources? One, is the Fraud team led by Waltz, Omar, which is willing to destroy Minnesota just to keep from being fully exposed as participants in the Somali fraud.
The 2nd and more dangerous are the paid professional provocateurs.. Soros/Commie funded primarily.. Without them, this unrest becomes a nothing burger... This is the same team that exploited the George Floyd incident. Absolutely ruthless, experts who know how to artificially foment violence continuously..
3rd the Marxist/ Democrats hell bent on exploiting the situation to maximum advantage..
4th the mainstream media propaganda machine.. and they're brain dead spokesman like Don Lemon...
Not one of the four really care about the good citizens of Minnesota.. They wouldn't be doing what they're doing if they really cared about them
and we must remember..
Most of the Somali's are decent citizens.. too..
ICE must continue rounding up all illegal immigrants.. This is not optional if we are going to continue to be a nation of laws.. a Democratic Constitutional Republic..
Godspeed to the Trump administrations finding the financial evidence of those guilty of sedition.. in America...
It’s a sad day, but a Sig-Sauer P320 is recognized by law enforcement (and presumably ICE) as a very deadly and problematic firearm. It has a really light trigger pull which makes it prone to fire too easily. Enough of a reputation to pump up the adrenaline once law enforcement recognized what it was.
Theres literally no way for any member of law enforcement to recognize that gun until it was in the hands of law enforcement. And honestly the idea that most law enforcement are noticing the model of the gun in that moment is utterly laughable to anybody that's handled firearms.
If they're that jumpy, they're really bad at law enforcement. There may well be a reasonable belief narrative that justifies this shooting, but "we saw a gun and recognized it as a particularly scary model" ain't it.
The American public -- and the American political-industrial complex -- want to discuss these minor shooting events (provoked by the deceased) so they won't have to address the runaway fraud in Minnesota. A serious investigation into the rampant corruption -- NOT JUST IN MINNESOTA AND NOT JUST DEMOCRATS -- will upset the bipartisan cash cow that keeps the DC counties the richest in the nation.
Here's what I'm talking about. From the NY Post...
"Even as they push for information, Republican lawmakers are worried about potential blowback. 'We all live in glass houses, so to speak. I don’t, but my party does,' said Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Tex.), who chairs the Government Operations panel on the Oversight Committee."
Agree - it's a distraction from the rampant fraud not just in MN, across the govt. No wonder we have $38T in debt and little to show for it. And from the mission at hand, which is the removal of the illegal immigrants let in to the country by king Biden. This is a hit to the Democratic voting base of course.
That's pretty much my take as well. Matt thinks that this is a loser for republicans. Trump's tone deaf response to Good and Pretti's deaths will probably cost him some support. However, the circumstances surrounding these shootings are such that people will see what they want to see, and I don't think the deaths of these two people are going to change many minds.
Where Trump can win the public is over quashing dark money/NGO interference of law enforcement. The public is very tired of Big Protest. For better or worse, Trump was elected to fix the immigration problem, and after the 9 billion in fraud that was uncovered in Minnesota, it is a reasonable place to target. I find signalgate quite troubling. It's still to early to say how troubling, but if there has been cooperation between paid out of state protestors and local law enforcement and politicians, well, that's very troubling to put it mildly.
Nobody outside of politics is talking about MN.
Remember that a lot of people are like me and other former Dems here, secretly hoping Trump crushes the extreme left so we can openly call ourselves sensible Democrats again.
Remember ICE was there a month before the protests.
ICE was also there a month before the fraud started being caught on video.
Also all the other in your face protests across the country have stopped since the MN ones started.
These are not coincidences
yep. the idiots on the ground are pawns for this purpose. it is just statistical probability that there will be people getting killed. You just need the right people standing by ready to create the right optics.
This has all been carefully engineered, by powerful people who understand how to manipulate human psychology. Much like MK Ultra.
Spot on. Shawn Ryan had on Steve Robinson from the Maine Wire last week and it was the most infuriating podcast I’ve heard in awhile, about the rampant fraud in Maine (and all over the US) that rivals that in Minnesota - and is perhaps even more lubricious in nature with these asshole Somalis and their Democrat enablers. And no one does anything.
Good luck stopping the uniparty’s gravy train.
A minor shooting event provoked by the deceased? I guess it's minor cuz you weren't shot, if it had been you shot then I suspect it would be a major event. How is it possible you're missing the second amendment argument. Patel has even come out now and said it's illegal to bring a firearm to a protest. Republicans should be defending this poor ICU nurse who just got blown away. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling...
Was he a “poor ICU nurse” or a (wannabe) revolutionary?
I’m 2A all the way but supporting massive govt fraud and illegal entry isn’t the hill I’d choose to die on.
How was he supporting government fraud? Anybody who doesn't want to be a revolutionary nowadays needs to consider what it means to be an American. The Trump administration and the FBI are now attacking the second amendment and Republicans are remaining silent? You people really don't understand the consequences of what is going on do you?
Seems to me you are the person not understanding. As I just said to Andrew, it’s a revolution when you win; it’s a rebellion when you lose.
I want illegals removed, so I should go out and shoot protesters?
I am a taxpayer mad as hops at government enabling, overlooking, defending fraud, so whom do you suggest I go out and shoot?
He also 1. didn't take ID with him 2. brought 2x mags 3. now appears to have deleted all his social media accounts prior to the last encounter. 4. Was told by his father to "not go to protests and do something stupid because of how angry he was". Seems like the actions of somebody who wanted to take a one-way trip.
Thank goodness, Walter finally brought up color revolutions. Yes, I sense this is what is going on! There are global powers that have been lying in wait for a long time.
The word "choreography" came to mind recently as I have watched the events unfold in MN. As in the chaotic scenes are choreographed by the very clever puppet masters behind the scenes. The intent being to flood the news media with images of violence, violence that would not exist if it were not created by the choreographers, and use these images of chaos and violence to sway public opinion, sway the polls, with the ultimate goal to win the midterms.
And they keep saying that ICE is provoking the chaos.
How?
By enforcing immigration law?
Claiming that ICE is provoking the chaos is simply part of the fabricated script. Arranging these supposed grassroots "colour revolutions" -- which are not grassroots at all -- is one of the tactics the globalists have become expert at.
You are hitting the nail on the head, Biff. The puppetmasters have arranged these scenes for 170 years now, so they are very well practiced. They know exactly how to make the onlookers jump to certain conclusions which will benefit those masters.
They are much like stage-magicians who know all the tricks.
Agree. Engineered chaos. Color revolution in the USA. Globalists fighting for their livelihood.
https://youtu.be/rj7xI3xmIAk?si=NnE6SDG2QKFZYt89
It is a tactic long used by the Anglo-American Network out of Chatham House/Rhodes Trust in Britain.
Has everyone noticed who has headed Chatham House and the Rhodes Trust in Britain in 2024-2026?
Mark Carney was Chatham House President in 2024. Chrystia Freeland is to begin this summer as CEO of the Rhodes Trust.
Everyone really should understand these positions and why they are eye-popping, in terms of world globalists and their ambitions.
And Matt senses it too. So he should stop with the idea that the Trump administration should show "empathy". If he did it would be hypocritical.
I don't think that Matt really sees the big picture. He is caught in a very limited framework and belief system here.
Agreed. It is disappointing to see him dive into the minutiae of each and every incident and reflect on how those details may alter public opinion. Take a step back and look at the fundamentals of the larger picture. Matt seems to be wasting his enormous journalistic talent with attempting to look at every possible aspect of every one of these tragic events. It's chaos and the cause of the chaos is the rhetoric of the dem leadership. One could just as well get into every detail of every abuse (fingers bitten off) rioters damaging hotels and security personnel while MN police stand by and watch - local police being ordered to stand down and do nothing while the law is being broken right in front of them. These are larger issue topics that should override one accidental shooting. "Peaceful Protestors" constantly getting in the face of armed ICE agents, impeding their movement and ability to enforce federal law, encouraged to do so by their governor and mayor and other leaders, especially while carrying a firearm, is setting up more tragic and unnecessary deaths.
These Minneapolis leftwing street-theatre types have been set-up as the Useful Idiots. Just as the Communists always arrange Useful Idiots.
However, it is in the very definition of a Useful Idiot not to realize that your cause is phony and that you are actually serving a tyrannical power. All the while believing fervently that you are doing something noble and heroic.
And then your masters get rid of you. As you stare at them in utter astonishment. Sorry folks, but your type will have to learn the hard way.
Hate to say it, but Matt has become a Useful Idiot. He is as mind-blind here as can be.
As I have never been a foot-kissing Matt-groupie, I can give it to him straight up.
Disagree , Matt is committed to not declaring any specific except for what can be proved with evidence. It leaves both sides wanting. But that’s good. He ain’t gonna be a cheerleader.
I don't think you understand what I am saying. Though you are welcome to your opinion.
How much background reading have you done, in the wide and relevant fields? Because conclusions off the top of your head will not suffice.
Matt is certainly not going after the evidence. Only what he believes the "evidence" entails. Since in his mind evidence involves only what can be seen in active terms.
Matt has no concept of the psychological tactics being used, and the evidence for that. He assesses this situation within a very narrow sphere which fails to cover what is actually the power and the orders behind the scenes.
This is scripted theatre in Minneapolis, but Matt falls over himself to look at the charade from different angles as if the whole thing was an authentic grassroots protest. That is his first and major mistake. He thinks this approach means he is being objective, when actually it means he has been duped from the start.
I don't mind if Matt continues being left of center as long as he is intellectually honest . Did anyone notice how rushed the beginning of ATW was? Couldn't let Walter see and comment on those videos..
The further left you go, the less intellectual honesty there is. The two just don't go together.
In the case of Matt, he is oblivious to the actual goings-on. And he likes it that way. No acknowledgement of a psychological layer being involved here. Matt doesn't do Psychology -- which means he misses a huge swathe of what is happening. And he does not do the sort of history of the Deep State that historian Carroll Quigley gave us (back in 1966). So that leaves precious little to work with. And I'm afraid it shows.
Matt is insane on this issue. I can’t listen to him stammer about things he has no information on and make proclamations with zero insight or knowledge. Just absolutely embarrassing.
Every time I listen to this podcast I remember why I don’t listen to it very often.
Tucker just dropped an excellent video investigation on UN migrant movement. The UN employees out in the open call the United Nations’The Mafia’. Imagine watching The Sopranos, now with taxpayer funded international asylum kickbacks in the billions. Cash only no wire transfers
And Matt has NO clue, or pretends not to.
I'm doing a series of them on my Substack! Very interesting stuff for sure
This is discussed today on the Promethean Action website. They name Rachel Sayre of the Minneapolis Management Department as the chief plotter and pusher of this.
Reminds me of the LA Mayor during the massive fires there.
He brought it up just in time for the rainbow revolution
I can't wait to listen to Walter explain why getting shot in the back at execution range was the fault of the victim. Oh boy oh boy! I really can't wait.
Alex Pretti's death is a tragedy.
Let's not compound the tragedy by getting ahead of the investigation or by forgetting that people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
In your zeal, it *almost* seems as if "proving Walter wrong" is more important to you than the poor fellow who got killed.
Maybe take a moment of silence to figure out what your real priorities are?
And on edit, Walter Kirn isn't justifying the shooting, so maybe it's you (excuse the indelicate pun) going off half-cocked?
Exactly, asking "how many shots were fired", that can only be categorized as inflammatory. First of all, it not even relevant, unless some of the shots came from the deceased. We weren't hands on wrestling in the scrum, so opinions aren't based on anything other than other opinions. This video is far from helpful in trying to determine the "whys" of the incident. The only facts we know are that Alex was indeed armed and was refusing an officer's direction. If he was licensed to carry, he must not have learned much from training. Legal carry doesn't magically exempt you from obeying law enforcement, in fact it encumbers the licensee with more responsibility.
Who in their right mind would get in the faces of these officers (who for weeks have been subjected to deliberate psychological stressors under the urging of puppet masters who know exactly what that can produce) while carrying a weapon?
Very true. Glad someone else is pointing out that the puppetmasters knew exactly what they were doing in arranging these situations. They WANTED violence. It serves their purpose. And they are quite aware that the ICE officers can be pushed only so far before they might crack. So the tactic is to get the Useful Idiots to goad them....and hope for a tragedy which they can use.
Finally, somebody said it!!! Can you imagine the nervous systems of these guys after weeks of purposeful harassment & goading of all forms. The protesters are in a more assault mode knowing full well the potential for such outcomes -- and so many pretend otherwise! I wonder if they feel any regret for what the role they played.
Agreed. Imagine stepping onto an ice-rink and wrestling with pepper-sprayed angry adults armed with hand guns. What can go wrong? Maybe Matt thinks that carrying a weapon to a confrontation with law officers legally carrying out their duties confers upon these clowns the special authority to interfere with ICE officers, even more so with a fake badge.
In the end, unwatchable - Matt seemed more upset about the shooting than his football, perhaps he feels guilty for having fun this weekend - which is the point - no fun for anyone according to the Sanctuary-City Segretationists.
Here's a question for Matt - would he let his wife, friends, or relations step onto icy streets to interfere with armed law officers while purposefully carrying a weapon - like the weapon is something we need to bring to the confrontation, just coz, in a city where one person has recently been shot by cops in a confusing confrontation on icy roads? If Matt's answer is damn straight, I would - then he at least believes his "argument" has merit.
The same goes for all the stay-at-home dumb asses who have never served or risked their lives so the rest of us can sleep easily. The 'health-care professional?" thinks that carrying a weapon into a confrontation into the same icy streets to confront cops couldn't possible result in another unwanted civilian fatality? - this is the mental architecture of the over-educated idiot - unless, of course, what he really sought deep down was martyrdom.
That, I suspect, we'll never know.
Matt is an Absolutist. Absolutists don’t stop to engage the complications of what could go wrong.
Shooting him after he was disarmed can’t be right, however his actions in the fatal incident and especially the previous one show he was literally asking for something like this to happen. Some on the left seem to think that either 2A is a dead letter (which they prefer) or it’s a license to kill & be a vigilante, total indemnification of any & all behavior with a gun (which they think pro-2A people want). The latter is similar to their apparent belief that 1A protects trespassing & disrupting church services (when they do it).
We don't know that he refused the officer's direction, do we? The run up isn't entirely clear, he reacts to the woman being pushed to the ground. Once he's pepper sprayed, his movements seem consistent with what I'd expect of the pain from that while being subdued.
Wrestling with multiple LEO's ?
I’d like to hear your thoughts about why Pretti carried enough ammo to kill half the US Senate to a riot, keeping in mind that the federal statute makes attempts to obstruct or intimidate law enforcement officers a crime. Some accounts claim he had no ID, but I think we should wait for the evidence on that.
Yes, and that's what people can no longer do these days. We are taught to react, to show rage, instead of waiting for the facts.
Agreed. Matt's ready to emote, without taking the time "from football" to determine who shot first, or how many shots were fired? But hey "we know what we saw!"
Jim
I am a concealed weapons carrier, I typically have one mag in weapon and at least 2 extra close by or on my person. (Former Boy Scout,"Be prepared")
The issue in my mind is interacting with LEO with weapon, LAST THING to do when carrying. I have had interaction with LE while carrying, even one time allowing myself to be handcuffed while they checked my cred's. (I was taking my dogs to a local bike trail park before it officially opened) Point is, I appreciated their position and cooperated. Ultimately I passed the check, we talked weapons,ammo and holster/weapon retention. It's important to know and understand that LEO's are human beings are doing a job that you couldn't pay 99% of Americans to do.
✌️
IDK, but he seems like an excitable boy with a MH problem Larping martyr/messiah..
Yes, Drivers License or State ID and Concealed Weapon License,to carry legally. You cannot say its at home or your dog ate it!
That guy was no angel, I'm pretty sure he was jaywalking when he stepped off the curb to help that lady who was getting maced.
Guys with loaded, defective guns probably shouldn't be jaywalking
He would have been legally justified in shooting those feds when they began beating him in the face with a metal can without even trying to arrest him by the way. No attempt to restrain his hands or tell him he’s under arrest, just spraying and beating him.
Andrew, this is a minor variation of the “he should have shot the killer in the foot or shot the gun out of his hands” argument. In my military career and in civilian life, I’ve been surrounded by armed uniformed personnel pointing guns at me 3 times. On all 3 occasions I had, from my personal perspective, done nothing wrong. The people with the guns disagreed. I was unarmed, and on each occasion, I followed “Jim’s Law of Survival: comply first, litigate (explain) later.” Pretti simply needed to surrender. We can question/ analyze the situation as more evidence is available. But actually caring about Pretti’s death requires educating the public to understand exactly what caused it, and what could have prevented it. If people stay away from ICE enforcement actions, their probability of being shot by ICE becomes vanishingly small. A corollary relevant to Pretti:If you are a large person, people will automatically see you as more dangerous and threatening. In a melee, this may work to your disadvantage.
Any idiot carrying a P320 was gonna shoot himself or an innocent bystander anyway, sooner or later. The world is not going to miss someone that stupid
Sig is still not in agreement the P320 FCU is defective thus no recall
or fix. My Outdoor Gun Range prohibits their use for what it is worth. I have 2 P320 and had no issues.
From what I have heard recorded and posted, there are no "ladies" at these events...there are oodles of foul-mouthed women, however.
While you have a 2nd Amendment right to carry a gun, it's dangerous to carry one into an airport or the Capitol building. That said, once he was disarmed shooting him was murder or a horrendous mistake. Good luck getting accountability from any federal agency though.
I'm surprised after January 6th where protesters were exercising "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" (without guns) that people are not carrying their protests against ICE to the Government in DC (which is the target noted in the First Amendment). Of course, over 300 of the 1500+ January 6th protesters were charged with FELONY Obstruction of a Federal Process (most were charged with MISDEMEANOR trespassing). At some point these protesters must be crossing lines and shouldn't those be also charged with FELONY Obstruction of a Federal Process (ICE carrying out deportation orders?) I'm all for protesting, IT'S OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT but it would be more effective (though even more dangerous) "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" directly rather than harassing those implementing the government's orders.
Once he was disarmed, he was objectively not a threat. But from the officer's perspective, which matters for his criminal liability, he may still have been reasonably perceived as being a threat by the shooter. For example:
- the officer may not have been aware he had been disarmed of the known weapon.
- if the first shot was the P320 accidentally discharging in the hands of the grey jacketed officer, it may have been reasonable to assume he had a second gun, provided that his hands were obscured.
Mark
Consider that some Conceal Carry persons may have a second weapon, a knife or ankle holster. A LEO cannot reasonably or objectively know that a person (even potentially disarmed ) is no longer a threat. That is dangerous to a LEO , who is trained to stop the threat , esp. if the perp. Is/was armed and resisting.
I hope the FBI/DOJ is using cell phone data and Geo-fencing technologies to get relevant info on rioters.
Pfftt!
As if!
Do you really suppose the FBI is going to roll up on any of these "protesters" to arrest them for their actions in the streets?
Nothing is going to happen to any of these people.
I posted this link elsewhere in this thread (I think):
msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-is-not-a-protest-former-special-ops-soldier-says-insurgent-tactics-being-used-in-minnesota/ar-AA1V2bi1
These protests seem more like the fake ones that USAID, NED and other US-funded groups do for coups, color revolutions, regime changes and "insurgencies". (Everything bad the US does abroad eventually comes home.) Wonder who is funding this operation? Unlikely it has grass roots.
I will help, resisting arrest while armed. Any one familiar with Concealed
Carry will tell you, if you resist a LEO with a weapon , chances are you will get shot DEAD! Front, back does not matter. Use of force laws are always on the side of LEO .( Supreme Court precedents)
wow. you called it.
I have to wonder, for instance, whether the ice agent(s) who shot, had more an hour of sleep, uninterrupted by airhorn blasts, over several previous nights.
Agreed. They are only human. I think it is very important to have a buffer force between ICE and the protestors. They could escort ICE and set perimeters, with crowd control being their sole duty. There is way too much face-to-face here.
The whistles alone will increase stress and decrease cognitive function. The last thing we want is ICE to have to be distracted with dual roles, as it decreases the chance that both can be performed professionally.
Since the state seems unwilling to participate in federal coordination to keep the activities safe, probably could to federalize the National Guard to explicitly serve that role, with the public safety of all involved being the rationale.
These were CBP agents.
Thanks for the correction
The stream hasn’t even started yet and right wingers are already in the comments lying about the facts and events while making up justifications for the latest government shooting of an American citizen.
A reflection of this administration which has already dispatched officials to lie about the victim being an attempted assassin who tried to kill as many federal agents as possible.
What will Walter Kirn’s defense of that behavior be this week?
Andrew, one person carrying easily enough ammo to kill a dozen people got involved in a melee with ICE officers. The facts are in dispute. I totally agree that transparency is important. Incidentally, I was arguing for transparency for several years while Democrats were in power and refused to release any of the January 06 camera footage, except for a few snippets of carefully selected shots. A few minutes out of thousands of hours of footage. Were you arguing for transparency then?
Of course I was for transparency then, what kind of a question is that? You are completely distracting from the fact that this administration is lying about American citizens they kill being domestic terrorists who showed up to kill as many feds as possible.
That is an unforgivable, provable lie in the case of both Pretti and Good.
I didn’t give a shit about Jan 6th actually I was celebrating with memes of Congress people
cowering on the floor with the captions “war pigs crawling.”
You don’t know anything about me. But I know something about you - you’re a light-switch brained tribalist who categorizes everybody into an “us or them” based on their agreement with your preconceived notions. That’s why you assumed I’m some kind of Democrat or liberal who was all upset about Jan 6th.
While I think there is a good chance the officers aren't criminally liable, I don't think that Pretti could be characterized as seeking a melee with ICE officers.
From what I've seen of the video, he naturally reacts to a woman being pushed down to the curb, and then the ICE officer moves into his path and pepper sprays him once there was marginal contact.
Also, whether he was carrying ammo or not is irrelevant, as it is his right to for defensive purposes. I wouldn't have changed my opinion of Rittenhouse simply because he had additional ammo.
I think, in both cases, it is unwise to take weapons into a chaotic protest environment, as chaos and guns tend to create their own problems. But others might make a different self-defense calculation.
I'm not sure what your angling at exactly. I haven't seen any evidence he was looking for any kind of fight. (I don't think Rittenhouse was either).
He didn’t defend it
This week, Walter gifted us with what might be the most idiotic justification ever for labeling an American a domestic terrorist who was looking to go on a murder rampage. The evidence - he had a sight on his gun meant to “lock on” (Walter’s words) to a target.
To steal his favorite phrase, “in other words,” Walter’s evidence of domestic terrorism is that the pistol had a sight that’s used to aim at targets with. Walter said he’s “never seen anything like it.” Never seen a sight that’s used for aiming huh?
God damn. Just utterly brain-dead. Then he said the sight was for acquiring targets at “long range.” Again, this sight was a holographic sight on a pistol, a weapon not notorious for its range and accuracy. But Walter sees a red dot sight on a pistol, something that literally replaces the iron sights with a red fucking dot, and calls it a mechanism to “lock on” to targets at “range” and that he’s never heard of nor seen anything like it before.
And he pretends to be a rural guy familiar with guns. Amazing. I’m just stunned. If you’re going to engage in apologetics for the Trump admin you could at least make it coherent Walter.
That Matt shares a podcast with this fucking moronic liar is a disgrace to his own reputation.
I like Walter's literary analysis but this is not the first time he's gone way over his waders pretending to be a gun guy. When Tim Walz did his hunting photo op he had a whole spiel about duck hunting shotguns holding 5 or 6 rounds compared to the gentlemanly pheasant guns.
Red dot sights are not advanced weaponry, an extra mag is not intent to kill, and a p320 is a dumb choice to carry these days, but not a damn hand cannon. If anything it's evidence the guy wasn't a serious shooter.
Matt has the patience of a saint. Walter was downright idiotic yesterday. I don’t even think he has watched any of the videos, just completely talking out of his ass. It was an embarrassing display of ignorance
I can't believe Matt didn't push back on that. Lost a few brain cells watching this crap.
I love watching matt squirm under the weight of the stupid of his new audience. Couldn’t happen to a bigger bitch.
Probably on the money...never forget the killing of the legislator (and her husband) who voted to deny welfare to illegals....
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/jd-vance-notes-something-very-important-about-minneapolis-chaos
Correlation is not causation, just remember.
Play the percentages and causation happens at:
The only 2 democrats who voted against the extreme lefty bill to hand out your tax money to migrants were the ones shot by the "MAGA supporter".
If there were less than 10 dems in the state house it's correlation.
"MAGA" supporter who claimed Tim Walz told
him to do it??
No, only direct evidence would support that hypothesis. For example, it would be difficult to convict anyone only on the basis of that “correlation”.
Oh goodness dont be dense. When the odds of this one line up, you take the 99.9% chance
As a general statement, perhaps...but I look at the big picture and how seemingly separate actions fit together...even if I didn't catch it at the time...
Our right to bear arms is sensibly premised on a personal duty to exercise this right responsibly within a broader project of maintaining public order and safety. I'm a CCP holder - It's not a casual endeavor.
The combustible volatility of that situation entirely overwhelmed the proposition of personal and public safety - meaning - the presence of his sidearm was a danger to himself and to the other protesters.
No one deserved to get shot but they wouldn't have if that gun had been left at home.
Very similar to the judgement of Rittenhouse. When he was running around with a gun, he easily could have been shot by police drawing a wrong, but reasonable assumption. The whole situation becomes volatile and hard to control when you mix guns with chaos.
Great assessment. Thank you.
In the old Perry Mason tv show the big question every episode was: will Hamilton Burger's objection be upheld by the judge.
In ATW the big question is: will Walter ever let Matt finish the point he's making?
😂
This is exactly how I see their exchange. Once I understood that (took a while! And I've been listening since essentially the start of ATW), it made a lot more sense and I felt less frustrated and more appreciative of their different approaches and offerings to the show.
90’s kids don’t get shot up by the Feds because we learned that when ICE says stop, you collaborate and listen
Sequence of events is important. Several agents placating a guy who intervened in their work, hear an agent say "gun, gun" and then a shot rings out. That first shot was from Pretti's gun. Which means Pretti had one chambered and the weapon was switched off safe. Why? Surrounding agents couldn't know who had the gun that just went off. Just that the civilian in question had one. Or more. In addition, the weapon in question (Sig P320) has a clearly identified problem with spontaneous discharge. Did Pretti not know this? Or did he know this and chose to carry it around cocked and unlocked anyway? He made a whole host of poor decisions. Now he's dead from dumbassery. Call it a teaching moment
You have no idea where the first shot came from at all, you’re just repeating slop from the right wing media mill and relying on the “analysis” of grainy footage. You then base the rest of your increasingly delusional and paranoid argument off this false premise.
For one, if it was a negligent discharge as you claim, why didn’t the agent’s hand or the gun move at all? He had already disarmed Pretti and was walking away with his sig. Both are in frame on several angles during the first shot, his hand isn’t moved by recoil at all despite the fact that he would be unprepared for the recoil because you’re claiming the sig went off unexpectedly.
But that didn’t show up on any of the video.
I will add that, unless one was involved in the heat of the moment , there is no way that an outside opinion means anything...How could any of the agents hear anything from each other? The crazies are there being crazy.
If a defense lawyer wants to present this argument to a judge and jury, fine. But we need a real prosecutor and a real judge and not a coverup that destroys the evidence and sends the perpetrators off to a new assignment to further terrorize the public.
Charlie, just because the Walz/Frey combo refuses to enforce the law doesn’t mean we should ignore it. Read the federal statute. It not only criminalizes any attempt to obstruct ICE, it also criminalizes attempts to intimidate ICE officers involved in a law enforcement operation. The vast majority of the “public” being “terrorized” by ICE are the ones creating the terror. If Walz/Frey started arresting lawbreakers, the terror would disappear overnight.
Ok, so actually arrest people and charge them with obstruction and give them a trial, etc. Say, "you're under arrest!" Get a prosecutor. Enforce the law. Wear a badge. Show your face. Show some pride in your work.
But no, they have no interest in doing any of that. Everything is just an excuse to vent their anger and frustration. An excuse to mace and shove people to the ground and beat them and shoot them.
I don't think it has been confirmed yet that the first shot is from Pretti's gun, but it seems very likely to me. That said, the company has insisted the guns are safe and in wide use, so he could have bought into their propaganda.
Given the way it was kitted, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a gun he liked from a video game, like Call of Duty. Just based on the YouTube videos I've seen, it seems like a terribly unsafe gun to own.
Where is this idea the gun was kitted out coming from? P320s are super common despite their reputation of accidental discharge the last few years. They were standard militsry and police sidearms for years. They come in 9 or 10mm, both of which are common everyday carry rounds. Red dot sights are almost standard equipment these days- my 70 year old dad has them.
This story has really demonstrated how clueless much of the right is about guns, not to mention gun laws.
They actually have 9mm, 357sig, 40sw, 45acp .
Typically the P320 has a
molded grip module available in S, M & L. The weapon I saw recovered looked like it had a P320 slide and possibly a 2011 grip( double stack 1911 A-1)
I'm not a "gun guy" at all, and not claiming any expertise here -- please don't draw conclusions from that. If you are correct, I stand corrected.
I'm also not on the right (not on the left either).
I'm aware that they are common, and used by both millitary and police. I didn't mean to imply anything negative by it being kitted, other than it having a modular platform that might be an attractive weapon to someone that built a relationship to guns through video games. People -- especially gamers -- like things that are customizable.
If that is true, the deceased may have been unaware of that reputation for discharge. I can't imagine everyone that buys one is dialed in enough to be aware of it.
As for the augmentations, I did read a piece from someone that seemed to be a gun guy and he'd said there were a couple things modified from stock. Besides the sight, maybe it was the grip? I don't recall.
This comes up a lot in gun control discussions with people who don't know much about guns (no judgement). Changing the grip does nothing to make the gun more powerful, more capable of spraying bullets, more objectively dangerous, etc.
It can make it more lethal, but only in a good way: it can make the gun more accurate. I just don't see how that is a bad thing when you're talking about a weapon whose entire point is to put the bullet on target as accurately as possible. The last thing you want when using lethal force is for it to not be lethal, or to be lethal to a bystander. The same applies for red dot sights, upgraded barrels and triggers, and (for AR-15-type weapons) adjustable stocks, pistol grips, and other "lego" type customizations.
The fact that a gun has been customized really doesn't prove anything at all-- as you say, there's plenty who just want to accessorize. But to the extent such customizations fall within the normal scope of "kitting out" a gun (barring illegal modifications to convert to full-auto, for example), they're all made with the goal of making the gun perform better for the user, which is an objectively good goal.
Some modifications might make a gun impractical for daily carry, or optimized for range, use, but if you're going into a riot zone, the second piece of advice you'd likely get is to carry the gun you're most capable of shooting well. The first piece of advice you'd get is to not go.
To be clear, I'm a gun guy but not really a tactical gun guy. Tactical gun guys (which includes my 70 year old dad who is a competitive shooter) make fun of people like me. My guns get used for hunting, and I kill a lot of birds, a few coyotes, a few big game animals, and put down a few cows and deer that have been hit by cars every year.
The reputation for unintentional discharge with the Sig P320 is very well known in the gun world. Enough that when my boss told me he was buying a new Sig last year, he immediately clarified that it was not that model. Sig normally makes great guns, and it's not clear the P320 is as bad as its reputation, but it definitely has that reputation, and has been removed from service (at great expense) by many military and police units. For what it's worth, the manufacturer continues to insist that the reported incidents of accidental discharge are all user error. Some people believe that and still carry that model. Some people think that's legal/PR CYA, but it's been a PR disaster for the company.
As it is, I find it unlikely Pretti had a customized P320 but wasn't aware of its reputation. But the fact of the customization really doesn't mean much to me.
The semi-serious gun community have known for over a year that that gun is unsafe. Nobody with a brain would carry one with a round in the chamber
Very possible that he was more of a LARPer with it. Seems incredibly unwise.
I just checked and a variant of it (I think, not a gun guy) is indeed in CoD Modern Warfare:
https://www.beginnergunner.com/the-real-pistols-of-call-of-duty-modern-warfare/#gun5
I'm guessing the modularity attracts some people, as it does with the ARs.
Well, I personally don't think following around law enforcement and harassing them is a good idea. I am surprised that so many are doing so. I can't imagine, say, following around our local Sheriff's department and pulling what is being pulled as they answer calls. And doing so with a gun, seems to open up a world of bad possibilities.
In a normal protest, it would be much safer -- but these are far from normal protests because they are sustained and pursue the officers out in the field using group tactics.
As for the company itself, I have no idea -- and agree that anyone sharing a video on YouTube has potential incentive. It could be that it is all due to user error, but I'd guess that some errors are probably easier to make than others.
P320, like many pistols, does not have a safety. It's also the official duty pistol of ICE https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/united-states-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-extends-sig-sauer-p320-contract-another-two-years-
I don't care. I don't care about people involved in being activists at stopping ICE from doing their job. Is ICE on edge? Probably and justifiably so...they are practically on combat duty in their own country. The bigger picture of why and who is behind thus is more important that some guy with a gun and no ID got killed because of his actions. I don't care. I care about the people behind destroying my country.
Yep. And independent journalists have laid it all out. Now I just wait somewhat patiently for the Administration to move on it in a way that will be effective. And I wait because it’s going to get so big and gnarly, that not even the MSM can ignore it or spin it from We The People.
It's also unfortunately two law enforcement agencies thrown into environments that are beyond their training. Most ICE and Border Patrol agents do not specialize in crowd control and riot control. National Guard MPs are but Walz won't deploy them to protect ICE operations. State Troopers have riot control training but again Walz won't deploy them. Add in that none of the agencies are trained for counter-insurgency.
This administration, especially Homeland Security, the DOJ, and ICE, don’t seem to be paragons of competence unfortunately.
There are built-in curtailments....the ones still working there who have nefarious thinking minds cannot be trusted...
Wait until all the facts come out. Matt and Walter are insightful and intelligent journalists who actually understand the meaning of the word.
Walter was spreading lies about a negligent discharge being the cause of the shooting, he didn't wait for any facts to come out, he simply spreads rumor. Intelligent?
Where does this all lead, my predicted end result.
Protesters intentionally created a forced‑error environment
Officers made a catastrophic, heartbreaking mistake with some cause
Mr. Pretti breached the core legal duties of a P2C holder by inserting himself into an active law‑enforcement action while armed
All three failures converged
He did not deserve to die
The events leading to Mr. Pretti’s death unfolded in an intentionally chaotic, high‑pressure environment engineered to force operational errors: crowd surges, relentless noise, communication disruption, and deliberate interference with officer movement. These conditions made it nearly impossible for officers to hear each other, maintain situational awareness, or reliably process commands. Video evidence shows that the disarmament of Mr. Pretti occurred roughly one second before shots were fired. A span so brief that officers were still visually searching for the weapon and could not realistically have processed any “weapon clear” communication, even if it had been made and they could have heard it! In the absence of the gun they believed they had just seen, the reaction appears driven by uncertainty: Where is the weapon now? Is it in his hand? Is he about to fire? Panic gripped someone.
This is an interval far too short for meaningful assessment or de‑escalation.
The broader protest environment is intended to induce mistakes: overwhelming noise, disrupted communication, sensory overload, and stress‑driven reactions. These factors can push even trained personnel into catastrophic errors. None of this excuses the outcome. Mr. Pretti should not be dead. But he came heavily armed, and as an armed citizen, he carried a heightened responsibility to avoid inserting himself into volatile situations because the law imposes stricter expectations on those who choose to carry a weapon in public. As a P2C holder, he would have been trained on these obligations. What follows explains how that legal framework applies to the moments leading up to the shooting.
They want mistakes; they now have two.
What were a P2C's requirements:
Minnesota law is explicit: under § 609.50 (Obstruction of Legal Process) and § 624.714 (Permit to Carry), a P2C (Permit to Carry) holder may not engage in any criminal conduct while armed. The moment Mr. Pretti stepped into the physical space between law enforcement and a protester already engaged with officers, he committed obstruction under § 609.50 — and at that instant, the protections of lawful carry no longer applied. Minnesota sentencing treats the presence of a firearm, even holstered and unused, as an aggravating factor because it elevates the risk to officers and bystanders.
Federal law mirrors this. Under 18 U.S.C. § 111, resisting, impeding, or interfering with federal officers is a crime, and subsection (b) adds a deadly‑weapon enhancement if the person is armed — even if the firearm stays holstered. Courts interpret mere possession during the offense as “involving” a weapon because it creates an immediate weapons‑retention threat. This is why federal agents escalate force rapidly when an armed individual inserts themselves into an arrest or use‑of‑force event.
And this is not unique to federal agents. A Minnesota P2C holder who did the same thing during a bar fight — stepping into the middle of state troopers or local police already hands‑on with a suspect — would face the exact same legal consequences. Once officers know a person is armed, any non‑cooperation becomes a potential deadly‑force scenario.
So in Mr. Pretti’s case, the critical moment was not when or if he drew a weapon — in the videos reviewed, it does not appear that he ever did. It was when he physically entered an active law‑enforcement action and intervened while armed. Under both Minnesota and federal law, that act alone constitutes obstruction, regardless of his intent, however “good or noble” one may feel those intentions were. And because he was armed, that obstruction is treated as a felony‑level threat due to the immediate weapons‑retention risk. His P2C training would have made clear that stepping into an active law‑enforcement action while armed is exactly the kind of conduct the law prohibits.
Finally, by most reports Mr. Pretti did not have ID or his P2C permit in his possession. Minnesota law requires a permit holder to carry both while armed, so he was already in violation of § 624.714 the moment he stepped outside with a firearm. This does not revoke the permit itself, but it does mean he was not lawfully carrying at the time — a problem he could have avoided simply by having the documents he agreed to carry when he received his P2C. It is difficult to understand why a trained permit holder would neglect something so basic, especially while choosing to enter a volatile situation while armed.
Apparently there was a very advanced sighting device on Pretti’s gun. Does not speak to a “benign” motive for bringing the gun to the protest.
We should wait for the total facts to emerge but all in all, it is sad but a direct result of a catastrophic error in judgment on Pretti’s part.
Given the nature of the Signal chats directing these protestors—many paid, along with “supplies” appearing—the true villains are those creating this chaos for a deliberate purpose to obfuscate the massive fraud. These folks are the ones that are using protestors like Fretti as cannon fodder for their nefarious purposes.
Apologies for the extra comment.
The additional magazines also speak to premeditation of some sort. Either that or some kind of vague paranoia that extra ammo would somehow be appropriate to bring.
yes it does prompt questions. While one is legally allowed to carry, and apparently Pretti had a concealed carry permit, one is also obliged to disclose that to law enforcement in such a situation. Might have been wiser for him to not interfere with law enforcement as well.
Sad for him and his parents of course, but his actions were spectacularly unwise.
Yes, exactly. The Signal chat, and specifically its participants, is not getting enough attention.
Very clever.
"Drooling morons"
I'd call anyone who brings a weapon to a protest -- including extra clips -- and doesn't bring his license AND then engages with law enforcement is mentally unhinged.
Thinking that interfering with law enforcement and actively resisting arrest is "mere obstruction" is something a drooling moron would write.
This artificially inseminated uprising is thinly veiled.. It's not like any previous historic uprising.. Certainly not one with a legitimate basis... What's going on in Minnesota is orchestrated by at least 4 primary sources? One, is the Fraud team led by Waltz, Omar, which is willing to destroy Minnesota just to keep from being fully exposed as participants in the Somali fraud.
The 2nd and more dangerous are the paid professional provocateurs.. Soros/Commie funded primarily.. Without them, this unrest becomes a nothing burger... This is the same team that exploited the George Floyd incident. Absolutely ruthless, experts who know how to artificially foment violence continuously..
3rd the Marxist/ Democrats hell bent on exploiting the situation to maximum advantage..
4th the mainstream media propaganda machine.. and they're brain dead spokesman like Don Lemon...
Not one of the four really care about the good citizens of Minnesota.. They wouldn't be doing what they're doing if they really cared about them
and we must remember..
Most of the Somali's are decent citizens.. too..
ICE must continue rounding up all illegal immigrants.. This is not optional if we are going to continue to be a nation of laws.. a Democratic Constitutional Republic..
Godspeed to the Trump administrations finding the financial evidence of those guilty of sedition.. in America...
It’s a sad day, but a Sig-Sauer P320 is recognized by law enforcement (and presumably ICE) as a very deadly and problematic firearm. It has a really light trigger pull which makes it prone to fire too easily. Enough of a reputation to pump up the adrenaline once law enforcement recognized what it was.
Theres literally no way for any member of law enforcement to recognize that gun until it was in the hands of law enforcement. And honestly the idea that most law enforcement are noticing the model of the gun in that moment is utterly laughable to anybody that's handled firearms.
If they're that jumpy, they're really bad at law enforcement. There may well be a reasonable belief narrative that justifies this shooting, but "we saw a gun and recognized it as a particularly scary model" ain't it.
Was it legal or illegal?
What was legal or illegal?
To carry this particular type of firearm?
What difference does it make? Anyway, ICE itself quit using it in 2025, so I imagine the ICE personnel immediately recognized it for what it is.