^^^This! I get so tired of Dems saying "How could anyone vote for Trump" from their cushy little pedestals. They have no clue what it's like for the working class in this country - nor do they care. BTW, I am a former Dem. The people who voted for Trump are not stupid. They knew he would be a shitty President. But they also knew that he would piss off the establishment. And they liked that he lacked a filter. The establishment is so filtered and polite that they will make promises with one hand while they are stabbing you in the back with the other. I don't think it's any mystery why people supported Trump. Dems pretend ignorance and innocence on this because if they truly wanted to know why, they'd have to look at and engage with working class people and deal with the fact that they've been shafting the working class via Federal policy for decades. And they've become far too snobby and addicted to money to ever get that real. It serves them to pretend they don't see the suffering of their fellow citizens. The way they try to dehumanize and discredit these people is disgusting and one of the main reasons I stopped voting Dem after Kerry.
It's a tragedy that information is transferable, but experience is not.
I've always thought the best thing that could happen to a person is to absolutely lose their shirt at some point in their adult life. We prefer success, but understand through failure.
There is nothing you can tell those who have never lost what that feels like. I don't think they pretend to not care so much as it's invisible to them.
Years ago I took a vacation to an upscale overseas resort built in a relatively poor country. I was sitting by the pool where we were enjoying tropical drinks, splashing, laughing and eating far too much. Just across the metal fence from the pool were the natives who were clearly living a very different reality. I'm sure all the people by the pool were looking at other people by the pool and feeling comparatively impoverished more than they were looking outside the fence and feeling successful.
It's not that the people don't care, it's that they are looking elsewhere and lack the life experience needed to process what they are not looking at and even if they did look, then what? In the case of the homeless here at home who can no longer be hidden the solution is primarily Potemkin village police sweeps. For those a few rungs further up the ladder, it was subprime loans in 2008 and gig jobs ever since.
One other thing. Lots of people here in flyover America live modestly and are quite happy. What is galling and vote motivating is watching the destruction of the country, breaking of laws, different rules being applied to different belief systems. The fundamental changes sought by this Democratic Party are telling those people they and their history don't count, and are in fact, evil. They can forget their future and the future for their children.
I'm sympathetic to your first point. I come from the Coast where they often brag about their wealth and federal tax revenue that they believe supports programs in fly over country such as farm subsidies.
True or not, fly over country has always provided the majority of those the military sends to die and it was not a bank in Wichita that blew up the entire economy in 2008 that required a national bail out. It was also not the elites from fly over country that ensured those who blew up the system were made financially whole while everyone not in their club was left with speeches about how the free market works as they lost everything.
On the point about those out breaking the laws and seeking fundamental change, They have far more in common with Trump supporters than anyone cares to admit.
I ignore the 2 dimensional caricatures. There are always extremists that end up front and center in the media, but I think if you met them in person you would have more sympathy than you realize. They have lived under a system where legal and political process has been weaponized to ensure tales they lose, heads the other side wins. It's an old game where those in power rig every peaceful process for change that they don't support, than feign outrage when those outside the system decide to no longer play by the rules. If you live in a place where those who hold power are lawless, it's not surprising many will grow to resent that system and want to burn it down.
Well, there it is in blazing colors. No stranger to working class here, but you said what I still don't get, which is the primary reason folks voted for him is he is a human middle finger to the Dems. I don't dispute any of other stuff you said. I'm in construction and see it all the time, but taking action with the specific intent to piss someone off is as constructive as shitting on my dinner plate. I'm still working off my premise that most folks don't have a single fucking idea about potential consequences when a middle finger gets pushed into one's face, nor would they like for a second what a collapsed system would mean for them, let alone the country. OTOH, I do understand that voting for HRC was a completely disgusting proposition.
Your logic is sound. But, this is not a logical problem. It's an emotional one. People get angry when they are devalued and when you give them no other out, they will use the finger if that's all they have. How desperate do you think these "left behind" people are? I grew up in a county in NY state that was both Appalachian and Rust Belt and I saw the hollowing out with my own two eyes.
Politicians gaslight these people who are screaming that Federal policy is destroying their communities with platitudes and bullshit - all to line their pockets and the pockets of the businesses that are playing slave-wage arbitrage.
Maybe globalization was inevitable. But they rub salt in the wound when they act like it doesn't matter - let's just get past it - while valorizing black cultural pain almost to the point of worship. All human pain matters, damn it - whether black or white or any other color (sadly, I'm an old-school leftie that still believes this as unfashionable as it has become) - and if government's purpose is only to work for certain demographics, then we have lost the thread on the left. If we abandon Universal human rights efforts, we are toast, and our cause is no longer just.
And I, for one, don't support the fascist-light ideologies emanating from my side of the political divide. Revenge, reverse discrimination, outright in-your-face dehumanization of white people, indoctrination of our youth with quasi-religious beliefs - not gonna fly with me. Even as I observe some of the regressive social attitudes of those in the working class. Doesn't mean we have a right to strip them of their right to be seen and heard, even if some of their cries are racist and/or vacuous.
I will never support blatant discrimination against whites as a tool to rectify wrongs of the past (Kendi). That said, I strongly support practical measures to rebuild black cultural wealth through education and uplift - training programs, educational initiatives, even group therapy in certain cases.
Regardless, I think my ideas are non-starters for the simple reason that the powerful don't want anyone at the bottom - black or white ro any other color - to build cultural currency for the very simple reason that it serves their interests to keep people down and controllable. And nothing achieves this objective like cultural division. I know this is cynical, but that's how I see things these days.
It's going to require individuals of unusual spirit and pluck to break through this net of negativity and remind us all that freedom includes the freedom to swim upstream and stand up against the mob. This type of individuality is quintessentially American and I hope we have enough of them to turn the tide of toxic ideology currently sweeping the country.
One, not sound logic (your first sentence). One has to understand how people end up in positions of power politically. We don't have a universality of choices. Again, look to Bush v Gore. The person who put China in the WTO was Bush, a real incompetent. But look at Biden, constantly telling us he'll get in trouble for what he might say. He's obviously not in charge but since he's a Democrat, it's OK? Radical leftists are in charge with a radical idiology. Garland is exposed as a hack. Lucky he was never made it to the Supreme Court. Everything is a hall of mirrors. We have ignored our education system that has FAILED to teach critical thinking. Obama had power for 8 years. What did he leave us? More corporate consolidation. Wrong about the working class too. They are NOT regressive. What does a degree in women's studies buy you or any other assortment of stupid majors at schools charging $60,000. a year? Plumbers and electricians are making more money than most in the professional class. Maybe some people have common sense and elites don't have it. This country has lost its way and we have seen with our own eyes outright corruption of our institutions. A realignment is underway because this country is not inherently racist...it's a diversion from the real agenda...which is something more ominous. Trump started calling the media FAKE NEWS which is exactly what it is. Propaganda. Follow the money...It will lead everywhere.
What annoys me is that much of the popular тАЬresistanceтАЭ to legitimate outrage against D/woke/ is just a constant spluttering of OAN buzzwords and talking points. IтАЩve fond myself getting annoyed with friends not over substance per se, but just repetitive whining and an unwillingness to discuss/investigate/read further. IтАЩve told-give your children or nieces and nephews some George Orwell or Thomas Jefferson to read, or make them listen Colion Noir on YouTube-you are an adult!
Bob Marley said тАЬEmancipate yourself from mental slavery/None but you can free your mindтАЭ. People on the right are slow to do that-and by refusing, they allow their legitimate grievances/fears/positions to be shunted aside. Joe Rogan is always talking about how it is good to do difficult things-he meant standup comedy or extreme physical training-but fails to apply this to political thinking-his guests nudge him, but he isnтАЩt quite there yet-and most Trump voters arenтАЩt either.
It's the opposite. The Democrats are the ones with the radical agenda that helps corporations. They want open borders to keep wages down and themselves in power. They want to get along with China so corporations can continue to get products made by cheap or slave labor. Who is regressive? Meanwhile these same liars rant about a minimum wage while they create inflation and allow Chinese corporations to be listed on US stock exchanges without the same accountability as US corporations. US corporations are funding the Chinese communist party. Look at Blinken in Alaska. It was embarrassing. Joe Rogan isn't lying all the time or a propaganda organ. It's Democrats who refuse to debate. It's Democrats/left who talk about systemic racism...because we all know that China isn't racist. China is colonizing African countries but no one on the left is worried about the NEW colonialism. Buzz words on OAN? How about lies constantly repeated verbatim on every corporate platform?
I wasnтАЩt speaking to the venality, corruption, and hypocrisy of the Ds, I was simply speaking to the intellectual foundations of the OAN crowd-which are lacking. I voted for Trump last year and supported much of what he accomplished during his term in office. That said, anyone trying to transform TrumpтАЩs needed presence as a disruptive force into a long term, coherent agenda is in for a rude awakening.
Ultimately, you can think that....until the disastrous new education mandate of 1619 comes to a school near your children...or the cost of living hits you....when you are personally impacted by bad policy...you change your tune. People forget the good times. Gore would have been a far better President than Bush. But people thought the good times would last and Gore was a zero as a politician. Everything must be looked at from the lens of powerful monied interests. Corporations and Big Tech supported Obama and Biden...that should tell you something.
Totally agree except it is far worse than that. What they did to Trump was a coup and we discovered there were no institutions to protect us from the security state. As soon as some Dems see what's happening in their own communities, we'll see what happens. How long will mothers tolerate their children wearing masks or not going to school? When the Biden policies reveal a lower standard of living, higher gas prices and inflation, maybe what's happening will hit home. Trump also inadvertently revealed the cowardice of our elected officials...and the total failure to enforce anti-trust laws. Trump was terrible as an administrator. He had poor judgment in people. But look at Biden. The Dems are running the show for him. Here, Trump was betrayed by his own party who were revealed NOT to be an opposition party....thus the uniparty media, the uniparty BigTech, the uniparty corporations. Our federal system becomes significant now. And mothers enraged at what the state is doing to their children.
With 70 million people voting for President Trump no single explanation will work, but for those who voted for Obama then Trump, for those who see the riots this Summer in the same category as those who occupied the capital in January you will find the best answer in "The Rebel" by Albert Camus.
Camus describes the motivation for a terrorist in this book, but he might as well have been describing the politically disaffected in 2016 as well.
It's not just spite and nihilism, although those are strong justifications. At core it's the unique rage born from humiliation.
In a society where we believe financial success is a virtue and hard work in the path to that, millions had their hard work wiped out in 2008 and we are still feeling the reverberations today.
I think this Harper Article from 2014 captures much of what I am talking about for those approaching retirement{
Areslent: I certainly hope you read the game theory research. One quickly realizes that a relatively street-smart loser almost always looks to challenge the game and thus the legitimacy of their loss rather than the opponent they just lost to.
BillPD - what will game theory look like when the average American decides he needs to arm his family like Sad-ass husain - and starts buing up the vast arsenal of surplus military goods that only need a Black Amex and a few hundred grand?
It won't be worth the paper you used to game theory a resume on dude.
Funny you say "paper it's written on" since game theory is ironically considered the exact opposite of theory on paper--actually pitting people against each other.
The best active shooter training utilizes game theory in almost all aspects.
BTW, mine was not a criticism of Arselent, but rather further evidence.
Thanks for the link, but I think it's important to keep in mind that social security wasn't intended to bankroll universal 20 year retirements in sunny climates. When social security was first implemented in 1935, life expectancy was 58 for men and 62 for women. And the retirement age was 65. I certainly do have some empathy for the working elderly, but with increased life expectancy I also believe that the retirement age should be adjusted.
Try getting a job as a 55 year old in the IT industry where you've spent 30 years of your career building. They don't want you. Your comment about adjusting the retirement age assumes a level playing field.
Got that right. Adjusting the retirement age is just another ploy for them to configure their algorithms to calculate when the geezers are dying off in sufficient quantity as to not represent a threat at the polls. Any of the construction trades are easily toasted at 65, as are ALL of the essential services I keep hearing about that everyone is so glad to express their gratitude to but shaft in the ribs backstage...that are in that boat. Fuck adjusting the retirement age; we need a new program, if there's any program at all.
I don't know if you read the Harper story I linked, but that is what I took from it. There was no talk of how existing programs have failed them. It instead paints a portrait of their challenges that I think forces us to imagine a different system for retirement.
I did read it. Digression happens. I read the comments in here and sometimes wonder how the fuck people extrapolate from MT to God knows what else. Maybe I did it here.
As a +55 in the IT industry (not an engineer) i certainly understand your concern on this.
Personally i have constantly upgraded my skill set and volunteered to take on new challenges and learn about the latest and greatest far in advance of it becoming widly adapted. That give me the advantage of early adopter over skilled worker, where the young do have advantages..
This approach ha landed me in consulting but i am already planning my next move for 5yrs from now when i hit 60 i will get myself into role that values my charm, good looks and gray hair
The scourge of the best woman actresses. I feel for you, Moxie.
I have found that a few good programmers with lacking social skills have soured the market for what was once viewed as wizardry.
And the reality matches neither: a lot of tech pros in their fifties are great folks to be around yet are just normal roll-up-the-sleeves problem solvers like everyone else.
Sorry about that, but I was looking back to what I learned 30 years ago, about IT, and realized it was more useless than the random bits of minor league stats I remember for players from the 50s and 60s.
There is nothing with less value than outdated tech knowledge.
Sorry, didn't realize you were so prickly and thin-skinned. Bad combination. I've no doubt you've kept up and been treated unfairly. My comment was on the complete worthlessness of dated tech learning. It doesn't even form much of a useful foundation for understanding anything that's being done today. I changed fields, eventually.
Interesting, I did not take any of that (about social security and retirement age) from this story. Certainly I didn't read any of these retirees complaining or ever mentioning social security. They seem determined to make the most of a tough situation.
Well, I think it's sad to see elderly people working such jobs. But what's the solution? More social security? More welfare? Maybe. There was a common theme in that article that many lost their nest egg in the '08 crash. If we actually put bankers in jail for financial crimes, and there were plenty in '08,maybe we can prevent this from happening to the next generation. I can't imagine boomers having the same pick yourself up by the boostraps mentality as the silent generation.
I agree, but I think it's instructive that they do not find their situation "sad." No where in this article do I get the sense they are asking for help.
One thing I appreciated most about this article is that the author did not appear to be "sending a message."
I don't know if you've watched the movie "Nomadland" based on a book by this same author, but it's the same. It shows the challenges and victories of those who have lost everything, but purposely avoids the "and that's why we need to do this!" kind of journalism I find so exhausting.
I think we have reached a point where it is hard to simply admit someone is suffering because we feel like that means we must agree to a predetermined prescription. I think empathy has value and people know a con when you constantly tell them stories while shaking a collection plate at them.
I also find the people I want to help most are the people who ask for help least. I real a lot of heartbreak stories and simply shrug. This story touched me because it asked nothing of me. I find myself asking what we could do to make their life better.
Well, according to the author the people he interviewed seem to not mind working. But the representation we received may or may not have been accurate. And even if it was accurate, there is not reason to believe that the handful of subjects he interview are representative of the working elderly as a whole. The stores certainly make me feel very sympathetic, and like you I wish we as a society could do something to help them. But whenever someone starts jerking my emotional strings, I also have a voice in the back of my head asking who they are and what's their goal. There are far more Rachael Maddows and Bill O'Reillies out there than Upton Sinclairs.
If one goes back and reads enough history to know the background that informed FDR to implement most of his policies, and absolutely his policies related to China, they one would know that the mope was NOT some brilliant leader but just another sad ass rich guy making decisions on things he scarcely understood, or didn't understand at all. FDR was no hero for the future; he pretty much guaranteed disaster on multiple fronts, with SS being one of the programs leading the charge.
Kurtocracy you have an interesting take that seems to not fit my understanding, but may enrich it.
This is not an area of expertise for me, he said mea culping...but my reading of history of the concept of a social savings account started with the Kaiser.
My European history prof in high school gave ample evidence that it was the way Germany unified from a bunch of small "nation states" into a unified nation for the first time in...well...ever.
So it has me somewhat intrigued that though completely different paths, we both eventually arrive at the SS.
I don't believe in coincidences, but sometimes evidence moves like quicksilver.
It definitely originated during the Weimar Republic. ItтАЩs a cute idea for social stability predicated on conditions that are extremely dynamic. ThereтАЩs a reason China hasnтАЩt donтАЩt something similar yet; they know it can only go bad.
China: I think if the Kaiser had the ability to score people based on the level of enthusiastic support of the Weimer Repub and use it to make every last aspect of their lives miserable, a national social insurance carrot would have seemed stupid.
Of course IMO, making every decision based on keeping a lid on descent doesn't seem like a long-game winning strategy, either.
That was always my understanding, and he was the "Not-Hillary Candidate", which is a pretty good recommendation.
Then he gets in office, forgets which finger he's supposed to be, and starts tweeting like a 12-year-old with his own phone for the first time (yea, I know...). All he had to do was fake being Presidential for few hours a week!! Was that too much to ask? Well, apparently it was. Damn.
Human middle finger. He is a human middle finger indeed.
^^^This! I get so tired of Dems saying "How could anyone vote for Trump" from their cushy little pedestals. They have no clue what it's like for the working class in this country - nor do they care. BTW, I am a former Dem. The people who voted for Trump are not stupid. They knew he would be a shitty President. But they also knew that he would piss off the establishment. And they liked that he lacked a filter. The establishment is so filtered and polite that they will make promises with one hand while they are stabbing you in the back with the other. I don't think it's any mystery why people supported Trump. Dems pretend ignorance and innocence on this because if they truly wanted to know why, they'd have to look at and engage with working class people and deal with the fact that they've been shafting the working class via Federal policy for decades. And they've become far too snobby and addicted to money to ever get that real. It serves them to pretend they don't see the suffering of their fellow citizens. The way they try to dehumanize and discredit these people is disgusting and one of the main reasons I stopped voting Dem after Kerry.
It's a tragedy that information is transferable, but experience is not.
I've always thought the best thing that could happen to a person is to absolutely lose their shirt at some point in their adult life. We prefer success, but understand through failure.
There is nothing you can tell those who have never lost what that feels like. I don't think they pretend to not care so much as it's invisible to them.
Years ago I took a vacation to an upscale overseas resort built in a relatively poor country. I was sitting by the pool where we were enjoying tropical drinks, splashing, laughing and eating far too much. Just across the metal fence from the pool were the natives who were clearly living a very different reality. I'm sure all the people by the pool were looking at other people by the pool and feeling comparatively impoverished more than they were looking outside the fence and feeling successful.
It's not that the people don't care, it's that they are looking elsewhere and lack the life experience needed to process what they are not looking at and even if they did look, then what? In the case of the homeless here at home who can no longer be hidden the solution is primarily Potemkin village police sweeps. For those a few rungs further up the ladder, it was subprime loans in 2008 and gig jobs ever since.
good analysis
One other thing. Lots of people here in flyover America live modestly and are quite happy. What is galling and vote motivating is watching the destruction of the country, breaking of laws, different rules being applied to different belief systems. The fundamental changes sought by this Democratic Party are telling those people they and their history don't count, and are in fact, evil. They can forget their future and the future for their children.
I'm sympathetic to your first point. I come from the Coast where they often brag about their wealth and federal tax revenue that they believe supports programs in fly over country such as farm subsidies.
True or not, fly over country has always provided the majority of those the military sends to die and it was not a bank in Wichita that blew up the entire economy in 2008 that required a national bail out. It was also not the elites from fly over country that ensured those who blew up the system were made financially whole while everyone not in their club was left with speeches about how the free market works as they lost everything.
On the point about those out breaking the laws and seeking fundamental change, They have far more in common with Trump supporters than anyone cares to admit.
I ignore the 2 dimensional caricatures. There are always extremists that end up front and center in the media, but I think if you met them in person you would have more sympathy than you realize. They have lived under a system where legal and political process has been weaponized to ensure tales they lose, heads the other side wins. It's an old game where those in power rig every peaceful process for change that they don't support, than feign outrage when those outside the system decide to no longer play by the rules. If you live in a place where those who hold power are lawless, it's not surprising many will grow to resent that system and want to burn it down.
totally correct
Well, there it is in blazing colors. No stranger to working class here, but you said what I still don't get, which is the primary reason folks voted for him is he is a human middle finger to the Dems. I don't dispute any of other stuff you said. I'm in construction and see it all the time, but taking action with the specific intent to piss someone off is as constructive as shitting on my dinner plate. I'm still working off my premise that most folks don't have a single fucking idea about potential consequences when a middle finger gets pushed into one's face, nor would they like for a second what a collapsed system would mean for them, let alone the country. OTOH, I do understand that voting for HRC was a completely disgusting proposition.
Your logic is sound. But, this is not a logical problem. It's an emotional one. People get angry when they are devalued and when you give them no other out, they will use the finger if that's all they have. How desperate do you think these "left behind" people are? I grew up in a county in NY state that was both Appalachian and Rust Belt and I saw the hollowing out with my own two eyes.
Politicians gaslight these people who are screaming that Federal policy is destroying their communities with platitudes and bullshit - all to line their pockets and the pockets of the businesses that are playing slave-wage arbitrage.
Maybe globalization was inevitable. But they rub salt in the wound when they act like it doesn't matter - let's just get past it - while valorizing black cultural pain almost to the point of worship. All human pain matters, damn it - whether black or white or any other color (sadly, I'm an old-school leftie that still believes this as unfashionable as it has become) - and if government's purpose is only to work for certain demographics, then we have lost the thread on the left. If we abandon Universal human rights efforts, we are toast, and our cause is no longer just.
And I, for one, don't support the fascist-light ideologies emanating from my side of the political divide. Revenge, reverse discrimination, outright in-your-face dehumanization of white people, indoctrination of our youth with quasi-religious beliefs - not gonna fly with me. Even as I observe some of the regressive social attitudes of those in the working class. Doesn't mean we have a right to strip them of their right to be seen and heard, even if some of their cries are racist and/or vacuous.
I will never support blatant discrimination against whites as a tool to rectify wrongs of the past (Kendi). That said, I strongly support practical measures to rebuild black cultural wealth through education and uplift - training programs, educational initiatives, even group therapy in certain cases.
Regardless, I think my ideas are non-starters for the simple reason that the powerful don't want anyone at the bottom - black or white ro any other color - to build cultural currency for the very simple reason that it serves their interests to keep people down and controllable. And nothing achieves this objective like cultural division. I know this is cynical, but that's how I see things these days.
It's going to require individuals of unusual spirit and pluck to break through this net of negativity and remind us all that freedom includes the freedom to swim upstream and stand up against the mob. This type of individuality is quintessentially American and I hope we have enough of them to turn the tide of toxic ideology currently sweeping the country.
One, not sound logic (your first sentence). One has to understand how people end up in positions of power politically. We don't have a universality of choices. Again, look to Bush v Gore. The person who put China in the WTO was Bush, a real incompetent. But look at Biden, constantly telling us he'll get in trouble for what he might say. He's obviously not in charge but since he's a Democrat, it's OK? Radical leftists are in charge with a radical idiology. Garland is exposed as a hack. Lucky he was never made it to the Supreme Court. Everything is a hall of mirrors. We have ignored our education system that has FAILED to teach critical thinking. Obama had power for 8 years. What did he leave us? More corporate consolidation. Wrong about the working class too. They are NOT regressive. What does a degree in women's studies buy you or any other assortment of stupid majors at schools charging $60,000. a year? Plumbers and electricians are making more money than most in the professional class. Maybe some people have common sense and elites don't have it. This country has lost its way and we have seen with our own eyes outright corruption of our institutions. A realignment is underway because this country is not inherently racist...it's a diversion from the real agenda...which is something more ominous. Trump started calling the media FAKE NEWS which is exactly what it is. Propaganda. Follow the money...It will lead everywhere.
Good stuff, Lightwing. You should comment more.
What annoys me is that much of the popular тАЬresistanceтАЭ to legitimate outrage against D/woke/ is just a constant spluttering of OAN buzzwords and talking points. IтАЩve fond myself getting annoyed with friends not over substance per se, but just repetitive whining and an unwillingness to discuss/investigate/read further. IтАЩve told-give your children or nieces and nephews some George Orwell or Thomas Jefferson to read, or make them listen Colion Noir on YouTube-you are an adult!
Bob Marley said тАЬEmancipate yourself from mental slavery/None but you can free your mindтАЭ. People on the right are slow to do that-and by refusing, they allow their legitimate grievances/fears/positions to be shunted aside. Joe Rogan is always talking about how it is good to do difficult things-he meant standup comedy or extreme physical training-but fails to apply this to political thinking-his guests nudge him, but he isnтАЩt quite there yet-and most Trump voters arenтАЩt either.
It's the opposite. The Democrats are the ones with the radical agenda that helps corporations. They want open borders to keep wages down and themselves in power. They want to get along with China so corporations can continue to get products made by cheap or slave labor. Who is regressive? Meanwhile these same liars rant about a minimum wage while they create inflation and allow Chinese corporations to be listed on US stock exchanges without the same accountability as US corporations. US corporations are funding the Chinese communist party. Look at Blinken in Alaska. It was embarrassing. Joe Rogan isn't lying all the time or a propaganda organ. It's Democrats who refuse to debate. It's Democrats/left who talk about systemic racism...because we all know that China isn't racist. China is colonizing African countries but no one on the left is worried about the NEW colonialism. Buzz words on OAN? How about lies constantly repeated verbatim on every corporate platform?
I wasnтАЩt speaking to the venality, corruption, and hypocrisy of the Ds, I was simply speaking to the intellectual foundations of the OAN crowd-which are lacking. I voted for Trump last year and supported much of what he accomplished during his term in office. That said, anyone trying to transform TrumpтАЩs needed presence as a disruptive force into a long term, coherent agenda is in for a rude awakening.
Ultimately, you can think that....until the disastrous new education mandate of 1619 comes to a school near your children...or the cost of living hits you....when you are personally impacted by bad policy...you change your tune. People forget the good times. Gore would have been a far better President than Bush. But people thought the good times would last and Gore was a zero as a politician. Everything must be looked at from the lens of powerful monied interests. Corporations and Big Tech supported Obama and Biden...that should tell you something.
Totally agree except it is far worse than that. What they did to Trump was a coup and we discovered there were no institutions to protect us from the security state. As soon as some Dems see what's happening in their own communities, we'll see what happens. How long will mothers tolerate their children wearing masks or not going to school? When the Biden policies reveal a lower standard of living, higher gas prices and inflation, maybe what's happening will hit home. Trump also inadvertently revealed the cowardice of our elected officials...and the total failure to enforce anti-trust laws. Trump was terrible as an administrator. He had poor judgment in people. But look at Biden. The Dems are running the show for him. Here, Trump was betrayed by his own party who were revealed NOT to be an opposition party....thus the uniparty media, the uniparty BigTech, the uniparty corporations. Our federal system becomes significant now. And mothers enraged at what the state is doing to their children.
With 70 million people voting for President Trump no single explanation will work, but for those who voted for Obama then Trump, for those who see the riots this Summer in the same category as those who occupied the capital in January you will find the best answer in "The Rebel" by Albert Camus.
Camus describes the motivation for a terrorist in this book, but he might as well have been describing the politically disaffected in 2016 as well.
It's not just spite and nihilism, although those are strong justifications. At core it's the unique rage born from humiliation.
In a society where we believe financial success is a virtue and hard work in the path to that, millions had their hard work wiped out in 2008 and we are still feeling the reverberations today.
I think this Harper Article from 2014 captures much of what I am talking about for those approaching retirement{
https://harpers.org/archive/2014/08/the-end-of-retirement/
"The Rebel" best captures the experience for those under 40.
Areslent: I certainly hope you read the game theory research. One quickly realizes that a relatively street-smart loser almost always looks to challenge the game and thus the legitimacy of their loss rather than the opponent they just lost to.
It would appear to be a human trait.
I think your reference to game theory is correct.
For me, it's the elements of this process that game theory does not cover I find endlessly interesting.
It's always the shit you don't measure, isn't it.
If that doesn't sum up my decades of being a member of SSCP*, I don't know what does...
*The Society for a Science of Clinical Psychology (SSCP)
BillPD - what will game theory look like when the average American decides he needs to arm his family like Sad-ass husain - and starts buing up the vast arsenal of surplus military goods that only need a Black Amex and a few hundred grand?
It won't be worth the paper you used to game theory a resume on dude.
In re-reading your post, I'm not sure I am grokking the gist of your post, rick.
Therefore my original reply is likely not addressing it. apologies.
I do usually try to stay relevant.
You might be surprised, rl.
Funny you say "paper it's written on" since game theory is ironically considered the exact opposite of theory on paper--actually pitting people against each other.
The best active shooter training utilizes game theory in almost all aspects.
BTW, mine was not a criticism of Arselent, but rather further evidence.
Thanks for the link, but I think it's important to keep in mind that social security wasn't intended to bankroll universal 20 year retirements in sunny climates. When social security was first implemented in 1935, life expectancy was 58 for men and 62 for women. And the retirement age was 65. I certainly do have some empathy for the working elderly, but with increased life expectancy I also believe that the retirement age should be adjusted.
Try getting a job as a 55 year old in the IT industry where you've spent 30 years of your career building. They don't want you. Your comment about adjusting the retirement age assumes a level playing field.
Got that right. Adjusting the retirement age is just another ploy for them to configure their algorithms to calculate when the geezers are dying off in sufficient quantity as to not represent a threat at the polls. Any of the construction trades are easily toasted at 65, as are ALL of the essential services I keep hearing about that everyone is so glad to express their gratitude to but shaft in the ribs backstage...that are in that boat. Fuck adjusting the retirement age; we need a new program, if there's any program at all.
I don't know if you read the Harper story I linked, but that is what I took from it. There was no talk of how existing programs have failed them. It instead paints a portrait of their challenges that I think forces us to imagine a different system for retirement.
I did read it. Digression happens. I read the comments in here and sometimes wonder how the fuck people extrapolate from MT to God knows what else. Maybe I did it here.
As a +55 in the IT industry (not an engineer) i certainly understand your concern on this.
Personally i have constantly upgraded my skill set and volunteered to take on new challenges and learn about the latest and greatest far in advance of it becoming widly adapted. That give me the advantage of early adopter over skilled worker, where the young do have advantages..
This approach ha landed me in consulting but i am already planning my next move for 5yrs from now when i hit 60 i will get myself into role that values my charm, good looks and gray hair
The scourge of the best woman actresses. I feel for you, Moxie.
I have found that a few good programmers with lacking social skills have soured the market for what was once viewed as wizardry.
And the reality matches neither: a lot of tech pros in their fifties are great folks to be around yet are just normal roll-up-the-sleeves problem solvers like everyone else.
Sorry about that, but I was looking back to what I learned 30 years ago, about IT, and realized it was more useless than the random bits of minor league stats I remember for players from the 50s and 60s.
There is nothing with less value than outdated tech knowledge.
What an outrageous comment betraying your abject ignorance and arrogance. As if I have learned nothing after year 1 of a 30 year career. GFY.
Sorry, didn't realize you were so prickly and thin-skinned. Bad combination. I've no doubt you've kept up and been treated unfairly. My comment was on the complete worthlessness of dated tech learning. It doesn't even form much of a useful foundation for understanding anything that's being done today. I changed fields, eventually.
Dude, take a chill pill. He was referencing himself, not knocking you.
Interesting, I did not take any of that (about social security and retirement age) from this story. Certainly I didn't read any of these retirees complaining or ever mentioning social security. They seem determined to make the most of a tough situation.
Well, I think it's sad to see elderly people working such jobs. But what's the solution? More social security? More welfare? Maybe. There was a common theme in that article that many lost their nest egg in the '08 crash. If we actually put bankers in jail for financial crimes, and there were plenty in '08,maybe we can prevent this from happening to the next generation. I can't imagine boomers having the same pick yourself up by the boostraps mentality as the silent generation.
I agree, but I think it's instructive that they do not find their situation "sad." No where in this article do I get the sense they are asking for help.
One thing I appreciated most about this article is that the author did not appear to be "sending a message."
I don't know if you've watched the movie "Nomadland" based on a book by this same author, but it's the same. It shows the challenges and victories of those who have lost everything, but purposely avoids the "and that's why we need to do this!" kind of journalism I find so exhausting.
I think we have reached a point where it is hard to simply admit someone is suffering because we feel like that means we must agree to a predetermined prescription. I think empathy has value and people know a con when you constantly tell them stories while shaking a collection plate at them.
I also find the people I want to help most are the people who ask for help least. I real a lot of heartbreak stories and simply shrug. This story touched me because it asked nothing of me. I find myself asking what we could do to make their life better.
Well, according to the author the people he interviewed seem to not mind working. But the representation we received may or may not have been accurate. And even if it was accurate, there is not reason to believe that the handful of subjects he interview are representative of the working elderly as a whole. The stores certainly make me feel very sympathetic, and like you I wish we as a society could do something to help them. But whenever someone starts jerking my emotional strings, I also have a voice in the back of my head asking who they are and what's their goal. There are far more Rachael Maddows and Bill O'Reillies out there than Upton Sinclairs.
If one goes back and reads enough history to know the background that informed FDR to implement most of his policies, and absolutely his policies related to China, they one would know that the mope was NOT some brilliant leader but just another sad ass rich guy making decisions on things he scarcely understood, or didn't understand at all. FDR was no hero for the future; he pretty much guaranteed disaster on multiple fronts, with SS being one of the programs leading the charge.
But they were POPULAR stupid, disastrous decisions, man.
Kurtocracy you have an interesting take that seems to not fit my understanding, but may enrich it.
This is not an area of expertise for me, he said mea culping...but my reading of history of the concept of a social savings account started with the Kaiser.
My European history prof in high school gave ample evidence that it was the way Germany unified from a bunch of small "nation states" into a unified nation for the first time in...well...ever.
So it has me somewhat intrigued that though completely different paths, we both eventually arrive at the SS.
I don't believe in coincidences, but sometimes evidence moves like quicksilver.
Thanks for your post!
It definitely originated during the Weimar Republic. ItтАЩs a cute idea for social stability predicated on conditions that are extremely dynamic. ThereтАЩs a reason China hasnтАЩt donтАЩt something similar yet; they know it can only go bad.
China: I think if the Kaiser had the ability to score people based on the level of enthusiastic support of the Weimer Repub and use it to make every last aspect of their lives miserable, a national social insurance carrot would have seemed stupid.
Of course IMO, making every decision based on keeping a lid on descent doesn't seem like a long-game winning strategy, either.
тАЬIt's not just spite and nihilism, although those are strong justifications. At core it's the unique rage born from humiliation.тАЬ
That was always my understanding, and he was the "Not-Hillary Candidate", which is a pretty good recommendation.
Then he gets in office, forgets which finger he's supposed to be, and starts tweeting like a 12-year-old with his own phone for the first time (yea, I know...). All he had to do was fake being Presidential for few hours a week!! Was that too much to ask? Well, apparently it was. Damn.