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Yuri Bezmenov's avatar

These are not protests, these are riots. Who gave the stand down order for Chicago police to abandon the federal agents? Why was this violent insurrectionist terrorist released in a jurisdiction with strict gun control laws? Leftist mayors, governors, and judges are going to get people killed if they keep going down the path of anarcho-tyranny.

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Jared Smith's avatar

Yuri! Long time no see, could have sworn we buried your ass in the nineties.

It is borderline unbelievable how willingly (primarily city and state) democrat pols are lining up to obstruct law enforcement. ICE has appeared heavy handed at times, but you see the riots, haranguing and taunting…I think that normal folks of any political persuasion understand that those agents have one of the most thankless, difficult and dangerous jobs in American right now…and are inclined to cut them some slack as they enforce the federal law of the USA. Looking back, Dems will think that this oppositional strategy was a bonafide political disaster.

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Outis's avatar

Also, for what it's worth, I'm in Chicago and literally no-one I talk to ever mentions these "protests". Like literally not once. Maybe people are cowed into silence or maybe, just maybe, nobody cares. Count me in the latter.

This is theater manufactured for the news cameras and the local pot-stirring pols.

Notably, yuppie-oriented newsletter/websites try to hype it up in between blurbs about restaurant reviews:

https://blockclubchicago.org/

It's a sad situation. One has to feel for people who are so desperate that they're willing to enter a country illegally. It cannot be an easy decision. I see lots of workers that I would willing to bet are not here legally. I see them working hard and it's hard not to sympathize with them.

But the situation got wildly out of control during the OBiden administration and is untenable. Letting all these people in was not an act of generosity, it was not humane and it was not done out of concern for anyone other than those who can take advantage of the cheap labor or those who want to pad the rolls of social services or precinct tallies and take advantage of putatively cheap votes.

It's a scam. A callous, heartless, cynical scam.

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Jared Smith's avatar

I understand the economic magnetism of

this country, particularly for those south of the border. I’m highly empathetic to those that just want to come here, be functioning members of society, and care for their families…that is the vast majority of these people. Good folks in dire straights looking for something better.

Biden did these people such a tremendous disservice. Even too much of a good thing is a disaster…so what did he think the results of unchecked irregular migration would be?

His tacit approval of allowing people to kick off their personal “America experiments” by breaking the law will go down as one of the greatest abdications of presidential duty in American politics. Trump is literally trying to put the shit back into the horse. And while he catches the lefts ire for it, just a moments thought will lead you to the root cause…his predecessor.

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Outis's avatar

First, I gotta admit you got a chuckle out of me with the "literally trying to put..." line. I'm stealing that one. :-) Thank you!

I'll go a step further than you though -- maybe you implied this -- but my feeling is that there was no real desire to help people on their personal American experiment.

I don't think they cared at all. The only goal, their only goal, was to disrupt US society, pad the voter rolls, import loads of inexpensive labor, and use these people for any other purpose for which they could be applied.

That the media clarion is so focused on the response to the infraction and not the infraction itself tells you everything.

I last voted Democrat in 2008 when I voted for Obama. I was verrrrry skeptical of a guy who came out of nowhere (a nonexistent legal career, a hollow academic career, no business or military experience, etc.) and who had just gotten a lucky break when he was elected to the Senate in 2004 despite these anti-qualifications.

That he turned around and announced two years later in early 2007 (after being sworn in in 2005) that he was running for President just seemed like a joke. I thought he was committing political suicide: the thought that a freshly-minted junior senator would declare himself ready for the Oval Office just seemed ludicrous.

Sadly, he proved my suspicions correct. It was all a con.

"Hope and change", my @$$. Well, I guess they weren't specific about the change part: "change for the worse" does fit though it of course contradicts most peoples' objectives as regards the "hope" part.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

Nurtured on the teat of The Weather Underground. Or should I say, chest fed by The Weather Underground.

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Tom's avatar
Oct 8Edited

All just noise and part of a long con psyop run on the American public by the "intelligence" community for their Wall Street masters and brethren (dating back to the Dulles brothers). Obama - like Clinton - were CIA assets, groomed for the job, and positioned as "left-leaning" or "progressive" Democrat alternatives to the likes of Bush, McCain, and others whose connections to the 3LAs were much more publicly known. I mean, most people are familiar with Obama's "betrayals" to those who voted for him, but it was Clinton (and Biden!) who gutted welfare, removed regulations on Wall Street speculators/gamblers (Clinton's primary allies in this were 3 Republican senators), and enacted the infamous crime bill (also a bi-partisan push). Hardly what I'd call "extreme leftists."

https://covertactionmagazine.com/2021/10/01/a-company-family-the-untold-history-of-obama-and-the-cia/

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Mattlongname's avatar

I'll blow your mind on Obama coming out nowhere.

Remember how Hillary kind of cheated to knock Bernie out of the 2016 Primary? Of course you do.

Remember how Hillary kind of cheated to knock Obama out of the 2008 Primary? Of course you dont.

Because Obama was always a puppet allowed to win by the establishment.

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angelO's avatar

"[Biden's] tacit approval of allowing people to kick off their personal “America experiments” by breaking the law will"

Tacit approval? No. The auto-pen administration was the instigator of, and accomplice to millions of counts of 1) illegal entry 2) fraudulent asylum claims 3) fraudulent procurement of govt benefits (incl. Medicaid) based on those asylum claims, 4) working without authorization, etc., etc.

The reason these people are acting so entitled is that they were invited here. Lots of promises were made, and many were kept, all at American taxpayers' expense.

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Tom's avatar
Oct 8Edited

Nevermind the decades of brutal sanctions on Venezuela first drummed up under Bush/Cheney/Abrams but later ratcheted to an entirely new level under Trump's first administration. Whatever Biden did at the border is one side of the coin (although I will note that the USACE/CBP RFPs for border fence construction were conceived under Obama and the solicitations (RFPs) began being posted to SAM.gov in the 2nd half of 2016 - under Obama/Biden). So the "Trump wall" fences were being built with money allocated while Obama was president (giving lie to another element of the MSM's portrayal - but gleefully taken credit for by Trump).

Regardless, the numbers of Venezuelan migrants surged exponentially as lagging indicators to Trump's draconian financial and other sanctions levied against the Maduro government and Venezuelan state and private businesses. This is the intended effect of such policies: While prosecuted under the guise of punishing "rogue regimes" for "human rights violations" (see: Rex Tillerson's uncomfortable education during his first few days on the job), the real intent is to immiserate the population by destroying the target country's economy for the poor and working classes, and hope that they rise up and overthrow or vote out the targeted politicians or "regime" and replace them with US-friendly or trans-national business friendly puppet governments. As far as Venezuela's economy, this worked like gangbusters and (while there was already a downturn due to world oil market conditions* earlier in the aughts) it caused completely unprecedented numbers of Venezuelans to flee the country and come to the United States (where Biden was excessively "welcoming" depending on which partisan side you're hearing from).

I mean, what did Trump think was going to happen? Anyone who is unfamiliar with the sanctions or doubts their severe effects can simply do some research - I recommend avoiding Google and even trying Yandex (the Russian equivalent) to bypass some of the propaganda and censorship. In any case, the numbers of Venezuelans, who became the most commonly encountered aliens at the southern border during the first few years of Biden's term, had previously been a tiny trickle. The amount simply exploded, and Trump's sanctions were directly to blame, although you'll rarely find much about it except in foreign "left" leaning media. And it wasn't just sanctions. Under Trump 1.0's watch multiple coup attempts of varying degrees of complexity and US direct involvement were attempted, one in which a literal nobody from Venezuela's right-wing expat community, Juan "Random" Guaido, was appointed their acting president from Washington D.C. with the help of the OAS (an American controlled Latin American puppet operation), and the violent reactions in Venezuela to the coup attempts were framed by both right- and left-leaning US media as the opposite (a lot like the Maidan in Ukraine), wherein the stories we were told about Maduro's "regime" attacking protestors replaced the truth, which was that the majority of violence was perpetrated by ostensibly US-backed small mobs and fought back against by Maduro's government and the majority of Venezuelans who participated in the protests, etc.

All of that said, Biden upped the "bounty" on Maduro's head and after Trump was re-elected he doubled it again, and is now threatening military actions against that sovereign nation, while simultaneously murdering alleged "drug traffickers" in international waters without a trace of due process (like Obama and Al Awlaki & his son) and with many holes in the official narrative. Long story short, the US - under successive administrations - but on steroids under Trump - has been doing everything one might do if one was actually attempting to CAUSE people to leave Latin American countries and attempt to enter the US illegally or otherwise.

* A note on the oil markets - There has been much informed speculation that during the Bush and Obama administrations, the US worked with the oil producing Gulf monarchies, primarily the Saudis, to artificially depress the price of oil with one aim being the destruction of Venezuela's primary source of national income - in part due to the difficult to refine nature of the type of oil produced there. Another aim, of course, was to hurt Russia and Evil Vlad Putler, but this is a topic for another conversation or debate.

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Tom's avatar
Oct 8Edited

Some footnotes:

Rex Tillerson schooled on the true meaning of "human rights" to the USG - https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/19/tillerson-state-human-rights-304118

Sanctions cause waves of migrants from Venezuela (which hardly sent any previously) - https://www.dailyherald.com/20240726/nation-and-world-politics/trump-white-house-was-warned-sanctions-on-venezuela-could-fuel-migration/

More on sanctions fueling illegal migration and asylum requests - https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sanctions-backfire-venezuela-mass-migration/5864438

More - https://fpif.org/the-u-s-economic-war-on-venezuela-has-fueled-the-migrant-crisis/

The "oil war" - https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/11/18/oil-war-us-saudi-crash-russia-iran-venezuela-2014/

Related, but more about Trump 1.0's war on Venezuela's economy and the over-leveraged US fracking industry - https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-shale-oil-plunges-trump-admin-takes-aim-venezuela/266710/

A Russian perspective - https://en.topwar.ru/169111-kak-ssha-i-saudovskaja-aravija-igrali-protiv-nas.html

A final note: Sorry, my subscription ends today, so I will be unable to debate any of this past about midnight. If anyone feels strongly enough about any of it, feel free to DM me on Substack.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

Too bad. You add interest to the comment section. Hale, and farewell.

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Jared Smith's avatar

Some great perspective here…I wouldn’t be surprised in the least to find that - in addition to sanctions, the US had colluded with gulf states to depress oil prices with the goal of creating financial turmoil in Venezuela.

And as far as the US creating economic conditions in C/SA that cause migration? I’m not sure how much thought is often given to tertiary and knock-on effects of sanctions, etc. Sad, but we can’t assume these policies are thought up with any pragmatism or forethought. It’s government, after all.

That being said, PDVSA has traditionally been very corrupt and subject to borderline criminal mismanagement and negligence. Don’t discount the “self own” when it comes to the dire financial straights that have forced Venezuelans from Venezuela. Mismanagement of natural resources is just one (inherited but continued) failure of the Maduro admin.

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Tom's avatar

Definitely a mis-managed economy, especially when they put all their eggs in the proverbial oil basket. They were asking for trouble. What I guess they didn't expect was the "help" they got from US administrations in pushing them over the cliff. Which I'd argue they were pretty stupid to dismiss.

See footnotes and excerpt below for some of the economic-migration connections.

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

Socking it to Russia, too, remember.

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Tom's avatar

From the Global Research article re: Trump sanctions eventually causing a wave of Venezuelan migrants and his first administration knew that would happen. Would they have done this to cripple the incoming Biden administration? I've seen much more unbelievable conspiratorial thinking here at Racket than that...

"As predicted, there is another attempted coup in Venezuela following President Nicolas Maduro’s victory over the US-Backed Presidential candidate, Edmundo González and opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado. Obviously, Gonzalez and his staunch supporter, Maria Corina Machado, an extremist who in the past asked the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu to help overthrow the Maduro government is the favorite of Washington. But no surprise, the Biden regime now recognizes Gonzalez as the winner.

However, the attempted coup and the mass migration problem of Venezuelan migrants reaching the US southern border was made in the USA. The US government played a significant role in the surge of Venezuelans entering the US illegally especially since the former US President, Donald Trump imposed the some of the harshest sanctions on Venezuela in efforts to force regime change.

An article from the mainstream media that is worth mentioning is from The Washington Post, ‘Trump White House was warned sanctions on Venezuela could fuel migration’ focuses on Venezuelan migration to the US borders. There were four reports according to some former and current U.S. government officials specifically on Trump sanctioning Venezuela although their economy was in a dire situation at the time,

“The Trump White House was warned that harsh sanctions on Venezuela could accelerate that country’s economic collapse and speed an exodus of millions of migrants to neighboring nations.”

The classified assessments were delivered by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) office of Intelligence and Analysis from 2017 to 2019. Despite The Washington Post accusing the Maduro government of “human rights abuses, extrajudicial killings and corruption by the regime of dictator Nicolás Maduro” (*notice how the mainstream media likes to use the word “regime” when describing an enemy of the United States). According to the Washington Post observation on the Maduro government:

Today, however, Maduro remains in power, and a surge in Venezuelan immigrants has emerged as a flash point in the U.S. presidential election. Though Venezuelan mass migration to the United States only began after President Biden took office, concern among Trump officials about the sanctions’ potential effects, including on migration, was more extensive than previously known, according to interviews with more than two dozen current and former U.S. officials.

“This is the point I made at the time: I said the sanctions were going to grind the Venezuelan economy into dust and have huge human consequences, one of which would be out-migration,” said Thomas Shannon, who served as undersecretary for political affairs at the State Department under President Donald Trump. “The sanctions clearly helped generate faster out-migration,” Shannon said. “And you knew it was only going to be a matter of time before these people decided to migrate north”

Today, it is estimated that more than seven million Venezuelans have left the country due to the severe economic situation that has developed since 2012. Neocons such as John Bolton blame the Venezuelan governments “mismanagement” not US sanctions:

Proponents, such as former top Trump aide John Bolton, defend the sanctions as a critically important, though unsuccessful, effort to force out Maduro, or at least limit the funds at his disposal. Venezuelans had already started fleeing before the sanctions were imposed, they stress, escaping an economic crisis rooted not in U.S. penalties but in mismanagement by Maduro and his predecessor, authoritarian leader Hugo Chávez

However, it was the crippling US sanctions imposed on Venezuela that caused the destruction of its economy:

But other former Trump officials, particularly at the State and Treasury departments, say it is clear U.S. sanctions aggravated an already dire situation with little clear upside. Venezuela’s economy contracted by a staggering 71 percent from 2012 to 2020 — the largest such drop in modern history for a country not at war — as the U.S. impeded its oil industry and curtailed access to international markets."

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

So many countries closer to Venezuela than the US to migrate to, but yes, US had a hand in Venezuela's problems. The government of Venezuela relied almost exclusively on oil revenue to keep the country running and is primarily the reason for collapse. And the US, by outsourcing everything from soup to nuts, literally, should see the folly and re-orient to Made in the USA, which Trump administration, with all it's faults, is trying to steer in that direction.

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Tom's avatar

"had a hand in" is about as drastic an understatement as I can imagine. It's like saying the US "has a hand" in Cuba's situation. Except Cuba only had casinos and sugar cane. No oil. Hmm....big coincidence, right?

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Gary Edwards's avatar

Can you expand on why TdA also came? Was that due to

1 TdA came in roughly proportional numbers to the population at large?

2 TdA came due to some other sanction related issue?

3 TdA came in a Maduro response to US aggression?

4 something else?

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

Easy pickings in the US.

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Orenv's avatar

Exactly. They are here to exploit. They were exploited on the way here, and they are still paying their debts to the ruthless people who controlled our border during the Biden administration, the cartels. They are also working for less money than other Americans (can you say exploited??). What happens when they get hurt on the job????????? See there....

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Matt L.'s avatar

My current belief is the southern border was flung open, combined with magnet draw of sanctuary communities, to tip the scales on census and resulting re-districting. Trump is working now to unwind this. And it’s messy and going to get messier. The 1850's in this country were also ripe with States flipping the middle finger to the Federal government. This is a power-game, and ICE & protesters of ICE are pawns amongst a larger battle.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

There is no doubt this is about the census. Why are illegals counted to the number, except for a political reason.

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Matt L.'s avatar

It’s completely unspoken about by the MSM. Which is one of many reasons why I don’t trust the Old Media, which Bari has now joined.

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

Working for cash. The cash economy in Sanctuary states is enormous.

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Orenv's avatar

Everyone works for cash. They work for less cash... If they get hurt, well, just reload with another one.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

I don’t feel sorry for our government that played a vital role in human trafficking. It makes me sick. And that is what it was. That is not humane.

This idealized view of the “migrants.” They are trafficking victims. Period.

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Outis's avatar

Agreed. It was human trafficking.

Additionally, the use of the term "migrant" is a recent construction.

In the past, people who came to a country were referred to as immigrants.

I think the goal here is to avoid the word "immigrant" as the term "illegal immigrant" was already established -- and accurately described people who had immigrated...illegally.

Instead, a new term was brought into common parlance: "migrant".

The problem here is that none of these people are "migrating". They're here and are not looking to go anywhere.

So the use of "migrant" is yet another passive-aggressive euphemism meant to disguise the underlying reality.

But, per your comment, what they are are tools. They're being used. Whatever suffering or loss of life in the process is of no importance to the forces that are using these people as pawns. Yes, the "open borders" con is nothing but a cover for a massive human trafficking operation that has victims on both sides of the equation: the people who are being brought in illegally and all the (typically lower income) people who are negatively impacted by this artificial "migration".

The documentation of all the NGOs and governmental agencies who set up shop just north of the Darien Gap is proof of the level of this corruption. This was a massive human trafficking operation.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

Years ago, when Rodney Davis was my congressman and when, I think, the Gang of Eight, was working on “comprehensive immigration reform,” and when congressmen used to have traveling pop-ups without security — I went to the tiny town near us to see Davis and express my opinion that our govt was an accomplice to human trafficking. Which of course, it has been. Bigly.

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Kath's avatar

"The specific term "migrant workers" emerged around the 1910s, with the first documented use of the noun form "migrant labour" appearing in the 1913 edition of the American Journal of Sociology. While the concept of people moving to find work, known as "migrant labor," existed much earlier, the phrase "migrant workers" gained traction in the early 20th century and became widely used to describe seasonal agricultural workers in the United States and other forms of labor migration."

You know, after that pesky civil war thing.

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Outis's avatar

Excellent point! The current use of the term "migrant" is arguably an abuse of the earlier, accurate term.

Right -- seasonal, migrant labor that would arrive, for instance, prior to a harvest, work the harvest and then (putatively) leave and (potentially) go to another location.

However, it's current use is inaccurate as it is not in any sort of "temporary" sense: the people referred to in the (mainstream) press are not "migrant labor" as they are not seasonal or transitory but are what would be more accurately called "immigrants" as the move is ostensibly permanent.

But you raise a good point -- it would seem that current usage is an abuse of earlier, accurate terminology!

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George Q Tyrebyter's avatar

Fuck that mangy BS about "trying to put food on their families". All of the countries of origin created this situation by failure to control population growth. Every country in CA save 1 has seen 4x pop increase since 1970. The only one that has not, Costa Rica, sends no migrants.

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Jared Smith's avatar

I don’t disagree that economic policy in those countries has created a surplus of people and a deficit of opportunity….and the US has exacerbated the problem in countless ways.

That doesn’t change the individual plight of the south/central American people that have essentially been grist for the grift mill of despots and corrupt politicians.

Not their fault. I abhor human suffering everywhere and anywhere…but I also don’t feel a responsibility to solve all the world’s problems. Neither did the Biden administration, they just saw political pawns available for import

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Outis's avatar

Interesting -- more stats to look into. That's an angle I had not heard and which both explains the impetus and arguably also reduces sympathy for the associated governments.

And...to your point: why is it that we never hear about how rapidly the US population has increased since the mid-1980s?

I still have an advertisement from a 1984 (maybe early 1985?) advertisement from Scientific American. It was to the effect of, "Of the 235 million people in America, only a fraction can use a computer":

http://www.macmothership.com/gallery/gallery3.html

So the US population (340 million as of 2024 according to Google) has increased by roughly 45% in the last 40 years?

Has the number of jobs increased commensurately?

Gee....what with the rise of "automation", methinks not.

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George Q Tyrebyter's avatar

The US pop has probably increased by 45%. The population of Guatamala has increased by 350% (5M to 18M), of Nicaragua about the same (2.5M to 6.5M), CR also 350% (2M to 5M). So maybe I'm off a little. But pop increase is very important in the migration pressure.

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Outis's avatar

Apologies if I wasn't clear.

Even 45% is substantial (and over 40 years to boot).

But numbers like you quote are literally...dangerous.

Anyone familiar with mathematics knows that "exponential growth" is unstable.

While it's great that mortality has been reduced, for governments to allow or promote their population to grow as you describe is grossly irresponsible. Given that their economies have not kept pace, this is nothing but a recipe for disaster. A foreign disaster that was used by the OBiden administration to weaken the US.

I'm not anti-immigration. My own family came here roughly 125 years ago. I love this country. That being said, immigration has never been, either in intent or in practice, a free-for-all for any successful civilization. This particular free-for-all was created by the OBiden administration for what I can only see as sinister and callous goals.

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Noam Deplume, Jr. (look,at,me)'s avatar

There's one guy who controls birth control in Latin America and his name begins with P.

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Jim's avatar

But they have all slowed down now - the population boom is over. How do welfare states, based upon ever increasing populations - not to mention investment based "growth" strategies - deal with fewer people next year than the year before.

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George Q Tyrebyter's avatar

That's a complete fallacy. There is no place on earth where there will be fewer people next year than now, save Gaza. What is slowing is the rate of growth. The growth itself has not slowed or gone negative. Maybe in Japan, maybe.

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Jim's avatar

You should get out more - China is probably approaching 1.1 billion - down 200 million. Eastern Europe's population is cratering. The United Nations world population "clock" is way off. We have all read about Italy and Germany.

Replacement rate is negative now.

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Kath's avatar

"Major countries are experiencing below-replacement fertility rates (2.1 births per woman), leading to potential population aging and decline, with specific examples including China (1.01), the U.S. (1.6), South Korea (under 1.0), and Italy (1.2). The 2.1 rate is a benchmark for stable populations; higher rates are needed in countries with higher mortality, while lower rates in developed nations contribute to shrinking workforces and increased elderly populations."

There's about to be a big die off of boomers in the states -- add that to the 1.6 and Jim is quite right.

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Ministryofbullshit's avatar

Germany

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

To assume that these well-fed young men and women are "so desperate that they're wiling to enter a country illegally" is naive. People who have, or have family members with critical illness who aren't getting care from their country of origin are desperate and are aware that they will receive it in sanctuary states. Other people migrate because they want to take advantage of the benefits they will receive in the US. Free housing, free food, free healthcare, free schools and a large community of fellows who speak their language and interpreters and translators to assist them. They get paid cash in hand for labor and a state ID.

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Outis's avatar

The benefits abuse you speak of is likely true.

Still, I would argue, or maybe "grant to the illegals", that it still must be a serious decision to make: whether to go to get benefits or for medical care or whatever.

The people I least sympathize with are the better-off ones who were apparently sufficiently well off enough to be able to afford to make the trip. And there was a nontrivial number of such. I recall ABC (yes, even ABC) brought a camera crew to one well-known wide-open gap in the fencing and were filming Chinese nationals simply walking through the fence. The reporter talked to several who, even in limited English, articulated they were "coming to America".

It is most definitely the case that anyone who thinks that this was all "organic" is much more (or worse) than just "naive" (viz. the built-out infrastructure just north of the Darien Gap provided by NGOs, foreign governments, etc.).

This was a planned invasion. There's really no other way to describe it.

Drawing comparisons with earlier stages in this country is disingenuous at best. This was an op from top to bottom whose goal was to restructure the US and by doing so, Western Civilization (cf. what's going on in Europe) and the world.

A "New World Order", forsooth.

Postscript: I am genuinely puzzled by claims that the UK suffers from illegal immigration. According to Google's AI response, the US has a continental border just shy of 6,000 miles:

"The length of the United States' continental international land border is approximately 5,920 miles, combining the northern U.S.-Canada border (excluding Alaska) and the U.S.-Mexico border. The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) states the northern border of the contiguous U.S. is 3,987 miles and the U.S.-Mexico border is 1,933 miles."

The UK consists of two islands. How difficult is "border patrol" in the UK? Any problem with illegal immigration in the UK is a construct, not anything natural or organic.

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ELKFLA's avatar

The people I feel sorry for are those who have followed the law and are waiting to enter the country legally, only to have to stand by while others walk across the border or overstay their visas and are allowed to stay. Where is the justice for these people?

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Outis's avatar

Gee. Right. What about all the people who follow the rules?

Suckers, I guess.

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Gary Edwards's avatar

As a Chicagoaan, do you think this could turn the state or city Republican?

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

Entirely possible, but with 50 billion dollar man as the gov, unlikely.

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Outis's avatar

I am not black but know lots of blacks and hispanics. Voting blocs which the Democrat party has relied on may not be so reliable in the future. It is unclear.

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Beth's avatar

Voter ID is a variable in that question.

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Big Yus's avatar

If you look at the Chicago subreddit, you'd get the impression that 99% of the city's population is completely in favor of razing ICE (and everything it stands for) to the ground. And no dissenting voices are tolerated in that sub. Does anyone know if there's another, more common-sense subreddit?

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

Yes because Reddit bans anyone who doesn't follow their so far left agenda that the ball is out of the park and smashing through a plate glass window.

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Outis's avatar

Not a single person I have spoken with has expressed any concern about ICE's actions. Not one.

The Reddit thread -- which I had not even heard of prior to reading your post -- sounds like it's a magnet for college students (who of course know nothing, and I say that as a former college student who was kinda "radicalish") and the "protest set".

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

The mods ban anyone who doesn't veer L off the highway or else the people on Reddit vote them down to oblivion in a matter of minutes. Reddit is great for some subs but generally speaking it is Main Stream Dems Media on High Dose Steroids.

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Noam Deplume, Jr. (look,at,me)'s avatar

Cheap labor always seems to come at a price for the civilization. The Romans allowed Huns in the army.

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Outis's avatar

Well, right. That was at the end of the empire and basically set the stage for its collapse.

What occurred over the last four years in the previous administration was no measure based on sensible requirements of the labor force.

It was a wholesale attack on the foundation of the society.

There is no stable country that allows unfettered entry into its society. It's a recipe for disaster.

The primary goal, such as I can tell, was to change the demographics, create a new class of "dependents" who would not be able to survive without social services -- why allow huge numbers of unskilled, uneducated people into the country when the need for large numbers of unskilled workers is not increasing?

The amount of automation and robotics in business is going to massively increase in the near future. This will impact everything, including agriculture. There are already agricultural tools (laser equipped trailers) that can identify and zap weeds but leave the crop/commercial plant untouched.

All talk about "this is a nation of immigrants" and "what about the chinese/irish/italian/poor of yesteryear" is a smoke screen. A hoax. It's not what's going on now.

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Cheryl Knapp's avatar

It is about votes, districts, numbers and has nothing to do with the constituent needs. Politicians primary objective is to get voted back into offices, period.

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Noam Deplume, Jr. (look,at,me)'s avatar

Agreed on all points. Cheap labor competes with automation. Some argue that the Black Death that ravaged Europe both increased the freedoms and cost of workers and encouraged labor saving mechanization. Complicating the issue in America is the 14th Amendment which gives citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil. Rome did not offer this right to the children of their slaves.

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Patricia Gauthier's avatar

Well, if you have been following it, Antifa led protests in various cities have included throwing bricks at agents, tossing fiery items into the Ice agents circle, assaults, spitting at them. heavy screaming and resisting arrests, having to be subdued by more than one agent, kicking, destroying property, etc. What can we expect when the Democrat candidate for Attorney General of VA says he would put 2 bullets into his opponent's head, then kill his kids and the Democrat leaders and candidates don't blink an eye? They think his apology is sufficient. This is the culture war we're living in.

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A.'s avatar

Must be a Leftist Manual for Assault which they are following. I just watched a Rebel News clip of a situation in Canada where "Native Protesters" used the same tactics against academic Frances Widdowson, for speaking her truths about the "Aboriginal Industry".

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JimInNashville's avatar

Widdowson is a Canadian national treasure.

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A.'s avatar
Oct 8Edited

She is tiny older woman, all of 90 lbs., and yet she stood her ground against those "brave warriors" screaming in her face, and spitting on her.

I have followed her work over the years.

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Jared Smith's avatar

It’s wild that AG thinks that he’s still fit to be a law enforcement official

I have a hard time understanding that guys viability as a candidate at this point

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Noam Deplume, Jr. (look,at,me)'s avatar

"You say you want an insurrection, we-el you know, we'd all love to see the proof." - Not John Lennon

Depicting the hooliganism of street fighting men as an insurrection triggers extraordinary Executive powers. However, "One swallow does not a summer make." - Aristotle

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DaveL's avatar

Democrats did something similar in 1861.

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Sky's avatar

Also in Little Rock in 1954. I have 24 more examples.

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Jim Croft's avatar

the Ads for Border PATROL HIGHLIGHT A $50,OOO SIGN ON BONUS

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

= 1 Cava bag

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VideoSavant's avatar

That is the plan.

They want their George Floyd immigration totem.

Credit due for maintaining a consistent criminal beatification theme.

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ELKFLA's avatar

With the Gaza situation winding down, the professional anarchists need another cause to subvert so they can keep on "fighting the man/woman/dual spirit entity" and destroy stuff. I don't think illegal immigration is going to be as useful a cause for them.

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Sheila Dean's avatar

Who do you think, 'Yuri'?

An LA Kings/United Front triad proxy at the Mayors office. If it actually matters, you would think the DOJ can open a corruption probe at the Chicago City government.

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Sky's avatar

Oh c'mon. Chicago has NEVER had a corruption problem

;)

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A.'s avatar
Oct 7Edited

"Yuri" just uses other popular sites and gullible upvoters to get his attention for the day. So you will think of him as an expert and subscribe to his site. Ka-Ching..$$$. He races to the top spot, makes some obvious comment that anyone could have made, and the waits for the 100 or so upvotes to roll in. He will go to the top place, and because he uses a comment that cannot be disagreed with....he gets the votes and the attention. It is never a comment worth very much, but the scam behind it makes it work.

If it was posted by Jane Smith halfway down the forum, it would get 0-2 votes.

It's an old con-artist tactic. Robert Cialdini goes into the Psychology of it. How people can be duped by the Yuris of the world. He's just a used car salesman selling a Substack "freedom fighting" Influencer site instead.

And you are.....being duped. About 100 of you today.

I wish so many commenters here would not fall for this, since I would like to respect you! At least 100 here are this gullible, EVERY TIME "Yuri Bezmenov" pulls his stunts on you.

When my subscription runs out, I am finding another Substack. I need thinking people. If "Yuri Bezmenov" can dupe you like this, imagine what the lefties can do.

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Rick Olivier's avatar

Take a nap or up your game here. Newbie, huh?

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A.'s avatar
Oct 8Edited

You mustn't be too swift, Rick. I have read and commented on Racket News over several years. You have even replied to me several times yourself.

You sound like MG here. Your rock star Yuri has been outed in one of his tricks, and the breaking of your delusions over him is upsetting you. Your god has failed you.

You need to grow up and face the reality that Substack is just a digital writing platform where tenants rent space, for a cut of their proceeds. No credentials required. Then they post whatever they wish. There is no editor or board for oversight. Lots of the Subtack hosts use this as a lucrative influencer site. They offer whatever the punters will lap up, and pay for.

Sheesh! You hadn't figured this out yet? Substack is not Polyanna Land. There are at least as many scammers likely to be using this platform as there are honest folk.

Now open your eyes! Or were you blitzed-out on something when you wrote that comment?

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A.'s avatar

These snitty comments from MG and Rick also tell me that they want to shun/smear/punish me because I have broken ranks with the groupthink in this commenter forum. Where everyone is supposed to love "Yuri" because he makes certain he shows up regularly in the top spot where he can collect all those upvotes and present himself as a god.

PT Barnum was right. There's a sucker born every minute. How incredibly easy it is to bamboozle them. MG and Rick are a case in point.

I have encountered this before in Substack forums. Where the regulars will pounce on anyone not maintaining the usual groupthink. It is a mob attack more reminiscent of the WOKE-folk, but you might also see it in the non-WOKE who have given up their individualism for a group identity.....and then an actual individual comes along with a differing opinion. The claws come out!

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Rick Olivier's avatar

Please provide evidence that Yuri is grandstanding. I'm open to persuasion but you appear to have a vendetta.

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MG's avatar

You have a personal vendetta against him, I wonder why.

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A.'s avatar

You must be one of the chronic "Yuri" upvoters....😁 I caught you!

Oh don't be silly, MG. I expected better of you than this. Put on your thinking cap, for goodness' sake!. This comment of yours was no better than the WOKE offer.

You need to smarten-up today. I wonder whether you are duped into buying dodgy timeshares in Florida too.

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A.'s avatar

I wrote a paper once upon a time on the use and abuse of the reward centres in the human brain. Which is what "bread and circuses" is all about. If a scammer targets your rewards systems -- through using entertainment for instance -- the gullible and the sheep amongst us are going to fall.

All those entertaining videos.... All those cutesy memes..... All those "freedom-fighter" themes..... It really pulls them in. And a "host" such as this laughs all the way to the bank. It's the Influencer world.

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DarkSkyBest's avatar

Also, if you are “migrating,” you should not be expected to assimilate, because you will be leaving when the weather changes, no?

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Patricia Gauthier's avatar

The police chief.

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flyoverdriver's avatar

I appreciate Racket’s/Ford’s ability to write a short description of these events akin to an old school wire service report. It lays out both sides’ position clearly, starting with the first event in the timeline (alleged ambush of agents by a convoy) and tracing through what the defendant and law enforcement alleged happened.

Just this morning, I read the WSJ’s account of this same event. It is pathetic. There are paragraphs upon paragraphs of statements from activists that ignore all the facts law enforcement allege, and turn up the emotional temperature in a way that would induce the uninformed reader’s rage against the administration. Buried deep in the article, far beyond where most would stop reading, is the admission that there may have been some precipitating event by the driver and accomplices.

Millions of Americans are being propagandized by news sources like never before. Thank you for just getting back to the basics here. It’s so refreshing.

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Greg Collard's avatar

That is so nice. Thank you for taking the time to write that. It really means a lot.

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flyoverdriver's avatar

Happy to! You all deserve the plaudits. I was feeling like I had made myself into an antagonist after needling Matt over some of his Charlie Kirk reflections, so it’s nice to cleanse that feeling.

All of what I comment here—critique and praise alike—comes from a place of tremendous respect for what you all are doing at Racket. I just wish there was more you/all of us could do to break through to those inside their seemingly impermeable partisan news/epistemic bubbles. That’s why I’ve occasionally beat the drum to have Matt get out and start debating legacy media people (and legacy-adjacent people like Gladwell) face to face more often. You all do journalism right, and more people should see its stark contrast with the “Hate Inc” model.

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Noam Deplume, Jr. (look,at,me)'s avatar

News writing in the way of the inverted pyramid - big news on top - has been replaced with the Internet strip tease writing style, long, barely relevant filler punctuated with ads that may or may not get to the bait in the click.

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flyoverdriver's avatar

It’s depressing. Good journalism is going the way of good literature.

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Matt L.'s avatar

Greg, you did a terrific job of just showing the situation without pressing finger on any scale. Bravo to you sir.

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Greg Collard's avatar

Thanks, Matt!

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Matt L.'s avatar

Greg, are you familiar with Wesley Winter in the UK? He's a citizen journalist who's been covering the Populist protests (which include immigration backlash) on the ground there and across EU for last several years.

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Greg Collard's avatar

I know of him but I’m not very familiar with him.

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Mary Orlowski McFerson's avatar

Thank you for your hard and honest work, Greg!

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Jrod's avatar

Your hair must be very purple to get that close to the action. ;-)

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DaveL's avatar

It’s why we have a free press. No one ever said a free press would be impartial, just that it isn’t run by the government.

Now the fact CIA and FBI agents go to work in the “free” press, that’s disturbing.

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flyoverdriver's avatar

Sure, and I think informed citizens have a responsibility to shout from the rooftops how abjectly awful and mendacious what passes for reputable media are in the 2020s.

Additionally, the Twitter Files followed by the Meta/Google admissions of the last weeks: it was far more than “former” agents going to work for legacy media outlets. This was a vast bureaucratic effort to swallow up digital media in government/IC control. I think there is much that could still be revealed on this front. But what we know already is appalling and historically unprecedented (and has nary more than a passing mention in these allegedly reputable media outlets, by the way).

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SimulationCommander's avatar

Many of us decided to do just that, throwing our hat into the industry and screaming into the void.

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Sky's avatar

Well said

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Jennie Corsi's avatar

So, if the agents aren’t retired or are retired, yet still promoting a government narrative, dishonest or not, is that still a free press according to the above definition, ie, ‘not run by the government’?

What of the abject disaster that has become NPR, a known government-funded news source that is probably the most lost in terms of impartiality, though it has long been touted as so neutral that it achieves a perpetual state of bland, the beige of news media?

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MG's avatar

Giving funding back to NPR is one of the Dem's demands to end the shutdown. That's how badly they want a media outlet at their beck and call.

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DaveL's avatar

I'd say that is not a free press, and NPR always seemed like an iffy proposition, even though it's mostly supported by listeners and NGOs (Yes, but where do the NGOs get a lot of their funding?)

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Mary M's avatar

A free press. Well, it is not shown in action by The Free Press, which Matt actively promotes. TFP is not free, nor transparent and is bought by the Israel lobby. Which now controls CBS via billionaire dollars. Thank God they have Matt to go to bat for them. The CBS meal ticket awaits.

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Orenv's avatar

The free press has always been an OP run by spooks. Too much money on the line to ignore.

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

Also good is Marcy Wheeler over at emptywheel. Ms. Wheeler is unashamedly partisan, but she also digs into the facts in a way very few journalists do nowadays. https://www.emptywheel.net/2025/10/07/the-brutal-cbp-assault-tied-to-the-marimar-martinez-shooting/

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Larry's avatar

That's such a shame about WSJ. I worked there, And while the reporters were liberal, and the opinion pages conservative, the reporters would never dream of being one-sided in an article because the editors would have their heads. Everything had to be down the middle. You see it at the New York Post and now at the journal, they're saving money using AI and firing copy editors and editors and no one is proofing reporters work. What a shame

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A.'s avatar
Oct 7Edited

I find it very odd that full-grown adults believe that just because writing is posted on Substack, it must be true.

Anyone can sign up for Substack. It's just a platform. Scammers and fraud artists and liars included. I have met quite a few of them on Substack over the years. What makes you think there is some kind of honesty-machine operating here which weeds out the scamming types? Substack is about people who want to turn writing into money. Nothing wrong with that....except for the fact that anyone can write anything, true or not. But the punters fall for all of it, just as they did for decades on MSM. No difference.

There are no editors or board providing oversight on Substack. Just the Wild West. There are over 20,000 people who have signed up by now No credentials required. Just open your page and go. It's a dream-machine for those who are morally challenged.

Not that everyone is out to scam you. But the point is....that you do not know! The scammers keep you either starry-eyed or guessing.

I find it hilarious how many otherwise sensible adults think that writing posted on Substack by a Substack tenant....is necessarily honest and reliable and all-round wonderful.

Tells me something about human Psychology and how dupe-able people can be when they want. Too funny!

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flyoverdriver's avatar

My comment was about Racket and Matt’s editorial/content team, whom I have read and learned to trust over the course of five plus years, not Substack. So your point is completely spurious and irrelevant to my comment.

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A.'s avatar
Oct 7Edited

No....I can see that you just have your projections attached to your specific celebrity gods, and no one is going to be able to enlighten you. Like teenage girls and their latest rockstar crush. This is a regular feature on Substack......the groupie phenomenon. I would bet that it is the power which keeps over 50% of the subscribers here, cooing.

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flyoverdriver's avatar

So what is your criticism of Racket’s reporting? You still haven’t made one. Just made irrelevant and ad hominem attacks.

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A.'s avatar

I am afraid you sound like a broken record. This is what they all say when they are miffed because someone did not agree with them. There is zero substance to these comments of yours.

Racket does reasonable reporting. But they stop there. Like most Substack journalists. There is little or no analysis of any worthwhile variety. Matt is an extroverted action man (which is necessary in particular circumstances). However, I do not see him as the deep insightful type who could give you a Jungian analysis on what is going on in the world to cause this mass insanity. In other words, he reports only what his eyes and ears see and hear. Which is the surface of any issue. He could never tell you why any of it was happening, or what the deeper answers are.

I need a little more, myself, than the basic who/what/where/why/how of general journalism. It is not enough. Especially not in 2025. By this point general journalism gets us nowhere.

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flyoverdriver's avatar

So your criticism of Matt is that he is a journalist?

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448's avatar

Getting info from a single source is the biggest issue. I read around the spectrum. As for credibility, Matt already had that and continues to take L’s and admit when he messes up while striving to do actual investigative journalism while showing his work as best he can. He and I would not agree on many issues but I have discerned over years of reading his work that he calls balls and strikes fairly if you understand my baseball metaphor. The biggest issue with humans by and large and Americans in particular is they love to have their biases confirmed. To avoid this the individual must read around the spectrum. I read it all from hard left to hard right and compare and contrast the coverage. I am also voracious about this finding as many sources as possible for info. Complaining about all the writers lacking credentials on Sub Stack is silly. This is the new reality. Some of these voices may be malign actors spreading disinfo. The intelligent reader will inoculate themselves against those sources by reading so many others and sorting through the nonsense. I understand that most people will find this onerous and time consuming. They can watch CNN/Fox/MSNBC etc and be blissfully ignorant of their lack of knowledge and factual info. No one said being an informed citizen would be easy…

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A.'s avatar
Oct 9Edited

448, you're preaching to the converted. Why do you assume I use a narrow range of sources? Quite the opposite, actually.

I had probably read more by senior high school than you have in a lifetime. I read very, very widely and always have. At least a book per week, several academic papers, and about a dozen fairly reliable internet sites and newspapers. You would have real trouble keeping up with me.

So that's not a problem. I am well-educated too.....before the WOKE blight took out the universities. So I have authentic education.

Credentials? I prefer that I know someone has covered the necessary material before they spout off, like "Yuri" of El Gato or any number of the popular Substack types who make it up as they go along. They are really just influencers or low-level entertainers.

It really does matter whether they actually know the material and the possibilities inherent in a situation. They have to be aware that particular fields or concepts exist, and are relevant. Which is probably why too many Substack journalists can never go any farther than just reporting the bare facts of the events.

This is not about integrity. You mis-read that. You are just not grasping the point here. Which is that we have enough basic reporting of the who/what/where issues. We need analysis of WHY these issues are happening. Which requires a background in other fields.

My issue is that journalism itself is pretty basic. It is the rare journalist who can and does accurately analyze the situation he is reporting.

And right now, seeing the state of the Western world, what we need is a great deal of accurate analysis. The basic reporting is just that -- BASIC. It's like saying that the school nurse who can hand out aspirin and tell you to lie down ....is at the same level as a brain surgeon.

I think you have just been bamboozled by the Substack world. The novelty will grow old soon, and then you might SEE.

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448's avatar
Oct 10Edited

I actually didn’t assume shit about you other than your original comment was a shitty dig against folks who subscribe to content creators on Substack. I figured I would educate you on the way some people approach information sources. You apparently want someone to tell you want to think about information. I can do that myself, without help.

Now, your post in response was fucking hilarious. No body on the internet gives a single fuck about your big ego and all of your made up accomplishments. In summary go fuck yourself. Cheers!

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John Bibish's avatar

Your comments are persuasive but I'm already persuaded. Sceptic that I am I suspect it might take as long to get the complete story as it took for the first impeachment. However, I would ask the respondent a question I don't know the answer. If news sources are becoming yesterday's news as many suggest do the alternative sources equally guilty of propaganda? Thank you.

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Patricia Russell's avatar

El Gato Malo was just talking about this in a substack piece yesterday - these are quotes from his essay:

"it’s all the simple, well worn playbook of “force your enemy into an impossible choice and then make the story about how they react.”

"they call it “putting your target in a decision dilemma.”

"the same people who flooded the country with illegal intruders to shift the census, electoral college, congressional seat counts, and to taint voter rolls (often using tax dollars to do it) always knew that the day might come when people got fed up and sought to reverse this.

they also know how incredibly difficult this would be, the draconian actions it would require, and how bad this could be made to look.

they were already prebunking this issue before the election. “if the bad guys win, they will round you up and put you in boxcars! it will be fascism! genocide! they will not follow the law!”

lost in this and absent from the barrage of talking points is the lawlessness, manipulation, and outright aggression ingrained in flooding communities with these groups and then leaving them protected by law and process but unbound by restrictions or standards.

the manner in which they were brought in was wildly illegal, and now the selfsame perps demand law be applied.

the whole point is to be so provocative and violent that only violence can serve to resist or constrain it, then they call you violent.

what just happened in Chicago is a prime example."

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-horns-of-the-ice-dilemma

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Outis's avatar

Absolutely. The sheer scale implies that there will be "edge cases" that won't look good.

Given the volume, the number of "edge cases" is probably going to be uncomfortably large.

It was an unbelievably callous action on the part of the OBiden administration. The executive branch is responsible for the execution of the laws passed by Congress. The level of dereliction was so great as to border on traitorous. This was not an accident, this was a cynical, heartless attempt to exploit the poor and dispossessed of other countries while simultaneously undermining the well-being of the poor already in this country.

But, yes, to your point, it's easy to open the gates and let them in -- getting them returned is vastly, prohibitively more complicated and difficult.

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Ministryofbullshit's avatar

It didn’t border on treason, it was treason.

We can have rule of law, passed by a democratically elected congress, or anarchy. Anarchy is always (and always will be) gang rule.

These are paramilitary gangs in the sanctuary cities/states

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

Just a little reminder: "Barack Obama was famously labeled “deporter in chief” by critics in the immigrant-rights community" https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not

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Sky's avatar

Trump is way behind in the numbers there as well

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Orenv's avatar

You only hear about the edge cases....

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SimulationCommander's avatar

I don't know how many times I've heard "THEY'RE DEPORTING US CITIZENS", but then EVERY SINGLE TIME I look into it, it's a parent being deported and taking their children. (If those children were left in the US, then Trump would be BREAKING UP FAMILIES, so you can't really win.)

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Jrod's avatar

el gato is my favorite kitty! everybody should do themselves a favor and subscribe if you have not already. no caps necessary.

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Heidi Kulcheski's avatar

I would also hesitate to call it activism, it's terrorism, or terrorism-lite if you prefer.

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Ministryofbullshit's avatar

It’s the communist revolution from within.

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Chilblain Edward Olmos's avatar

Color revolution 101

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MH's avatar

It's straight up political violence. I think too many Americans see every protest as "peaceful". Yeah, no.

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DaveL's avatar

Mostly peaceful…

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MH's avatar

Lol, oh yeah, I forgot the "mostly" part

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Art's avatar

Some of it is violence, but some of it is just chaos. Create enough chaos, disorder, extreme levels of noise, and too many visual cues for any human to process, and eventually some errors in perception and judgement become inevitable. Throw in real threats to the safety of law enforcement and there will be people injured and killed by mistake.

More than anything else the politicians and demagogues stirring the pot with imprudent rhetoric will have blood on their hands. These blue state and city politicians should be taking significant measures to create safety zones so that ICE has a clear zone around federal facilities and unobstructed access to those facilities. Instead they are egging on the unhinged activists and failing to keep order in their jurisdictions. For goodness sake, this is not going to end well and Pritzger, Newsom, and the nitwit pols in Oregon really need to quit grandstanding right now.

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Chilblain Edward Olmos's avatar

🛎️🔨

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michael Griffin's avatar

Everyone of those "protesters: who are throwing things at law enforcement vehicle as committing a crime. The fact that this is allowed to happen by Mayor Johnson and the CPD is inexcusable

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DaveL's avatar

They had an interesting article in WSJ recently about Jackson, MS. The Capitol police have expanded their jurisdiction, because downtown was unbearable. Then the usual “community leaders” loudly protested, citing police brutality or whatever. I suppose the real reason for their protest is it encroaches on their grift.

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steven t koenig's avatar

ICE protestors wearing Free Palestine shirts? Do you get double pay for that?

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Indecisive decider's avatar

If you look closely, they're re-using the 'Bush with a hitler mustache' signage. Recycling!

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Sky's avatar

Good noticing! Well, you know the left is always champion recycling as saving the world!

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Daniel Lee's avatar

She had a concealed carry permit? In Chicago? In Illinois? These are two of the most stringently gun controlling jurisdictions in the country in terms of handgun permits. You have to have a state permission card to buy AMMUNITION, much less carry a gun. I very much doubt that she had any such thing.

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Doge's avatar

I was wondering the same thing. Legal carrying (concealed or not) in Chicago is not a thing, as far as I know.

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

https://ccspdtraining.com/ccw-chicago/ ". . .Yes, you can conceal carry in Chicago, but there are specific rules and restrictions to follow. While Illinois has a statewide concealed carry law, certain locations in Chicago are off-limits for carrying a firearm, even with a valid permit. These include government buildings, schools, public transportation, and bars where alcohol sales make up more than 50% of revenue. Additionally, private businesses and property owners can prohibit firearms by posting proper signage. . ."

See also https://isp.illinois.gov/Foid/Ccl , https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/il-gun-laws/ and https://web.archive.org/web/20250815034310/https://concealedcarryofillinois.com/blog/getting-your-il-concealed-carry-permit ". . .After decades of efforts from the NRA and other organizations, as well as countless individuals, residents will now be able to obtain their long-awaited concealed carry permit in Illinois. This has come to the delight of millions of registered gun owners throughout the state, as well as the Chicago area. . ."

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Outis's avatar

Another question is why would someone go to a protest knowing that tensions will be high and engage with and harass law enforcement while carrying a gun, licensed or otherwise?

The poor judgement in bringing a gun to a protest is arguably grounds for the revocation of that permit.

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Han's avatar

hmm that sort of argument was made about Kyle Rittenhouse event, and it was struck down rather strongly not only by courts and legal experts but by public opinion in high numbers.

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Outis's avatar

Good point. In Rittenhouse's case, as I understand, he and others were present due to the lack of police protection (possibly because the police were overwhelmed). Also, Rittenhouse wasn't opposing the authorities but putatively opposing the people who were opposing the authorities.

I should have been more precise: if you're going to protest to the point of directly confronting the police, be careful about bringing weapons.

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Han's avatar

I see what you mean, Kyle was defending property and all, not ramming into law officers.

If I recall the police were standing around letting the city burn. But maybe that was the dozens of other cities where that was done.

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Ashe's avatar

Want he protecting private property during a riot?

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Chilblain Edward Olmos's avatar

The poor judgment of going to a futile protest whatsoever…

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Outis's avatar

It's all for the show. You can probably safely bet that none of these participants could provide a substantive argument for why immigration law should not be enforced. But no-one at these "protests" [sic] is thinking in these terms. It's all emotion, hysteria, get-out-your-acoustic-guitar-and-tambourine bs combined with rabble-rousing that's likely sponsored and/or coordinated.

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Chilblain Edward Olmos's avatar

Aye. It’s performative narcissism full stop.

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

In this particular context, it was more of a procession than a protest: ". . .The officers were acting as a “security detail” and were “followed by a convoy of civilian vehicles,” including a silver Nissan Rogue driven by Martinez and a black GMC Envoy driven by Ruiz, according to the complaint. . ." https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/10/06/attorney-woman-shot-ice-brighton-park-release/

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Outis's avatar

Thank you for that link. Interesting

From that article: "Hennessy said both Martinez and Ruiz were part of a convoy of cars that had been following agents as they conducted immigration enforcement operations, and that before the crash and shooting near 39th and Kedzie, Martinez had been broadcasting the pursuit on Facebook Live, “laying on her horn” and “yelling loudly” at the agents."

At what point would that constitute obstruction of justice? The agents work for the federal government and have been charged with a task. The people in this "procession" were interfering with that work.

That one agent may have used a "naughty word" is, in my humble opinion, completely irrelevant.

Can you imagine the stress these agents are under? People apparently feel free to harass them as they please and the agents have no idea which ones may or may not be armed or pose a threat.

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

IANAL, but I did serve on a county grand jury, where obstruction came up fairly frequently - nearly always in the form of witness tampering or destruction of evidence. We got a lot of jury instruction of what it was that constituted obstruction of justice. So this piqued my interest.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice_in_the_United_States ". . .One of the broadest provisions in the chapter, known as the Omnibus Clause, states that anyone who "corruptly... endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice" in connection with a pending court proceeding is subject to punishment. . ." This would imply the presence of a pending court action, which doesn't seem to be part of the ICE playbook lately.

In the notable examples section https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice_in_the_United_States#Notable_examples we see that Jan 6 participants were commonly charged with "Obstruction of Justice/Congress", but I think this was for interference with congressional proceedings. Following the link to the Southard-Rumsey case, we see that Southard-Rumsey was also charged with "Obstruction of law enforcement during civil disorder"

"Obstruction of law enforcement during civil disorder" seems like a much better fit. That may be what you're looking for here.

I mentioned https://www.emptywheel.net/ in another comment. A fair number of practicing lawyers (including career prosecutors) participate in the comment section there. It's a good place to get a perspective on what lawyers are thinking about current events. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/ and https://www.justsecurity.org/ are two others that present legal matters in semi-intelligible language. (I say semi-intelligible because lawyers seem to take a perverse pride in using language that nobody else uses. But you could say that same of sports fans. This happens with specialized interests)

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Doge's avatar

Thx for clarifying

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Sky's avatar

There is nine. You can check rukes for out of state. No concealed carry. Also you have to be a citizen, lawful green card or similar doesn't count . Not sure if that matters

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Sea Sentry's avatar

I thought the same thing also. I'd like to see the story about how she got a CCW in Chicago of all places. It does not sound like the gun was secured. Was it loaded? Does it match allowed weapons on her CCW license? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Outis's avatar

All valid questions!

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Han's avatar

yeah i was wondering if the card she had was from like… Texas.

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Larry's avatar

Obvious astroturf.

Those people are being paid.

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Jim Croft's avatar

The government probably sends them a check also,

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DaveL's avatar

USAID…

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Sky's avatar

I go to the local HHS. I am the only English as primary language speaker in 14 ppl, all ALL under 35 with anchor babies getting full welfare benefits while hubby (not reported in the US) goes to work in Aspen under the table for 50-100$ an hour, and she can be seen working at local jobs while 3/4 of our taxes go to schools that are now 80% primary Spanish soeakers with half not knowing English in Kindergarten. Schools went from A to D and a couple Fs. Average in RE-1 : less than 27% can read and less than 17% math at 3rd grade level. This is largely due to an attitude, type of discipline, values and cultural experiences that are much different in home countries.

Only 2% of landscapers and carpenters are anglo now They wont even hire white guys! The (lack of) quality of workmanship reflects a lack of skilled Vermont styled carpenters that USED to populate our valley with yes dishonest, "Im a carpenter. im a plumber, Im a whatever you need." Pay is good but it is a closed shop.

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Jim Croft's avatar

Went on a family vacation to Groton Ct in 1998. I saw white guys doing flat work concrete. I mostly saw white construction workers. I moved to Denver in late'76 most flat work at new homes was done by Mexicans, IN the early 2000's i was walking down a street of new houses i noticed I was the only white guy. That was new home construction which pays the least.

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James's avatar

The democrat party has returned to their old south roots, in that they are obsessed with cheap labor.

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DaveL's avatar

Not only obsessed, but it’s essential to a viable economy. Just like the peculiar institution was essential for the ante-bellum South.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

The governor of WISCONSIN came out and said this yesterday!!

Maybe if you state relies on slave labor, that's YOUR fault, Mister governor!

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Sky's avatar

I guess it's easier to go after the rich like they're doing here in Colorado they want to raise taxes on people making over $300,000 again.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

Those are the people who can afford the fines.....

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Sky's avatar

You're in the Aspen AKA Roaring Fork Valley, we used to get foreigners and people from other states that wanted to take advantage of the Great outdoor lifestyle and high pay to come and work here I myself an educator with a master's degree have worked cleaning rooms in Aspen. Then they had to offer family ski passes. Now they can save money on that and also for every 3-8 people they hire, at least one is illegal I know this from being an office manager for construction- it's now 2/3 illegal- company 2007-10 thro

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Michelle Enmark, DDS's avatar

Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t…Jeff Childers of Coffee and COVID wrote about the onshoring of the manufacturing of Sharpies back to the US from China. Maybe it’s a convenient excuse to say we can’t do without illegal immigrant labor…?

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DaveL's avatar

Not only a convenient excuse, but supporting extreme exploitation of labor (slavery) in order to prop up your country is immoral.

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Michelle Enmark, DDS's avatar

True!

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Sky's avatar

Funny thing that it turned out to not really be essential..

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Han's avatar

robots and AI are being developed to address those kinds of things.

democrats are still living on their 1850s shattered dreams of exploiting humans.

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Robert Praetorius's avatar

How US Agriculture built the ICE crisis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCVyhqgO8a4

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Patricia Gauthier's avatar

Is this the same convoy that pinned the ICE agents patrol car ( or cars) in with 10 cars surrounding them? Also, if the gun was on the passenger seat of the car ramming into the ICE vehicle, is that a “ concealed carry?” I don’t think so. Who wrote the report that did not include the women’s gun info? Was he/she directed by the same police chief that sent a dispatch to the local police telling them not to respond to the ICE agents’ emergency, life threatening situation? If so, I believe the police chief broke the law.

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DavidH's avatar

So these armed, fanatical insurrectionists ambushed Federal officers, and one of the terrorists got shot as a result. Along with the Chicago mayor, they deserve long prison sentences.

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Marie's avatar
Oct 7Edited

Dumb woman is fortunate the officer’s aim wasn’t so great.

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Sheila Dean's avatar

It's clear to me that the LA Kings are organizing the ICE contentions because they are choking the human traffick and drug pipelines to Canada. When the LA Kings feel just fine placing a 10K bounty onto an ICE officers death and 10 cars show up to blockade the facility, opening fire - that's drug gangs. They own the Mayor's office. The Mayor doesn't really care if he violates the law because legal conformance is all theoretical. The purpose of Chicago law is to prosecute political crimes against the revolutionary cause. The Mayor declared he is at war with US civil law and the Trump administration. He's not going to win.

https://www.thebureau.news/p/exclusive-chinesemexican-syndicate?r=ew9ue&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

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Indecisive decider's avatar

Democrats are unwilling to call out the insane in their party. That is why this is happening. Nothing more. Until that changes, we're just arguing over the silverware on the titanic.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

The purity spiral continues and normal Democrats are being pushed out of the party. The politicians have a very small window to save their future, but it looks like they're not interested in turning down the temperature even a little.

I just wrote about this!

https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/disastrous-decision-double-downs

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Steve Smith's avatar

Oooh, she didn't brandish the loaded firearm.

Nevermind.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

She opted for the 200 horsepower over the 9mm.

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Han's avatar

not defending her but it truly does matter.

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Ronda Ross's avatar

Ultimately the issue ends up in front of SCOTUS. They will say Trump not only has the right to defend federal property and workers , but the responsibility. Granted , I would guess NG policing in states that do not want it, will be a bridge too far.

The important ruling will be counting non citizens for apportionment sake. It is a long shot, but should SCOTUS rule the number of non voting immigrants, now estimated at 60 million and change, is so large it disenfranchises American voters in Congressional district counts, all Hades will break loose.

Blue States and Texas will lose a large number of seats, but Dems will lose many more. Moreover, Dems will spin on deportation so fast, heads will spin. Blue States are spending a fortune on the undocumented and those awaiting asylum claims. The moment these people no longer help produce more Blue districts, they will be sent packing from Blue States with speed Trump will envy.

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