You are the ignorant one. These kids haven’t been indoctrinated with US settler colonialist propaganda. They don’t watch TeeVee. The most effective brainwashing device ever invented.
Anyone who can use that "settler colonialist" lingo about Israel with a straight face reveals a total lack of any understanding of the history of the Middle East. Even the Jews of Moses' day may have been settler colonialists, I suppose, but so then were the Babylonians, the Persians the Seleucid Greeks, the Romans and Byzantines, the Arabs (especially the Arabs), the Crusaders, the Arabs again, and then for 400 years the TURKS (not Arab or Palestinian Arab), and finally the British. Of all those conquering "settler colonialist" regimes the only group that does NOT fit that label were the Zionists who bought their lands from Arab owners and then later had a state turned over to them by the UN. If you use the idiot term "settler colonialist" at least apply it sensibly.
A goofy semantic argument which focuses on specific parts of history while excluding obvious current events that fit the definition like, i don't know, the government funded israelis creating illegal settlements on Palestinian land.
You're not being serious and it's likely you know this.
His point is that history is a kaleidoscope of aggressions of which virtually no nation is exempt. The Middle East is particularly so. Name me a nation of any significance that has not settled adjacent lands at some point, which has not colonized others at some point. Serious people do not approach tough geopolitical challenges with a cafeteria approach, picking analogies they like while ignoring history that contradicts their beliefs.
No, you do not address my point, and thanks Sea Sentry for noticing. The issue of the settlements in the West Bank (which Israelis themselves argue about incessantly) is not at all what the settler colonialism rhetoric is about. The use of the term is overwhelmingly used about Israel itself as a whole, going back to the beginning of the entire Zionist movement. Which is why these bigots constantly go on and on about Zionism, constantly chant "from the river to the sea," constantly cry "we don't want no two states, we want all of '48." Please, Bookers, don't insult our intelligence.
Your "Peacelady" monniker suggests many things, one of which is that you have a certain brand to defend. But for us unwashed, tell us what you mean by "uneducated"?
Does uneducated mean, for example, someone who ( ) hasn't lived in the Middle East, ( ) doesn't speak any Middle Eastern languages? ( ) someone who is not familiar with the myriad ethnic and religious groups that have occupied this area for millennia? ( ) Does not have a solid grasp of at least some aspects of world history? ( ) Someone who does not read the NY Times religiously? ( ) Someone who disagrees with you? Please check all that apply. We need to know if we're idiots or not, and whether we are mildly or severely uneducated.
I was open to reading this and was hoping to read a balanced discussion about the October 7th attack and then the response attack that looked at the situation from both sides. This article is not that. It is so skewed toward sympathy to only the citizens living in Gaza. Do I have empathy and concern for the Palestinians? Yes. Do I have empathy snd concern for the Israeli’s? Yes.
Does this article help me understand the perspective of each? Absolutely not. I also am disturbed that everyone’s fall back position seems to be to claim the other uneducated or ignorant. Do better or stay out of the conversation.
More of concern is your responses lack appreciation of the complexity of this horrible conflict, Beyond. It doesn’t mean you don’t, it’s just your responses don’t reflect complex or critical thinking.
You can’t speak for yourself and just deflect to some progressive website? Do you have any deep understanding of the subject and the region or not? These kids clearly do not.
Right, it's more comfortable for you to preach to bobbleheads that agree with you and won't ask questions. The dumber the better. Can't have anyone disagreeing.
I don't watch TeeVee either however they are instigated and paid by professional activists who don't give a shit about the Israelis or the Palestinians or you for that matter. They are being manipulated.
On one hand people like you want these students held responsible for their actions, but on the other will say they're just useful idiots manipulated by others.
You can't have it both ways.
They're responsible for their actions or not, but not both at the same time.
College students aren't children. They're capable of drawing their own conclusions and having their own motivations.
According to NYPD, about half the people arrested were students, meaning the other half are likely ANTIFA or BLM as many of the tactics used in the 'summer of love' are being used again. It doesn't matter to me who they are and it shouldn't matter to you if you're being honest. What matters is their actions. Block traffic, impede movement on campus? They should be arrested and if they are students, they should be expelled for violating student code of conduct rules.
5 days ago — A CNN reporter tweeted on Thursday that per the NYPD, 134 of the 282 people arrested at City College and Columbia were not “affiliated” w the school. NO update or names of "outside agitators" has been added to the story. Silence means they lied and hope we forget.
I went up to Columbia on April 24th the day after the first NYPD raid to see for myself what chaos and carnage had been wrought by the student occupation and what a sight it was. One tiny area of the sweeping campus lawns had tents and students of every faith and background though Jewish Voices for Peace was the largest single group represented.
It was nothing like 1968 and funny enough Columbia website had honored the 1968 anti-war student protesters for being on the right side of history but yanked that from their site when they sent in NYPD outfitted for a war zone. Shameful liars and brutal abuse of police as skull crackers to silence dissent. Flickr is my pics at Columbia and click through to see domestic media outside campus where no live footage will contradict their on camera lies about violence and hate beyond. oops forgot Flickr link https://www.flickr.com/photos/pameladrew/albums/72177720316452968/
1968 Tribute hypocrites at Columbia tried to erase from history.
Unfortunately - they're even more unrelateable because Palestine is very very far away from localized interest. It has ZERO to do with police, but I have a feeling this is to aggravate police "abuses" towards socialist protestors. Somenone is expected to screw up in the heat of the budding Summer. They HOPE & PRAY to their dead communist ancestor Karl Marx for another BLM cipher to terrorize the US public as a result. Don't fall for it.
The Jews in Israel are not descended from colonists, they were, themselves, refugees... the European ones from Russian pogroms and then the aftermath of the Holocaust when their former countries refused to let them back (there were pogroms in Poland in 1946), the later and more numerous ones were expelled from Muslim MENA countries after 1948.
The Palestinian Arabs have been dealt a very bad hand, for sure, and Israel has done some reprehensible things.
But the world was awash in refugees after World War 2, and only 1 group was refused help by its own people--the Arab countries without exception refused to accept the Palestinians who were displaced in 1948-49. Ten million Germans had to leave the new borders of Poland, and Germany took them in. Many more Muslims left the new predominantly Hindu state of India, and a like number of Hindus left the new Muslim state of Pakistan, and in both cases they were accepted by their co-religionists. People who had been slave laborers for the Nazis trekked across Europe to get home, and all but the Jews were accepted.
The Palestinians were rejected by their own, Arab, people.
Yes, Israel has done some bad things, but don't get all high and mighty about where the initial problem began. This is COMPLICATED, and settler colonialism has nothing to do with it..
No they are definitely morons. And the police acted appropriately. Tents were a clearly defined red line. They have a right to protest they do not have a right to occupy.
The 'Palestinians' are not a country or a people with a home. They're a terrorist organization. Period. There is no Muslim country in the area that wants them or will allow them to seek refuge in their country because of this. Only the Israeli's tried to give them a place to live if they would only be peaceful. The Israeli's even let many of them come into their country to work and feed their families, but again their generosity was repaid with terror attacks. The Palestinians plot, plan, and store their ammunition in tunnels under their schools and hospitals. Incinerating the entire place will finally bring peace to the Middle East
You can truthfully make the same statement about our Congress, recent Presidents and much of our DC Bureaucracy!
The students have the same constitutional First Amendment rights as any Americans: "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." As SCOTUS has noted repeatedly "Hate Speech is Free Speech".
I rarely agree with everything anyone says, but right or wrong, they have that right to speak, to protest.
I absolutely agree, but as Stephen points out below, it wouldn't be OK if it was anti-Black, Confederate Flag, etc...
For me, the issue isn't their right to speech, it's not disbursing when their assemblies are unlawful, it's assaulting and intimidating others (Jewish students in this case), it's damaging property that isn't theirs. Raising one's voice in protest and feeling self-righteous does not give one license to make their own rules.
Why are you here then? Is you daddy paying you subscription? You would literally not last a day in my orbit spouting your nonsense. You are the useful idiots that the new ruling class comes into power with and who are then are lined up and shot.
History won't repeat itself. You and your comrades will be disposed of before that happens.
The free speech aspect is important, although it is hard to argue protesters have the legal right to form encampments, in areas not designated for camping. When asked to disperse, and protesters refuse, are the police suppose to call it a day, and head home?
The question no one seems to be asking, is what makes American college kids, especially young women, dress in clothing, clearly designed to subjugate them, and scream "DieJew Die", and Go Back to Poland". They clearly have the right to say vile things, but why on earth are they spewing such hate, having been raised in one of the most diverse nations, the world has ever known?
They no longer seem, to even feign concern, for starving Palestinian children. No one is collecting canned goods, or volunteering to visit the area ,and offer aid. Shouting "Hamas Forever", in no way helps Palestine, since it is inarguable, the IDF would not be in Gaza , but for the Hamas, Oct 7 attack.
Israelis left Gaza nearly 2 decades ago. Other than picking up the tab , for much of Palestinian life, Palestinians rule themselves. They chose Hamas.
Moreover, where were the protesters when Syria was killing Palestinians by the hundred thousand? Children are dying in the Sudan, by the tens of thousands, but then it is tough to blame the Jews, for their deaths. Free speech is very important. Using it to hide antisemitism, is legal, but hardly something to cheer.
Israel did not “leave Gaza decades ago” but ruled it as a colony, a source of cheap labor and any protest to demand autonomy was met with violence. It’s completely disingenuous to pretend Gaza had even the barest right of self determination. A blockade on the Mediterranean? Only three Israeli entrances closely monitored by Israel? All utilities controlled by Israel? Before October 7th, one of the ministers publicly announced it was “putting Gaza on a diet.” What does that tell you?
What we’re seeing on campuses is hopeful. Young people who want a world that doesn’t justify cruelty, starvation of children, control of the media or distortion of history. What is rarely reported are the number of Jewish students participating. They understand Never Again means the endless wars of the twentieth century should mean never again.
If that's what young people want, they should be protesting the mullahs who fund Hamas and use the Palestinians to advance their empire, and they don't fund Hamas because they love Palestinians, or care about the women and children being used as human shields. On the contrary.
Wow, talk about missing major historical points on Israel.
It's not a colony, and was for many years "self ruled" by whatever the Islamic terror flavor of the day wins the day. Lately it's Hamas; before it was the PLO and Black September, and the PA and the...well, you get the point I hope. Since day one the Arabs in the area designated as Palestine refused to allow Jews a place to call home - even after they *purchased*, not stole or colonized - the land the wanted as theirs.
I'm not going to regurgitate decades of direct assaults on Jews by the likes of Hamas (Munich, anyone?) but your failure to even acknowledge the fact that the Israelis have any reason to have resorted to containment is sad, at best.
These students are bored and have nothing to protest since the US is a pretty good place to live when things get squirrelly on the global stage. So they pick an avowed genocidal terrorist group to achieve maximum shock effect. I've not heard of one of them traveling to Gaza to fight for Hamas.
Once Israel pulled every last Jew out of Gaza, the Gazans chose Hamas to rule them. Hamas at no point has ever demanded "autonomy," as you put it. Gaza already had that as of 2005. What Hamas has demanded and openly so is the elimination of Israel entirely. Israel has kept tight control over the border with Gaza (not all that tight as October 7 revealed) solely because Hamas, instead of working out a way of co-existing with Israel, began firing rockets by the thousands at Israel. You have to be utterly blind not to understand that. Otherwise, Israel admitted thousands from Gaza to work in Israel and kept open all kinds of supplies into Gaza (as the concrete wasted on 300 miles of tunnels alone attests). Your depiction is a cartoon caricature of a fantasy.
I am not a supporter of Hamas as you would attempt to prove and your spin on history does not take into account the “tight control” included firing on defenseless civilians, children and regulating the food supply, utilities and access to clean water. In your own community, does the city closest to you have the right to restrict your movements, destroy greenhouses to grow your own food, cut off roads with armed guards and provide no opportunity remove these restrictions? This has been brewing for years and both sides are going for broke it looks like to me. Based on your comment, you believe Israel is justified in its current assault and its’ past history is not a factor. I disagree.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The city closest to me is Lansing, MI, I am in East Lansing. Lansing has fired no rockets over at us, as near as I can tell, so neither city has seen fit to restrict one another. Imagine! As for "firing on defenseless children," yes, Hamas surely did that on October 7. Israel has killed children since because Hamas does everything it can to ensure they will be in the line of fire -- despite all that Israel does to minimize this. As for destroying greenhouse, you have got to be kidding. When Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, it left an entire industry of them intact. It was HAMAS that then proceeded to destroy them!
I was using that strictly as an example and not to be taken literally. Nowhere in America are our movements as restricted as have been the Palestians in Gaza. There are numerous accounts of children shot or maimed by the IDF, documented by the UN. We can not agree on facts and this, in a nutshell, is where the discussion goes. I have not convinced you to consider reviewing the history and you have not convinced me to ignore it.
Maybe we can agree on this — no more killing. A ceasefire and international peacekeepers.
Gazans aren't citizens of Israel. It was the Gazans that worked in Israel that helped the barbarism of 10/7 to take place. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them anymore. I did a year ago but not anymore. I feel badly for the 20% of them that just want to get on with life, but the majority of them support hamas. It's why none of the other Arab countries want anything to do with them.
I live about 150 miles from the Mexican border. I cannot cross without showing my papers. Mexico cleans their own water, grows their own food. As Gaza should have done and were doing for the most part. instead they built 500 miles of tunnels. The moronic waste of all of that money that was given to them to build was used to do this.
Sorry to correct you SW but Israel did in fact leave Gaza to the inhabitants long ago, then they elected Hamas to rule them, the rest since that time is a sad history.
They did not leave Gaza as an independent state and you know that. There was a blockade into the Mediterranean, no airport for the Palestinians to fly to other countries and the border was controlled by Israel. Do you deny that? Even Israel’s own ministers called it an open air prison.
If the college students are so gullible, radical, ignorant, and uninformed—and historically illiterate—how did they get into college in the first place? Because they’re stupid and lack critical thinking skills?
As children the first thing we understand is unfairness. As we mature we understand injustice. This is why the protests are not confined to American universities, they are taking place around the globe.
Of course they do. They are a lethal threat to each other at this point and the only chance of a solution I can see is a permanent ceasefire with an international peace keeping force that does not include Americans or Israelis. Do I think this will happen? No I don’t and I don’t know how it will end. But the first step has to be a ceasefire and aid to Palestinians. No child should starve to death over a piece of land.
All the deaths of 10/7 and since are the responsibility of Hamas who doesn't want a two state solution or any solution with Israel. Ever. They have stated and continue to stated in words and action they want all Jews dead. so please tell us all what should the Jews do?
I worry that what the education system most lacks today is nuance. So many issues are seen as black and white, oppressed/victim and oppressor/perpetrator. The extreme over-reaction to ideas that fall outside the orthodoxies is a type of sickness that fuels distorted thinking. In the real world circumstances are rarely,if ever that simple. It’s the lack of nuance that disturbs me.
There's no nuance in occupation or genocide. And I find that these students, many of whom are jewish, are flatly against Zionism. They know the history of the Holocaust and the Nakba. It seems to me "Ideas that fall outside the orthodoxy" are precisely what are needed. I've seen more than my share of foolish wars in my lifetime. And when our tax dollars continue to flow towards atrocities and vicious wars (everywhere) I stand with the students, and Peace. Everyone- even Bibi- knows this isn't a winnable situation. But it will play out. And we will continue to babble about the rights and wrongs. We can be a vicious species. this isn't a winnable situation. But it will play out. And we will continue to babble about the rights and wrongs. We can be a vicious species. But we choose. Moment to moment. It's on US.
So you agree that the Palestinian expressed desire to commit genocide against Israel would be wrong then?
Different from events in Gaza now which, though horrific, quite obviously reflect no intent of extermination of a certain population (genocide) but just the side effect of trying to eliminate forces that hide under civilians.
Meantime many people in Israel are opposed to the settlements in the West Bank and opposed to Netanyahu's government.
And regarding occupation observe what happened after Israel withdrew from Gaza and Hamas took the opportunity to create infrastructure to attack Israel.
And note that the Palestinians could not make it work living in Jordan despite that land being allocated to them. Whereas vastly more people were relocated in the India/Pakistan split but Pakistanis aren't insisting they return to India nor is the opposite occurring.
This is a tragic occurrence and one can argue in good faith about whether Israel has made the correct choices here. I don't think you can fairly ignore the complexity, the nuances, of the situation.
Your conclusions vary from my own. I am not some nut job. There may be complexity, to which Israel has contributed mightily. Even some Holocaust survivors and their descendants disagree on the path forward. The Balfour Declaration and the history of colonization before it is complicated. But ethnic cleansing isn't. It's in the very definition of the establishment of Israel, and has been reiterated and celebrated since its inception. The Nakba happened. How are any people to respond to such an invasion? Ok, see ya? Hope you enjoy my former home? Zionists have repeatedly broken every accord, expanding settlements, claiming more land, been the refuseniks. It's ludicrous to think 1. The US hasn't done the same and 2. That the former inhabitants wouldn't rebel. I don't think it's my sources that are wrong. I just think we have opposing world views.
These nut jobs can yell and hollar all they want. But they expose themselves as frauds for saying nothing about hostages, the ceasefire that existed on 10/5 but was broken by the Gaza government and murdered, raped, tortured and kidnapped the very people that were most welcoming to Gazans. The stupidity of these protestors is breathtaking.
Yeah, actually. See: Jewish Voice for Peace, for starters. I've been watching interviews and coverage from across the US and the globe. BTW, Zionism, amongst Orthodox, Reform & Hassidim, isn't universal. Ya know. Like MANY people: Jews are not homogeneous.
It has less to do with blaming the Jews, than with the fact that American taxpayers are on the hook for $4B annually for Israel, PLUS an additional $14B for this war. We are indirectly responsible for Israel's slaughter of civilians, because we fund it, so yes, many of us oppose this.
I find it fascinating the extent to which these talking points are repeated ad nauseam by Israel's apologists. And the endless victimhood claims of antiSemitism from the people performing the genocide in Gaza and the Gestapo ops on the West Bank, or cheering them on.
Let me start with the Syria talking point. The US does not provide the funding and arms to Syria to kill anyone, nor to Sudan. Simple. Done.
Hamas has not held an election since they first took power in the election. In short, they turned themselves into dictators. Israel, on the other hand, has elected far more murderous and terrorist governments for decades now, in open elections.
And - Israel "left" Gaza, but has held it in virtual siege since then. Israel decides everything about Gaza from outside it. And Israel has had a policy of periodically doing what their racist, vicious govt calls "mowing the grass" - ie destroying infrastructure.
And now Israel has destroyed every university, medical facility and govt site, has deliberately targeted and killed health care workers, journalists, civic administrators etc etc, and its govt has openly declared that starving Palestinians is its goal. Which it is carrying out, while also using heaviy munitions to slaughter indiscriminately, and snipers to amuse themselves killing civilians including children. While it amps up its Gestapo ops on the West Bank 100x.
The Nazi state of Israel in full view. Cheered on by far too many Brownshirts in the US.
So my question is - where did Israeli Jews and so many Zionist Jews and Zionists in general find the hate to morph into Nazis? Because they have.
Your question about young women, allegedly educated, signing onto this movement is important. Is it true that in Iran a protest movement erupted in that theocratic regime because a young women was killed for not being properly scarved? I am ashamed of these women protesters. I really am.
@Ronda Ross. You clearly didn't watch the video. It was 20 college students chanting, and I didn't hear a single instance of "DieJ**Die" or "got back to Poland".
You talk about collecting "canned goods" or "visiting the area"--you do realize that aid is not being allowed (especially outside aid) and the press isn't allowed into Gaza, much less random people who just want to "visit"
And people have been raising concerns about Sudan since the crisis there started. The DIFFERENCE (and why people in the US are so upset this time) is that the US DOES NOT FUND THE VARIOUS MILITARY/REBEL FACTIONS OF SUDAN WITH US TAX DOLLARS!! And again, with Syria...the US DOES NOT SEND TO US TAX DOLLARS TO FUND THE SYRIAN MILITARY!!!--in fact, if you recall, the US actually funded the rebel groups there.
The very fact you cannot understand why young people might feel this way says a lot about.
Hey, @MattTaibbi I've been here since you left RS and started the Substack. I have to say I am becoming increasing disappointed with audience you seem to be attracting--there is a serious lack of intellectual curiosity going on.
Even looking at the YT comments for the video in this piece: it's just a bunch of people saying the 20-25 kids deserved to be gassed and arrested for chanting on a college lawn. The vibe here is really attracting some weird people. Finally had to say something.
I watched the whole video clip. Nowhere did anyone say "DieJew Die," "Go Back to Poland" or "Hamas Forever." What they said was "end the occupation" "end genocide" ceasefire now" "Palestine will be free" and similar things. You're either lying or you're not actually listening to the protests.
No, it is not "by definition" a declaration of genocide in any way, shape, or form. It's an aspirational statement, like "and crown thy good, with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea." Some people who've used that phrase may have had genocidal intentions (like the Likud party in Israel, with it's charter saying there will only be Jewish sovereignty from the Jordan to the sea), but most people who are chanting it on US campuses want equal rights and dignity for Palestinians AND Jewish people "from the river to the sea." Calling that phrase "genocidal" is the most McCarthyite thing I've seen, among many, in this conflict.
Learn to think for yourself instead of swallowing propaganda whole and repeating it in hateful ways. I am in favor of equal human rights and dignity for people of all religions, from the river to the sea. So are most of the Jewish people I know.
It’s interesting that “Jews will not replace us,” a chant that is antisemitic on its face, doesn’t raise the same kind of alarm for the people who are so eager to condemn people who want peace and freedom for everyone through a particular interpretation of a poetic phrase (guilt by word association).
I appreciate the on-the-scene video...but unless I completely missed something, calling this minor, tepid confrontation "heavy handed" use of "heavy police force" is quite a stretch.
I found a video of UCLA with a “viewer discretion” warning.
It was the most anodyne video I’ve seen in this genre. I’ve seen video of teenager girl fights much more violent.
I’ll pay for one of these people to travel to Gaza to “fight.” One condition: constant live feed from a constantly worn Go Pro so I can watch the results.
This is so invaluable just having less edited footage without the need to contextualize everything. Nice that we still have on ground journalism through efforts like this.
Funny when you notice that the “protesters” all have the same brand new REI tents. Then you realize they’re organized by people funded through Arrabella to hide the fact that George Soros is funding them! Add to that the billions Middle Eastern countries have been allowed to spend on our universities and the utter elimination of academic rigor in favor of grade inflation and gender studies degrees. The Right was correct to point this out in the 80s and 90s when I ridiculed them for being “Jesus lovers”. Now we have a completely medieval college system geared towards producing scholars of Marxist theology. We’ve come full circle.
Good to see someone paying attention. Now if we can get the rest of the masses to realize the issue they are protesting every time (because it is many of the same people no matter of it is Gaza or BLM or climate change) is never the real issue and is instead a mechanism for neo-Bolshevik revolution we might actually save western society from destroying itself.
Totally agree! And I read this quote the other from Vlad Lenin (I might not get it exactly right): Let me teach your children for 4 years and I will have planted the seed that will never be uprooted."
A good book on this topic is "The Marxification of Education" by James Lindsay. They have been STRIVING for this for decades, yet even noticing what they proudly proclaim is considered tin-hattism...
Not full circle in the realm of universities in the U.S. - rather it's a linear direction toward Marxist ideology. For example, Harvard's original motto: Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae. So it wasn't just the "Right" in the 80s and 90s who were "Jesus lovers," but the original builders of the universites dating back to the 1600s. It has been a steady decline away from being focused on Christianity and the search for truth, first into secular humanism, and now onward to Marxism, all while engaging in the pretense of being more "enlightened." "Full circle" would entail a return to the Univesities' Christian roots. I'm not holding my breath.
Sadly free speech has suddenly become important to these students. This is exactly why upholding the speech rights of those you disagree most with matters. censorship and authoritarianism can and will be used against you.
But on campus, doesn't the code of conduct trump free speech? Misgendering, etc. should be free speech, but it's definitely not. And of course free speech doesn't protect students when they veer off into trespassing and smashing windows. How many millions of dollars is this costing?
Of I agree. Cancel culture, intolerance towards different viewpoints, safetyism have all been birthed in the Academy. The number of academics and thinkers chased off campus for holding unpopular views is part of a regular school week now. How these protesters are shocked when their speech isn’t tolerated is really something to witness. What a toxic environment that’s been created and the snake is devouring its tail. Hoisting the Palestinian flag is really the icing on this insane cake. If I was a lawmaker, I’d leave the encampments and only engage when there was vandalism etc. I would deploy the police force to provide protective service for Jewish students and directly bill the administration for the cost. These institutions have indoctrinated whole generations and created the vapid intellectual climate for this. Taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook but rather their generous endowment funds.
Wouldn't it be better to encourage the complete destruction of those universities, such that no one would botter applying to attend those "schools" in the future?
I’m not into destruction. Let the market decide. Let better institutions be born and be fully meritocratic and let the best and brightest flock there and the best companies hire. It takes more time, sure, but the Left’s game is destruction and nihilism. I’m not interested in that game plus they’ve perfected it. Let the alternative be the beacon.
Hey, just trying to extend the irony to its logical conclusion - let the "protesters" destroy all the campus buildings to make the universities into the physical manifestations of that which they already are: worthless constructs pretending to be institutions of higher learning.
The fundamental problem with all of these protests is summed up nicely by that young woman speaking into the megaphone at the end: "We're protesting Palestine being occupied illegally!" She is ignorant of the facts, as are most of the protesters and their supporters. There was no occupation of Gaza from 2004 until they invaded Israel and murdered 1200 people. And it's telling how all these protesters conveniently overlook that giant wall erected by Egypt along its entire border with Gaza. The only reason for any confinement of either Gaza or the West Bank is because of their insatiable appetite for violence directed at Israel. Their predicament is entirely due to their own hostility and unwillingness to coexist. And in this attitude they have been aided and abetted for 75 years by the UN. Unfortunately, Israel and the American Jewish community (including AIPAC and ADL) have done little to nothing to educate the public about the facts and refute the false narrative. The narrative has been too focused on remembering the holocaust and insufficiently attentive to the dynamics of today.
That's your interpretation. I don't dare bring up Dr. Finkelstein. I'm trying to think: how long were indigenous people warring with the colonists and settlers in the US? Oh. Wait. But we "gave" them some land. And they have tribal rules. And we NEVER break a treaty. This line of revisionist thinking is archaic. Humanity needs to get it together. And wars and tribalism isn't gonna get us to peace. For anyone. Also, this madness with Zionism is placing Judaism and Jews at higher risk across the world.
It's hard to find any history of humanity that doesn't involve one people conquering another people and taking their land. To say that whoever "originally" lived somewhere should "own" that land forever is a losing argument simply because of its unworkability. By that thinking everyone in the world would have to move out save for a few forgotten tribes deep in the jungles of Asia and South America. It's time to give up the idea that "settler colonialism" is something to be angry about and we should all give land "back" to its "rightful owners". Maybe I'm overly paranoid and suspicious, but I think most people talking about "settler colonialism" are either (a) looking for the latest hip issue to attach themselves to in order to feel important or (b) just trying to steal something that belongs to others.
I'm intrigued by your side comment "madness with Zionism" however. What do you mean by madness? And what is your definition of Zionism? If it's "the desire for the Jews to have a homeland", then why is that something that should be debated, and why is a belief in it considered "madness"? Don't the Jews deserve their own homeland just like everyone else? Don't tell me "that land belongs to the Palestinians, so the Jews should leave," because anyone with a 3rd grade education knows better than that. I have yet to hear anyone who thinks that the Palestinians should get all that land to themselves provide a reasonable explanation why. Aren't the Palestinians themselves settlers?
So if the Axis powers had won and we lived in a global Third Reich and all Jews had been killed and Hitler had put a big dent in populations of other non Aryans, you'd be fine with that? If you were Jewish (or any of those other "inferior" types), you'd be dead. So forget I asked.
Well, to me at least, the point of civil disobedience should be to fight against some unjust situation. Otherwise it's just a waste of everyone's time and creates a lot of hostility and unrest for no good purpose. Here I don't see anyone fighting any unjust situation. They have it completely backwards. What they should be saying is "Hamas has got to go!" Instead they're cheering for the very people who are stealing from the citizens in order to build a war machine, instead of helping them improve their lives.
I think all would go home if the Israeli government would just stop slaughtering women and children. It was much quieter on campuses when Israel was just keeping Gazans in an open air prison and stealing land on the West Bank.
Erik, people were cheering on October 8th at the thought of slaughtered Jews before any retaliation had begun. You know ‘the resistance” and all that virtuous, benign stuff. Amazing that ‘open air prison’ even had fertility clinics to make sure Gazans who were struggling to have children could conceive. I’m amazed they had money for that sort of thing.
What’s the point in denying it? Ffs people were out in the streets in London, Toronto, New York and other major centers cheering the slaughter of Jewish civilians. What did you think resistance looks like y’all? Do you want me to document every goddamn instance globally and who covered it? The gaslighting and obfuscation of the Oct 7 massacre is out of this world. If you want Palestinian women and children to be out of harms way, tell Hamas to surrender and hand back all the hostages dead and alive. There fixed it for you.
I don't see how it's the right of any student or non student to set up tents on public or private property that is not designated for that. And as others have mentioned, many of these "protestors" only care about their own first amendment rights.
This is outside my office. I was not on campus at this time. This is the best coverage of the events I've seen. Much better than local Tampa news. The 3rd protest w/o tents was allowed.
FYI the University of South Florida was where Sami-Al-Arian was a tenured professor.
Very much appreciate the unedited footage vs what you will see on the nightly news or in Twitter clips. What we don't necessarily have is the context around the previous dialogue among protestors, the police, the university administration, etc.
The fact that these brutal police attacks on pro- Palestinian students are happening after Netanyahu called for a crackdown raises the question of who's running this country, us or the Israelis.
It would appear to be the Israelis, which raises the question of how the hell this happened.
The answers, one suspects, involve money and compromising information about US politicians.
Brutal police attacks? I only saw tear gas and people being wrestled out of the crowd. No clubbing, no cracked skulls, no rubber bullets....
By the way, it's hard to tell from the video due to the up close nature, but it looked like ~50 protestors? Of which 10 were arrested? At a university of 49,000 students?
Ten arrested? Brutal crackdown? If you are told to leave and it's not your home --- leave.
BTW, watch the films of the real civil rights marchers: they were hit with fire hoses and police dogs and they got arrested ---- THOSE were the American protesters who set the standard with their dignified response to the horrid treatment they received. And, they won. Their cause was just. Their humanity could not be denied. And they were rightly demanding to be part of America, in full measure.
These protesters are clowns. Cosplay. If I understand that term correctly. They are playing at being virtuous, caring (about certain things), conscientious (about certain things), while at the same time only inferring knowledge about what they are dressing up for. And BTW, they really don't want to be part of that same America, as we know it. These jokers really have no appreciation of what it means, "the land of the free." Hard lesson may be coming.
Because you do not have an intelligent response. Biden, directly or indirectly, is berating Bibi every friggin' day to do nothing more that will cost Palestinian lives. Biden is ok with Hamas "battalions" sheltering in Rafa behind civilians as human shields and just waiting to attack Israel again in two or three years once Hamas fighters are beefed up again by Iran. Your comment, by the way, betrays your worldview that the Rothschilds are behind most of the bad things happening to all "oppressed" peoples. And why the heck doesn't Matt allow "dislike" symbols?
Oh PUHLEASE. Go back to the shadows Arrabella hack. When do we get to hear your homily about how it’s JUST the Israelis you’re against. Not Jews. Sounds like peak Weimar appeasement.
There is no shortage of money all around influencing decision makers. As much as people rattle on about the Israeli lobby, the billions flowing to higher head from Qatar is eye opening and insane.
When I talk about money from Qatar to American universities I’m talking about billions of dollars here. Administrators will jump through a lot of egregious hoops to keep that gravy train going and most certainly look the other way when they are a safe haven for terrorists etc. It’s nothing new but in terms of bags of cash, they have it in spades compared to the Jewish lobby.
I recommend you read John Mearsheimer's analysis of the influence of the Israel lobby on the US.
He says our massive support for Israel for decades runs counter to the common sense goal of using foreign policy to advance American interests, which means we put the interests of a foreign state over our own, which makes no sense.
The explanation for this odd situation lies with the power of the Israel lobby, he says.
I find Mearsheimer compelling on other topics. I’m much less moved by his Israel position. I’ve read several things and listened to him on it but it just doesn’t resonate. As for money, let the campuses divest from Israel. If that’s the game these students would like to play shall we open the books on, as previously mentioned, Qatar and let’s not forget bluddy China. Greed and corruption has utterly ruined higher ed in America. I often wonder the end game in Mearsheimer’s brain, pull all support for Israel…..what does that even begin to look like?
Please cite The WSJ or National Review to support your point. The Guardian is one of the most left wing major papers in the world so, yes, I'll be close minded and not click on your link. Cheers!
How well I remember…We were all throwing rocks and burning buildings. Only we weren’t. We threatened cops lives. Only we didn’t.
And of course, we all practiced spitting at returning soldiers. Except we never did. But somehow the narrative never changes. And a girl who gets a careless poke in the head by passing marchers becomes a victim of antisemitism who gets “stabbed in the eye”, and surrounded by a screaming mob.
Still, (true story!), we could all laugh when the Bank of America on Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley protected its glass with plywood as the execs raced to pull the local TV ad which said: ‘Bank of America! There’s a branch just a stones throw away.’
What color is the sky in your world? I suppose we're not to believe the videos of buildings being burned in Portland. Or the Molotov cocktail thrown at police officers in Brooklyn. I joined Racket to have informed discussions with educated people from both sides of the aisle, not to be gaslit.
Well, Seamus, I was talking about 1968. I was also looking out my window as James Rector was gunned down by Alameda Sheriffs during the People’s Park demonstrations. And yesterday was the anniversary of the Kent state murders, and I’ve been around a long time, and I don’t need help remembering my friends bloodied by cops batons, beaten to a pulp with their hands behind their backs, for marching in peace. I don’t know what you think of as gaslighting, but ask Jill Stein what it feels like. Her memory of getting beaten is more recent and, no, I guess cops have not reformed yet.
Yeah, Sera is right on this one Seamus. She’s just trying to tell you not to fall for the propaganda put out by those in power.
Sarah, I was there way back when, too. I was in the Marine Corps. Didn’t like being calling a “baby killer,” but the kids had it right about Vietnam. And the treatment of them,then, is all but identical to the treatment these kids are getting now. In the main the kids are just saying stop the bloodshed. A little on the zealous side at times, but the main message is what is important.
Really. It's just like VN when you were in the Corps being called a baby killer, and these kids not subject to the draft or personal hygiene for that matter --- but it's just like back then, and they just want to stop the bloodshed. Whose? Israeli women who were viciously raped and killed?
Why all the masking? Who is paying for this? And this got organized throughout the US (and the world, for that matter) pretty quickly, didn't it?
This has not a thing in common with the protests in the 60s, except maybe the organizers being just fine with the take-down of the US of A.
"A little zealous." A little stupid. Vapid. Shallow. Entitled. Etc.
BTW, what is the "main message?" It's hard to understand through the PLO scarf without a bullhorn.
Thank you Erik, most of us were mad at the government, not the soldiers. We were trying to save soldiers’ lives too, and, for the record, no one I ever knew spit on anyone coming back from hell.
Erik, I agree with you (and with Sera to a degree). We have to be vigilant about those in power and it's clear that the government has abused its power tremendously over the years, from the top (Vietnam, Iraq) to the bottom (police abuse). What I was objecting to was Sera's denial that any of the protestor actions even happened ("And of course, we all practiced spitting at returning soldiers. Except we never did."), which you yourself refute in your post when you note that you were called a baby killer. I'm not disputing that "the kids had it right about Vietnam"; my hope is that the conversation in this comment section start from an honest, open POV rather than denial of fact - i.e. the gaslighting I was referencing.
No problem. By definition, you can't have debates without disagreeing. I don't know if Sera was intentionally gaslighting, however. I see that some podcast news outlets are saying the same thing. She might have based her belief on that.
Also, I agree with her that the protests should not be characterized as violent and antisemitic. I'm sure to some lesser extent they are, but from what I can tell most students are peaceful (though loud) and would go home if there were a ceasefire or if our leaders would stop sending bombs to be used on Palestinians.
Thanks for your comments. I look forward to more. I'm quite disturbed about the killing, here, especially our nation's involvement in it. Reading and responding to comments gives me a way to both learn and vent.
I appreciate that. I think part of the problem is in the nature of the comment forum. It operates in black and white. I was being quite truthful when I said that “we didn’t throw rocks” etc. but of course some did, and that’s why they boarded up the banks. And maybe some did spit and insult the soldiers, but I was part of what I believe was the majority who preferred to put flowers into the barrels of soldiers’ rifles. I do believe that it was we, the nonviolent, who had the most effect. And don’t forget about the infiltration of ‘Agents provocateurs’. The FBI were at event there was, and they know their business.
In any case, never hesitate to call me out, I am always open to cordial debate, and best wishes.
These kids are uneducated morons instigated by professional activists and their own empty lives. It's like watching adult daycare. They're pathetic.
You are the ignorant one. These kids haven’t been indoctrinated with US settler colonialist propaganda. They don’t watch TeeVee. The most effective brainwashing device ever invented.
Anyone who can use that "settler colonialist" lingo about Israel with a straight face reveals a total lack of any understanding of the history of the Middle East. Even the Jews of Moses' day may have been settler colonialists, I suppose, but so then were the Babylonians, the Persians the Seleucid Greeks, the Romans and Byzantines, the Arabs (especially the Arabs), the Crusaders, the Arabs again, and then for 400 years the TURKS (not Arab or Palestinian Arab), and finally the British. Of all those conquering "settler colonialist" regimes the only group that does NOT fit that label were the Zionists who bought their lands from Arab owners and then later had a state turned over to them by the UN. If you use the idiot term "settler colonialist" at least apply it sensibly.
A goofy semantic argument which focuses on specific parts of history while excluding obvious current events that fit the definition like, i don't know, the government funded israelis creating illegal settlements on Palestinian land.
You're not being serious and it's likely you know this.
That was an unserious response. You did not address Jonathan’s point.
I directly addressed his point.
Which was "settler colonialist lingo is innacurate"
It is, in fact, accurate when you're talking about ongoing illegal Israeli settlements.
His point is that history is a kaleidoscope of aggressions of which virtually no nation is exempt. The Middle East is particularly so. Name me a nation of any significance that has not settled adjacent lands at some point, which has not colonized others at some point. Serious people do not approach tough geopolitical challenges with a cafeteria approach, picking analogies they like while ignoring history that contradicts their beliefs.
No, you do not address my point, and thanks Sea Sentry for noticing. The issue of the settlements in the West Bank (which Israelis themselves argue about incessantly) is not at all what the settler colonialism rhetoric is about. The use of the term is overwhelmingly used about Israel itself as a whole, going back to the beginning of the entire Zionist movement. Which is why these bigots constantly go on and on about Zionism, constantly chant "from the river to the sea," constantly cry "we don't want no two states, we want all of '48." Please, Bookers, don't insult our intelligence.
Dude, you have to do better. Your assumptions are all wrong, and it's leading you to bad conclusions. You just don't want to admit it.
You say this like they don't share DNA
I suppose in some alternate universe, this comment makes sense.
"US settler colonialist propaganda"
Shouldn't you be praising Osama bin Laden in a tiktok video or something?
I don’t argue with uneducated idiots.
Your "Peacelady" monniker suggests many things, one of which is that you have a certain brand to defend. But for us unwashed, tell us what you mean by "uneducated"?
Does uneducated mean, for example, someone who ( ) hasn't lived in the Middle East, ( ) doesn't speak any Middle Eastern languages? ( ) someone who is not familiar with the myriad ethnic and religious groups that have occupied this area for millennia? ( ) Does not have a solid grasp of at least some aspects of world history? ( ) Someone who does not read the NY Times religiously? ( ) Someone who disagrees with you? Please check all that apply. We need to know if we're idiots or not, and whether we are mildly or severely uneducated.
Here’s an educated response from a veteran journalist who hasn’t sold his soul.
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/05/06/patrick-lawrence-of-journalists-students-power/
I was open to reading this and was hoping to read a balanced discussion about the October 7th attack and then the response attack that looked at the situation from both sides. This article is not that. It is so skewed toward sympathy to only the citizens living in Gaza. Do I have empathy and concern for the Palestinians? Yes. Do I have empathy snd concern for the Israeli’s? Yes.
Does this article help me understand the perspective of each? Absolutely not. I also am disturbed that everyone’s fall back position seems to be to claim the other uneducated or ignorant. Do better or stay out of the conversation.
More of concern is your responses lack appreciation of the complexity of this horrible conflict, Beyond. It doesn’t mean you don’t, it’s just your responses don’t reflect complex or critical thinking.
If you
Analytical thinking is much more constructive and impartial than critical thinking.
And oh by the way, you make a lot of assumptions about me that are completely false.
You can’t speak for yourself and just deflect to some progressive website? Do you have any deep understanding of the subject and the region or not? These kids clearly do not.
I am sure that all of your cats appreciate such restraint
Right, it's more comfortable for you to preach to bobbleheads that agree with you and won't ask questions. The dumber the better. Can't have anyone disagreeing.
Have you read the letter ?
I don't watch TeeVee either however they are instigated and paid by professional activists who don't give a shit about the Israelis or the Palestinians or you for that matter. They are being manipulated.
You don't know that.
On one hand people like you want these students held responsible for their actions, but on the other will say they're just useful idiots manipulated by others.
You can't have it both ways.
They're responsible for their actions or not, but not both at the same time.
College students aren't children. They're capable of drawing their own conclusions and having their own motivations.
Infantilizing them isn't accurate or useful.
According to NYPD, about half the people arrested were students, meaning the other half are likely ANTIFA or BLM as many of the tactics used in the 'summer of love' are being used again. It doesn't matter to me who they are and it shouldn't matter to you if you're being honest. What matters is their actions. Block traffic, impede movement on campus? They should be arrested and if they are students, they should be expelled for violating student code of conduct rules.
5 days ago — A CNN reporter tweeted on Thursday that per the NYPD, 134 of the 282 people arrested at City College and Columbia were not “affiliated” w the school. NO update or names of "outside agitators" has been added to the story. Silence means they lied and hope we forget.
I went up to Columbia on April 24th the day after the first NYPD raid to see for myself what chaos and carnage had been wrought by the student occupation and what a sight it was. One tiny area of the sweeping campus lawns had tents and students of every faith and background though Jewish Voices for Peace was the largest single group represented.
It was nothing like 1968 and funny enough Columbia website had honored the 1968 anti-war student protesters for being on the right side of history but yanked that from their site when they sent in NYPD outfitted for a war zone. Shameful liars and brutal abuse of police as skull crackers to silence dissent. Flickr is my pics at Columbia and click through to see domestic media outside campus where no live footage will contradict their on camera lies about violence and hate beyond. oops forgot Flickr link https://www.flickr.com/photos/pameladrew/albums/72177720316452968/
1968 Tribute hypocrites at Columbia tried to erase from history.
Cowards and liars censor.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110610205552/http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/1968/
Unfortunately - they're even more unrelateable because Palestine is very very far away from localized interest. It has ZERO to do with police, but I have a feeling this is to aggravate police "abuses" towards socialist protestors. Somenone is expected to screw up in the heat of the budding Summer. They HOPE & PRAY to their dead communist ancestor Karl Marx for another BLM cipher to terrorize the US public as a result. Don't fall for it.
It's giving me ideas.
No doubt. There's more going on than protestors over a war none of these people give a rip about.
You have no idea what I want
Which is why I said "people like you" aka "people making the arguments you are making".
I can only draw conclusions given the information I'm given.
If you'd like to be more specific about what you want, then feel free to do that.
The Jews in Israel are not descended from colonists, they were, themselves, refugees... the European ones from Russian pogroms and then the aftermath of the Holocaust when their former countries refused to let them back (there were pogroms in Poland in 1946), the later and more numerous ones were expelled from Muslim MENA countries after 1948.
The Palestinian Arabs have been dealt a very bad hand, for sure, and Israel has done some reprehensible things.
But the world was awash in refugees after World War 2, and only 1 group was refused help by its own people--the Arab countries without exception refused to accept the Palestinians who were displaced in 1948-49. Ten million Germans had to leave the new borders of Poland, and Germany took them in. Many more Muslims left the new predominantly Hindu state of India, and a like number of Hindus left the new Muslim state of Pakistan, and in both cases they were accepted by their co-religionists. People who had been slave laborers for the Nazis trekked across Europe to get home, and all but the Jews were accepted.
The Palestinians were rejected by their own, Arab, people.
Yes, Israel has done some bad things, but don't get all high and mighty about where the initial problem began. This is COMPLICATED, and settler colonialism has nothing to do with it..
Well said
No they are definitely morons. And the police acted appropriately. Tents were a clearly defined red line. They have a right to protest they do not have a right to occupy.
The 'Palestinians' are not a country or a people with a home. They're a terrorist organization. Period. There is no Muslim country in the area that wants them or will allow them to seek refuge in their country because of this. Only the Israeli's tried to give them a place to live if they would only be peaceful. The Israeli's even let many of them come into their country to work and feed their families, but again their generosity was repaid with terror attacks. The Palestinians plot, plan, and store their ammunition in tunnels under their schools and hospitals. Incinerating the entire place will finally bring peace to the Middle East
"US settler colonialist propaganda", says the person completely indoctrinated with Marxist propaganda.
Perhaps it is time to think for yourself, to look beyond various dogma and really see the world and humanity for what it is.
Wake the F up.
lol, they're indoctrinated by the fools teaching them that up is down, DEI is good and the world is divided into oppressed and oppressors.
Sounds like it sucks to be you
You can truthfully make the same statement about our Congress, recent Presidents and much of our DC Bureaucracy!
The students have the same constitutional First Amendment rights as any Americans: "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." As SCOTUS has noted repeatedly "Hate Speech is Free Speech".
I rarely agree with everything anyone says, but right or wrong, they have that right to speak, to protest.
I absolutely agree, but as Stephen points out below, it wouldn't be OK if it was anti-Black, Confederate Flag, etc...
For me, the issue isn't their right to speech, it's not disbursing when their assemblies are unlawful, it's assaulting and intimidating others (Jewish students in this case), it's damaging property that isn't theirs. Raising one's voice in protest and feeling self-righteous does not give one license to make their own rules.
Imagine that hate speech were coming from Trump tards? The national press would be handling it the same, calling it free speech? Would you?
Go back to Israel.
Never been there, though I've been to several Arab neighbor countries and lived in the Middle East. I'd like to go someday.
Don’t worry Bird Brain, there’s gonna be an Exodus this summer from Racket & you can do Zionist Circle Jerks all day .
Why are you here then? Is you daddy paying you subscription? You would literally not last a day in my orbit spouting your nonsense. You are the useful idiots that the new ruling class comes into power with and who are then are lined up and shot.
History won't repeat itself. You and your comrades will be disposed of before that happens.
They don’t like genocide
Hamas loves Martyrs. If it where truly genocide it would have been over in January.
They just like genocide.
The free speech aspect is important, although it is hard to argue protesters have the legal right to form encampments, in areas not designated for camping. When asked to disperse, and protesters refuse, are the police suppose to call it a day, and head home?
The question no one seems to be asking, is what makes American college kids, especially young women, dress in clothing, clearly designed to subjugate them, and scream "DieJew Die", and Go Back to Poland". They clearly have the right to say vile things, but why on earth are they spewing such hate, having been raised in one of the most diverse nations, the world has ever known?
They no longer seem, to even feign concern, for starving Palestinian children. No one is collecting canned goods, or volunteering to visit the area ,and offer aid. Shouting "Hamas Forever", in no way helps Palestine, since it is inarguable, the IDF would not be in Gaza , but for the Hamas, Oct 7 attack.
Israelis left Gaza nearly 2 decades ago. Other than picking up the tab , for much of Palestinian life, Palestinians rule themselves. They chose Hamas.
Moreover, where were the protesters when Syria was killing Palestinians by the hundred thousand? Children are dying in the Sudan, by the tens of thousands, but then it is tough to blame the Jews, for their deaths. Free speech is very important. Using it to hide antisemitism, is legal, but hardly something to cheer.
Israel did not “leave Gaza decades ago” but ruled it as a colony, a source of cheap labor and any protest to demand autonomy was met with violence. It’s completely disingenuous to pretend Gaza had even the barest right of self determination. A blockade on the Mediterranean? Only three Israeli entrances closely monitored by Israel? All utilities controlled by Israel? Before October 7th, one of the ministers publicly announced it was “putting Gaza on a diet.” What does that tell you?
What we’re seeing on campuses is hopeful. Young people who want a world that doesn’t justify cruelty, starvation of children, control of the media or distortion of history. What is rarely reported are the number of Jewish students participating. They understand Never Again means the endless wars of the twentieth century should mean never again.
If that's what young people want, they should be protesting the mullahs who fund Hamas and use the Palestinians to advance their empire, and they don't fund Hamas because they love Palestinians, or care about the women and children being used as human shields. On the contrary.
Right now, I think they just want the bombs to stop falling.
They weren't falling on 10/6.
Don’t we all. But it’s never that simple.
Wow, talk about missing major historical points on Israel.
It's not a colony, and was for many years "self ruled" by whatever the Islamic terror flavor of the day wins the day. Lately it's Hamas; before it was the PLO and Black September, and the PA and the...well, you get the point I hope. Since day one the Arabs in the area designated as Palestine refused to allow Jews a place to call home - even after they *purchased*, not stole or colonized - the land the wanted as theirs.
I'm not going to regurgitate decades of direct assaults on Jews by the likes of Hamas (Munich, anyone?) but your failure to even acknowledge the fact that the Israelis have any reason to have resorted to containment is sad, at best.
These students are bored and have nothing to protest since the US is a pretty good place to live when things get squirrelly on the global stage. So they pick an avowed genocidal terrorist group to achieve maximum shock effect. I've not heard of one of them traveling to Gaza to fight for Hamas.
Do some research before posting flame bait.
"purchased" from whom?
Once Israel pulled every last Jew out of Gaza, the Gazans chose Hamas to rule them. Hamas at no point has ever demanded "autonomy," as you put it. Gaza already had that as of 2005. What Hamas has demanded and openly so is the elimination of Israel entirely. Israel has kept tight control over the border with Gaza (not all that tight as October 7 revealed) solely because Hamas, instead of working out a way of co-existing with Israel, began firing rockets by the thousands at Israel. You have to be utterly blind not to understand that. Otherwise, Israel admitted thousands from Gaza to work in Israel and kept open all kinds of supplies into Gaza (as the concrete wasted on 300 miles of tunnels alone attests). Your depiction is a cartoon caricature of a fantasy.
I am not a supporter of Hamas as you would attempt to prove and your spin on history does not take into account the “tight control” included firing on defenseless civilians, children and regulating the food supply, utilities and access to clean water. In your own community, does the city closest to you have the right to restrict your movements, destroy greenhouses to grow your own food, cut off roads with armed guards and provide no opportunity remove these restrictions? This has been brewing for years and both sides are going for broke it looks like to me. Based on your comment, you believe Israel is justified in its current assault and its’ past history is not a factor. I disagree.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The city closest to me is Lansing, MI, I am in East Lansing. Lansing has fired no rockets over at us, as near as I can tell, so neither city has seen fit to restrict one another. Imagine! As for "firing on defenseless children," yes, Hamas surely did that on October 7. Israel has killed children since because Hamas does everything it can to ensure they will be in the line of fire -- despite all that Israel does to minimize this. As for destroying greenhouse, you have got to be kidding. When Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, it left an entire industry of them intact. It was HAMAS that then proceeded to destroy them!
I was using that strictly as an example and not to be taken literally. Nowhere in America are our movements as restricted as have been the Palestians in Gaza. There are numerous accounts of children shot or maimed by the IDF, documented by the UN. We can not agree on facts and this, in a nutshell, is where the discussion goes. I have not convinced you to consider reviewing the history and you have not convinced me to ignore it.
Maybe we can agree on this — no more killing. A ceasefire and international peacekeepers.
Gazans aren't citizens of Israel. It was the Gazans that worked in Israel that helped the barbarism of 10/7 to take place. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them anymore. I did a year ago but not anymore. I feel badly for the 20% of them that just want to get on with life, but the majority of them support hamas. It's why none of the other Arab countries want anything to do with them.
I live about 150 miles from the Mexican border. I cannot cross without showing my papers. Mexico cleans their own water, grows their own food. As Gaza should have done and were doing for the most part. instead they built 500 miles of tunnels. The moronic waste of all of that money that was given to them to build was used to do this.
Since we are not posing a security threat to our neighboring communities they don't need to expend the effort to prevent that.
Sorry to correct you SW but Israel did in fact leave Gaza to the inhabitants long ago, then they elected Hamas to rule them, the rest since that time is a sad history.
They did not leave Gaza as an independent state and you know that. There was a blockade into the Mediterranean, no airport for the Palestinians to fly to other countries and the border was controlled by Israel. Do you deny that? Even Israel’s own ministers called it an open air prison.
Ah hem… Egypt?
You're denying reality in the same way the protestors on campuses are. You don't want to confront the reality that Gazans in large part support Hamas.
Why blockades? Because they didn't want Gaza importing material that might be used to create a security threat against Israel.
Uh huh.
If the college students are so gullible, radical, ignorant, and uninformed—and historically illiterate—how did they get into college in the first place? Because they’re stupid and lack critical thinking skills?
As children the first thing we understand is unfairness. As we mature we understand injustice. This is why the protests are not confined to American universities, they are taking place around the globe.
Do you maintain that Hamas and/or the Arabs we now refer to as Palestinians pose no threat to Israel?
Of course they do. They are a lethal threat to each other at this point and the only chance of a solution I can see is a permanent ceasefire with an international peace keeping force that does not include Americans or Israelis. Do I think this will happen? No I don’t and I don’t know how it will end. But the first step has to be a ceasefire and aid to Palestinians. No child should starve to death over a piece of land.
There was a ceasefire on 10/6.
All the deaths of 10/7 and since are the responsibility of Hamas who doesn't want a two state solution or any solution with Israel. Ever. They have stated and continue to stated in words and action they want all Jews dead. so please tell us all what should the Jews do?
I worry that what the education system most lacks today is nuance. So many issues are seen as black and white, oppressed/victim and oppressor/perpetrator. The extreme over-reaction to ideas that fall outside the orthodoxies is a type of sickness that fuels distorted thinking. In the real world circumstances are rarely,if ever that simple. It’s the lack of nuance that disturbs me.
There's no nuance in occupation or genocide. And I find that these students, many of whom are jewish, are flatly against Zionism. They know the history of the Holocaust and the Nakba. It seems to me "Ideas that fall outside the orthodoxy" are precisely what are needed. I've seen more than my share of foolish wars in my lifetime. And when our tax dollars continue to flow towards atrocities and vicious wars (everywhere) I stand with the students, and Peace. Everyone- even Bibi- knows this isn't a winnable situation. But it will play out. And we will continue to babble about the rights and wrongs. We can be a vicious species. this isn't a winnable situation. But it will play out. And we will continue to babble about the rights and wrongs. We can be a vicious species. But we choose. Moment to moment. It's on US.
Gosh, these students don’t seem to be for Peace.
So you agree that the Palestinian expressed desire to commit genocide against Israel would be wrong then?
Different from events in Gaza now which, though horrific, quite obviously reflect no intent of extermination of a certain population (genocide) but just the side effect of trying to eliminate forces that hide under civilians.
Meantime many people in Israel are opposed to the settlements in the West Bank and opposed to Netanyahu's government.
And regarding occupation observe what happened after Israel withdrew from Gaza and Hamas took the opportunity to create infrastructure to attack Israel.
And note that the Palestinians could not make it work living in Jordan despite that land being allocated to them. Whereas vastly more people were relocated in the India/Pakistan split but Pakistanis aren't insisting they return to India nor is the opposite occurring.
This is a tragic occurrence and one can argue in good faith about whether Israel has made the correct choices here. I don't think you can fairly ignore the complexity, the nuances, of the situation.
Your conclusions vary from my own. I am not some nut job. There may be complexity, to which Israel has contributed mightily. Even some Holocaust survivors and their descendants disagree on the path forward. The Balfour Declaration and the history of colonization before it is complicated. But ethnic cleansing isn't. It's in the very definition of the establishment of Israel, and has been reiterated and celebrated since its inception. The Nakba happened. How are any people to respond to such an invasion? Ok, see ya? Hope you enjoy my former home? Zionists have repeatedly broken every accord, expanding settlements, claiming more land, been the refuseniks. It's ludicrous to think 1. The US hasn't done the same and 2. That the former inhabitants wouldn't rebel. I don't think it's my sources that are wrong. I just think we have opposing world views.
These nut jobs can yell and hollar all they want. But they expose themselves as frauds for saying nothing about hostages, the ceasefire that existed on 10/5 but was broken by the Gaza government and murdered, raped, tortured and kidnapped the very people that were most welcoming to Gazans. The stupidity of these protestors is breathtaking.
Many? Like one or two?
Yeah, actually. See: Jewish Voice for Peace, for starters. I've been watching interviews and coverage from across the US and the globe. BTW, Zionism, amongst Orthodox, Reform & Hassidim, isn't universal. Ya know. Like MANY people: Jews are not homogeneous.
There are examples of self loathing people everywhere; so what.
Were you ever young?
It has less to do with blaming the Jews, than with the fact that American taxpayers are on the hook for $4B annually for Israel, PLUS an additional $14B for this war. We are indirectly responsible for Israel's slaughter of civilians, because we fund it, so yes, many of us oppose this.
As compared to $60 billion for the Biden family money laundering scheme?
Oh, I forgot, your side doesn’t want to talk about that.
What does that have anything to do with anything?
Both can be bad you absolute dimwit, but not everything is about everything else.
Sorry, I thought there was a principle involved. My mistake.
So they need to put "defund ukraine" on the back of their "defund israel" sign and constantly spin it around so you can see both?
It's a goofy argument, get serious.
I dunno, it works for me.
I oppose all foreign aid, on "principle."
My "side"???!
I'm voting for Trump, honey.
Get out of your bubble.
No, the USA are helping defend a democracy against genocidal manics (self described)
I find it fascinating the extent to which these talking points are repeated ad nauseam by Israel's apologists. And the endless victimhood claims of antiSemitism from the people performing the genocide in Gaza and the Gestapo ops on the West Bank, or cheering them on.
Let me start with the Syria talking point. The US does not provide the funding and arms to Syria to kill anyone, nor to Sudan. Simple. Done.
Hamas has not held an election since they first took power in the election. In short, they turned themselves into dictators. Israel, on the other hand, has elected far more murderous and terrorist governments for decades now, in open elections.
And - Israel "left" Gaza, but has held it in virtual siege since then. Israel decides everything about Gaza from outside it. And Israel has had a policy of periodically doing what their racist, vicious govt calls "mowing the grass" - ie destroying infrastructure.
And now Israel has destroyed every university, medical facility and govt site, has deliberately targeted and killed health care workers, journalists, civic administrators etc etc, and its govt has openly declared that starving Palestinians is its goal. Which it is carrying out, while also using heaviy munitions to slaughter indiscriminately, and snipers to amuse themselves killing civilians including children. While it amps up its Gestapo ops on the West Bank 100x.
The Nazi state of Israel in full view. Cheered on by far too many Brownshirts in the US.
So my question is - where did Israeli Jews and so many Zionist Jews and Zionists in general find the hate to morph into Nazis? Because they have.
Amen!
Your question about young women, allegedly educated, signing onto this movement is important. Is it true that in Iran a protest movement erupted in that theocratic regime because a young women was killed for not being properly scarved? I am ashamed of these women protesters. I really am.
Too bad they weren’t the homeless. No one would have bothered them no matter where they camped.
@Ronda Ross. You clearly didn't watch the video. It was 20 college students chanting, and I didn't hear a single instance of "DieJ**Die" or "got back to Poland".
You talk about collecting "canned goods" or "visiting the area"--you do realize that aid is not being allowed (especially outside aid) and the press isn't allowed into Gaza, much less random people who just want to "visit"
And people have been raising concerns about Sudan since the crisis there started. The DIFFERENCE (and why people in the US are so upset this time) is that the US DOES NOT FUND THE VARIOUS MILITARY/REBEL FACTIONS OF SUDAN WITH US TAX DOLLARS!! And again, with Syria...the US DOES NOT SEND TO US TAX DOLLARS TO FUND THE SYRIAN MILITARY!!!--in fact, if you recall, the US actually funded the rebel groups there.
The very fact you cannot understand why young people might feel this way says a lot about.
Hey, @MattTaibbi I've been here since you left RS and started the Substack. I have to say I am becoming increasing disappointed with audience you seem to be attracting--there is a serious lack of intellectual curiosity going on.
Even looking at the YT comments for the video in this piece: it's just a bunch of people saying the 20-25 kids deserved to be gassed and arrested for chanting on a college lawn. The vibe here is really attracting some weird people. Finally had to say something.
Very well stated.
I watched the whole video clip. Nowhere did anyone say "DieJew Die," "Go Back to Poland" or "Hamas Forever." What they said was "end the occupation" "end genocide" ceasefire now" "Palestine will be free" and similar things. You're either lying or you're not actually listening to the protests.
Also they said "from the river to the sea" which is be definition, a declaration of genocide of all Jews living in that region.
No, it is not "by definition" a declaration of genocide in any way, shape, or form. It's an aspirational statement, like "and crown thy good, with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea." Some people who've used that phrase may have had genocidal intentions (like the Likud party in Israel, with it's charter saying there will only be Jewish sovereignty from the Jordan to the sea), but most people who are chanting it on US campuses want equal rights and dignity for Palestinians AND Jewish people "from the river to the sea." Calling that phrase "genocidal" is the most McCarthyite thing I've seen, among many, in this conflict.
You are ignorant and misinformed. It is a call for ethnic cleansing (i.e. murder) of all Jews in the Levant. Learn to do a little research.
Learn to think for yourself instead of swallowing propaganda whole and repeating it in hateful ways. I am in favor of equal human rights and dignity for people of all religions, from the river to the sea. So are most of the Jewish people I know.
It’s interesting that “Jews will not replace us,” a chant that is antisemitic on its face, doesn’t raise the same kind of alarm for the people who are so eager to condemn people who want peace and freedom for everyone through a particular interpretation of a poetic phrase (guilt by word association).
Help me (us) Ronda, help help me (us) Ronda….
I appreciate the on-the-scene video...but unless I completely missed something, calling this minor, tepid confrontation "heavy handed" use of "heavy police force" is quite a stretch.
I found a video of UCLA with a “viewer discretion” warning.
It was the most anodyne video I’ve seen in this genre. I’ve seen video of teenager girl fights much more violent.
I’ll pay for one of these people to travel to Gaza to “fight.” One condition: constant live feed from a constantly worn Go Pro so I can watch the results.
Yeah, I saw it as a mostly orderly demonstration. The primary mrssage seemed to be calling for a ceasefire.
This is so invaluable just having less edited footage without the need to contextualize everything. Nice that we still have on ground journalism through efforts like this.
Funny when you notice that the “protesters” all have the same brand new REI tents. Then you realize they’re organized by people funded through Arrabella to hide the fact that George Soros is funding them! Add to that the billions Middle Eastern countries have been allowed to spend on our universities and the utter elimination of academic rigor in favor of grade inflation and gender studies degrees. The Right was correct to point this out in the 80s and 90s when I ridiculed them for being “Jesus lovers”. Now we have a completely medieval college system geared towards producing scholars of Marxist theology. We’ve come full circle.
Good to see someone paying attention. Now if we can get the rest of the masses to realize the issue they are protesting every time (because it is many of the same people no matter of it is Gaza or BLM or climate change) is never the real issue and is instead a mechanism for neo-Bolshevik revolution we might actually save western society from destroying itself.
Totally agree! And I read this quote the other from Vlad Lenin (I might not get it exactly right): Let me teach your children for 4 years and I will have planted the seed that will never be uprooted."
A good book on this topic is "The Marxification of Education" by James Lindsay. They have been STRIVING for this for decades, yet even noticing what they proudly proclaim is considered tin-hattism...
Interesting piece:
https://www.konstantinkisin.com/p/how-marxism-subverted-america?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=746128&post_id=144318459&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=76zs3&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
You have to love the irony of “Jewish Voice for Peace” which is neither for peace or Jewish. Shades of “Moral Majority” oxymoronic nonsense.
Love your screen name BTW.
Not full circle in the realm of universities in the U.S. - rather it's a linear direction toward Marxist ideology. For example, Harvard's original motto: Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae. So it wasn't just the "Right" in the 80s and 90s who were "Jesus lovers," but the original builders of the universites dating back to the 1600s. It has been a steady decline away from being focused on Christianity and the search for truth, first into secular humanism, and now onward to Marxism, all while engaging in the pretense of being more "enlightened." "Full circle" would entail a return to the Univesities' Christian roots. I'm not holding my breath.
Sadly free speech has suddenly become important to these students. This is exactly why upholding the speech rights of those you disagree most with matters. censorship and authoritarianism can and will be used against you.
But on campus, doesn't the code of conduct trump free speech? Misgendering, etc. should be free speech, but it's definitely not. And of course free speech doesn't protect students when they veer off into trespassing and smashing windows. How many millions of dollars is this costing?
Of I agree. Cancel culture, intolerance towards different viewpoints, safetyism have all been birthed in the Academy. The number of academics and thinkers chased off campus for holding unpopular views is part of a regular school week now. How these protesters are shocked when their speech isn’t tolerated is really something to witness. What a toxic environment that’s been created and the snake is devouring its tail. Hoisting the Palestinian flag is really the icing on this insane cake. If I was a lawmaker, I’d leave the encampments and only engage when there was vandalism etc. I would deploy the police force to provide protective service for Jewish students and directly bill the administration for the cost. These institutions have indoctrinated whole generations and created the vapid intellectual climate for this. Taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook but rather their generous endowment funds.
Wouldn't it be better to encourage the complete destruction of those universities, such that no one would botter applying to attend those "schools" in the future?
I’m not into destruction. Let the market decide. Let better institutions be born and be fully meritocratic and let the best and brightest flock there and the best companies hire. It takes more time, sure, but the Left’s game is destruction and nihilism. I’m not interested in that game plus they’ve perfected it. Let the alternative be the beacon.
Hey, just trying to extend the irony to its logical conclusion - let the "protesters" destroy all the campus buildings to make the universities into the physical manifestations of that which they already are: worthless constructs pretending to be institutions of higher learning.
The fundamental problem with all of these protests is summed up nicely by that young woman speaking into the megaphone at the end: "We're protesting Palestine being occupied illegally!" She is ignorant of the facts, as are most of the protesters and their supporters. There was no occupation of Gaza from 2004 until they invaded Israel and murdered 1200 people. And it's telling how all these protesters conveniently overlook that giant wall erected by Egypt along its entire border with Gaza. The only reason for any confinement of either Gaza or the West Bank is because of their insatiable appetite for violence directed at Israel. Their predicament is entirely due to their own hostility and unwillingness to coexist. And in this attitude they have been aided and abetted for 75 years by the UN. Unfortunately, Israel and the American Jewish community (including AIPAC and ADL) have done little to nothing to educate the public about the facts and refute the false narrative. The narrative has been too focused on remembering the holocaust and insufficiently attentive to the dynamics of today.
That's your interpretation. I don't dare bring up Dr. Finkelstein. I'm trying to think: how long were indigenous people warring with the colonists and settlers in the US? Oh. Wait. But we "gave" them some land. And they have tribal rules. And we NEVER break a treaty. This line of revisionist thinking is archaic. Humanity needs to get it together. And wars and tribalism isn't gonna get us to peace. For anyone. Also, this madness with Zionism is placing Judaism and Jews at higher risk across the world.
Says the Misanthrope who lives on stolen land.
It's hard to find any history of humanity that doesn't involve one people conquering another people and taking their land. To say that whoever "originally" lived somewhere should "own" that land forever is a losing argument simply because of its unworkability. By that thinking everyone in the world would have to move out save for a few forgotten tribes deep in the jungles of Asia and South America. It's time to give up the idea that "settler colonialism" is something to be angry about and we should all give land "back" to its "rightful owners". Maybe I'm overly paranoid and suspicious, but I think most people talking about "settler colonialism" are either (a) looking for the latest hip issue to attach themselves to in order to feel important or (b) just trying to steal something that belongs to others.
I'm intrigued by your side comment "madness with Zionism" however. What do you mean by madness? And what is your definition of Zionism? If it's "the desire for the Jews to have a homeland", then why is that something that should be debated, and why is a belief in it considered "madness"? Don't the Jews deserve their own homeland just like everyone else? Don't tell me "that land belongs to the Palestinians, so the Jews should leave," because anyone with a 3rd grade education knows better than that. I have yet to hear anyone who thinks that the Palestinians should get all that land to themselves provide a reasonable explanation why. Aren't the Palestinians themselves settlers?
So if the Axis powers had won and we lived in a global Third Reich and all Jews had been killed and Hitler had put a big dent in populations of other non Aryans, you'd be fine with that? If you were Jewish (or any of those other "inferior" types), you'd be dead. So forget I asked.
What’s the point of “civil disobedience” if you don’t get arrested?
Well, to me at least, the point of civil disobedience should be to fight against some unjust situation. Otherwise it's just a waste of everyone's time and creates a lot of hostility and unrest for no good purpose. Here I don't see anyone fighting any unjust situation. They have it completely backwards. What they should be saying is "Hamas has got to go!" Instead they're cheering for the very people who are stealing from the citizens in order to build a war machine, instead of helping them improve their lives.
What's the point of irony in am age when people don't recognize ironic writing?
Sorry, I'm an engineer, these subtleties of human communication oven elude me.
I think all would go home if the Israeli government would just stop slaughtering women and children. It was much quieter on campuses when Israel was just keeping Gazans in an open air prison and stealing land on the West Bank.
Then show some backbone. Take the arrest. Don’t bleat like miniature goats when the police enforce the law that is willfully broken.
Erik, people were cheering on October 8th at the thought of slaughtered Jews before any retaliation had begun. You know ‘the resistance” and all that virtuous, benign stuff. Amazing that ‘open air prison’ even had fertility clinics to make sure Gazans who were struggling to have children could conceive. I’m amazed they had money for that sort of thing.
McExpat,
Who was cheering?
What’s the point in denying it? Ffs people were out in the streets in London, Toronto, New York and other major centers cheering the slaughter of Jewish civilians. What did you think resistance looks like y’all? Do you want me to document every goddamn instance globally and who covered it? The gaslighting and obfuscation of the Oct 7 massacre is out of this world. If you want Palestinian women and children to be out of harms way, tell Hamas to surrender and hand back all the hostages dead and alive. There fixed it for you.
I don’t respond to rants like yours. Good bye.
Grab your gates/soros superman lunchbox with the special edition hamas signed kalishnikov and don't forget your 6th booster.
Uncensored is the only way to go.
The minute human beings start to censor each other, we get into big trouble
Thank you, Matt!.
I don't see how it's the right of any student or non student to set up tents on public or private property that is not designated for that. And as others have mentioned, many of these "protestors" only care about their own first amendment rights.
I say give them money and let them go to the West Bank and Gaza and actually see who they are supporting.
This is outside my office. I was not on campus at this time. This is the best coverage of the events I've seen. Much better than local Tampa news. The 3rd protest w/o tents was allowed.
FYI the University of South Florida was where Sami-Al-Arian was a tenured professor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Al-Arian
Very much appreciate the unedited footage vs what you will see on the nightly news or in Twitter clips. What we don't necessarily have is the context around the previous dialogue among protestors, the police, the university administration, etc.
The fact that these brutal police attacks on pro- Palestinian students are happening after Netanyahu called for a crackdown raises the question of who's running this country, us or the Israelis.
It would appear to be the Israelis, which raises the question of how the hell this happened.
The answers, one suspects, involve money and compromising information about US politicians.
Brutal police attacks? I only saw tear gas and people being wrestled out of the crowd. No clubbing, no cracked skulls, no rubber bullets....
By the way, it's hard to tell from the video due to the up close nature, but it looked like ~50 protestors? Of which 10 were arrested? At a university of 49,000 students?
Ten arrested? Brutal crackdown? If you are told to leave and it's not your home --- leave.
BTW, watch the films of the real civil rights marchers: they were hit with fire hoses and police dogs and they got arrested ---- THOSE were the American protesters who set the standard with their dignified response to the horrid treatment they received. And, they won. Their cause was just. Their humanity could not be denied. And they were rightly demanding to be part of America, in full measure.
These protesters are clowns. Cosplay. If I understand that term correctly. They are playing at being virtuous, caring (about certain things), conscientious (about certain things), while at the same time only inferring knowledge about what they are dressing up for. And BTW, they really don't want to be part of that same America, as we know it. These jokers really have no appreciation of what it means, "the land of the free." Hard lesson may be coming.
I was going to write a response but then thought, why bother?
Because you do not have an intelligent response. Biden, directly or indirectly, is berating Bibi every friggin' day to do nothing more that will cost Palestinian lives. Biden is ok with Hamas "battalions" sheltering in Rafa behind civilians as human shields and just waiting to attack Israel again in two or three years once Hamas fighters are beefed up again by Iran. Your comment, by the way, betrays your worldview that the Rothschilds are behind most of the bad things happening to all "oppressed" peoples. And why the heck doesn't Matt allow "dislike" symbols?
Then, its not a big desl.
Oh PUHLEASE. Go back to the shadows Arrabella hack. When do we get to hear your homily about how it’s JUST the Israelis you’re against. Not Jews. Sounds like peak Weimar appeasement.
There is no shortage of money all around influencing decision makers. As much as people rattle on about the Israeli lobby, the billions flowing to higher head from Qatar is eye opening and insane.
No doubt money rolls into politicians' pockets from many sources but pro- Israel donors must certainly be one of the biggest sources.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/congress-member-pro-israel-donations-military-support
AIPAC, btw, is not registered as a foreign agent.
When I talk about money from Qatar to American universities I’m talking about billions of dollars here. Administrators will jump through a lot of egregious hoops to keep that gravy train going and most certainly look the other way when they are a safe haven for terrorists etc. It’s nothing new but in terms of bags of cash, they have it in spades compared to the Jewish lobby.
I recommend you read John Mearsheimer's analysis of the influence of the Israel lobby on the US.
He says our massive support for Israel for decades runs counter to the common sense goal of using foreign policy to advance American interests, which means we put the interests of a foreign state over our own, which makes no sense.
The explanation for this odd situation lies with the power of the Israel lobby, he says.
I find Mearsheimer compelling on other topics. I’m much less moved by his Israel position. I’ve read several things and listened to him on it but it just doesn’t resonate. As for money, let the campuses divest from Israel. If that’s the game these students would like to play shall we open the books on, as previously mentioned, Qatar and let’s not forget bluddy China. Greed and corruption has utterly ruined higher ed in America. I often wonder the end game in Mearsheimer’s brain, pull all support for Israel…..what does that even begin to look like?
It means pursuing a foreign policy that advances US interests.
Israel would no longer be an exception. Perhaps we would come to see that Israel is a liability not an asset for the US.
Please cite The WSJ or National Review to support your point. The Guardian is one of the most left wing major papers in the world so, yes, I'll be close minded and not click on your link. Cheers!
According to Follow the Money, the Israel lobby only donated about seven million to Joe Biden. I’m sure that has not influenced him.
Why wouldn't they though?
🛎️🔨
More specifically, it's the zionists.
Pro-hamas protestors. Don't water down what these clowns are carrying on about.
It tells the story very well. No edits and more footage. When anyone sees this it should have impact. Wish all media outlets would do this.
How well I remember…We were all throwing rocks and burning buildings. Only we weren’t. We threatened cops lives. Only we didn’t.
And of course, we all practiced spitting at returning soldiers. Except we never did. But somehow the narrative never changes. And a girl who gets a careless poke in the head by passing marchers becomes a victim of antisemitism who gets “stabbed in the eye”, and surrounded by a screaming mob.
Still, (true story!), we could all laugh when the Bank of America on Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley protected its glass with plywood as the execs raced to pull the local TV ad which said: ‘Bank of America! There’s a branch just a stones throw away.’
What color is the sky in your world? I suppose we're not to believe the videos of buildings being burned in Portland. Or the Molotov cocktail thrown at police officers in Brooklyn. I joined Racket to have informed discussions with educated people from both sides of the aisle, not to be gaslit.
Well, Seamus, I was talking about 1968. I was also looking out my window as James Rector was gunned down by Alameda Sheriffs during the People’s Park demonstrations. And yesterday was the anniversary of the Kent state murders, and I’ve been around a long time, and I don’t need help remembering my friends bloodied by cops batons, beaten to a pulp with their hands behind their backs, for marching in peace. I don’t know what you think of as gaslighting, but ask Jill Stein what it feels like. Her memory of getting beaten is more recent and, no, I guess cops have not reformed yet.
Yeah, Sera is right on this one Seamus. She’s just trying to tell you not to fall for the propaganda put out by those in power.
Sarah, I was there way back when, too. I was in the Marine Corps. Didn’t like being calling a “baby killer,” but the kids had it right about Vietnam. And the treatment of them,then, is all but identical to the treatment these kids are getting now. In the main the kids are just saying stop the bloodshed. A little on the zealous side at times, but the main message is what is important.
Really. It's just like VN when you were in the Corps being called a baby killer, and these kids not subject to the draft or personal hygiene for that matter --- but it's just like back then, and they just want to stop the bloodshed. Whose? Israeli women who were viciously raped and killed?
Why all the masking? Who is paying for this? And this got organized throughout the US (and the world, for that matter) pretty quickly, didn't it?
This has not a thing in common with the protests in the 60s, except maybe the organizers being just fine with the take-down of the US of A.
"A little zealous." A little stupid. Vapid. Shallow. Entitled. Etc.
BTW, what is the "main message?" It's hard to understand through the PLO scarf without a bullhorn.
Thank you Erik, most of us were mad at the government, not the soldiers. We were trying to save soldiers’ lives too, and, for the record, no one I ever knew spit on anyone coming back from hell.
Erik, I agree with you (and with Sera to a degree). We have to be vigilant about those in power and it's clear that the government has abused its power tremendously over the years, from the top (Vietnam, Iraq) to the bottom (police abuse). What I was objecting to was Sera's denial that any of the protestor actions even happened ("And of course, we all practiced spitting at returning soldiers. Except we never did."), which you yourself refute in your post when you note that you were called a baby killer. I'm not disputing that "the kids had it right about Vietnam"; my hope is that the conversation in this comment section start from an honest, open POV rather than denial of fact - i.e. the gaslighting I was referencing.
No problem. By definition, you can't have debates without disagreeing. I don't know if Sera was intentionally gaslighting, however. I see that some podcast news outlets are saying the same thing. She might have based her belief on that.
Also, I agree with her that the protests should not be characterized as violent and antisemitic. I'm sure to some lesser extent they are, but from what I can tell most students are peaceful (though loud) and would go home if there were a ceasefire or if our leaders would stop sending bombs to be used on Palestinians.
Thanks for your comments. I look forward to more. I'm quite disturbed about the killing, here, especially our nation's involvement in it. Reading and responding to comments gives me a way to both learn and vent.
I appreciate that. I think part of the problem is in the nature of the comment forum. It operates in black and white. I was being quite truthful when I said that “we didn’t throw rocks” etc. but of course some did, and that’s why they boarded up the banks. And maybe some did spit and insult the soldiers, but I was part of what I believe was the majority who preferred to put flowers into the barrels of soldiers’ rifles. I do believe that it was we, the nonviolent, who had the most effect. And don’t forget about the infiltration of ‘Agents provocateurs’. The FBI were at event there was, and they know their business.
In any case, never hesitate to call me out, I am always open to cordial debate, and best wishes.
I assume the B of A in Berkeley, was simply trying prevent a repeat of what happened at UCSB,where the local branch was burnt to the ground
Now you know that didn't happen...LOL
Don't know if this is what Doug Taylor was talking about but a B of A branch was burned in 1970 by protesters. Here you go if you want to read it: https://www.independent.com/2016/01/24/burning-bank-legacy/
I was joking..(^_^)