It would be good for protesters to offer a specific plan to remediate or solve the issue they are protesting. The time for rampant resistance is ending. The time for practical, reasonable solution is beginning.
That's the rub. Immigration protesters and activists like Chavez Rodriguez and Bernal in the Biden White House want an open border. They don't want enforcement of any kind. That's destabilizing politically- see NY- and culturally. And see law enforcement. The United States cannot sustain it. You come in without due process you go out the same way. A particular bete noir for me are the "activists" or chronic "protesters" who come here from really crappy countries who become angry revolutionaries demanding "transformation" in the free United States. We should be more like them and we should put the countries they came from before our own. Pound sand. That goes for second generation revolutionaries of which there appear to be many. If you don't like capitalism and if there are too many whites here for you then return to your blighted motherland.
Yikes! I don't at all like "You come in without due process you go out the same way"! Ugly stuff, and "we" can be better than that, no? One perverse aspect of this whole immigration fight is that the clock is always ticking, to mid-terms, to the next election, and the political will and policy could change, so it's full-steam ahead. That makes sense to me, but I think we should just devote adequate staffing and funding to apprehend and then process, BY FULL DUE PROCESS, people caught in this crossfire. It seems important to me that many of them might be no worse than opportunists, who were being given seemingly *very* clear signals to come. I'm not saying I agree with that!!! But if you were given the signal that the official rules, or the law, weren't the "real deal", and thought you could make a better or more prosperous life for yourself, would you decline it out of some moral principle? Talk is cheap, so I'm only asking a rhetorical question there....
We should use lawful, considered due process for all immigration litigation and deportation. Yes, politically motivated lawyers and funders of the Resistance™ will line up to make it expensive and complicated. That's democracy, or what we have left of it, sort of tattered and hurrying home to hold its knees in the shower... Deport people who came illegally. But deport them legally, and don't cut corners. Earn respect via the process. Don't get whatever the opposite of Trump Derangement Syndrome is!
The United States already has a backlog of 3.5 million cases. Many of not most don't show up. Add to that some twelve million. Somebody estimated it would take an absolutely massive effort and dedication of court time and funds that would take 16 years for immigration hearings. And that's with a superhuman effort. New York spent over $7 billion dollars on housing immigrants in recent years. Millions from all over the globe are watching this and if they see that once you get in you can't be expelled, that's it, game over, we're through.
We're at a serious juncture here, such massive influxes can and will effect our form of government and policies --we're seeing that play out in New York and elsewhere, and something needs to be done.
Porous borders is what happened to Rome. We're well on our way. Riots under foreign flags are a hint. I think that's ugly.
Some states are amending laws to permit homeowners to more quickly evict squatters. Once again overcorrection allows squatters to stay in and wreck people's homes for weeks if not months. That's injustice. The same thing needs to be done with immigration. Due process needs to go both ways. If someone breaks into your house do you need due process to get them out? I do wish they would stop rounding up people like a gardener grandfather who has been here for years and focus on the last four years when a lot of damage was done. Especially the gangs who are in over 30 states, shaking down terrorized apartment dwellers, making one apartment house unsellable, the kinds of gangs that basically terrorize some countries below us, blackmailing and threatening journalists and politicians and killing them and their families. Those gangs.
The Democrats or whatever they really are nowadays are intent on holding up every. single. deportation even hardenef criminals. So good luck with due process. I think they have to change it to some form not unlike weddings of a thousand couples. Mass busting in, mass deportation hearings.
For the sake of conversation, I'll take your word for it on the precise numbers of cases, and the somebody who estimated the massive effort dot-dot-dot 16 years with superhuman effort thing. I wasn't arguing that immigration won't effect the country, and was actually saying I agree that something should -- and actually seems to be being -- done.
"Game over, man, game over!" sounds like the terrified private played by Bill Paxton in the "Aliens" movie. Probably not that discrete or definitive.
I don't disagree that there's high weirdness afoot, but take for example the Mexican flag flown at a few California protests. Were the protests organic or orchestrated, or a blend of the two? And how effing easy would it be for someone to wave an effing flag to engineer precisely the kind of strong reaction that got? Too easy, I think, to take with any great seriousness. I'm not saying the immigration issue isn't a serious issue, I'm saying the theatrics of protest and mediagenics are... well... theater and media.
I don't know real details about the state laws around squatters and homeowners, but I don't think, generally, the U.S. is very hospitable to squatters in general, regardless of where they come from. The example you give about squatters wrecking places is clearly an easy moral/legal/ethical case, and would represent injustice when and where it happens.
Glad you can agree about the ugly misfortune of rounding up "gardener grandfather". I'm in Virginia and was surprised to learn recently about how many sanctuary cities or towns there are here. I'm sure gang activity is a real thing, I just can't tell, from a broad array of sources (beyond chat forums like this) how substantiated these things are. They're so useful to all sides of a highly politicized issue, so I can't really trust opinion in lieu, or in place of, seeing hard evidence. I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying show me, or point me to, some hard evidence. I'm sure there ARE gangs, and that free-for-all immigration is bound to be exploited by criminal elements.
I'm firmly against illegal immigration, but really do love the American cultural mix of immigrants, descendants of former slaves, and still-extant Injuns. Love the mixture. But we've got to tighten up the borders (very much being done, from all I can glean from the news), get a handle on nefarious illegal immigrant forces (which seems also to be improving), and then try to honor our ideals and not debase ourselves and the kinds of things we celebrate on the 4th of July processing deportees fairly.
Think of it this way: if your stats and numbers are even remotely correct, isn't this a long-term jobs program for everyone involved? Law enforcement, paralegals, lawyers, judges, guards and reporters? Everyone gets a job. :) (It's like abortion: Everyone should get them, because you know why? Jobs. The doctor, the check-in person, the dumpster guy. Everyone gets a job. Ba-DUM-bump.)
To me, due process just means honoring our principles, not holding some pie-in-the-sky virtue clown notion of justice. It'll still be plenty ugly. Human beings will still sit around in cages, and people will still be moved through the cold hands of the justice system. There'll be violent or criminal folks, and there'll be basically misguided folks churned through the same process. It'll happen slower than anyone who cares about it would prefer. But we can stay kindasorta the good guys, instead of vengeful retributive... oh, I dunno, choose your own word, you know where I'm going with that.
16-year jobs program for America! Everybody wins! :)
Brian, I hear you and I agree we need both sides of the argument to keep us honest. But here comes the big but. Start with the fact that we are trying to manage millions of completely unvetted migrants who are not in the country legally. At this point how many months has it been since Kristi Noem put the word out? They know they are here illegally. Self deport or you will be arrested, deported and forbidden from coming back. Seems to me they’ve made their choice and that choice is to avoid and ignore our laws while receiving as much money, health care and housing as they can all at the cost of the taxpayer. There is a reason why our immigration process is so difficult. The process was never designed to support 300,000 migrants in a month. Neither is the immigration court system set up for that kind of volume. The entire process under Biden was done intentionally to overwhelm the system leaving exactly the monumental problem we have now. All that aside we should not be taking in the world’s poor, or downtrodden or malcontents while we have our own poor and mentally disabled living on the streets. If someone wants due process then get your ass down to an immigration office and ask for help either starting the legal immigration process or self deporting. Waiting until we commit resources and money and put ICE agents at risk to round them up is not the time to decry due process.
We don’t disagree at all about the good commen sense wisdom of prioritizing our own citizens. But do you mean to tell me we can’t make deportation profitable? I’m making a dark joke, but if we can make war and post-war reconstruction profitable, or make disease profitable, or make people’s pet’s unduly profitable, do you really think we can’t make funding and hiring the people necessary to process illegal immigrants for deportation profitable? That’s basically the ‘Murikan way! I like lots of things about America, I’m just injecting some levity. But seriously: Why have faith in the country at all if you can’t see even the possibility of us being able to marshall the will — and the most profitable undertaking of law — to get this done over the course of a decade-or-so, without debasing ourselves in the process?
It’s nowhere near my main hope, but I’d like to get back to being admired by other countries for more than “democracy” (AKA “whoop-ass”), the dollar, and organized covert f—kery. So I’m for patience, coupled with serious RIGHT NOW organizing to make sure our soon-to-be-elected officials know, whichever side of the sock puppet aisle they’re on, that they aren’t getting elected if they don’t get with the program we’re talking about in this chat forum.
Trump’s BBB act will cut off the historical $ money flow from Federal government back to the States. Each governor will have to now decide what to fund, and what goes by the wayside. It’s likely a seismic shift. Read about it here:
I think it is now Alexander Soros (real last name Schwartz, was changed by his grandfather) who chairs the Board of Directors of the Open Society Foundations. A couple of weeks ago he married Pant Suit's favorite female, Huma Abedin.
Yes, he will come through for the Dem, as many corporations are stepping back while T is in office.
I think the Dems are a lost cause and a new liberal Marxist party will appear to challenge MAGA because the Dems have no credibility and Barrack Obama has been exposed as the man behind Biden
I wonder if their content would change if they were doing some Richard Feynman 11/13 or some other weird time signature? (With apologies for a YooToob link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKTSaezB4p8)
That is a question, but not a solution. Graft and cruelty are human pathologies that ruin any efforts at human betterment. So maybe protesting is a waste. We all know about graft and cruelty.
And IIRC, this is a DETENTION CENTER. That is, it's not a PRISON per se. They are there for a short time and will be sent back home or wherever. Prisons morph into their own pathology over time. It looks like people won't be there long enough for that to happen. I could be wrong.
Most of the protesters don't even know why they are there. Some of them might have opinions but if you really talked to them, you'd quickly realize they are arguing for less salt at a Pepper convention....
You would think people would want a solution! But in my experience, they don't. They want someone else to fix it for them without any effort on their part. For example, I wrote the book End Politics Now (https://a.co/d/hN7LzlC) with the first practical solution to the political divide. I could understand it if people read the book and disagreed or had a better idea. It even has an implementation plan. But most people aren't interested in an actual solution. Maybe someday people will want one but I'm not sure anymore that that's human nature.
Because the funding is drying up. And once Soros, Sr. passes away, little Alex will not have the stones to keep things going. It's all reflexive for him. Not a life long passion like his evil Daddy.
Are there any aspects of globalism, or pan/post-nationalism, that you think are beneficial, or could be beneficial? Can you see anything bigger than nationalism that might be desirable? I'm not being snotty. What would it take for you to think such a thing might be worthwhile?
Betsy: The plan should be to show some generosity and forgiveness and let the illegals stay in the country. Yes, make the borders as difficult to trespass as possible from now on, but what's done is done. The vast majority of illegals are gainfully employed at low level jobs that natural-born Americans don't want and are contributing to the economy. Most have spouses and kids. They're not serial killers and dog eaters. Trump and Stephen Miller's grand plan to rip hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, most of them poor and working class, out of the communities in which they live, is going to have dire consequences for the soul of this country, making it into one as horribly callous and brutish Trump and Miller are themselves. God knows how cruelly we will begin treating other vulnerable populations as this process progresses.
That is patently false, Hugh. And a bit patronizing. You clearly get all your talking points from MSDNC and don't have up front and close interaction. The ones going to Florida are proven gang members, rapists, multiple offenders, cartel members, and drug runners. Dredged from the worst of the worst in all the countries where O'Biden scraped them from.
Give me your data source for your statement about the "vast majority." Prove me wrong about your lie that "natural born Americans" don't want those jobs. That lie was smashed when hundreds of people showed up to apply for jobs after an ICE raid.
I had a neighbor from the Caribbean once who was disgusted with the way Americans "worship their pets" as his opinion was they are only for food.
And no matter how you slice it, there are rules in every. single. country for entry. If you did not use Due Process to come in, you don't get Due process to be kicked out. There are 7 Billion people in the world. Why do natural citizens of America have to carry the weight of the world? Why don't these people "looking for a better life" challenge their own governments the way we did in 1776 and take their rightful countries back. If you are so intent on making the world "fair" for everyone, go to their home countries and fix it.
I have loved many dogs, but I utterly fail to see how cultural differences about which animals people eat rises to the level of a political discussion. In America, the average dog-owner spends several thousand dollars on their dog over its lifetime. In Taiwan, they tie them to a stake and expect them to bark and alert them to traffic, because they have amazing ears. In Africa, at least until recently, Rhodesian Ridgebacks were expect to enter the fray with lions. And in some places in China or Indonesia they eat dogs. So what? Guinean cannibals call people "long pork" because they apparently taste very much like pigs. What is the POLITICAL significance of any of this? I say none at all, and that it's hogwash.
Haitians would have been better off, from the very start if they didn't, like Cuba, have the misfortune of being situated so close to the United States. I doubt international or U.S.-led efforts to wrest control from those ever-so-evil gangs we can read about regularly in the NSA -- sorry, NY -- Times is going to result in significantly better circumstances for the "average" Haitian. Who cares if Haitians eat dogs, simps?
Yes I agree totally. But If we don't address the cause of all of this, we will have served the purpose of what can only be called at best, the heartless men who play God with humanity. Trump, imv, is not one of them, but an agent of the Light who stands amidst the evil and hopes to show its face to the rest of us so that WE will turn away from it and realize half who we are as one humanity. See: https://thefutureofhumanity.substack.com/p/open-borders-or-open-hearts.
I honestly hope you are joking about Trump, Betsy. To paraphrase Woody Allen, if Jesus Christ were to return to Trump's America, he wouldn't be able to stop throwing up.
It’s so tedious watching these whiny wannabe protesters appear with their tired “hey hey, ho ho” slogans every time the rule of law is enforced
. Of course, they never bother to articulate THEIR version of a just immigration policy. Open borders? Food stamps for illegal felons? Rights equivalent to those of U.S. citizens? When did we vote to become the taxpayer funded repository for all the people whose countries are failed states, mostly due to policies like those advocated by these semi professional protesters?
Tedious is the cogent word. For those of us who were in college in the late 60s when protests were new, seeing old people dusting off their 60s “hey-hos” is tedious and a bit pathetic. Our generation has left future generations with debt and unrealistic expectations that governments will take care of us. This entitled, victim stance dooms its adherents to lives of protest and misery.
Wrong. I have worked since I was 15. I work at 61 and still “hey Ho.” Your “never” is what makes cruelty easy. Distance and assumptions are the real lazy problem.
Some of those failed states are due to piggish US military interventions so we owe these refugees from our regime change wars something. Of course American pigs, both liberals and conservatives, continue the slaveowning, rapist, racist traditions of our floundering fathers.
The largest number of illegals comes from Mexico. NAFTA was a disaster for many Mexicans as agricultural jobs declined, agricultural exports suffered from American competition, and wages stagnated, leaving those outside the manufacturing zones impoverished. Eventually, many factories also closed, adding to the problem. Not exactly regime change, but certainly NAFTA was a net loss for both Mexican and American workers. Trump was right to end it.
The DNC/Soros/Mayorkas NGO grift lined the pockets of their political operatives with tax largesse--and as intended--created chaos while diverting attention from the actual serious problems facing citizens of our Republic. The perps continue to flout--at the expense of deserving Americans--actual immigration law. The American treasury continues to bleed and state and federal insiders continue to line their pockets.
Why? Because oikophobia sells. The surveillance machine and the managerial elite it serves used illegal immigration to destroy Europe, strip her people of civil liberties and bring down Western culture.
Why is American infrastructure in collapse? Why can't little Jane and Johnny read? How is it that American industrial cities are gutted? Because--as in Europe We the People (Black/White/Brown/Red/Yellow) are being colonized and replaced through mass forced illegal migration. The perps want uneducated disposable labor and access to all natural resources for personal gain and access without oversight or consequence. It's not something else.
Love yourself. Love your Republic. Depart the psyop and live.
No we don't. What we owe the world is to stop the ClownsInAmerica from doing regime change. If you think it was "The United States" that did those military interventions, then you are listening to too much garbage TV. Every single time that happens, it's not the US. It's the Deep State. It's the Rockefellers and their ilk using our Intelligence agencies to do their bidding. It's the neocons who make money on the transfers of power, who launder money through our AID.
This is why we are so happy about killing USAID. Whistleblowers have said that only around 2% of that money was used for AID. Most was bribes, laundering, and paying for corruption.
Frankly, your insults about the brave men who founded this country tells me you really need to move to another country, because you don't get it.
***Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?***
***Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.***
***They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.***
***What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.***
Mexico? Central America? Cuba? Venezuela? India? Iran? Come on Barry, try harder.
Your comment about America "continuing the slaveowning, rapist and racist traditions..." doesn't deserve a response. Renew your passport. It's a big world out there, and someone will value your perspective. Somewhere.
Iran in 1953 and 1979, two major coups. Perhaps this will bring you up to date on the hundreds of US military interventions including those in almost all the countries you questioned. You can call names and shut down discussion with your personal.prejudices but history cannot be shut down. Ignored but not shut down. https://archive.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-interventions.html
Please remind the protesters that drug cartels made literally billions trafficking illegals here and are largely responsible for dumping the worst humans in our country. Why is it we never see protesters condemning the cartels?
Because the cartels are funding the protests. Just like the urban gangs are behind the defund the police movement. And Iran is paying for the whole “Free Palestine” bullshit. And upwardly mobile socialists looking to buy expensive houses drove “Black Lives Matter.”
Whenever I see an obviously inorganic “movement” I ask myself “who would benefit most if they got their way?”
So true. The cartel mafias have long taken over what is left of markets in Mexico. Now they’re here collecting a percentage on illegal laborers and rent, stash houses and cash equivalent Snap cards.
What distinguishes the cartel, or a syndicate, from a corrupt government? Would you perhaps agree that instead of talking about the left, the right, liberals, conservatives, progressives, socialists, or communists, we'd be much better off uniting against corruption?
This was an outstanding idea by our Florida Governor. This is deterrence times 10, much like self protection, for example you don’t have to use the 44 magnum you carry, the punk just has to know you have it. I know that all of our great people at ICE have set up a hospitable holding facility, beds, blankets, porto-John’s, and food service. It is the image that the great Florida Attorney General has conveyed that is going to persuade a lot of illegal aliens to go back where they came from. Congratulations to all involved in this endeavor, this is what America has needed for a long time, politics s that say what they are going to do and then do it….
This is hardly a new idea. For decades Australians have sent illegal migrants to snake and mosquito infested island compounds, surrounded by saltwater crocs, to await adjudication of their asylum claims.
Lacking AC, it does not take long for migrants to request an immediate ride back to their country of origin. It saves Australians the cost, hassle and bad PR of mass deportations. The system has acted as a deterrent to illegal immigration for decades.
I do not recall anyone complaining about the situation, anywhere in the world, when the Aussies invented the idea. Now US protesters claim the US Holiday Inn version of the idea is evil?
The only accepted Dem outcome is everyone, who is not a violent criminal, be allowed to stay, with no regard to the permanent financial burdens placed on tax payers. Medicaid spending has increased 60% since 2019, per the WSJ. It must just be a coincidence that coincides with Dems purposefully dissolving the Southern border.
This is a non-starter. These people don't believe in borders or the concept of legal/illegal citizens. In fact, they think American citizens who oppose open borders should pack up and leave because 'colonialism'. If we can't even agree on first principles might as well have some fun. Hello: Alligator Alcatraz! 🐊
There is another option. Illegal immigrants can choose to self-deport by using the CBP Home Mobile App, which allows them to voluntarily notify the U.S. government of their intent to leave the country. This program offers incentives such as cost-free travel, a $1,000 exit bonus, and temporary de-prioritization from detention by ICE while they prepare to depart.
It is amazing that these groups whether the Dakota Access Pipeline to Alligator Alcatraz, all look exactly alike! Crappy signs, tons of trash, same ole tunes and just running on empty, since not one honk do you hear.
Seems most of these democrats do not have day jobs and can just travel around the country and protest. I would love to know who is providing the funding and organization required for these childish, never ending shit shows.
I think all of us understand that the problem is deeper than the protestors fronting the chaos. The Mayorkas/Soros NGO (Darien Gap) grift was international in scope. European culture/civil liberties have been destroyed and the Brussels perps behind the destruction are stepping up for the final throw down. As in the Netherlands seizure of American public lands is now on the table. Paid protestors? Consider a paid managerial elite and the surveillance apparatus (Palantir) that serves it. Mostly--as in the mass illegal importation of 20,000,000 people--paid for with American tax treasure. Meanwhile our Republic is in collapse and the economic looting continues.
It'll be amusing to see whether Rs or Ds can fundraise the most off of this enterprise. Also would be interesting to see photos of the detention centers of the Obama/Biden regimes for comparison, before the 'news' media quacks too much about Oświęcim.
There are many points of view on this facility. But 8 days? Wow! We can’t schedule a planning session for a feasibility study in California in 8 days, no matter the goal or cause.
I wish someone would quantify the environmental impacts of the mass immigration into the U.S. during the Biden years. I'm thinking about millions traveling thousands of miles and about the Darien Gap and how these people were kept hydrated in transit, etc. ... Critics should blame immigrants for anything they don't like about Alligator Alcatraz. They are the ones belong behind bars and if ICE hasn't caught them they can self-deport. If reports about the center scare illegals into leaving the country, that would be a win all the way around.
There is always a minority percentage of malcontents, mentally ill, refugees, criminals, and anarchists in the general population. The vast majority of them are Democrat activists who do not contribute to a healthy country, but always have time to protest.
The protestors pretend to be doing something, and the media pretends to care.
I assume Alligator Alcatraz would provide them a place to send every high profile illegal immigrant while a judge blocks their deportation, and also makes headlines for everyone in Central and South America to see and start scared rumors about.
It would be good for protesters to offer a specific plan to remediate or solve the issue they are protesting. The time for rampant resistance is ending. The time for practical, reasonable solution is beginning.
That's the rub. Immigration protesters and activists like Chavez Rodriguez and Bernal in the Biden White House want an open border. They don't want enforcement of any kind. That's destabilizing politically- see NY- and culturally. And see law enforcement. The United States cannot sustain it. You come in without due process you go out the same way. A particular bete noir for me are the "activists" or chronic "protesters" who come here from really crappy countries who become angry revolutionaries demanding "transformation" in the free United States. We should be more like them and we should put the countries they came from before our own. Pound sand. That goes for second generation revolutionaries of which there appear to be many. If you don't like capitalism and if there are too many whites here for you then return to your blighted motherland.
This isn't a protest. These are saboteurs and they're armed and they're violent.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14877857/ice-detention-center-portland-oregon-crowd-storm-holding-cells.html
They're
Yikes! I don't at all like "You come in without due process you go out the same way"! Ugly stuff, and "we" can be better than that, no? One perverse aspect of this whole immigration fight is that the clock is always ticking, to mid-terms, to the next election, and the political will and policy could change, so it's full-steam ahead. That makes sense to me, but I think we should just devote adequate staffing and funding to apprehend and then process, BY FULL DUE PROCESS, people caught in this crossfire. It seems important to me that many of them might be no worse than opportunists, who were being given seemingly *very* clear signals to come. I'm not saying I agree with that!!! But if you were given the signal that the official rules, or the law, weren't the "real deal", and thought you could make a better or more prosperous life for yourself, would you decline it out of some moral principle? Talk is cheap, so I'm only asking a rhetorical question there....
We should use lawful, considered due process for all immigration litigation and deportation. Yes, politically motivated lawyers and funders of the Resistance™ will line up to make it expensive and complicated. That's democracy, or what we have left of it, sort of tattered and hurrying home to hold its knees in the shower... Deport people who came illegally. But deport them legally, and don't cut corners. Earn respect via the process. Don't get whatever the opposite of Trump Derangement Syndrome is!
The United States already has a backlog of 3.5 million cases. Many of not most don't show up. Add to that some twelve million. Somebody estimated it would take an absolutely massive effort and dedication of court time and funds that would take 16 years for immigration hearings. And that's with a superhuman effort. New York spent over $7 billion dollars on housing immigrants in recent years. Millions from all over the globe are watching this and if they see that once you get in you can't be expelled, that's it, game over, we're through.
We're at a serious juncture here, such massive influxes can and will effect our form of government and policies --we're seeing that play out in New York and elsewhere, and something needs to be done.
Porous borders is what happened to Rome. We're well on our way. Riots under foreign flags are a hint. I think that's ugly.
Some states are amending laws to permit homeowners to more quickly evict squatters. Once again overcorrection allows squatters to stay in and wreck people's homes for weeks if not months. That's injustice. The same thing needs to be done with immigration. Due process needs to go both ways. If someone breaks into your house do you need due process to get them out? I do wish they would stop rounding up people like a gardener grandfather who has been here for years and focus on the last four years when a lot of damage was done. Especially the gangs who are in over 30 states, shaking down terrorized apartment dwellers, making one apartment house unsellable, the kinds of gangs that basically terrorize some countries below us, blackmailing and threatening journalists and politicians and killing them and their families. Those gangs.
The Democrats or whatever they really are nowadays are intent on holding up every. single. deportation even hardenef criminals. So good luck with due process. I think they have to change it to some form not unlike weddings of a thousand couples. Mass busting in, mass deportation hearings.
For the sake of conversation, I'll take your word for it on the precise numbers of cases, and the somebody who estimated the massive effort dot-dot-dot 16 years with superhuman effort thing. I wasn't arguing that immigration won't effect the country, and was actually saying I agree that something should -- and actually seems to be being -- done.
"Game over, man, game over!" sounds like the terrified private played by Bill Paxton in the "Aliens" movie. Probably not that discrete or definitive.
I don't disagree that there's high weirdness afoot, but take for example the Mexican flag flown at a few California protests. Were the protests organic or orchestrated, or a blend of the two? And how effing easy would it be for someone to wave an effing flag to engineer precisely the kind of strong reaction that got? Too easy, I think, to take with any great seriousness. I'm not saying the immigration issue isn't a serious issue, I'm saying the theatrics of protest and mediagenics are... well... theater and media.
I don't know real details about the state laws around squatters and homeowners, but I don't think, generally, the U.S. is very hospitable to squatters in general, regardless of where they come from. The example you give about squatters wrecking places is clearly an easy moral/legal/ethical case, and would represent injustice when and where it happens.
Glad you can agree about the ugly misfortune of rounding up "gardener grandfather". I'm in Virginia and was surprised to learn recently about how many sanctuary cities or towns there are here. I'm sure gang activity is a real thing, I just can't tell, from a broad array of sources (beyond chat forums like this) how substantiated these things are. They're so useful to all sides of a highly politicized issue, so I can't really trust opinion in lieu, or in place of, seeing hard evidence. I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying show me, or point me to, some hard evidence. I'm sure there ARE gangs, and that free-for-all immigration is bound to be exploited by criminal elements.
I'm firmly against illegal immigration, but really do love the American cultural mix of immigrants, descendants of former slaves, and still-extant Injuns. Love the mixture. But we've got to tighten up the borders (very much being done, from all I can glean from the news), get a handle on nefarious illegal immigrant forces (which seems also to be improving), and then try to honor our ideals and not debase ourselves and the kinds of things we celebrate on the 4th of July processing deportees fairly.
Think of it this way: if your stats and numbers are even remotely correct, isn't this a long-term jobs program for everyone involved? Law enforcement, paralegals, lawyers, judges, guards and reporters? Everyone gets a job. :) (It's like abortion: Everyone should get them, because you know why? Jobs. The doctor, the check-in person, the dumpster guy. Everyone gets a job. Ba-DUM-bump.)
To me, due process just means honoring our principles, not holding some pie-in-the-sky virtue clown notion of justice. It'll still be plenty ugly. Human beings will still sit around in cages, and people will still be moved through the cold hands of the justice system. There'll be violent or criminal folks, and there'll be basically misguided folks churned through the same process. It'll happen slower than anyone who cares about it would prefer. But we can stay kindasorta the good guys, instead of vengeful retributive... oh, I dunno, choose your own word, you know where I'm going with that.
16-year jobs program for America! Everybody wins! :)
Oh golly, I cant read this.
Brian, I hear you and I agree we need both sides of the argument to keep us honest. But here comes the big but. Start with the fact that we are trying to manage millions of completely unvetted migrants who are not in the country legally. At this point how many months has it been since Kristi Noem put the word out? They know they are here illegally. Self deport or you will be arrested, deported and forbidden from coming back. Seems to me they’ve made their choice and that choice is to avoid and ignore our laws while receiving as much money, health care and housing as they can all at the cost of the taxpayer. There is a reason why our immigration process is so difficult. The process was never designed to support 300,000 migrants in a month. Neither is the immigration court system set up for that kind of volume. The entire process under Biden was done intentionally to overwhelm the system leaving exactly the monumental problem we have now. All that aside we should not be taking in the world’s poor, or downtrodden or malcontents while we have our own poor and mentally disabled living on the streets. If someone wants due process then get your ass down to an immigration office and ask for help either starting the legal immigration process or self deporting. Waiting until we commit resources and money and put ICE agents at risk to round them up is not the time to decry due process.
We don’t disagree at all about the good commen sense wisdom of prioritizing our own citizens. But do you mean to tell me we can’t make deportation profitable? I’m making a dark joke, but if we can make war and post-war reconstruction profitable, or make disease profitable, or make people’s pet’s unduly profitable, do you really think we can’t make funding and hiring the people necessary to process illegal immigrants for deportation profitable? That’s basically the ‘Murikan way! I like lots of things about America, I’m just injecting some levity. But seriously: Why have faith in the country at all if you can’t see even the possibility of us being able to marshall the will — and the most profitable undertaking of law — to get this done over the course of a decade-or-so, without debasing ourselves in the process?
It’s nowhere near my main hope, but I’d like to get back to being admired by other countries for more than “democracy” (AKA “whoop-ass”), the dollar, and organized covert f—kery. So I’m for patience, coupled with serious RIGHT NOW organizing to make sure our soon-to-be-elected officials know, whichever side of the sock puppet aisle they’re on, that they aren’t getting elected if they don’t get with the program we’re talking about in this chat forum.
No constant flow of free stuff -produced and transported by and through capital investment and markets. Come to the U.S., get free capitalist stuff!
Trump’s BBB act will cut off the historical $ money flow from Federal government back to the States. Each governor will have to now decide what to fund, and what goes by the wayside. It’s likely a seismic shift. Read about it here:
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/complications-saturday-july-5-2025?triedRedirect=true
Rent a crowd
That is why the Dems are starting to feel short on cash. The crowds are expensive.
George Soros major Democrat donor
I think it is now Alexander Soros (real last name Schwartz, was changed by his grandfather) who chairs the Board of Directors of the Open Society Foundations. A couple of weeks ago he married Pant Suit's favorite female, Huma Abedin.
Yes, he will come through for the Dem, as many corporations are stepping back while T is in office.
I think the Dems are a lost cause and a new liberal Marxist party will appear to challenge MAGA because the Dems have no credibility and Barrack Obama has been exposed as the man behind Biden
I think you are right as the current political powers (WEF/bankers) are not getting what they want from the current dems in congress.
The decades spent transforming gov and conditioning the dem voters can't just be swept aside, there will be doubling down.
I like to hope that it is close but ever so far away if the MAGA movement continues on with Vance.
Barrack the socialist told everyone in 2008 who and what he was. Dem's had decades of conditioning so were all onboard.
they’re out of money because USAID is gone. the NGOs can’t launder tax money to the DNC anymore.
Protesters will definitely offer an alternative solution-but only if the words rhyme and can be chanted in 4/4.
I wonder if their content would change if they were doing some Richard Feynman 11/13 or some other weird time signature? (With apologies for a YooToob link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKTSaezB4p8)
And what is the issue that the solution to it is political graft and cruelty?
How is it any more cruel than any other prison? Take a tour sometime.
More men than women are raped in US prisons.
Cruelty is the point.
Sounds like they have animals in the right place.
Nah.
That's messed up.
We should at least make an effort to rehabilitate people, and protect the prisoners from each other.
Those who cannot control their impulses should be prevented from hurting anyone else -- including fellow prisoners.
So you support rape? Good to know. Hope you don't have children.
I don't see any difference between them and you.
That is a question, but not a solution. Graft and cruelty are human pathologies that ruin any efforts at human betterment. So maybe protesting is a waste. We all know about graft and cruelty.
And IIRC, this is a DETENTION CENTER. That is, it's not a PRISON per se. They are there for a short time and will be sent back home or wherever. Prisons morph into their own pathology over time. It looks like people won't be there long enough for that to happen. I could be wrong.
Most of the protesters don't even know why they are there. Some of them might have opinions but if you really talked to them, you'd quickly realize they are arguing for less salt at a Pepper convention....
You would think people would want a solution! But in my experience, they don't. They want someone else to fix it for them without any effort on their part. For example, I wrote the book End Politics Now (https://a.co/d/hN7LzlC) with the first practical solution to the political divide. I could understand it if people read the book and disagreed or had a better idea. It even has an implementation plan. But most people aren't interested in an actual solution. Maybe someday people will want one but I'm not sure anymore that that's human nature.
A solution would end their fun..............
The time for funded protests is waning
Because the funding is drying up. And once Soros, Sr. passes away, little Alex will not have the stones to keep things going. It's all reflexive for him. Not a life long passion like his evil Daddy.
Are there any aspects of globalism, or pan/post-nationalism, that you think are beneficial, or could be beneficial? Can you see anything bigger than nationalism that might be desirable? I'm not being snotty. What would it take for you to think such a thing might be worthwhile?
Betsy: The plan should be to show some generosity and forgiveness and let the illegals stay in the country. Yes, make the borders as difficult to trespass as possible from now on, but what's done is done. The vast majority of illegals are gainfully employed at low level jobs that natural-born Americans don't want and are contributing to the economy. Most have spouses and kids. They're not serial killers and dog eaters. Trump and Stephen Miller's grand plan to rip hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, most of them poor and working class, out of the communities in which they live, is going to have dire consequences for the soul of this country, making it into one as horribly callous and brutish Trump and Miller are themselves. God knows how cruelly we will begin treating other vulnerable populations as this process progresses.
That is patently false, Hugh. And a bit patronizing. You clearly get all your talking points from MSDNC and don't have up front and close interaction. The ones going to Florida are proven gang members, rapists, multiple offenders, cartel members, and drug runners. Dredged from the worst of the worst in all the countries where O'Biden scraped them from.
Give me your data source for your statement about the "vast majority." Prove me wrong about your lie that "natural born Americans" don't want those jobs. That lie was smashed when hundreds of people showed up to apply for jobs after an ICE raid.
And, sorry, actually the Haitians WERE capturing pets and eating them. That happens all over the world. In fact, last week was the Yulin Dog Meat festival in China. https://www.four-paws.org/our-stories/press-releases/june-2020/dog-meat-festival-takes-place-in-china-despite-new-regulation-that-protects-dogs
I had a neighbor from the Caribbean once who was disgusted with the way Americans "worship their pets" as his opinion was they are only for food.
And no matter how you slice it, there are rules in every. single. country for entry. If you did not use Due Process to come in, you don't get Due process to be kicked out. There are 7 Billion people in the world. Why do natural citizens of America have to carry the weight of the world? Why don't these people "looking for a better life" challenge their own governments the way we did in 1776 and take their rightful countries back. If you are so intent on making the world "fair" for everyone, go to their home countries and fix it.
I have loved many dogs, but I utterly fail to see how cultural differences about which animals people eat rises to the level of a political discussion. In America, the average dog-owner spends several thousand dollars on their dog over its lifetime. In Taiwan, they tie them to a stake and expect them to bark and alert them to traffic, because they have amazing ears. In Africa, at least until recently, Rhodesian Ridgebacks were expect to enter the fray with lions. And in some places in China or Indonesia they eat dogs. So what? Guinean cannibals call people "long pork" because they apparently taste very much like pigs. What is the POLITICAL significance of any of this? I say none at all, and that it's hogwash.
Haitians would have been better off, from the very start if they didn't, like Cuba, have the misfortune of being situated so close to the United States. I doubt international or U.S.-led efforts to wrest control from those ever-so-evil gangs we can read about regularly in the NSA -- sorry, NY -- Times is going to result in significantly better circumstances for the "average" Haitian. Who cares if Haitians eat dogs, simps?
BS.
There are Americans who would do those jobs -- at higher pay, of course.
Employers don't want that, though, because illegal aliens are cheaper, and more compliant.
Yes, many have spouses and children who are being supported by US taxpayers.
Yes I agree totally. But If we don't address the cause of all of this, we will have served the purpose of what can only be called at best, the heartless men who play God with humanity. Trump, imv, is not one of them, but an agent of the Light who stands amidst the evil and hopes to show its face to the rest of us so that WE will turn away from it and realize half who we are as one humanity. See: https://thefutureofhumanity.substack.com/p/open-borders-or-open-hearts.
I honestly hope you are joking about Trump, Betsy. To paraphrase Woody Allen, if Jesus Christ were to return to Trump's America, he wouldn't be able to stop throwing up.
Consider carefully. No one can tell you what to think. Think for yourself.
Well said. I'm not betting a penny on it happening.
Reminds me of the old joke about getting a mule to obey by hitting it up alongside the ears with a two-by-four -- just to get its attention ...
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/crosby040502.asp
It’s so tedious watching these whiny wannabe protesters appear with their tired “hey hey, ho ho” slogans every time the rule of law is enforced
. Of course, they never bother to articulate THEIR version of a just immigration policy. Open borders? Food stamps for illegal felons? Rights equivalent to those of U.S. citizens? When did we vote to become the taxpayer funded repository for all the people whose countries are failed states, mostly due to policies like those advocated by these semi professional protesters?
Tedious is the cogent word. For those of us who were in college in the late 60s when protests were new, seeing old people dusting off their 60s “hey-hos” is tedious and a bit pathetic. Our generation has left future generations with debt and unrealistic expectations that governments will take care of us. This entitled, victim stance dooms its adherents to lives of protest and misery.
Absolutely! Individuals will NEVER get anything out of life playing the victim.
Every 60's protestor was valorous and sincere, of course...
one thing they never chant is "hey hey ho ho it’s off to work we go"
So you're valorizing toil and... the Seven Dwarves? :)
Little people, please…🕴️
…says the internet chat forum commentator… :)
Wrong. I have worked since I was 15. I work at 61 and still “hey Ho.” Your “never” is what makes cruelty easy. Distance and assumptions are the real lazy problem.
You just won “Best Comment of the Week”!!!
Hysterical!
Some of those failed states are due to piggish US military interventions so we owe these refugees from our regime change wars something. Of course American pigs, both liberals and conservatives, continue the slaveowning, rapist, racist traditions of our floundering fathers.
LOL
The largest number of illegals comes from Mexico. NAFTA was a disaster for many Mexicans as agricultural jobs declined, agricultural exports suffered from American competition, and wages stagnated, leaving those outside the manufacturing zones impoverished. Eventually, many factories also closed, adding to the problem. Not exactly regime change, but certainly NAFTA was a net loss for both Mexican and American workers. Trump was right to end it.
Most people don't know this, but Mexico has the world's 12th largest economy. Hardly a basket case.
The DNC/Soros/Mayorkas NGO grift lined the pockets of their political operatives with tax largesse--and as intended--created chaos while diverting attention from the actual serious problems facing citizens of our Republic. The perps continue to flout--at the expense of deserving Americans--actual immigration law. The American treasury continues to bleed and state and federal insiders continue to line their pockets.
Why? Because oikophobia sells. The surveillance machine and the managerial elite it serves used illegal immigration to destroy Europe, strip her people of civil liberties and bring down Western culture.
Why is American infrastructure in collapse? Why can't little Jane and Johnny read? How is it that American industrial cities are gutted? Because--as in Europe We the People (Black/White/Brown/Red/Yellow) are being colonized and replaced through mass forced illegal migration. The perps want uneducated disposable labor and access to all natural resources for personal gain and access without oversight or consequence. It's not something else.
Love yourself. Love your Republic. Depart the psyop and live.
No we don't. What we owe the world is to stop the ClownsInAmerica from doing regime change. If you think it was "The United States" that did those military interventions, then you are listening to too much garbage TV. Every single time that happens, it's not the US. It's the Deep State. It's the Rockefellers and their ilk using our Intelligence agencies to do their bidding. It's the neocons who make money on the transfers of power, who launder money through our AID.
This is why we are so happy about killing USAID. Whistleblowers have said that only around 2% of that money was used for AID. Most was bribes, laundering, and paying for corruption.
Frankly, your insults about the brave men who founded this country tells me you really need to move to another country, because you don't get it.
***Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?***
***Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.***
***They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.***
***What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.***
Read more:https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/what-happened-to-our-founding-fathers.4069419/
Mexico? Central America? Cuba? Venezuela? India? Iran? Come on Barry, try harder.
Your comment about America "continuing the slaveowning, rapist and racist traditions..." doesn't deserve a response. Renew your passport. It's a big world out there, and someone will value your perspective. Somewhere.
Iran in 1953 and 1979, two major coups. Perhaps this will bring you up to date on the hundreds of US military interventions including those in almost all the countries you questioned. You can call names and shut down discussion with your personal.prejudices but history cannot be shut down. Ignored but not shut down. https://archive.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-interventions.html
Iran in 1979? I don’t think so.
Most are not refugees. You are a DO? 😂
Barry...look into reductionist and motivated reasoning. Not everything is cartoon, my boy.
Always "our" fault.
Never yours.
I wouldn't mind so much if you kept it all to yourself, but you think sharing is virtuous.
Perhaps since we worked so hard failing those states, ruining their homes, their lives and leaving them desperate. @Il n’y point d’effet sans cause”.
C'est vrai, mais la raison en est l'echec de leurs propres gouvernments, pas nous.
Les poulets ont tendance à se percher dans leurs lits appropriés ?
Tuna fish pas?
Please remind the protesters that drug cartels made literally billions trafficking illegals here and are largely responsible for dumping the worst humans in our country. Why is it we never see protesters condemning the cartels?
Because the cartels are funding the protests. Just like the urban gangs are behind the defund the police movement. And Iran is paying for the whole “Free Palestine” bullshit. And upwardly mobile socialists looking to buy expensive houses drove “Black Lives Matter.”
Whenever I see an obviously inorganic “movement” I ask myself “who would benefit most if they got their way?”
Cynicism is my superpower.
So true. The cartel mafias have long taken over what is left of markets in Mexico. Now they’re here collecting a percentage on illegal laborers and rent, stash houses and cash equivalent Snap cards.
What distinguishes the cartel, or a syndicate, from a corrupt government? Would you perhaps agree that instead of talking about the left, the right, liberals, conservatives, progressives, socialists, or communists, we'd be much better off uniting against corruption?
Cartel cash and spook land ops have long been merged. Ask Gary Webb or Freeway Ricky Ross. (Is anti-racism the new communism?)
This was an outstanding idea by our Florida Governor. This is deterrence times 10, much like self protection, for example you don’t have to use the 44 magnum you carry, the punk just has to know you have it. I know that all of our great people at ICE have set up a hospitable holding facility, beds, blankets, porto-John’s, and food service. It is the image that the great Florida Attorney General has conveyed that is going to persuade a lot of illegal aliens to go back where they came from. Congratulations to all involved in this endeavor, this is what America has needed for a long time, politics s that say what they are going to do and then do it….
https://youtu.be/2y3J46DhoL0?si=aV7aPhFl-UvcyT-7
This is hardly a new idea. For decades Australians have sent illegal migrants to snake and mosquito infested island compounds, surrounded by saltwater crocs, to await adjudication of their asylum claims.
Lacking AC, it does not take long for migrants to request an immediate ride back to their country of origin. It saves Australians the cost, hassle and bad PR of mass deportations. The system has acted as a deterrent to illegal immigration for decades.
I do not recall anyone complaining about the situation, anywhere in the world, when the Aussies invented the idea. Now US protesters claim the US Holiday Inn version of the idea is evil?
The only accepted Dem outcome is everyone, who is not a violent criminal, be allowed to stay, with no regard to the permanent financial burdens placed on tax payers. Medicaid spending has increased 60% since 2019, per the WSJ. It must just be a coincidence that coincides with Dems purposefully dissolving the Southern border.
This is a non-starter. These people don't believe in borders or the concept of legal/illegal citizens. In fact, they think American citizens who oppose open borders should pack up and leave because 'colonialism'. If we can't even agree on first principles might as well have some fun. Hello: Alligator Alcatraz! 🐊
There is another option. Illegal immigrants can choose to self-deport by using the CBP Home Mobile App, which allows them to voluntarily notify the U.S. government of their intent to leave the country. This program offers incentives such as cost-free travel, a $1,000 exit bonus, and temporary de-prioritization from detention by ICE while they prepare to depart.
Didn't know that. Thanks.
saw a news article the other day, already more than a million have departed using the app
Just ignore the noise and keep going about your business. That is all these protestors are: annoying noise.
It is amazing that these groups whether the Dakota Access Pipeline to Alligator Alcatraz, all look exactly alike! Crappy signs, tons of trash, same ole tunes and just running on empty, since not one honk do you hear.
Seems most of these democrats do not have day jobs and can just travel around the country and protest. I would love to know who is providing the funding and organization required for these childish, never ending shit shows.
I think all of us understand that the problem is deeper than the protestors fronting the chaos. The Mayorkas/Soros NGO (Darien Gap) grift was international in scope. European culture/civil liberties have been destroyed and the Brussels perps behind the destruction are stepping up for the final throw down. As in the Netherlands seizure of American public lands is now on the table. Paid protestors? Consider a paid managerial elite and the surveillance apparatus (Palantir) that serves it. Mostly--as in the mass illegal importation of 20,000,000 people--paid for with American tax treasure. Meanwhile our Republic is in collapse and the economic looting continues.
never an air shot to see the total #s of attendees. Scope is important, Come on Ford
Drones are cheap as shit now too…
Exactly!
It'll be amusing to see whether Rs or Ds can fundraise the most off of this enterprise. Also would be interesting to see photos of the detention centers of the Obama/Biden regimes for comparison, before the 'news' media quacks too much about Oświęcim.
There are many points of view on this facility. But 8 days? Wow! We can’t schedule a planning session for a feasibility study in California in 8 days, no matter the goal or cause.
And Alligator Alcatraz merch? Oh you Florida Man!
You meant 8 yrs, right? Wait until the commandant takes over housing in NYC.
I wish someone would quantify the environmental impacts of the mass immigration into the U.S. during the Biden years. I'm thinking about millions traveling thousands of miles and about the Darien Gap and how these people were kept hydrated in transit, etc. ... Critics should blame immigrants for anything they don't like about Alligator Alcatraz. They are the ones belong behind bars and if ICE hasn't caught them they can self-deport. If reports about the center scare illegals into leaving the country, that would be a win all the way around.
There is always a minority percentage of malcontents, mentally ill, refugees, criminals, and anarchists in the general population. The vast majority of them are Democrat activists who do not contribute to a healthy country, but always have time to protest.
The protestors pretend to be doing something, and the media pretends to care.
I assume Alligator Alcatraz would provide them a place to send every high profile illegal immigrant while a judge blocks their deportation, and also makes headlines for everyone in Central and South America to see and start scared rumors about.