Sorry, I agree with you, Sara. It’s grammatically incorrect as written. “Help Walter Kim and me…” is correct. See Walter’s despised Elements of Style by Strunk and (E.B.) White.
I was taught that if you're the subject, "one" to be pedantic, it's "I." If a caller asks for you, for example, you respond, "It is I, Elizabeth." One of my very proper, older friends, whose father had been a noted professor at Cornell, would respond, "it is I, Ruth." I can't imagine "Hello it's I, I've thought about us for a long long time."
Matt wouldn't say, "Me is going to hold blah blah blah" tonight.
Except the sentence everyone is parsing is "Help Walter and me" -- the unspoken subject of the imperative verb tense "Help" is "You" (pl) -- i.e. "You all should help Walter and me." "Walter and me" is the object of the sentence, and "me" is the correct case. You would not say "Help I"; you would say "Help me."
I didn't see that. But in my house, "me" sounded kind of iffy. I know it's Brian and who,me, but I don't think we used that much. My dad was a Harvard English major, so make of it what you will.
If one believes grammars to be prescriptive, rather than descriptive, we can come up with all sorts of illogical and silly rules.
I suggest deploying functional/situational markers as usage guidelines: eg. communicating respect and formality, versus casual and informal. Word order matters as much as case. We might say/write "Help Walter and I compile a list." Or, we might say/write "Help me and Walter compile a list." Both sound "right" depending on the context. No need to get your/our knickers in a twist.
The nominative/subjective form of the pronoun is used because it follows a form of the verb to be ( It's/ it is ). The verb to be is like a big equal sign(=). "Who is there? It is I, Vercingetorix."
These are two different sentences. "Help me" is right. "It is I." This is correct because "I" and "It" are the same person, so the pronoun agrees with the subject. The same for Elizabeth: "This is she."
"Whom cares" is a joke--him cares would be wrong, so we say, "Who cares?"---and this person has the right of it!
I consulted two esteemed, professional, grammarians to put the lid on this:
“Hi, Sera,
The correct form is “Help Walter Kirn and me,” since the verb “help” here has a compound object. The object pronoun is “me.” Again, you can always get it right by eliminating the other half of the compound: “help me,” “help us,” “help him/her.”
We hope this helps. Best,
Pat O’Conner & Stewart Kellerman”
Now, I want to say for the record that I consider Matt Taibbi the most important journalist in America today. I revere his contributions to public discourse, his humor, his untiring devotion to justice and freedom of speech. I consider his skill and imagination as a writer second to no one. We all know that one of the trade-offs of the Substack model is less rigorous editing. To jump on a great writer for a minor error which in no way distorted the meaning would be like criticizing a singer who forgot a word in a song.
I would never have mentioned this at all except that I wanted to shoehorn in my little joke about “whom cares” which was a reference to Taibbi’s own catch of another error earlier in the week.
Russian has an accusative case just like English, and *everything* gets inflected, including proper names. "Help Walter and me" in Russian would be "помогите Уолтеру и мне"
Well, actually, it’s “Walter Kirn and me…”
But whom cares.
True, because if you delete "Walter Kirn," you're left with "Help . . . me," which sounds better than "Help I. . . "
Did you read his whole sentence? It is "Walter Kirn and I". Matt is pretty good w/ that grammar stuff!
No, this is the whole sentence:
“Help Walter Kirn and I make up the list for what promises to be a strange and inebriated Trump-Harris debate.”
If you eliminate the word “Help”, then it is correct. See:Twain, Mark; re: lightning bugs.
Sorry, I agree with you, Sara. It’s grammatically incorrect as written. “Help Walter Kim and me…” is correct. See Walter’s despised Elements of Style by Strunk and (E.B.) White.
I was taught that if you're the subject, "one" to be pedantic, it's "I." If a caller asks for you, for example, you respond, "It is I, Elizabeth." One of my very proper, older friends, whose father had been a noted professor at Cornell, would respond, "it is I, Ruth." I can't imagine "Hello it's I, I've thought about us for a long long time."
Matt wouldn't say, "Me is going to hold blah blah blah" tonight.
Except the sentence everyone is parsing is "Help Walter and me" -- the unspoken subject of the imperative verb tense "Help" is "You" (pl) -- i.e. "You all should help Walter and me." "Walter and me" is the object of the sentence, and "me" is the correct case. You would not say "Help I"; you would say "Help me."
I didn't see that. But in my house, "me" sounded kind of iffy. I know it's Brian and who,me, but I don't think we used that much. My dad was a Harvard English major, so make of it what you will.
If one believes grammars to be prescriptive, rather than descriptive, we can come up with all sorts of illogical and silly rules.
I suggest deploying functional/situational markers as usage guidelines: eg. communicating respect and formality, versus casual and informal. Word order matters as much as case. We might say/write "Help Walter and I compile a list." Or, we might say/write "Help me and Walter compile a list." Both sound "right" depending on the context. No need to get your/our knickers in a twist.
As long as you don’t have an “In our house…” sign on your lawn. 😇
One might also respond to a caller asking for one's self,. "This is she," or "he," as the case may be.
M.A. in English says, "It's Walter Kirn and I . . . "
Sixth grade dropout says: (quoting an old Frank Capra film): “If I had choice of weapons with you sir, I would choose grammar”
Dr. Gail is correct: "It's Walter Kirn and I ..."
The nominative/subjective form of the pronoun is used because it follows a form of the verb to be ( It's/ it is ). The verb to be is like a big equal sign(=). "Who is there? It is I, Vercingetorix."
These are two different sentences. "Help me" is right. "It is I." This is correct because "I" and "It" are the same person, so the pronoun agrees with the subject. The same for Elizabeth: "This is she."
"Whom cares" is a joke--him cares would be wrong, so we say, "Who cares?"---and this person has the right of it!
???
I am come to slayest grammar nazis.
I do, and you are correct while Mr. Taibbi is not.
I might gift that one as a colloquialism. The "whom" bit was good as a rabbit-punch for a faux-intellectual (really, faux-anything-serious).
I consulted two esteemed, professional, grammarians to put the lid on this:
“Hi, Sera,
The correct form is “Help Walter Kirn and me,” since the verb “help” here has a compound object. The object pronoun is “me.” Again, you can always get it right by eliminating the other half of the compound: “help me,” “help us,” “help him/her.”
We hope this helps. Best,
Pat O’Conner & Stewart Kellerman”
Now, I want to say for the record that I consider Matt Taibbi the most important journalist in America today. I revere his contributions to public discourse, his humor, his untiring devotion to justice and freedom of speech. I consider his skill and imagination as a writer second to no one. We all know that one of the trade-offs of the Substack model is less rigorous editing. To jump on a great writer for a minor error which in no way distorted the meaning would be like criticizing a singer who forgot a word in a song.
I would never have mentioned this at all except that I wanted to shoehorn in my little joke about “whom cares” which was a reference to Taibbi’s own catch of another error earlier in the week.
Th-th-th-th-that’s all folks!
Sorry-- wrong!! Matt is correct!
Everywhere but in that sentence.
It’s “help Walter and me”
“Me” is the object of the verb “to help”
However, he's writing casually and idiomatically in that sentence, so we give it a pass.
Taibbi claims to be a writer! Maybe it is “I” in Russian grammar?
It isn't.
Нет.
Russian has an accusative case just like English, and *everything* gets inflected, including proper names. "Help Walter and me" in Russian would be "помогите Уолтеру и мне"
Dative case in Russian here, дательный падеж.
First the Adidas track suit, now this! Where's the splashy image of St. Basil's taking over the Racket logo?