He was a summer intern for Vice President Spiro Agnew.
He wormed his way deep into power on the Project for a New American Century. Does anyone remember that Project run by Robert Kagan, the spouse of Victoria Newland?
10/20/25: And until it became true, it was also a proposition that was promptly filed under "Impossible." Then... That Guy came along, much to the amazement of the marine biologists who had proven, or so they thought, that that specific sea snake species has gone extinct 200 years earlier..
Two savages out for Russian blood no matter the cost in Ukrainian soldiers be it 10 killed to kill a Russian or even 20 to kill a Russian. The cold war never ended for a lot of people in power in this country.
10/20/25: Anything connected to Victoria (The Whale) Newland is radioactive.
--- "DOJ says he prepared to transmit secrets before day one. Years later, his private email was apparently hacked by Iran."
"I was hacked" would be a very convenient alibi for someone who for whatever reason wanted that information to "be hacked" and in the hands of the intended receiver, would it not?
(Apparently, it works, so if the NY Jets Quarterback this coming Sunday has any interest in passes being received, he might want to look into this technique.)
John Bolton has always styled himself as a modern Theodore Roosevelt — the mustache, the bluster, the talk of moral courage and American grit. But peel back the posture and you get something closer to a wussy Teddy Roosevelt, a desk warrior who mistakes chest-thumping for conviction. The big stick is just a pen, the charge up the hill replaced by a sprint to the publisher’s office. Beneath the bravado lies a bureaucrat who weaponized patriotism for profit.
Anyone who has ever worked with classified information should be horrified by Bolton's actions. If he were an average person, this would be an open in shut case with him serving jail time. There is never a reason to have an open email account where you are placing classified information, and even less to create one for a "diary". Hillary should have gone to jail for it and Bolton should go to jail for it.
Robby Mook, Clinton's 2016 campaign manager, was instrumental in the invention of RussiaGate. The meeting that started it off was held the day after Clinton's defeat. The Clinton campaign's allegations of Trump's collusion with Russia began during the campaign in order to deflect criticism from Hillary for the Uranium deal made while she was Secretary of State.
I particularly laughed when Bolton claimed that it's perfectly ok to keep a diary. Ummm, not when that diary contains info that you copied down and which you knew was classified info. There's no "diary exception" for you re-writing down classified info that was given to you in confidence in a government meeting. Only a dope would make such an assertion.
As Greg (or rather, Bolton's lawyer) stated, many officials keep diaries/journals during their time in office. I think the problem is that he shared classified info with his wife and daughter over unsecured media (messaging app and email), and called it a "diary."
The rules are different for the politicos. If you are a sailor that takes a picture on a Submarine and sends it to his girlfriend, you get 10 years in Leavenworth. These ass-clowns write books that nobody reads yet somehow they get several million dollars for.
If I had to hear one more person without a clearance say "it wasn't marked" (doesn't matter, and technically it's another violation) or "it wasn't intentional" (the private server wasn't an accident, and it's a strict liability offense anyway) I would've had a stroke.
Do you think Bolton's attorneys might cite the fact that Biden, Clinton, and Trump were found to have committed similar offenses and never even stood trial? Precedent's a bitch.
Clinton and Trump were subject to the Presidential Records Act. Bolton and (then Senator) Biden were subject to the Federal Records Act. Under the FRA there is no scenario where where you can posses classified records in your home.
You forgot the part where the CNN cameras were there to cover the investigation in his house, and when Bolton was put in leg irons and forced to make a humiliating perp walk in front of everyone.
Oh wait, only the Biden administration did stuff like that.
My mistake too for a second as the Matt Taibbi name is always on the e-mail when I get these and at first didn't see the Greg Collard byline. Distracted by the headline I suppose. Bolton's one of these bad neocons that got us in the Iraq quicksand, etc. Fully support the DOJ/Trump moves against him but do disagree with pulling his security detail. Also disagreed with pulling Pompeo's security detail. Iran's still got those fatwa's in place on both Bolton and Pompeo.
But Roger Stone was dangerous and deserved the pre-dawn SWAT treatment. He was charged with "obstruction of a congressional investigation, five counts of making false statements to Congress, and tampering with a witness." He could have blurted out more false statements, a perverted, ultra-violent crime seldom witnessed in Washington, D.C.
Well, considering they put Kiriakou in jail for 2.5 years for a complete frame-up job where he did absolutely nothing wrong, other than upsetting Bolton's fellow criminal boyfriend, John Brennan, Bolton should probably receive the death penalty that he wanted so bad for Bradley Manning.
Just pisses me off to no end - the greed that so pervades DC and the celebrity that these officials (elected and otherwise) gin up for themselves to capitalize on their service.
I pray every morning at Mass that God drops a giant enema hose on the Beltway and surrounding areas and blasts the rot away.
Good point! Following the money on a few of these books would be a good job for an investigative reporter. Along with the speeches they get paid exorbitantly for.
A former mayor of Baltimore made the city schools, the UMD medical system, and other entities over which she had influence buy her books in bulk. She was busted by Robert Hur, whom we were later supposed to believe was an unethical right wing extremist because he told obvious truths about Biden's mental condition.
I borrowed the book from the library and tried to read it. It was so boring, poorly written, and self congratulatory that I skipped over at least 80% of it. If his goal was to prove Trump shouldn’t be president, he failed (and I say that as someone who didn’t vote for Trump).
"...he wrote the book to “reveal a picture of the president that people can draw their own conclusions from.
My conclusion is clear. I don’t think he should be president. But I didn’t wanna write a book that was argumentation or that was being an amateur psychoanalyst or coming up with pigeon holes or categories or put the president in.
I wanted people to see him as he operated. Now, there’re people who say that somehow, this is a breach of trust. I don’t see it that way at all. I think there’s an obligation to let the American people know what it’s like in the White House and what their leader is doing. I’m prepared to take the grief that this book will cause because I think the greater loyalty should be to the Constitution and the country."
If the writing in the book is anything like these verbal assaults on the English language, I can imagine how "poorly written" it was...
It’s really sad to realize at my age to conclude that our politicians have been playing a real life version of Spy vs Spy ( or is it Wylie Coyote vs the Roadrunner) for most of my 70 some years…..Trump arrives in Washington having concluded pretty much the same, determined to correct the course of a do mostly nothing government only to be lied to and double crossed by these career opportunists like Bolton . “ He’s not a politician” should be heralded rather than villified, tarred and feathered…
There's a reason all of these scoundrels use Abby Lowell as their attorney. Political incest. No way a Leftist gets convicted in or around DC with Lowell defending them. He'll request gag orders on the prosecution but not on himself. Crucial witnesses for the prosecution will be barred from testifying. All motions by the prosecutor denied.
My point - for any trial held in the DC area, it's 3 on 1. The prosecutor against the defense, the judge and the jury. You can point all you want to perps having the book thrown at them for much lesser offenses. In Bolton's case, he walks free regardless of the amount of damning evidence against him. The best that can be hoped for is that the process is the punishment, meaning Bolton will spend every last penny he has enriching Lowell for his (Lowell's) access to the incestuously corrupt DC judicial system.
well if the NYT is reporting that he sent the daily encrypted messages to his wife and daughter that makes sense. The doublespeak detranslation is: the dnc blob supports Bolton in this matter.
I generally think American's are wildly overdependent on incarceration to resolve everything, which amounts to kidnapping someone from their family and locking them in a filthy cage like an animal. The media and our culture have so normalized it that American's treat it like a low cost punishment similar to a time out for children, when it is correctly seen as as system built on isolation, humiliation and violence that is one of the cruelest things you can do to human being.
Glenn Greenwald recently reminded us that for the far lesser crimes of Julian Assange (no crime at all in his case) and Snowden (a crime based on exposing the greater crimes of the State), John Bolton recommended 160 years in prison and being hung by a rope from a tall oak tree respectively.
In Bolton's case I don't consider incarceration punishment. I consider it Karma.
I have a thought re incarceration and its benefits.
If we dont hold people for some period of time and let them "off for whatever reason" they generally reoffend ie recidivism.
When we hold folks in jail for an extended/reasonable period of time, we keep them away from their bad habits perhaps helping them see that their earlier decisions were not good for them. Is there a "magic number" for Bolton or others, not sure. For Bolton at 76 yrs old, I could see a solid 10+ yrs in the pokey so he feels the pain, and does not have much to look forward to the bal of his life.
For a murderer, the term should be quite lengthy, as that person is likely to commit addl crimes in most cases. Its a bit like a dog tasting blood, they continue because they like it.
I believe, and I would argue the data confirms that prison has the opposite effect of everything you want on that list, which is a good list of things to want.
You mentioned the recidivism of not holding people accountable, (and by this I assume you mean incarceration) but have you looked at the rate of recidivism for those we do incarcerate? It generally starts early in life and they then spend the rest of their life in and out of prison. The rarest thing you will find in prison is a first time offender, or someone who learned their lesson. The people who don't go back are almost always the people who should not have been there in the first place.
With prison you are placing people in the most toxic environment possible over an extended period of time in the belief that if monsters will teach them better behavior. Incarceration does not correct bad habits. It makes harmless people dangerous and dangerous people more dangerous. Individual criminals learn to be better at being a criminal from people who have been doing it longer and form new groups to commit future crimes with.
Using prison for rehabilitation has failed, using it to prevent crime has failed (we have the largest prison population in the world, yet we are far from the safest country). It's a system based on isolation, humiliation and violence that values all the worst traits of human character.
If I wanted to create a better citizen, would I leave their education to bigger criminals? If someone decided they wanted to improve you, would using those tools correct your behavior, or make you angry and bitter towards society, which is how most ex-cons end up.
Perhaps most importantly, in America you never truly get out of prison.
When you get out after "paying your debt to society," you face over 1,500 laws at the state, local and federal level that limit your freedom post incarceration. Everything from renting an apartment to gun rights to job re-entry (over 60% of jobs in America require that the person not have a felony and these are almost entirely the type of jobs that allow you to one day earn enough to pay rent and live without government assistance).
Forget about forming a family or even dating. let alone reintegrating into society. If you were to interview the homeless population in America you would find a disproportionate number have a criminal record that makes renting or having a job almost impossible. The system is designed to prevent their re-integration into society.
How do you think that ends? It's why so many of them go back to prison. Better to be around other felons who share their slavery than live in a society where they are constantly reminded that just about everyone but them is free.
I have come to believe that prison should only serve one function, public safety. You incarcerate someone because if you don't they will hurt other people. Not to rehabilitate them, make an example, or hold accountable. Terms which at root are almost always code for vindictive retribution and revenge.
America once had a range of punishments for a crime before our current prison for everyone model that is less effective, but far more profitable. If you stole from someone, the punishment might be paying them back + 50%, which interestingly enough is closer to what the Hammurabi code from 5,500 years ago than our current system. There was also public punishment option in the past, which almost anyone incarcerated would choose. At least with a public lashing the punishment in finite.
An ex-con will go to their grave living on the fringe of society as a non-citizen. No matter how far in life they go after they get out, they will never reach a point where they can visit a school to give a lecture of what the Vietnam war was like (I have a friend who is a combat veteran from Vietnam who was prohibited from going to a High School and sharing his experience because he received a non-violent felony 40 years ago. You quickly learn that society makes almost no distinction what the felony was for our how long ago it occurred when they apply their permanent prohibition. Mark Walberg, who committed a felony in his youth and has dedicated his entire life to making up for it was recently prohibited from buying a liquor license for a restaurant because of his felony and this is someone worth north of 500,000 million. Imagine what that means to the vast majority of ex-felons who never obtain that status and survive in a society that can be pretty tough even under the best circumstances.
Until we come up with an incarceration system that isn't designed to permanently damage the society we all live in, it should be avoided at all costs.
I do appreciate your rather lengthy response and thoughtful comments.
I have not spent much time looking at "history" and data re convicts/incarceration/recidivism etc. My comments are my opinions from being around 70 years. Im sure we have supporters on many sides of the issue.
The end game ?/ is: "how do we get people to behave in a civil manner in their community?" "When they dont, what do we do with them, believe me there will always be "them" out there?"
There is no alternative for these offenders esp the violent repeat offenders.
As you mention early, the ones you dont see in prison are the first timers or those who learned their leason. I rest my case, the system worked for those "rare cases".
I am sick of all the stories of bail reform, no bail release, release with a "promise to be good". These measures rarely work. You can see it with the many recent murders of our citizens by these offenders who've been released without trial, or pending trial. It is disgusting. Infuriating. Just think of the criminal(s) who have recently been stalking the Loop in Chicago, sucker punching ladies on the street. All of these offenders have multiple charges and rulings in many cases againt them, including felonies on their records, yet they are released on the street, behaving like wild dogs. I do not consider these offenders part of civil society. Nor do I feel they have any chance of breaking out of their "own prisons". They do not deserve all the "breaks" they receive, since that does not work.
I am not naieve that our "system" is in need of repair. Letting criminals back out on the street is not the answer.
I still feel consequences for bad behavior are needed.
Lastly, we are sending a message to the next generation of criminals by allowing all this unchecked shoplifting/vandalism across our cities. Virtually all are black or hispanic kids and young adults. We are doing them a disservice to allow their actions.
My answer, catch em, cut part of a finger off for the first offense. If caught again, the rest of the finger. Three strikes and you loose a hand. Hammurabi was on to something.
Unfortunately, for people who do wrong there’s usually a sense they’re “special” and won’t get caught. Some call it the criminal mind, others magical thinking. Point is, it’s not rational, and deterrence not as effective as believed. Main thing is to take them out of circulation.
He was a summer intern for Vice President Spiro Agnew.
He wormed his way deep into power on the Project for a New American Century. Does anyone remember that Project run by Robert Kagan, the spouse of Victoria Newland?
"spouse of Victoria Nuland" is a thousand word noun phrase
I know you know.
10/20/25: And until it became true, it was also a proposition that was promptly filed under "Impossible." Then... That Guy came along, much to the amazement of the marine biologists who had proven, or so they thought, that that specific sea snake species has gone extinct 200 years earlier..
Two savages out for Russian blood no matter the cost in Ukrainian soldiers be it 10 killed to kill a Russian or even 20 to kill a Russian. The cold war never ended for a lot of people in power in this country.
10/20/25: Anything connected to Victoria (The Whale) Newland is radioactive.
--- "DOJ says he prepared to transmit secrets before day one. Years later, his private email was apparently hacked by Iran."
"I was hacked" would be a very convenient alibi for someone who for whatever reason wanted that information to "be hacked" and in the hands of the intended receiver, would it not?
(Apparently, it works, so if the NY Jets Quarterback this coming Sunday has any interest in passes being received, he might want to look into this technique.)
This guy was living in a glass house and he threw a lot of stones.
He threw hand grenades
Mean Mister Mustache he's in the dark
Raves full of snark lying for a newspaper
Sleeps in his huge Bethesda home
If you lose your job just learn to code
Peasants make him turn up his nose
Such a mean old man
Suck on this, old man
[Verse 2]
His sister Kam works writing slop
She never stops, she's a Substacker
Takes him out to brat summer yas kween
Donald Trump's tweets are so mean
Always shouts out something obscene
Such a dirty old man
Dirty old man
Fantastic! Thanks
Read that first line and, “ His sister Pam works in a shop, she never stops, she's a go getter.” popped into my head. Mean Mr Mustard
Clever and well done
Dude, we need an AI version of this sung by the AI Beatles!
Good theme, but it doesn't scan that well.
Couple of suggestions (words in caps indicate stress/emphasis):
LIES full of snark for a NEWSpaper
Sleeps in his huge Maryland HOME
Lose your job, just learn to CODE
This line I just don't get, but with a certain cadence it scans): Takes him OUT to brat summer yas KWEEN . . .
I do this out of my love for the Beatles and their great Shabby Road LP (tip o' the hat to The Rutles). I really do dig the sentiment, though.
Your moniker reminds me of a skit from the late, great SCTV. The original name is "Yorgi."
Hey Yuri
He's coming to your town
Hey Yuri
He never wears a frown
Hey Yuri
He's happy as can be
Cause all of Russia is Yuri's family, HEY!
John Bolton has always styled himself as a modern Theodore Roosevelt — the mustache, the bluster, the talk of moral courage and American grit. But peel back the posture and you get something closer to a wussy Teddy Roosevelt, a desk warrior who mistakes chest-thumping for conviction. The big stick is just a pen, the charge up the hill replaced by a sprint to the publisher’s office. Beneath the bravado lies a bureaucrat who weaponized patriotism for profit.
…who routinely gets a lot of other people killed.
Agreed. Absolutely nothing funny about this gang of a-holes. Thanks, Greg, for stepping up! Nice work!
He's the definition of a chicken hawk.
All Bolton has in common with TR is they were both crazy.
Sorta reminds me of Wilfred Brimley, but not as likeable.
Anyone who has ever worked with classified information should be horrified by Bolton's actions. If he were an average person, this would be an open in shut case with him serving jail time. There is never a reason to have an open email account where you are placing classified information, and even less to create one for a "diary". Hillary should have gone to jail for it and Bolton should go to jail for it.
It’s why Hillary and Obama ginned up Russiagate, to take the focus from her illegal acts and aim the focus on Trump.
Seth Rich.
Robby Mook, Clinton's 2016 campaign manager, was instrumental in the invention of RussiaGate. The meeting that started it off was held the day after Clinton's defeat. The Clinton campaign's allegations of Trump's collusion with Russia began during the campaign in order to deflect criticism from Hillary for the Uranium deal made while she was Secretary of State.
Yup , they couldn’t admit they botched the the election
I particularly laughed when Bolton claimed that it's perfectly ok to keep a diary. Ummm, not when that diary contains info that you copied down and which you knew was classified info. There's no "diary exception" for you re-writing down classified info that was given to you in confidence in a government meeting. Only a dope would make such an assertion.
As Greg (or rather, Bolton's lawyer) stated, many officials keep diaries/journals during their time in office. I think the problem is that he shared classified info with his wife and daughter over unsecured media (messaging app and email), and called it a "diary."
And you transfer info to others !
The rules are different for the politicos. If you are a sailor that takes a picture on a Submarine and sends it to his girlfriend, you get 10 years in Leavenworth. These ass-clowns write books that nobody reads yet somehow they get several million dollars for.
That's the difference between making the rules and being subject to them.
Seems like this sort of handling of Classified Docs is fairly routine in DC. I'd indict a lot more folks, Reps and Dems.
I would suspect that his behavior is standard. Imagine that there have been a lot of fireplaces in action the last month.
But Laura, don’t you know that no one is above the law?
If I had to hear one more person without a clearance say "it wasn't marked" (doesn't matter, and technically it's another violation) or "it wasn't intentional" (the private server wasn't an accident, and it's a strict liability offense anyway) I would've had a stroke.
Do you think Bolton's attorneys might cite the fact that Biden, Clinton, and Trump were found to have committed similar offenses and never even stood trial? Precedent's a bitch.
Clinton and Trump were subject to the Presidential Records Act. Bolton and (then Senator) Biden were subject to the Federal Records Act. Under the FRA there is no scenario where where you can posses classified records in your home.
But they all do it and are surprised and insulted when caught. Curiouser and curiouser.
You forgot the part where the CNN cameras were there to cover the investigation in his house, and when Bolton was put in leg irons and forced to make a humiliating perp walk in front of everyone.
Oh wait, only the Biden administration did stuff like that.
P.S. Matt, glad to see you are feeling better...
This wasn't Matt. It's Greg Collard
Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed.
My mistake too for a second as the Matt Taibbi name is always on the e-mail when I get these and at first didn't see the Greg Collard byline. Distracted by the headline I suppose. Bolton's one of these bad neocons that got us in the Iraq quicksand, etc. Fully support the DOJ/Trump moves against him but do disagree with pulling his security detail. Also disagreed with pulling Pompeo's security detail. Iran's still got those fatwa's in place on both Bolton and Pompeo.
They've all got enough money to provide their own security.
But Roger Stone was dangerous and deserved the pre-dawn SWAT treatment. He was charged with "obstruction of a congressional investigation, five counts of making false statements to Congress, and tampering with a witness." He could have blurted out more false statements, a perverted, ultra-violent crime seldom witnessed in Washington, D.C.
Thanks for the chuckle - I needed one just about now.
Will his mustache be tried separately?
I've heard that they'll be tried together, but that his mustache has its own counsel.
Lol. That's even better. 😆
😂😂
His mustache will be ruled to be not guilty by reason of insanity, and confined indefinitely to the same D.C. hospital which housed John Hinckley.
🤭🤭🥸
Well, considering they put Kiriakou in jail for 2.5 years for a complete frame-up job where he did absolutely nothing wrong, other than upsetting Bolton's fellow criminal boyfriend, John Brennan, Bolton should probably receive the death penalty that he wanted so bad for Bradley Manning.
Just pisses me off to no end - the greed that so pervades DC and the celebrity that these officials (elected and otherwise) gin up for themselves to capitalize on their service.
I pray every morning at Mass that God drops a giant enema hose on the Beltway and surrounding areas and blasts the rot away.
Books that no one reads, but have a big payout!
Taxpayer funded libraries and schools.
Good point! Following the money on a few of these books would be a good job for an investigative reporter. Along with the speeches they get paid exorbitantly for.
It would be a great story. Add grant funded university libraries.
A former mayor of Baltimore made the city schools, the UMD medical system, and other entities over which she had influence buy her books in bulk. She was busted by Robert Hur, whom we were later supposed to believe was an unethical right wing extremist because he told obvious truths about Biden's mental condition.
So, the imagery makes me a bit queasy, but otherwise I'm right there with you. :)
You got your wish. Did you see the AI video of Trump piloting a fighter jet over a No kings protest and dumping poop on them?
Needs to cover area code 202!
I enjoy the fantasy Tim. I wish it could happen!
“My conclusion is clear. I don’t think he should be president. ”
So it’s up to John Bolton to judge whether someone is president? I thought we voted on that decision, it wasn’t up to some swampy insider.
I borrowed the book from the library and tried to read it. It was so boring, poorly written, and self congratulatory that I skipped over at least 80% of it. If his goal was to prove Trump shouldn’t be president, he failed (and I say that as someone who didn’t vote for Trump).
You’re not intended to read that sort of book; no one is.
I'm glad you didn't waste your money buying it
From Greg's article:
"...he wrote the book to “reveal a picture of the president that people can draw their own conclusions from.
My conclusion is clear. I don’t think he should be president. But I didn’t wanna write a book that was argumentation or that was being an amateur psychoanalyst or coming up with pigeon holes or categories or put the president in.
I wanted people to see him as he operated. Now, there’re people who say that somehow, this is a breach of trust. I don’t see it that way at all. I think there’s an obligation to let the American people know what it’s like in the White House and what their leader is doing. I’m prepared to take the grief that this book will cause because I think the greater loyalty should be to the Constitution and the country."
If the writing in the book is anything like these verbal assaults on the English language, I can imagine how "poorly written" it was...
I'm shocked, shocked to learn that John Bolton holds others to security standards that he himself does not bother to observe.
This is the elite problem in a nutshell.
It’s really sad to realize at my age to conclude that our politicians have been playing a real life version of Spy vs Spy ( or is it Wylie Coyote vs the Roadrunner) for most of my 70 some years…..Trump arrives in Washington having concluded pretty much the same, determined to correct the course of a do mostly nothing government only to be lied to and double crossed by these career opportunists like Bolton . “ He’s not a politician” should be heralded rather than villified, tarred and feathered…
There's a reason all of these scoundrels use Abby Lowell as their attorney. Political incest. No way a Leftist gets convicted in or around DC with Lowell defending them. He'll request gag orders on the prosecution but not on himself. Crucial witnesses for the prosecution will be barred from testifying. All motions by the prosecutor denied.
My point - for any trial held in the DC area, it's 3 on 1. The prosecutor against the defense, the judge and the jury. You can point all you want to perps having the book thrown at them for much lesser offenses. In Bolton's case, he walks free regardless of the amount of damning evidence against him. The best that can be hoped for is that the process is the punishment, meaning Bolton will spend every last penny he has enriching Lowell for his (Lowell's) access to the incestuously corrupt DC judicial system.
well if the NYT is reporting that he sent the daily encrypted messages to his wife and daughter that makes sense. The doublespeak detranslation is: the dnc blob supports Bolton in this matter.
I generally think American's are wildly overdependent on incarceration to resolve everything, which amounts to kidnapping someone from their family and locking them in a filthy cage like an animal. The media and our culture have so normalized it that American's treat it like a low cost punishment similar to a time out for children, when it is correctly seen as as system built on isolation, humiliation and violence that is one of the cruelest things you can do to human being.
Glenn Greenwald recently reminded us that for the far lesser crimes of Julian Assange (no crime at all in his case) and Snowden (a crime based on exposing the greater crimes of the State), John Bolton recommended 160 years in prison and being hung by a rope from a tall oak tree respectively.
In Bolton's case I don't consider incarceration punishment. I consider it Karma.
I have a thought re incarceration and its benefits.
If we dont hold people for some period of time and let them "off for whatever reason" they generally reoffend ie recidivism.
When we hold folks in jail for an extended/reasonable period of time, we keep them away from their bad habits perhaps helping them see that their earlier decisions were not good for them. Is there a "magic number" for Bolton or others, not sure. For Bolton at 76 yrs old, I could see a solid 10+ yrs in the pokey so he feels the pain, and does not have much to look forward to the bal of his life.
For a murderer, the term should be quite lengthy, as that person is likely to commit addl crimes in most cases. Its a bit like a dog tasting blood, they continue because they like it.
I believe, and I would argue the data confirms that prison has the opposite effect of everything you want on that list, which is a good list of things to want.
You mentioned the recidivism of not holding people accountable, (and by this I assume you mean incarceration) but have you looked at the rate of recidivism for those we do incarcerate? It generally starts early in life and they then spend the rest of their life in and out of prison. The rarest thing you will find in prison is a first time offender, or someone who learned their lesson. The people who don't go back are almost always the people who should not have been there in the first place.
With prison you are placing people in the most toxic environment possible over an extended period of time in the belief that if monsters will teach them better behavior. Incarceration does not correct bad habits. It makes harmless people dangerous and dangerous people more dangerous. Individual criminals learn to be better at being a criminal from people who have been doing it longer and form new groups to commit future crimes with.
Using prison for rehabilitation has failed, using it to prevent crime has failed (we have the largest prison population in the world, yet we are far from the safest country). It's a system based on isolation, humiliation and violence that values all the worst traits of human character.
If I wanted to create a better citizen, would I leave their education to bigger criminals? If someone decided they wanted to improve you, would using those tools correct your behavior, or make you angry and bitter towards society, which is how most ex-cons end up.
Perhaps most importantly, in America you never truly get out of prison.
When you get out after "paying your debt to society," you face over 1,500 laws at the state, local and federal level that limit your freedom post incarceration. Everything from renting an apartment to gun rights to job re-entry (over 60% of jobs in America require that the person not have a felony and these are almost entirely the type of jobs that allow you to one day earn enough to pay rent and live without government assistance).
Forget about forming a family or even dating. let alone reintegrating into society. If you were to interview the homeless population in America you would find a disproportionate number have a criminal record that makes renting or having a job almost impossible. The system is designed to prevent their re-integration into society.
How do you think that ends? It's why so many of them go back to prison. Better to be around other felons who share their slavery than live in a society where they are constantly reminded that just about everyone but them is free.
I have come to believe that prison should only serve one function, public safety. You incarcerate someone because if you don't they will hurt other people. Not to rehabilitate them, make an example, or hold accountable. Terms which at root are almost always code for vindictive retribution and revenge.
America once had a range of punishments for a crime before our current prison for everyone model that is less effective, but far more profitable. If you stole from someone, the punishment might be paying them back + 50%, which interestingly enough is closer to what the Hammurabi code from 5,500 years ago than our current system. There was also public punishment option in the past, which almost anyone incarcerated would choose. At least with a public lashing the punishment in finite.
An ex-con will go to their grave living on the fringe of society as a non-citizen. No matter how far in life they go after they get out, they will never reach a point where they can visit a school to give a lecture of what the Vietnam war was like (I have a friend who is a combat veteran from Vietnam who was prohibited from going to a High School and sharing his experience because he received a non-violent felony 40 years ago. You quickly learn that society makes almost no distinction what the felony was for our how long ago it occurred when they apply their permanent prohibition. Mark Walberg, who committed a felony in his youth and has dedicated his entire life to making up for it was recently prohibited from buying a liquor license for a restaurant because of his felony and this is someone worth north of 500,000 million. Imagine what that means to the vast majority of ex-felons who never obtain that status and survive in a society that can be pretty tough even under the best circumstances.
Until we come up with an incarceration system that isn't designed to permanently damage the society we all live in, it should be avoided at all costs.
And yet, Bolton should probably go to prison.
Hope this makes it way to the thread.
I do appreciate your rather lengthy response and thoughtful comments.
I have not spent much time looking at "history" and data re convicts/incarceration/recidivism etc. My comments are my opinions from being around 70 years. Im sure we have supporters on many sides of the issue.
The end game ?/ is: "how do we get people to behave in a civil manner in their community?" "When they dont, what do we do with them, believe me there will always be "them" out there?"
There is no alternative for these offenders esp the violent repeat offenders.
As you mention early, the ones you dont see in prison are the first timers or those who learned their leason. I rest my case, the system worked for those "rare cases".
I am sick of all the stories of bail reform, no bail release, release with a "promise to be good". These measures rarely work. You can see it with the many recent murders of our citizens by these offenders who've been released without trial, or pending trial. It is disgusting. Infuriating. Just think of the criminal(s) who have recently been stalking the Loop in Chicago, sucker punching ladies on the street. All of these offenders have multiple charges and rulings in many cases againt them, including felonies on their records, yet they are released on the street, behaving like wild dogs. I do not consider these offenders part of civil society. Nor do I feel they have any chance of breaking out of their "own prisons". They do not deserve all the "breaks" they receive, since that does not work.
I am not naieve that our "system" is in need of repair. Letting criminals back out on the street is not the answer.
I still feel consequences for bad behavior are needed.
Lastly, we are sending a message to the next generation of criminals by allowing all this unchecked shoplifting/vandalism across our cities. Virtually all are black or hispanic kids and young adults. We are doing them a disservice to allow their actions.
My answer, catch em, cut part of a finger off for the first offense. If caught again, the rest of the finger. Three strikes and you loose a hand. Hammurabi was on to something.
Athens banished offenders. Would that be better? We could, for example, banish Bolton to Iran.
Unfortunately, for people who do wrong there’s usually a sense they’re “special” and won’t get caught. Some call it the criminal mind, others magical thinking. Point is, it’s not rational, and deterrence not as effective as believed. Main thing is to take them out of circulation.