I understand your point and its funny but It doesn't matter because...entropy and resistance.
The only difference between an internal combustion engine (ICE) and a plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) is the distance to the tailpipe. The same amount of oil and gas are burned to power both. These are nature's laws, not mine. (see: 1st Law of The…
I understand your point and its funny but It doesn't matter because...entropy and resistance.
The only difference between an internal combustion engine (ICE) and a plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) is the distance to the tailpipe. The same amount of oil and gas are burned to power both. These are nature's laws, not mine. (see: 1st Law of Thermodynamics)
The illusion is one of control. If you have a gallon of refined oil (gas/diesel fuel) you are in personal possession of over a hundred million years of the collection by plants of solar energy refined into a gallon of pure potential. If you go all electric, you are trusting someone else to provide you with the very energy you need to live; regardless of your political views or religious beliefs or race...etc.
Totally your call, but if I were you, I'd go with the fossil fuels and autonomy over my life.
They say that Western democracies and specifically The USA has freed billions of people around the world, lifting them from poverty and authoritarian governments. But it was really fossil fuels that allowed this. Don't be so quick to bite the hand that feeds you.
Your comparison of gas and electric is nonsensical. You are reliant on someone else, probably a bone saw wielding Saudi, to produce that gallon of gas every bit as much as for the electricity. Let's not get some kind of emotional attachment to frigging petroleum.
“Your comparison of gas and electric is nonsensical.”
I disagree, of course. ;) They are two sides of the same coin, but one is easy to obtain and decentralizes control of energy; whereas the other requires the 1st (petroleum) and then has astronomical investment in generation plants and infrastructure to distribute and can be cut off instantly by any central command and control. Once I have gas/oil in my possession, you can not stop me from using it. Can you say that about a computer controlled electronic car networked to the world wide web? Whole house heat pump? Water pump?…
“You are reliant on someone else, probably a bone saw wielding Saudi, to produce that gallon of gas every bit as much as for the electricity”
Incorrect.
“Bone saw wielding Saudi”?? WTF??
Petroleum reserves are spread all over the world, and we in the USA have more of it than anyone else. Yes, we are dependent upon professionals and skilled laborers in all sorts of fields of endeavor to provide us with all sorts of things we need to survive like fresh water, electricity, gasoline, food…etc. but at least with petroleum, once it is delivered into our personal possession, we are free to do with it whatever we want. If you centralize control of a distributed resource like electricity, you are completely dependent upon the central authority that controls it for your very existence.
“Let's not get some kind of emotional attachment to frigging petroleum.”
Oh, we are attached at the brain stem to “frigging petroleum” and have been for over 100 years now. Or did you think we went from 1 Billion people to 8 Billion people practically overnight for some other reason?? Look I am not emotional about any of this. I’m just an engineer and thought I would add some of what I have learned over the years studying this subject. I am not emotional about mathematics. The equation is the equation. I am just the messenger.
Post-collapse, if you have the wherewithal to service and repair the oil tank in your basement and overhaul your vehicle's transmission and engine, then you're good to go with oil and gas. If not, what fossil fuel reserves you do have in your possession are best marshaled for oil lanterns and Molotov cocktails.
I think the point is that gas and oil as energy reserves are unconditional. Once you have some, you are not dependent on the political whims of others as to what can be done with it.
Gas can provide electricity but not vice versa. And there is a dependable infrastructure in place to provide it to me; also not so for electricity.
Do you know how much wind and solar would be required to provide the same amount of energy contained underground at a single gas station?
For instance, I have a house in the mountains with two 500 gal tanks of propane. That house can go almost 3 years on full tanks …heating, cooling, cooking, pumping, and if necessary, running a fuel cell for electricity. The reason it is set up this way is not because I fear societal collapse or am some sort of prepper (I rent the house out actually); it’s because of the extreme fluctuation in cost of since 2021 and the unreliability of California electric grid (scheduled and unscheduled power outs and brownouts are up to 4 per month and this doesn’t include them cutting off the power when they worry about wildfire in the summer) so for me, there is already a societal collapse at that house, it happens all the time month after month now for over two years! but I must ensure my income from that property so I store my energy as gas. 500gal of which was bought pre-Biden at $2.35/gal and the other tank is topped off every month, now up to $5/gal delivered.
Don’t need oil lanterns or Molotov cocktails, but if I wanted them, they are there for me. 😂
Very few people have two 500 gallon tanks in their backyard. But having given me a verbal tour of the place, you got a garden shed out back you care to rent or lease?
😂 Yep! There is an 8x10 garden shed available! Nice one too! Deluxe model from Home Depot with doors and windows and everything! It has electricity but nothing else... But this is Santa Barbara, CA, so I'll let it rent out for only $2K/mth! 😂😂😂
Seriously though, the only reason the house is equipped the way it is (two propane tanks, fuel cell, dual-fuel geothermal hvac system, Starlink internet, multiple water sources...etc... is because we've all learned to live "off-grid" if necessary because...California has literally become a 3rd world country in many respects. That isn't hyperbole. I'm just trying to make a few bucks off rental income and I cater to my tenants needs. Everybody works from home now and I like happy productive and solvent tenants.
The point is that there is a worldwide infrastructure in place to provide me with oil and gas.
Not the case with any other form of energy. There is a 80 year old infrastructure in place to provide me with electricity and its been 40 years since the last power plant added to the mix. I live in SoCal and in the last 40 years I believe our population has doubled (about 20M to about 40M). and not a single new power plant? And now we have almost daily interruptions in grid power as well as massive forest fires caused by our deteriorating grid infrastructure.
Seriously you can't make this up, literally the day after our governor and CARB (California Air Resources Board) banned gas powered cars as of 2035 and told us all to go out and buy $70K-100K electric cars, they put out an alert to stop charging our electric cars! Its insane, these people have no clue what they are doing.
I'm not arguing with you. There isn't an EV anywhere in my future unless Joe hands me one free of charge. Even then I'd probably just sell it on Ebay & then use the money for something else.
I bought one because I think they are cool and they have instant-on torque power curve...addictive as hell! But as a practical matter, no, just a rich guy toy and completely useless in most real world crisis scenarios. My "go-to" vehicle is a diesel truck, and an old one at that. :) Funny thing about diesel engines, not dependent on the oil companies if push comes to shove. I ran my truck for 5 years on waste vegetable oil converted to biodiesel in an old water heater I keep in my backyard. It can run on regular vegetable oil too. When diesel exceeded $6/gallon here in Cali last year, I just ordered pallets of vegetable oil from Costco at $4.90/gal 😂
I understand your point and its funny but It doesn't matter because...entropy and resistance.
The only difference between an internal combustion engine (ICE) and a plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) is the distance to the tailpipe. The same amount of oil and gas are burned to power both. These are nature's laws, not mine. (see: 1st Law of Thermodynamics)
The illusion is one of control. If you have a gallon of refined oil (gas/diesel fuel) you are in personal possession of over a hundred million years of the collection by plants of solar energy refined into a gallon of pure potential. If you go all electric, you are trusting someone else to provide you with the very energy you need to live; regardless of your political views or religious beliefs or race...etc.
Totally your call, but if I were you, I'd go with the fossil fuels and autonomy over my life.
They say that Western democracies and specifically The USA has freed billions of people around the world, lifting them from poverty and authoritarian governments. But it was really fossil fuels that allowed this. Don't be so quick to bite the hand that feeds you.
Your comparison of gas and electric is nonsensical. You are reliant on someone else, probably a bone saw wielding Saudi, to produce that gallon of gas every bit as much as for the electricity. Let's not get some kind of emotional attachment to frigging petroleum.
“Your comparison of gas and electric is nonsensical.”
I disagree, of course. ;) They are two sides of the same coin, but one is easy to obtain and decentralizes control of energy; whereas the other requires the 1st (petroleum) and then has astronomical investment in generation plants and infrastructure to distribute and can be cut off instantly by any central command and control. Once I have gas/oil in my possession, you can not stop me from using it. Can you say that about a computer controlled electronic car networked to the world wide web? Whole house heat pump? Water pump?…
“You are reliant on someone else, probably a bone saw wielding Saudi, to produce that gallon of gas every bit as much as for the electricity”
Incorrect.
“Bone saw wielding Saudi”?? WTF??
Petroleum reserves are spread all over the world, and we in the USA have more of it than anyone else. Yes, we are dependent upon professionals and skilled laborers in all sorts of fields of endeavor to provide us with all sorts of things we need to survive like fresh water, electricity, gasoline, food…etc. but at least with petroleum, once it is delivered into our personal possession, we are free to do with it whatever we want. If you centralize control of a distributed resource like electricity, you are completely dependent upon the central authority that controls it for your very existence.
“Let's not get some kind of emotional attachment to frigging petroleum.”
Oh, we are attached at the brain stem to “frigging petroleum” and have been for over 100 years now. Or did you think we went from 1 Billion people to 8 Billion people practically overnight for some other reason?? Look I am not emotional about any of this. I’m just an engineer and thought I would add some of what I have learned over the years studying this subject. I am not emotional about mathematics. The equation is the equation. I am just the messenger.
Post-collapse, if you have the wherewithal to service and repair the oil tank in your basement and overhaul your vehicle's transmission and engine, then you're good to go with oil and gas. If not, what fossil fuel reserves you do have in your possession are best marshaled for oil lanterns and Molotov cocktails.
I think the point is that gas and oil as energy reserves are unconditional. Once you have some, you are not dependent on the political whims of others as to what can be done with it.
Gas can provide electricity but not vice versa. And there is a dependable infrastructure in place to provide it to me; also not so for electricity.
Do you know how much wind and solar would be required to provide the same amount of energy contained underground at a single gas station?
For instance, I have a house in the mountains with two 500 gal tanks of propane. That house can go almost 3 years on full tanks …heating, cooling, cooking, pumping, and if necessary, running a fuel cell for electricity. The reason it is set up this way is not because I fear societal collapse or am some sort of prepper (I rent the house out actually); it’s because of the extreme fluctuation in cost of since 2021 and the unreliability of California electric grid (scheduled and unscheduled power outs and brownouts are up to 4 per month and this doesn’t include them cutting off the power when they worry about wildfire in the summer) so for me, there is already a societal collapse at that house, it happens all the time month after month now for over two years! but I must ensure my income from that property so I store my energy as gas. 500gal of which was bought pre-Biden at $2.35/gal and the other tank is topped off every month, now up to $5/gal delivered.
Don’t need oil lanterns or Molotov cocktails, but if I wanted them, they are there for me. 😂
Very few people have two 500 gallon tanks in their backyard. But having given me a verbal tour of the place, you got a garden shed out back you care to rent or lease?
😂 Yep! There is an 8x10 garden shed available! Nice one too! Deluxe model from Home Depot with doors and windows and everything! It has electricity but nothing else... But this is Santa Barbara, CA, so I'll let it rent out for only $2K/mth! 😂😂😂
Seriously though, the only reason the house is equipped the way it is (two propane tanks, fuel cell, dual-fuel geothermal hvac system, Starlink internet, multiple water sources...etc... is because we've all learned to live "off-grid" if necessary because...California has literally become a 3rd world country in many respects. That isn't hyperbole. I'm just trying to make a few bucks off rental income and I cater to my tenants needs. Everybody works from home now and I like happy productive and solvent tenants.
Unless you have you have a strategic reserve underneath your house, you probably will run out of gas pretty quickly.
Yes but that is not the point.
The point is that there is a worldwide infrastructure in place to provide me with oil and gas.
Not the case with any other form of energy. There is a 80 year old infrastructure in place to provide me with electricity and its been 40 years since the last power plant added to the mix. I live in SoCal and in the last 40 years I believe our population has doubled (about 20M to about 40M). and not a single new power plant? And now we have almost daily interruptions in grid power as well as massive forest fires caused by our deteriorating grid infrastructure.
Seriously you can't make this up, literally the day after our governor and CARB (California Air Resources Board) banned gas powered cars as of 2035 and told us all to go out and buy $70K-100K electric cars, they put out an alert to stop charging our electric cars! Its insane, these people have no clue what they are doing.
I'm not arguing with you. There isn't an EV anywhere in my future unless Joe hands me one free of charge. Even then I'd probably just sell it on Ebay & then use the money for something else.
I bought one because I think they are cool and they have instant-on torque power curve...addictive as hell! But as a practical matter, no, just a rich guy toy and completely useless in most real world crisis scenarios. My "go-to" vehicle is a diesel truck, and an old one at that. :) Funny thing about diesel engines, not dependent on the oil companies if push comes to shove. I ran my truck for 5 years on waste vegetable oil converted to biodiesel in an old water heater I keep in my backyard. It can run on regular vegetable oil too. When diesel exceeded $6/gallon here in Cali last year, I just ordered pallets of vegetable oil from Costco at $4.90/gal 😂
sound common sense, Eric G.