Its pretty clear we have become LITERALLY retarded as a Society. We currently exist in a world of pretty much nothing but 'narrative laundering'. I wonder where the edge of the cliff is....
Fair enough. Let's drop "ring" and replace it with "random caravan of wealthy men traveling to the island of women of various ages." Having seen the photos, they weren't there for the deluxe accommodations, were they.
But then that wouldn't be much different than what you usually get with wealthy men and young women. Are we going to investigate the typical rock band tour caravan or professional athletes in town for a game caravan? There's ugly shit in the world, and most of it we shrug our shoulders at.
Perfect. Wealthy men who need to be exposed as johns, charged with sex crimes like every other john should be, and also, those who abused minor girls/boys sent to jail for statutory rape.
Charged by the same govt that has had this evidence all of this time, right? Because now you get to see some redacted information that won't substantiate a crime.
I think Epstein’s real money came from being the person managing the sales of weapons throughout the world. Darryl Cooper and Mike Benz do some really good analysis of this. So, it makes sense that Epstein would have a very diverse set of friends who liked to be with someone who could get them young p**y and seemed to float above the law. Until he didn’t. What’s surprising to me is I haven’t heard a lot about what happened during the summer of 2019 when someone/entity said ‘ok, Epstein has to go’. Cause, he was gone quickly, whether by his own hand or not.
Matt will write article after article about epstein not trafficking woman, the thing he was convicted for, but he wont spend one hour doing actual journalism about epstein.
You are correct, I misspoke. Only convicted for sex with underage girls and federally charged with sex trafficking, during which he committed suicide before trial.
Good one! See my comment to your idiotic comments listing the facts involved. Going to say Maxwell wasn't convicted of sex trafficking as his accomplice also?
Ghislaine Maxwell, his partner and associate, was convicted in 2021 for sex trafficking minors. Her conviction was directly tied to conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to recruit, traffic, and abuse minors. That and a few hundred million in settlements of hundreds of victims. And the thousands of pages of work by good journalists documenting the case.
He was federally charged with sex trafficking minors. Mayhe just on rumors tho
Ghislaine Maxwell WAS convicted of conspiring with Epstein to traffick women! Her convictions--for conspiring with Epstein to commit sex crimes--are the very definition of a sex ring.
She was convicted, and is in prison for conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to sexually exploit and abuse MULTIPLE MINOR GIRLS over the course of a decade.
She also was convicted of conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts, transporting minors to participate in illegal sex acts, sex trafficking conspiracy, and sex trafficking of a minor.
The only thing missing from the official record are the identities of the males who Epstein/Maxwell trafficked the girls to.
"GHISLANE MAXWELL was sentenced today in Manhattan federal court by United States Circuit Judge Alison J. Nathan to 240 months in prison for her role in a scheme to sexual exploit and abuse multiple minor girls with Jeffrey Epstein over the course of a decade. MAXWELL was previously found guilty on December 29, 2021, following a one-month jury trial, of conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts, conspiracy to transport minors to participate in illegal sex acts, transporting a minor to participate in illegal sex acts, sex trafficking conspiracy, and sex trafficking of a minor."
Again, none of that is in dispute. Its also not the fucking point. What IS the point being made is that, until names are named, by somebody, anybody, there is nothing but conjecture and its wily cousin, conspiracy. And, since we as a Public have been fed so much utter bullshit about so much in such a short timeline, some fatigue is not only understandable, but to be expected.
Try reading the DOJ announcement of Maxwell's conviction slowly. I'll put the key words in caps to help.
"Wily cousin, conspiracy." Note that Maxwell was convicted of CONSPIRACY--WITH EPSTEIN!
Excerpt below, and link to full announcement below that:
"GHISLANE MAXWELL was sentenced today in Manhattan federal court by United States Circuit Judge Alison J. Nathan to 240 months in prison for her role in a scheme to sexual exploit and abuse MULTIPLE MINOR GIRLS with JEFFREY EPSTEIN over the course of a DECADE. MAXWELL was previously found guilty on December 29, 2021, following a one-month jury trial, of CONSPIRACY to entice MINORS to travel to engage in ILLEGAL SEX ACTS, CONSPIRACY to transport minors to participate in illegal sex acts, transporting a minor to participate in illegal sex acts, sex trafficking CONSPIRACY, and sex trafficking of a minor."
Shockingly idiotic. Did anyone name any names in that comment? Do you think they trafficked the girls to no one? You are using strawman argument saying that because someone made one accusation that can't be proven therefore it wasn't a sex ring. How dumb.
Wtf is ur point here Bri? Theres no strawman or idiocy in anything Taibbi wrote. Nor I. Learn what that shit ACTUALLY means wouldya?
What IS idiocy is just shouting out more garbage in order to...what? Im tellin ya man...ur not gonna get a new hat for pissing into the wind, or for being another righteous indignation warrior, or whatever tf ur on about. Jfc dude...
Clearly. Matt is desperate to ask, "what sex ring?
1. Epstein was charged with sex trafficking and committed suicide before his trial.
2. Epstein was accused by many dozens of women in sworn testimony that they were trafficked by epstein to powerful men.
3. Epstein was rumored to be trafficking woman, specifically underage women, by dozens of sources. (Endless citations) ask Mrs McCain.
4. Maxwell was charged and convicted of sex trafficking as his accomplice and is currently in prison.
Please dispute these facts.
Anyone who claims to be a journalist who would say, "what sex ring?", is obviously either an idiot or is obfuscating on purpose. You can pick whichever you prefer.
No one is denying shit went on meathead....but where, when, to whom, etc. is whats pertinent here...and ACTUAL journalism involves knowing the diff btwn gossip, rumor, etc and consciously NOT following that crap. But, as I said elsewhere, its the jockeying for narrative that is paramount now. Do u prefer that one more guy (Taibbi) just throw more garbage into the fire? And then what?
Apparently asking what sex ring isnt denying there's a sex ring to you, meathead. And apparently it somehow refutes something? Who said where or when or whom? Still can't refute the facts I listed? Matt has been jockeying for narrative- the narrative the epstein was not trafficking women to powerful men. Which could only be believed if you were a clueless idiot and didn't want to read for 5 minutes.
That is not what I wrote. Or what Michael wrote. I’m not saying definitively Epstein didn’t traffic to third parties. I’m saying there is no evidence of this. Neither of his criminal cases even allege it. The only stories suggesting this came from highly questionable narrators in civil cases, and the allegations are all vague:unnamed powerful men at unnamed times and dates, mentioned years after conflicting stories. It’s possible, but it’s not supported. As for Trump I don’t care what the files say about him - if he made jokes about rolling with underage girls, let’s see it. It’s not like his history makes that unlikely. But his history isn’t evidence. The whole point is to get back to what the evidence says. Which isn’t much, when it comes to people apart from Epstein.
Hey Google! Was Ghislaine Maxwell convicted of directly conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to sex traffic minors? Hey google, tell Matt so he stops embarrassing himself!
He committed suicide while being literally charged with sex trafficking. There are more than a few dozen of sworn And his partner and associate Maxwell was charged and convicted of trafficking minors, with sworn, corroborated testimonies, in court, on the record. Maybe I just don't know what evidence means? To be a journalist and say nothing is ever official unless you find a written note in blood by the person admitting their guilt is ridiculous. You are ignoring overwhelming evidence and underplaying the available evidence. Including the over 1,000 victims (only according to the FBI and Dept of Justice).
Imagine if people cared that much about the underage victims of the extensive grooming gangs in the UK. Or the pimps actively running wild in places like Seattle, where the government funded a convicted kiddie pimp. Is this really about the girls, or just Trump... again?
Done. 1) Epstein was charged in the most recent case and committed suicide in jail. The case was dropped because he was dead and there was no conviction. 2) "Epstein was accused by many women in sworn testimony ..." . Those were civil cases, those women were suing for money. Thus the "sworn testimony" resulted in zero convictions for criminal activity. 3) Epstein was rumored to be trafficking women is just that - rumors. It is of zero significance outside the henhouse. 4) Maxwell was convicted independently of conspiracy to entice, conspiracy to transport, transporting, sex trafficking and conspiracy to sex traffick. The convictions all related to minor girls. Her convictions were upheld by the appellate court and the Supreme Court declined to take her case. She currently has pending a petition for a writ of habeas corpus. The basis of that petition is an allegation of "substantial new evidence" that undermines the convictions. Epstein's only conviction was in the 2008 Florida case and was for solicitation of prostitution and solicitation of prostitution with a minor. This case was where the allegation pertaining to the 14 year old was involved but it is my understanding her allegations did not result in conviction. Furtheore it does not appear any of the women were charged with prostitution. PTL courts do not operate on feels, rumors , or "what everybody knows. Rather they proceed on admissable evidence which has been verified and authenticated. Testimonial evidence is subject to cross-examination. This was MTs point. He wants to see the evidence, not the accusation.
So far Maxwell is convicted. Rumors and accusations are not proof. As for Epstein himself the proof will never come. But you know, since you are good with rumor as fact, the rumor is he was murdered. And not by Maxwell. The simple truth is that I do not know what happened with Epstein. Taibbi does not know what happened with Epstein. But neither do you.
Am I asking what sex ring as a journalist? Or am I looking at the totality of information available and presenting facts?
Was Maxwell his partner and associate, living with him and traveling with him and trafficking women for him? Obviously. You'd have to not have a brain to pretend Maxwell is separate and was sex trafficking all by herself while living and traveling and working with epstein as his partner.
I don't think that anyone here is claiming Epstein is an innocent, however your complaint against Matt doesn't hold up. An actual journalist reports verifiable facts. You, in reality, have no concrete evidence, only supposition. Maybe you've been conditioned to believe that actual hard evidence is not needed. Lord knows the legacy media has pushed that notion for the last 10 years. You had better hope that you never tick off the "wrong" people and find yourself defending against rumors, because according to your metrics for conviction, well...don't bend over to grab the soap.
He remains obsessed with tying Epstein questions to people who have Trump Derangement Syndrome, which I don't. Some of us have been calling for investigations into Epstein's activities long before dems tried to use it for politics. And pretending to deny Epstein was involved with sex trafficking, among other serious crimes, makes you into an ignorant, anti-journalist hack.
Save it. There are plenty of others who will pretend to know something while they pull their leads from Chat GPT and you will probably be happy to read them.
I’ve never been an Epstein fanatic, but as I see it, the most suspicious thing about him is how fast and how high he rose with no talent, connections, or accomplishments.
How does a college dropout without a teaching credential get a teaching job at an elite private school? When he gets fired from that job for allegations of impropriety, how does he quickly get hired by the elite NYC investment firm run by the father of one of his students, in spite of having no experience in finance?
Matt’s right, the evidence that Epstein was running a sexual blackmail ring is circumstantial. But if blackmail isn’t the reason that throughout his career, Epstein was repeatedly able to get powerful men to give him things, you have to wonder, what WAS the reason? Epstein would have to have had some kind of brilliance or charisma that I just don’t see evidence of.
Do you guys remember Bernie Madoff? Not that he was involved in sex stuff, but he was a con man and a lot of very smart people made him super rich. He even fooled the SEC. Epstein was a con man too .
Yes. And Madoff apparently did know a lot about the machinery of NSDAQ. (It is my understanding that he helped found it.) He just found being a con man was a more reliable path to wealth.
Apparently he was not talentless. It seems he was pretty good at math; good enough to teach it at the high school level. Being a college dropout is obviously not always a sign of lack of ability. Some dropouts usually named as examples are Bill Gates, Edwin Land (Polaroid), Steve Jobs, etc.
It does seem though that blackmail was also in his skill set.
Sorry, but that’s a ludicrous argument. That’s like saying apparently Hunter Biden was pretty good at fossil fuel extraction, as proven by the fact that he was handed a job on the board at a Ukrainian energy company in spite of his lack of credentials.
I’ve been in education for over 20 years, and I can assure you people don’t get teaching jobs at elite NYC prep schools because they’re “good at” the subject they teach. The parents writing checks to these elite schools are doing so because the faculty either have advanced degrees from prestigious schools, or impressive careers and accomplishments in those fields. I agree you don’t need a college degree to be smart. But Bill Gates and Steve Jobs created products that sold in the hundreds of millions. I don’t think Epstein got rich by being good at solving for X
I work in higher education and I've seen plenty of un- and under-qualified rise up. Sometimes life is who you know, how you talk, and how you manipulate.
But he DID teach Math at a private school for awhile. So he got the gig through connections despite the fact he knew nothing about the subject? Now THAT'S a "sweet gig".
If he got the teaching job through the offices of wealthy and influential friends maybe they could have gotten him a job in a field in which he had some knowledge and competence instead of Math?
I did not say nor have I read anyone saying Epstein became wealthy by knowing how to solve for X.
You said he had talent in math. I’m saying I doubt talent in math is what got him that job. I won’t dispute he was good at math. I’m sure he was great at math. There are plenty of people out there who can teach high school math quite well, some with college decrees, some without. Most of them could not get a job at an elite NYC prep school. Whatever game Epstein was running, it wasn’t the math game.
I'd have to go back and check the exact words and sentence construction but I don't believe I wrote I thought he got the teaching job because he was good at Math. I wrote having the job indicates he was good enough in Math to get the job no matter how he actually got it. Even without having that job I find no particular reason to believe he was not mathematically competent, if not gifted. If you think he was not good in Math why do you think that?
I'm not going to review everything I wrote but maybe I wasn't clear enough. I think it was likely he got his teaching job through connections but he would not have gotten it if he didn't have some competence in the subject. There I do not think he was "talentless".
What are you talking about? What connections? He was a nobody. What talent? He had no accomplishments.
I’m saying there is a gap in the explanation of how he rose to the top. A curious person who wanted to report news would try to look into that gap, not explain it away
He started tutoring classmates in MATH while in Junior High. He impressed a parent of one of the students he tutored enough to be offered a job at the investment/stock firm Bear Stearns after graduating from high school at age 16 after skipping two grades. (I know what that is like. I did the same thing in the same school system. Skipped third and eighth grades. He attended P.S. 188. I went to P.S. 182.). He was not "talentless". Why do you insist he was?
I’m not insisting he’s talentless. I’m saying talent isn’t what got him his island, or that job at Bear Stearns. I also believe that you have talent at math, just as much as Epstein. What sea is your island in? What elite New York financial firm did you get a job at?
Epstein was a nice looking young guy, apparently smart enough to teach math and physics convincingly. And play piano. What's not to like? How did Elizabeth Holmes get big shots to invest in Theranos?
And Elizabeth Holmes got the big shots to invest in Theranos by convincing them she had a suitcase-sized device that could give quick, accurate blood tests. She gave demonstrations where this seemed to work. What was the narrative Epstein was selling?
This might sound absurd but there are actually nice looking guys who are good at math and play the piano who DON’T own their own islands. I almost think “what’s not to like” might not be an adequate explanation for how a non-island-owner becomes an island-owner
By definition capitalism doesn't need defending. It is the exercise of power. Power doesn't need a pep talk or cheerleaders--it's fucking power. When you can back it up, you don't need spandex back up dancers.
Being a psychopath is incredibly important in the raw exercise of power. Morality is one of the biggest obstacles to all power.
Epstein's marketable and very valuable talent was being a psychopath.
Side note: Capitalism eats cheerleaders whole--by definition. Think about it.
Not adequately blowing Floyd doesn't mean I love Zeppelin. (they both have some great stuff--sure there is some filler--and drugs, but still epic runs)
But frankly, my last post was an ode to capitalism.
Power is not a bad word.
Let me try this--and this applies to socialism, capitalism, and cheerleaders.
I don't even know what a "11 figure lifestyle is". As far as I know he did not have a mega yacht and from the pictures I've seen, "Pedo Island" was not all that impressive.
Seems to me that Epstein was a fairly ordinary sex obsessed bloke who liked youngish women and was prepared to pay for them. Lots of them.
As Matt says, there appear to be very few under 18 years old. So they were pretty well all adult women who acquiesced in the arrangement, largely for money. Isn't this viewed by feminists as female empowerment? Although feminists do seem to like to jump around if they can see what they call a 'power imbalance'. Not sure what rock they've lived under all their lives, but either women are entitled to have sex for money (or do it for free) or they're not. You can't have it both ways, as in 'it's all right some of the time, but not when it's someone we've decided to hate'.
My guess is there are a lot more people out there in the world who're doing WAY more sordid things than Epstein ever did. The lawyer Matt mentions above said he'd rate Epstein about a 4 out of 10 on the sordid scale. Sounds about right. My brother is a lawyer who deals with this sort of stuff a fair bit (poor him), and he sees many more sicko things than this in his job. And he's only one lawyer out of many thousands working on these sort of cases. Not just in America, but all over the world.
You know what I wish? I wish the mainstream media would actually do something useful and start exposing slavery around the world. It's largely women, often young girls. Now that'd be something really decent the media could get their teeth into. But for some reason, they prefer to exaggerate and lie about something pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things. Shame really. Such a waste of power the media could wield for good.
It is maddening that so many people are such shallow drama addicts who don't let real truth get in the way of their perversions. My husband and I worked with a group called "Truckers Against Trafficking" about a decade ago as well as unwittingly helping a person break free from her traffickers. Epstein is NOT the face of sex trafficking. These people who are obsessed with this seem perverted themselves to me. They do go on and on about it ad nauseum.
All ages and the seven years once trapped in the life doesn't discriminate. If they are 12 or 14 they probably won't make it to be able to buy beer legally. No proms, first dates, college memories, marriage... Modern day slavery.
I thought it was a good article because I've known all along it was exaggerated. It's clear what a scumbag Bill Clinton is, but we didn't need to know about Epstein to know it. We've always known it. Trump at least threw the guy out of Mara-lago, so he figured out he was disgusting --on many levels. But he did it and a LONG time ago. I listened to Megyn Kelly who says there isn't that much "there there." Though there's no denying Epstein was also a huge scum bag. Whether he was tied in with Israel's intelligence or whatever, or ours, could be SOME truth to that even if informally -- could be why he got away with stuff. But I think Michael is accurate and I'm sick to death of hearing about it. But listening to that girl's description of Epstein in Michael's article was interesting and enlightening. The real deal is that powerful men did this stuff back then and in most high powered industries. I would think they think twice about it now. But then...
A full analysis of the guests to Epstein Island requires a calculation of the "grossness factor" among the clients. Yes, money and power will get you a date on the mainland somewhere along the Reptile Resemblance (RR) curve. But here is a non-island point of diminishing returns when ratio of time invested to actual date rises to unacceptable levels. And we all agree, time is money. Other factors cloud the data, as in, "super geezer power" to hire actresses or control federal hiring. Some AI may be required.
I appreciate you saying this. A lot of people think this whole Epstein thing is the key to "the cabal" that is running the world, and nothing less than full exposure of the "cabal" will satisfy them. What if it's just not that deep?
My main takeaway other than another well documented and informative piece by Matt is that this must be what he was referring to when he mentioned he was going to be a very unpopular journalist next week
There are far too many people who just want to believe a narrative no matter how much proof to the contrary there is. Or in this case, no proof at all to support their cherished views
Matt Taibbi dropping truth bombs like it’s 1945 Dresden.
Keep up the great work Matt.....you're a national treasure.
Your update dropped down while reading today’s expose…. I shall quote my Dad who said this sparingly “ what a clusterfuck.”
Or, more delicately, fustercluck.
Its pretty clear we have become LITERALLY retarded as a Society. We currently exist in a world of pretty much nothing but 'narrative laundering'. I wonder where the edge of the cliff is....
That destination is Idiocracy, and whoever is driving has their foot on the gas right through the floorboard.
It might be one foot away...
Thank you for the clarity of your thinking, the integrity of your process, and the forthrightness to speak the truth to stupidity in power.
Fair enough. Let's drop "ring" and replace it with "random caravan of wealthy men traveling to the island of women of various ages." Having seen the photos, they weren't there for the deluxe accommodations, were they.
But then that wouldn't be much different than what you usually get with wealthy men and young women. Are we going to investigate the typical rock band tour caravan or professional athletes in town for a game caravan? There's ugly shit in the world, and most of it we shrug our shoulders at.
Sad and deplorable to consider—young lives sacrificed for those who can pay.
Perfect. Wealthy men who need to be exposed as johns, charged with sex crimes like every other john should be, and also, those who abused minor girls/boys sent to jail for statutory rape.
Charged by the same govt that has had this evidence all of this time, right? Because now you get to see some redacted information that won't substantiate a crime.
How fucking stupid do people have to be?
I appreciate your parsing the muck for us, Matt.
I think Epstein’s real money came from being the person managing the sales of weapons throughout the world. Darryl Cooper and Mike Benz do some really good analysis of this. So, it makes sense that Epstein would have a very diverse set of friends who liked to be with someone who could get them young p**y and seemed to float above the law. Until he didn’t. What’s surprising to me is I haven’t heard a lot about what happened during the summer of 2019 when someone/entity said ‘ok, Epstein has to go’. Cause, he was gone quickly, whether by his own hand or not.
derp dee derp dee doo
Matt will write article after article about epstein not trafficking woman, the thing he was convicted for, but he wont spend one hour doing actual journalism about epstein.
He was not convicted for trafficking women. He was not convicted for trafficking women. He was not convicted for trafficking women…
You are correct, I misspoke. Only convicted for sex with underage girls and federally charged with sex trafficking, during which he committed suicide before trial.
Any comment on my other facts listed?
Girl singular. One day before she turned 18. Did you read the story?
The hat tightens.....
Now now boys, you’re making Mr Hat mad. Aka, The Mad Hatter?!
Ad hominem attacks and name-calling seem to be the preferred approach to disagreement around here. Far too often.
Nah it’s just humor. That one was just teed up just right. Try it.
Good one! See my comment to your idiotic comments listing the facts involved. Going to say Maxwell wasn't convicted of sex trafficking as his accomplice also?
What could possibly explain Maxwell’s conviction if she had not been working with or for Epstein?
Maxwell's conviction was directly tied to conspiring with Epstein to recruit and traffic victims for sex abuse.
You’re still wrong
Good talk!
Still wrong.
Ghislaine Maxwell, his partner and associate, was convicted in 2021 for sex trafficking minors. Her conviction was directly tied to conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to recruit, traffic, and abuse minors. That and a few hundred million in settlements of hundreds of victims. And the thousands of pages of work by good journalists documenting the case.
He was federally charged with sex trafficking minors. Mayhe just on rumors tho
that's the hill you're gonna defend? splitting hairs over semantics?
the moral outrage is because he trafficked female minors, he trafficked female minors, he trafficked female minors ...
Ghislaine Maxwell WAS convicted of conspiring with Epstein to traffick women! Her convictions--for conspiring with Epstein to commit sex crimes--are the very definition of a sex ring.
She was convicted, and is in prison for conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to sexually exploit and abuse MULTIPLE MINOR GIRLS over the course of a decade.
She also was convicted of conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts, transporting minors to participate in illegal sex acts, sex trafficking conspiracy, and sex trafficking of a minor.
The only thing missing from the official record are the identities of the males who Epstein/Maxwell trafficked the girls to.
"GHISLANE MAXWELL was sentenced today in Manhattan federal court by United States Circuit Judge Alison J. Nathan to 240 months in prison for her role in a scheme to sexual exploit and abuse multiple minor girls with Jeffrey Epstein over the course of a decade. MAXWELL was previously found guilty on December 29, 2021, following a one-month jury trial, of conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts, conspiracy to transport minors to participate in illegal sex acts, transporting a minor to participate in illegal sex acts, sex trafficking conspiracy, and sex trafficking of a minor."
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ghislaine-maxwell-sentenced-20-years-prison-conspiring-jeffrey-epstein-sexually-abuse
Again, none of that is in dispute. Its also not the fucking point. What IS the point being made is that, until names are named, by somebody, anybody, there is nothing but conjecture and its wily cousin, conspiracy. And, since we as a Public have been fed so much utter bullshit about so much in such a short timeline, some fatigue is not only understandable, but to be expected.
Try reading the DOJ announcement of Maxwell's conviction slowly. I'll put the key words in caps to help.
"Wily cousin, conspiracy." Note that Maxwell was convicted of CONSPIRACY--WITH EPSTEIN!
Excerpt below, and link to full announcement below that:
"GHISLANE MAXWELL was sentenced today in Manhattan federal court by United States Circuit Judge Alison J. Nathan to 240 months in prison for her role in a scheme to sexual exploit and abuse MULTIPLE MINOR GIRLS with JEFFREY EPSTEIN over the course of a DECADE. MAXWELL was previously found guilty on December 29, 2021, following a one-month jury trial, of CONSPIRACY to entice MINORS to travel to engage in ILLEGAL SEX ACTS, CONSPIRACY to transport minors to participate in illegal sex acts, transporting a minor to participate in illegal sex acts, sex trafficking CONSPIRACY, and sex trafficking of a minor."
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ghislaine-maxwell-sentenced-20-years-prison-conspiring-jeffrey-epstein-sexually-abuse
Ummm...ok? And?
Tell us WHO is involved, besides Epstein and Maxwell, and I'll throw myself on the barricades with ya. Otherwise...dunno what to tell ya
Shockingly idiotic. Did anyone name any names in that comment? Do you think they trafficked the girls to no one? You are using strawman argument saying that because someone made one accusation that can't be proven therefore it wasn't a sex ring. How dumb.
Wtf is ur point here Bri? Theres no strawman or idiocy in anything Taibbi wrote. Nor I. Learn what that shit ACTUALLY means wouldya?
What IS idiocy is just shouting out more garbage in order to...what? Im tellin ya man...ur not gonna get a new hat for pissing into the wind, or for being another righteous indignation warrior, or whatever tf ur on about. Jfc dude...
Saying "what sex ring" is ignorant and idiotic, obviously. It's the anti journalist in this case.
1. $290 million paid by JP Morgan Chase to over 200 victims of sex trafficking.
2. Miami Herald identified 80+ victims of his sex trafficking.
3. Federal indictments and court cases identifying hundreds of victims.
4. His partner and associate being convicted of sex trafficking minors with him.
5. Him being federally charged with sex trafficking.
6. Matt Taibbi writes "what sex ring?"
Hahaha laughable how twisted you'd have to be to think youre a smart journalist for saying that.
His accomplice wasnt convicted for sex trafficking and he didn't commit suicide after being charged with sex trafficking (three times fast!)
He got a sweetheart plea bargain because important men don’t think ruining the lives of young girls matters very much.
seems ur hat is on too tight Brian?
Did u not comprehend what's being said here? Jfc....
Clearly. Matt is desperate to ask, "what sex ring?
1. Epstein was charged with sex trafficking and committed suicide before his trial.
2. Epstein was accused by many dozens of women in sworn testimony that they were trafficked by epstein to powerful men.
3. Epstein was rumored to be trafficking woman, specifically underage women, by dozens of sources. (Endless citations) ask Mrs McCain.
4. Maxwell was charged and convicted of sex trafficking as his accomplice and is currently in prison.
Please dispute these facts.
Anyone who claims to be a journalist who would say, "what sex ring?", is obviously either an idiot or is obfuscating on purpose. You can pick whichever you prefer.
No one is denying shit went on meathead....but where, when, to whom, etc. is whats pertinent here...and ACTUAL journalism involves knowing the diff btwn gossip, rumor, etc and consciously NOT following that crap. But, as I said elsewhere, its the jockeying for narrative that is paramount now. Do u prefer that one more guy (Taibbi) just throw more garbage into the fire? And then what?
Apparently asking what sex ring isnt denying there's a sex ring to you, meathead. And apparently it somehow refutes something? Who said where or when or whom? Still can't refute the facts I listed? Matt has been jockeying for narrative- the narrative the epstein was not trafficking women to powerful men. Which could only be believed if you were a clueless idiot and didn't want to read for 5 minutes.
That is not what I wrote. Or what Michael wrote. I’m not saying definitively Epstein didn’t traffic to third parties. I’m saying there is no evidence of this. Neither of his criminal cases even allege it. The only stories suggesting this came from highly questionable narrators in civil cases, and the allegations are all vague:unnamed powerful men at unnamed times and dates, mentioned years after conflicting stories. It’s possible, but it’s not supported. As for Trump I don’t care what the files say about him - if he made jokes about rolling with underage girls, let’s see it. It’s not like his history makes that unlikely. But his history isn’t evidence. The whole point is to get back to what the evidence says. Which isn’t much, when it comes to people apart from Epstein.
Hey Google! Was Ghislaine Maxwell convicted of directly conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to sex traffic minors? Hey google, tell Matt so he stops embarrassing himself!
Forget it Matt...some folks just choose to be dim.
I wonder if Bri knows BJG?
He committed suicide while being literally charged with sex trafficking. There are more than a few dozen of sworn And his partner and associate Maxwell was charged and convicted of trafficking minors, with sworn, corroborated testimonies, in court, on the record. Maybe I just don't know what evidence means? To be a journalist and say nothing is ever official unless you find a written note in blood by the person admitting their guilt is ridiculous. You are ignoring overwhelming evidence and underplaying the available evidence. Including the over 1,000 victims (only according to the FBI and Dept of Justice).
Mmk Bri...whatever u say, boyo. Keep that hat on tight, chum...it'll help save oxygen for the rest of us.
Solid stuff TWC! Great conversation with you!
Lol
Imagine if people cared that much about the underage victims of the extensive grooming gangs in the UK. Or the pimps actively running wild in places like Seattle, where the government funded a convicted kiddie pimp. Is this really about the girls, or just Trump... again?
Done. 1) Epstein was charged in the most recent case and committed suicide in jail. The case was dropped because he was dead and there was no conviction. 2) "Epstein was accused by many women in sworn testimony ..." . Those were civil cases, those women were suing for money. Thus the "sworn testimony" resulted in zero convictions for criminal activity. 3) Epstein was rumored to be trafficking women is just that - rumors. It is of zero significance outside the henhouse. 4) Maxwell was convicted independently of conspiracy to entice, conspiracy to transport, transporting, sex trafficking and conspiracy to sex traffick. The convictions all related to minor girls. Her convictions were upheld by the appellate court and the Supreme Court declined to take her case. She currently has pending a petition for a writ of habeas corpus. The basis of that petition is an allegation of "substantial new evidence" that undermines the convictions. Epstein's only conviction was in the 2008 Florida case and was for solicitation of prostitution and solicitation of prostitution with a minor. This case was where the allegation pertaining to the 14 year old was involved but it is my understanding her allegations did not result in conviction. Furtheore it does not appear any of the women were charged with prostitution. PTL courts do not operate on feels, rumors , or "what everybody knows. Rather they proceed on admissable evidence which has been verified and authenticated. Testimonial evidence is subject to cross-examination. This was MTs point. He wants to see the evidence, not the accusation.
So his accomplice and partner was in fact convicted of sex trafficking of minors.
And he was accused in sworn testimony by dozens (over 100?) women of trafficking to other men.
And he was rumored by dozens of sources on record to be trafficking minors to powerful men.
Thanks for confirming.
So far Maxwell is convicted. Rumors and accusations are not proof. As for Epstein himself the proof will never come. But you know, since you are good with rumor as fact, the rumor is he was murdered. And not by Maxwell. The simple truth is that I do not know what happened with Epstein. Taibbi does not know what happened with Epstein. But neither do you.
Am I asking what sex ring as a journalist? Or am I looking at the totality of information available and presenting facts?
Was Maxwell his partner and associate, living with him and traveling with him and trafficking women for him? Obviously. You'd have to not have a brain to pretend Maxwell is separate and was sex trafficking all by herself while living and traveling and working with epstein as his partner.
Hey man, just cause there’s a shitload of smoke coming out of the house’s windows doesn’t mean it’s on fire.
Did the house actually admit in writing that it's on fire?
But yea, what sex ring??
I don't think that anyone here is claiming Epstein is an innocent, however your complaint against Matt doesn't hold up. An actual journalist reports verifiable facts. You, in reality, have no concrete evidence, only supposition. Maybe you've been conditioned to believe that actual hard evidence is not needed. Lord knows the legacy media has pushed that notion for the last 10 years. You had better hope that you never tick off the "wrong" people and find yourself defending against rumors, because according to your metrics for conviction, well...don't bend over to grab the soap.
Pretty good effort, but noting that there was no conviction because of a dead defendant is not exactly a refutation.
It’s obvious
Matt was one of Epsteins lackeys!…….Or, perhaps
He just remains obsessed with with the truth rather than pandering bullshit to those obsessed with Epstein
He remains obsessed with tying Epstein questions to people who have Trump Derangement Syndrome, which I don't. Some of us have been calling for investigations into Epstein's activities long before dems tried to use it for politics. And pretending to deny Epstein was involved with sex trafficking, among other serious crimes, makes you into an ignorant, anti-journalist hack.
Up to you to provide your source material and evidence, asshole.
Otherwise, you're just another internet moron who believes whatever is posted to further your belief.
Touch more grass, psycho.
And stop posting.
He provided it you clown.
He provided nothing. As in zilch.
You sound like the MSM, just making shit up.
What part is made up?
None of its made up...it just isn't there
You didn’t read his article?or Michael Tracey’s, did you? Might want to try that.
No I didn't fucking read Michael Tracey's article. Are you joking?
I stopped reading your comment when you said Epstein committed suicide.
How man girls did Epstein kidnap anyway?
Riiiightt…? I betchyaa it was a lot…anyway lets get that guy!—I mean, wait, who are we supposed to get?
;-)
Is your retardation new, or have you had it your entire life? Asking for a friend.
Save it. There are plenty of others who will pretend to know something while they pull their leads from Chat GPT and you will probably be happy to read them.
Are you F’G retarded??? Why yes, yes you are🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hmm. Except he wasn’t convicted of that
I’ve never been an Epstein fanatic, but as I see it, the most suspicious thing about him is how fast and how high he rose with no talent, connections, or accomplishments.
How does a college dropout without a teaching credential get a teaching job at an elite private school? When he gets fired from that job for allegations of impropriety, how does he quickly get hired by the elite NYC investment firm run by the father of one of his students, in spite of having no experience in finance?
Matt’s right, the evidence that Epstein was running a sexual blackmail ring is circumstantial. But if blackmail isn’t the reason that throughout his career, Epstein was repeatedly able to get powerful men to give him things, you have to wonder, what WAS the reason? Epstein would have to have had some kind of brilliance or charisma that I just don’t see evidence of.
Do you guys remember Bernie Madoff? Not that he was involved in sex stuff, but he was a con man and a lot of very smart people made him super rich. He even fooled the SEC. Epstein was a con man too .
Yes. And Madoff apparently did know a lot about the machinery of NSDAQ. (It is my understanding that he helped found it.) He just found being a con man was a more reliable path to wealth.
Apparently he was not talentless. It seems he was pretty good at math; good enough to teach it at the high school level. Being a college dropout is obviously not always a sign of lack of ability. Some dropouts usually named as examples are Bill Gates, Edwin Land (Polaroid), Steve Jobs, etc.
It does seem though that blackmail was also in his skill set.
Sorry, but that’s a ludicrous argument. That’s like saying apparently Hunter Biden was pretty good at fossil fuel extraction, as proven by the fact that he was handed a job on the board at a Ukrainian energy company in spite of his lack of credentials.
I’ve been in education for over 20 years, and I can assure you people don’t get teaching jobs at elite NYC prep schools because they’re “good at” the subject they teach. The parents writing checks to these elite schools are doing so because the faculty either have advanced degrees from prestigious schools, or impressive careers and accomplishments in those fields. I agree you don’t need a college degree to be smart. But Bill Gates and Steve Jobs created products that sold in the hundreds of millions. I don’t think Epstein got rich by being good at solving for X
I work in higher education and I've seen plenty of un- and under-qualified rise up. Sometimes life is who you know, how you talk, and how you manipulate.
Yeah, that was my point. For this story to make sense, Epstein would have to be either brilliant or silver-tongued. Show me any proof of either
He seemed to have been "silver-tongued" enough to fool, or at least charm, a lot of fairly accomplished people.
Or he blackmailed them
Well I’m done states you can become school superintendent’s while not being a citizen and having an arrest record.
But he DID teach Math at a private school for awhile. So he got the gig through connections despite the fact he knew nothing about the subject? Now THAT'S a "sweet gig".
If he got the teaching job through the offices of wealthy and influential friends maybe they could have gotten him a job in a field in which he had some knowledge and competence instead of Math?
I did not say nor have I read anyone saying Epstein became wealthy by knowing how to solve for X.
You said he had talent in math. I’m saying I doubt talent in math is what got him that job. I won’t dispute he was good at math. I’m sure he was great at math. There are plenty of people out there who can teach high school math quite well, some with college decrees, some without. Most of them could not get a job at an elite NYC prep school. Whatever game Epstein was running, it wasn’t the math game.
I will adjust my most recent comment upon reading yours. You did not opine he was bad in Math.
It’s cool, I get that you’re not paying much attention to my arguments
I'd have to go back and check the exact words and sentence construction but I don't believe I wrote I thought he got the teaching job because he was good at Math. I wrote having the job indicates he was good enough in Math to get the job no matter how he actually got it. Even without having that job I find no particular reason to believe he was not mathematically competent, if not gifted. If you think he was not good in Math why do you think that?
I'm not going to review everything I wrote but maybe I wasn't clear enough. I think it was likely he got his teaching job through connections but he would not have gotten it if he didn't have some competence in the subject. There I do not think he was "talentless".
What are you talking about? What connections? He was a nobody. What talent? He had no accomplishments.
I’m saying there is a gap in the explanation of how he rose to the top. A curious person who wanted to report news would try to look into that gap, not explain it away
A "curious person" would do a little research and be open minded. There does not seem to be any mysterious "gap".
No, you’re right, he was a good math teacher so he got tens of millions of dollars. I don’t see a gap
He started tutoring classmates in MATH while in Junior High. He impressed a parent of one of the students he tutored enough to be offered a job at the investment/stock firm Bear Stearns after graduating from high school at age 16 after skipping two grades. (I know what that is like. I did the same thing in the same school system. Skipped third and eighth grades. He attended P.S. 188. I went to P.S. 182.). He was not "talentless". Why do you insist he was?
I’m not insisting he’s talentless. I’m saying talent isn’t what got him his island, or that job at Bear Stearns. I also believe that you have talent at math, just as much as Epstein. What sea is your island in? What elite New York financial firm did you get a job at?
... Therefore I do not think he was "talentless".
Read this week’s NYT article about Epstein’s rise.
Epstein was a nice looking young guy, apparently smart enough to teach math and physics convincingly. And play piano. What's not to like? How did Elizabeth Holmes get big shots to invest in Theranos?
And Elizabeth Holmes got the big shots to invest in Theranos by convincing them she had a suitcase-sized device that could give quick, accurate blood tests. She gave demonstrations where this seemed to work. What was the narrative Epstein was selling?
This might sound absurd but there are actually nice looking guys who are good at math and play the piano who DON’T own their own islands. I almost think “what’s not to like” might not be an adequate explanation for how a non-island-owner becomes an island-owner
That is what I think too. It was about more than sex.
There is always very good pay for psychopaths.
Welcome to capitalism.
Yeah, that's different from Socialism where there is always good jobs for psychopaths. (Maduro, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Castro, etc.)
By definition capitalism doesn't need defending. It is the exercise of power. Power doesn't need a pep talk or cheerleaders--it's fucking power. When you can back it up, you don't need spandex back up dancers.
Being a psychopath is incredibly important in the raw exercise of power. Morality is one of the biggest obstacles to all power.
Epstein's marketable and very valuable talent was being a psychopath.
Side note: Capitalism eats cheerleaders whole--by definition. Think about it.
Socialism eats ... countries ... whole. Think about it.
Not adequately blowing Floyd doesn't mean I love Zeppelin. (they both have some great stuff--sure there is some filler--and drugs, but still epic runs)
But frankly, my last post was an ode to capitalism.
Power is not a bad word.
Let me try this--and this applies to socialism, capitalism, and cheerleaders.
What submits will be eaten.
Ok.
As has been pointed to: Epstein had an 11 figure 'lifestyle' while his books showed a 9 figure fortune. Doubtful we'll ever know what he was
I don't even know what a "11 figure lifestyle is". As far as I know he did not have a mega yacht and from the pictures I've seen, "Pedo Island" was not all that impressive.
Seems to me that Epstein was a fairly ordinary sex obsessed bloke who liked youngish women and was prepared to pay for them. Lots of them.
As Matt says, there appear to be very few under 18 years old. So they were pretty well all adult women who acquiesced in the arrangement, largely for money. Isn't this viewed by feminists as female empowerment? Although feminists do seem to like to jump around if they can see what they call a 'power imbalance'. Not sure what rock they've lived under all their lives, but either women are entitled to have sex for money (or do it for free) or they're not. You can't have it both ways, as in 'it's all right some of the time, but not when it's someone we've decided to hate'.
My guess is there are a lot more people out there in the world who're doing WAY more sordid things than Epstein ever did. The lawyer Matt mentions above said he'd rate Epstein about a 4 out of 10 on the sordid scale. Sounds about right. My brother is a lawyer who deals with this sort of stuff a fair bit (poor him), and he sees many more sicko things than this in his job. And he's only one lawyer out of many thousands working on these sort of cases. Not just in America, but all over the world.
You know what I wish? I wish the mainstream media would actually do something useful and start exposing slavery around the world. It's largely women, often young girls. Now that'd be something really decent the media could get their teeth into. But for some reason, they prefer to exaggerate and lie about something pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things. Shame really. Such a waste of power the media could wield for good.
It is maddening that so many people are such shallow drama addicts who don't let real truth get in the way of their perversions. My husband and I worked with a group called "Truckers Against Trafficking" about a decade ago as well as unwittingly helping a person break free from her traffickers. Epstein is NOT the face of sex trafficking. These people who are obsessed with this seem perverted themselves to me. They do go on and on about it ad nauseum.
Right. I investigated child abuse for years. There is no comparison between what likely happened here and the forcible rape of VERY young children.
All ages and the seven years once trapped in the life doesn't discriminate. If they are 12 or 14 they probably won't make it to be able to buy beer legally. No proms, first dates, college memories, marriage... Modern day slavery.
I was referring to the Epstein case. Specifically, the 17-18 year old.
Oh, I was talking about human trafficking. Epstein was so gross. What a creep. I can't say anything good about him.
I thought it was a good article because I've known all along it was exaggerated. It's clear what a scumbag Bill Clinton is, but we didn't need to know about Epstein to know it. We've always known it. Trump at least threw the guy out of Mara-lago, so he figured out he was disgusting --on many levels. But he did it and a LONG time ago. I listened to Megyn Kelly who says there isn't that much "there there." Though there's no denying Epstein was also a huge scum bag. Whether he was tied in with Israel's intelligence or whatever, or ours, could be SOME truth to that even if informally -- could be why he got away with stuff. But I think Michael is accurate and I'm sick to death of hearing about it. But listening to that girl's description of Epstein in Michael's article was interesting and enlightening. The real deal is that powerful men did this stuff back then and in most high powered industries. I would think they think twice about it now. But then...
A full analysis of the guests to Epstein Island requires a calculation of the "grossness factor" among the clients. Yes, money and power will get you a date on the mainland somewhere along the Reptile Resemblance (RR) curve. But here is a non-island point of diminishing returns when ratio of time invested to actual date rises to unacceptable levels. And we all agree, time is money. Other factors cloud the data, as in, "super geezer power" to hire actresses or control federal hiring. Some AI may be required.
I appreciate you saying this. A lot of people think this whole Epstein thing is the key to "the cabal" that is running the world, and nothing less than full exposure of the "cabal" will satisfy them. What if it's just not that deep?
Dude, don’t respond to reader emails. You’ll drive yourself crazy!
It’s about power. Sex was a pastime and a hook. All assholes all the time.
My main takeaway other than another well documented and informative piece by Matt is that this must be what he was referring to when he mentioned he was going to be a very unpopular journalist next week
There are far too many people who just want to believe a narrative no matter how much proof to the contrary there is. Or in this case, no proof at all to support their cherished views