Transcript - America This Week, August 16, 2024: "Press Renounces Itself For the Party"

News media declares: candidates don't need to answer our questions. Plus, "Eve's Diary," by Mark Twain.

Matt Taibbi: All right. Welcome to America This Week. I’m Matt Taibbi.

Walter Kirn: And I’m Walter Kirn.

Matt Taibbi: Walter, what’s going on?

Walter Kirn: I’m enjoying the election season surge and everything good. I see that inflation is down, stock market, despite that conspicuous stumble, is just soaring again. Crime, violent crime I learned from the White House is at a 50-year low. My response was I guess they can unlock the toothbrushes at Walgreens then. And I just-

Matt Taibbi: What a bitter thing for you to say, Walter.

Walter Kirn: I know. I’m going to be the anti-joy guy. I know it. And it’s not something I want to be, it’s not something I trained to be. It’s just my temperament versus the spirit of the age.

Matt Taibbi: Right. Right. Well, you’re resisting the popular will in this direction.

Walter Kirn: Yes. Yeah.

Matt Taibbi: As you discovered this week, there actually is a precedent for enforced joy.

Walter Kirn: Right.

Matt Taibbi: What’s the German on this? Can we look at the emblem for the joy brigade?

Walter Kirn: Oh yeah.

Matt Taibbi: Here it is. Strength through joy.

Walter Kirn: Yes.

Matt Taibbi: Kraft durch Freude.

Walter Kirn: Yes.

Matt Taibbi: I’m sure I’m saying that wrong.

Walter Kirn: That’s okay. Sounds good and chewy and German when you put it that way.

Matt Taibbi: Yeah. And so the basic idea, this is a Nazi department whose concept was to fill society with so much joy and so many promiscuous public displays of happiness that it would crowd out the other bad ideas and toxins.

Walter Kirn: Right. Exactly. If you were concerned about hyperinflation, say, or other frustrations, you would be relieved of those bad feelings by things like cheap vacations, discounted concerts of popular musicians, hikes, and outings. People forget that Hitler was a huge proponent of healthy outdoor activities.

Matt Taibbi: Mm-hmm.

Walter Kirn: But anyway, back to the joy thing. I said on Monday that there was something creepy to me about the joy slogan, and I couldn’t put my finger on it. And a friend of mine from Czechoslovakia said, “Well, that was Hitler’s big department of good feelings.” It was a huge department, actually. It even at one point promised to deliver very inexpensive automobiles on credit to all German workers, a promise that was forestalled by the war, by the beginning of the war.

But in any case, joy as an instrument of state sedation or enforced exhilaration as a tool of state power were really quite advanced under the Nazi regime. And is there a connection? Well, I mean, we’re all Hitler these days in politics, and so if you can find any connection to Hitler, let alone one as robust as this, I think it’s your responsibility to bring it forward.

Matt Taibbi: Well, I think the ultimate end goal of all media in America is a presidential campaign that’s Hitler versus Hitler, and we’re pretty close to being able to market that. The Trumpian version of this is not joy, but winning. You could imagine a department of winning or a department of so much winning. Maybe. It’s just not the same mechanized come on that it is on the Democratic side. It’s so clearly like a Madison Avenue campaign. Trump, it came out of his head and then they sort of build it up and sell T-shirts to it, but they’re both-

Walter Kirn: See, Trump has never been convincing to me as a proto-fascist leader because if you read the Wikipedia entry that you just put up about strength through joy, it really reminds you that Nazism, true fascism, was a deeply collectivist enterprise. It was all about doing things together and the people’s mind and will combining and fusing and enthusiastic support of things. And it wasn’t just rallies of exuberant supporters, it was real regimented, collective team activity. And we forget the socialism part of Nazism, and I can see it coming someday, maybe. Pickleball championships in every town for party members.

Matt Taibbi: Lenin was a big believer. He was a hiker too.

Walter Kirn: Oh, really?

Matt Taibbi: An alpinist.

Walter Kirn: An alpinist.

Matt Taibbi: Yeah. He liked his exercise. And the collective instinct that, yeah, I would say it’s definitely stronger on the D side, but there are certainly elements of something on the other side, but as we’ve talked about, that’s more cult of personality.

So as we’re recording this, we’re in the middle of... Every eight seconds of this campaign has a new theme to it. The one we’re currently in is this idea that the candidate, either the vice president or a candidate for the presidency does not have to talk to the media. And that would be interesting if it came from politicians, but it’s coming sort of from the media. Slowly. We should point that out, that there are some holdouts still on some of these Japanese islands.

Walter Kirn: Who still believe that the activities that are the foundation of their employment should continue.

Matt Taibbi: But the movement has started. It’s already afoot. Let’s listen to Lawrence O’Donnell since he’s sort of... He was one of the people who helped start this.

Lawrence O’Donnell: One of the Harris-Walz campaign slogans now is, we’re not going back. But we just went back today. We went back nine years in the press coverage of the campaign, the media coverage. Donald Trump gets credit from the people he lied to today for lying to them. They appreciate it. Reporters understandably and incorrectly believe that the most important thing a candidate can do is answer their questions, but they don’t know what an answer actually is. Words spoken after their question marks are not necessarily answers and are never answers when they come from Donald Trump.

There are rumblings in the news media now about Kamala Harris as a presidential candidate not doing what Donald Trump did today, stand up in front of reporters and take their questions, and some of the tinier minds in the news media continue to give credit to Donald Trump for standing up and lying in response to every single question they ask. A lie is not an answer. Donald Trump never answers reporters’ questions. Never. Anyone in the news media who tells you that Donald Trump has answered reporters’ questions and Kamala-

Matt Taibbi: Okay. We get it. We know where he’s coming from. Let’s listen to Michael Steele, the former RNC chairman who essentially says that are reporter interviews really needed?

Michael Steele: I want to shift gears a little bit on this one because what has struck me since Donald Trump’s press conference is the highbrow nature of the press coming at Kamala Harris saying, well, she... In my view, whining, that she doesn’t talk to us. She hasn’t done a sit down with us. She hasn’t done interviews with us. And I watched that press conference and I go, “Well, when you start actually asking real questions of Donald Trump and pressing him, then that sort of creates a space of balance.”

But then I look at polling. You have the New York Times CNN poll showing Harris versus Trump in battleground states, Michigan she’s up by four, 50, 46, Pennsylvania up by four, 50, 46, and in Wisconsin up by four, 50, 46. All of that’s within the margin of error. So at one point you say strategically, “Why do I need to talk to you right now? I’m talking to the American people and we’re having a conversation. You’re happy to follow it and to report on it.” How do you think the campaign balance is going forward? And you know she’s going to sit down at some point, but right now, is there a real need for her to sort of get the imprimatur of the press on her campaign-

Matt Taibbi: Okay. All right. Yeah, I think we get that. And so this is how these things start. Somebody sort of raises the question, “Hey, do we really need to ask candidates questions?” Then we had POLITICO. You can see this POLITICO headline, Why Harris Isn’t Taking Questions, and it’s POLITICO’s West Wing Playbook, and it starts off with a reference to the movie Bull Durham, where it’s talking about Crash Davis giving the advice to Nuke LaLoosh, who was played brilliantly by Tim Robbins, that you never mess with a streak. There’s a different word in there. And then later on there’s another scene. We might as well just show it because it’s an iconic movie scene where Crash Davis, the catcher, is explaining to Susan Sarandon in the movie that you never mess with a streak.

Video: You are full of shit.

Because Nuke’s chastity was your idea.

I know. I’m telling you-

I never-

... just keep your hands out is what I’m telling-

I never told him to stay out of your bed.

Oh yes, you did. You most certainly did.

I never told him to stay out of your bed.

Yes, you did.

I told him that a player on a streak has to respect the streak.

Oh, fine.

You know why? Because they don’t happen very often.

Right.

Do you believe he’s playing well, because you’re getting laid or-

Matt Taibbi: All right. All right. So this is the metaphor-

Walter Kirn: Bad acting there.

Matt Taibbi: She’s in the holes. She’s up in the polls and because of that, she’s on a streak. Don’t mess with a streak. So the metaphor is make sure you’re using the same bat, turn your hat backwards the same way you did before practice yesterday and keep the same routine and don’t talk to the media because you just don’t mess with a streak. What do you think about that, Walter?

Walter Kirn: Well, may I dissect this frog? First of all, the confession of self-loathing by the press is welcome development. They know they’re shit and now they’re happily confessing it as an excuse for their favorite candidate not to speak to them. That’s, like I say, candor. But how does Lawrence O’Donnell think it makes sense that if Trump lies to the press, there’s no reason for Harris, who would presumably tell the truth, to talk to them. I don’t get that. He implied that reporters are too stupid to know when they’re being lied to by Trump at least, but would they not be refreshingly happy to find Harris, the truth teller, in their interview seat?