Thanks for the likes, Susan, but you have not answered my question as to why, if we want the slaughter in Gaza to end, all of us are not speaking as one voice in demanding that Hamas come out of the tunnels and surrender... Hamas started it, it is entirely on them to end it. What am I missing here?
You are one of the many who have been convinced that history began on October 7, 2023. However, you have fallen for US/Israeli propaganda.
1) Hamas did not "start this." The Zionists who landed in Palestine and started the process of driving the Palestinians off the land started, at the very least, in 1948.
2) Hamas has several times asked for negotiations and an agreement with Israel, which Israel and the US have refused.
3) Ask yourself this: How is it possible that the US could hunt down and assassinate one man, Osama bin Laden, without destroying the country he came from, (our buddies) Saudi Arabia?
4) How do you explain that Netanyahu originally started and funded Hamas?
If the US/Israeli governments really wanted to target Hamas only, I think they are clever enough to do it. Why are they using the excuse "We have to get Hamas" to destroy an entire country and all of the people in it?
Why are you apologizing for their unconscionable actions? Where do you get your information? The TV?
Well Susan, I certainly do not think the history of the israeli-palestinian conflict started on Oct 7. In fact, I'm not sure I or anyone else can put a firm date on it, maybe it "began" a couple thousand years ago. And yes, it is a complicated situation. I have opposed Israel's settlement policy for years. In fact, I have advocated for a Gene Sharp inspired approach to peacemaking in the region. You remember Gene Sharp dont you? But a criss border sneak
attack that results in a thousand civilian deaths, and in which civilians were the primary targets, makes a Gene Sharp approach impossible--no people, least of all the Jews, are obligated to let that go unpunished, to allow the group that launched this sneak attack to survive and thus claim "victory." On October 6, a shaky ceasefire had kept a lid on hostilities. By choosing to shatter this ceasefire on Oct 7, Hamas has set itself up for a terrible retribution. That they choose to hide behind their own civilians is to me as despicable as the attack itself. I am not Jewish, but it is not hard for me to understand why Israel must do whatever is necessary to defend its security and destroy a group with whom a peace agreement is now an impossibility.
So I repeat: let us all speak with one voice and de.and that Hamas come out of the tunnels and surrender, as justice demands. Then we can begin to rebuild the peace process.
And let me assure you that my knowledge of this entire question is somewhat greater than TV news.
Except that several reliable sources say that most of the deaths were actually caused by the Israeli military. Like Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate'.
And Caitlin Johnstone points out that an invading empirical power doesn't "have the right" to "defend" itself.
Why are you giving in to Israeli propaganda?
If you are on this channel, you seem to believe in thinking for yourself, but you are only an Israeli apologist. In other words, a mouthpiece for them.
"most of the deaths were caused by the Israeli military." Count me as skeptical of that report, but I know Aaron Mate to be a reputable source so I will check it out. But even if that report is true, it that does not change the fact that Hamas is solely responsible for this latest round of hostilities.
Yes, one must always be ready to evolve one's views as new information becomes available. That applies to you, too. "An old hippy. Far left since 1968." And you haven't grown or evolved since then? Not something to brag about. The world has changed mightily since 1968, but alas, not you. I've known many like you in my time. As a group, they seem kind of pathetic.
As for Caitlin Johnstone: you lost me at "bogan socialist" and "anarcho-psychonaut"... really? Adults really describe themselves in such puerile terms? So, she claims an "empirical (sic) power" doesn't have the right to self-defense? Unless of course it is a Leftist imperial power, then the rules don't apply. You "left" out that part. Again, seen/known this type many times in my life, not impressed, at least not anymore.
But casting Israel "an invading power" seems extremely dangerous, and you should not give in to that leftist propaganda. We are on a slippery slope to a new Holocaust. I have long thought that the charge of antisemitism (like racism) has been seriously overused/exaggerated, but the reaction to the events of 10/7 has opened my eyes. Antisemitism is far more pervasive than I realized.. I think you have a touch of it yourself. Turns out that at this point, the Left really is more antisemitic than the Right. Something else I did not know as a young man. But we most evolve our views as we learn new things, right?
Why disappointing Patrick? Because you don't think West is a race baiting grifter?
Thanks for the likes, Susan, but you have not answered my question as to why, if we want the slaughter in Gaza to end, all of us are not speaking as one voice in demanding that Hamas come out of the tunnels and surrender... Hamas started it, it is entirely on them to end it. What am I missing here?
This is what you are missing:
You are one of the many who have been convinced that history began on October 7, 2023. However, you have fallen for US/Israeli propaganda.
1) Hamas did not "start this." The Zionists who landed in Palestine and started the process of driving the Palestinians off the land started, at the very least, in 1948.
2) Hamas has several times asked for negotiations and an agreement with Israel, which Israel and the US have refused.
3) Ask yourself this: How is it possible that the US could hunt down and assassinate one man, Osama bin Laden, without destroying the country he came from, (our buddies) Saudi Arabia?
4) How do you explain that Netanyahu originally started and funded Hamas?
If the US/Israeli governments really wanted to target Hamas only, I think they are clever enough to do it. Why are they using the excuse "We have to get Hamas" to destroy an entire country and all of the people in it?
Why are you apologizing for their unconscionable actions? Where do you get your information? The TV?
Well Susan, I certainly do not think the history of the israeli-palestinian conflict started on Oct 7. In fact, I'm not sure I or anyone else can put a firm date on it, maybe it "began" a couple thousand years ago. And yes, it is a complicated situation. I have opposed Israel's settlement policy for years. In fact, I have advocated for a Gene Sharp inspired approach to peacemaking in the region. You remember Gene Sharp dont you? But a criss border sneak
attack that results in a thousand civilian deaths, and in which civilians were the primary targets, makes a Gene Sharp approach impossible--no people, least of all the Jews, are obligated to let that go unpunished, to allow the group that launched this sneak attack to survive and thus claim "victory." On October 6, a shaky ceasefire had kept a lid on hostilities. By choosing to shatter this ceasefire on Oct 7, Hamas has set itself up for a terrible retribution. That they choose to hide behind their own civilians is to me as despicable as the attack itself. I am not Jewish, but it is not hard for me to understand why Israel must do whatever is necessary to defend its security and destroy a group with whom a peace agreement is now an impossibility.
So I repeat: let us all speak with one voice and de.and that Hamas come out of the tunnels and surrender, as justice demands. Then we can begin to rebuild the peace process.
And let me assure you that my knowledge of this entire question is somewhat greater than TV news.
Except that several reliable sources say that most of the deaths were actually caused by the Israeli military. Like Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate'.
And Caitlin Johnstone points out that an invading empirical power doesn't "have the right" to "defend" itself.
Why are you giving in to Israeli propaganda?
If you are on this channel, you seem to believe in thinking for yourself, but you are only an Israeli apologist. In other words, a mouthpiece for them.
"most of the deaths were caused by the Israeli military." Count me as skeptical of that report, but I know Aaron Mate to be a reputable source so I will check it out. But even if that report is true, it that does not change the fact that Hamas is solely responsible for this latest round of hostilities.
Yes, one must always be ready to evolve one's views as new information becomes available. That applies to you, too. "An old hippy. Far left since 1968." And you haven't grown or evolved since then? Not something to brag about. The world has changed mightily since 1968, but alas, not you. I've known many like you in my time. As a group, they seem kind of pathetic.
As for Caitlin Johnstone: you lost me at "bogan socialist" and "anarcho-psychonaut"... really? Adults really describe themselves in such puerile terms? So, she claims an "empirical (sic) power" doesn't have the right to self-defense? Unless of course it is a Leftist imperial power, then the rules don't apply. You "left" out that part. Again, seen/known this type many times in my life, not impressed, at least not anymore.
But casting Israel "an invading power" seems extremely dangerous, and you should not give in to that leftist propaganda. We are on a slippery slope to a new Holocaust. I have long thought that the charge of antisemitism (like racism) has been seriously overused/exaggerated, but the reaction to the events of 10/7 has opened my eyes. Antisemitism is far more pervasive than I realized.. I think you have a touch of it yourself. Turns out that at this point, the Left really is more antisemitic than the Right. Something else I did not know as a young man. But we most evolve our views as we learn new things, right?