165 Comments

As a Marine veteran I support your right to burn the flag and in fact would fight for you to maintain that right. However, in certain circumstances burning the flag may elicit a violent reaction. While I don't support violence, one should remain vigilant and govern their behavior accordingly

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Thank you for your service. It is telling that burning the American flag is ok, but any disrespect towards the rainbow flag has been criminalized. All part of the woke jihad: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/how-to-wage-a-progressive-jihad

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What statute specifically has criminalized disrespect towards a rainbow flag?

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If someone can't burn a flag - because it might upset certain people or even many people - then it's also okay to ban, say, "anti-vax speech" - because that viewpoint really upsets a lot of people as well. So the "slippery slope" is not hard to identify.

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I just started reading Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth, edited by Mary Holland and Zoey O'Toole. As I wake up to the military, pharmaceutical, medical, agracultural and groupthink industrial complexes, all I can do at this point is shake my head. We have been duped. FOREVER. Terms like woke, Defund the Police, anti-vax, and even conspiracty theory (first coined by the CIA after JFK's assassination) have been co-opted by groups to thwart any foreward progress by their opponents. Has anyone asked why RFK Jr. wants Sirhan Sirhan released from prison?

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Sorta like calling a DI a ‘you’ sir…..for the uninitiated that is reference to a female sheep….ewe.

Not wise, nor to burn our flag.

There are lines that should not be crossed . Accordingly.

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

If burning the US flag is ok, then so is burning a pride or BLM flag. Freedom of expression vs hate crime law.

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Yes. The color of the flag is irrelevant. Burning symbols of any kind is simply a non-violent expression of one's belief, a right protected by the First Amendment.

I oppose anything in the hate crime laws or other laws that bans any kind of speech. It is violent behavior that is and should be banned. For that, each one of us must be responsible for our own actions and not pass guilt for those actions to another who may have inspired or induced those actions through his speech. We need to control our emotions and not allow them to control us.

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Hate crime laws don't ban speech though. You can burn any flag you want. But when you burn a cross in furtherance of murder for the KKK, for example, it adds to the seriousness of the crime, just as a conspiracy would.

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“burn a cross in furtherance of murder for the KKK,”

Burning a cross IN FURTHERANCE of murder? What does that mean?

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

Some weeks ago There was a homeless guy in NY City who went into a restaurant, grabbed 2 Pride flags that were hanging up and proceeded to shit on them and wipe up. How did that go over with the tolerant Left? Last I knew he was charged for hate crimes. I guess he wasn't the "approved" kind of homeless.

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Without researching it, I'm guessing they focused on the theft with intent to destroy being a hate crime. Would be interesting to see it tested with Pride flags that are legally obtained.

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Jul 12, 2023·edited Jul 12, 2023

Yes. That's the issue. You can destroy your own property. Otherwise it's arson/theft/trespass etc *plus* hate.

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He didn't steal them. He did the deed right in the restaurant. :D

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Jul 12, 2023·edited Jul 12, 2023

I diagree with the whole concept of "hate crime", but I think what you are referring to is if you burn *someone else's flag" because that's arson, destruction of property/vandalism, possibly trespass, theft etc.

You can burn any flag that you own. (and if they are charging people for that, it's unconstitutional)

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Even the ACLU has forgotten what the ACLU used to stand for, it's a damn shame.

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You need to be signed in to tell them that you’re 18+ in order to see it

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I avoid u-tube as much as possible. Add to that that I haven’t been thrilled with anything by the Ford group, so I’ll pass and just read.

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You don’t like videography? Ford (News2Share) shoots raw footage of direct action on all sides. Unbiased.

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No, my problem is with u-tube and their censorship policy.

I disagree with your “unbiased “ characterization. One can shoot “footage of direct action on all sides” ...it is how one presents the footage that matters.

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It's normal. The human rights and environmental organizations, if they have large revenue from donors, are under the same pressure and there have been embarrassments in recent years when they had to retract something they said that was ethically unimpeachable because it offended donors.

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Tragic.

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“ America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've got to want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the 'land of the free'? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the 'land of the free.”

From the 1995 movie “The American President”

This is exactly what we are supposed to feel as Americans in regards to flag burning or waving for that matter. Freedom of speech is absolute.

This country has gotten so far off the rails that we have forgotten that we were once a train.

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As I ask in a recent essay, is America really (still) "the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

It would actually take some brave leaders to stand up to the massively-growing Censorship Industrial Complex. Those people still exist - and they ARE brave ... but they are also attacked, vilified, cancelled, bullied, de-monetized and censored ... for exercising the freedom to dissent.

https://billricejr.substack.com/p/being-a-contrarian-aint-for-sissies?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

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Agreed, bill. Good article you wrote. Thanks for the link!

No, it is obvious that we are no longer the land of the free and neither are we brave. We have become so rich and fat with success that we no longer are willing to risk defending...

-“When the American Spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different; Liberty, sir, was then the primary object.” ~ Patrick Henry

Exhibit A: Political discourse at our founding and what passes for political discourse today:

-The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.

-It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains.

-Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

~Patrick Henry 1775

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.” ~Joe Biden 2020

“Screw your freedom” ~Arnold Schwarzenegger 2021

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Patrick Henry would probably be in a gulag today. He'd certainly be censored, de-monetized, cancelled and bullied. Did you see my article on how the Canadian Truckers Protest did NOT become a seminal "Boston Tea Party" type event? It's interesting to think about why that didn't happen. One reason is that in 2021 we had no real "leaders" who were willing to support such a protest. Also, all of the mainstream press either ignored the protest or vilified the protestors. That wouldn't have been the case in 1773.

Lots of changes in America regarding this concept of "freedom." None of them good.

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“Patrick Henry would probably be in a gulag today.”

Yep...charged with “insurrection and seditious conspiracy” and rotting away in a D.C. jail most likely.

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That's really the most important message our rulers are sending: "You better not stand up to authority - if you do, this is what will happen to you." So the Evil Empire has intimidated and largely silenced the requisite leaders who would have to lead the resistance to their rule. They effectively neutralized all of our potential power pieces in this geopolitical, 3-D game of chess that's taking place.

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History repeating itself. In the mid 18th century, England had lost a great deal of money fighting a series of discretionary endless wars that were not necessary to England's survival. (sound familiar?). One of the last was The French and Indian War here in North America.

Then to refill their coffers, they put the screws to their own people and colonies...Then they started sending the message to not stand up to authority or bad things will happen to you...They made examples out of a few colonists here and other citizens.

Its kind of fun to watch it all happen again in real time...I just wish we weren't the British this time! I always preferred the story when we were the Americans 🤪

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Yes to all but the last sentence. Europe has gone way farther off the rails in the same direction. And the USA has traditions and legal constraints that may yet bring us back from the brink, in a way that European countries cannot, owing to their economic and foreign policy subordination to the USA. For example, compare Missouri v. Biden with the EU's new DSA law and its counterpart in the UK. Those laws make it criminal for internet companies not to censor when told to by government.

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For better or worse, the USA is the captain of the ship. Whichever way we go, so goes the world. Lately, the captain has been on a bender wallowing in self doubt, guilt, and recrimination. So the ship is rudderless, and the EU reverts back to its old ways. If the USA re-grows a pair, gets out of its stupor, embraces its roots, and stops trying to absolve itself of perceived sins, the ship will right itself and the world will follow. Time will tell.

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The last time we were here, in a great economic depression and with Europe falling apart with demagogues pointing fingers at neighbors, races and ethnic groups, America turned to the left and reinvested in its own democracy (disciplining the capitalists whose recklessness and excess political influence had caused the depression) while Europe went the other way.

What makes you so sure that if we do that again, Europe will follow?

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"What makes you so sure that if we do that again, Europe will follow?"

I dont know for sure. Thats why I said "Time will tell". (and I dont agree with your assessment of capitalism having caused the Great Depression, either...but will let it slide for now)

100 years ago, the world leader (captain of the ship) was divided between U.K., France, and Germany. The U.S.A. was not in charge or even a leader at that time. WW2 changed all that. From 1945 to the present day, the U.S.A. and its system of government, democratic republic, has been the undisputed leader of the world, including the EU. As long as we keep to our principals of liberty, free speech, and equal protection under the law; we prevail. If we abandon those principals for any reason, we will falter and fail. No one will follow us...because we will not be worthy of following.

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Aaron Sorkin’s fictional aspirations for what he hopes America is sounds great, but doesn’t deal with systemic issues. It speaks from total privilege

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LOL 🙄😂...Sorry, the terms "systemic" and "privilege" have outworn their welcome.

Their 15 minutes of fame is up.

And those weren't Aaron Sorkin's "fictional aspirations"...they were James Madison's very real aspirations and the foundation of our entire republic.

Thanks for playing

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James Madison wrote The American President in 1995?

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If I can’t set a piece of cloth on fire, then this is not a free country. One cannot burn “the” flag, it is a symbol that lives in our minds.

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I've never been that bothered about flag burning. Someone burning the US flag has no effect on how I feel about it. Free speech is vital and we do have to be very careful about what we outlaw. To me there is something very strange about the idea of criminalizing burning a symbol of the nation that prides itself on free expression. As an Air Force veteran, I'm actually far more insulted by those who fly the flag but leave it up till it's frayed, torn and faded. To me, that seems far more disrespectful than burning, as you are proclaiming your patriotism, while treating the symbol with disdain.

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I was just criminalize flag-burning that ended up starting a forrest fire or burning down a house or business.

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That would be a totally superfluous law since there are already laws against starting fires recklessly. The only purpose of such a law would be to create a chilling effect around the act.

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Right. I agree. So someone can't burn a couple of flags in the forrest on dry tinder and leave the budding fire unattended. You could and should be arrested for that. But these people are burning flags on concrete.

A similar analogy might be "hate crime" laws ... if someone murders you because, say, you are gay, and this person didn't like gay people ... there's already a law to punish and deter those people - laws criminalizing murder.

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Exactly. A crime is a crime is a crime. The reason/excuse for it is irrelevant.

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I have no problem with the right to burn the flag, though I strongly disagree with the message that act expresses. I highly doubt today’s flag burners, if they seized power, would respect my right to burn whatever flag they use as their banner (the hammer and sickle?).

I also find disconcerting the number of houses hanging Ukrainian flags out front who would never put up an American flag. What does that even mean? “We don’t like American values, but strongly support the US military industrial complex and its Imperial ambitions?”

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I can’t help but think the flag burners look childish and silly. The flag burning doesn’t offend me, it’s their lack in understanding how privileged they are to live in a place that allows them to display their stupidity that I find offensive.

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LOL. "People burning flags don't offend me, I'm just offended by their reasons for doing so and also I think they're stupid."

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Thank you for the translation 😂

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Just say "love the sinner, hate the sin," another distinction without difference.

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Would you trust those idiots to write a new constitution?

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This constitution is fine, especially the brilliant, poetry in governance, first amendment.

We just have to use it, like the Judge in Missouri vs. Biden did last week. Judges, citizens, legislators, DAs need to stand up, protect and use the constitution as it's written, amend it if we must.

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Why would we need a new constitution?

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Philosophical debate is beyond the scale of the world today. Power, generational wealth exercised from the shadows, mocks our notions. Symbols like flags, childish effigies, sin eaters. The people are going to need to find real solutions, fake voting will never suffice. It’s going to take much more rigor.

All empires are cyclical. The myth of the us has run its course. Time for radical change

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Respectfully, be careful how you use the loaded word "radical". For many of my generation, it means violence. Otherwise, thumbs up!

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Wholeheartedly agree.

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And that would mean what, exactly?

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We need to hold hands and sing kumbaya more stridently!!

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😂 That’s about what most folks are capable of. Radical change…to what? Life is so easy here, kids get cranked about almost nothing. Taibbi is running out of stuff to rant about. He’s become childish, which is a shame.

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And of course, YouTube is restricting to 18+

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I am 67 years-old, and I was denied access. I have no idea what their algorithm is for determining age, but their denial of access is much greater than what they are claiming.

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Might want to consider uploading the video here natively

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Or just upload to Rumble!

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Rumble doesn’t pay creators nearly as well as a monetized YouTube channel. They don’t get the overall views. It sounds good, but isn’t realistic. I’m on both - trust me.

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It’s not always about the money.

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You’re right, but Rumble should be as easy to embed as youtube or the functionality isn’t even as good. That’s more on Substack

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That's why we must promote the platforms that promote free speech. Rumble is a baby compared to YouTube. We vote with our likes, shares, posts, viewership.

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"And of course, YouTube is restricting to 18+"

They don't care about anyone's age. They care about (1) scaring away casual viewers and (2) ID'ing more definitively everyone who's watched it.

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It’s a liability thing about kids & violence

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

Thank you. Curious, is/are there laws? (I'm not a recent parent.) If there are no laws, wouldn't the "danger" apply to anyone viewing violence? I remember Vietnam War coverage was pretty gorey. And that was real.

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I’ve always had tremendous respect for the American flag, mainly because it tolerates being burned. It’s a miraculous symbol of freedom.

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The day it becomes illegal to burn it is the day I’d be tempted to actually burn it.

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

Why is it against the law to burn a pride flag or BLM, isn’t that also free speech?

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I can’t think of anything less important than a flag, or the subject of burning one as a political act. Burning draft cards didn’t end the war, nor did burning bras bring on sexual equality. And, taken to its limits, I always thought those self immolating Buddhist Monks were deluded and pathetic.

Political theater is designed to distract. I never want to be party to that.

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I've never witnessed a flag burning up close, only on film. Doesn't upset me in a nationalistic sense. I usually agree with the protesters. More folks should take the knee at any sport event where flag waving,pledgeds, solutes, and other BS national a list acts proceed the game.

So many wrongs needing righting but folks just zombie along.

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founding
Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

I am against criminalizing flag burning. Always have been. Even when the R's called on Chuck Hagel (Purple Hearts) to counter Bob Kerrey (Medal of Honor) on the Senate floor on flag burning. BUT, how does burning a flag advance anyone's agenda in the US? Just plain dumb.

As for taking a knee, never understood that one. Seems dumb too. Isn't taking a knee the most subservient gesture you can make? So if opposed to the pledge of allegiance, turn your back, walk back to the locker room or just quit doing whatever it is you do that puts you in that place - athlete, spectator, employee, etc.

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That 1989 ruling came fairly close to July 4 so in the spirit of good fun that year i made “Free Speech DIY Kits” which were a photocopy of US flag, with the language of the First Amendment underneath—and stapled a book of matches to it—then handed them out at an outdoor event in upper east tn 😝

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if i could find books of matches i’d do again 😎

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Wally World sells matchbooks.

Toothpicks too.

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thanks! as soon as i wrote that i started looking, lol -- i’ve got a concept that’ll work with unprinted boxes or books. totally doing it!

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