One of the lies that apologists for empire like to tell us is that the American Empire may be brutal, unjust, self-serving and arbitrary, but that only thr Empire can keep peace.
This lie was blown up when China got the Saudis and Iranians to make peace, while the United States Department of State seethed with rage.
A poster below reminded me of one of the most insightful things I've ever seen in a Hollywood production. Delivered, of course, in the Alan Metter masterpiece 'Back to School,' starring Rodney Dangerfield (and a very young Robert Downey, Jr.) Why, you ask, is this movie a masterpiece?
Simply this: there is a subplot where Thornton Melon, Dangerfield's wealthy salt-of-the-earth, plus-size suit chain owner hires Kurt Vonnegut to write an analysis of Kurt Vonnegut fiction. Melon is failed by his professor on the assignment because 'whoever wrote this paper knowns nothing about Kurt Vonnegut.'
It was the harbinger of the academic/government/entertainment nexus that we know today. Any deviation from orthodoxy is clearly fraudulent. Mediocrity is the safest course, because the alternative is cancellation. Being noticed is a terrible risk.
Ironically, Kurt Vonnegut would have an awful lot to say about today's unholy academic/government/entertainment partnership.
"I think hard times are coming when we will be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how we live now and can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies. We will need writers who can remember freedom. Poets, visionaries – the realists of a larger reality."
I loved your discussion of The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. I listened to this last night. Ursula KLG is my favorite science fiction writer and my book has a dedication to her, along with Eduardo Galleano, Anthony Bourdain, Howard Zinn and David Graeber "who imagined the future and illuminated the past by the bright lights of (extra)ordinary people." I told her once that I'd tried to name a daughter after her but the damn sea witch had hijacked the name.
This story & dialog broke my heart. Seems that's what truth does: breaks our hearts open and re-minds us. I want to live on the line between the yin/yang: man, it's thin and wavy. (Haven't figured that out yet.) Literature seems a prism to wisdom, something the news of the world rarely reveals. It usually lands like more noise, evidence of the rot. Drawing the parallels between literature & current events, as Matt & Walter have chosen, is an extraordinary opportunity. Deeply grateful.
I must say again how much we appreciate having a written version of your words. We absorb each form of communication in unique ways. A more complete understanding occurs when we experience both.
I believe the majority of humanity (60%?) does not believe the misery of others is a price to pay for their own comfort, and they make choices and changes when they are able, while also supporting and protecting themselves, their families and communities. The remainder of humanity seem to believe life is a zero-sum game. I'll go with the former.
Wow. Listening to the last 20 minutes or so of your discussion was...therapy. You both said several things that so perfectly describe the work culture of the Federal Government (how the mediocre end up in charge, for example) it's as though you've been at my meetings and reading my work emails. Walter's bit about constantly having to show our tokens of enthusiasm was particularly reverberant: right now, it's the culture wars--everyone is to display pronouns, consider race at all times in all interactions, apply equity (spread it like peanut butter, maybe) to every action taken, and so on. During the last administration, it was to show enthusiasm for "energy dominance," "loyalty to the flag," and other rah-rah slogans.
The pressure for all Federal civilian employees to hold the political views of the party in power seemed to start in the post 9/11 rally against terrorism when if you didn't, in your heart, support every policy that came out from 2001 to about 2005, you were "letting the terrorists win." It used to be possible to stay quiet and let the political stuff blow by like the weather, though. Now things are getting weird. The pressure to demonstrate adherence to the correct values is constant. To remain silent is to risk being accused of not "engaging," "being a team player," or some other wrongthinking sin. As a result, the government workforce is more and more comprised of people who don't spend much time thinking about whether or how their personal views align with what they are told to believe. It's much easier to just adopt the views that are provided. People are pronouning like their lives depend on it. Your tax dollars at work.
Anyway. I love this podcast, I really enjoy your discussions, literary references, and insights. I look forward to many more, as I wait for the drone strike...
Always appreciate the incisive and witty interchange between you two. “Those who Walk Away” an interesting choice, particularly as you apply it to our current political landscape. Walter’s comment about Comey’s new detective novel very funny, humor being one of the things seemingly in short supply in Omelas (maybe reason enough to exit the place).
I used to teach this story to my high school English class to haunting effect and illuminating discussion. I’ve read it myself many times, and the after effect changes, because the moral stance is complicated by the clarity of the absolute nature of the child’s misery. Walking away changes nothing in her condition. Staying to oppose it is not an option the story offers. (btw the child in the story is always referred to as “it”). So, like Melville’s “Bartleby” it becomes not a story about changing things for the better, but saying “NO” to what is.
“Is universal harmony worth the tears of one tortured child?” Dostoevsky, “The Brothers Karamazov”. I guess we have always known the answer, but this is such a high bar for the humankind.
Thank you for the great discussion of a fascinating short story. I had the pleasure of being seated next to Ursula at a sci-fi convention dinner many years ago. Wonderful woman. Ursula, as was the habit of my dear mother, transported the remaining dinner rolls into her purse!
I had a student in one of my 11th grade English classes last year who was obsessed with this story. Interestingly, he was a kid who very rarely did any work in class, ADHD, lots of attendance issues. A fun kid to talk to, but passing very few classes. He turned in what was supposed to be a personal essay, but it was just a rewrite of Omelas. I told him, I know that story, that's an amazing story, but can you write something more original? This wasn't the assignment. He tried to incorporate his own ideas, make it more like an essay, but in the end I think he really just wanted to share that story because it hit him so hard. I think he wanted to be one of the ones who walk away. Maybe part of that was not buying into the whole "success" model of education. Not sure what happened with him, but he was certainly not on track to graduate. Who knows? Maybe he walked away.
Once upon a LONG time ago, I'd read all of Le Guin's books written up to that date, and found her to be one of the more-compelling scifi writers. The article/discussion uses one of her stories as a launching point for discussion, and it's worth reading and thinking about.
To me, the point of the discussion/article (not necessarily the point of Le Guin's story, but the article) is to demonstrate the lost art of having an intelligent discussion about a book or story.
I don't necessarily agree with the discussion that the two writers are having in this article as much as I agree that there is this need to demonstrate HOW to have a discussion in a world where interpersonal communication has been reduced to blasting off a few sentences in a "comment section," whereupon others either absolve you or condemn you via a sort of galloping, impromptu Spanish Inquisition.
Child sacrifice is as old as humanity, as old as the natural instinct among the majority of people to protect rather than sacrifice children. It has been done always and everywhere for religious, cultural and economic reasons. I think that this child is actually a long-suffering god, Jesus or perhaps Prometheus. There seems to be an element of magical thinking in child sacrifice, that if we sacrifice that which is most precious to us that we will be rewarded with an unknown something that is even more precious. Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Isaac just to prove that God is always right despite the apparent contradictions between His promises and his commands. Agamemnon sacrificed Iphigenia in order to appease the goddess Athena and get permission to launch the senseless and brutal Trojan War. There is an ancient Jewish saying that to save one life is to save the world. I think that that is what those who walk away are trying to do, perhaps at the same time hoping that others will follow and in the end the deed will finally be done.
She wrote a bunch of stuff, but I’ve only read Left Hand of Darkness and Lavinia. All good. By the way, her parents were both anthropologists, so she grew up in that atmosphere. A very sad story is the one about Ishi, the last survivor of a California Indian tribe. Somehow academics ended up with custody of Ishi, who eventually pined away for his people. Le Guin’s parents were the academics in charge.
America This Week: "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas"
One of the lies that apologists for empire like to tell us is that the American Empire may be brutal, unjust, self-serving and arbitrary, but that only thr Empire can keep peace.
This lie was blown up when China got the Saudis and Iranians to make peace, while the United States Department of State seethed with rage.
A poster below reminded me of one of the most insightful things I've ever seen in a Hollywood production. Delivered, of course, in the Alan Metter masterpiece 'Back to School,' starring Rodney Dangerfield (and a very young Robert Downey, Jr.) Why, you ask, is this movie a masterpiece?
Simply this: there is a subplot where Thornton Melon, Dangerfield's wealthy salt-of-the-earth, plus-size suit chain owner hires Kurt Vonnegut to write an analysis of Kurt Vonnegut fiction. Melon is failed by his professor on the assignment because 'whoever wrote this paper knowns nothing about Kurt Vonnegut.'
It was the harbinger of the academic/government/entertainment nexus that we know today. Any deviation from orthodoxy is clearly fraudulent. Mediocrity is the safest course, because the alternative is cancellation. Being noticed is a terrible risk.
Ironically, Kurt Vonnegut would have an awful lot to say about today's unholy academic/government/entertainment partnership.
"I think hard times are coming when we will be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how we live now and can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies. We will need writers who can remember freedom. Poets, visionaries – the realists of a larger reality."
—Ursula K. Le Guin, Portland Monthly, 2014
I loved your discussion of The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. I listened to this last night. Ursula KLG is my favorite science fiction writer and my book has a dedication to her, along with Eduardo Galleano, Anthony Bourdain, Howard Zinn and David Graeber "who imagined the future and illuminated the past by the bright lights of (extra)ordinary people." I told her once that I'd tried to name a daughter after her but the damn sea witch had hijacked the name.
https://www.amazon.com/How-Dismantle-Empire-2020-Vision/dp/1733347607
This story & dialog broke my heart. Seems that's what truth does: breaks our hearts open and re-minds us. I want to live on the line between the yin/yang: man, it's thin and wavy. (Haven't figured that out yet.) Literature seems a prism to wisdom, something the news of the world rarely reveals. It usually lands like more noise, evidence of the rot. Drawing the parallels between literature & current events, as Matt & Walter have chosen, is an extraordinary opportunity. Deeply grateful.
I must say again how much we appreciate having a written version of your words. We absorb each form of communication in unique ways. A more complete understanding occurs when we experience both.
Thank you again Matt & Walter
I believe the majority of humanity (60%?) does not believe the misery of others is a price to pay for their own comfort, and they make choices and changes when they are able, while also supporting and protecting themselves, their families and communities. The remainder of humanity seem to believe life is a zero-sum game. I'll go with the former.
Wow. Listening to the last 20 minutes or so of your discussion was...therapy. You both said several things that so perfectly describe the work culture of the Federal Government (how the mediocre end up in charge, for example) it's as though you've been at my meetings and reading my work emails. Walter's bit about constantly having to show our tokens of enthusiasm was particularly reverberant: right now, it's the culture wars--everyone is to display pronouns, consider race at all times in all interactions, apply equity (spread it like peanut butter, maybe) to every action taken, and so on. During the last administration, it was to show enthusiasm for "energy dominance," "loyalty to the flag," and other rah-rah slogans.
The pressure for all Federal civilian employees to hold the political views of the party in power seemed to start in the post 9/11 rally against terrorism when if you didn't, in your heart, support every policy that came out from 2001 to about 2005, you were "letting the terrorists win." It used to be possible to stay quiet and let the political stuff blow by like the weather, though. Now things are getting weird. The pressure to demonstrate adherence to the correct values is constant. To remain silent is to risk being accused of not "engaging," "being a team player," or some other wrongthinking sin. As a result, the government workforce is more and more comprised of people who don't spend much time thinking about whether or how their personal views align with what they are told to believe. It's much easier to just adopt the views that are provided. People are pronouning like their lives depend on it. Your tax dollars at work.
Anyway. I love this podcast, I really enjoy your discussions, literary references, and insights. I look forward to many more, as I wait for the drone strike...
Always appreciate the incisive and witty interchange between you two. “Those who Walk Away” an interesting choice, particularly as you apply it to our current political landscape. Walter’s comment about Comey’s new detective novel very funny, humor being one of the things seemingly in short supply in Omelas (maybe reason enough to exit the place).
I used to teach this story to my high school English class to haunting effect and illuminating discussion. I’ve read it myself many times, and the after effect changes, because the moral stance is complicated by the clarity of the absolute nature of the child’s misery. Walking away changes nothing in her condition. Staying to oppose it is not an option the story offers. (btw the child in the story is always referred to as “it”). So, like Melville’s “Bartleby” it becomes not a story about changing things for the better, but saying “NO” to what is.
“Is universal harmony worth the tears of one tortured child?” Dostoevsky, “The Brothers Karamazov”. I guess we have always known the answer, but this is such a high bar for the humankind.
Thank you both for doing these very important literature discussions. And than you both again for giving us these transcripts.
Thank you for the great discussion of a fascinating short story. I had the pleasure of being seated next to Ursula at a sci-fi convention dinner many years ago. Wonderful woman. Ursula, as was the habit of my dear mother, transported the remaining dinner rolls into her purse!
I had a student in one of my 11th grade English classes last year who was obsessed with this story. Interestingly, he was a kid who very rarely did any work in class, ADHD, lots of attendance issues. A fun kid to talk to, but passing very few classes. He turned in what was supposed to be a personal essay, but it was just a rewrite of Omelas. I told him, I know that story, that's an amazing story, but can you write something more original? This wasn't the assignment. He tried to incorporate his own ideas, make it more like an essay, but in the end I think he really just wanted to share that story because it hit him so hard. I think he wanted to be one of the ones who walk away. Maybe part of that was not buying into the whole "success" model of education. Not sure what happened with him, but he was certainly not on track to graduate. Who knows? Maybe he walked away.
Once upon a LONG time ago, I'd read all of Le Guin's books written up to that date, and found her to be one of the more-compelling scifi writers. The article/discussion uses one of her stories as a launching point for discussion, and it's worth reading and thinking about.
To me, the point of the discussion/article (not necessarily the point of Le Guin's story, but the article) is to demonstrate the lost art of having an intelligent discussion about a book or story.
I don't necessarily agree with the discussion that the two writers are having in this article as much as I agree that there is this need to demonstrate HOW to have a discussion in a world where interpersonal communication has been reduced to blasting off a few sentences in a "comment section," whereupon others either absolve you or condemn you via a sort of galloping, impromptu Spanish Inquisition.
Child sacrifice is as old as humanity, as old as the natural instinct among the majority of people to protect rather than sacrifice children. It has been done always and everywhere for religious, cultural and economic reasons. I think that this child is actually a long-suffering god, Jesus or perhaps Prometheus. There seems to be an element of magical thinking in child sacrifice, that if we sacrifice that which is most precious to us that we will be rewarded with an unknown something that is even more precious. Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Isaac just to prove that God is always right despite the apparent contradictions between His promises and his commands. Agamemnon sacrificed Iphigenia in order to appease the goddess Athena and get permission to launch the senseless and brutal Trojan War. There is an ancient Jewish saying that to save one life is to save the world. I think that that is what those who walk away are trying to do, perhaps at the same time hoping that others will follow and in the end the deed will finally be done.
She wrote a bunch of stuff, but I’ve only read Left Hand of Darkness and Lavinia. All good. By the way, her parents were both anthropologists, so she grew up in that atmosphere. A very sad story is the one about Ishi, the last survivor of a California Indian tribe. Somehow academics ended up with custody of Ishi, who eventually pined away for his people. Le Guin’s parents were the academics in charge.